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anonymaus
Saturday, October 8th, 2005, 10:46 PM
Original: http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20051006/sc_space/submissivecanadiansefficientgermansyeahr ight;_ylt=AvmhGfBNW.BKKOccyOn6.r2s0NUE;_ ylu=X3oDMTA3ODdxdHBhBHNlYwM5NjQ-


Submissive Canadians? Efficient Germans? Yeah, Right

Ker Than, LiveScience Staff Writer
LiveScience.com Thu Oct 6

Americans are assertive, Italians are very passionate, and Germans are the picture of efficiency.

Right?

Such national stereotypes are common, but they are highly mistaken, a new study shows.

There's an old joke that goes something like this: How do you get three Canadians out of a swimming pool? The answer: You ask them. "Meaning they'll do what they're told," says researcher Robert McCrae, a psychologist at the National Institute of Aging.

Yet the stereotypes of Americans as assertive and Canadians as submissive are illusions, McCrae said. Both groups scored almost identically on measures of assertiveness in the study.

Another stereotype that was debunked was that of Czechs being antagonistic and disagreeable. Not only was this how other groups described Czechs, it was how Czechs describe themselves. Yet in the study by McCrae and his colleagues, Czechs scored higher on altruism and modesty than most people from other countries.

We don't even know ourselves

In the study, nearly 4,000 people from 49 cultures were given surveys and asked to describe a typical member of their own culture.

The surveys measured five criteria that many psychologists believe are accurate measures of an individual's personality:

* How outgoing someone is (extroversion),
* How cooperative and altruistic they are (agreeableness),
* Whether they're disciplined and structured (conscientiousness),
* How often they experience negative emotions like anxiety or sadness (neuroticism),
* How open they are to new ideas and experiences (open-mindedness).

When the reports were compared to another survey that asked participants to rate themselves and people they knew who were of the same nationality, the two reports didn't match.

"It seems likely to me that if those are incorrect—if you don't even know the people you live among are like—it isn't likely that your stereotypes [of other groups] are going to be correct," McCrae said.

The research is detailed in the Oct. 7 issue of the journal Science.

Imaginary differences

Past studies have shown that the stereotypes one group has about another generally agreed with the stereotypes people within that group harbor about themselves. For example, Germans think of themselves in ways that are similar to what the Italian, French and British think of Germans.

But if what Germans think of themselves is not an accurate measure of reality, as the current study shows, presumably what the French think of the Germans is also not trustworthy, McCrae said. "Both groups create differences that are essentially imaginary."

"National stereotypes can provide some information about a culture, but they do not describe people," McCrae said.

Instead, the researchers suggest that national stereotypes are social constructs that emerge from the historical experiences of a people, their mythology, literature, social values and policy.

Different groups can also use negative stereotypes to discriminate against one another. History is filled with tragic examples of this, such as the Holocaust and the roundup of Japanese-Americans during World War II.

National stereotypes can be damaging for another reason, McCrae said.

"Wherever it is we get these stereotypes, once we have them we're biased in the way we evaluate our experiences. So if you meet a very assertive Canadian, you say 'Oh, he's an exception,' and you simply discount any information that conflicts with the stereotype."

The first step toward overcoming national stereotypes is to acknowledge that they are stereotypes and that they are pretty much unfounded, McCrae said. "That's not really a new message but it's one we need to keep being reminded of."

anonymaus
Saturday, October 8th, 2005, 10:48 PM
:shrugani:

Blondie
Saturday, October 8th, 2005, 11:28 PM
There are always stereotypes for different races and sub-races. I don't think this will end anytime soon.

Loki
Saturday, October 8th, 2005, 11:31 PM
There are always stereotypes for different races and sub-races...

... and genders. ;)

Blondie
Saturday, October 8th, 2005, 11:56 PM
Yeah, that too, unfortunately...

I remember I once knew someone whose grandmother said the following statement: "Scandinavian girls are scarlets." Grrrr.

Loki
Saturday, October 8th, 2005, 11:57 PM
Yeah, that too, unfortunately...

I remember I once knew someone whose grandmother said the following statement: "Scandinavian girls are scarlets." Grrrr.

What does this mean?

Sorry anon for being offtopic

Blondie
Sunday, October 9th, 2005, 12:01 AM
What does this mean?

Sorry anon for being offtopic
It means they sleep around, they're sluts.

Loki
Sunday, October 9th, 2005, 12:08 AM
It means they sleep around, they're sluts.

Well, first of all, the Scandinavian stereotype of pornographically-minded sluttish women is simply not true. They are not more promiscuous than most other Western nations.

Secondly, one should not apply American Christian-fundamentalist sexual standards to any European culture. Europe is just different. Sex before marriage is nothing strange, for example. But in America this is still frowned upon by the establishment.

Blondie
Sunday, October 9th, 2005, 12:24 AM
I'm not saying I believe it, I'm just saying what she said.

:)

Loki
Sunday, October 9th, 2005, 12:25 AM
I'm not saying I believe it, I'm just saying what she said.

:)

Yes, that's how I understood you. :)

I know you are smarter than that. ;)

lei.talk
Sunday, October 9th, 2005, 12:28 AM
Europe is just different.
Sex before marriage is nothing strange, for example.are the biblical exhortations
regarding pre-marital sex

interpreted differently in europe

or ignored?

RedJack
Sunday, October 9th, 2005, 01:22 AM
The really ironic part about the original post is McRae thinking that the results of his survey prove anything at all. He surveys 4000 people and then claims that he has established some sort of scientific proof? :scratch:

Nordgau
Sunday, October 9th, 2005, 02:13 AM
are the biblical exhortations
regarding pre-marital sex

interpreted differently in europe

or ignored?

Latter. I come from a rural part of Catholic and "ultra-conservative" Bavaria. But, really, nobody cares about the "biblical exhortations regarding pre-marital sex".

Even in allegedly "ultra conservative" areas and milieus, religion seems to be at all events something rather weak and faded, compared to its strength and importance for everyday life culture and mentality in America (or, at least, Red America).

Also a phenomenon like "creationism" practically doesn't exist here. It has neither popularity nor reception; one doesn't here of anyone calling himself a "creationist", it is something one here's only in news from behind the Atlantic. The archbishop of Vienna, who was in the media a few weeks ago because of his sympathy for creationism--which he significantly expressed in an article in the "New York Times"--stands on a very lonely sentry.

A traditional Mediterranean-kind of Catholicism in Spain or Italy may be of course still more vital than Christianity is here ...

I remember a longer report in a magazine on a bestseller a sexmaniac girl from Sicily wrote, which was her real life sex biography and which shocked Italy. It was said there, however, that she, and many like-minded of her generation, used to exercise only anal intercourse because of last feelings of reservation to violate the church's command of no pre-marital coition.--This falls under "interpreted differently", I guess. :coffee:

Nordhammer
Sunday, October 9th, 2005, 09:25 AM
The really ironic part about the original post is McRae thinking that the results of his survey prove anything at all. He surveys 4000 people and then claims that he has established some sort of scientific proof? :scratch:

As well as forming a stereotype about stereotyping. :)

Of course here's the real agenda of the study and article:

"Different groups can also use negative stereotypes to discriminate against one another. History is filled with tragic examples of this, such as the Holocaust and the roundup of Japanese-Americans during World War II."

So we must only think of people as individuals and never think of races or groups, to do so is prejudiced and a sin! It can even lead to genocide and concentration camps!

Loki
Sunday, October 9th, 2005, 11:47 AM
are the biblical exhortations
regarding pre-marital sex

interpreted differently in europe

or ignored?

See Nordgau's post, for the situation in Germany. In England, things are no different. Churches are places that elderly people go to - most young people (I'd say below 50, perhaps) have no interest in the church, and also don't know much about the Bible either. It just isn't important in European life anymore. At least in Northwestern Europe, I can say that practising Christianity is practically dead; when the older generation die, the traditional churches will be completely empty.

Loki
Sunday, October 9th, 2005, 11:49 AM
In England, school children are even taught openly about safe sex and how to satisfy their partners. I'm talking teenagers here...

Northern Paladin
Sunday, October 9th, 2005, 08:13 PM
Christianity is indeed in the age of decline. The simply truths of yesterday have become the supersitions of old.

Aor
Sunday, October 9th, 2005, 08:30 PM
As well as forming a stereotype about stereotyping. :)

Of course here's the real agenda of the study and article:

"Different groups can also use negative stereotypes to discriminate against one another. History is filled with tragic examples of this, such as the Holocaust and the roundup of Japanese-Americans during World War II."

So we must only think of people as individuals and never think of races or groups, to do so is prejudiced and a sin! It can even lead to genocide and concentration camps!

I was about to say that, while some prejudices may be bollocks, you certainly can't say they're all stupid. If you look behind the drama, many state the truth quite accurately.

Æmeric
Sunday, October 9th, 2005, 08:57 PM
At least in Northwestern Europe, I can say that practising Christianity is practically dead; when the older generation die, the traditional churches will be completely empty.

I think its likely that those churches will become mosques. And attendance may be mandatory.

Nordhammer
Sunday, October 9th, 2005, 09:54 PM
Christianity is indeed in the age of decline. The simply truths of yesterday have become the supersitions of old.

Not just Christianity, but all of our traditional values. The new religion is diversity and submission to Jews.

Sexual perversion is increasing and the targets of sexuality becoming younger:


Laurie Taylor found SHOCKING, sexual explicit books in her elementary and middle school libraries at Fayetteville, Arkansas - books encouraging pornography, masturbation, and sexual experimentation. The three books are: It's Perfectly Normal for 3rd to 6th grade and It's So Amazing for 2nd through 5th both written by Robie Harris and The Teenage Guys Survival Guide for 9-12 by Jeremy Daldry. Psychologist Dr. Warren Throckmorton reviewed It's Perfectly Normal and the other two books found in Fayetteville, Arkansas library at her request. He says some of the materials may actually be illegal, considering that they urge children to use pornography. Below is the link to six of the pictures found in these books. We regret having to post them but evil today is so ugly that opponents can't even bring it out in the open publicly by the media.

http://www.wpaag.org/Books%20-%20Pornogrphic%20Sch.%20Library%20Pictur es.htm

And then you have sick organizations such as NAMBLA that say opposing pedophilia is oppressive.

http://216.220.97.17/

Luh_Windan
Monday, October 10th, 2005, 03:21 AM
So we must only think of people as individuals and never think of races or groups, to do so is prejudiced and a sin! It can even lead to genocide and concentration camps!
No, the study recommends disregarding group steretypes generally, but did not suggest group categorisation is wrong in itself. Indeed, operating without stereotypes is key to a proper understanding of group dynamics.

Nordhammer
Monday, October 10th, 2005, 07:24 PM
Time to make use of the ignore list. :D

Luh_Windan
Monday, October 10th, 2005, 10:02 PM
Ah, the pitiable tactics of those who find themselves on so many of life's little 'ignore lists'...

Nordhammer
Tuesday, October 11th, 2005, 01:13 AM
Hmm... I don't like the implementation of ignore on this, I still have the displeasure of seeing your name and post listing.

Heidenlord
Tuesday, October 11th, 2005, 03:06 AM
In England, school children are even taught openly about safe sex and how to satisfy their partners. I'm talking teenagers here...

I'm not so sure that is a good thing, considering they have replaced Christianity with a faith in multiculturalism and sexual represiveness with sexual degeneracy.

Also, I wouldn't say that Christianity is behind sexual mores. I seem to remember that the concept of "damaged goods" predates Christianity and is prevalent in many cultures especially our ancient culture.

I may be American and I may like my morality more than the average European, but I think that the pornification of our society is a major key to understanding all the interracial nonsense that bothers us so.

Also there should be a respect for the sanctity of the Aryan womb. The source of our creation shouldn't be like the old joke about the doorknob (gets more turns than a doorknob). I, for one, am proud of the fact that my mom didn't have to sleep with 100 different guys of different hues and shapes until she finally found her ideal sexual partner. I am proud that I am neither a bastard nor a son of a whore. You may label this as diseased christian morality, but I have a hard time believing a Viking lord would of taken a harlot for a wife.

Arcturus
Tuesday, October 11th, 2005, 11:25 AM
Although this thread has gone off topic...

The state society is in these days I'd say sex-ed is a must. Without it we get scenarios filled with myth and half-truths as for example the "sexually transmitted diseases can't transmit via oral sex"-idea etc etc etc.

Here's (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050923/hl_afp/estoniahealthaidswho_050923153307
) a frightening example.

I personally detest the "holier-than-thou" mentality of american christians and moralists, but to each his own; whatever gets you through the night.:coffee:

Heidenlord
Tuesday, October 11th, 2005, 02:20 PM
Arcturus. It seems the problem is Estonia is IV drug-users, and not a lack of sexual education.

anawana
Thursday, December 16th, 2010, 08:28 PM
Not just Christianity, but all of our traditional values. The new religion is diversity and submission to Jews.

Sexual perversion is increasing and the targets of sexuality becoming younger:



And then you have sick organizations such as NAMBLA that say opposing pedophilia is oppressive.

http://216.220.97.17/

The pictures themselves are no more shocking or graphic than anything else i've seen in a book that discussing things of a sexual nature with children. Its the captions and text alongside the pictures that is shocking and licentious. "Jello?":(