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Loki
Monday, September 19th, 2005, 11:03 PM
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/homeaffairs/story/0,11026,1573528,00.html

Britain 'sleepwalking to segregation'

Staff and agencies
Monday September 19, 2005


US-style ghetto segregation in Britain "could be getting worse", the former head of the Commission for Racial Equality, Lord Ousley, said today.

Lord Ousley - whose report into race relations in Bradford was published after riots in the city in 2001 - made the warning as the current CRE chairman, Trevor Phillips, prepared to call for controversial measures to prevent Britain from "sleepwalking" into racial and religious segregation. On Thursday, Mr Phillips will tell the Manchester Council for Community Relations that the "nightmare" of "fully fledged ghettos" - similar to those in New Orleans whose existence was highlighted by Hurricane Katrina - could emerge in this country.

Today, Lord Ousley said Mr Phillips seemed to be saying the government had "failed".

"He's right in so far as he needs to highlight the fact we do have concentrations and clusters of ethnic groups in areas that are suffering poverty, racialism, exclusion and discrimination," he told the BBC's Today programme.

"It's not new - it's been around for a while. It may be getting worse."

The minister for constitutional affairs, Harriet Harman, agreed that some of Britain's black and poor communities were beginning to resemble those in the US.

"We don't want to get into a situation like America - but if you look at the figures we are already looking like America," she told the Independent. "In London, poor, young and black people don't register to vote."

Among the measures Mr Phillips will suggest is for "white" schools to be forced to take larger numbers of ethnic minority pupils to aid integration.

Mr Phillips admits his message is "bleak", but says the UK must heed the lessons of Hurricane Katrina.

"The fact is that we are a society which - almost without noticing it - is becoming more divided by race and religion," he will say.

Some districts are on their way to "literal black holes into which nobody goes without fear and trepidation and from which nobody ever escapes undamaged".

He will warn that this situation risks culminating in a "New Orleans-style Britain of passively coexisting ethnic and religious communities, eyeing each other over the fences of our differences".

In his assessment of the UK following the July 7 terror attacks on London, Mr Phillips will add: "We are sleepwalking our way to segregation.

"We are becoming strangers to each other and leaving communities to be marooned outside the mainstream."

The Northern Ireland secretary, Peter Hain, who lived in South Africa before moving to the UK as a teenager in the late 60s, said Mr Phillips's warning had to be taken "very seriously" and was "very worrying".

"It is a complex picture," he said. "On the one hand, compared to 20 years ago, certainly when I came to Britain, there is much more racial tolerance and much more integration." "One the other hand, as he points out, there is a tendency to congregate on a residential basis by your ethnic group. I just want to see, as he does, more and more integration right across the board."

anonymaus
Monday, September 19th, 2005, 11:05 PM
So in order to solve the problems of racial and cultural mixing in Britain, they're going to make it worse? Great! They're doing our job for us. Good show, I say!

RedJack
Tuesday, September 20th, 2005, 02:39 AM
Mr Phillips admits his message is "bleak", but says the UK must heed the lessons of Hurricane Katrina.

Oh, if only they would heed those lessons.

Triglav
Tuesday, September 20th, 2005, 02:41 AM
"One the other hand, as he points out, there is a tendency to congregate on a residential basis by your ethnic group. I just want to see, as he does, more and more integration right across the board."

Wow... :coffee:

RedJack
Tuesday, September 20th, 2005, 02:44 AM
Mind-boggling that these bozos can't see what's staring them in the face, isn't it?

Heidenlord
Wednesday, September 21st, 2005, 08:32 PM
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/homeaffairs/story/0,11026,1573528,00.html
"One the other hand, as he points out, there is a tendency to congregate on a residential basis by your ethnic group. I just want to see, as he does, more and more integration right across the board."
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Yeah, these people are crazy for wanting to live in neighborhoods with similar cultures, don't they know that?:icon12:

I guess it is just further proof that when the government says diversity they mean intergration.

Sigel
Thursday, September 22nd, 2005, 08:51 AM
This from the Beeb:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4270010.stm
Analysis: Segregated Britain?
By Dominic Casciani
BBC News community affairs

The head of the Commission for Racial Equality Trevor Phillips is warning of increased segregation.
But it should come as no surprise - it has been on the government's books since the riots of 2001.

The most damning report into the disturbances, by Ted Cantle, a former council chief and expert in local communities, warned of communities living "parallel lives" and recommended wide-ranging changes to policy.

The words chosen by Mr Phillips for his speech are more strident - but they amount to the same thing: People share space in Britain's towns and cities but do not know who each other are.

The CRE chairman has already attacked what many increasingly regard as the heart of the problem, multiculturalism, a concept that few people agree on.


To its critics, multiculturalism means defining people as different - black, white, Asian, Muslim, Irish and so on - and then treating them differently.
At its most stark, critics say it means policy makers decide how to treat people based first on their ethnicity, rather than their rights as citizens; in turn, this encourages people to see themselves as different, as separate, rather than sharing common goals.

On the other hand, the supporters of multiculturalism say it cannot be blamed for segregation in society; they argue that public displays of difference - such as a laissez-faire attitude to building of places of worship, can strengthen communities by building civic pride into identities.

In his speech, Mr Phillips argues that the nation is becoming more divided by race and religion, with young people being brought up in enclaves.

He warns that Britain is "sleep-walking" its way towards segregation on a scale already seen in the USA. The evidence is there to be seen, says Mr Phillips, it's just going unspoken.

'Enclaves growing'

So what is the evidence? Last month the Royal Geographical Society published a study that suggested ethnic "enclaves" are growing in the UK's cities.

In 16 major cities, including London, Manchester and Bradford, they found groups isolated by ethnicity. Some of the widest separation occurred with people of Pakistani or Bangladeshi backgrounds, some of the poorest groups in society.

In short, government policy needs to be much more sophisticated in how it stops this kind of seemingly permanent division, argued the paper.

However, there is evidence that points in completely the other direction - not least within the figures of the BBC's Born Abroad project, published this month.

Ethnic mixing

Those maps of the UK, based on research carried out for the Institute of Public Policy Research, show not only the homogenous clusters that worry Trevor Phillips - but also ethnic mixing seemingly taking place through choice.



BORN ABROAD PROJECT
Maps immigration to Britain
Where people come from
Where they live
How well they do

Two major ethnicities, for example, the Caribbean-born and the India-born, can be seen quite clearly in the Born Abroad maps moving out of inner cities into the leafier suburbs as the years pass.
In other words, people who can afford to do so often appear to have little problem mixing on Acacia Avenue. And as older, economically-established ethnicities move out of the cities, Born Abroad shows new and more diverse peoples moving in - particularly young people drawn by the attractions of London.

Building citizenship

So what does this mean for policy? One of the big issues over the past five years has been whether or not government should be taking a leading role in defining what it is to be a British citizen.


HAVE YOUR SAY
Integration in this country has always been something of a myth
David Clancy, Epping, Essex, UK
Former Home Secretary David Blunkett was a fan of the idea and introduced citizenship ceremonies - but Britain has so far shied away from wrapping its people in the flag in the same way as you would find in America.
Perhaps more importantly, although America has more than its fair share of a common national ethos, it is precisely the place that Trevor Phillips is warning Britain not to become.

Since the London bombings there has been a return to these ideas, with a wide spectrum of thinkers - both from the left and the right - arguing that more needs to be done to build a sense among young people that this country is for all of them.

Ted Cantle, the man who authored that key report into the 2001 riots, is soon to launch an institute dedicated to studying how to create "community cohesion".

But once that's done, how much difference can remain? Should councils, for instance, produce literature in English alone? Lambeth in London, for instance, produces literature in at least 10 languages.

On the other hand, have policies aimed at fostering tolerance led to indifference towards each other, rather than an effort to build common values?

Segregation first and foremost starts in the mind. The question is whether there is an easy way to get neighbours who may think the same, but not know it, to stop treating each other differently.


:gay:
Some revealing comments in there though.

anonymaus
Thursday, September 22nd, 2005, 09:37 AM
Take heed, Britons: Subway bombs are meant to scare more people than they kill, and Muslims are not the only terrorists in your midst.

Neo-Marxists, Fabianists and other interlopers have been attacking britain for decades; their work is slow and insidious. Like a cancer slowly eating you from the inside out, you may not know it is there until it is too late--when the cancer has had its fill your body can no longer operate. The work of these.. cancers.. is slow enough that you aren't meant to spot it with the naked eye. Thus it is a critical eye you must cast on all of your establishment, and on anyone who unduly influences those who control it.

After decades of forced "integration" and so-called "multiculturalism", exponential amounts of propaganda in all forms of media, the policing of thought - of feeling! - nature has not wavered. Britons and immigrants alike voluntarily segregate - from each other and within the larger group of inassimilable immigrants - and attempt to persist and thrive in the comfort of their own people--their own culture.

I cannot say for certain if this signals the cancer having consumsed all it can, but I can say for certain this is a warning sign; Britons must awaken, they must be as alarmed and educated by this information, and the surrounding incidents, as those who would use it to control them.

Fear is their most effective tool. It is most effective against the masses, because most of the masses are poorly educated and oppressed by the daily tasks which allow their subsistence. This is not a coincidence of societal evolution, it is a tool of oppression. With education, with the desire to make Britain right again, enough Britons can resist the illusory safety of groupthink and mass fear to see it through.

Nature is a juggernaut which cannot be stopped, indefinitely.

Sigel
Thursday, September 22nd, 2005, 02:34 PM
This is not a coincidence of societal evolution, it is a tool of oppression.
Good point. Now they are confronted with the fact that people donít want to mix, their multi-culti Ďemperors clothesí are vanishing away.

Theyíll do what they can, using legislation, to perpetuate this fallacy.

Perhaps people applying for a job, university place etc. will have to somehow demonstrate they have friends amongst other races (maybe a supporting letter).

Registry offices could start getting quotas and targets based on the ethnic mixes of potential spouses. Long waiting lists if too many whites have married whites recently!

Child benefit and tax could be tilted in favour of mixed couples and their offspring - the list goes on.

Nothing in Blairís Orwellian state would surprise me - even such blatant racial discrimination.

tuddorsped
Thursday, September 22nd, 2005, 03:17 PM
Good point. Now they are confronted with the fact that people donít want to mix, their multi-culti Ďemperors clothesí are vanishing away.

Theyíll do what they can, using legislation, to perpetuate this fallacy.

Perhaps people applying for a job, university place etc. will have to somehow demonstrate they have friends amongst other races (maybe a supporting letter).

Registry offices could start getting quotas and targets based on the ethnic mixes of potential spouses. Long waiting lists if too many whites have married whites recently!

Child benefit and tax could be tilted in favour of mixed couples and their offspring - the list goes on.

Nothing in Blairís Orwellian state would surprise me - even such blatant racial discrimination.

With respect, that is pure paranoid drivel. You have obviously never worked in a bureaucracy or ran an office full of people from diverse backgrounds. If you had, you would realise the sheer ridiculousness of your assumptions.

I wouldn't pay much attention to useful idiots like Phillips and the CRE. The plutocrat's strategy is to divide and rule and to maintain as well as, if possible, maximise profits. Social utopianism isn't really part of the hidden agenda. In fact, fragmentation and atomisation are much more beneficial in the long run. The last thing the people upstairs want is any sort of consensus or unity developing amongst the broad masses. People of the same skin colour would be a disaster. You think the guys who run the establishment believe in equal opportunity and egalitarianism? Do you think they have ever stared downwards into the eyes of a coloured servant and countenanced their intellectual equal? Don't make me laugh. The purpose of fostering balkanisation is to provoke disharmony and disrupt social cohesion indefinitely. It's the perfect tool to justify continued social/economic equalities and drive the ordinary man on the street into competitive consumption through increased fear. Even bombs can be good for business. It's how you sell them which counts.

Follow the money, my friend, not the antics of the trained monkeys in the daily circus.

Sigel
Thursday, September 22nd, 2005, 08:15 PM
With respect, that is pure paranoid drivel.
Youíre free to interpret my comments in any way you choose.
Iíve had remarks like that before, although this is the first time they havenít come from a leftie.

You have obviously never worked in a bureaucracy or ran an office full of people from diverse backgrounds.
Now that would be telling, wouldnít it.

If you had, you would realise the sheer ridiculousness of your assumptions.
Hardly more ridiculous than most of the race/ rights legislation already on, or close to, the statute books.

I wouldnít pay much attention to useful idiots like Phillips and the CRE.
Why not? Blair does. Quangos play an important part in steering legislation, ask the police.

The plutocratís strategy is to divide and rule and to maintain as well as, if possible, maximise profits. Social utopianism isnít really part of the hidden agenda. In fact, fragmentation and atomisation are much more beneficial in the long run. The last thing the people upstairs want is any sort of consensus or unity developing amongst the broad masses. People of the same skin colour would be a disaster.
So, are you saying there is no multi-cultural agenda?

You think the guys who run the establishment believe in equal opportunity and egalitarianism?
Some do, others pay lip service.

Do you think they have ever stared downwards into the eyes of a coloured servant and countenanced their intellectual equal?
They tend to just f**k them, if I'm not mistaken.

Donít make me laugh.
Come on, it wonít hurt.:D

The purpose of fostering balkanisation is to provoke disharmony and disrupt social cohesion indefinitely.
I disagree that our great and good are ďfostering balkanisationĒ. Race war Yugoslav style is the last thing any of them want. Balkanisation is the natural state of diverse racial groups lumped together against their will. It isnít Ďfosteredí itís what humans do, itís tribal and racial. Surely your football fisticuffs have taught you that!

Itís the perfect tool to justify continued social/economic equalities
Isnít that a contradiction?

and drive the ordinary man on the street into competitive consumption through increased fear.
That makes no sense mate. Why should I feel scared into consuming more if I live in a racially diverse society? (Apart from the extra security features on my house)!

Even bombs can be good for business. Itís how you sell them which counts.
Follow the money, my friend, not the antics of the trained monkeys in the daily circus.
I follow my own conscience friend, I prefer to leave the money and the monkeys to others.

jcs
Thursday, September 22nd, 2005, 08:37 PM
So, are you saying there is no multi-cultural agenda?
The "multi-cultural agenda" is nothing more than a means of increasing market demographics. If a corporation or politician can convince people to unify around some idea or lose their identity, they basically have a single group to which they need to appeal. Multiculturalism is an advertising strategy aiming to accumulate wealth, not an insidious plot whose primary intent is to kill cultures. And it is followed by the masses because they are too busy concerning themselves with the wonderful new gadgets given to them by corporations or petty political drivel to notice that cultures are dying.

Ever notice that the only people you meet in real life who staunchly support multiculturalism as an aim in itself are either completely brainwashed idiots or individuals who desperately feel the need to cling to some political ideal that they may make themselves feel important? The vast majority of people are rather indifferent to multiculturalism (and similarly indifferent to culturalism or racialism), but just want to live their small lives making a profit, complaining about the government for all the wrong reasons, and playing with their gadgets.

The only agenda is $$$.

tuddorsped
Thursday, September 22nd, 2005, 09:41 PM
You’re free to interpret my comments in any way you choose.
I’ve had remarks like that before, although this is the first time they haven’t come from a leftie.

Now that would be telling, wouldn’t it.

Hardly more ridiculous than most of the race/ rights legislation already on, or close to, the statute books.

Why not? Blair does. Quangos play an important part in steering legislation, ask the police.

So, are you saying there is no multi-cultural agenda?

Some do, others pay lip service.

They tend to just f**k them, if I'm not mistaken.

Come on, it won’t hurt.:D

I disagree that our great and good are “fostering balkanisation”. Race war Yugoslav style is the last thing any of them want. Balkanisation is the natural state of diverse racial groups lumped together against their will. It isn’t ‘fostered’ it’s what humans do, it’s tribal and racial. Surely your football fisticuffs have taught you that!

Isn’t that a contradiction?

That makes no sense mate. Why should I feel scared into consuming more if I live in a racially diverse society? (Apart from the extra security features on my house)!

I follow my own conscience friend, I prefer to leave the money and the monkeys to others.


Ouch, typo.

"It’s the perfect tool to justify continued social/economic equalities".

Should have read "inequalities".

Otherwise, JCS's well-articulated sentiments above amply express the overall thrust of my argument.

And yes, competitive consumption very much relies upon fear and cultural disorientation to push its insidious ideology. Just as it uses the fetishisation of wealth and money to distract attention away from societal decline. Why do you think the middle class in the UK largely doesn't give a damn about the conscious exploration of racial issues? It's all about continued evasion and obfuscation. A growing sense of unease temporarily suspended by a new dvd, a new car or a two week holiday in Falaraki.

And yes, of course its's all ultimately about race. We understand that. That's why we post here. But recognising the power of unconscious racial instincts and their effects on a civilisation is not the same as trying to elucidate the workings of a society through an undertstanding of the racial instinct and its subtle interaction and intricate mediations with the engine of socio-economic forces. For most people, race is unconscious, money and wealth very much isn't.

Anyone can be bought. Why do you think we are so few?