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Hagalaz
Saturday, April 30th, 2005, 06:36 AM
I have noticed many striking similarities between the two as well as a few minor differences. I was wondering if anyone else could point out a few more and add to what I've already came across.

Perun vs. Thor

1. Both are descended (sons of) the all-father Gods - Odin / Svarog

2. Both carry a hammer - though it has been noted by scholars that Perun also holds an axe and a bow with arrows.

3. Both are thunder/lightning Gods worshipped primarily by the warrior class.

4. Both ride in chariots over the sky. Thor's chariot is led by magical goats, while Perun's is led by stallions.

5. Both are spirtually connected to the Oak tree.

6. Both have wives who represent fertility - Thor's wife = Sif. Perun's wife= Mokosh.

7. Both have a brother who is a mischievous trickster. Thor - Loki.
Perun - Veles.

8. Both have a great serpent enemy bound at the roots of the world tree.

tuddorsped
Saturday, April 30th, 2005, 12:30 PM
You have missed the most obvious connection; their name. Both mean 'thunderer' or 'striker'. Indeed they are essentially the same god.

Thor was the name given to a Celtic god, Jupiter Tanarus adopted by the Germans before the first sound-shift of 400-100 BC. Perun probably descends directly from the Vedic god Parjanya.

Disagree that Thor was worshipped by warriors. He was primarily a god of farming folk as he represented fertility in his aspect of weather god. Even his physical features were a stylised representation of the ceorls or stout Nordic yeoman.

You also missed out the swastika. As this was a sacred symbol of both gods and can be seen on many votive offerings and cult objects dedicated to them.

Todesritter
Saturday, April 30th, 2005, 01:01 PM
I have read the pagan Baltic speaking peoples, who fought against the Teutonic Knights, until their losses, forced their king to make the political choice of Christianizing, and forming a union with Catholic Poland, originally worshiped, liked the Aryan invaders of Northern India, and many others from this group, a familiar pantheon of gods. The fiercest bands who opposed the Teutonic Knights were those under the thunderbolt banner, fighting in the name of Perkun, god of Lighting, and Destiny.

Current dominant theory in academia is that the original Indo-Aryans six or 7,000 years ago had a very similar a pantheon to that of the ancient Celts, Germanics, Baltics, etc, as well as eastern branches of the group, such as the Tocharians who went extinct in what later became Western China, and Invaders who brought Indo-Aryan language to India.

Volkert Volkertsen
Sunday, May 1st, 2005, 08:18 AM
2. Both carry a hammer - though it has been noted by scholars that Perun also holds an axe and a bow with arrows.

Perun carries an oaken cudgel, not a hammer.


8. Both have a great serpent enemy bound at the roots of the world tree.

What's your source for this in regards to Perun?

Hagalaz
Sunday, May 1st, 2005, 08:40 AM
Perun carries an oaken cudgel, not a hammer.

"Perun's attributes were a horse, a chariot, an axe or hammer, stone arrows."
(http://balts.bravepages.com/myth3.htm)

"Perun's weapons are the axe and hammer, which both symbolize thunder and lightning"
(http://www.islandnet.com/~see/weather/almanac/arc2002/alm02aug2.htm)

"God of thunder from "per, perk or perg" - to strike. He is described as a rugged man with a copper beard. He rides in a chariot pulled by a he-goat and carries a mighty axe, or strely, sometimes a hammer."
(http://hometown.aol.com/hpsofsnert/Gods.html#perun)

Amongst various other websites.


Both have a great serpent enemy bound at the roots of the world tree.


What's your source for this in regards to Perun?

" Zaltys
The world serpent who lay coiled at the roots of the great world tree. He was the arch enemy of Perun, at whom Perun seemed to aim much of his lightening."

(http://hometown.aol.com/hpsofsnert/Gods.html)

"Zaltys, the serpent coiled at the roots of the World Tree, and an enemy of Perun"

(http://www.winterscapes.com/slavic.htm)

Amongst various other websites.

Volkert Volkertsen
Monday, May 2nd, 2005, 12:54 AM
Interesting. I was aware that he has sometimes been described as carrying an axe, but had never really come across references to him carrying a hammer. Or if I did, I overlooked it. Most sources refer to him as carrying a "дубина," or oaken club. This is usually considered to be due to his association with the oak tree.

EDIT: Not sure if my cyrillic will show up on Windows machines. It's in unicode, if that helps.

Triglav
Monday, May 9th, 2005, 08:49 PM
Interesting. I was aware that he has sometimes been described as carrying an axe, but had never really come across references to him carrying a hammer. Or if I did, I overlooked it. Most sources refer to him as carrying a "дубина," or oaken club. This is usually considered to be due to his association with the oak tree.

EDIT: Not sure if my cyrillic will show up on Windows machines. It's in unicode, if that helps.
I have (in reference to Perun's hammer), but a very long time ago, and the source is unfortunately lost.

Moreover, one must be aware of the gargantuan regional differences between the Slavic lands.