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cosmocreator
Tuesday, January 20th, 2004, 07:11 AM
SNPA says that Tronder is a mix of Nordic and Brunn. I've been think that Tronder is actually a mix of Atlanto-Med and Brunn. Anyone have any thoughts?

Loki
Tuesday, January 20th, 2004, 08:12 AM
SNPA says that Tronder is a mix of Nordic and Brunn. I've been think that Tronder is actually a mix of Atlanto-Med and Brunn. Anyone have any thoughts?

Can't be to my thinking, because Atlanto-Meds never penetrated so far to the northeast in the regions of Sweden and Norway where the Tronder type is to be found. The element responsible for the admixture has to be Upper Paleolithic remnants in the far north, i.e. "Brunn".

cosmocreator
Tuesday, January 20th, 2004, 08:16 AM
Can't be to my thinking, because Atlanto-Meds never penetrated so far to the northeast in the regions of Sweden and Norway where the Tronder type is to be found. The element responsible for the admixture has to be Upper Paleolithic remnants in the far north, i.e. "Brunn".


It's the Frontal Bossa that seem to be shared with Atlanto-Meds and Tronder that make me think that. Both have long narrow faces. I should think about it more and compare similarities.

Jethro Tull
Tuesday, January 20th, 2004, 08:18 AM
Loki, and what about the Keltic Nordics? Don't you think they're Dinarics + Brunn?

cosmocreator
Tuesday, January 20th, 2004, 08:23 AM
Can't be to my thinking, because Atlanto-Meds never penetrated so far to the northeast in the regions of Sweden and Norway where the Tronder type is to be found. The element responsible for the admixture has to be Upper Paleolithic remnants in the far north, i.e. "Brunn".

I just compared the measurements of the three. I really do think Tronder is Atlanto-Med/Brunn mix.

Frans_Jozef
Tuesday, January 20th, 2004, 09:25 AM
There is more on Troender in my thread *Scandinavian Ethno-archaeology*:

http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=73900#post73900

Agrippa
Tuesday, January 20th, 2004, 09:37 AM
There was some Atlantid penetration so far in the North and maybe it played a role but I doubt the major one.

Maybe Troender is a stabilized mixture of more than 2 races with Nordid dominating.

I personnally consider them as a Nordid subtype in the narrower sence of Nordid. (like Hallstatt, Troender, Keltic/Anglo Saxon and corded/Eastnordid)

In the wider sence I consider Dalofaelid and probably Bruenn as Nordic.

Awar
Tuesday, January 20th, 2004, 10:33 AM
My measurements and features are somewhat similar to Tronders.
Perhaps it's because of the mixture of similar ingredients happening in different places in Europe.

Cosmo could be right about the ingredients in Tronders.

Awar
Tuesday, January 20th, 2004, 10:34 AM
Description:

The Trønder is a variable racial strain, ranging in type from large, Irish-looking Brünn individuals and tall, slender Battle-Axe survivors, to almost completely Nordic populations. This range is well represented throughout the population of western and central Norway - the Trønder homeland - from out which wandered the hordes of Vikings who came to settle parts of Iceland, Scotland, and northeastern England more than a thousand years ago, leaving an important racial imprint abroad.

The two central Norwegian Trøndelag provinces, Nord- and Sør-Trøndelag, form the northern geographical extreme of the Trønder type, which is mostly Nordic and very high-vaulted, most probably due to the presence of a strong Battle-Axe strain. This type is concentrated in the valley of Orkdal in Sør-Trøndelag, and predominates north of the Dovre mountains from Nordmøre eastward into Sweden (Jämtland). The western Norwegian inland contains a similar population, albeit one in which the Brünn element is much stronger and the Battle-Axe strain is at times negligible. One exeption to this western rule is the population of Hardanger, which is strikingly long-headed, and which seems to be of predominantly Battle-Axe and Nordic type. In this Hardanger type the Brünn strain is more masked.

The Trønder is the tallest of the Norwegian racial types, which also makes it one of Europe's tallest. It is a slender type, although not as slender as the local Hallstatt Nordic, and its bones are larger and heavier than what is typically Nordic. Due to a strong sexual dimorphism, Trønder females are seldom correspondingly big-boned. The head form is high mesocephalic (c.i. typically 78-80; with the exeption of the Hardanger type, which is dolicho-mesocephalic), and the face is of considerable length. The forehead is very high, and at the same time both broader and much less sloping than that of the Hallstatt Nordic. Frontal bosses, a non-Nordic trait, are frequently found, and the temporal region is much fuller. In addition, the transitions from frontal to temporal and frontal to parietal regions are smooth and difficult to find, whereas on the Nordic head they are clearly marked.

The nose is typically straight or convex, with a wide display of wavy forms (the Hardanger type is, for instance, frequently convex-nosed), and the transition between bone and cartilage is difficult to locate without palpation (feeling with the fingers), another feature which serves to distinguish the general Trønder type from the local Nordic.

The zygomatic arches of the Trønder type are less prominent than those of the Hallstatt Nordic, and the gonial angles are compressed and not visible. The skull is more rounded and the occiput less prominently curved than that of the Nordic type.

The Trønder is one of the world's bluest-eyed racial types - light-mixed blue is the predominant eye color. The hair is wavy and ranges in color from brown to golden blond. Rufosity is common, whereas ash-blond shades, a typical Hallstatt Nordic trait, are rarer. The skin is coarser in texture and tougher than regular Nordic skin, and the hair is more abundant on beard and body.

Glenlivet
Tuesday, January 20th, 2004, 11:30 AM
Lundman put the very tall Trönder in an East-Nordid racial tree. The other East-Nordid type is supposed to be Aistin, which is thought to be frequent in SW Finland and W Estonia. Both are put there merely because of their higher skull. I suspect that SNPA is pointing to Aistin with trans-Baltic Trønder approximation, under its Related Types, in the Trønder category.

It is said that Trönder in Hälsingland and Eastern Uppland approximate Aistin, whereas it has a stronger element of Coon's Brünn in Norway.

Trönder is the same as Flodström's Sveatyp, which is thought to be the most frequent Nordid type in Germany (the North-west has Götatyp too), but England has more Götatyp.

Trönder is a variation of the Nordid type, alongside Götatyp (common in SE Norway and the neighbouring region of SW Sweden), with its sub-race Västmanlandstyp.

I shall only translate the part of Lundman's outline regarding the Trönder type in "Nordens Rastyper" about the Nordid race in Scandinavia. I will leave the description about Götatypen and Västmanlandstypen blank.

Original text in Swedish:

Rasöversikt. Nordens nuvarande folkstockar.

A. "Stornordiska huvudrasen": kännetecken ovan angivna. Två undertyper:

a) Götatypen:

b) Tröndetypen: Ögon mer gråblå, något högre huvud (HLI c. 71-72). Pannan något brantare och bredare samt mer rundad å sidorna. Utbredning: Nordanfjällska Norge samt Sverige framför allt mellan Ångermanälven och Dalälven; Åland m. m.

B. Underras: Västmanlandstypen:

Translated from Swedish to English:

Racial Outline. The Nordic countries present folk stocks.

A. "The Greater Nordic main race" : distinguishing features stated above. Two sub-types:

a) Götatypen

b) Tröndetypen: Eyes more grey-blue, somewhat higher head (HLI 71-72). The forehead somewhat steeper and broader and more rounded on the sides. Distribution: Northern mountains of Norway and Sweden above all between Ångermanälven och Dalälven; Åland m. m.

B. Sub-race: Västmanlandstypen

Euclides
Wednesday, January 21st, 2004, 02:21 PM
[QUOTE=AWAR]Description:

The Trønder is a variable racial strain, ranging in type from large, Irish-looking Brünn individuals and tall, slender Battle-Axe survivors, to almost completely Nordic populations. This range is well represented throughout the population of western and central Norway - the Trønder homeland - from out which wandered the hordes of Vikings who came to settle parts of Iceland, Scotland, and northeastern England more than a thousand years ago, leaving an important racial imprint abroad.

QUOTE]


Is Tronder the same as Fallish? ( both are Brunn + Battle-Axe Hallstatt Nordic )

Agrippa
Wednesday, January 21st, 2004, 02:40 PM
[QUOTE=AWAR]Description:

The Trønder is a variable racial strain, ranging in type from large, Irish-looking Brünn individuals and tall, slender Battle-Axe survivors, to almost completely Nordic populations. This range is well represented throughout the population of western and central Norway - the Trønder homeland - from out which wandered the hordes of Vikings who came to settle parts of Iceland, Scotland, and northeastern England more than a thousand years ago, leaving an important racial imprint abroad.

QUOTE]


Is Tronder the same as Fallish? ( both are Brunn + Battle-Axe Hallstatt Nordic )

My guess is that Troender is just a "light version" of Faelid with a stronger domination of Nordid over Bruenn/Borreby (North Alpine)

Milesian
Wednesday, January 21st, 2004, 02:43 PM
Is Tronder the same as Fallish? ( both are Brunn + Battle-Axe Hallstatt Nordic )

Isn't Anglo-Saxon a Brunn/Hallstatt mix with some Battle-Axe influence as well?

Triglav
Wednesday, January 21st, 2004, 03:43 PM
Isn't Anglo-Saxon a Brunn/Hallstatt mix with some Battle-Axe influence as well?

A good question. Often Hallstatt is said to ba a gracile A-S variant, but where does the latter stem from?

Loki
Wednesday, January 21st, 2004, 06:45 PM
Loki, and what about the Keltic Nordics? Don't you think they're Dinarics + Brunn?

No, because Keltic Nordics are long-headed. The most distinguishable feature of Dinarid influence is a high cephalic index.

Awar
Wednesday, January 21st, 2004, 08:59 PM
I don't know almost anything about the genesis of the Tronders, that's why I'm very interested in more info.

Frans_Jozef
Thursday, January 22nd, 2004, 11:05 AM
I don't know almost anything about the genesis of the Tronders, that's why I'm very interested in more info.

The Troender type is perhaps much more wide-spread over Western Europe than usually acknowledge, as a matter of fact Troender, Anglo-Saxon and other higher vaulted, rugged-boned Nordids can be conceived as localized survivals of the primary Nordids fully in development but somehow stuck in the process, which explains the *Bruenn* component.
The Avigny type is probably the southern counterpart of Troender:

http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=3641

http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=7507

On account of the BA comes its stabilizing effect on Troender.

Phill
Thursday, January 22nd, 2004, 07:59 PM
Is Tronder the same as Fallish? ( both are Brunn + Battle-Axe Hallstatt Nordic )

According to Nordish.com, Falish is Borreby and Halstatt nordic mixture.

Tronder is described as Halstatt and Brunn mixture, mainly.

Anglo-Saxon seems to be Halstatt with some brunn, and a little bit of borreby that "are of some importance."

cosmocreator
Thursday, January 22nd, 2004, 08:00 PM
According to Nordish.com, Falish is Borreby and Halstatt nordic mixture.

Tronder is described as Halstatt and Brunn mixture, mainly.

Anglo-Saxon seems to be Halstatt with some brunn, and a little bit of borreby that "are of some importance."


I think that site is outdated.

Phill
Thursday, January 22nd, 2004, 08:20 PM
I think that site is outdated.

*Shrugs*

Just my luck. It's hard trying to put all this stuff together when there's obstacles like this in the way.

Would anyone mind pointing out some more sites i could use for information?

cosmocreator
Thursday, January 13th, 2005, 10:09 AM
Another model. I can see the frontal bossa on her forehead.

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2951&stc=1
http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2952&stc=1
http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2953&stc=1

Naggaroth
Thursday, January 13th, 2005, 02:34 PM
It is possible that I'm stupid, but what is tronder type and bossa?
As I said. I do perhaps not know all words in norwegian or swedish or english, but that is why I'm askin so that you clever guys can give me something that I can learn.
Yet I do have to say that this girl is pretty.

Axelrod
Thursday, January 13th, 2005, 03:06 PM
I think she could be corded as well, only as far as i know the passage from the frontal head to sides are clearly determined with nordic(corded and halstatt) and she seems to lack the dimension there. very beautiful girl indeed. I am also interested in what is meant by frontal bossa, I am assuming its the low sloped curve the forehead makes that cedes over the nasal root.

Väring
Thursday, January 13th, 2005, 06:36 PM
It is possible that I'm stupid, but what is tronder type and bossa?
As I said. I do perhaps not know all words in norwegian or swedish or english, but that is why I'm askin so that you clever guys can give me something that I can learn.

I don't know if it is the same in Norwegian, but frontal bossa is "ögonbrynsbågar" in Swedish. If i am correct it is the bony part on the forehead, just above the eye brows.

WHiTE
Thursday, January 13th, 2005, 06:54 PM
She is so extremely beautiful!

cosmocreator
Thursday, January 13th, 2005, 07:28 PM
It is also spelled Frontal Bosses. It is "bumps" on the forehead just above each eye brow.

Tronder:
http://www.snpa.skadi.net/rg-tronder.htm

K.Falk
Thursday, January 20th, 2005, 09:50 PM
Im confused. Look at picture no. 8 from Lundman´s "Dala-Allmogens Antropologi", which is describes as Trönder.

What makes him not Fälisch?

http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=8740&highlight=G%F6tatyp

Edwin
Sunday, January 23rd, 2005, 09:37 AM
I just compared the measurements of the three. I really do think Tronder is Atlanto-Med/Brunn mix.

Strange that I should have discovered this thread right after starting this one -

http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=30332

I really have no idea. :oanieyes

Väring
Saturday, February 5th, 2005, 09:56 AM
I. Nordrasen(enligt senare undersökningar egentligen sammanfattning av en hel grupp närstående typer: storvuxen f. n. 177-180 cm. i medeltal för män; kvinnor i medeltal nära 12 cm. kortare); smärt med långa ben men korta armar; långskallig (BLI i medeltal c. 74-75 för män, kvinnorna c. en enhet högre) med smal panna och smal ovalt men kraftigt utmodellerat ansikte med lutande profil (A I i medeltal 90-95 hos män c. 2,5 enheter lägre hos kvinnor). Näsan rak eller ofta svagt konkav hos kvinnorna, hos männen rak, ibland svagt konkav men sällan mycket svagt konvex, på insidan särskilt upptill, mycket svagt åsade öron. Ögonen blå till blågrå, rätt glänsande. Håret oftast askblondt ibland dock övergående till kastanjebrunt eller lingult (som hos alla raser blir hårfärgen mörkare med åren) dessutom mjukt och ofta något litet vågigt. Skär hy. Huvudutbredning i nutiden från Östersjöprovinserna til Brittiska öarna och från Nordnorge til mellersta Tyskland (där dock mest väster om Elbe) och nordligaste Frankrike. Inom vårt område kan nordrasen preliminärt indelas på följande sätt:

A. "Stornordiska huvudrasen": kännetecken ovan angivna. Två undertyper:

b) Tröndetypen: Ögon mer gråblå, något högre huvud (HLI c. 71-72). Pannan något brantare och bredare samt mer rundad å sidorna. Utbredning: Nordanfjällska Norge samt Sverige framför allt mellan Ångermanälven och Dalälven; Åland m. m.

I. Nordic race (in fact a whole group of related types according to later investigations : tall of stature, the mean length for men is at the moment 177-180 cm; the mean for women is nearly 12 cm shorter); lean with long legs but short arms; long skulled (The mean breadth length index is approximately 74-75 for men, approximately one unit higher for women) with narrow forehead and narrow but strongly chiseled face with an inclined profile (the mean facial index is 90-95 for men, approximately 2,5 units lower for women). The nose is straight or slightly convex in women, straight in men, sometimes slightly concave but rarely slightly convex, sligthly ridged ears on the inside, especially at the upper parts. The eyes are blue to bluish grey, rather shining. The hair is mostly ash-blonde, yet sometimes transcending into chestnut or flaxen ( the hair colour becomes darker with the years as in all races) moreover soft and often somewhat wavy . Pink skin. Main distribution of the present age goes from the Baltic provinces to the British isles, and from northernmost Norway to central Germany (however, mostly west of the Elbe) and northernmost France. The nordic race may in our territory be preliminary divided in the following way:

A. "Great Nordic race": features stated above. Two sub types:

b) Trönder type: Eyes more greyish blue, somewhat higher head (HLI approximately 71-72). The forehead is somewhat steeper and broader and more rounded towards the sides. Prevalence : Norway and Sweden, above all between Ångermanälven and Dalälven; Åland etc.

Source : Bertil Lundman (1940), Nordens rastyper.

http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/rastyper-04.htm

Väring
Saturday, February 5th, 2005, 10:01 AM
Trönder types from Åre.

Väring
Sunday, February 6th, 2005, 11:35 AM
1. Trönder from Svärdsjö.
2. Trönder from Enviken.

Väring
Tuesday, February 8th, 2005, 06:09 PM
Trönder types from Orsa.

Erlingr Hárbarðarson
Tuesday, February 8th, 2005, 06:36 PM
Trönder types from Mora....väring, jeg kunne ikke se bildene her. Er det noe i veien med linken?

Väring
Wednesday, February 9th, 2005, 12:28 PM
...väring, jeg kunne ikke se bildene her. Er det noe i veien med linken?

Inte alls. Det gick inte riktigt bra när jag skulle ladda upp bilderna igår.

Rehepapp
Wednesday, February 9th, 2005, 01:28 PM
De syns, allt verkar vara ok.

Väring
Thursday, February 10th, 2005, 05:28 PM
Jarl Alfredius

http://svt.se/content/1/c6/07/53/28/aktuellt_370.jpg

Väring
Friday, February 11th, 2005, 12:10 PM
Therese Alshammar

http://www.simforbundet.nu/novo/imglib/personal/lasse/theresealshammarb300w.jpg

Väring
Friday, February 11th, 2005, 12:11 PM
Tobias Billström

http://www.riksdagen.se/bilder/ledamotr/HighRes/00005764.JPG

Väring
Friday, February 11th, 2005, 12:14 PM
Ingvar Carlsson

http://www.eolss.net/ofw_interviews8.jpg

Väring
Friday, February 11th, 2005, 05:10 PM
Lennart Dahlgren

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/0301/13/NYHETER-15s00-hoa-98.jpg

Väring
Friday, February 11th, 2005, 05:16 PM
Stefan Edberg

http://www.tn-autogramme.de/adidas-galerie/adidas-scans/edberg9.jpg

Väring
Friday, February 11th, 2005, 05:20 PM
Jakob Eklund

http://www.trollhattan.se/upload/kommunen/information/Walk_of_fame/jakob_430.jpg

Väring
Friday, February 11th, 2005, 05:27 PM
Magnus Hedman

http://euro2004.lalibre.be/pictures_teams/s/hedman.jpg

friedrich braun
Friday, February 11th, 2005, 06:15 PM
Stefan Edberg has always struck me as the perfect Aryan.


Stefan Edberg

http://www.tn-autogramme.de/adidas-galerie/adidas-scans/edberg9.jpg

Erlingr Hárbarðarson
Friday, February 11th, 2005, 06:19 PM
Lennart Dahlgren

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/0301/13/NYHETER-15s00-hoa-98.jpg
Dahlgren looks very north as if of a þáttur or a hero in a saga.

Väring
Monday, February 14th, 2005, 05:06 PM
Dahlgren looks very north as if of a þáttur

What's that?

Väring
Monday, February 14th, 2005, 05:13 PM
Dolph Lundgren

http://xyberpunk.net/archive/images/portraits/cornelius.jpg

Väring
Monday, February 14th, 2005, 05:36 PM
Rickard Sjöberg

http://www.lindau.se/html/programledare/html/images/rickard1.jpg

Väring
Monday, February 14th, 2005, 05:44 PM
Victoria Silvstedt

http://www.ffagency.com/bild/48.jpg

Väring
Monday, February 14th, 2005, 05:45 PM
Agneta Sjödin

http://www.aftonbladet.se/noje/0207/16/NOJE-16s27-agneta-7.jpg

Väring
Monday, February 14th, 2005, 05:58 PM
Stellan Skarsgård

http://www.marion-m.de/autogramme/skarsgard.jpg

Erlingr Hárbarðarson
Monday, February 14th, 2005, 11:34 PM
What's that?
A þáttur? This a folk tale or a story in shortened saga approach. I meant that whilst at reading the stories and to imagine the characters as they howl or kill or love, I would picture some one who look like him. He has a village, troll (tradition/culture sense and not bad thing :biggrin:), folkish look on him and look like he came from a painting of Kittelsen, hehe.

Erlingr Hárbarðarson
Monday, February 14th, 2005, 11:38 PM
Stellan Skarsgård

http://www.marion-m.de/autogramme/skarsgard.jpg
I like Skarsgård very much. I thought always that Dolph looks very scandinavian, but I have seen people here labelling him as a flat-face nobody. What do you think on this, Väring?

Väring
Tuesday, February 15th, 2005, 05:24 PM
I like Skarsgård very much. I thought always that Dolph looks very scandinavian, but I have seen people here labelling him as a flat-face nobody. What do you think on this, Väring?

I think that Dolph is a good Nord. He is very gifted, and an underrated actor.

Väring
Tuesday, February 15th, 2005, 05:34 PM
Rolandas Paksas

http://www.night.lt/~eac/nuotraukos/10378_paksas-big.jpg

Väring
Tuesday, February 15th, 2005, 05:35 PM
Arturas Paulaskas

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20040308/capt.sge.qzj87.080304163035.photo00.defa ult-282x384.jpg