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View Full Version : There's a Christian Identity Pastor Quite Near Where I Live



gorgeousgal2k2
Sunday, February 1st, 2004, 08:02 AM
i think its a very odd religion especially since he claims he gets on with his black neighbours :eek

Milesian
Sunday, February 1st, 2004, 11:56 AM
i think its a very odd religion especially since he claims he gets on with his black neighbours :eek

I've heard references to it on occasions, but I've no idea what it is or what it believes - other than it must be some kind of heretical congregation ;)

gorgeousgal2k2
Sunday, February 1st, 2004, 12:44 PM
I've heard references to it on occasions, but I've no idea what it is or what it believes - other than it must be some kind of heretical congregation ;)

Its pretty scary stuff actually. They believe that they are a lost tribe of israel or something, and that they are the chosen people not the Jews.

They also believe that black people are the beasts of the field and were created at the beginning of the world for the whites to rule over.

Also some of them think (www.christianseparatist.org) that the 6th commandment wasn't actually against adultery but against race mixing. Some of them also (apparently) think that Hitler was the second messiah!

They believe that Jews are the children of the devil, the literal children of the devil and that there will be an apocalypse where "God will give the earth to us, his chosen people" and kill all of the non-white races.

They don't eat pork or mix milk and meat together, and they follow the Jewish calendar. Some of their services are actually in Hebrew...it's quite popular among a lot of white power skins even tho their actual every day teachings are similar to jews'...I once looked on a CI website and ther was all this crap about how "it has been scientifically proven that pork is bad for the body"...

Not all of them follow these teachings about pork, but most of them do.

Nordhammer
Sunday, February 1st, 2004, 12:57 PM
Its pretty scary stuff actually. They believe that they are a lost tribe of israel or something, and that they are the chosen people not the Jews.

Not any scarier than modern Judeo-Christianity really, which calls for the genocide of all races by mass miscegenation.



Also some of them think (www.christianseparatist.org) that the 6th commandment wasn't actually against adultery but against race mixing.

That has some basis, as to adulerate means to make impure with improper or inferior ingredients.

CI had its start in Britain, so thank them. ;)

There's an entertaining CI hour called Yahweh's Truth on the Turner Radio Network Tues-Fri starting at 8pm, check it out - www.halturnershow.com

Krampus
Sunday, February 1st, 2004, 01:57 PM
Yes as Nordhammer said Christian Identity started from Britian. It was an offshoot of British Israelism. British Israelism is basically the belief that the British are descended from the ancient Hebrews and a distinction is made between Anglo-Saxons and other Germans who are labeled as Assyrians by followers of British Israelism. British Israelism is mostly extinct except for appearing in the form Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God. His son Ted Armstrong used to appear on TV as a televangelist.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/wwcog.htm

Christian Identity is an expansion of this concept to include the nations of Europe as being descended from the 12 tribes of Israel. Sure there's radical sects like Aryan Nations, but I think most Christian Identity types want to be left alone. I can't accept Christian Identity as I don't see how Hebrew can be related linguistically to Indo-European languages. Also from my own studies it seems the Aryan invaders of India and Europe were most like Kurgan's or Kurgan like culture.

gorgeousgal2k2-

They believe that Jews are the children of the devil, the literal children of the devil and that there will be an apocalypse where "God will give the earth to us, his chosen people" and kill all of the non-white races.

Their genocidal views no doubt were taken from reading the Old Testament where ancient Israelites ran around murdering innocent women and children in the name of the Lord. The difference is I don't see CI types doing this, where we can see actual modern day Israeli’s engaging in this activity on a daily basis.
Edit: spelling

Milesian
Sunday, February 1st, 2004, 02:23 PM
No any scarier than modern Judeo-Christianity really, which calls for the genocide of all races by mass miscegenation.

Interesting, I've been a Christian all my life (except for a while when I cringingly became athiest). I've never heard of a call for race-mixing though. Can you provide a source to this?



That has some basis, as to adulerate means to make impure with improper or inferior ingredients.
CI had its start in Britain, so thank them. ;)

Ah, they sound like those British Israelite people.
Bizarre people! :D

Johnny Reb
Monday, February 2nd, 2004, 01:53 AM
Interesting, I've been a Christian all my life (except for a while when I cringingly became athiest).

You were an athiest? Say it ain't so!

OnionPeeler
Monday, February 2nd, 2004, 04:22 AM
Hate to break the bad news, but mainstream (non "Judeo-Christian") Christianity believes itself to be the "Chosen", not the Jews who are "desolate." The old prophets predicted and Jesus confirmed that the covenant would be/had been broken and so a new covenant in the person of Jesus. This is old hat. Jesus' casting the defiant Jews as the seed of Satan was not whimsical, it was not temper tantrum, it was not polemic. He meant what He said (according to traditional Christianity).

I'm no Christian, much less CI. But I was so raised. No Christian who knows his theology (there are not many) would call the Jews "the Chosen." PC religion aside - no Christian can ignore the resonance between prophecy and Jesus as Messiah. The position, the new covenant, has been fundamental and non-negotiable for two thousand years. Of course, a Presbyterian liberal can work wonders.... ;)

Nordhammer
Monday, February 2nd, 2004, 08:09 AM
Interesting, I've been a Christian all my life (except for a while when I cringingly became athiest). I've never heard of a call for race-mixing though. Can you provide a source to this?


Here's an excerpt from one of Amren's articles http://www.amren.com/979issue/979issue.html:

Billy Graham goes one further and says that the only solution to our race problem is for us to breed with non-whites until human differences disappear. He says we must take alien peoples into our hearts and our homes and, yes, “into our marriages.”

With ministers preaching racial suicide, Christianity may now be more of a threat to our survival than liberalism. At least with liberalism, one recognizes the enemy. But when Christian leaders take liberal positions, they leave the flock defenseless. Ralph Reed and Billy Graham are our opponents, no less than Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy.

The Wall Street Journal recently ran a front page story titled “Racial Reconciliation Becomes a Priority For the Religious Right:”

“[T]he most energetic element of society [today] addressing racial divisions may also seem the most unlikely: the religious right.
“Across the country, conservative congregations and denominations, while sticking to other stringent principles of conservative religious thinking such as the proscription of homosexuality and abortion, are embracing a concept called ‘biblical racial reconciliation’ – a belief that as part of their efforts to please God, they are required by Scripture to work for racial harmony.”

If even “the Christian right” has become part of the rout of traditional Christianity; it is because the New Testament opens the door to universalism. Oswald Spengler wrote that “Christian theology is the grandmother of Bolshevism,” and indeed, ministers routinely preach the “social” gospel, invoking a universalism that differs little from the agenda of the radical left.

Milesian
Monday, February 2nd, 2004, 10:22 AM
Yes, as always the difference is between Traditional Christianity and Modern Christianity (which in fact has no right to be called Christianity at all).
For if modern Christianity teaches things which are contrary to the consistent teaching of the Church, then it is heretical and no longer speaks with authority. The problem is that Liberalism has infected all mainstream religions. (and been calcualted to do so). The abomination at Fatima, where the world's religious leaders joined together for an interfaith prayer for peace was a shocking display of religious indifferentism and Syncretism.

There can be no doubt that this was a blasphemous affair.
It is wriiten that "he who prays with heretics, is a heretic".

As such when relgious leaders preach something contrary to their faith, they are not speaking on behalf of their religion, but their own private opinions.

Therefore when a Christain leader promotes a liberal agenda, he is preaching Liberalism, not Christianity.

As for the Universiality of Christianity, it must be understood in terms of Spiritual Universiality. Pushkin posted a thread on the Christian doctrine of Nations which shows that Traditional Christianity is wholly compatible with our goals of preservation.

Because Liberal leaders have usurped the name of Christianity, does not mean that they preach it. As for Bolshevism being the logical consequence of Christianity, I doubt that. I'm not sure that an athiestic, materialistic philosophy could arise from a religious, spiritual one. Christianity tended not to fair too well under Communist governments.

wild_bill
Tuesday, March 23rd, 2004, 10:35 PM
Hate to break the bad news, but mainstream (non "Judeo-Christian") Christianity believes itself to be the "Chosen", not the Jews who are "desolate." The old prophets predicted and Jesus confirmed that the covenant would be/had been broken and so a new covenant in the person of Jesus. This is old hat. Jesus' casting the defiant Jews as the seed of Satan was not whimsical, it was not temper tantrum, it was not polemic. He meant what He said (according to traditional Christianity).


[You are right. See following article that expresses the traditional Christian position on the Jews. The following is an excerpt from Rev. Michael Azkoul's "The Teachings of the Holy Orthodox Church," published by Dormition Skete, Buena Vista, CO. 1986. Take note that this is not merely Rev. Azkoul's personal opinion, but is the book has received the blessing of His Grace, ALYPY, Bishop of Cleveland, and Vicar of Chicago, Detroit and Middle America - Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia.]

THE APOSTASY OF THE JEWS

There is no doubt that the prophets of the Old Testament foretold God's rejection of the Jews. "That the Jews, according to what to what had been foreseen, have departed from God and have lost His favor," wrote St. Cyprian of Carthage in Testamonies Against the Jews, "which in times past had been given to them and had been promised to them; but the Christians have succeeded to their place, deserving well of the Lord by faith, andcoming out of all the nations and from the whole world."

The Jews were repudiated by God because they turned from Christ. "He came to His Own and they recieved Him not." (John 1:11). "For they that dwell at Jerusalem and their rulers," said the Apostle Paul, "because they knew Him not, nor the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled their words by condemning Him," the Apostle continues, "yet they urged Pilate to kill Him. And when they had fulfilled all that was written concerning Him, He was taken down from the tree and layed in a sepulchre." (Act 13:27-28). But their hope was frustrated for "the God of our fathers raised Jesus Who you killed by hanging Him on a tree." (Acts 5:30). "Therefore, let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made Him both Lord and Christ, That same Jesus Whom you crucified"(Acts 2:36).

To the Jews, St. Jerome wrote in his homily 94 On the Pascha,

"Oh truly unhappy Jews, O truly wretched and pitiable Jews, who failed to realize that the Stone which Isaiah promised would be laid in the foundations of Zion (Isa. 28:16), andwould unite both peoples, was the Lord Savior, the Son of God! That is the Stone you rejected when you were building the congregation of the Lord and were custodians of the sacred rites of the Temple. Rejected by you, He has become the cornerstone; and the first Church, gathered from among the Jews and the believers from the nations, He has united into one flock and into one divine mystery. 'By the Lord has this been done; it is wonderful in our eyes' (Ps. 117:23). It is wonderful that we who, before the Passion of the Lord, were without covenant and without law, should be adopted into the sonship of God, and that while the former lioncloth was disintegrating and falling away (Jer. 13:7-12), God would weave for Himself another and prepare for Himself another people."

When the Jews, at the trial of Jesus shouted, "Away with Him! Crucify Him.....Let His blood be upon us and our children!" (John 19:15; Matt. 24:25), say all the Fathers, they condemned themselves and their posterity.

These words, this curse upon themselves with the very blood of the Messiah - with all the significance "blood" had for the Jews - more than anything else led to their estrangement from God. It was the final act of defiance, the supreme act of disobedience, a defiance and disobedience with no excuse, because St. John Chrysostom rightly maintained, they had the prophets.

"If they did not have the prophets, they would not deserve punishment; if they had not read the sacred books, they would not be so unclean and unholy. But, as it is, they have been stripped of all excuse. They did have the heralds of truth, but, with hostile hearts, they set themselves against the prophets and the truth they spoke. So it is for this reason that they would be all the more profane and guilty of blood....."

The prophets foretold that the Messiah would come and under what circumstances. They could have believed and all the house of Israel would have been saved; indeed, she could have entered into a new and glorious Covenant with Him, joining Him and the Gentiles in the divine task of redeeming the human race and transforming the creation. Instead the Jews fulfilled the prophesies concerning their apostasy. As Malachi said,

"Judah is forsaken, and has become an abomination in Israel and in Jerusalem, because Judah profaned the hikiness of the Lord in those things wherein he has loved and courted strange gods. The Lord will cut off the man who does such things, and he shall be made base in the tabernacle of Jacob" (Mal. 2:11).

And Nehemiah prophecied also,

"They have fallen away from Thee, and have cast they law behind their backs, and have killed the prophets which testified against them that they should return to Thee" (Neh. 9:26).

Likewise, Isaiah,

"Israel has not known Me, and My people have not perceived Me. A sinful nation, a people filled with sins, a wicked seed, lawless children; ye have forsaken the Lord, and provoked the Holy One of Israel" (Isa. 1:3,4).

And Hosea,

"And the Lord said, 'Call his name not My people, and I am not your God' (Hos. 1:9).....My people are destroyed for the lack of knowledge; because they have rejected knowledge, I will reject you from being a priest to Me. And since you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children!" (Hos. 4:6).

And finally, the prophet Amos, announced the destruction of Old Israel, but not "utterly."

"Behold the eyes of the Lord God are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from the surface of the ground; except that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, says the Lord" (Amos 8:9).

In other words, although the covenant with the Jewish nation has been nullified, God has not forgotten His promises to Abraham, Moses, and David.

Prophesy has ended in Israel - St. John the Baptists was the last of the prophets; the Temple will be destroyed and its rites and priesthood abolished (70 A.D.), as the Lord said; the Jews will be dispersed among the Gentiles; and the Jews will lose their unity. Nevertheless, a "remnant will remain" and provide the nucleus for the new Israel (Joel 2:32). Together with the Gentiles, God will give them a new and final Covenant. "And I will sow Her unto Me in the earth," Hosea said, reporting the words of the Lord, "and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which are not My people, 'You are My people; and they will say to Me, 'Thou art my God'." (Hosea 2:23) Therefore, St. Justin Martyr could justifiably assert about the Church, the new Israel,

"We have been led to God through the crucified Christ and we are the true spiritual Israel, and the descendants of Judah, Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham, who, though uncircumsized, was approved and blessed by God because of his faith and was called the father of many nations."

All those who hold the Faith of Christ, Jews and Gentiles, compose the New Israel and share in the new Covenant. As the Lord said, "Behold I am God to a nation which has not called upoin My Name" (Isa. 65:1); and "it shall come to pass that whomever calls upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved" (Joel 2:32; John 3:16). The Church of Jesus Christ, here is the "nation" promised to the patriarchs and prophecied by type and vision, a new nation, begun with the "remnant" of Old Israel, but which welcomes all peoples, all who profess that Christ is Lord.

wild_bill
Tuesday, March 23rd, 2004, 10:40 PM
[Contrary to the opinion of some atheist racialists, traditional Christianity DOES NOT advocate racemixing. For proof, see this statement by an Orthdox Bishop which I think is totally in line with traditional Christianity of all branches.]

ORTHODOX VIEW OF INTERRACIAL MARRIAGE
Bishop Iakovos, Prof. of Orthodox Theology, Holy Cross Greek Orthodox School of Theology. 1987.

QUESTION: "No matter what Hollywood and the Church say, I can't believe God smiles on such (interracial) marriages."

ANSWER: I wish to respond to the brief comment on several levels. On the level of the issue itself, the expression "God smiles on such marriages" can be understood in a number of ways. If by it, you mean that you believe that God does not encourage racially mixed marriages, the, I believe we are not in disagreement. I feel I made it very clear that the Church does not feel such marriages are desirable, for many different reasons, many of which are practical and have to do with the chance of success for such marriages. In addition, we should also add that the Church holds that races and nations were created by God. Consequently, the total intermarriage would destroy the races which God created. The Church has never advocated or encouraged racially mixed marriages.

Nevertheless, to assume a stance that would completely prohibit such marriages, would mean that the Church was racist, in that the criterion which is used was not one of faith, or belief, or the equal dignity of all human beings as the "image and likeness of God," but solely a racial criterion. This it has never done, nor can it do and remain faithful to its teachings. If by the idea that "God does not smiles on such marriages," you are saying that God absolutely forbids these marriages, then, I believe the burden of proof is on you - since we have no New Testament teaching, nor canonical directives, nor Church practice to that effect.

kinvolk
Wednesday, April 7th, 2004, 11:17 PM
Its pretty scary stuff actually. They believe that they are a lost tribe of israel or something, and that they are the chosen people not the Jews.

They also believe that black people are the beasts of the field and were created at the beginning of the world for the whites to rule over.

Also some of them think (www.christianseparatist.org (http://www.christianseparatist.org)) that the 6th commandment wasn't actually against adultery but against race mixing. Some of them also (apparently) think that Hitler was the second messiah!

They believe that Jews are the children of the devil, the literal children of the devil and that there will be an apocalypse where "God will give the earth to us, his chosen people" and kill all of the non-white races.

They don't eat pork or mix milk and meat together, and they follow the Jewish calendar. Some of their services are actually in Hebrew...it's quite popular among a lot of white power skins even tho their actual every day teachings are similar to jews'...I once looked on a CI website and ther was all this crap about how "it has been scientifically proven that pork is bad for the body"...

Not all of them follow these teachings about pork, but most of them do. Who in the hell are you to be saying what this religion believes?

gorgeousgal2k2
Thursday, September 16th, 2004, 10:44 PM
yes but i didn't say what it beleived, I found out about it...

Northern Paladin
Friday, September 17th, 2004, 08:05 PM
They are a bunch of lunatics. Anyone who thinks Jesus and the Israelites were Aryans and not Semites needs to be medicated.

herr georg
Friday, November 11th, 2005, 05:06 AM
No one is denying that Jesus and the Israelites were semites, the
Israelites spoke a semitic language, hebrew, and Jesus was an Israelite from the House of Judah. Semitic means 'from the lineage of shem' (shemite or shemitic) who was one of the three sons of Noah and the forefather of Abraham, the patriarch of the Israelites. The arabs (that means the ancient tribes of saudi arabia ONLY) also came from the lineage of shem, being descended from ishmael the brother of isaac. The covenant of Israel was passed through Isaac. Ishmael was born of an egyptian mother and himself had children with an egyptian woman, meaning that the ishmaelites would naturally be a mediterranean people. God said ishmael would be made into a great nation but would be a 'wild donkey of a man'. Traditionally the ishmaelites were meant to be racemixers. The modern people of the middle east are a mixture of the ishmaelites, and original inhabitants of their respective countries, and a portion of negro, and possibly some other blood (palestinians are found to be 8.8% black). After the death of king solomon Israel split into two kingdoms, the northern kingdom known simply as 'israel' and the south known as 'judah'. The north was taken into captivity by the Assyrians and the ten tribes of the northen kingdom of Israel dissappeared, having sed to have settled north of the euphrates (where europe is).
It is a very old tradition that the teutonic, celtic and kindred people of northern europe are the lost ten tribes of Israel. In the scottish declaration of independance it is stated that the people of scotland are from the lost ten tribes and even details their migrational patterns, and this was acknowledged by the pope. It is an old tradition of the european royal families, particularily the british, that is still held today. It would be especially common in the church of england. It was certainly not an unusual or uncommon beleif back in the day, if it was not understood that european christendom were the physical posterity of Abraham, they were seen as the spiritual prosterity of Abraham. It is even acknowledged in jewish lore, and jewish encyclopedia, in fact there are jews and messianic jewish congregations around today that beleive in anglo-israelism. Certainly anglo-israelism did not begin with 'Christian Identity' - and was around long before 'british israel' existed on people's lips. 'Christian Identity' is not a religon, a movement, or an organisation, 'Identity' was used to refer to the identity christians had with the lost ten tribes.