View Full Version : For Evangelicals, Supporting Israel Is ‘God’s Foreign Policy’

Thursday, November 16th, 2006, 06:16 PM
For Evangelicals, Supporting Israel Is ‘God’s Foreign Policy’

By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/k/david_d_kirkpatrick/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
Published: November 14, 2006
WASHINGTON, Nov. 13 — As Israeli bombs fell on Lebanon (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/lebanon/index.html?inline=nyt-geo) for a second week last July, the Rev. John Hagee of San Antonio arrived in Washington with 3,500 evangelicals for the first annual conference of his newly founded organization, Christians United For Israel (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/israel/index.html?inline=nyt-geo).

At a dinner addressed by the Israeli ambassador, a handful of Republican senators and the chairman of the Republican Party (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/r/republican_party/index.html?inline=nyt-org), Mr. Hagee read greetings from President Bush and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/o/ehud_olmert/index.html?inline=nyt-per) of Israel and dispatched the crowd with a message for their representatives in Congress. Tell them “to let Israel do their job” of destroying the Lebanese militia, Hezbollah (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/h/hezbollah/index.html?inline=nyt-org), Mr. Hagee said.
He called the conflict “a battle between good and evil” and said support for Israel was “God’s foreign policy.”
The next day he took the same message to the White House.
Many conservative Christians say they believe that the president’s support for Israel fulfills a biblical injunction to protect the Jewish state, which some of them think will play a pivotal role in the second coming. Many on the left, in turn, fear that such theology may influence decisions the administration makes toward Israel and the Middle East.
Administration officials say that the meeting with Mr. Hagee was a courtesy for a political ally and that evangelical theology has no effect on policy making. But the alliance of Israel, its evangelical Christian supporters and President Bush has never been closer or more potent. In the wake of the summer war in southern Lebanon, reports that Hezbollah’s sponsor, Iran, may be pushing for nuclear weapons have galvanized conservative Christian support for Israel into a political force that will be hard to ignore.
For one thing, white evangelicals make up about a quarter of the electorate. Whatever strains may be creeping into the Israeli-American alliance over Iraq, the Palestinians and Iran, a large part of the Republican Party’s base remains committed to a fiercely pro-Israel agenda that seems likely to have an effect on policy choices.
Mr. Hagee says his message for the White House was, “Every time there has been a fight like this over the last 50 years, the State Department would send someone over in a jet to call for a cease-fire. The terrorists would rest, rearm and retaliate.” He added, “Appeasement has never helped the Jewish people.”
This time Elliott Abrams, the White House deputy national security adviser who met with him, essentially agreed, Mr. Hagee said.
Leaving the White House offices, “we felt we were on the right track,” he said.
Now, in tandem with the Israeli government, many evangelical Christians have focused on a new villain, Iran’s president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/a/mahmoud_ahmadinejad/index.html?inline=nyt-per). Evangelical broadcasters and commentators have seized on Mr. Ahmadinejad’s comments questioning the Holocaust and calling for the abolition of the Israeli state. And many evangelicals now talk of the Iranian leader as a “mortal threat” to Israel.
Some evangelical leaders say they are wary of reports that a panel including former Secretary of State James A. Baker III (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/james_a_iii_baker/index.html?inline=nyt-per) might recommend negotiating with Iran about the future of Iraq. “It certainly bothers me,” said Dr. James C. Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family and one of the most influential conservative Christians. “That has the same kind of feel to it as the British negotiating with Germany, Italy and Japan in the run up to World War II.”
At rallies this fall for Christian conservative voters, Dr. Dobson sometimes singled out Mr. Ahmadinejad as a reason to go to the polls, arguing that Democrats (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/d/democratic_party/index.html?inline=nyt-org) could not be trusted to face down such dangers. “Hitler (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/h/adolf_hitler/index.html?inline=nyt-per) told everybody what he was going to do, and Ahmadinejad is saying exactly what he is going to do,” Dr. Dobson explained. “He is talking genocide.”
The same name, with many pronunciations, comes up repeatedly on Christian talk radio shows, said Gary Bauer, a Christian conservative political organizer. “I am not sure there is a foreign leader who has made a bigger splash in American culture since Khrushchev, certainly among committed Christians,” he said.
Mr. Hagee, for his part, said Mr. Ahmadinejad’s comments about Israel and the Holocaust were part of what motivated him to found Christians United For Israel late last year. Since the fight with Hezbollah, Mr. Hagee said, he is doing all he can to keep the pressure on United States (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/unitedstates/index.html?inline=nyt-geo) officials to take a hard line with Iran.
When 5,000 evangelicals gathered last month for a “Night to Honor Israel” at his San Antonio megachurch, for example, Mr. Ahmadinejad was much discussed.
Mr. Hagee compared the Iranian leader with the biblical pharaoh of Egypt. “Pharaoh threatened Israel and he ended up fish food,” Mr. Hagee said, to great applause.
Evangelical Christians who know President Bush, including Marvin Olasky, editor of the magazine World and a former Bush adviser, said Mr. Bush, unlike President Reagan (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/r/ronald_wilson_reagan/index.html?inline=nyt-per), has never shown any interest in prophecies of the second coming.
Such theological details, however, have not kept the Israeli government and Jewish pro-Israel lobbying groups from capitalizing on the powerful support of American evangelicals. Fearing a backlash over Lebanon last July, Israeli officials and their American allies sought public statements of support from American evangelicals. Some groups declined because of risks to missionaries in the Arab world.
Dr. Dobson read a statement on his popular radio program expressing “heartache” at the civilian casualties but comparing Israel’s fight to “the Biblical skirmish between little David and mighty Goliath.” He explained, “There sits little Israel with its five million beleaguered Jews, surrounded by five hundred million Muslims whose leaders are determined to drive it into the sea.”


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Thursday, November 16th, 2006, 06:33 PM
Interesting. I cannot really understand the connection between being a faithful Christian, a religion that tells us that Jews have lost their priviledges and that all peoples are equal and Zionism, a nationalism movement without a serious basis in Judaic faith.

Maybe they should read THIS (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=926) and some of them would change their mind.

Friday, November 17th, 2006, 01:49 AM
I'm afraid to say that the existence of Israel is far too important biblically to evangelical Christians for the phenomenon to go away - ever. Those who support traditional white institutions such as Christianity are simply going to have to get used to the fact that the existence of Israel is fundamental to the prophecy of Christ's return, and the prophecy of Christ's return is fundamental to evangelical Christianity.

Friday, November 17th, 2006, 04:23 PM
More informations which were posted on Stirpes (http://forum.stirpes.net/showthread.php?t=7857)

Evangelicals and Jews Together

It may sound strange, but it's true: Aside from Jews, the strongest American supporters of Israel are Evangelical Christians, many of whom fervently believe God has granted the Jewish people a divine right to rule over historic Palestine. At times like the present, when the Jewish state is largely friendless in a hostile world, the Israelis depends on the backing of this politically potent bloc of American voters to exhort Washington to look favorably upon its interests.

"I think it would be fair to say that Evangelical support for Israel and its legitimate security interests has been paramount to Israel's support in Congress and in many administrations, second only to the Jewish Committee itself," says Republican political consultant Ralph Reed. "The Jewish community has played a strong role in keeping the Democratic party strongly pro-Israel, and Evangelicals have played a similar role among Republicans."

In 1998, Benjamin Netanyahu, who was then prime minister of Israel, was not falsely flattering an Evangelical audience in Washington when he said to them: "We have no greater friends and allies than the people sitting in this room." Indeed, as Columbia University religion scholar Randall Balmer puts it: "Evangelicals have been very charitable, to say the least, toward Israel, because they believe the Jews are the Chosen People of God, even though they failed to recognize Jesus as Messiah. They believe that God's promises to Israel are still good, and that any nation that doesn't line up with Israel is against God."

The story of how this idea came to dominate the thinking of millions of Christians is one of the great tales of American popular religion, one that has more to do with the best-seller list than the writings of the ancient Church fathers.

It begins with a novel theory of the End Times developed by an Englishman, John Nelson Darby, who taught in the 1830s and 1840s that Christians would be taken instantaneously out of the world in the "Rapture" before Christ returns. Darby's views became known as dispensationalism (http://www.dispensationalist.com/)," because he divided God's dealing with mankind in history into three consecutive "dispensations." The first dispensation was the Mosaic Law, through which God offered salvation to the Jews through the observance of His commandments. This age closed with the coming of Christ, who instituted the age of Grace, in which God became preoccupied with Christians. The third and final stage will begin with the return of Jesus, who will establish a literal thousand-year reign upon the earth.

"Dispensationalists see a clear distinction between God's program for Israel and God's program for the church," reads a statement issued by the Dallas Theological Seminary, a leading center of dispensationalist learning. "God is not finished with Israel. The church didn't take Israel's place. They have been set aside temporarily, but in the end times will be brought back to the promised land, cleansed, and given a new heart."

This is not what Christians prior to Darby had believed. The traditional Christian reading of Scripture, dating from the early Church fathers, held that the Jews' rejection of the Messiah abrogated, or at least reduced the significance of, God's covenant with them. As the Rev. Gregory Mathewes-Green, an Antiochian Orthodox priest explains, "The Church's classical understanding is that she herself is the 'Israel of God,' the authentic continuation of the People of God, both ethnic Jews who accepted Jesus as Messiah and Gentile converts who, to use St. Paul's language, were 'grafted on.'"

Dispensationalists, who scorn the traditional teaching as "Replacement Theology," go further. As indicated above, they proclaim that the Bible foretells that the final stage of history before the advent of the Antichrist and the Second Coming of Christ would see an ingathering of diaspora Jews from around the world to the Biblical land of Israel — a development that the 19th-century world could scarcely have foreseen. The beginnings of the Zionist movement in the latter part of that century energized American dispensationalists, who had grown in number thanks to the efforts of an extremely successful evangelist named D. L. Moody, who is chiefly responsible for introducing dispensationalism to America.

But it was the publication in 1909 of the Scofield Reference Bible, which has never gone out of print, that institutionalized what had been a radical new teaching. "The Scofield Bible provided a template for reading the Bible through dispensationalist eyes," says Ballmer. "It became enormously popular, and it really brought dispensationalism to the masses."

Theologian Martin Marty tells NRO that the advent of Pentecostalism and the clash of fundamentalism with modernism in the 1920s caused a fusion of Evangelicals, Pentecostals, and Fundamentalists, who, despite some doctrinal differences, banded together under the dispensationalist banner. As Baptist church historian Timothy Weber notes in an informative Christianity Today article (http://www.aom.org/articles/Israel.htm), "By the Twenties, many fundamentalists considered dispensationalism a nonnegotiable part of Christian orthodoxy. Since then, the system has been nurtured through an elaborate network of schools, publishing houses, mission agencies, radio and television programming, and the like. Channel surfers on cable TV know that dispensationalists are master communicators."

There's no greater example of that than the chart-busting success of Hal Lindsey's The Late Great Planet Earth, the apocalyptic tome that became the top-selling book of the 1970s. Lindsey claimed that the founding of Israel in 1948 was God's sign that the Last Days — the Rapture, the Antichrist, Armageddon — are upon us. Though Lindsey's crystal ball proved unreliable in ensuing decades, the mega-selling Left Behind novels pick up today where Lindsey left off. Dispensationalists ideas have so informed the popular culture that it isn't odd to find Catholic fans of Left Behind shocked to learn that their Church doesn't believe in the Rapture (http://www.catholic.com/library/rapture.asp).

But tens of millions of Protestant Christians (though not all Evangelicals) do, and they tend to back Israel with an uncritical fervor that exceeds that of even some American Jews. The Israeli government tapped this deep, unlikely vein of support in the 1970s, and has assiduously courted these Christians for a generation — especially because many self-described "Christian Zionists" back Israeli settlements in the occupied territories as part of God's prophetic plan. One of the leading Christian Zionist organizations is the International Christian Embassy Jerusalem (http://www.icej.org/), a nondenominational Protestant group (without diplomatic standing) which established a presence in the Israeli capital in 1980.

"We're trying daily to encourage the Israeli people," says Susan Michael, director of ICEJ's Washington office. "The Israelis are very depressed. We want to let them know that they have friends who understand the battle they're in."

Esther Levens is a Jew and a Kansas Republican who founded an ecumenical group called National Unity Coalition for Israel (http://www.israelunitycoalition.com/), a network of over 200 Jewish and Christian congregations who pray for, donate to and lobby on behalf of the Jewish state. She chides American Jews for being "a little short-sighted" in not properly valuing the efforts Christian conservatives make for Israel.

Aside from dissenting from Christian conservatives on many domestic issues, some Jewish leaders look upon organizations like ICEJ warily, fearing these Christians support Israel only as a prelude to evangelizing Jews. (ICEJ explicitly renounces proselytizing Jews, which has earned it criticism from Jews for Jesus and other evangelical groups.)

"If that's the reason they support Israel, that would be of great concern to me," Levens responds. "But I find so many truly dedicated Christians who are involved because of a growing awareness of their Jewish roots, and who feel they owe a real debt of gratitude, historically, to the Jews."

Others in the Jewish community are grateful for Christian political and financial backing, but resent the notion that Israel is worth supporting because it fits into an apocalyptic endgame scenario not shared by Jews — particularly because the dispensationalist script predicts the Jews will convert en masse to Christianity at the end of time.

Palestinian Christians resent it, period. They overwhelmingly belong to either the Eastern Orthodox or Roman Catholic churches, neither of which accepts dispensationalist theology (a small number belong to mainline Protestant confessions, which also reject that creed). Since the 1948 war, the once-sizable Christian population has dwindled to a mere two percent of the three million Palestinians living in the West Bank, Gaza and east Jerusalem. Most of them have emigrated to the West.

Suzan Sahori lives in the Christian village of Beit Sahour, east of Bethlehem. NRO reached her yesterday as her town was literally being taken over by Israeli troops. Speaking frantically over her cell phone, Sahori said, "The situation is very bad. We feel abandoned in this moment. I don't care whether you're Protestant, Latin, Orthodox, whatever you are. We're human beings!"

Palestinian Christians felt abandoned by Christians in America long before the recent wave of violence. They are perhaps more estranged than ever these days, with a recent poll revealing that Americans back Israel in this conflict five-to-one. There aren't enough dispensationalists in the United States to explain why so many American Christians feel a strong obligation to support Israel. The Islamic suicide bombers — whom Sahori supports — surely have a lot to do with it, as does America's feeling about Arab terrorism since September 11 (the image of dancing in the streets of Ramallah when the Twin Towers fell is not easily forgotten). "Now you know how we feel," an Israeli said to an American then.

Along these lines, Fr. Mathewes-Green (http://www.holycrossonline.org/) suggests a possible answer, in the form of a question — a moral query thoughtful Christians should ask themselves: "Does the Christian have a responsibility to a small nation, populated in part by survivors or descendants of a genocide, in a hostile environment? I believe this very important question should be separated from the faulty assumptions of the dispensationalists."

[source (http://www.nationalreview.com/dreher/dreher040502.asp)]

The Evangelical-Jewish Alliance

Yielding to increasing pressure to show the Arab and Islamic worlds (and much of Europe) that he is sensitive to the plight of the Palestinian people, President George W. Bush recently declared his commitment to implement a "road map" to an Israeli-Palestinian peace. Meanwhile, a powerful domestic countermovement capable of undermining the U.S. initiative is well under way. Rising opposition from the conservative Ariel Sharon -- led Israeli government and its powerful U.S. lobby, the America-Israel Political Affairs Committee (AIPAC), was to be expected. But the most numerically significant opposition is coming from the Christian right, an important constituency for the president if he is to be reelected in 2004.

Republican election advisers undoubtedly are watching the Christian right carefully. An early April rally in Washington, D.C., organized by the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews drew key Christian right leaders like Gary Bauer, president of America Values. Bauer told the crowd that "whoever sits in Washington and suggests to the people of Israel that they have to give up more land in exchange for peace, that is an obscenity." Other key players convening the rally included the Christian Coalition and AIPAC. Major speakers such as the Israeli ambassador to the U.S., Daniel Ayalon, and pro-Israel Congressmen Eric Cantor (R., Va.) and Tom Lantos (D., Calif.) encouraged the predominantly evangelical Christian participants to campaign against any plan that would force Israel to abandon its settlements or relinquish land now under its control. Key provisions of the road map call for Israel to make concessions on both issues.

For the president, pushing for the implementation of the road map will require a careful balancing act. Since the September 11 terrorist attacks, he has solidified political support from three important constituencies: neoconservative intellectuals, American Jews (including members of the influential pro-Israel lobby) and fundamentalist Christians, constituencies that find common ground in their vigorous support for Israel.

A decisive moment in the forging of this alliance occurred in April 2002, while the Israeli army was demolishing several cities and refugee camps in the West Bank following the dreadful Passover terrorist bombings. Under increasing international pressure, Bush repeatedly appealed to Sharon to withdraw from the West Bank city of Jenin. The pro-Israel lobby, in coordination with the Christian right, mobilized over 100,000 e-mail messages, calls and visits urging the president to avoid restraining Israel. The tactic worked. The president uttered not another word of criticism or caution, and Sharon continued the offensive. As Christian televangelist Jerry Falwell commented during an October interview on 60 Minutes: "I think now we can count on President Bush to do the right thing for Israel every time.

Falwell spoke for a large number of Christian Zionists in the U.S., Christians who believe that the modern state of Israel is the fulfillment of biblical prophecy and so deserves unconditional political, financial and religious support. Christian Zionists work closely with religious and secular Jewish Zionist organizations and the Israeli government, particularly during periods when the more conservative Likud Party is in control of the Israeli Knesset (parliament). Though Falwell claims to be speaking for over 100 million Americans, the number is actually closer to 25 million.

Mainstream evangelicals number between 75 and 100 million; fundamentalist and dispensationalist evangelicals, whom Falwell represents, between 20 and 25 million.

Christian Zionism grows out of a particular theological system called premillennial dispensationalism, which originated in early 19th-century England. The preaching and writings of a renegade Irish clergyman, John Nelson Darby, and a Scottish evangelist, Edward Irving, emphasized the literal and future fulfillment of such teachings as the Rapture, the rise of the Antichrist, the Battle of Armageddon, and the central role that a revived state of Israel would play during the end days. Darby and Irving argued that portions of the books of Daniel, Ezekiel, Zechariah and Revelation predict when Jesus will return and how the final battle of history will take place.

Darby brought these doctrines to the U.S. during eight missionary journeys. They captured the hearts and minds of those who attended Bible and prophecy conferences in the years after the Civil War. Darby’s teachings were featured in the sermons of some of the great preachers of the 1880-1920 period: the evangelists Dwight L. Moody and Billy Sunday; major Presbyterian preachers such as James Brooks; Philadelphia radio preacher Harry B. Ironsides; and Cyrus I. Scofield.

Scofield applied Darby’s eschatology to his version of the scriptures and provided an outline of premillennial dispensationalist notations on the text. The Scofield Bible (1909) gave dispensationalist teachings much of their prominence and popularity. It became the Bible version used by most evangelical and fundamentalist Christians for the next 60 years.

Christian Zionists insist that all of historic Palestine -- including all the land west of the Jordan which was occupied by Israel after the 1967 war -- must be under the control of the Jewish people, for they see that as one of the necessary stages prior to the second coming of Jesus. Among their other basis tenets:

• God’s covenant with Israel is eternal, exclusive and will not be abrogated, according to Genesis 12:1-7; 15:4-7; 17:1-8; Leviticus 26:44-45; Deuteronomy 7:7-8.

• The Bible speaks of two distinct and parallel covenants, one between God and Israel, one between God and the church. The latter covenant is superseded by the covenant with Israel. The church is a "mere parenthesis" in God’s plan and as such it will be removed from history during an event called the Rapture (1 Thess. 4:13-17; 5:1-11). At that point, Israel, the nation, will be restored as the primary instrument of God on earth.

• Genesis 12:3 ("I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you") should be interpreted literally -- which leads to maximum political, economic, moral and spiritual support for the modern state of Israel and for all the Jewish people.

• Apocalyptic texts like the Book of Daniel, Zechariah 9-12, Ezekiel 37-8, I Thessalonians 4-5 and the Book of Revelation refer to literal and future events.

• The establishment of the state of Israel, the rebuilding of the Third Temple, the rise of the Antichrist and the buildup of armies poised to attack Israel are among the signs leading to the final eschatological battle and Jesus’ return for his thousand-year reign. The movement looks for the escalating power of satanic forces aligned with the antichrist that will do battle with Israel and its allies as the end draws near.
Judgment will befall nations and individuals according to how they "bless Israel."

Christian Zionism has significant support within Protestant fundamentalism, including much of the Southern Baptist Convention and the charismatic, Pentecostal and independent churches. The movement can also be found in the evangelical wings of the mainline Protestant churches (Presbyterian, United Methodist and Lutheran) and to a lesser degree in Roman Catholicism. Its reach is broad, since premillennialist dispensationalist themes are advanced through Christian television, radio and publishing. The National Religious Broadcasters organization, which controls almost 90 percent of religious radio and television in the U.S., is dominated by a Christian Zionist orientation.

The alliance of Christian Zionists and the pro-Israel lobby solidified during the Reagan administration, although it declined somewhat during the first Bush administration and the Clinton years. Clinton’s Israeli ties were with the secular Labor Party, led by Yitzhak Rabin and Shimon Peres, not with the conservative Likud Party. Through this alliance Clinton embraced the Oslo peace accords, which were opposed by Likud and the Christian Zionists because the accords called for reductions, however modest, in the expansion of Jewish settlements and asked that Israel withdraw from a significant portion of the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip.

Shortly after Rabin’s assassination, Likud’s Benyamin Netanyahu became prime minister. Long a favorite of Christian Zionists, he convened the Israel Christian Advocacy Council, inviting 17 U.S. Christian fundamentalists to Israel for a tour of the Holy Land and a conference that produced a statement that resembled the Likud platform with biblical footnotes. The declaration included a blanket rejection of any outside pressure on Israel to abandon the settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem, the Gaza Strip and the Golan Heights. The Christian group supported a united Jerusalem under Israeli sovereignty rather that a Jerusalem shared by Palestinians and Israelis.

After they returned to the U.S., members of the Israel Christian Advocacy Council launched a campaign, "Christians Call for a United Jerusalem," with full-page advertisements in major newspapers and Christian journals. The advertisement carried several of the familiar Christian Zionist and Likud Zionist themes, including the claim that "Jerusalem has been the spiritual and political capital of only the Jewish people for 3,000 years." Citing Genesis 12:17, Leviticus 26:44-45 and Deuteronomy 7:7-8, the ad stated that "Israel’s biblical claim to the land" was "an eternal covenant from God.’ Among the signers were Pat Robertson of CBN; Ralph Reed, the director of the Christian Coalition; Jerry Falwell; Brandt Gustafson, president of the National Religious Broadcasters’ Don Argue, president of the National Association of Evangelicals; and Ed McAteer of the Religious Roundtable, one of the first Christian Zionist organizations in North America.

The ad campaign was a direct response to a campaign by mainline Protestant, Orthodox and Catholic churches, launched in April 1997, for "a shared Jerusalem." The United Jerusalem campaign claimed that the Christian Zionists and fundamentalists spoke for all evangelicals in North America, stating that "the signatories and their organizations reach more than 100 million Christian evangelicals weekly." These inflated numbers were meant to impress members of Congress, the media, and any evangelicals who took a different view.

In the late 1990s donations to Israel and to the Jewish National Fund declined because of the tensions between Orthodox Jews in Israel and Reform and Conservative Jews in the U.S. The loss of funding caused the Likud to turn to Christian Zionists for assistance, an appeal that met with a quick response. Additional support came through a campaign led by the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews, headed by a former Anti-Defamation League employee, the Orthodox rabbi Yechiel Eckstein. In 1997 this campaign claimed that it raised over $5 million from fundamentalist Christians. John Hagee’s Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, Texas, presented Eckstein with more than $1 million -- funds for resettling Jews from the Soviet Union in the West Bank and Jerusalem.

The Christian fundamentalist and Christian Zionist worldview converges with the agenda of neoconservatives like William Kristol, editor of the Weekly Standard; syndicated journalists William Safire and Charles Krauthammer; and the chief advisers in the Bush White House -- Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith and Elliott Abrams, Many of these figures used to work with pro-Israel think tanks such as AIPAC; MEMBI (Middle East Media Research Institute); JINSA (Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs); and the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. Perle narrowly escaped conviction for trading intelligence secrets with Israel in the late 1970s, and Abrams was convicted (and pardoned by Reagan) in the Iran-Israel-contra weapons and financial scandal.

The neo-conservatives’ quest for U.S. domination of the oil fields in the Middle East and of military and economic geopolitics in that region aligns neatly with the views of Harvard scholar Samuel P. Huntington, whose "clash of civilizations" theory divides the world into the West vs. the Rest. In the Huntington scenario, Islam is the force most hostile to U.S. interests -- a point of view that fits well with the "evil empire" rhetoric and the Antichrist scenarios found among the Christian Zionists. The "clash of civilizations" rhetoric often takes on theological overtones, as it did in the president’s 2002 and 2003 State of the Union addresses.

The advisers around Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and Vice President Dick Cheney are driving their views home. Anatol Lieven, writing recently in the London Review of Books, points to a 1996 policy paper "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm," by Perle and Douglas Feith, which advised Netanyahu to abandon the Oslo peace process and return to military repression of the Palestinians. The policy statement was developed in an Israeli think tank, the Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies. The document seems to have played a large part in shaping the Bush administration’s strategy on Iraq, and perhaps for redrawing Middle East borders according to the Likud vision.

Rumsfeld’s support of Israel’s illegal settlements, which he views as Israel’s "right" for having conquered the Palestinian territories, indicates that he agrees with Perle and Feith. Few have mentioned that Rumsfeld’s position violates existing U.S. policy, let alone international law and the international consensus on the issue. Republican Dick Armey, former House majority leader, agrees, and even advocates ethnic cleansing ("transfer") in Palestine.

Israel’s leading voice for "transfer," Tourism Minister Benny Elon, recently met with several members of the House and Senate, including Armey and Lindsey Graham (R., S.C.) to advocate transferring Palestinians to Jordan. While Elon’s views are linked with the radical fringe in Israel, his "transfer" concept is gaining support among Christian Zionist legislators and key spokesmen of the Christian right. Some Israeli analysts speculate that the purpose of Elon’s visit was to urge Israel’s "friends" in the Christian right and on Capitol Hill to tell the president not to pressure Israel to surrender land and settlements to a future Palestinian state. Newsweek’s June 2 edition reported that in mid-May, just prior to Elon’s visit, several Israeli officials contacted Bauer to rally the Christian right in opposition to the "road map.

The dominance of Christian right, Christian Zionist and Likud policies in the Bush administration reflects political realities, In 1987 polls indicated that the Christian right represented 26 percent of the total membership of the Republican Party. By 1999 that number had increased to 33 percent and was rising. The influence of pro-Israel groups and Christian Zionists in such vital swing states as Texas, California and all-important Florida may well have been the deciding factor for Bush in the 2000 election. Bush is very aware that he owes a political debt to this voting bloc.

The May 2002 "Washington Rally for Israel," which drew, according to some accounts, well over 100,000 people to the Washington Mall, illustrates the influence of these forces. An impressive lineup of U.S. politicians was joined by leading voices from the Christian right, Likud and mainstream American Jewish organizations. The list included Netanyahu; Wolfowitz; Holocaust writer Elie Wiesel; New York Governor George Patald; former New York Mayor Rudolf Guliani; U.S. Senators Arlen Specter (H., Pa.) and Barbara Mikulski (D., Md.), and leading members of the House such as Armey (R., Tex.) and Richard Gephardt (D., Mo.).

However, the loudest cheers at the rally went not to these political leaders but to a voice relatively unknown to the secular media, Christian radio personality Janet Parshall, host of the nationally syndicated Janet Parshall’s America. Parshall drew a deafening ovation when she proclaimed: "I stand before you today representing the National Religious Broadcasters. . . . We represent millions of Christian broadcasters in this country. We stand with you now and forever. . . . I am here to tell you today, we Christians and Jews together will not labor any less in our support for Israel. We will never limp, we will never wimp, we will never vacillate in our support of Israel."

The cozy partnership contains many contradictions, not the least of which is that within the Christian premillennial dispensationalist scenario, Jews ultimately have two options: either convert to Christianity or be incinerated at Armageddon. Israeli author Gershon Gorenberg (The End of Days)notes that dispensationalism is essentially a four-act play, "where we as Jews disappear in the fourth act, just prior to the return of Jesus." Further, anti-Semitism is often just beneath the surface among Christian Zionists and fundamentalists. Just two years ago Jerry Falwell claimed that "God told him" that the Antichrist is a Jew living in Romania -- a statement for which he later profusely apologized. And the Christian right’s agenda includes the creation of a "Christian America."

Despite these contradictions, not only AIPAC but mainstream Jewish organizations such as the Council of Presidents of Major Jewish Organizations and the Anti-Defamation League/BnaiBrith have allied themselves with Christian Zionist organizations such as the Christian Coalition, Religious Round-table and the 700 Club. Surprisingly, many progressive Reform Rabbis have expressed public support for the Christian Zionists and the Christian right, knowing full well that the Christian right’s theological and political agendas are contrary to the Reform Jewish community’s longstanding progressive stance on civil liberties and human rights.

I once asked Israel’s director of religious communities if he was aware of the implications of the alliance with fundamentalist Christians, particularly in light of their history of anti-Semitism, their dedication to the Christianizing of America, and the "convert or fry" Armageddon scenarios. His response was: "Of course we know all this, but we will take support wherever we can get it, and their numbers are significant. We do keep them on a short leash, however." At the April rally Ambassador Ayalon told the crowd, "We share the same belief in God and we share the same destiny"-- that appears to be crafted along the of the Likud Party platform.

The inevitable clash between Likud/Christian/ Zionist ideology and the promise of the road map inevitably will come to the fore as the 2004 presidential election campaign heats up. Mitri Raheb, the Palestinian pastor of Bethlehem’s Christmas Lutheran Church, fears that if the pro-Israel voices prevail, the "road map" will turn into a "road trap" for Palestinians and for those Israelis committed to a two-state solution.

Muslims and other non-Jewish religious minorities in the U.S. have no standing with the Christian right; indeed, Christian Zionists are openly hostile toward Islam. Though an evangelical-Islamic dialogue has begun, it is too new to begin to counter the voices of outspoken Christian right leaders such as Franklin Graham, Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, who have consistently portrayed Islam as an evil force that will align itself with the Antichrist to attack Israel, leading to the Battle of Armageddon.

This doctrine fits well with the Bush "axis of evil" concept, which can readily be applied to any nation in which Muslims are the majority. Now that Afghanistan and Iraq are occupied by the U.S., neoconservatives, Israeli politicians and the Christian right seem to be targeting Iran, Syria and possibly Saudi Arabia. In a revealing remark in London in December 2002, Sharon noted that once the U.S. and its allies dispose of Saddam Hussein and Iraq, Iran will be next on the list. Will such views dominate U.S. foreign policy? Powell’s speech to the AIPAC convention on March 30 included a warning to Iran and Syria -- an indication Sharon’s vision is alive in U.S. policy.

The Christian Zionist distortions of historic evangelical and orthodox theology must be debated and confronted primarily by evangelicals but also by mainline Protestants, whose churches sometimes absorb these doctrines. Christian Zionist and dispensationalist thinking appears to be growing in influence, especially in the Bible Belt and pockets of the West Coast and rural America. As it spreads it will dominate more and more of our culture and thus exert a growing influence on politics. Christian and Jewish theologians need to attend to the deep inroads made by millennial theology and its political alliances.

The biblical hermeneutic of Christian Zionism distorts biblical texts by reading them out of their canonical and historical context, making them seem more like such fictional works as the "Left Behind" series than the whole Word of God. The Christian Zionist worldview elevates Israel to a political entity not accountable for keeping Torah or obeying the norms of international law. In its justification of Israel’s illegal program of land confiscation, demolition of homes, targeted assassinations and continued transfer of Palestinians from their homeland, the Christian right and revisionist Zionist ideology encourage the breaking of the Ten Commandments and the Levitical codes. Christian Zionists have traded the mantle of the biblical prophets for an idolatry of militarism and the nation state.

An additional task for Christians is to make a closer examination of ecclesiology. Christian Zionism is grounded in a reductionist ecclesiology in which the state is elevated above the church. Such a view is inconsistent with the New Testament and traditional Christian theology. Darby’s doctrine that the church is a "mere parenthesis" enables Christians to minimize the role of the global church and to ignore or openly despise Palestinian Christians.

If present trends continue, the Palestinian Christian community, which claims a historic continuity dating back to the first disciples, will disappear from the Holy Land, leaving behind nothing but museums or shells of churches. Palestinian Christians are fleeing their homeland not because of Islamic fundamentalism, as many Israelis and Christian Zionists would have us believe, but because their lives, livelihood, families and future are doomed by the continued Israeli occupation. In providing political and economic support for Israeli militancy against Palestinian Christians and Muslims, Christian Zionists are aiding the collapse of Christianity in the Holy Land.

[source (http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=2717)]

Friday, November 17th, 2006, 09:20 PM
Thank to God I am not evagelist but catholic. And I can have a more imparcial opinion about Israel.

Veritas Æquitas
Saturday, November 18th, 2006, 05:21 AM
The true Israel according to scripture is the Church. Modern Israel is a usurpation of God's word, true to Jewish character. Those suffering under the present Judeo-Christian tradition and those who willfully serve the Jewish cause are forcefully ignorant of this truth.

Papa Koos
Saturday, February 3rd, 2007, 05:45 AM
The true Israel according to scripture is the Church. Modern Israel is a usurpation of God's word, true to Jewish character. Those suffering under the present Judeo-Christian tradition and those who willfully serve the Jewish cause are forcefully ignorant of this truth.

Precisely Brathair Suilean Dubh!
Although the Dispensationist are awash in shoddy theology and are pleased to be idiot waterboys for the Talmudic Judaics, many Evangelicals are beginning to wake up. Israel's barbarous attack against Lebanon last summer (with the shameful backing of the jU.S.A.) has made continous support for "the chosen people" untenable.

Tuesday, January 1st, 2019, 08:00 PM
I'm afraid to say that the existence of Israel is far too important Biblically to evangelical Christians for the phenomenon to go away - ever. Those who support traditional white institutions such as Christianity are simply going to have to get used to the fact that the existence of Israel is fundamental to the prophecy of Christ's return, and the prophecy of Christ's return is fundamental to evangelical Christianity.

My new Years resolution: Leave "SKADI".
My Christian beliefs can no longer co-exist with a predominately belief in all facets of Heathenry on this site. One must make choices when it comes to your soul.
Happy New Year everybody................
Good bye.

Gareth Lee Hunter
Tuesday, January 1st, 2019, 08:26 PM
My new Years resolution: Leave "SKADI".
My Christian beliefs can no longer co-exist with a predominately belief in all facets of Heathenry on this site. One must make choices when it comes to your soul.
Happy New Year everybody................
Good bye.

I'm truly sorry you feel this way, Schwab. :(

But I'm not going to let the heathens run me off. :D

Tuesday, January 1st, 2019, 09:51 PM
I'm truly sorry you feel this way, Schwab. :(

But I'm not going to let the heathens run me off. :D
Same here.

Wednesday, January 2nd, 2019, 12:34 PM
Bloody Hel, schwab, that quoted post from Weiler was made over 12 years ago and this user hasn't been on the forum since 2012!!! :-O

Wednesday, January 2nd, 2019, 12:44 PM
Not, going to respond to the goodbye post other than I don't hate Christians as long as they are pro-Germanic.

I live in the so called bible belt of the US, I will say there are more than a few Christen churches around here that seem to worship jews and the state of Israel than they do their bibles and their Jesus.

Gareth Lee Hunter
Wednesday, January 2nd, 2019, 01:20 PM
Not, going to respond to the goodbye post other than I don't hate Christians as long as they are pro-Germanic.

And I don't have anything against Pagans except when some of them here insist on criticizing me for being a Christian. I refuse to allow others to define who I am.

I live in the so called bible belt of the US, I will say there are more than a few Christen churches around here that seem to worship jews and the state of Israel than they do their bibles and their Jesus.

Yes. This is why I am a nondenominational Christian, because there is no such thing as a socially "progressive" or "Judeo/Christian".

Most of what passes for established religion these days is nothing more than another deceitful big business venture.

Wednesday, January 2nd, 2019, 09:41 PM
Bloody Hel, schwab, that quoted post from Weiler was made over 12 years ago and this user hasn't been on the forum since 2012!!! :-O
He's not alone though. This little game of "lets drive off the Christian" has been played for some time.

Wuotans Krieger
Wednesday, January 2nd, 2019, 10:31 PM
He's not alone though. This little game of "lets drive off the Christian" has been played for some time.

Nobody drove him away. It is a Germanic preservation forum. Heathenism is a vital aspect of authentic Germanic culture as it goes to the very mind and soul of the Teuton.

Wednesday, January 2nd, 2019, 10:41 PM
Nobody drove him away. It is a Germanic preservation forum. Heathenism is a vital aspect of authentic Germanic culture as it goes to the very mind and soul of the Teuton.

Skadi guidelines do not specify members must subscribe to a particular faith. Don't constantly berate us Christian members because you no longer believe Jesus is our Savior.

I hold that true ethnic/racialist preservationists are above such devisive slander. ;)

Wuotans Krieger
Wednesday, January 2nd, 2019, 10:51 PM
Skadi guidelines do not specify members must subscribe to a particular faith. Don't constantly berate us Christian members because you no longer believe Jesus is our Savior.I hold that true ethnic/racialist preservationists are above such devisive slander. ;)

Are you unable to engage in discussion and debate without resorting to foul, uncouth, unladylike, unfeminine and unchristian vulgarity? I never said that one had to be a heathen to post here but as Germanic heathenism is the authentic and original religion of the GERMANIC peoples then Christians should respect that. In Schwab's case he continually criticised heathenism and provoked heathen posters. Nobody pushed him out and nobody has said he shouldn't post here! It does help to get one's facts right before you hit the 'post quick reply' button! I find it illuminating that you describe my religion and that of others on here as belief in 'hobgoblins', thus defaming our beliefs.

Wednesday, January 2nd, 2019, 11:08 PM
Skadi guidelines do not specify members must subscribe to a particular faith. If you want to believe in "hobgoblins", as my hubby stated, that's your fuckin' business. But don't constantly berate us Christian members because you no longer believe Jesus is our Savior.

I hold that true ethnic/racialist preservationists are above such devisive slander. ;)

This place crawls with Christian hating trolls. Most of the forums are infested with them.
They play this stupid little game of "lets drive off the Christian" and wonder why their forums
become ghost towns. They do the same to the white nationalist movement and wonder why
we don't get anywhere.

Wednesday, January 2nd, 2019, 11:38 PM
Astragoth, you've only been a member since last summer. Here are two important things to keep in mind:

1) On this forum we don't allow our ancestral religion to be insulted - we are all about our ancestors.
2) I don't recall a Christian member ever being chased off this forum by the followers of our ancestral religion - there have been serious clashes to be sure - but no Christian was ever chased off the forum by "a gang of Heathens" or somesuch. Those Christians who did end up leaving the forum were very confrontational and rude themselves - them subsequently leaving was their own choice.

Thread closed. Everything that happened in this old thread today or yesterday is of no relevance to the topic at hand and we don't need this drama here.

Wednesday, January 2nd, 2019, 11:46 PM
Alright Kids, There is no plot to drive away Christians here! In fact last time I checked Thorburn is Christian as well as Chlodovech and both are central figures in running this forum.

Heathens are generally anti-Christian in their world views, but that does not mean we hate or want to drive Christians away.