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Väring
Thursday, July 21st, 2005, 05:19 PM
Plate 29

THE NORDIC RACE: HALLSTATT AND KELTIC
IRON AGE TYPES

FIG. 3 (2 views). An East Anglian from Ipswich, Suffolk. More of the English belong to this locally older older Keltic Iron Age type, which came from southwestern Germany with the Kelts and is differentiated by a lower cranial vault, a more sloping forehead, and greater nasal prominance. The hair color is more frequently brown than light blond.

Age .................35
Stature ..........182 cm
Weight ..........150 lbs
Head L .........188 mm
Head Br. .......151
Min.Fr. ..........108
Bizyg. ...........137
Bigon. ..........107
T.F.Ht. ..........131
U.F.Ht. ...........77
N.Ht. ..............61
N.Br. ..............36
Biorb. ............88
Interorb. .........26
C.I. ............... 80.3
F.I. ................ 96
U.F.I. ..............56
N.I. .................59
Hair ........#10 Light-Br.
Eyes.............Blue-Gray


http://www.snpa.skadi.net/bilder/troe293a.jpg
http://www.snpa.skadi.net/bilder/troe293b.jpg


Several morphological features distinguish these skulls, of the typical, or mesocephalic, group - which in the British Isles seems largely to lack the brachycephalic minority which accompanies the main type in central and eastern Europe. The forehead is quite sloping; the vault, when seen from behind, gives a cylindrical impression, rather than that of a rhomboid or rectangle, as with other Nordic crania. The upper face is quite long, the mandible wide at the back, and relatively shallow. The nose is often very prominent.

But there are other features, however, which render them as a group slightly different; the vault has a tendency to be low in proportion to its breadth, and the upper face is long in proportion to the total face, for the Keltic jaw, although broad at the gonial angles, is not as deep as that of other Iron Age Nordics.

The typical Keltic face was long in the upper portion, shallow in the mandible, long and narrow of nose, often with a convex profile, and the forehead was extremely sloping and the vault low. This has its most frequent counterpart today in the British Isles.

Coon, Carleton (1939). The races of Europe.

Väring
Thursday, July 21st, 2005, 05:27 PM
Fig. 4 (2 views, photo C. W. Dupertuis). The Iron Age Nordic type is particularly important in Ireland, which was never invaded by Germanic-speaking Hallstatt Nordics. This individual, a man from County Clare, with his sloping forehead, aquiline nose, and brown hair, is an excellent example.

Age ................45
Stature .........171 cm
Weight .........148 lbs
Head L ........202 mm
Head Br. ......156
Min.Fr. .........111
Bizyg. ..........142
Bigon. .........106
T.F.Ht. .........127
U.F.Ht. ...........72
N.Ht. ..............60
N.Br. ..............36
C.I. ................77
F.I. ................89
U.F.I. .............51
N.I. ................60
Hair ............Brown
Eyes.............Blue

http://www.snpa.skadi.net/bilder/troe294b.jpg
http://www.snpa.skadi.net/bilder/troe294a.jpg

Coon, Carleton (1939). The Races of Europe.

RedJack
Friday, July 22nd, 2005, 12:10 AM
Fascinating, I'm beginning to think this is the sub race I belong to, except that my forehead isn't particularly sloping, my vault isn't particularly low and I'm way too robust. :scratch:

The Horned God
Friday, July 22nd, 2005, 02:18 AM
I bare a fair resemblence to the man from Co. Clare in the lower image in at least a couple of respects;

At 177cm I'm a little taller than he is at 171cm. I weigh maybe 10lbs or so more and we are of similar slim build. Eye and ear shape are similar. My ears, which are also protruding, are unlikely to win me many modeling contracts, but them's the breaks.:D

Head lenght: Mine. 208mm, his 202mm.
Head width: mine. 157mm, his 156mm

Nose width: mine. 35mm, his 36mm

Bizyg; mine. 135mm, his 142mm
Minfrontal; mine 106mm, his 111mm
Total face ht; mine 131mm, his 127mm.

Do these measurments constitute a sub-racially signficant similarity can anyone tell me?
I tend to think that probably they do, for reasons of geography if nothing else.

Btw I took the measurments with this;

http://tinypic.com/97urr6.jpg

http://tinypic.com/97usm1.jpg

Vintage medical cranial calipers, $50 off ebay; pretty slick huh?
Well, maybe I got done but I think they're cool anyway. :)

Agrippa
Friday, July 22nd, 2005, 02:42 AM
The most typical Keltic I saw in the last time was from Ireland, county of Cork. He looked like a small-gracile Nordid-Dinarid, just with a lower and longer had and finer features. But he had something specific I dont see here too often though there are many Nordid-Dinarid people here...

The head measurements from Coon are at least no total crap, but you can basically forget about all height measurements because of the secular acceleration. What was tall in the past is now just medium etc.

F.e. for v. Eickstedt were males above 165,0 tall. Thats was true for the 1930's, maybe ok for the 1950's, but isnt now for modern Europeans.
Very tall would have been above 174,0 in his scheme, thats absurd now.

I made some small changes for his scheme, I dont know a better one so far:
Eickstedt for 1930's-50's:
above average: 162,0-164,9, tall: 165,0-173,9, very tall: 174,0-193,9
mine:
above average: 173,0-175,9, tall:176,0-186,5, very tall: 186,6-207,9

Just to see the difference, I dont say my scheme is that good, I just dont know a better and the old ones are passe. Furthermore this are world standards. If you see old maps or comparisons, its necessary to keep the secular acceleration always in mind and to think of the generation we are speaking about.

RedJack
Friday, July 22nd, 2005, 03:40 AM
Secular acceleration? :O

Agrippa
Friday, July 22nd, 2005, 12:16 PM
Look f.e. at this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7137938&dopt=Abstract

Its a process most likely caused by various environmental factors (most likely mainly nutrition, but also urbanisation, different muscle, even climate, diseases etc.) which made people maturing earlier and gaining more height - longer legs too.

Because of this phenotypical change people with the same genetic potential can be much taller today. So someone who comes out of a tall (f.e. Nordid, Dinarid, Dalofaelid) family should be today much taller than in the past. 176 is today rather medium to lower stature than tall f.e. whereas in the 1930's it was considered being rather tall. If a Nordid man from 1939 would have been 176 at this time, his grandchild now with the (if) same genetic background should be at least above 180+ cm tall.

Sigel
Friday, July 22nd, 2005, 02:40 PM
The Iron Age Nordic type is particularly important in Ireland, which was never invaded by Germanic-speaking Hallstatt Nordics.
Coon, Carleton (1939). The Races of Europe.
So, who founded Dublin?
Who were the so-called Old English (the ones who weren't beyond the pale)?
Which nations made up the Black & Tan?

Perhaps our Irish members could shed some light on the above.

I've encountered quite a few very blond Irish in my time.

Väring
Friday, July 22nd, 2005, 05:35 PM
Peter Cushing
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~rn6d-hnd/people/peter_cushing.jpg

Ralph Fiennes
http://www.arnadal.no/film/actors/images/fiennes_ralph.jpg

John Hurt
http://www.terra.com.br/diversao/galeria/nova_personagens/john hurt.jpg

RedJack
Friday, July 22nd, 2005, 07:26 PM
People are taller because they live in the city? Why?:icon1:

Agrippa
Friday, July 22nd, 2005, 07:44 PM
People are taller because they live in the city? Why?:icon1:

That was true in the past especially for the bourgeois people because they had better nutrition, less hard physical work and its of course a grade of social selection in which taller leptomorphics are usually the more successful people both because of their appearance and tendencies in personality (schizothym).

Sigel
Friday, July 22nd, 2005, 10:03 PM
So, who founded Dublin?
Here you go mate:

Viking find at Golden Lane

A VIKING skeleton has been found at Golden Lane in Dublin 2 during development works close to Ship Street. The skeleton of a young male was found complete with a spearhead.
The find was confirmed by City Archaeologist, Dr Ruth Johnson, who said it was the fourth Viking discovery in the city since 2001.
Ongoing excavation of the site has been scheduled to tie in with its development schedule, so work on the site will not be affected while the skeleton is being studied.
“What’s very exciting about this find is that we’re beginning to learn more about the first Viking presence in Dublin,” said Dr Johnson.
“The post-excavation analysis of the bones and teeth will tell us about the age of this young man, his health at the time of his death and maybe even where he grew up.”
A previous Viking skeleton found in 2003 in nearby Georges Street turned out to be from the Hebrides.
Dublin City Council had anticipated that Viking archaeology could be found at the site which is on the edge of ‘The Pool’ – Linn Dubh - the old name for the Irish settlement in Dublin.
Other Viking skeletons were previously found at neighbouring sites at Ship Street and Georges Street, suggesting that Viking activity focused around the area prior to the foundation of the Viking town in the 10th century.
“The sequence of Viking finds shows how important it is that archaeological conditions are attached for sites in sensitive areas,” said Dr Johnson.
“If this weren’t the case, internationally important information would be lost for ever. Instead we now have the opportunity to piece together more clues about the history of this unique place and no time has been lost on the development schedule. It’s a win-win situation”.
Consultant archaeologists Margaret Gowen & Company Ltd will complete the excavations for the developer, JJ Rattigan, and post excavation analysis will begin immediately.

http://www.southsidepeople.ie/index.php?option=news&task=viewarticle&sid=1230

You'll not be tellin' me they left them pretty Irish lasses alone will ya?

Väring
Monday, July 25th, 2005, 06:10 PM
Billy Boyd

http://www.freewebs.com/lotr06/billy boyd.jpg

Clint Eastwood

http://www.all-pictures-photos.com/images/clint-eastwood/clint-eastwood-img.jpg

Jude Law

http://entimg.msn.com/i/gal/Golden_Globe_Arrivals2004/JudeLaw_300x435.jpg

Gary Oldman

http://www.thespiannet.com/actors/O/oldman_gary/go.jpg

Ronald Pickup

http://members.fortunecity.com/tylorhan/faces4/ronald_pickup.jpg

Vincent Price

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/MMPH/170384.jpg

Clive Robertson

http://www.people.freenet.de/SunsetBeach/Clive.jpg

Burt Ward

http://www.globalia.net/donlope/fz/notes/ward.jpg

DreamWalker
Monday, July 25th, 2005, 07:35 PM
The Iron Age Nordic type is particularly important in Ireland, which was never invaded by Germanic-speaking Hallstatt Nordics.

Perhaps not by Hallstatt Nordics, but Ireland was invaded by Normans (Northmen), but I believe these were typically Trondor types.

DreamWalker
Thursday, July 28th, 2005, 03:26 AM
Btw I took the measurments with this;

http://tinypic.com/97urr6.jpg

http://tinypic.com/97usm1.jpg

Vintage medical cranial calipers, $50 off ebay; pretty slick huh?
Well, maybe I got done but I think they're cool anyway. :)
Pretty fancy:) mine were much cheaper but have to be used with a separate ruler/tape, I didn't need two but that's what I have now;

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7526815959&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1