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Agrippa
Saturday, February 7th, 2004, 09:02 PM
1. G. Friese about the eastbaltic race in a study 1936 (ostbaltische, hell-ostische Rasse) = translated:

This race is strongest in the North East of Europe, in Russia. But you can find this race as well from Poland to the Eastern regions of Germany, from the Carpathians to lower Austria, from there to Slovenia, the Serbs and the Albanians.
Body height and build are essentially the same as that of the Alpine (ostisch) race. The ostbaltic human is of stout build, stumpy and short legged.
The head is in relation to the lengths very broad, so you can speak about roundheadedness (brachycephaly).
The face is coarse. The nose is often upwards tilted.
The distance between the eyes is big.

2) Next is from Vogel, Christian: Menschliche Stammesgeschichte - Populationsdifferenzierung. Biologie in Stichworten, V Humanbiologie. Kiel 1974, S. 136.
Osteuropaeischer oder "slawischer" Typus (Osteuropide) = translated.

Stature: middle height, of stout build, relative short legs.
Head and face: in relation to the Nordid type head shorter (brachycephal), broader and somewhat more angular, broadboned face, zygomas protrusive, very protrusive on the sides, shallow root of the nose, not so strong more concave nose with broad and round tip, swelling nostrils.
Chin low and not very prominent, broad mouth, often wide eye distance with a little bit oblique lids.
Hairs: Thin, predominant brown, in the North ashblond.
Skin: fair, light pigmented.
Eyes: brown, in the North light grey too.

Diffusion same as G. Friese said.

Agrippa
Tuesday, February 17th, 2004, 08:29 PM
Here the pictures of Osteuropids for a better understanding from the side of Dienekes.
I will probably bring further pictures to show the facial characteristics of this type.

Agrippa
Tuesday, February 17th, 2004, 08:53 PM
Some examples of partially mixed Osteuropids in my opinion:

with Nordid admixture:
http://forum.ixbt.com/usersphoto/00066359.jpg

with slight Nordid admixture:
http://forum.ixbt.com/usersphoto/00043153.jpg

with unknown admixture:
http://forum.ixbt.com/usersphoto/00101875.jpg

with Nordid admixture:
http://forum.ixbt.com/usersphoto/00078368.jpg

with slight Mediterranid admixture:
http://forum.ixbt.com/usersphoto/00021743.jpg

Osteuropid-Nordid:
http://forum.ixbt.com/usersphoto/00020625.jpg

with slight Nordid admixture:
http://forum.ixbt.com/usersphoto/00013236.jpg

pure:
http://forum.ixbt.com/usersphoto/00087491.jpg

with slight Nordid admixture:
http://forum.ixbt.com/usersphoto/00038645.jpg

unknown admixture:
http://forum.ixbt.com/usersphoto/00030739.jpg

almost pure:
http://forum.ixbt.com/usersphoto/00008511.jpg

slight admixture:
http://forum.ixbt.com/usersphoto/00083091.jpg

almost pure:
http://forum.ixbt.com/usersphoto/00135190.jpg

almost pure:
http://forum.ixbt.com/usersphoto/00013221.jpg

unknown admixture:
http://forum.ixbt.com/usersphoto/00024763.jpg

Agrippa
Friday, February 20th, 2004, 01:37 AM
Two extreme variants of the Osteuropid type:
http://www.skadi.us/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3330
http://www.skadi.us/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3331

norda
Friday, February 20th, 2004, 08:59 AM
Agrippa please, when you quote my previous post or pictures read them at least.
First of all using Osteropid term as synonymous Slavic is pure propaganda. Both types are rare in old Slavic settlements.
We can equally use Germanic synonym.

East Baltics(Gunther)=Subnordic(Deniker)-should be Fenonordic exactly
are most popular where Finnish substrate is strong- from E Pomerania (f. E Prussia- emigrated) Lithuania, Latvia Estonia, Finland and also in Sweden. It can appear almost everywhere where Nordic type is.
Pure type is concentrated on coastal territories (200-300 km) and is weaker inland.

These two are really excellent examples of extreme Lapponoid admixture:
http://www.skadi.us/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3330
http://www.skadi.us/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3331
http://www.skadi.us/forum/showpost.php?p=44689&postcount=3
Swedish example also
http://www.skadi.us/forum/showpost.php?p=83142&postcount=1
just look at eyes and nose, type is really popular in Sweden


Osteuropid (Deniker) is totally different race(then EB) = Caucasoid (mainly Nordic) mixed with PaleoAsiatic/ Ainu-Denikers (popular Uralic) also is only in old Finnish territories but rather in Finland, NE Russia, and sometimes reach Lithuania Belarus, Ukraine (not Finnish but Steppe influences).
Some of Agrippa Paleoasiatic adm. examples are ok
http://forum.ixbt.com/usersphoto/00020625.jpg
http://forum.ixbt.com/usersphoto/00013236.jpg
http://forum.ixbt.com/usersphoto/00066359.jpg
http://forum.ixbt.com/usersphoto/00087491.jpg
here you can see the distribution of PaleoAsiatic type (points)
http://www.skadi.us/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7368

Its easy to recognize both mixed types just by shape of nose and shape of eyes. East Baltic has small and upward nose. While Paleoasiatic (Ainu) admixtures nose is larger and wide.

The main problem is that there are territories (Finland, Estonia, N Russia) where both types are present so it sometimes leads to confusions like Agrippa’s.

Agrippa
Friday, February 20th, 2004, 03:01 PM
http://www.skadi.us/forum/showpost.php?p=83142&postcount=1

She is not of the type you mean. There are Scandinavians of that type, but she is a bad example.

And you are probably right in SOME of the individuals I posted, because Palaeoasiatic admixture can lead to similar results in certain individuals.

But in general this type, although he is often called "Slavic" is not really representative for all or even the majority of Slavs, I know that and never said something else.

Still he is one of the major components and many authors took certain subtypes which almost do not differ together as Osteuropid without looking in detail too much.

But I probably will read some more things about the Osteuropid variants if possible in the next time.
Of course to say for all the types I posted is Palaeoasiatic ("Ainu") admixture should be responsible would mean, what some even considered a possibility that this element was an important in the constitution of the Osteuropid type or certain variants of it.

Of course it would be nice if you can quote some works or copy/link them if possible, I'm really interested.

Agrippa
Sunday, March 27th, 2005, 02:04 AM
Furthermore Osteuropid is a rather wide term and I can quote what German anthropologists say about the variation:
(translation)
"The Wepsen in the Balticum have a low height, have light hair and a concave noses with high roots, whereas the Karelians are dark pigmented. The Finns in the South West of the land have a mesocephalic head and are lighter than Norwegians or and Swedes; the nose root is to 40 percent high, 37 percent of the noses are concave, and on the upper eye lid is in the most cases a small fold. Letts and Ests have few pigment too, but brachycephalic individuals can be seen more often.
The Lithuanians are close to the Letts, but have an even rounder skull and darker pigmentation. All the mentioned tribes and nations experienced the "Baltisation": Even in the Proto-Neolithikum the Balticum was inhabited by narrow faced long skulls, but even in the Neolithicum round skulls showed up which had similarities to Asiatic forms with a flattened facial bone structure. From this time on begins the brachycephalisation in this areas, the Baltisation.
Some people suggest that the neolithic brachycephalic form, the Danic Borreby-typus influenced the Baltic people.
The West Baltic people differ from the Eastern Balts with their higher stature.

The appearance of the Osteuropids in the Russian areas is basically defined by 3 types:
A side form of the North Western Osteuropids is the Waldai-type. He can be distinguished as a moderately brachycephalic type from the mesocephalic Riasaner type. Both types, which are named as the "Eastern European type" by Bunak, have a weaker face profile in the direction of the Mongolids with a deeper nose root.
Whereas in White Russia lives a higher statured, taller human type with a smaller head length and higher head breadth, with a low, broad face and less light eyes and hair.

Everything is from Georg Glowatzki, Die Rassen der Menschheit - Entstehung und Ausbreitung