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Blutwölfin
Saturday, November 19th, 2005, 01:58 AM
Originally posted by Dr. Solar Wolff at Skadi (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=7602), brought to my attention by goswinus (http://www.forums.skadi.net/member.php?u=30) - and now I have to share it with you:


Bassou: Man-Ape Hybrid?


http://www.jrbooksonline.com/Bassou_crop_small.jpg

Bassou lives in the Valley of Dades, near the town of Skoura, in Morocco. He sleeps in the trees there and subsists on dates, berries, and insects. He wears no clothes (although he was persuaded to don a burlap sack for the photograph which appears here), uses no tools, and speaks only in grunts.

The local Berbers have been aware of Bassou's presence for at least the past 25 years, but they shun him in superstitious fear and have been unable to give any clue as to his origin. Western scientists have also been aware of Bassou for a number of years, but, for the most part, they too shun him in superstitious fear. For Bassou's existence raises some very troubling questions for the true believers in the TV religion of universal human equality. It has been hard enough for them to try to fit Blacks and Whites together into that scheme, without having to worry about Bassou.

What is Bassou? No one really knows. He displays both ape-like and manlike characteristics. Those who have studied him, however, have been reluctant to accept the suggestion that he is the product of a mating between a human being –- Negro or Berber -- and an anthropoid ape, all three of which Morocco has an abundance.

Yet, Bassou is clearly something special, and not just a deformed human being. With arms so long his fingers hang below his knees when he stands upright; with massive, bony ridges above his eyes and a sharply receding forehead; with jaws, teeth, chin, and cheekbones all showing pronounced ape-like characteristics, he is a true ape-man.

There have been rumors for centuries -- ever since Africa was opened to European exploration -- of apes raiding African villages and mating with Negro women. Thus, the King Kong legend. Scientists have never been able to confirm these rumors, and it has been assumed that, even if such matings did occasionally take place, there would be no offspring.

But there has never been a scientific effort -- largely for religious reasons -- to actually determine whether a union between some human sub-species -- a Negro, say -- and some species of ape, might be fertile. Numerous other examples of inter-specific matings which yield hybrid offspring are known. The mule is a cross between a horse and a donkey, and the liger is a cross between a lion and a tiger, for example.

If Bassou is indeed such a hybrid -- and no other plausible explanation for him has yet been brought forward -- then his existence throws a real monkey wrench into the neo-liberal theory of the separateness of man from the rest of Nature. It forces us to face the continuity of Nature's hierarchy. And it makes us ask some questions.

What is human? Where shall we draw the line? Shall we include Bassou and begin worrying about whether his "human dignity" has been abused? And if we include Bassou -- and if he is a hybrid -- what of his parents? Shall we include one but not the other? If we include both, are we to turn loose all the chimpanzees and gorillas now in our zoos and register them to vote?

Perhaps we need to re-examine the whole myth of racial equality and begin to face reality.


Source (http://www.jrbooksonline.com/bassou.htm)

HIM
Saturday, November 19th, 2005, 02:21 AM
Wow! I have taken anthropology classes in college, but never have heard of this creature. This is very interesting. I wonder why scientists have yet to take a blood sample and test his DNA? I recall seeing a video on a special chimp that always walked upright and seemed to be much more intelligent that the average chimp. I cannot recall his name though. But this is much more astonishing! I really am surprised that I had not heard about this Bassou. I'd really like to know the origins of this creature.


By the way, the liger is my favourite animal. They're actually bred for their magical powers. :laugh:

Blood_Axis
Saturday, November 19th, 2005, 01:56 PM
Ah, yes.

This article was printed in a greek NS magazine during the late 80's or early 90's. I came across it some years ago, and was profoundly shocked..

Death and the Sun
Saturday, November 19th, 2005, 07:21 PM
I have read of this case before too, but actually it seems that this whole case is a cryptozoological hoax.

The idea that an ape and a human being could produce a live offspring seems very unlikely to me.

I don't need any faked evidence to despise negroes, to be honest. I'm content with demostrable reality. :cool:

Sigurd
Saturday, November 19th, 2005, 07:24 PM
And, from the picture he somewhat seems closer to a Negroid than any White race.

The whole thing is a really shocking article, but at least it brings up the one idea of the truth in the rumour of it being quite normal for people in Africa to have sexual intercourse with apes, and also questions racial equality.

Racial equality should not be there either. I mean, having seen the movie Queen of the Damned of recent, one could easily tell that 1)the black one looked nothing like the others, and 2)that the redhaired one was not a redhead of nature (to dark the eye pigmentation), and it only became more possible after the mask and pigmentation was fitted after her turning immortal.
Racial equality being void? :scratch: Tell me something new! We've known that for many years now!

Blutwölfin
Saturday, November 19th, 2005, 07:39 PM
And, from the picture he somewhat seems closer to a Negroid than any White race.

No one claimed him to be white, but an offspring of a black woman and a chimp. :scratch:

Anyway, of course it's cryptozoology (http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=12114) :icon12:

Frans_Jozef
Saturday, November 19th, 2005, 08:42 PM
I suppose most people prefer to enjoy the night life at Saturday, get drunk, laugh and cheer, rocking the casbah now on the dance floor and later between the bed sheets in stead of following that bloody link to the original thread and read The Three Skadi Musketeers' opinion on the Bassou problem...:rolleyes:

So, to accomodate our dear readers and stick the discussion to this topic on a more sapiens level, I'll quote the exchanges between dr. Solar Wolff, Morfrain_Encilgar and myself held in the latter part of the original thread:

Morfrain:


Frans mentioned Azzo Bassou to me in connection with the Aterians. (He says he is going to write about this subject soon.) Frans thinks he shows some reemergence of the Aterian race of North Africa, which was not modern.

me:


I deal with the cultural aspect on a later instance, but the reemergence of the Atherian race, sparsely and contained in time, as a relict of the Homo erectus is not far-fetched.
Leaky, Aguirre and particularly Jelinek have argued favourably for dismissing a distinction of HE with the sapiens form, invoking the lack of clear boundaries between these two species.
Jelinek went further saying that the anatomical links between Middle and Late Pleistocene populations in several regions made it impossible for seperating HE with contemporary HS and that these links warranted a regional continuity where changes occured only in a subspecies level.

Here is a picture of a modelled Homo erectus:
http://www.geocities.com/palaeoanthropology/Herectus.html

Morfrain:


I've imcluded the description of Homo caprensis. Included in it is a discussion of the relationships between various hominids besides modern sapiens and the neanderthals.

Dr. Solar Wolff:


So, Frans Jozef, is the subject in question Homo erectus or Homo ergaster? Or is this a freak? Please state your reasoning.

me:


Inconclusive.

A microcephalic person has a small skull, Homo erectus was the first large-brained human, but Bassou strikes by the presence of archaic traits which however problematically overlap some physical marks of recognisation pertaining to microcephaly, the great discordance between the face in regard to the brain case, the low and retreating forehead with protuberance of the browridges, but while Homo erectus had a projected transverse torus, in microcephalics the occiput is simply vertical, steep.
The head of microcephalics is called a "bird head" by its special shape, now strange enough a pathological type, called by Lundman *Kubiformer Typus*, does exist among the pariah-like lower ranks of Indonesian society, the face is abnormally stretched and the jaws stands out as ape-like muzzle; Lundman is vague on its origin, but traces it back to residual fully absorbed Veddoid elements, notwithstanding that Veddoids are orthognatious;
Weinert makes mention of a special *weddider Gesichtsbildung* whereby the whole face seems to jut forward, the cranial capacity is about 1200cc but usual lower and the limbs very equatorial in design...

Morfrain:



He lived in the Maghreb, so I would imagine that he was of Caucasoid ancestry.

me:


A fragment of a human mandible from the Hana Fteah site in Cyrenaica, Lybia would fall within the Mount Carmel series in size, resembling Tabun 1 and 2 but with non-neanderthaloid features.
Coon contemplates the possibility of a refuse area for the Levalloisio-mousterian industry of the Levantine, though not contemporay but far younger in age(38000BC).

"...this evidence suggests by the time of the Göttweig Interstadial a presumably sapiens Caucasoid people, like the Mount Carmel population, may have penetrated northeast Africa.
These people must have been in contact with the northwest Africans of that period, and may have perhapsoccupied the Nile Valley.
If the northwest Africans had not already become sapiens by local evolution, here was their opportunity to rise to the sapiens grade through gene flow, and to acquire a measure of Caucasoid characteristics some 25000years before the arrival of the Mouillians."
(The Origin of Races)

Btw, the Negro race must have emerged very recently in Africa, at least the bioarchaeological record points their arrival in East and South Africa long after the settlement of - Europid- Capsians from the Middle East, and that mixture took place between the Kenyan Capsians and an ancient, indigenous East African race, which might have been ancestral to Bushmen, although the same area was already inhabitated by a large-skulled and tall-statured branch of the Khoisanids, who previously had lived in North Africa but pushed out of the way by the Capsian colonists, moving across the Sahara, which at the time was a rich and lush "water garden" with plenty of herding animals, and rendered sufficient lure to penetrate the continent further south.

One theory relates the formation of the Negro race to contacts between Europids and unreduced Khoisanids, which coincides what I sated on the belated presence of Negroes in East Africa:

Milan Kalous
The Capoid and the Capsian
RCHIV ORIENTÁLNÍ : Quarterly Journal of African and Asian Studies
Vol. LXIX No.4 2001


An Interdisciplinary Hypothesis The article explains the theory that
the Negro race, emerging very soon after the Capsian impact on Africa and
at the same time in various parts of the Continent, owed its origin to
genetic contacts between the indigenous African Homo sapiens sapiens
(called "tall Khoisan" or "Capoid") and the Palestinian Cromagnon who is
known in African history as the "Capsian". The considerable physical
differences between the two human types must have, under very specifıc
conditions of the period, created a large variety of hybrids. Only those
of them, however, survived, and even gave rise to a new and very vital
human race, who compensated for the environmental weakness of one of
their parents with various "evolutionary inventions" and additional
protections. The melanin pigment of the Negro race can be best explained in
this context.

-- cited in a private communication from Morfrain to me.

Kalevi
Sunday, November 20th, 2005, 12:53 AM
Homo Sapiens Photoshopiensis.

Notice the strict lines between face and head. The original creature - which seems to be just a long-limbed negro with a poor wardrobe - is looking in a bit different direction than the face, wherever which may be taken from.

http://www.jrbooksonline.com/Bassou_crop_small.jpg

Arcturus
Sunday, November 20th, 2005, 02:04 AM
I have to agree strongly with Kalevi on this one (having earlier today spent some 3hrs digitally 'pimping' my Lancia for fun...), I'd say this is a doctored image.

Catterick
Thursday, April 7th, 2016, 09:09 PM
Bassou does look like someone microcephalic, though of course it would be nice to have a DNA sample there are no native apes in Africa. And original story was Bassou was a baboon-human hybrid.

I have seen more photos of him, he was real and behaved as a human with mental difficulties.

Shadow
Wednesday, April 20th, 2016, 03:27 AM
We have Zana and her hybrid son Khwit. We have Ivan Sanderson's description of a hybrid Tibetan monk (snowman-human). And we have two cases in the USA describing human-bigfoot hybrids. Yes, they are working to get the DNA and yes Dr. Brian Sykes is in that loop. In fact, this same researcher in the USA is working on finding other hybrids.

Bassou's two sisters were said to share some or most of these traits but were married into the local population.

So, is Bassou some sort of erectus or Australeopithicine? He probably can't be without a breeding population of those creatures surviving today. But he can be a statistical freak. For instance if we are 1-4% Neanderthal then 1-4% of the time a full Neanderthal would be born within our people. Why does this not happen? Because that 1-4% is not the complete genome, it is a fractional part and that fractional part varies between individuals and racial groups so it never completely manifests itself.

Nevertheless, Bassou has so many features, including a proclivity for trees and an ability in them, that some sort of a H. habilis or more primitive ancestry, in recent times, is indicated.

Catterick
Wednesday, April 20th, 2016, 04:59 PM
I've seen other photos in which he walks with his palms outwards, this is a microcephalic trait but also seen in early Homo species I admit. Just that his supposed primitiveness can also be explained by microcephalism, makes recent hybridisation redundant. If you search for "Azzo Bassou" instead of just Bassou then there are a few photos of him online. His arms aren't especially long, and he has the bird-face look.

Hammish
Wednesday, April 20th, 2016, 05:12 PM
The images above are similar to the images of adult Zika victims going around news sites.

Couldn't another possibility be some form pathogen induced microcephaly?

The Horned God
Wednesday, April 20th, 2016, 07:00 PM
It seems to me that if human-ape hybrids were possible, a fair number of them would have come to light throughout history and it would be a recognised phenomenon.

As it is, none if the great apes have been known to hybridise with each other, let alone with humans.

Therefor, that this individual is a congenitally deformed human abandoned by his family (a not uncommon practice in much of the 3rd world) seems to me to be the most likely explanation for his appearance. In the absence of a genetic test proving something else, that's the explanation I would favour.

Catterick
Wednesday, April 20th, 2016, 07:12 PM
It seems to me that if human-ape hybrids were possible, a fair number of them would have come to light throughout history and it would be a recognised phenomenon.

As it is, none if the great apes have been known to hybridise with each other, let alone with humans.

Therefor, that this individual is a congenitally deformed human abandoned by his family (a not uncommon practice in much of the 3rd world) seems to me to be the most likely explanation for his appearance. In the absence of a genetic test proving something else, that's the explanation I would favour.

There was a similar fuss about Oliver the humanzee, in fact he was a chimp with a life of abuse that caused plasticity of his skeleton and behaviours. Darren Naish pointed out that Japanese macaques trained to dance also possess similar postures and for that matter even a goat born without forelimbs became a human-like bipedalist. Though in that case I wonder if the bipedal-type traits of the little goat's skeleton were merely plastic or syndromic - probably both? The goat was described by Slijper as having an unusually narrow thorax, unusual pelvic and lumbar features involving the muscles and tendons as well as the skeleton and more flexed hindlimbs than expected of a regular goat.

The Horned God
Wednesday, April 20th, 2016, 07:54 PM
There was a similar fuss about Oliver the humanzee, in fact he was a chimp with a life of abuse that caused plasticity of his skeleton and behaviours.


I remember seeing a documentary on Oliver the so called "humanzee". It was very interesting for sure. Poor Oliver seemed to be so confused by his upbringing among humans that it appears he made little distinction between himself and humans. Reportedly even trying to mate with human women on a number of occasions...

I don't know much about the two legged goat, but it seems that there is enough natural variation within species, due to disease or human interaction etc so as to alter the appearance of an individual of a given species so much as to make a casual observer question if they are looking a known species or something different altogether.

Every year in South America there are reports of a type of cryptid known as the "Chupacabra" or "goat sucker" thought by some to be an animal of extraterrestrial origin. However, whenever these creatures are caught they always turn out to be something more prosaic, usually a canine suffering from mange...


http://mdc.mo.gov/media/image/chupacabra-or-mangy-coyote

Shadow
Thursday, April 21st, 2016, 02:25 AM
I've seen other photos in which he walks with his palms outwards, this is a microcephalic trait but also seen in early Homo species I admit. Just that his supposed primitiveness can also be explained by microcephalism, makes recent hybridisation redundant. If you search for "Azzo Bassou" instead of just Bassou then there are a few photos of him online. His arms aren't especially long, and he has the bird-face look.

If he is walking with his hands facing outward the muscle attachment for the biceps muscle is not in the fully human position. I believe the last ones like this were H. habilis and Dmanisi.

Catterick
Thursday, April 21st, 2016, 01:28 PM
If he is walking with his hands facing outward the muscle attachment for the biceps muscle is not in the fully human position. I believe the last ones like this were H. habilis and Dmanisi.

Also the Flores hobbits of Liang Bua.

Catterick
Thursday, April 21st, 2016, 10:40 PM
Thre's been a fair bit of research into bipedal monkeys, wonder how much of it applied to Oliver?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004724840400065X

Shadow
Friday, April 22nd, 2016, 02:23 AM
Also the Flores hobbits of Liang Bua.

Yes, which I always maintained were not even Homo or at very best H. habilis.

Erectus, our first Homo, was able to throw objects overhand like a baseball pitcher. Apes cannot do this. But like everything else, there is an engineering trade off. What we lost was the ape-like ability to climb trees. We know Bassou could climb trees well and we now know he walked with his palms facing forward so if you add ape-like arm and shoulder anatomy to his list of other non-human traits we have a whole package of these traits in which he is more ape-like than human. How can this just be a statistical genetic occurrence?

Catterick
Friday, April 22nd, 2016, 02:49 PM
Yes, which I always maintained were not even Homo or at very best H. habilis.

Erectus, our first Homo, was able to throw objects overhand like a baseball pitcher. Apes cannot do this. But like everything else, there is an engineering trade off. What we lost was the ape-like ability to climb trees. We know Bassou could climb trees well and we now know he walked with his palms facing forward so if you add ape-like arm and shoulder anatomy to his list of other non-human traits we have a whole package of these traits in which he is more ape-like than human. How can this just be a statistical genetic occurrence?

The Liang Bua creatures now seem in some ways close to Asian erectus and even to sapiens going off their reduced lower first molar. Its a weird blend of extremely ancient or australopithecine and very modern.

The new Homo naledi is even wierder. That homo erectus-type skull with a chimp-like brain size, an australopithecine jawbone and erectus or sapiens type limb proportions?

Shadow
Friday, April 22nd, 2016, 07:29 PM
The Liang Bua creatures now seem in some ways close to Asian erectus and even to sapiens going off their reduced lower first molar. Its a weird blend of extremely ancient or australopithecine and very modern.

The new Homo naledi is even wierder. That homo erectus-type skull with a chimp-like brain size, an australopithecine jawbone and erectus or sapiens type limb proportions?

And no dating. I think history has proven conclusively when an anthropologist or wanna-be anthropologist finds a fossil man in Africa, we should take a breath, study the bones, and totally disregard whatever that finder-guy says.

Catterick
Friday, April 22nd, 2016, 07:32 PM
And no dating. I think history has proven conclusively when an anthropologist or wanna-be anthropologist finds a fossil man in Africa, we should take a breath, study the bones, and totally disregard whatever that finder-guy says.

There seems no question to me Homo naledi is further from the mainline than are the hobbits despite the more modern looking hindlimbs. Claims their faces were particularly seem dishonest, based on selectively angling the skull?

Shadow
Friday, April 22nd, 2016, 07:37 PM
There seems no question to me Homo naledi is further from the mainline than are the hobbits despite the more modern looking hindlimbs. Claims their faces were particularly seem dishonest, based on selectively angling the skull?

Locomotion came before brains and faces. So first came the hind limbs, feet, hips and back. Then came the arms, shoulders and hands. Finally, the brain and reduction of the face.

Catterick
Friday, April 22nd, 2016, 07:55 PM
Locomotion came before brains and faces. So first came the hind limbs, feet, hips and back. Then came the arms, shoulders and hands. Finally, the brain and reduction of the face.

Huh? Homo naledi is more modern than Homo floresiensis below the torso. They're the reverse, the hobbits are like australopithecines with more modern erectus-type skulls and even sapiens-ish teeth.

Shadow
Friday, April 22nd, 2016, 08:04 PM
Huh? Homo naledi is more modern than Homo floresiensis below the torso. They're the reverse, the hobbits are like australopithecines with more modern erectus-type skulls and even sapiens-ish teeth.

That is my point. And so naledi is more on-line with mainstream human evolution.