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Argonaut
Friday, November 4th, 2005, 11:35 AM
The Afrikaners are a people of South Africa. Their ancestors were Dutch, German, and French. It is estimated that the French component is about 15%.

The Afrikaners speak a language derived from Dutch, which is called Afrikaans or Afrikander. They have a culture of their own, with writers and poets writing in Afrikaans.

The French part of the Afrikaners are originally Huguenots (French Protestants) who fled religious persecution in France. They found refuge in Netherlands, where some of them embarked for South Africa with Dutch fellows.

The best specialist of the French presence in South Africa is the historian Bernard Lugan (University of Lyons).

In one of his books (Huguenots et Francais. Ils ont fait l'Afrique du Sud), he gives the names of the first French settlers in South Africa. Among them was a M. Thérond and his family, whose name was then 'netherlandized' in 'Theron'. So now you know more about the actress Charlize Theron!

You'll find here the site of AWB (Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging), which defends the right of self-government for the Afrikaner people. Sections in English, German and French :

http://www.awb.co.za/

RoyBatty
Friday, November 4th, 2005, 09:00 PM
My ancestors on one parents' side are Huguenots. The other is mostly Dutch & a little Irish.

Afrikaners are generally speaking a mix of Dutch, German & French with smaller contributions from Italy, Portugal & UK. It's also not unusual for a little local blood (mostly Khoi who were a light skinned indigenous tribe) to be mixed into the equation. One reason this came about was because the original Dutch settlers were brought over to establish a trading post in the services of the Dutch East Indies company and didn't bring wives.

By the way, I'm sorry if anybody takes offense but the AWB are a bunch of idiots. The biggest challenge facing the Afrikaners in South Africa is that they are directionless and leaderless. They were sold out by traitors and incompetents in the last National Party Govt. and have therefore been on the backfoot ever since.

The AWB didn't amount to much more than a flight of fancy for its charismatic leader Eugene Terre'Blanche. (Apt surname huh? :D ) Unfortunately he's the Afrikaner version of Russia's Vladimir Zhirinovsky. A bit of an entertainer but not taken seriously by anyone.

Until the Afrikaners start re-organising and take a serious interest in helping one another (they are notorious for infighting) like they did in the years after the Anglo-Boer War, they'll be fighting a losing battle or packing for Perth or the UK.

Loki
Friday, November 4th, 2005, 09:05 PM
Afrikaners are generally speaking a mix of Dutch, German & French with smaller contributions from Italy, Portugal & UK.

Italian and Portuguese contributions were minimal, I'd say less than 0.1%. Greater contributions came from Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Switzerland, as can be seen in surviving surnames too.


It's also not unusual for a little local blood (mostly Khoi who were a light skinned indigenous tribe) to be mixed into the equation.

This is to be found in some families, but its prevalence is often grossly exaggerated by anti-racists who want to 'prove a point'. The majority of Afrikaners don't have such influence.

Sigurd
Friday, November 4th, 2005, 09:29 PM
For Afrikaners life used to be easy.

From what I've heard, nowadays under the "new" constitution, the last thing you want to be is a white South African.

Argonaut
Friday, November 4th, 2005, 09:37 PM
Afrikaners are generally speaking a mix of Dutch, German & French with smaller contributions from Italy, Portugal & UK. It's also not unusual for a little local blood (mostly Khoi who were a light skinned indigenous tribe) to be mixed into the equation. One reason this came about was because the original Dutch settlers were brought over to establish a trading post in the services of the Dutch East Indies company and didn't bring wives.

The French brought their wives with them. They had fled France with no hope of return. Coming to Africa was coming to a land that would have to be their homeland. In that sense, Lugan, the historian I cited, call the French Huguenots the first real 'White Africans'. Yet the Dutch were no long to become settlers, bringing wives and kids with them, attrated by land, an asset difficult to earn in small-sized Netherlands.The Afrikaners were farmers, living a family life with European wives. The Afrikaners always considered the Negroes as inferior, as born to be slaves, and in such a context one could not take a black woman for wife without being a hopeless marginal. The Afrikaner Church rejected this racial view only in the 1980s, due to international pressure. That international pressure has been utterly misdirected goes without saying.



The AWB didn't amount to much more than a flight of fancy for its charismatic leader Eugene Terre'Blanche. (Apt surname huh? :D )


I think it's his real name. He does what he can, in a hard situation.

Anyone knows Wouter Basson? A very interesting person.

Argonaut
Friday, November 4th, 2005, 09:46 PM
For Afrikaners life used to be easy.

From what I've heard, nowadays under the "new" constitution, the last thing you want to be is a white South African.

Alas! it's all but true. And now the Negro government (a zoo, I call this) wants to expropriate White farmers by force, like in Zimbabwe. In Zimbabwe, the Whites were a minority and they used to own 40% of the land, yes. What one forgets to mention is that they were responsible for 90% of the food supply. And the 60% of lands owned by Negroes produced only 10%. Now Zimbabwe has known its first famines since decades. What a surprise!

Sigurd
Friday, November 4th, 2005, 11:21 PM
Well, yeah if you get rid of the people who know how to grow stuff, and replace them by people who don't know anything about it, that's the logical consequence. Imagine replacing the professionals at Microsoft with my two brothers (6 and 7, no knowledge of PCs whatsoever). The whole thing would just go down the hill and nothing new good would become of it.

RoyBatty
Saturday, November 5th, 2005, 01:14 AM
Italian and Portuguese contributions were minimal, I'd say less than 0.1%. Greater contributions came from Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Switzerland, as can be seen in surviving surnames too.


One Portuguese example I can think of is the surname Feirrera which is an Afrikanerised version of Pereira if I'm not mistaken. True, there aren't many Italians but one of my instructors in the SADF was a guy from the West Coast with an Italian surname. Forgot what it was......



This is to be found in some families, but its prevalence is often grossly exaggerated by anti-racists who want to 'prove a point'. The majority of Afrikaners don't have such influence.

It varies a lot according to district but the lines certainly could get blurry. A couple of fellas I went to school with who were classed as "whites" under the old apartheid system had frizzy hair or were somewhat darker skinned than the norm. I agree that this isn't the case with the majority but it is more common than people realise.

RoyBatty
Saturday, November 5th, 2005, 01:32 AM
Yet the Dutch were no long to become settlers, bringing wives and kids with them, attrated by land, an asset difficult to earn in small-sized Netherlands.The Afrikaners were farmers, living a family life with European wives.

The Dutch used Cape Town to establish a trading post. Many of the East Indies Company people didn't bring women as the original intention was not to start up a colony but to replenish ships on the Eastern trade routes. A lot of intermingling with the local tribes took place and the results are still very much to be seen in the Cape and elsewhere. Keep in mind that these tribes weren't "black" but similar to native South Americans in skintone.



I think it's his real name. He does what he can, in a hard situation.


Eugene is an interesting character but he's not a serious contender and never really was. He had a little support from a couple of pumped up white farmers and mineworkers. Probably his greatest moments were the AWB rallies which were copied straight out of German pre WW2 newsreels. He could do a pretty
decent impersonation of Adolf Hitler and had the ability to whip the peanut gallery into a frenzy. Great stuff. Unfortunately it was all show & talk and not much action barring a couple of bombings, the storming of the World Trade Centre in Kempton Park and a disastrous misadventure in one of the black homelands which ended in tears.



Anyone knows Wouter Basson? A very interesting person.

He was supposedly involved in many of the former Govt's covert biological & chemical weapons programs. Not many people know exactly what they were up to in those days but whatever it was, it seems to have been pretty impressive. The guy is super intelligent and highly capable.


PS
The "apt surname" quote refers to the fact that Terre Blanche is french for "White Earth." It is also his real surname and is commonly found in SA.

Argonaut
Saturday, November 5th, 2005, 01:41 PM
One Portuguese example I can think of is the surname Feirrera which is an Afrikanerised version of Pereira if I'm not mistaken. True, there aren't many Italians but one of my instructors in the SADF was a guy from the West Coast with an Italian surname. Forgot what it was......

It varies a lot according to district but the lines certainly could get blurry. A couple of fellas I went to school with who were classed as "whites" under the old apartheid system had frizzy hair or were somewhat darker skinned than the norm. I agree that this isn't the case with the majority but it is more common than people realise.

I think you're talking about Jews here. The Jews are numerous in South Africa, yet they were not distinguished from the White majority, in spite of the efforts of the Golden Shirts in the 30s and other anti-Semitic parties in South Africa.

A rich Portuguese-Jewish family who settled in France in XIXth century was called Pereira (or Péreire, after it was 'francized'). So the frizzy dark you're talking about may well be Jews and have nothing to see with intermixing with the Xhoisa, as you believe. This intermixing remained a marginal phenomenon.

As to Terre-Blanche, I thought you said it was an apt 'nickname'. Forgive my confusion.

Wouter Basson is a mastermind. One sentence I will never forget. During his trials, once he was asked: "Why did you do that?" He replied: "I wanted to have something to say to my little daughter when she would ask me: 'Dad, what did you do to prevent THIS?" He's a great man.

Loki
Saturday, November 5th, 2005, 01:52 PM
This is nonsense, the Ferreira family is not Jewish, and never was. This is the only Portuguese surname I know which is found among Afrikaners. And their offspring are mostly blond and redhead, from what I can see. Here is Wayne Ferreira, the South African tennis star:

http://www.advantage-tennis.com/ferreira/IMG_3652.jpg

http://www.advantage-tennis.com/ferreira/IMG_3657.jpg

He looks quite Nordish to me.

RoyBatty
Saturday, November 5th, 2005, 02:03 PM
Interesting Argonaut - the origins of peoples is quite a topic and I'm not familiar with the Jewish Pereiras. There are some Jews in Afrikanerdom and they're known in localspeak as the "Boerejode". (Afrikaner Boers / Farmers)
Nowadays many have converted to being "English" speakers.

Regarding Wouter, I believe he is once again being put on trial by the ANC Govt. despite the fact that he's been acquitted many times. They are seemingly hellbent on persecuting a "bogeyman" and Wouter apparently fits the bill. He may or may not have been involved in poisoning (using very sophisticated toxins) incidents involving a couple of ANC stalwarts.

The previous National Party Govt. (a collection of incompetent White traitors) were also very keen on scapegoating Basson in order to divert pressure for irregular activities from themselves.

Argonaut
Wednesday, November 9th, 2005, 05:55 PM
This is nonsense, the Ferreira family is not Jewish, and never was. This is the only Portuguese surname I know which is found among Afrikaners. And their offspring are mostly blond and redhead, from what I can see. Here is Wayne Ferreira, the South African tennis star:

He looks quite Nordish to me.

It was just a supposition, based on prominent French-Portuguese Jews named Pereira. I had never heard of these South-African Pereiras. The tennisman does not look like the average Jew, I admit, not to the average Portuguese by the way.


There are some Jews in Afrikanerdom and they're known in localspeak as the "Boerejode". (Afrikaner Boers / Farmers)
Nowadays many have converted to being "English" speakers.

Does Boerejode mean Boer Jews? Boers are farmers, and Jews don't work on land outside of Israel; it is against their religion.

Loki
Wednesday, November 9th, 2005, 06:35 PM
It was just a supposition, based on prominent French-Portuguese Jews named Pereira. I had never heard of these South-African Pereiras. The tennisman does not look like the average Jew, I admit, not to the average Portuguese by the way.

LOL, well I can assure you that South African Ferreiras are NOT Jews. If you believe they are, you are idiotic, to be blunt.




Does Boerejode mean Boer Jews? Boers are farmers, and Jews don't work on land outside of Israel; it is against their religion.

I see you have significant ignorance on many issues. Are you American by any chance?

RoyBatty
Thursday, November 10th, 2005, 10:57 PM
Does Boerejode mean Boer Jews? Boers are farmers, and Jews don't work on land outside of Israel; it is against their religion.

Hmmmm, I don't agree with this statement at all. You are making a generalising sweeping statement about which I have serious doubts as to its accuracy.

Afrikaners are often referred to as "Boere" whether they are farmers or not. This is sometimes in jest, sometimes in earnest and is sometimes used as a derogatory term in the same way that whites sometimes call blacks "Kaffirs" in South Africa.

The term "Boerejood" doesn't imply the person to be a "farmer", the implication is that the person is a predominantly Afrikaans speaking Jew.

Æmeric
Friday, November 11th, 2005, 02:47 AM
Does Boerejode mean Boer Jews? Boers are farmers, and Jews don't work on land outside of Israel; it is against their religion.

Actually there are or were Jewish farmers in the United States. Most were dairy farmers who provided kosher dairy products for the overwhelming majority of Jews who were urban dwellers. The largest concentration of Jewish farmers was/is in Ulster & Sullivan Counties, New York. This is the Catskill Mountain area which was famous for Jewish resorts & summer camps. The famous Woodstock Music Festival of August ,1969, took place on the dairy farm of Jewish farmer Max Yasgur.

Erzherzog_Bernd
Friday, November 11th, 2005, 03:38 AM
Actually there are or were Jewish farmers in the United States. Most were dairy farmers who provided kosher dairy products for the overwhelming majority of Jews who were urban dwellers. The largest concentration of Jewish farmers was/is in Ulster & Sullivan Counties, New York. This is the Catskill Mountain area which was famous for Jewish resorts & summer camps. The famous Woodstock Music Festival of August ,1969, took place on the dairy farm of Jewish farmer Max Yasgur.

Yea but like he said, "outside of Israel is against their religion"... :P

I would think that perhaps the term "Boerjood" would mean a coniving, thieving Boer. But let's go back firstly to the statement of "All Afrikaners are called Boere", this is true in most cases, since the majority of the "Boer's" family was Farmers when they first came here. But on other occassions I would think that people tend to actually think of them as different people, you have your "Boere", "Afrikaners" and "Engels manne"(English men), just to have a few. Though the Afrikaner and the Boer in all actuality is pretty much the same. I think in that regards it's perhaps a question of loyalty in the past. If you look at South Africa's history you would see that the Afrikaans speaking people didn't always stand together on issues, especially when it involved their English oppressors.

Some were more then happy to fight along side the English in both World War One and World War Two, and the rest saw the Germans as their means to get rid of the English. That's why they made agreements with the German citizens in German South-West and eventually with the Kaiser!, and that's why they started up support groups for the Germans during the Second World War. If Germany won and the English lost its colonies, the Boer/Afrikaner was free again.

The Boer is pretty much most cases is independent of the "Afrikaner". It's a similar language, perhaps even a culture. However the Boer saw the "Afrikaners" as being too "pro-English" as pointed out above, though you get your "traitors"(If I can call them that) in pretty much every nation. With that in mind the White Afrikaner(Afrikaans speaking people) is alike to the "Boer" but not too much :)

As for "Boerjood", I don't know if it is a thing of a "Afrikaans speaking Kike", I think perhaps it is in connection with "jewish" traits in general like pointed out in my first sentences. Stealing from their own kind, lying, manipulating etc etc So perhaps a derogatory term for "Boere" of similar traits. :scratch: :scratch:

What do you lot think?

RoyBatty
Friday, November 11th, 2005, 07:07 AM
Some were more then happy to fight along side the English in both World War One and World War Two, and the rest saw the Germans as their means to get rid of the English. That's why they made agreements with the German citizens in German South-West and eventually with the Kaiser!, and that's why they started up support groups for the Germans during the Second World War. If Germany won and the English lost its colonies, the Boer/Afrikaner was free again.

There's some interesting history. As you mention there were quite a few traitors, known in localspeak as "hensoppers" (which is an an Afrikaner slangterm derived from English for those who put their "hands up" very easily) and "joiners". The implied meaning was that they were quick to surrender or join sides with the Brits during the Anglo Boer War.

The Cape was by then a British Colony and if the Brits caught any of the Cape Afrikaners fighting on the side of their cousins from the Boer Republics of the Orange Free State and the Transvaal, they summarily executed them as "traitors" or "rebels". Many Cape Afrikaners were pressganged against their will into service for the British Army to provide logistical support.

It's therefore not surprising why there was a large degree of Afrikaner sympathy for Germany during the Great War and WW2. There are ethnic German family ties and Kaiser Wilhelm II supported them against the Brits during the Anglo-Boer War. One interesting story I heard is that Afrikaans farmers in the Southern Cape were actively engaged in refuelling and resupplying German submarines which were operating off the Cape and the Indian Ocean around Mozambique.

As for being "free" after the Anglo-Boer War, there was more to this than meets the eye. The Brits had a hard and expensive time winning this war and decided that they could ill afford getting bogged down in future skirmishes and local unrest. They therefore decided to be quite generous in the aftermath and gave the Afrikaners a fair amount of autonomy and favourable terms. In a way they won the war but lost the peace! :D This action was probably the main reason why there was little enthusiasm amongst the "Boer" mainstream to become involved in serious future conflicts with the Empire though there was still a lot of individual resentment over the deaths of 10's of thousands of their women, children and elderly in Milner and Kitchener's death camps.

Here's a little reading on the "Boerejood" discussion.

http://rapidttp.com/milhist/vol102ds.html