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Agrippa
Saturday, October 28th, 2006, 07:03 PM
Post examples of pred. Dinarid living (or just recently died) individuals

Likeable Austrian-German TV-cook Johann Lafer:
http://www.ard-fernsehlotterie.de/sendung20050317/Johann-Lafer_150.jpghttp://www.dw-world.de/image/0,,1366113_1,00.jpg

http://www.vinumshop.de/data/newsbilder/rendezvino06/original/4)%20Johann%20Lafer%20-%20Schauk%FCche.jpghttp://www.hannelore-kohl-stiftung.de/img/db/Marijke_Lafer.jpg_400_268_60.jpg

http://www2.service.t-online.de/dyn/c/83/66/50/8366500,tid=d.jpghttp://www.zdf.de/ZDFde/img/16/0,1886,2441232,00.jpg

Less likeable Guenther Oettinger:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Guenther-oetttinger.jpg
http://www.ftd.de/asset/Image/2005/04/21/80oetinger.jpg
http://www.zdf.de/ZDFde/img/113/0,1886,2666993,00.jpg

Pred. Dinarid (with Atlantid/Mediterranid) Lisa Gadenstätter:
http://kundendienst.orf.at/orfstars/gadenstaetter.jpg

Here on the right with Matthias Euba, being pred. Dinarid too:
http://kundendienst.orf.at/sendungsinfos/sendungsprofile/orf1/newsflash_aktuell10.jpg

Pred. Dinarid Dorian Steidl:
http://kundendienst.orf.at/orfstars/steidl.jpghttp://www.velden.at/include_page/sportwagen/Sportwagen08.JPG

Glynd Eastŵd
Saturday, October 28th, 2006, 11:02 PM
I couldn't find any still living examples, but an example from Guenther which I think shows the Dinarid profile quite well (flat occiput, high and slightly sloping forehead, convex nose):

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/6817/dinarideb3.gif


Post examples of pred. Dinarid living (or just recently died) individuals

Likeable Austrian-German TV-cook Johann Lafer:
http://www.ard-fernsehlotterie.de/sendung20050317/Johann-Lafer_150.jpghttp://www.dw-world.de/image/0,,1366113_1,00.jpg

I think this guy goes more in an Alpinid direction primarily, with some Dinarid admixture secondary, instead of vice-versa. Might explain his affinity for food. ;) :P

Pro-Alpine
Saturday, October 28th, 2006, 11:07 PM
Random Albanian soldier.

http://www.nato.int/sfor/nations/various/albania/albanian.jpg

Agrippa
Saturday, October 28th, 2006, 11:41 PM
I couldn't find any still living examples, but an example from Guenther which I think shows the Dinarid profile quite well (flat occiput, high and slightly sloping forehead, convex nose):

Actually I scanned it from Schwidetzky and its an extreme Dinarid - age type must be considered too since some Dinarid traits becoming even more pronounced in age, thats particularly true for Dinarid Leptosomes.


I think this guy goes more in an Alpinid direction primarily, with some Dinarid admixture secondary, instead of vice-versa. Might explain his affinity for food. ;) :P

I thought that some would have said so, but no, he is finally quite typical for a Dinarid, he might have a slight Alpinid influence and is now older, looks more pyknomorphic on some images, but if seeing him in action the essentially Dinarid character is clear. Not all Dinarids are, especially in later years, lean or even gaunt.

Speaking of Albanians, pred. Dinarid Albanians:
http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/kosovo98/photo/underorders/images/pg108.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/54/172669051_b4aa121680_m.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/73/172670150_9cdaa195c8_m.jpg

http://illuminations.berkeley.edu/images/kosovo_men_small.jpghttp://nandotimes.nandomedia.com/ips_rich_content/APTOPIX_MACEDONIA_ELECTIONS_d81c073d-4e15-4d5c-81fa-5172a066555c.jpg

Eva Pepaj, Model, refined-harmonious Leptosomic and pred. Dinarid though most likely with other, mainly Mediterranid influences:
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/kosova/albanian_models/albanian_models/eva_pepaj_05.jpghttp://web.ukonline.co.uk/kosova/albanian_models/albanian_models/eva_pepaj_02.jpg
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/kosova/albanian_models/albanian_models/eva_pepaj_06.jpg

The pred. Dinarid boxer Dieter Roth (192 cm):
http://www.boxing.de/typo3temp/pics/a7344f7ba7.jpg
http://www.boxing.de/fighters/fighters/boxingde/boxingde/boxer/24/spotlight//gallery/photo-gallery-25.html

visigodo
Saturday, October 28th, 2006, 11:58 PM
Two examples of pred. Dinarid types in my opinion:

Umberto Bossi:

http://img322.imageshack.us/img322/2776/umbertobossiyr2.th.jpg (http://img322.imageshack.us/my.php?image=umbertobossiyr2.jpg)http://img322.imageshack.us/img322/5007/umbertobossiyp9.th.gif (http://img322.imageshack.us/my.php?image=umbertobossiyp9.gif)http://img322.imageshack.us/img322/1276/capitalumbertobossivz7.th.jpg (http://img322.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capitalumbertobossivz7.jpg) http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/259/ubji6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/5020/ub2vm4.th.jpg (http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ub2vm4.jpg)

Aivanhov:

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/8959/aivanhovev2.th.gif (http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aivanhovev2.gif)http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/4584/aivanhovbv4.th.jpg (http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aivanhovbv4.jpg)http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/4894/aivanhov2qv8.th.jpg (http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aivanhov2qv8.jpg)http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4708/oma2fs7.th.jpg (http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oma2fs7.jpg)http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9135/meisterportraitdx8.th.jpg (http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=meisterportraitdx8.jpg)

Vita
Monday, October 30th, 2006, 03:27 PM
http://www.disiduboko.com/djuricko_velika.jpghttp://www.sk.co.yu/2004/03/siiv01.jpg
Nikola Djuricko, Serbian actor

http://www.fantasyadria.com/players/bojan_krstovic.jpghttp://nsl.kosarka.co.yu/ptImages/0649499034.jpg http://www.siol.net/Doc/Img/10041020604231934460-4-0-3-1.jpg
Bojan Krstovic (the beast :D )


http://arhiva.glas-javnosti.co.yu/arhiva/2005/12/19/_slike/001BeckovicRupena13.jpghttp://www.oplenac.ca/events/MatijaBeckovic.jpghttp://arhiva.glas-javnosti.co.yu/arhiva/1999/11/17/_slike/Beckovic.jpghttp://www.royalfamily.org/welcome/pictures/m_beckovic.jpg

Matija Beckovic, Montenegrin poet



attachments:

Sergej Cetkovic, Montenegrin singer
Vedrana Grbovic, miss
Radmilo Marojevic, linguist

Glynd Eastŵd
Friday, November 3rd, 2006, 03:07 AM
It just occured to me... Madonna?

http://www.hissandpop.com/celebrities/m/madonna/photos/madonna-001.jpg

http://www.abc.net.au/rage/guest/img/madonna.jpg

http://www.vh1.com/shared/media/images/movies/people/m/madonna/150x223.jpg

I get that "Dinaric vibe" from looking at her pictures.

János Hunyadi
Friday, November 3rd, 2006, 09:49 AM
It just occured to me... Madonna?





http://www.vh1.com/shared/media/images/movies/people/m/madonna/150x223.jpg

I get that "Dinaric vibe" from looking at her pictures.

Definetely not purely dinarid. However, Keltic-Nordid would make sense.

Nordgau
Friday, November 3rd, 2006, 08:40 PM
Helmut Dietl, film producer. Dinaric stuff comes quite well through with his phenotype, I believe.

http://www.henrikjordan.de/pix/portraits/helmut_dietl/popup/helmut_dietl_1.jpg

http://i.tvspielfilm.de/img/gen/V/C/HBVCA7ab4Vr_Pxgen_r_360x240.jpg

http://autogrammsammlung.de/Bilder/dietl.JPG

http://www.einsteinudl.com/images/guest_dietl.jpg

dazed&confused
Friday, November 3rd, 2006, 09:39 PM
Piero Fassino

http://www.forumitmondo.it/EVENTI/Fassino.jpg

http://www.elpais.es/elpaismedia/diario/media/200502/07/internacional/20050207elpepiint_6_I_SCO.jpg

Huzar
Friday, November 3rd, 2006, 09:57 PM
Piero Fassino

http://www.forumitmondo.it/EVENTI/Fassino.jpg

http://www.elpais.es/elpaismedia/diario/media/200502/07/internacional/20050207elpepiint_6_I_SCO.jpg


I agree. Good example.

Skildur
Friday, November 3rd, 2006, 10:12 PM
Is Tommy Lee pred. Dinarid? or rather Med?

http://content.clearchannel.com/Photos/musicians/tommy_lee/tommy_lee_NM.jpg

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/SHOWBIZ/News/05/09/showbuzz/story.tommy.lee.jpg

http://www.mtv.com/shared/media/news/images/j/Jones_Tommy_lee/sq-tommylee-blk-05.jpg

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2004/10/11/tommy_lee,0.jpg

http://www.joysmayhem.com/images/tommy_news_pic_10.25.01.jpg


http://theage.com.au/ffximage/2004/12/07/tommy_lee_wideweb__430x297.jpg

Erbe
Saturday, November 4th, 2006, 09:48 AM
http://www.disiduboko.com/djuricko_velika.jpghttp://www.sk.co.yu/2004/03/siiv01.jpg
Nikola Djuricko, Serbian actor

http://www.fantasyadria.com/players/bojan_krstovic.jpghttp://nsl.kosarka.co.yu/ptImages/0649499034.jpg http://www.siol.net/Doc/Img/10041020604231934460-4-0-3-1.jpg
Bojan Krstovic (the beast :D )


http://arhiva.glas-javnosti.co.yu/arhiva/2005/12/19/_slike/001BeckovicRupena13.jpghttp://www.oplenac.ca/events/MatijaBeckovic.jpghttp://arhiva.glas-javnosti.co.yu/arhiva/1999/11/17/_slike/Beckovic.jpghttp://www.royalfamily.org/welcome/pictures/m_beckovic.jpg

Matija Beckovic, Montenegrin poet



attachments:

Sergej Cetkovic, Montenegrin singer
Vedrana Grbovic, miss
Radmilo Marojevic, linguist

Looking at these dinarids is teaching about how different they are.
First dinarid shows a funny, someway thuggish thiefing one.
Second shows the great sport ability of dinarid with truthfull, courageous look.
Third shows a very hard, warriorish, and consequent man, with knowledge of what's behind humans actions. Somehow cruelty can be read in his face, but i don't consider him really of executing people.

Agrippa
Saturday, November 4th, 2006, 01:51 PM
Is Tommy Lee pred. Dinarid? or rather Med?


He is more Mediterranid than Dinarid but having Dinarid influences of course.

Pro-Alpine
Saturday, November 4th, 2006, 05:37 PM
How come other central European brachycephalic types are not as tall as they are? (like Alpinids)

Agrippa
Sunday, November 5th, 2006, 06:46 PM
How come other central European brachycephalic types are not as tall as they are? (like Alpinids)

The reason for the brachycephaly of Dinaroids is a wholly different one. Dinarids have rather short, infantiles broad and shorter heads usually. The typical Dinarid form is short, medium-broad, high and somewhat Akromegaloid, so very different especially if considering all craniofacial proportions from the reduced-infantilised brachycephalic variants. This somewhat akromegaloid-hyperplastic-leptomorphic growth pattern is in a way the opposite of infantile-pyknomorphic trends.

Compare:
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=36559

Ferryman
Sunday, November 5th, 2006, 08:42 PM
What about Jean Reno?

Agrippa
Sunday, November 5th, 2006, 09:28 PM
What about Jean Reno?

I'd say Dinarid with Atlantid/Atlantomediterranid primarily.

Huzar
Sunday, November 5th, 2006, 10:11 PM
The reason for the brachycephaly of Dinaroids is a wholly different one. Dinarids have rather short, infantiles broad and shorter heads usually. The typical Dinarid form is short, medium-broad, high and somewhat Akromegaloid, so very different especially if considering all craniofacial proportions from the reduced-infantilised brachycephalic variants. This somewhat akromegaloid-hyperplastic-leptomorphic growth pattern is in a way the opposite of infantile-pyknomorphic trends.




That means brachicephaly of Dinarids isn't of Alpinoid derivation, substantially, but rather of something other ?

Agrippa
Sunday, November 5th, 2006, 10:33 PM
That means brachicephaly of Dinarids isn't of Alpinoid derivation, substantially, but rather of something other ?

I think that in a way (typical-classic) Dinarids and Alpinids are the result of a certain source group and mixture, population which split into two extreme, opposite adaptations which main common adaptive characteristics are in the phenotype pigmentation and brachycephaly. With a low-hormonal and infantile-reduced extreme for the isolated peasant and a high-hormonal and mature-akromegaloid extreme for the herders and rulers of the mountains. Obviously everything in between is thinkable in such a spectrum too and one can exist without the other in certain regions too, but in a way they are a completion of each other in rather harsh, isolated, higher and more mountainous areas with iodine and vitamin deficiencies etc.

The higher performing, more warlike and dominant rulers and herders of the mountains and high valleys, peasantry in the lower valleys and forests...
Its thinkable that one can revert the respective tendency which would result in Alpinisation of Dinarids or vice versa, since the difference seems to me to be partly mainly one of growth pattern, maturation and hormonal status, especially in certain Alpine, mountainous areas of Central and South Eastern Europe with Alpinids being ontogenetically retarded, stopping on a more child like status. This is combined with certain morphological peculiarities though, but with an overlap in those areas.

hedon
Sunday, November 5th, 2006, 11:38 PM
I think that in a way (typical-classic) Dinarids and Alpinids are the result of a certain source group and mixture, population which split into two extreme, opposite adaptations which main common adaptive characteristics are in the phenotype pigmentation and brachycephaly. With a low-hormonal and infantile-reduced extreme for the isolated peasant and a high-hormonal and mature-akromegaloid extreme for the herders and rulers of the mountains. Obviously everything in between is thinkable in such a spectrum too and one can exist without the other in certain regions too, but in a way they are a completion of each other in rather harsh, isolated, higher and more mountainous areas with iodine and vitamin deficiencies etc.

The higher performing, more warlike and dominant rulers and herders of the mountains and high valleys, peasantry in the lower valleys and forests...
Its thinkable that one can revert the respective tendency which would result in Alpinisation of Dinarids or vice versa, since the difference seems to me to be partly mainly one of growth pattern, maturation and hormonal status, especially in certain Alpine, mountainous areas of Central and South Eastern Europe with Alpinids being ontogenetically retarded, stopping on a more child like status. This is combined with certain morphological peculiarities though, but with an overlap in those areas.

Farming would be an extraordinary lifestyle for an average alpin. Even untill the end of 19th centuy the main economic acitivity on the alps were herdsmanship.
The richness of italian alpins is a rather late occurrrence after the industrial revolution (mediterranean was no more an opportunity for trade as the main trade was transatlantic and if from africa beyond the hercules' coloumns) to support the industry in Italy the custom taxes were elevated. In order to decrease the transportation burden industry was supported in the north, only after the industrial income waterways were built in the north for farming. The response to the conservativism of industry ws the elevted taxes towards the agricultural products in the fertile southern italy.
http://www.virtualmontana.org/virtualmontana/fr_alps/humgeog/intro.htm
The traditional economy of the Alps is based upon rearing cattle by the seasonal migration between the valley and the high pastures. This is known as transhumance. It is gradually being replaced by a system of keeping cattle in stalls. In the drier areas, the slopes tend to be bare and rocky. There are also forests of pine and larch and pastures with sheep.

Agrippa
Monday, November 6th, 2006, 02:45 PM
Farming would be an extraordinary lifestyle for an average alpin. Even untill the end of 19th centuy the main economic acitivity on the alps were herdsmanship.
...
The traditional economy of the Alps is based upon rearing cattle by the seasonal migration between the valley and the high pastures. This is known as transhumance. It is gradually being replaced by a system of keeping cattle in stalls. In the drier areas, the slopes tend to be bare and rocky. There are also forests of pine and larch and pastures with sheep.

Right. Thats why the real "mountain race" is the Dinarid, an independent herder and warrior of the mountains, and not the Alpinid type. As I said, the higher regions, mountains and high valleys, being primarily the territory of herders and Dinarids. There was peasantry with bad nutrition, a low importance of animal husbandry and under the control of those which came from the mountains or migrated through the Alps and those were the classic Alpinids more often.

You might compare with this too:
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=42966

http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=42374

hedon
Tuesday, November 7th, 2006, 11:06 AM
Right. Thats why the real "mountain race" is the Dinarid, an independent herder and warrior of the mountains, and not the Alpinid type. As I said, the higher regions, mountains and high valleys, being primarily the territory of herders and Dinarids. There was peasantry with bad nutrition, a low importance of animal husbandry and under the control of those which came from the mountains or migrated through the Alps and those were the classic Alpinids more often.

You might compare with this too:
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=42966

http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=42374

hi agrippa,
thanks fo your kind thanks,
i would like to add that alpines are a good example of the adaptation capacity of the wonderfull creatures called the mankind.
alpine adaptation is not only mentally but also physically to the environment. alpinization is specialization which means progression to another state from where we are. short and strong legs of alpines are better for walking in the snow, you fall fast when you are tall. alpine body is more balanced. despite their bony structure their brachycephaly supplies enough space for their mind.

Agrippa
Tuesday, November 7th, 2006, 10:41 PM
i would like to add that alpines are a good example of the adaptation capacity of the wonderfull creatures called the mankind.

Thats true, because without that adaptation the population density and survival rate of certain populations in unfavourable environments would have been lower.


alpine adaptation is not only mentally but also physically to the environment. alpinization is specialization which means progression to another state from where we are.

If its really a progress is another matter though, since niche adaptations can be very one sided and reduce the general potential like its usually always the case with reduction and infantilisation.


short and strong legs of alpines are better for walking in the snow, you fall fast when you are tall.

Its advantageous for the cold, but mainly because of saving. Alpinids were no mobile nor adventuresome people, but sedentary peasants with a minimum of available ressource, energy, malnutrition and deficits on vitamins and mineral nutrients (compare with iodine in particular!). With shorter legs they grow faster, need less bones and muscles, can store the superfluous energy in fat immediately, even from early age on (whereas other variants grow fat - if at all - later in life usually).
Everything what was not cost efficient in this situation of deficiency, hunger, social dependence and suppression, diseases and plagues, was "saved", cut down.

If they would have been just a strong adaptation to the cold, like some Alpinoid variants even are (!), but Alpinisation throughout Europe is not, they would have become larger, bigger, stronger bones and muscles, not reduced and often even infantile pyknomorphs with weaker bones (!).


alpine body is more balanced. despite their bony structure their brachycephaly supplies enough space for their mind.

Their headshape was again mainly the result of saving - saving of bony material and their brainsize is not particularly large for Europid standards.

Earlier maturation, higher fertility rates, lower energy, vitamin, minteral nutrients needs, more "storage", more efficient saving of energy and heat, less risk taking etc.

Just think of a car which has to be: As cheap as possible both in:
Production and maintenance.

You try to save: Material to build the car. So it has to be small, no special design, probably just trying to make it look "more cure and harmless" with whats available. It has to be build up easy and fast, so less complication during production and its faster ready for being trade.
The consumption should be low too, saving high. It shouldnt need too much space and being able to adapt itself easily.

Its clear that such a car is best for an urban environment in which there is a good infrastructure, well developed and maintained streets. Same is true for Alpinids. In a stable civilisation or isolation their saving strategy can work, if there is a real need for competing with performance, they can't on their own, only, if, as a completion of more powerful variants.

The psychic and the physical adaptation are opportunistic in a biological sense. They dont form an environment or dominate it, they adapt to it in a passive way if speaking about the typical-extreme variants.

Cnooc
Saturday, November 11th, 2006, 06:14 AM
Came across this the other day

Dinaricized Asian:

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=85896&stc=1&d=1163225659

hedon
Sunday, November 12th, 2006, 10:39 AM
Thats true, because without that adaptation the population density and survival rate of certain populations in unfavourable environments would have been lower.



If its really a progress is another matter though, since niche adaptations can be very one sided and reduce the general potential like its usually always the case with reduction and infantilisation.



Its advantageous for the cold, but mainly because of saving. Alpinids were no mobile nor adventuresome people, but sedentary peasants with a minimum of available ressource, energy, malnutrition and deficits on vitamins and mineral nutrients (compare with iodine in particular!). With shorter legs they grow faster, need less bones and muscles, can store the superfluous energy in fat immediately, even from early age on (whereas other variants grow fat - if at all - later in life usually).
Everything what was not cost efficient in this situation of deficiency, hunger, social dependence and suppression, diseases and plagues, was "saved", cut down.

If they would have been just a strong adaptation to the cold, like some Alpinoid variants even are (!), but Alpinisation throughout Europe is not, they would have become larger, bigger, stronger bones and muscles, not reduced and often even infantile pyknomorphs with weaker bones (!).



Their headshape was again mainly the result of saving - saving of bony material and their brainsize is not particularly large for Europid standards.

Earlier maturation, higher fertility rates, lower energy, vitamin, minteral nutrients needs, more "storage", more efficient saving of energy and heat, less risk taking etc.

Just think of a car which has to be: As cheap as possible both in:
Production and maintenance.

You try to save: Material to build the car. So it has to be small, no special design, probably just trying to make it look "more cure and harmless" with whats available. It has to be build up easy and fast, so less complication during production and its faster ready for being trade.
The consumption should be low too, saving high. It shouldnt need too much space and being able to adapt itself easily.

Its clear that such a car is best for an urban environment in which there is a good infrastructure, well developed and maintained streets. Same is true for Alpinids. In a stable civilisation or isolation their saving strategy can work, if there is a real need for competing with performance, they can't on their own, only, if, as a completion of more powerful variants.

The psychic and the physical adaptation are opportunistic in a biological sense. They dont form an environment or dominate it, they adapt to it in a passive way if speaking about the typical-extreme variants.

hi,
Human is small, therefore small is beautifull.
It seems that alpines are rather cost-effective machines. They are doing fairly good after the industrial revolution, so it seems they are quick to adaptate themselves to a new environment.
would you mind if i condense the thread a bit?
The brachycephal sarmatian type does not exist.
Northpontic type is average eastern mediterranean as even in the khazar burials a small, delicate, 160 cm, longheaded type is common.
The pathans would be related with gothic (if they are originally indoeuropean)
and this split would have taken place before the divison of centum/satem.
Sarmatians are celtic nordics who are low vaulted and have UP characteristics which means that they are originally from continental europe.
What obscures oslonor is the biggest pathan tribe (i dont remember the exact name at the moment) is either khallach in origin or mixed.
best wishes

Erbe
Monday, November 13th, 2006, 02:06 PM
Dinarid or dinaricized mediteranean or alpinid?

http://www.meijsen.net/vicky/images/voorpagina2.jpg

Erbe
Tuesday, November 14th, 2006, 03:02 PM
http://www.united-kids-foundations.de/ukf/images/portraetmaffay.jpg

Ovid
Saturday, November 18th, 2006, 01:37 AM
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/f/f1/Peter_Stormare.jpg

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/section/movies/filmography/1/WireImage_1976167.jpg

A sinister looking Hollywood-Dinarid. :-O
Peter Stormare - Swedish Prison Break actor. There are Dinarids in Northern Europe as well. I even know 100% Finnish individuals who have typical Dinarid traits like a flattened occiput, "tower head", convex nose and tallness. Unfortunately I don't have pictures of them.

Agrippa
Saturday, November 18th, 2006, 03:26 PM
Peter Stormare is in my opinion not that Dinarid at all, even though having such influences most likely.

However, concerning what you said about Finns, well, in the Baltic countries lives a Dinarid minority, I'd say that Dinarid strains might have migrated upwards from there. Furthermore there is the possibility of rather unusual mixtures or individuals coming up with a similar combination of traits. But most will be (Indo- ?) European descendents which migrated Northwards together with the Nordoid-Cromagnoid groups or descendents of more recent immigrants.

Horagalles
Saturday, November 18th, 2006, 03:45 PM
Peter Stormare is in my opinion not that Dinarid at all, even though having such influences most likely.

.... But most will be (Indo- ?) European descendents which migrated Northwards together with the Nordoid-Cromagnoid groups or descendents of more recent immigrants.This might be a similar example:
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=58535&stc=1&d=1146854739
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=54733
I also noticed that rufosity was present at other dinaroid as well.
What is the relationship between Dinarids ans Celts?!

Agrippa
Saturday, November 18th, 2006, 03:48 PM
This might be a similar example:
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=58535&stc=1&d=1146854739
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=54733
I also noticed that rufosity was present at other dinaroid as well.
What is the relationship between Dinarids ans Celts?!

If speaking about the most typical and classic Keltics, which are not just more recent results of mixture (Nordid-Dinarid), both might have had a significant Bell Beaker influence - I mean both typical Keltics and Dinarids seem to have been influenced by this ancient people in my opinion. Both changed some characteristics later, but the same influence, in Keltics just minor, in Dinarids more significant, might have introduced Dinaroid traits or Dinarisation respectively in a (for Dinarids) favourable (herders and specialists of the mountainous areas) habitat.

Horagalles
Saturday, November 18th, 2006, 04:01 PM
If speaking about the most typical and classic Keltics, which are not just more recent results of mixture (Nordid-Dinarid), both might have had a significant Bell Beaker influence - I mean both typical Keltics and Dinarids seem to have been influenced by this ancient people in my opinion. Both changed some characteristics later, but the same influence, in Keltics just minor, in Dinarids more significant, might have introduced Dinaroid traits or Dinarisation respectively in a (for Dinarids) favourable (herders and specialists of the mountainous areas) habitat.
Bell Beaker being an Dinarid-Cromagnid intermediate.
Dinarids prefer mountains - what is the reason for that?

Ovid
Saturday, November 18th, 2006, 04:54 PM
Peter Stormare is in my opinion not that Dinarid at all, even though having such influences most likely.

However, concerning what you said about Finns, well, in the Baltic countries lives a Dinarid minority, I'd say that Dinarid strains might have migrated upwards from there. Furthermore there is the possibility of rather unusual mixtures or individuals coming up with a similar combination of traits. But most will be (Indo- ?) European descendents which migrated Northwards together with the Nordoid-Cromagnoid groups or descendents of more recent immigrants.

Yes maybe he isn't a pure Dinarid, but he represents Northern Europeans who are Dinarid influenced. How would you classify him?

http://bigcovers.dvd-world.at/images/casts/cast_9280/image.jpg

http://www.smart.co.uk/dreams/grimprm2.jpg

Agrippa
Saturday, November 18th, 2006, 05:05 PM
Bell Beaker being an Dinarid-Cromagnid intermediate.
Dinarids prefer mountains - what is the reason for that?

Compare:
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=44114

Several possible reasons, just to mention some:
The Bell Beakers were mostly defeated or at least their rule (like a privileged caste) was broken in most areas. A lot of, though not all, Bell Beakers were Dinaroid. Therefore after the divide was eliminated, they simply mixed up in most areas, but in other areas they were dominant and especially in some areas of retreat, where they could defend themselves very well like the mountains, they formed larger communities probably (I have certain sites in mind while saying that).

But to talk about Bell Beakers too much means again to miss the point somewhat, because this just relocates the problem from one, to another areas. Finally its about Dinarisation and this type being for some partly known (compare nasal shape: http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=43261) and partly unknown reasons (planoccipital head - Akromegaloid hormonal tendencies?) best suited for living as highlanders, as pastoralists and specialists for certain occupations as dominant and independent force, partly rather isolated in the mountainous regions. They couldnt stand the pressure on the flat land (masses of as progressive Nordoid and Mediterranoid people) where they mainly influenced by admixture (with the exception of Bell Beaker times), but in the mountains and nearby areas they could keep their positions and there were natural selective pressures working for Dinarisation even if f.e. Nordoid Slavs entered their habitat.
They retreated, specialised on being highlanders, where they could defend their territories best, live from their most common subsistence pattern (pastoralists) and the natural selective pressures worked for their phenotype too, even if others might have entered their areas. There was a back and forth in some of course (f.e. Germanic and Slavic expansions).

Whether certain Dinarisation processes had other reasons than that habitat is hard to answer, but at least most of the time the original developments took place in mountainous areas.


Yes maybe he isn't a pure Dinarid, but he represents Northern Europeans who are Dinarid influenced. How would you classify him?

Nordid with Dinarid if going after what I saw from him probably. Might have classified him differently in the past, he really looks somewhat different from one appearance to another...

Pro-Alpine
Saturday, November 18th, 2006, 06:22 PM
Grant Wilson from Ghost Hunters one of the few television shows that I enjoy watching.

http://i10.tinypic.com/2s7z9n6.jpghttp://i15.tinypic.com/2chu7b8.jpg
http://i7.tinypic.com/4hkpywy.gif

János Hunyadi
Friday, January 26th, 2007, 08:24 PM
Christopher Meloni (French/Italian) from Law and Order SVU

http://www.the-trades.com/sjuba/chrismeloni1.JPG

http://staff.washington.edu/meganw/boy/meloni2.jpg

http://www.nndb.com/people/991/000030901/meloni.jpg

Theudiskaz
Friday, January 26th, 2007, 09:00 PM
http://img62.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tirol022ma8.jpg
http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tirol036fx5.jpg
http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tirol033qh2.jpg
http://img241.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tirol034cp5.jpg

http://forums.skadi.net/tirol_und_vorarlberg_erna_lendvai_dircks en-t64922.html?&highlight=dircksen

Erna Lindvai-Dircksen was an excellent photographer.:thumbup

Alchemist
Sunday, January 28th, 2007, 12:02 AM
Sali Berisha, prime-minister of Albania is a lousy politician and a total moron :D , but I think that he serves as a good example of dinarid phenotype, right?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/sq/thumb/5/58/Sali.jpg/240px-Sali.jpg

http://www.famousplagiarists.com/images/berisha.jpg

János Hunyadi
Friday, February 16th, 2007, 02:43 AM
One thing I've noticed is that Dinarid traits always seem to be much more visible in men they they are in women.

In the other extreme, Baltid/East-Baltid/Lappanoid traits always seem more pronounced in women.

SuuT
Thursday, March 1st, 2007, 12:49 AM
What about Jean Reno?

This should have been thanked a billion times.



Jean Reno - Dinarid Exemplar (By far and away the best example given in this thread)



http://img.stopklatka.pl/filmowcy/00900/00939/0.jpghttp://www.linternaute.com/sortir/cinema/diaporama/06/acteurs-francais-mieux-payes/jean-reno.jpg
http://www.nndb.com/people/913/000024841/jean-reno.jpghttp://molok14.fm.interia.pl/JEAN%20RENO%20(14).jpg
http://images.allposters.com/images/mmph/225421.jpg (http://affiliates.allposters.com/link/redirect.asp?aid=889142&c=c&search=2057)http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Events/1613/JeanReno_Vespa_622588_400.jpghttp://jeanreno.chez-alice.fr/General/image/jean01.gifhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c9/Jean_Reno.jpg/200px-Jean_Reno.jpg
http://www.satoshisaikusa.com/pics/celebrity_jean-reno_1.jpg
http://jackandhill.typepad.com/jack_and_hill_a_beauty_bl/images/picjeanreno.jpghttp://swisscharts.com/actorimages/jean_reno.jpghttp://media.monstersandcritics.com/articles/1185248/article_images/headline_1154273444.jpghttp://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b252/tirra_lirra/jean-reno.jpg

EDIT: Don't thank me, thank Ferryman.

Glynd Eastŵd
Thursday, March 1st, 2007, 01:10 AM
Adrien Brody:

http://media.movieweb.com/galleries/3230/2418/hi/hollywoodland.jpg

http://breathoffreshink.com/images/Adrien.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/99/Adrien.Brody%28cannesPH%29.jpg/200px-Adrien.Brody%28cannesPH%29.jpg

http://thecia.com.au/reviews/j/images/jacket-10.jpg

Ylliarte
Thursday, March 1st, 2007, 06:33 AM
Albanian... Azem Maksutaj (Thai Champion of World):

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/9273/azem7zp.jpg
http://www.fujitv.co.jp/sports/k1/photo/fph_azem_maksutaj_r.jpg
http://www.stefanangehrn.ch/pict/vip/gr/azem.jpg
http://www.azemmaksutaj.com/images/_V8T0209_000.jpg
http://www.azemmaksutaj.com/gallery/AzemMaksutajvsMichaelMcDonald/MaksutajvsMcDonald5.jpg
http://www.azemmaksutaj.com/gallery/azem_vs_sefo/azemsefo9.jpg
http://www.azemmaksutaj.com/gallery/azemmaksutaj_yourself/azem_maksutaj_yourself_klein/AzemMaksutaj_thewarrior.jpg

Väring
Thursday, March 1st, 2007, 02:16 PM
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/section/movies/filmography/1/WireImage_1976167.jpg

A sinister looking Hollywood-Dinarid. :-O
Peter Stormare - Swedish Prison Break actor.

He is Trönder. I think some Corded traits that Trönders have can produce Dinarid-like appearances.

János Hunyadi
Thursday, March 1st, 2007, 06:55 PM
Adrien Brody:





http://thecia.com.au/reviews/j/images/jacket-10.jpg

He's Armenoid, he has nothing to do with Dinarics! :thumbdown

Glynd Eastŵd
Thursday, March 1st, 2007, 07:18 PM
He's Armenoid! He has nothing to do with Dinarics! :thumbdown

You say that because he's half-Jewish? :lmfao:

Seriously, how is he Armenoid?

Theudiskaz
Thursday, March 1st, 2007, 07:25 PM
Adrien Brody is cleary predominantly Pontid, even North-Pontid, with Dinarid influence.

János Hunyadi
Thursday, March 1st, 2007, 08:21 PM
You say that because he's half-Jewish? :lmfao:

Seriously, how is he Armenoid?


It has nothing to do with him being a Jew or a half-Jew. Jews come in all forms/shapes/sizes, etc.

It has everything to do with his head shape and facial traits. If you combine a flat occupit with a low vault/forehead and a hooked nose it adds up to an Armenoid skull shape.

http://66.49.190.33/scans/grandes/a-b/adrienbrody/adrienbrody0030.jpg

True Dinarids have a flat occupit combined with a steep vault/forehead. When viewed from a profile, the Dinarid nose is straight of solid bone. Adrien's nose (Armenoid) is fleshy and it has the "notorious" hump in the middle.

Real Dinaric noses

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=56080&stc=1&d=1144444072

Brody's Armenoid nose

http://images.allmoviephoto.com/2002_The_Pianist/2002_the_pianist_003.jpg

Notice how it slopes downward. Dinarid noses aren't like that!

I know Dinarics very well! Most people in my extended family tree are quite Dinarid influenced in one way or another. You just don't see many in the UK except for Albanian immigrants!

;)

For me, saying that Brody is your typical Dinarid is like one claiming that Bjork is your typical Baltid.

Dukagjin
Thursday, March 1st, 2007, 08:45 PM
Shefki Kuqi
(on the left)
http://www.yle.fi/zappa/bilder/stk045/IMG_0629.jpg
http://www.sporting-heroes.net/files_football/KUQI_Shefki_20050820_GH_L.jpg

Agrippa
Thursday, March 1st, 2007, 10:12 PM
He's between Balkan-Cromagnid/very coarse Alpino-Cromagnoid and Dinarid though.

SuuT
Friday, March 2nd, 2007, 12:47 PM
Adrien Brody is cleary predominantly Pontid, even North-Pontid, with Dinarid influence.

This is why I think the word "predominant" doesn't work in these threads. Some people are a Dinarid base, + x, y, and/or z; which to my mind = an exemplar. When we talk about 'predominance', it becomes way too much of an eye-of-the-beholder thing. Pontids having smooth facial features, and characterized by a high skull, a narrow forehead, somewhat narrow apertures of the eyes, and a lighter pigmentation compared to the Mediterranid mean, Brody seems to fit that, as you assert, with Dinarisation. But as far as the Corded influence/intermediate of NordPontid...I hate these threads:D - they rely on words that are not readily quantifiable.

As you imply as well - here and elsewhere - I think we should shoot for exemplars in these threads - otherwise, I'm not sure of their point.

At any rate, I think you are right about Brody, Theudiskaz; but, in so far as Pontids are Dinaricised/Dinarid influenced/Dinaroid, I think that Brody exceeds the 'mean Dinarisation' (If I may be so bold:) ) of Pontids, making him an exemplar, but only within his base variant and relative to the 'mean Dinarisation' of other Europid subraces having Dinarid as a base constituent.

Glynd Eastŵd
Friday, March 2nd, 2007, 04:28 PM
Notice how it slopes downward. Dinarid noses aren't like that!



This image you found of his nose could have been doctored (I took the liberty of zooming in). Either that or it's the expression he's pulling. It doesn't look anything like that in other pictures...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/Cameron88/Untitled-2.jpg

Compare:

http://ffmedia.ign.com/filmforce/image/article/534/534861/adrien-brody-20040730060146012.jpg

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/SPECIALS/2003/oscars/interactive/red.carpet/01.adrien.brody.jpg

http://www.adrien-brody.org/images/adrien-brody-career.jpg


His REAL nose is perfectly concave and leptorrhine, there's nothing 'fleshy' or Armenoid about it. And most people to have a bump in the middle of the nose where bone meets cartilege. It's natural. It doesn't mean they are money-hoarding, child-molesting Armenoids. :P

But nevertheless, there are several other things which speak against him being Armenoid: namely his strong and positive chin, his narrow face, and his relatively light pigmentation along with his tall and slender body type. He doesn't share much at all in common with the Armenoid examples from Coon:

http://med1nuc11.dfc.unifi.it/linnets/troe/images/p42f1.jpg

http://med1nuc11.dfc.unifi.it/linnets/troe/images/p42f2.jpg

Armenoid Dutch (Jewish) politician:

http://www.amsterdam.pvda.nl/upload/images/041202_maurice_in_panamadscn0111_medium_ 1345.jpg

I still think he is a good example of Dinarid. If somebody told me he was from Italy or the Balkans I wouldn't hesitate to believe them. I have consulted friends from there and they have told me he would blend in perfectly. Even Dienekes has cited him as a good example.

http://dienekes.50webs.com/blog/archives/000074.html


I know Dinarics very well! Most people in my extended family tree are quite Dinarid influenced in one way or another. You just don't see many in the UK except for Albanian immigrants! And that sounds very patronising coming from someone living in America. There are a lot of Dinaric influenced Keltic-Nordics and Atlantids in my family; sometimes when the two types overlap they can produce mixes which are very similar to those on the plates you posted (even my mother looks rather Dinaric, I'd show you a picture but I respect her privacy).

Pro-Alpine
Sunday, March 11th, 2007, 01:46 AM
Lope de Aguirre, died long ago but he's very striking.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/24/Lopedeagguire.jpg