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Ritter
Friday, July 12th, 2002, 02:55 AM
What is the difference between Picts and Celts?

jab
Friday, July 12th, 2002, 01:03 PM
well the Tribe of Gael , Celts from Iberia it is belived invaded
Ireland and then imposed their language and culture. now they
eventually spread across into ALBA or Scotland. Scotti was
the nickname for the settlers hence scots is derived from this.
The Picts would have been the ab original Tribes there since
the time of the Romans and before. Hence the tribe of Gael
and its language Gaelige would be very similiar. in the
scottish Highlands. isle of man. and Ireland. The Picts
Language would be a different family tree most likely
related to Welsh. hence the divide of Highlanders and
lowlanders. however there common history shares
much the same culture. WHITE. Therfore Picts or
Highlanders . Celts all and WN . Welcome Here
88 JAB .

faeryfolk
Sunday, July 14th, 2002, 02:36 AM
The Picts were a tribe of Celts. For example... the Celts were a culture and the Picts were a group within that same culture.

Hellstar
Sunday, July 14th, 2002, 02:55 AM
Yes that's an interesting subject, I cant help wondering if there is some sort of legendary >Racial type< characterized as the (essential Celtic folk) like for example the Keltic Nordic or Brünn race type. or who was really the creator of the wide spread Celtic culture?

BTW: I see we got a new member faeryfolk

WELCOME TO ARYAN DAWN:p

faeryfolk
Sunday, July 14th, 2002, 04:34 AM
Thanks for the welcome Hellstar. I'll do my best to contribute!

WarMaiden
Sunday, July 14th, 2002, 05:23 AM
Hey Faery Welcome aboard sis :D

Love & Sisterhood
Vicky

Albannach
Sunday, July 14th, 2002, 09:15 PM
The Picts were pre-Celtic people, and spoke a non-Celtic language. This is evidenced by the recorded fact that St. Columba's biographer clearly stated that the Irish saint needed a translator to preach to the Pictish King Brude, son of Maelchon, at Brude's court near the shores of Loch Ness.

We also know that as far as the 9th century they wrote in stone a language which was not far in design from the Celtic "Ogham" script but was not Celtic in context.

It is in the sculptured stones of Scotland, left behind by the Pictish and proto-Pictish people of ancient Alba and present day Scotland that we can find some information about a mighty race of people who defied and defeated Rome and who slaughtered the invincible barbarian hordes of Angles Germans at Nechtansmere in Angus, and hammered the invading Vikings back home thus forever preserving a separate culture and race in Scotland. It is in these sometimes mighty, sometimes delicate stones that the history of ancient Scotland is now recorded. Were they descendants of the ancient Basque people of northern Spain once known to Rome as Pictones, who then migrated to northern Britain after they had helped the Empire defeat the seagoing people of Biscay? Or are they descendants of the dark tribes of ancient Stygia and the huge Eastern steppes? No one knows - only the Stones.

My ancestors came from the Nechtansmere area. I am proud to be Albannach - a Northern Pict.

jab
Sunday, July 14th, 2002, 09:39 PM
I wonder has any DNA survey been carried out on a cross section of
scots. This could unravel the mystery. In ireland we found that we
where closely related to Iceland. Their having been trade and a Viking
colony sent from DUBLIN WEXFORD and LIMERICK ports of the NINTH
century vikings in Ireland.NO surprise.. also another surveys
use of people with Gaelige
surnames found links to the Basques
However Scotland too would have vikngs scotti and Picts
my own Nephews
are desendents of Borderers. who raided England. Their Scottish
Grandpa reads a bible in scots. which is a Dialect of english which
i find hard to understand . where does this Teutonic Dialect of scots
come from if not picts JAB

Albannach
Monday, July 15th, 2002, 09:48 AM
Hmmmm, yes, a DNA study would indeed be interesting.

Also of interest is a Mediterranean connection. The Scots dialect is known as "the Doric" and is so described because it apparently resembles the Greek. I haven't heard Greek spoken but I imagined it to be more "liquid" rather than the guttural sounds of the Scots dialect with its glottal stops.

davison6
Friday, July 19th, 2002, 04:47 AM
Originally posted by faeryfolk
The Picts were a tribe of Celts. For example... the Celts were a culture and the Picts were a group within that same culture. No they were not. Like the Basques in the Pyrenees, they were a remnant of the original people of Europe before the Aryan invasions. They were white, though, no doubt about that.

Ritter
Friday, July 19th, 2002, 05:04 AM
ok... so the Picts were a group that migrated into Europe very early and "independent" of the Aryan migrations (or before)?
What about their language and Religion. Indo-European language or much earlier? What kind of Religion did they have?

davison6
Friday, July 19th, 2002, 05:18 AM
Originally posted by der Ritter
ok... so the Picts were a group that migrated into Europe very early and "independent" of the Aryan migrations (or before)?
What about their language and Religion. Indo-European language or much earlier? What kind of Religion did they have? Actually, not too much is known of the Picts. By historical times they seem to have been Aryanized, so we don't know much of their customs before the Aryan invasions. Incidentally, Aryanization was rather common, for instance there has been speculation that the famed Cimbri and Teutones crushed by Marius were not actually Aryan (Celtic) but Celtified Old Europeans (for lack of a better phrase, I use Gimbutas'). The Picts would seem to have been descendants of the Paleolithic and Mesolithic population of Europe, and therefore truly aboriginal. As demonstrated by the incident quoted above in the life of St. Columba, their language was not Aryan, and their Ogham inscriptions confirm this. Fortunately, we can read their inscriptions, and their language does not seem to be directly related to Basque, from what I know. However, it would fit into a general category of pre-Aryan Western European languages including Basque and Etruscan. Etruscan, however, is actually a hybrid language, since it does have sufficient Aryan elements to go beyond mere word borrowing. With the sole exception of Basque, this family is dead. It is not related to Saami or Lappic, although these peoples are also very well established in their lands.

GaelicWarrior
Saturday, July 20th, 2002, 01:02 PM
The Picts according to the Edinburgh Museum are of "old european" stock meaning pre-Celtic and falling into the Mediterranean category of the white race, and probably much like the Fir Bolg of Eire or the Basques in Spain. The bodies pulled from highland bogs indicate that there were a reasonable short and stocky people with hair color ranging from near black to rudy brown.

They were displaced over time by so many waves of Celtic and Northumbrian/Angles and later he Norse that their composition and ethnic differences changed drastically.

The picts as a "race" slowly faded into obscurity but their kingdom survived until the Scots from "Dalriada" and the Picts were united under one crown.

The word Celt is used very loosely in the UK and Ireland to describe all peoples that lived there before the Germanic Invasions. But It’s not altogether accurate. The Average Short dark Welshmen or his equivalent in the black Irish carry genes of a time long before the indo-european Celts came, bringing bronze with them.

Are they less Celtic in culture, NO the Celts brought with them a whole new era of metal language and most likely religion, and the old population was absorbed into the new.

A good first Post to be sure! :)

Cràig MacGilleMaòl

Oh and thanks to Jab for the invite
x_cheers

Albannach
Saturday, July 20th, 2002, 06:54 PM
The religion of the Picts before their conversion is supposed by the majority of writers on this subject to have been that which prevailed in the rest of Britain and in Celtic Gaul, Druidism.

davison6
Monday, July 22nd, 2002, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by Albannach
The religion of the Picts before their conversion is supposed by the majority of writers on this subject to have been that which prevailed in the rest of Britain and in Celtic Gaul, Druidism. Since in the area of religion the Aryans incorporated many local beliefs in all the areas they settled, it is quite possible that Druidism as practiced in the British Isles is largely of Pictish origin. Certainly I have no doubt that Pictish beliefs converged with those of the Island Celts in many important areas.

nsrus
Thursday, July 25th, 2002, 05:38 AM
I cannot say i am too interested in the wherefores and whys of the past.But before leaving the UK i took my Irish American companion to the British Museum in London and stunned her as i was once stunned myself by showing her the Saxon Crosses which to my and her eyes appear identical to the ones dotted across Ireland.

Fact is whether we like it or not all White Aryans have a common enemy to defeat after the victory parade we can get out the DNA slides and solve all racial / tribal origins once and for all. At the moment i use a rule of thumb which is anyone who is not sure they are a White Aryan probably is'nt and his white genes are telling him so.Hence the most dangerous and lunatic of our alien settlers are the 'half castes' schizophrenic by race - schizophrenic by nature

GaelicWarrior
Thursday, July 25th, 2002, 06:17 AM
Originally posted by nsrus
I cannot say i am too interested in the wherefores and whys of the past.But before leaving the UK i took my Irish American companion to the British Museum in London and stunned her as i was once stunned myself by showing her the Saxon Crosses which to my and her eyes appear identical to the ones dotted across Ireland.

Fact is whether we like it or not all White Aryans have a common enemy to defeat after the victory parade we can get out the DNA slides and solve all racial / tribal origins once and for all. At the moment i use a rule of thumb which is anyone who is not sure they are a White Aryan probably is'nt and his white genes are telling him so.Hence the most dangerous and lunatic of our alien settlers are the 'half castes' schizophrenic by race - schizophrenic by nature

Well said!

There’s a battle ranging out there and we have a long way to go to win this war.

However we all must remember where it is we come from, and for what we fight. If you don't know and love out heritage it will be forgotten.

Unity of all Aryan peoples as one is important, but not at the cost of loosing out separate identities. We can have both!

lochgarman
Friday, August 9th, 2002, 10:25 PM
I don't agree with the theory that the Picts and other pre Celtic/ Germanic peoples were of mainly mediteranian stock, although there was some influences / settlement from the region. Wales being an obvious example of this.

The original peoples of North Western Europe, The Brunn types were actually as blue eyed fair featured/ with light non tanning skin as most of the population is today. Blonde hair was usually of a golden/ red shade to a darker brown.

The Brorby type more common in Scandinavia was grey eyed with not a much instances of Red hair/Freckles. Blonde hair was usually of a ash/ fair brown/ shade going to a darker brown.

Of course looking at the countries in North & Western Europe things have not changed that much, apart from the past 50 years since the darkies arrived!

The idea that before the Aryan Celtic & Germanic peoples arrived in North & Western Europe there was no one with blue/grey eyes Blonde/Fair Red hair/light skin/features is totally wrong.

I have yet to be convinced that a blonde haired blue/grey eyed race in great numbers arrived from the eastern steppes / mountains of Europe/Asia in great numbers to settle here. There does not seem to be any of them left in their supposed "heartland"? The Iranians claim that they are the true descendants of the Ayrans, but they don't seem to have blonde hair/Blue eyes?

As for Ayran races such as the Tocharians in Tibet/Modern China who are described as having similar features to N W Europeans I believe that is is possible that their origins might be further back in time than is usually quoted 2500BC for the start of the culture/race. They might originally have come from N W Europe and moved eastwards way before this time.

GaelicWarrior
Monday, August 12th, 2002, 10:37 AM
Meditarainian has never meant black hair and brown eyes. Mediterranean peoples of the Isles are described as fair skinned with Dark and often-ruddy hair with eyes ranging from brown to green.

In my studies I have come to the understanding that these early inhabitants of the Isles lived there before the Celtic Invasions. In Ireland they were known as the FirBolg and in Scotland as the Picts. The Firbolg were often discribed as dark people (meaning their hair colour) and the remnants of these people can be seen in the "Black Irish". These are people responsible for Newgrange and Stone Henge and the thousands of burial mounds in which communal cremations were kept. This occured some 5000 years ago.

About 3000 years ago many waves of what we call "Celtic" peoples moved across the isles (I prefer to call them indo-European as it is less confusing). These new peoples brought with them Bronze implements and a new era, as well as new methods of dealing with their deal which called for burial rather then cremation.

This didn't happen overnight, but there is a lot of evidence to support it.

The old population was absorbed over a great deal of time, but in places you can see in the faces of the population these old European type peoples. In Wales the Mediterranean look seems to have revived itself, in Scotland there is an obvious mix of Nordic and Mediterranean peoples, and Ireland you get some very interesting looks ranging from very Scandinavian to the Black Irish.

The bottom line? We share a common History up until around 3000 years ago and with it our own language and culture, and in may ways a distinct personality.

To comment on the Iranians and their claim to being true Aryans. While these people have maintained old aryan religion the racial aspect of these people is all but gone, being absorbed into the Semitic/mud population whose dark genes we know are dominant. The Indo-European culture must have been very dominant to make such a mark on that part of the world. So, their claim to "Aryanism" is cultural for the most part. There are some very light skinned and light eyed people in the middle easy who may have descended from these Aryans like the Brahman in India.

Stríbog
Sunday, August 18th, 2002, 12:00 AM
I don't have too much to add, since people here have already mentioned that Picts were Old European, pre-Aryan invasion, and spoke a non-Indo-European language. They were basically the same people as all Atlanto-Mediterraneans, including the Basque. The darker Irish and Scots, and much of the Welsh population, are still predominantly Pictish. Examples are Sean Connery, Catherine Zeta-Jones, and Tom Jones.

racist
Friday, December 13th, 2002, 05:29 AM
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picts

goidelicwarrior
Monday, December 16th, 2002, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by jab
well the Tribe of Gael , Celts from Iberia it is belived invaded
Ireland and then imposed their language and culture. now they
eventually spread across into ALBA or Scotland. Scotti was
the nickname for the settlers hence scots is derived from this.
The Picts would have been the ab original Tribes there since
the time of the Romans and before. Hence the tribe of Gael
and its language Gaelige would be very similiar. in the
scottish Highlands. isle of man. and Ireland. The Picts
Language would be a different family tree most likely
related to Welsh. hence the divide of Highlanders and
lowlanders. however there common history shares
much the same culture. WHITE. Therfore Picts or
Highlanders . Celts all and WN . Welcome Here
88 JAB .

Celts from Iberia fighting the oil from a JEWISH OWNED tanker, its my coast there destroyed, damn them!!!
14

Hellstar
Tuesday, December 17th, 2002, 12:41 AM
triskel


you posted this picture 3 times for no specific reason it seems. Im begining to consider it spam. is that you on the picture or? if you want it as sig then let me know and it can be put up permanent with your posts ( like similiar to the one I have where it says Hellstar) but otherwise then reframe from posting pictures not relevant, it use alot of bandwidth.

lochgarman
Saturday, December 28th, 2002, 08:58 PM
"In the proportion of pure light eyes, Ireland competes successfully with the blondest regions of Scandinavia. Over 46 per cent of the total group has pure light eyes, and of these all but 4 per cent are blue. Very light-mixed eyes account for another 30 per cent, while less than one-half of one per cent have pure brown. There is probably no population of equal size in the world which is lighter eyed, and blue eyed, than the Irish."

From the Nordish.com site

Having traveled over most of western Europe from Denmark down to Northern Italy westwards to Austria I have to say that most if not all countries including Denmark & Holland have a mixture of

1.Brown eyes/dark hair skin than tans easily, usually together .
2. Blue eyesfair/redhair & skin(sometimes with freckles) that burns easily.

Ireland seems to be slightly different in that people with darker hair don't seem to usually have brown eyes (many have very pale blue eyes)and still have pale skin which will not tan.

Going back to Irish legends & History to pre Celtic times(2800BC) and onwards there are accounts of invasions from Denmark/Tuath De Danann, North German coast /Leglin (where the province of Leinster gets its name, North Spain/Milesians ,not to mention Vikings Normans and other invaders in more recent times.The Book of Invasions mentioned at least 5 of these before the Celts arrived !

cosmocreator
Saturday, December 28th, 2002, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by HELLSTAR
Yes that's an interesting subject, I cant help wondering if there is some sort of legendary >Racial type< characterized as the (essential Celtic folk) like for example the Keltic Nordic or Brünn race type. or who was really the creator of the wide spread Celtic culture?

I think the origin of the Celts is with Alpines. There was a yahoo group that talked of this more but I'm thinking it doesn't exist anymore.

Stríbog
Saturday, December 28th, 2002, 10:43 PM
That's really interesting, I hadn't heard that before. Do you mean Alpine as a sub-racial type, or as a regional origin, because anthropologists have believed for many years that Celtic culture originated in the Alps of Austria, Switzerland and Upper Germany. I think what complicates this is that Alpine has both a regional and a subtype meaning, and Celtic is cultural, while "Keltic Nordic" is a subtype that is not equivalent to people of "Celtic" culture. I'd like to hear more about this theory.

Hellstar
Saturday, December 28th, 2002, 11:30 PM
lochgarman1798

sorry to break it to you but thats just total crap what you just said. first of all Ireland has nothing to do with scandinavien.
scandinavien is Denmark.Sweden.Norway,Iceland.

ok now when thats solved. Ireland is not and is far from the place with most light eyes. go to Finland and you shall find the real place. 46% lol? even 60% of denmark has light eyes and the number is higher in East Baltic indeed. who wrote this crap? was it Richard that idiot? I just about had it with this punk socalled Nordicist sitting on beach in floorida trying to lecture me about my own people.

ns1488ca

I dont think thats true, I think Kelts mainly consist of divergented Neo danubian tribe elements.


but please eleaborate as I find it interesting.

cosmocreator
Sunday, December 29th, 2002, 12:07 AM
Originally posted by NordischesBlutundEhre
That's really interesting, I hadn't heard that before. Do you mean Alpine as a sub-racial type, or as a regional origin, because anthropologists have believed for many years that Celtic culture originated in the Alps of Austria, Switzerland and Upper Germany. I think what complicates this is that Alpine has both a regional and a subtype meaning, and Celtic is cultural, while "Keltic Nordic" is a subtype that is not equivalent to people of "Celtic" culture. I'd like to hear more about this theory.

I use Alpine in the subracial sense. Austria, Switzerland and Upper Germany are very Alpine racially speaking. So if that is where Celtic culture originated wouldn't it seem likely that Alpines created?

Vanir
Tuesday, May 24th, 2005, 05:57 PM
The Picts always fascinated me...I recall reading that hopes were pinned on Aerial Photography being used to discover Pictish settlements in Scotland in fields, as from the air the outlines of disturbed earth showed up quite clearly.

I personally do not attribute too much weight to the Phoenician idea, I think the Picts were just the original inhabitants of the British Isles, who spoke some very old language that seems to have been non IE (Lunnasting Stone inscription: "ettocuhetts ahehhttann hccvvevv nehhtons" looks bizarre, and I gather it still remains untranslatable). I have a book that discusses whether or not the Pictish carvings were in fact pictograms, but however tantalizing an idea, it did seem a bit of a stretch when reading it...

anyway, an interesting read, regardless :)



WHO WERE THE PICTS?
http://www.jrbooksonline.com/pob/pob_ch11.html

Disclosing their Non-Aryan Racial Nature and Affinity with Matriarchist Van, Wan or Fian "Dwarfs," and as Aborigines of Britain in Stone Age.

"The Picts, a mysterious race whose origin no man knows."-Prof. R. S. RAIT, Hist. of Scotland, 1915, 11.

"No craft they knew
With woven brick or jointed beam to pile
The sunward porch; but in the dark earth burrowed
And housed, like tiny ants in sunless
caves." Prometheus Bound 1.

The mysterious Picts, whose origin and affinities have hitherto baffled all enquiries, nevertheless require their racial relationship to the aborigines of Britain and to the Aryans to be elicited, if possible, as an essential preliminary to discovering the agency by which Civilization was first introduced into Britain and the date of that epoch-making event.

The "Picts" are not mentioned under that name by Caesar, Tacitus, Ptolemy or any other early Roman or Greek writer on Ancient Britain. This is presumably because, as we shall find, that that was not their proper name, but a nickname.

The "Picts" first appear in history under that name at the latter end of the third century A.D. as the chief inhabitants of Caledonia.2 They reappear in 360 A.D. as warlike barbarian

1 AEschylus, Prometheus Bound ll. 456-459, translated by J. S. Blackie, 195.
2 The name first appears in 296 A.D. in the oration of Eumenius to the Roman emperor Constantius Chlorus, which says: "the Caledonians and other Picts"-"Non dico Caledonum aliorumque Pictorum silvas at paludes, etc." (Latin panegyrics. Inc. Constantino Augusto, c.7.).

111

p.112: PHOENICIAN ORIGIN OF BRITONS & SCOTS

marauders in association with the Irish-Scots,1 breaking through the Antonine Wall between the Forth and Clyde, and raiding the Roman province to the south, whence they were driven back by Theodosius in 369. On the departure of the Roman legions in 411, their renewed depredations in South Britain became so incessant and menacing that the king of the South Britons, Vortigern, eventually invoked in 449 the aid of his kinsmen the Jutes from Denmark to expel them, with the well-known result that the Anglo-Jute mercenaries turned fiercely on their hosts and carved out by their swords petty kingdoms in South Britain for themselves. Thenceforward the Picts and Scots aided the Britons in defending against their common foe, the Anglo-Saxons, what remained of independent Briton in the western half of South Britain-Strath-Clyde or the Cambries2 from the Severn to the Clyde, with Wales and Cornwall, and Caledonia north of Northumbria.

In North Britain, from the sixth century to the eighth A.D., the Picts are disclosed in the contemporary histories of Columba and Bede, supplemented by the Pictish Chronicles, as occupying the whole of North Britain north of the Antonine Wall between the Clyde and Forth, except the south extremity of Argyle, which was occupied by Irish-Scots from Ulster. Besides this there are numerous references to "The Southern Picts"3 south of the wall and especially in the Galloway province of the Briton kingdom of Strath-Clyde, bordering the Solway, where St. Ninian in the fourth century converted "The Southern Picts," and built in 397 his first Christian church at Whitherne.4

1 The Scots as "Scoti" first appear under that name in history (apart from the Early British Chronicles) in 360 in the contemporary Roman history of the Roman military officer Ammianus Marcellinus (Bk. 20, i 1), and they are associated with the Picts in raiding the Roman province (see also Gildas c.19). From the accounts of Claudian, the Briton monk Gildas (about 546) and Bede, these Scoti were Irish-Scots who raided and returned to Ireland with their booty. See S.C.P. cvii.
2 "Cambries" is used by the contemporary historian Gildas the Younger as the title for the Briton kingdom of Strath-Clyde. See P.A.B. 1857, 49. etc. It included Cambria (Wales), Cumbria (Cumberland), Westmorland and Lancashire, and Strath-Clyde from Solway to Clyde.
3 Thus Bede, B.H.E. 3, 4.
4 So numerous were the Picts in Galloway, the people of which were called "Gall-Gaedhel" (S.C.P. cxciii) that in 741 the Irish-Scot king of Dalriada

p.113: SUDDEN DISAPPEARANCE OF "PICTS"

In South Britain no historical references are found to "Picts" as forming an element of the early population, though the subterranean dwellings called "Picts' Houses" are widely distributed, and are associated in Devon and Cornwall with the "Pixies;" and some place-names contain the element "Pict" (see later). And Caesar's statement about the general prevalence in Britain of polyandry of a promiscuous kind1 amongst the natives in the interior, and of the "interiores" as being clad in skins2 probably referred to the Picts, as Caesar describes the Britons whom he met as being richly garbed.

In Ireland also, Picts are not mentioned under that Latin nickname, but they are generally identified with the "Cruithne," though this title, as we have seen, is used ambiguously, and does not properly belong to the Picts at all. That the Picts were of the same kindred as the aboriginal Irish Feins, is evident from the numerous records that the Picts in Scotland were in the habit of obtaining wives from Ireland3 and that their matrilinear succession and use of the Irish "Celtic" were derived from the same.4

Then, in the middle of the ninth century A.D., with the final conquest of the "Northern Picts" in 850 by the Scot king Kenneth, son of Alpin, from Galloway, and his establishment as "King of the Scots "and his introduction of the name "Scot-land5 for North Briton," the "Picts" completely disappeared from history as suddenly as they first appeared. No historical trace of that race is to be found thereafter, notwithstanding that there is no evidence whatever of any exodus or any wholesale massacre of these people. 6

As a result presumably of this complete disappearance of

established himself there as "King of the Picts" (ib. clxxxvii); and St. Mungo or Kentigern of Glasgow (601 A.D.), the bishop of Strath-Clyde cleansed from idolatry "the home of the Picts which is now called Galwietha [i.e. Galloway] and its adjacent parts" (Kentigern's Life by Jocelyn of Furness.)

1 D.B.G. v, 14, 4-5.
2 Ib. v. 14, 2.
3 S.C.P., 123, 160, 298 etc.
4 Ib. xcviii v. 98.
5 Ib. 200, 299.
6 In one chronicle (Scala chronica) it is stated that in 850, at a conference at Scone, the Irish Scots by stratagem "slew the king and the chief nobles" of the Picts (S.C.P. cxci), but there is no reference or suggestion anywhere to any massacre of the people themselves.

p.114: PHOENICIAN ORIGIN OF BRITONS & SCOTS


this people, the name "Pict" has tended to become mythical; and the Picts are described in medieval and later folklore as malicious fairy dwarf folk, pigmies, pixies, fauns and elves; and significantly they are associated with the Irish fairies, the Fians, or Bans.

We are thus confronted by the questions: "Where did the Picts come from so suddenly?" and "Whither did they disappear just as suddenly?" Their sudden mysterious appearance and disappearance under the circumstances above noted suggested to me that both events were probably owing to a mere change in their tribal name as aborigines. And so it seems to prove.

"Pict" is an epithet, presumably a contemptuous nickname, applied to these people by outsiders, and never seems to have been used by these people themselves. It thus appears to be analogous to the terms "Greek" and "German" applied by the Romans to those two nations who never called themselves by these names. The term "Pict" appears to have been consciously used by the Romans (who are found to be the first users of it) in the sense of "painted" (pictus) with reference to the custom of these people to stain their skin blue with woad dye. In Scottish these people are called Peht,l in Anglo-Saxon Pihta, Pehta or Peohta,2 and in Norse Pett;3 and the Welsh bard Taliessin calls them Peith. These Norse and other forms, it will be noticed, contain no c, and are perhaps cognate with our English "petty," Welsh pitiw, and French petit, "small," to designate these people as dwarfish. And significantly it is seen from the map on p. 19 that the numerous Pictish villages in the neighbourhood of the Newton Stone and in the Don Valley, as similarly many towns over Britain generally, bear the prefix "Pit" or "Pet," presumably in the sense of Pict or the Anglo-Saxon "Pihta" or Scottish "Peht," to distinguish these native villages from the settlements of the Aryan rulers in the neighbourhood called "Cattie," "Cot-town," "Seati-ton," "Bourtie," &c. (See map).

1 J.S.D., 389, where also Pechty, Peaght and Pegh.
2 B.A.S., 182, "Peohta" is form used by King Alfred in his translation of Bede's "Picti."
3 See below.

p.115: ORIGIN OF NAME "PICT"

The remoter origin of the Nordic name Pett or Peht or Pihta, which was presumably latinized by the Romans into "Pict," seems to me to be probably found in the Vit or Vet or Vitr1 title in the Gothic Eddas for a chief of a clan of the primitive "Blue Leg" dwarfs of Van and Vindia, who is mentioned alongside Baomburr (who was obviously, as we have seen, the eponym of the Irish aboriginal Fomors) V, B and P, being freely interchangeable dialectically.

[This "Vit" means literally "witted" or "wise,"- and is also used in a personal sense as "witch" or "wizard," with the variant of "Vitt," "Vitki," literally "witch," and meaning "witch-craft and charms";3 and in a contemptuous general sense as Vetta and Vaett "a wight" and secondarily as "naught" or "nothing" or "nobody"4 and thus "petty"; and as Vetti and "Pit-(lor)", it is a Norse nickname.5 It thus appears probable that "Pett" or "Pihta" or "Pict" are later dialectic forms of the epithet Vit, Vet, or Vetta or Vitki applied contemptuously by the Early Goths to a section of the dwarf "Blue Leg" ancestors of the Picts, and designated them as "The petty Witch Wights," that is, the Witch-ridden devotees of the cult of the Matriarch witch or wise woman.]

This early association of the Picts with "petty" and witches would now seem to explain why in modern folklore these dwarfish people are associated and identified with Fauns, Fians, Pixies and wicked Fairies-indeed the modern word "wicked" is derived from "Witch" and thus seen to have its origin in the Gothic Vithi, "the wicked witch" title of the Van ancestors of the Picts, a people who all along appear to have been devotees of the cult of the Serpent and its Matriarchist witches and their magic cauldron.

Indeed, this "Vit" epithet for the Picts, or "Pihtas" of the Anglo-Saxons, appears to find some confirmation from Caesar's journal. While Caesar nowhere calls any of the people of Britain "Pict," he, even when referring to the natives of Britain staining their skin for war, does not use the word pictus or "painted;" but uses inficiunt (i.e., infect or

1 Vit-r (in which the final r is merely the Gothic nominative case-ending, in Volu-spa Edda (Codex Regius, p.1, l. 25); and "Vetr of Vind's vale" in Vaf-thrudnis Mal Edda (Cod. reg.p.15, ll. 20 and 22).
2 V.D., 713.
3 Ib. 713, 714.
4 Ib. 720.
5 Ib. 701, 477.

p.116: PHOENICIAN ORIGIN OF BRITONS & SCOTS

"tattoo"?). Yet curiously he is made to call the blue dye used for this purpose "Vitro," a word which is interpreted as "Woad" by classic scholars solely in translating this passage, though elsewhere in Latin it invariably means "glass."1 This suggests that there is some corruption in the copies of Caesar's manuscript here; and that "Vitro" of the text may perhaps have been intended by Caesar for the Gothic "Vitr" title for the "Blue-legged" dwarfs or the "Picts."

Another early form of this nickname of " Pict " for the aborigines of Alban appears to me to be found in the title of "Ictis,"2 applied by the early Ionian navigator Pytheas to the tin-port of Britain, a name identified also by some with the Isle of Wight. This tradition is confirmed by the name given to the Channel in the Pict Chronicles in describing the arrival in Alban of the Britons under Brutus, where the English Channel is called "The Sea of Icht."3 This presumes that South Britain was possibly then named after its aborigines of those days, the Vichts, Ichts or Picts; just as at the other extremity we have the "Pentland Firth," which was earlier known to the Norse as the "Pett-land Fjord"4 or "Firth of the Petts (or Picts)," from its bounding "The Land of the Picts." Indeed, the Danish writer of the twelfth century, Saxo Grammaticus, calls Scotland "Petia" or "Land of the Picts." This would now explain the statement of the Roman historian that a nation of the Picts in Britain was called "The Vect-uriones."5

The proper name for the "Picts," as used presumably by themselves in early times, was, I think, from a review of all the new available evidence, the title "Khal-dis" or Khal-tis,

1 Moreover, the scientific name of the Woad plant is "Isatis tinctoria," and not Vitrum.
2 "Iktis" is the form of the name preserved by Diodorus Siculus (Bibl. Hist. v., 22); and it has been identified with the "Vectis" of Pliny, who, however, places it between South Britain and Ireland, whilst he confounds "Ictis" as "Mictis" apparently with Thule. For discussion on Ictis v. Vectis and "Mictis," see H.A.B., 499, etc. The initial V often tends to be lost or become merged with its following vowel in Greek, see later, so that "Ictis" may represent an earlier Vectis.
3 S.C.D. 57.
4 See Edda V.P., 2, 682.
5 Ammianus Marcellinus, 27, viii., 5.

p.117: PICTS AS CHALDEES OR CALED-ONS

i.e., "The Children of the River (Khal or Gully)."1 This title of "Khaldis" is applied to the aborigines of Van in Asia Minor in the numerous sacred monuments erected by their Aryan overlords there in the ninth century B.C. and later. And concurrently with this title they also called themselves (from their old home-centre "Van," "Wan" or "Fen" Fian or Fein), Biam or "Ban," like their branch which first peopled Erin.

Now, this riverine title "Khal-dis" appears to be not only the source of the ethnic name "Caled-on" but also the source of the numerous ancient river-names in Britain called variously Clyde or Clotia, Clwyd, Cald, Caldy, Calder and Chelt; and such names as the Chilt-ern Hills and Chelten-ham near the old prehistoric dwellings at Gloster, as well as the title of Columba's mission to the Pictish aborigines - "Culdee." This application of the name "Caled-on" to the Picts is confirmed, as we have seen, by the Roman reference to the Picts as "Caledons"; and it is emphasized by the further Roman record that " he Picts are divided into two nations, the Di-Caled-ones and the Vect-uriones,"2 in which "Vect" appears to be cognate with "Pict." "Caled" (or Caled-on ) thus seems to have been the early title used by the Picts for themselves;3 and, as we shall see in the next chapter, it is cognate through its original "Khal-dis" or "Khal-tis" with "Chaldee," "Galati" and "Kelts" or "Celts."

Identified in this way with the cave-dwelling, dwarfish, dark Vans or Wans and gipsy "Chals" of Van and Galatia in Asia Minor, whose prehistoric line of migration westwards overland to Western Europe and Britain has already been traced, the Picts also, who were also cave-dwellers, appear to have left traces of their "Pict" or "Pit" title in some places en route, as well as in Britain and Ireland, in addition to their Van name.

1 On this name, see before, also next chapter.
2 A.M.H., 27, viii, 5.
3 Tacitus speaks of "the red hair and large limbs of the inhabitants of Caledonia" (Agricola II); but he is speaking not of aboriginal Caledons, but of the ruling race in Caledonia who were opposing Agricola, and who, we have seen, were Britons and Scots properly so-called.

p.118: PHOENICIAN ORIGIN OF BRITONS & SCOTS

[In Iberia (and the Picts, we shall see, were of the Iberian physical type) the Vett-ones inhabited in the Roman period the valley of the great Guadalquivir.1 Pictavia was the ancient name for Piccardy2, a division of Gaul stretching from Iberia northwards to Britanny, and it was inhabited by the Pictones; and its chief capital still bears the Pictish name of Poitiers which significantly is in the province of "Vienne", obviously a variant of Van or "Bian".

In Britain, south of the Tweed, the old place-names bearing the prefix "Pit" and "Pet" have not survived so freely as those of "Wan" and "Venta." The ancient village of "Pitchley" in Northampton in the Wan's Dyke area was still called in Domesday Book "Picts-lei" and "Pihtes-lea"3 that is, the "lea of the Picts"; and it contains, as we shall see, prehistoric, human remains, presumably of the Pictish period. In Surrey are the villages of Pett, Petworth, the "Peti-orde" of Domesday - and Pettaugh. Glastonbury in Somerset, with its prehistoric lake-dwellings, was called "Ynys Vitr-ain" or "Isle of Vitr-land," thus preserving the Gothic form of the Pictish eponym. "Pet-uaria" was the chief town between York and the Wash, in Ptolemy's day; it was in the Fens presumably of the lake-dwelling Vans or Fens, and to its north is a "Picton" in the valley of the Tees.

In Scotland, which was called "Pictavia" in medieval Latin histories and the Pict Chronicles, the prefix "Pit" and "Pet" is common in old village names, and presumably preserves the title of the aboriginal Picts for these villages of the natives, to distinguish them from the settlements of the ruling Aryan race in the adjoining villages called "Catti" and "Barat." For numerous series of these ancient village Pit names in Sharp contrast with the "Catti" and "Barat" villages studding the Don Valley of Old Pictland around the Newton Stone, see Map, p. 19. One of these "Pit" names, it is noteworthy, is "Pit-blain," that is "The Bluc Pit or Pict," in which the word for "blue" is the identical British Gothic word "blain," used in the Eddas for "The Blue Leg" tribe of dwarfs. And the "Pent-land" Hills to the south of the Forth preserve the same "Pict" title as the "Pentland" Firth does to the north, and in Shetland, in addition to the saga references to Picts, there are several places named Petti.4

1 The ancient Baetis river of Baetica. S. 3, i, 6.
2 "Piccard-ach" was an ancient name for the Southern Picts in Scotland, S.C.P. 74-76.
3 A. W. Brown Archaeolog. Jour. 3-13, cited W.P.A., 180.
4 Petti-dale and Pett-water on border of Tingwall parish, and Petti-garth Fell, and at Fetlar is "The Finn's Dyke" (Finni-girt Dyke).

p.119: PICTS AS ABORIGINES OF ALBION

In Ireland, in an Irish epic tale of the first century A.D., Picts arc located in Western Ulster.1 But in the earlier period of the Irish legends the Picts are clearly, I think, the same primitive people who are called "The tribe of Fidga,"2 of the plain of "Fidga," a locality not yet located. These "Fidga" are repeatedly mentioned as opposing the Sun-worshippers (i.e. the Aryan overlords), and derived their origin from Britain (Albion); they used poison weapons, and were defended by two double-headed Serpents3 showing that they were, like the Picts and Vans, devotees of the Serpent-cult. This Irish form of their name is in series with the Welsh name for the Picts, namely "Fficht;" and they appear to have been of the same primitive race as the Van or Fen (or early Fein).]

This racial position for the Picts as the primitive pre-Aryan aborigines of Britain and Ireland in the Stone Age, thus confirms and substantiates, but from totally different sources, the theory of their non-Aryan nature advanced by Rhys. This philologist believed that the Picts were the non-Aryan aborigines of Britain, merely because of a few non-Aryan words occurring in ancient inscriptions in Scotland, which he surmised might be Pictish,4 though this surmise was not generally accepted.5 Nor did he find traces of such Pictish. words in England or Wales, besides "The Sea of Icht," although he believed he found one solitary word in Ireland.6

In physical type, the Picts, according to general tradition, were dark "Iberian," small-statured and even pygmy,7 more or less naked, with their skins "tinged with Caledonian or Pictish woad."8 They have been allied to the semi-Iberian Basques,9 whose language was radically non-Aryan, on

1 Tain bo Cualnge, J. Dunn, 1914, xvii, 375.
2 Tuath Fidga.
3 Book of Leinster, 15a and R.H.L. 631 and 641.
4 Rhind Lects, 1889; P.S.A.S. 1892, 305, etc.; Welsh People,1902, 13, etc.
5 H.A.B., 409g., etc.
6 This was inferred by him on the theory that the "Cruthni" designated Picts (Welsh People 1902, 13). But on the other hand he holds the opposite view that "Cruthni" was a Celtic spelling of "Priten" or "Briton," which name, he thinks, means "Cloth clad," to distinguish the Aryan Britons or "Pritens" from the non-Aryan aborigines or Picts, which mutually destroys his argument.
7 MacRitchie M.F.P., etc. He cites a fifteenth-century account of early pygmy Picts in Orkney, Monthly Rev. Jan. 1901, 141.
8 Wharton, on Milton.
9 R.R.E., 375.

p.120: PHOENICIAN ORIGIN OF BRITONS & SCOTS

account of the latter occupying the old Pictavia region on the border of Iberia. Their primitive habits and living in caves and underground burrows or "Pict-dwellings," like the Vans or Khaldis,1 as well as their immemorial occupation of the land, have doubtless accounted for their being in modern folklore identified with malignant fauns, Fians and Pixies, which latter name seems to preserve "Pict."

The early prehistoric Picts thus appear to have been the primitive aborigines of Albion in the late Old Stone Age and early Neolithic Age whose long-headed, narrow and low-browed skulls (see Fig. 22, p. 135) are mostly found in the lower strata of the ancient river-beds, and hence termed by Huxley "The River-bed" type. The peculiar, though unsuspected, literal appropriateness of this title will be obvious when we recall that these people seem to have actually called themselves "The Children of the River" (Khal-dis or "Caleds") presumably through their finding their primitive livelihood along the river-banks and river-beds.

This river-bed race of primitive dwarfish men was shown by Huxley to have been widely distributed in remote prehistoric times over the British Isles, from Cornwall to Caithness, and over Ireland, and also over the European continent from Basque and Iberia eastwards.

[He especially records it from the Trent Valley of Derbyshire, in the Ledbury and Muskham skulls,2 in Anglesea, the Thames Valley. In Ireland it is seen in the river-bed skulls of the Nore and Blackwater in Queen's County and Armagh.3 He also observed this type of skull in the more ancient prehistoric sites on the European continent from Gaul and Germany and Switzerland to the Basque country (Picardy) and Iberia.4 And he significantly added that he suspected that it would be found in the inhabitants of Southern Hindustan --which it has been in the dark aborigines of Central and Southern India,

1 We have seen that the old and existing cave-dwellings and subterranean burrows of the Vindia region west of Van are of the same general characteristic prehistoric subterranean Picts' Houses and "Weems" or cave-dwellers in Early Albion. Thus the name "Pitten-weem" for a seaport on the Forth coast, with a series of caves with prehistoric human remains, and meaning "Caves of the Pitts or Picts" is especially obvious as an early settlement of cave-dwelling Picts.
2 L.H.C., 120, etc.; 123, etc.
3 Ib. 123, 125, etc,
4 Ib.136.

p.121: PICTS PREHISTORIC RIVER-BID TYPE

the Dravids or Doms-just as he had already found it in the dark aborigines of Australia,1 one of the lowest of the most primitive savage races of the present day. And his inferences have been fully justified.]

This widespread prevalence of the river-bed type of men in the Stone Age is confirmed and considerably extended backwards by Sir Arthur Keith in his classic "Antiquity of Man," recording mostly fresh discoveries and observations of his own. He establishes the fact that this type of river-bed skull existed over Britain as far back in the Old Stone Age as about 25,000 years ago, in the Langwith Cave in Derbyshire;2 and at a somewhat later period in the Oban Cave in Scotland with Azilian (or Mentone) culture of the Old Stone Age, and at Aberavon, east of Swansea, and in Kent's Cavern at Torquay. In the Neolithic age of about eight thousand years ago it is found in the Tilbury man of the Thames Valley, who resembled the race of equal age found at Vend-rest (a name suggestive of the "Vend" title of the Picts), about sixty miles east of Paris. It is also found in the same Neolithic Period in the great megalithic tomb at Coldrum in the Medway Valley of the Kent Downs, near the famous Kit's Coty cromlech, where these long-headed people were still of relatively small stature-the men averaging 5 feet 4 inches and the women 5 feet, that is about 3 inches below the modern British average, though the brain had now reached practically the modern standard with a skull width of 77.9 per cent. of the length.3 And significantly the large Neolithic village of pit-dwellings, with rude pottery and finely worked flint implements in the neighbourhood at "Ight-ham," seems to preserve in the latter name "Ight-ham" or "Hamlet of the Ight," the later shortened title of the Picts, in series with the southern dialectic form of Pliny's "Vectis" for the Isle of "Wight," and "Ictis," the old Irish name for the English Channel, and the Eddic Veig, Vige, Vit and Vikti forms of the eponym for "Pict."4 This modern name thus appears to preserve the old designation of that

1 L.H.C., 130.
2 K.A.M., 89, etc.
3 K.A.M., 22.
4 See before.

p.122: PHOENICIAN ORIGIN OF BRITONS & SCOTS

ancient Neolithic village of pit-dwellers as "Hamlet of the Picts."1

At Pitchley also, in Northamptonshire, an ancient village with a church building of the twelfth century, which is called in Domesday Book "Pihtes-lea" and "Picts-lei"-names clearly designating it as "The Lea of the Picts"-the skulls unearthed from the numerous old stone-cists of a prehistoric cemetery under the church, and under the early Saxon graves, with no trace of metals and presumably of late Neolithic Age, appear to be of this river-bed type. One of the typical skulls is described as "having the peculiar lengthy form, the prominent cheek-bones and the remarkable narrowness of the forehead which characterize the 'Celtic' races"2 (see Fig. 22, p. 135).

In Ireland this river-bed type of Stone Age skull is also found as above noted. And we have seen that the Matriarch Cesair and her Ban or Van or Fen horde of the Fomor clan entered Ireland in the Neolithic Age presumably from Britain and were of the same Van or Vind race to which the Picts belonged. We have also seen that these primitive aborigines of Ireland were called "The tribe of Fidga," that is a dialectic form of "Pict," in series with the Welsh "Ffichti." This suggests that the river-bed aborigines of Ireland also were presumably the Picts. It seems, too, a dialectic form of the same name which is given as "Gewictis" for the aborigines of Ireland in the account of the invasion of Ireland by the Iber-Scots3 or Scots from Iberia, especially as it was usual to spell the analogous Wight, or Vectis, with an initial G.

The Mother-Right, or Matri-linear form of succession through the mother and not through the father, which was prevalent amongst the later historical Picts down to the ninth century, when they suddenly disappear from history, is now explicable

1 Another skeleton, found in a "circumscribed" cist of Neolithic age at Maidstone, is described by B. Poste as having the skull "very narrow in the front part and also in the forehead," but stature about five feet seven. - Jour. Archaeol. Assoc., iv, 65, cited W.P.A., 182.
2 A.W. Brown in Archaeol. Jour. iii, 113, cited W.P.A., 180-1.
3 This chronicle states that a Scot from Spain (Iberna), named Iber-Scot, on landing "in yat cuntre, yat now is callit Irland, and fund it vakande, bot of a certanne of Gewictis, ye quhilk he distroyt, and inhabyt yat land, and callit it eftir his modir Scota, Scotia." S.C.P., 380.

p.123: PICTS AS ABORIGINES OF IRELAND

by the Matriarchist Van origin of this race. The Pictish Chronicles, both of the Irish-Scots and the Picts of Scotland, make repeated and pointed reference to this custom and it is borne out by the lists of the Pictish kings. These show that the Pictish king was not succeeded by his own son, but by his brother, the next son of his mother, or by his sister's son; and many of the kings appear to be named after their mother, or specified as the son of their mother. The Picts in Scotland, probably to excuse themselves in the eyes of the Scots and Britons who were of the Aryan patrilinear society, state in their Chronicles that this custom was imposed on them by "the women of Ireland," with whom they appear to have kept up some kindred intermarriage. But it is significant that these aboriginal women of Ireland are not stated to be the "wives" of the men they consort with, but it is said "each woman was with her brother,"1 which is suggestive of the primitive Matriarchist promiscuity before the institution of Marriage. These aboriginal women, called "Ban," (i.e. Van or "Biani") are stated to have imposed the matrilinear contract by oath:-

"They imposed oaths on them
By the stars, by the earth,
That from the nobility of the Mother
Should always be the right of reigning."2

It was probably Part-olon's attempts to abolish this Matriarchist promiscuity and mother-right by the introduction of the Aryan custom of marriage with patrilinear succession, which is referred to in the Pictish Chronicles as one of the great offences of "Cruithne" (i.e. Pruthne or Part-olon), that he "took their women from them."3 Another vestige of this ancient matriarchy in Ireland appears in the custom in the first century B.C. by which a married woman retained her private fortune independent of her husband.4

It was this Pictish promiscuity presumably, regarding which

1 Books of Ballymote and Lecan, S.C.P., 39.
2 Ib. S.C.P. 40.
3 Book of Lecan, S.C.P., 47.
4 Cf. Dunn Tain bo Cual. (xviii).

p.124: PHOENICIAN ORIGIN OF BRITONS & SCOTS

Caesar makes his remarkable statement that "the inland non-agricultural people" who were clad in skins and stained their skins blue (i.e., obviously the Picts): "by tens or twelves together have wives in common, and the offspring is credited to him who first had the mother as a virgin."1 This is believed by some writers to be a misunderstanding by Caesar. And in view of the briefness of his visit, confined to only a few months' strenuous campaigning in the south-east corner of England, in a foreign country, and dependent on interpreters, it seems probable that it is one of his several mistaken statements,2 and that the Pictish custom in question was not polyandry, but matriarchy.

The Serpent-worship of the Picts also, which was so universal, as seen everywhere on the prehistoric monuments in Pictlands, and figuring freely also on the early Christian monuments and "Celtic" crosses of the Picts, is now explained by the matriarchist Van or Fen origin of this race. We have seen the prominence of the Serpent-cult Witch's Bowl or Cauldron amongst the Feins of prehistoric Ireland, and the Serpent guardians there of the Tribe of the "Fidga," i.e., the Picts, the Serpent-cult enmity against the Sun-worshipping heroes Diarmait and Conn of the Irish-Scots, and the widespread carving of the Serpent and its coiled symbols on the prehistoric stone monuments in Ireland, and how St Patrick the Scot in the fifth century A. D. traditionally banished the Serpent-cult from Ireland and demolished the chief Matriarchist idol. In Britain, the Serpent and its interlacing coils are freely sculptured on many of the prehistoric monuments and early Christian crosses. In Scotland, the last refuge of the Picts, where their early monuments have most largely escaped destruction, this symbolism is especially widespread and occurs on many of the several hundreds of prehistoric monuments and early Christian crosses figured by Dr. Stuart in his classic Sculptured Stones of Scotland, and it is well exemplified in the great prehistoric "Serpent Stone," which now stands alongside the Newton Stone.

1 D.B.G., v, 5. Cf. H.A.B., 414, etc.
2 E.g., His statement that the Pine and Beech do not grow in Britain, D.B.G., v., 5.

p.125: PICTS ARRIVE IN ALBION IN STONE AGE

In Cornwall, the prehistoric whorls of pierced stone, called "Pixies' grindstones," and presumably amulets, are also called "Snake stones."1 This Serpent-cult character of the Picts would explain the prevalence of human sacrifice amongst the Druid priests of the aborigines who were of this lunar matriarchist cult, and also the historical notices of the existence of cannibalism amongst the barbarian tribes of Caledonia as late as the time of St. Jerome (fourth century A.D.),2 as well as the traditional immolation of a victim by St. Columba in founding his first church at Iona for the "Culdees" or Picts.

It thus transpires by the new evidence that the "Picts" were the primitive small-statured prehistoric aborigines of Albion or Britain with the "River-bed" type of skulls. They were presumably a branch of the primitive small-statured, narrow-browed and long-headed dark race of matriarchist Serpent-worshipping cave-dwellers of the Van Lake region, the Van, Biani, Fen, or Khal-dis or primitive "Chaldees," Caleds or Caledons, who, in early prehistoric times in the Old Stone Age, sent off from this central hive swarm after swarm of "hunger-marchers" under matriarchs, westwards across Asia Minor to Europe, as far as Iberia and the Biscay region, after the retreating ice. The hordes, which ultimately reached Albion overland, formed there the "aborigines" of Albion. They appear to have entered Southern Albion by the old land-bridge at Kent, after the latter end of the last glacial period, when the reindeer, mammoth and woolly rhinoceros still roamed over what is now called England. And then, long ages afterwards, in the late Stone Age, presumably before 2000 B.C., they gave off a branch to Erin under a Van, Ban or Fian matriarch, forming the aborigines of Ireland.

Having thus elicited the apparent solution to the long outstanding problem of "Who are the Picts"- the primitive non-Aryan race over which the Aryan Part-olon and his successors, the "Brude," "Bret," or Briton kings ruled in Scotland,-and found that they were the aborigines of Albion, we are now in our search for the first advent of the

1 Cf. L.H.C., 49.
2 Ib. 30.

p.126: PHOENICIAN ORIGIN OF BRITONS & SCOTS

Aryans into Britain before Part-olon's epoch, still faced by an equally enigmatic and hitherto unsolved problem. This is the vexed question "Who were the Celts?" For the "Celts" have been supposed by philologists to be Aryans in race, and to be the first Aryan civilizers of Britain, whilst anthropologists find that they are not racially Aryan at all.

morfrain_encilgar
Tuesday, May 24th, 2005, 08:58 PM
I agree, Its unknown what the Pictish language was related to, or even if it was within Indo-European. Its not possible to be sure though it was spoken of as seperate from the other languages that were used in Britain.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Wednesday, May 25th, 2005, 04:25 AM
The idea that they were Iberian makes sense to me. Also interesting is the description of the Pict homes as underground. Didn't the inhabitants of the Oakneys and Faeroe Islands build undergound houses or houses partially sunk into the earth and lined with rock?

morfrain_encilgar
Wednesday, May 25th, 2005, 06:51 AM
The idea that they were Iberian makes sense to me.

If you mean from Iberia, or North Africa, then its certain that in the Mesolithic and later there was migration into Britain from the Western Mediterranean, however if youre referring to the Iberian language then nobody knows what Iberians spoke either. Theres no Basque substratum in Spanish, so Iberian wouldnt seem to be related to Basque. Its another mysterious language.

Vanir
Wednesday, May 25th, 2005, 08:19 AM
Here is a chapter on the Picts I just scanned for people's viewing pleasure from the book "Languages of the British Isles" by W.B Lockwood, if anyone is interested.

The files sizes are a little large averaging at 250kb, but I kept it that way for legibility...

Apparently it was referred to as "Iron Speech" so it must have sounded quite harsh. They were there since forever, had a matriarchal system, worshipped Serpents, etc, all rather non IE features, so why academic consensus finds it so difficult to draw the dots and conclude pictish was non IE I can't understand :scratchhe Australian Aboriginies are all related racially (duh), yet IIRC there were many different language families present amongst the hundreds of different aboriginal languages despite their racial affiliation.

I often wonder about the pre-germanic words in the germanic languages, I'd love to have seen what the original language was like before IE swept it out of NE.

But I'll stop rambling.

Vanir
Wednesday, May 25th, 2005, 08:21 AM
Typically had to be one too many to all fit into the one post....

Sigel
Wednesday, May 25th, 2005, 11:49 AM
Good post Surt.

Try this link:

The Picts and the Martyrs
Did Vikings kill the native population of Orkney and Shetland?
A paper by Brian Smith

http://www.orkneyjar.com/history/vikingorkney/warpeace/index.html

It's worth following the links forward. There's plenty of good debate.

morfrain_encilgar
Wednesday, May 25th, 2005, 03:51 PM
It's worth following the links forward. There's plenty of good debate.

The Picts were culturally distinct from the natives of the Orkneys. The natives of the Orkneys are the ones who built the brochs and its recorded that the Pictish king recieved "hostages" from Orkney.

Frans_Jozef
Wednesday, May 25th, 2005, 11:43 PM
If you mean from Iberia, or North Africa, then its certain that in the Mesolithic and later there was migration into Britain from the Western Mediterranean, however if youre referring to the Iberian language then nobody knows what Iberians spoke either. Theres no Basque substratum in Spanish, so Iberian wouldnt seem to be related to Basque. Its another mysterious language.

Wales was colonized by people using implements of the Ahrenburger Culture, which means that there was either a migration wave of Southerners who for some reason prefered a tool kit of North European fabric, or this population really departed from the Netherlands, Jutland and North Germany to Britain using the landbridge which now rest under the Channel.

Helith
Friday, May 27th, 2005, 09:39 AM
If you're interested in Picts you might also find this one interesting:

Elizabeth Sutherland: In Search of the Picts

I don't know if it's available as a net version though... :scratch:

Vanir
Friday, May 27th, 2005, 09:43 AM
If you're interested in Picts you might also find this one interesting:

Elizabeth Sutherland: In Search of the Picts

I don't know if it's available as a net version though... :scratch:

HAHA I bought the hardcover copy of that when it first came out, I was that desperate I couldn't wait for the cheaper paperback edition. There is an interesting chapter in Pictish carvings actually being a written "pictogram" language, though intriguing as the idea is, I have my doubts about it. I might scan the chapter in question as well if I'm feeling bold :D

beowulf wodenson
Friday, May 27th, 2005, 07:42 PM
The Pictii are indeed an interesting subject. My take on them from my readings is that they were the native Celtic or Celticized descendants of the Caledonian tribes described by Tacitus in Agricola. I believe it's been postulated that they spoke a now-defunct Brythonic Celtic language similar in nature to that spoken by the Britons. The theory is that the 'Pictish' culture and language were replaced by that of the Gaelic Scotti invaders from Ireland that eventually expanded from their kingdom of Dal Riata to take over Pictland as well, founding what's now Scotland in the 10th century, or so I seem to remember from reading.

Vanir
Friday, May 27th, 2005, 07:57 PM
The Pictii are indeed an interesting subject. My take on them from my readings is that they were the native Celtic or Celticized descendants of the Caledonian tribes described by Tacitus in Agricola. I believe it's been postulated that they spoke a now-defunct Brythonic Celtic language similar in nature to that spoken by the Britons. The theory is that the 'Pictish' culture and language were replaced by that of the Gaelic Scotti invaders from Ireland that eventually expanded from their kingdom of Dal Riata to take over Pictland as well, founding what's now Scotland in the 10th century, or so I seem to remember from reading.

Hmmm, my problem with the picts speaking an IE language is just that their society seemingly was ordered around concepts clearly non IE (matriarchal, serpent symbolism/worship) St.Patrick needed a translator to talk with them, as their language was referred to as being seperate from P & Q Celtic, backed up by the fact that the (admittedly small) corpus of Pictish scripts still remains untranslatable to this day, and many personal names and place names are pre IE in origin (Thames, etc)

Who can say what physical type best represented the Picts, though again I lean toward that small, dark "Iberian" type, as that type seems to have been prevalent in Britain since ancient times, though there clearly were large, fair people in Scotland at that time, as the Romans fought them...

Wiseman
Sunday, May 29th, 2005, 12:49 PM
Several Pre-Christian IE societies were matriarchal in nature.

Vanir
Sunday, May 29th, 2005, 10:58 PM
Several Pre-Christian IE societies were matriarchal in nature.

Which ones? I was always under the impression that, in general, the pre-IE peoples were matriarchal, but the IE migrations supplanted this with their patriarchal system.

Theudanaz
Monday, May 30th, 2005, 07:45 PM
You mean related to the Basques?




Who can say what physical type best represented the Picts, though again I lean toward that small, dark "Iberian" type, as that type seems to have been prevalent in Britain since ancient times, though there clearly were large, fair people in Scotland at that time, as the Romans fought them...

jacque
Monday, May 30th, 2005, 08:18 PM
That pic is neat


Jac

Vanir
Monday, May 30th, 2005, 11:49 PM
You mean related to the Basques?

I mean that whoever they were, they were of the same vintage (if you like) as the Basques more than likely it seems to me. (Of the original small, dark European strain)

Can't say I base that opinion on anything solid, as I don't believe I have ever seen or heard of any relevant genetic studies being carried out in this regard.

Have you known of any qualifiable efforts to place the Pictish language into a language family? Or does it remain unclassifiable like Etruscan?

On a humourous note, someone's theory that the band AC/DC best represented the Pictish "type" :laugh: ...
http://dodona.proboards35.com/index.cgi?board=raceclass&action=display&num=1093125740

Though I suppose that, all things considered, it is a little simplistic to try to pigeon-hole them into one pure population, by the time the Picts were established as a distinct ethnicity/nation they were probably a stable blend of the older dark iberian types along with fair "celtic" types

Agrippa
Wednesday, June 1st, 2005, 12:29 AM
Several Pre-Christian IE societies were matriarchal in nature.

Thats absolute nonsense. Even matrilinearity was the exception, but did occur of course, matriarchy after the classical definition (Bachofen) probably never existed in Europe and for sure it is not proven in IE groups, impossible in late IE groups after what we know even before Christianity.
You should distinguish matrilinearity and matriarchy.

Vanir
Wednesday, June 1st, 2005, 12:41 AM
You should distinguish matrilinearity and matriarchy.

guilty as charged.

Matrilinearity.

Fionn
Sunday, June 11th, 2006, 07:53 PM
I made this thread to attempt to gather as much information as possible together about the Picts. I really don't know about this ancient group, and it appers that no one really does. What did they look like? What language did they speak? Were they Indo-European? Were they Celtic? I haven't been able to find much about them, but I'll start by sharing this link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picts

Oswiu
Sunday, June 11th, 2006, 11:03 PM
I would say that the placenames say it the most eloquently. Aberdeen is in the centre of Pictland, and bears a very 'Welsh' name.
The Picts would appear to have been a more traditionalist British group, distinguished from the rest of the P Celtic speakers of Great Britain by their having absorbed less Roman influence due to their position beyond the limes of Hadrian's Wall [though it would be mistaken to claim no influence]. Caesar's comments on the preRomanised southern Britons having polyandry and war paint and so on seem to indicate that the Picts were only different from the latter in their cultural conservatism.

Of course, if Celtic speech [and IE in general] is thought to have been introduced into Britain from without, some time before the Iron Age [and it's hard to argue against that], then there must have been something spoken here for millenia before that introduction, and survivals of it might most sensibly be looked for in the furthest extremities of the archipelago. The Oghams are notoriously difficult to read however, so any theorising in this direction will probably remain unproven.

Johann Bomber
Sunday, June 11th, 2006, 11:35 PM
The Picts were the offsprings of the first people living on the British islands, so they weren't really celtic. They supposedly had darker hair than the celts and germans. Untill about 500 b.c. , when the Celts (coming mainly from modern days France and Belgium) started to settle in nowadays England and Wales, the Picts supposedly lived in all parts of what we today call England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland. But their lands in England and Wales were very soon conquered by the celts, forcing the picts to concentrate on modern days Scotland, as Ireland was taken over by the celts, too.
When the Romans came to Britain there were some celts being pushed by the invaders into pictish terrytory. During the next decades the picts were partly celtisized (I suppose it's called like that), as they started to believe in many celtic gods and even mixed up their own language with tose of the celts. Maybe they already looked more like the celts - lighter hair etc.
When the Romans left Britain around 400 a.d. the inhabitants of Scotland (Caledonia) still were called picts, but they allready had little celtic genes.

In the next 3 hundred years the picts had more and more celtic influence coming over them, as from the west, the Scots and the Dal Riadans (celtic tribes from Ireland) conquered the westbank of later Scotland, and from the south, the Angles pushed the celts living in later Northumbria into pictish grounds.
By the time the Vikings conquered the scotish westbanks as the scots once did themselves, the original picts didn't really exist anymore. They were speaking celtic dialekts, felt like being celts and were mainly seen as celts by the Anglo-Saxons and the Vikings.
These latest picts supposedly looked quite germanic-celtic (light hair and eyes).
Nowadays scots are in fact of course of celtic decent, but also have pictish and germaic genes.

Bomber

Blutwölfin
Monday, June 12th, 2006, 06:39 AM
Might have been much easier to use the search option:

The Pictish Nation (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=42537&highlight=picts)
Picts (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=67&highlight=picts)
.. and seven more pages of posts..

Fionn
Thursday, June 15th, 2006, 05:48 PM
Thank you all for your responses.

Oswiu
Friday, June 16th, 2006, 12:26 AM
Don't rush!

Did you read this PDF? I broadly agree with the content;
http://eprints.gla.ac.uk/2081/01/languagepictland.pdf

Galaico
Saturday, June 24th, 2006, 12:23 AM
The Picts were not displaced by the Celts and surely weren't more darker than them. Actually, the Picts and the Brythonic Celts were the same people, Britanniae celts were celtized Picts. The Celtic language expanded through all Europe in a more cultural way, most of the times not following an invasion.

The Celtic language is of the IE family. If we accept the Kurgan theory, the IE languages started North to the Black Sea among people who carried the R1a haplotype, but the R1a is almost not found in the actual Celtic countries, what is more, recent studies don't find close genetic similarities between British & Irish celts with the ancient celts of central Europe.

The Western Celts, are more a Paleolithic Atlantic population, quite unaltered, that probably first adopted the Celtic language as a lingua franca.



Among Atlantic Celtic groups, the main line of attack is that – while there is strong evidence for linkages between Atlantic and Continental Celts – earlier assumptions that the Atlantic Celts must be the descendants of Continental Celts have largely been proven false. This finding has led some, including Richard Wagner of the Irish Institute, to assert that the Atlantic Celts are not Celts at all. Defenders of Celtic identity counter that the term has long referred to both Continental and Atlantic groups and is not dependant on any association between the two, so while revelations that the Atlantic Celts are an indigenous and not an immigrant group are of profound academic interest they are not particularly relevant to debates around the ethnic identitifications of the modern Celtic nations.
Recent genetic evidence seems to indicate that the populations of Ireland, Wales, Brittany, the Isle of Mann, and Galicia may be closely linked and have been remarkably stable for "at least 6,000 years". This would mean that their shared culture actually pre-dates the La Tène and Hallstatt Celtic cultures. This does not necessarily mean that these peoples are not "Celts", however. Rather it means that the historical understanding of who the Celts were and are may need to be revised.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Celts

keltikvikingsaxon
Friday, September 11th, 2009, 09:09 PM
Hi all,

I'm new and have never posted before, so I'm not sure if I'm doing this correctly? I hope so. I'm curious if anyone has heard of Picts settling in Alaska? If so, could you please share any and all information you have on this subject with me, or point me in the direction of a good book on the subject?

Thanks! :)

Blod og Jord
Sunday, March 11th, 2018, 04:15 AM
The Indo-European and Possibly Germanic Origins of the Picts

Over the last 100 years or so there has been much speculation over the nature of the language spoken by the ancient Picts. Some scholars see them as non Indo-Europeans, whilst others view them as being Indo-European. Of those that allign to the second view point they are generally divided into two camps: those that believe they were a Celtic people and those a Germanic. The Pictish Chronicle written in Latin states that the Picts were not aboriginal to Britain as many claim but came from "much further afield" (The Last of the Druids, Iain Forbes ) Candidates for this Urheimat include Thrace and Scythia, suggestive in itself of an Indo-European origin. The Picts apparently originally intended to settle in Ireland but were subsequently persuaded by the Irish king to settle in Scotland and were given Irish wives. Significantly the Scottish kings of the kingdom of Dalriada laid claim to the throne of the Picts via this matrilineal succession. It should be noted that the Scots themselves were not native to Scotland but were colonists from Ireland!

The issue of matrilineal succession was also referred to by the Venerable Bede in his A History of theEnglish Church and People. It is often argued by scholars that because of the matrilinear succession of Pictish kings that this marked them out as a distinctly non Indo-European people but by making this argument they ignore the statement made by Bede that this condition was forced upon the Picts by the Irish king as stated:

"So the Picts crossed into Britain, (WOTANS KRIEGERS NOTE: they crossed from Ireland) and began to settle in the north of the island, since the Britons were in possession of the south. Having no women with them, these Picts asked wives of the Scots, (WOTANS KRIEGER'S NOTE: the 'Scots' here referred to were the Scots from Ireland) who consented on condition that, when any dispute arose, they should choose a king from the female royal line rather than the male. This custom continues among the Picts to this day."
By inisting that the Picts choose their kings from the female line the Irish Scots ensured that they always had a controlling interest in the Picts. There is no evidence that this custom originated with the Picts and thus can not be put forward as an argument to deny that they were Indo-Europeans.

The reference to the Picts having originated in 'Scythia' is a common perception that reaches back to the days of the Roman Empire when it was considered that all barbarians came from Scythia, which was the great land mass to the east of the empire stretching in their eyes from eastern Germania to the Slavic lands and beyond. 'Scythia' in the context of Bede's work may be interpreted as being Scandinavia. It is likely that the colonising Picts were in fact a war band, hence the lack of women aboard their ships. Scandinavia would certainly be a good candidate and this would in all probabilty indicate that not only were the Picts Indo-European but Germanic. Indeed in the late 19th century the Earl of Southesk on studying both Pictish and Scandinavian carvings put forward the theory that they shared a common Germanic origin. (The Origins of Pictish Symbolism). Stephen Oppenheimer seems to also support a Scandinavian identity for Bede's 'Scythia' in his The Origins of the British:

"How they reached the British Isles from Scythia, east of the Mediterranean, Bede does not make clear, but elsewhere in Medieval literature the region of Scythia is sometimes alluded to as the ultimate Norse homeland in the Danish and Icelandic sagas. The longboats might imply the Picts were from Scandinavia, but in any case this story from Bede makes it clear that he did not think that they were British or Irish. His linguistic skill should have been enough to work this one out for himself."

Tony Steele in his The Rites and Rituals of Traditional Witchcraft makes the point that at one time it was considered by scholars that the megalith builders were non Indo-European, a notion that is no longer tenable.
"The archaeologist Colin Renfrew has shown that it is far more likely that Indo-European was introduced to Europe by the original Neolithic settlers, and so the megalithic builders were, in fact, Indo-European. In this connection it is worth pointing out that the territories of the Etruscans and Basques are notable for being devoid of megalithic remains-which is hardly true of the Picts."

Mr Steele makes this point as the Etruscans and Basques were among the minority of peoples in Europe who did not speak an Indo-European language and this helps to further discredit the theory that the megaliths were the product of a non Indo-European culture. Mr Steele also argues the case for Pictish being a Germanic language, partly based on the close proximity of northern Scotland with Scandinavia but concedes that it is "a very archaic and somewhat degenerate form of Germanic." Interestingly as an aside I would like to remind my readers at this point that Old English is now increasingly being considered as a more archaic language than hitherto thought and could be regarded as a separate subset of the Germanic language group. (Oppenheimer)

Professor Renfrew does not argue for a Germanic origin for the Pictish language but he does concede an Indo-European one for it:

"What language was spoken in Scotland, or what languages, is far from clear. We have evidence of personal names, and of place names, as preserved by classical writers and in early medieval sources (including the Pictish Chronicle, a list of kings in a Latin text put together in the middle of the ninth century), and in the place names of more recent times. There is some evidence to be derived from these sources which would not contradict the view that they represent a northern dialect of Brithonic, perhaps not unlike that spoken further south before the dominance of the Romans." (Archaeology & Language. The Puzzle of Indo-European Origins.)

This theory is also referred to by Stephen Oppenheimer:

"Pictish, formerly spoken in northern Scotland, is claimed to have been Brythonic, but whether this claim covers all languages present there in the first millenium AD, apart from Scottish Gaelic, is still disputed by a few." (The Origins of the British)

It is becoming increasingly clear that with the acceptance now that the megalithic builders were Indo-European (including those of Stonehenge), that the Belgic peoples who were present in southern Britain prior to the Roman conquest were Germanic and now the increasing possibility of not only the Indo-European but possibly the Germanic origins of the Picts it is time that the early history of Britain be re-examined in the light of these findings.http://celto-germanic.blogspot.com/2016/06/the-indo-european-and-possibly-germanic.html