View Full Version : Are there small Atlanto-Meds?

Monday, October 30th, 2006, 08:11 PM
We often classify individuals here as Atlanto-Med without knowing their size (just by facial pictures).

Look at the following individuals in The Races Of Europe:

Plate 22, figures 4 and 2.
Plate 25, figures 2 and 4.

Coon calls them all Mediterranean rather than Atlanto-Mediterranean. Does Coon distinguish Atlanto-Med from Med with metrics rather than morphology?

Facially, I likely would have classified them as Atlanto-Med. Their facial features are coarser or as coarse as several of Coon's Atlanto-Meds such as plate 23 figures 1 and 2.

I think that there can be small Atlanto-Meds. If we imagine an ancient Atlanto-Med population, it surely included small individuals who were otherwise more Atlanto-Med than Med.

How would you classify these four individuals?

Monday, October 30th, 2006, 09:12 PM
Those "Small Mediterraneans" show similar facial characteristics. The Atlanto Mediterranid variant probably has a minority who is short in stature.

Monday, October 30th, 2006, 09:52 PM
For those who dont have the book, here are pictures linked form snpa.nordish.net

Atlanto Mediteranean:


Small Mediterranean:

Atlanto Mediterranean:

Small Mediterranean:

Atlanto Mediterranean:

Classify the four which he does not call Atlanto Mediterranean. I placed the Atlanto Mediterraneans next to the Mediterraneans which I think they facially resemble.

Friday, November 3rd, 2006, 01:25 AM
Coon's Atlanto-Mediterranean is based, if I remember rightly, on the Megalithic people of Britain, who are likely to have been partly of an earlier, small Mediterranean type. Coon himself mentions that the Megalithic people of Kent may have more of this blood than the rest.

From my observation of tall, dark long-headed people, they seem to be similar, yet slightly different, from Coon's Atlanto-Mediterranean.

Friday, November 3rd, 2006, 02:00 AM
Platypus made on Biodiversity (http://www.biodiversityforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1037) composite faces, morphs of the various gracile and tall Mediterranean variants from Coon and Angel.

here the Average Atlanto Mediterranean from Coon Troe.

morph of 9 individuals:
(Ayreshire SCOT,Lancashire ENG,Touluse FRA, Basque ESP,Genoa ITA, Vigo ESP, Donegal EIRE, Azer PORT, Beira Alta PORT.)

added 2 Greek Atlanto Mediterranean 'Megalithics' from J Lawrence Angel (Athenian and Cephaleian GRE)

compare with Gracile Mediterranean (left):
http://i5.tinypic.com/29o3ek8.jpg http://i3.tinypic.com/2udzss6.jpg
The two are relatively close and similar but with some noticeable differences:

Atlanto Mediterranean is:
longer narrow/nosed (lower N.I), which is interesting since the Gracile med is still rather leptorrhine.
The jaw and the chin are longer/more robust.
The face is Higher
The head is relatively lower and longer and broader than the Gracile Mediterranean.
face and forehead appear broader, the muscles of the neck are stronger. Forehead is more sloping in the Atlanto Mediterranean, more 'vertical' in the Gracile Mediterranean.

On this basis and on the metrical data from Coon's tables

Gracile Mediterranean (excluding the more 'infantile' euryprosopic types such as The Spanish Cuban, Danubians etc):

Cephalic Index= Dolicocephalic
Face Index = Hyper Leptoprosopic
Upper Face Index= Mesene
Nose Index= Leptorrhine

average height: 165,4 (data from 5 individuals, 1939)

Atlanto Mediterranean (Excluding Sicilian, with the addition of Portuguese and Lancashire Mediterraneans):

Cephalic Index= Dolicocephalic
Face Index= Leptoprosopic
Upper Face Index= Mesene
Nose Index= Equal Hyper Leptorrhine and Leptorrhine

average height: 171,4 (data from 9 individuals 1939)

If we roughly add a border of 4 to 10 cm for today (secular accretion )
Gracile Meds should normally range between 169 to 175 cm,
Atlanto Meds from 176 to 181 cm. the tallest atlanto Mediterranean on Coon's plates in the Portuguese with 178cm. applying the fomula to him then the average height could have grown from 182 to 188 cm in todays standards.

My comment after looking at that:
In fact gracile and Atlantomediterranid looks practically the same with the main difference being the one is more hypoplastic (rather small Asthenic), the other hyperplastic (sinewy Leptosomic).

I might add now that it should be clear why the Atlantomediterranid is closer to the Nordoid spectrum in comparison to the Gracilmediterranid, morphologically and metrically the A-M has most Nordid traits beside depigmentation and its mainly about details which determine the fluent border (~Atlantid) beside that.