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Nordgau
Monday, April 18th, 2005, 08:51 PM
Okay, the second turn. :P What is your favourite Germanic language in respect of its whole character together, its sound, spirit, morphology and abilities?

Zyklop
Monday, April 18th, 2005, 09:05 PM
Deutsch!

Loki
Monday, April 18th, 2005, 09:15 PM
I have to say English (real English, not the rip-off and cheap American version). The fact that we are all communicating in English, even though it is not our native tongue, speaks volumes. I find it easier to express myself in English.

Death and the Sun
Monday, April 18th, 2005, 09:25 PM
English. It has to be, being the only language on the list I'm fluent in.

Volkert Volkertsen
Monday, April 18th, 2005, 09:41 PM
(real English, not the rip-off and cheap American version).

What kind (http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/1906/dialects.html) of American English?

If you're talking about the bland, boring crap that they speak on the evening news and in Hollywood, then I have to agree with you.

Anyway, my favorite Germanic tongue besides my own is Scots (http://www.scots-online.org/).

Loki
Monday, April 18th, 2005, 09:45 PM
What kind (http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/1906/dialects.html) of American English?

If you're talking about the bland, boring crap that they speak on the evening news and in Hollywood, then I have to agree with you.
I am talking about all American English - the simplified and dumbified spelling, the lack of traditional vocabulary usage and the terrible accent.

Volkert Volkertsen
Monday, April 18th, 2005, 09:50 PM
the lack of traditional grammar usage

And is this really any better in the various nooks and crannies of Britain? Or are you just comparing it to Oxford English?


and the terrible accent.

You've heard them all, then? If you visit places like Exmoor off the Virginia coast, to hear the people speak, you'd think you're in Cornwall (not that that's saying much, if you insist on RP as a standard).

Loki
Monday, April 18th, 2005, 10:21 PM
And is this really any better in the various nooks and crannies of Britain? Or are you just comparing it to Oxford English?
My preference is for real English, as I stated. Not any American twist of it. Although American accents differ by region, they all sound "American" to my ears and I don't like it.


You've heard them all, then? If you visit places like Exmoor off the Virginia coast, to hear the people speak, you'd think you're in Cornwall (not that that's saying much, if you insist on RP as a standard).
Nah, I don't care too much about RP. But RP is certainly a highly advanced means of communication which is dying out rapidly.

Gustavus Magnus
Monday, April 18th, 2005, 10:29 PM
Swedish. I like the way it is spoken, almost like singing.

anonymaus
Monday, April 18th, 2005, 10:30 PM
I wrote a buncha stuff before and I don't feel like repeating it, so: German for many reasons; I do love the more poetic sounding Scandinavian languages, but German resonates stronger with me it seems.

Fox
Monday, April 18th, 2005, 10:34 PM
My preference is for real English, as I stated. Not any American twist of it. Although American accents differ by region, they all sound "American" to my ears and I don't like it.


"Also significant beginning around 1600 AD was the English colonization of North America and the subsequent creation of a distinct American dialect. Some pronunciations and usages "froze" when they reached the American shore. In certain respects, American English is closer to the English of Shakespeare than modern British English is. Some "Americanisms" that the British decry are actually originally British expressions that were preserved in the colonies while lost at home (e.g., fall as a synonym for autumn, trash for rubbish, frame-up which was reintroduced to Britain through Hollywood gangster movies, and loan as a verb instead of lend)."

from http://www.wordorigins.org/histeng.htm

Nttfari
Monday, April 18th, 2005, 10:43 PM
Well, Icelandic and Faerose, but I'm biased. :D

Scots, Northern-Scots in particular, is a very interesting language, Northern-Scots is also heavily influenced by Norse lonewords.

Here's a story-poem in my favourite language!

sareiin
Grmur Thomsen

Jreyk sje jeg va vega
velta fram um himinskaut -
norurljsa skrast skraut. -
inn rur kaflega
endilanga vetrarbraut.

Spar himin sum feldi
Sigfair me reiddan geir,
hrafnar elta' og lfar tveir,
vgabrandar vgja eldi
veginn ann, sem fara eir.

Sleipnir tungla treur krapa,
teygir hann sig af meginrtt,
ftur ber hann tta tt,
stjrnur undan hfum hrapa
hart og ttt um kalda ntt.

Hlrrii mun eftir aka
sami bratta lei,
hamramt grpa hafrar skei,
undir taka bjrg og braka,
er bokkar skaka sarn rei.

Freyja v nst ekur ettir
eins og fuglinn ljett og snart
snertir bla vegu vart,
mjallahvtir msa kettir,
mala szt, en blsa hart.

Af lokkum Freyju og ljsum hvarmi
leggur bjarma himininn,
gullnum roa af rjri kinn;
hefir n hvtum armi
haglega gera rokkinn sinn.

synjur og sir sar
samt hera snarpa fer -
fremstan eirra Frey sjer, -
allir ra, utan Var,
flug hans er skager.

Enginn dyninn hfa heyrir,
hart knin goa dr
yfir kristalls bruni brr,
Heimdallur me horni keyrir,
hendina einu brkar Tr.

Valkyrjum feraflaumi
fylgja snugt Einherjar,
jr bls mugt margur ar,
Hlkvir samt Gota og Glaumi
og Grani strstur Sigurar.

Hildur rur hinst og rur,
hpinn prir mannval bezt,
Starkaur ar stikar mest,
Hkon jarl og Hrgabrur
heina reka noran lest.

llum fjarri frunautum
fara einar systur rjr,
svipmiklar me silfurhr,
himin varpa hlsa skautum,
hrkkvaaf augum frosin tr.

Jreykur um vegu va
veltur fram himinskaut
leiftrar gfugt geisla skraut -
Einherjar og sir ra
endilanga vetrarbraut.

IlPrincipe
Monday, April 18th, 2005, 10:48 PM
I would be stupid if i didnt say SVENSKA :viking3:

Volkert Volkertsen
Monday, April 18th, 2005, 11:06 PM
Nah, I don't care too much about RP.

Same here.


But RP is certainly a highly advanced means of communication which is dying out rapidly.

Well, sociolinguists call it an "overt prestige sociolect" (as opposed to something like Cockney or Geordie, which would be considered "covert prestige" varieties, except in the confines of certain locales). For communicative purposes, though, it's really no better or worse than any other speech variety.

Anyway, I can't say I'm sorry to see it go the way of the dodo. Being a man of tradition, the various British regional accents sound so much more pleasing to my ear than a rigidly enforced, artificially constructed standard forced on the folk from above.

Lissu
Monday, April 18th, 2005, 11:06 PM
There are still at least couple of Germanic languages missing:

Afrikaans :)

and

Yiddish :icon_evil

Also Finlandswedish is quite different from "continental" Swedish...

Volkert Volkertsen
Monday, April 18th, 2005, 11:15 PM
There are still at least couple of Germanic languages missing:

Afrikaans :)

and

Yiddish :icon_evil

Also Finlandswedish is quite different from "continental" Swedish...

There are quite a few missing, actually: Afrikaans and *shudder* Yiddish, as you point out, and also Scots, Luxemburgish, Flemish...

And of course, German comes in many varieties, from Tyrolean to Plattdustch to Pennsylvanian and on and on.

anonymaus
Monday, April 18th, 2005, 11:41 PM
There are still at least couple of Germanic languages missing:

Afrikaans :)

and

Yiddish :icon_evil

Also Finlandswedish is quite different from "continental" Swedish...

:laugh: that's true, I suppose Juedische-Deutsch should be on there.. Is it a language or dialect though? I always was told it was a dialect only, though it certainly sounds like a different language whenever I hear it.

Fox
Monday, April 18th, 2005, 11:47 PM
It doesn't matter if things like Yiddish are missing because nobody would vote for it.

Sonja
Monday, April 18th, 2005, 11:47 PM
I voted for Norwegian (it was hard to choose between Norwegian and Swedish), but English is one of my other favourites, particularly for its wide vocabulary.


Is it true that English has the most words of any language?

This question is practically impossible to answer, for the reasons set out in the answer to How many words are there in the English language? However, it seems quite probable that English has more words than most comparable world languages.

The reason for this is historical. English was originally a Germanic language, related to Dutch and German, and it shares much of its grammar and basic vocabulary with those languages. However, after the Norman Conquest in 1066 it was hugely influenced by Norman French, which became the language of the ruling class for a considerable period, and by Latin, which was the language of scholarship and of the Church. Very large numbers of French and Latin words entered the language. Consequently, English has a much larger vocabulary than either the Germanic languages or the members of the Romance language family to which French belongs.

English is also very ready to accommodate foreign words, and as it has become an international language, it has absorbed vocabulary from a large number of other sources. This does, of course, assume that you ignore 'agglutinative' languages such as Finnish, in which words can be stuck together in long strings of indefinite length, and which therefore have an almost infinite number of 'words'.

http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutenglish/mostwords?view=uk

Lissu
Tuesday, April 19th, 2005, 12:03 AM
It doesn't matter if things like Yiddish are missing because nobody would vote for it.Well, if someone voted for it, it would be certain what will happen to the voter....

:noose2:


:D

EDIT: Few more options added, but not Yiddish of course :laugh:

Nordgau
Tuesday, April 19th, 2005, 12:51 AM
There are quite a few missing, actually: Afrikaans and *shudder* Yiddish, as you point out, and also Scots, Luxemburgish, Flemish...

And of course, German comes in many varieties, from Tyrolean to Plattdustch to Pennsylvanian and on and on.

Flemish is included in "Netherlandic". The differences between Flemish and the Dutch in the Netherlands are only minimal: it is one language. And I thought Afrikaans also to be included in there.

Luxemburgish: Despite of it having been made for reasons of identity and distinctions "national language" of Luxemburg in 1984, it is in fact a west German dialect spoken in the whole Mosel area--and that not only in Luxemburg, but in even much greater parts of Rheinland-Pfalz in the FRG state--, and that it is in respect of its linguistic status as well as of its actual status in culture and society in Luxemburg. The Luxemburgers themselves are not overall willingly to read and write their own "national language": 95% of the print media in Luxemburg are in standard German, and the rest is predominantly covered by French, "Luxemburgish" (Mosel-Frankish) only used very little. Educational language in school is standard German, in higher classes then joined by French; Luxemburgish has only its place in a few special lessons in respect of pieces of little Heimat stories or poetry etc. It also will never "grow up" to a real language, as not even the strongest preservationists and promoters of it in Luxemburg regard it as a desirable goal to displace High German through it.

And if one seriously wants to have all German dialects from Platt over Tyrolese variants of Bavarian up to Pennsylvanian Dutch (German) added on the list as language options of their own, then one certainly has to make the very same story perfect for all the other Germanic languages and offer for English a whole palette of different variants from Northwest over East Anglia, Northwest Midlands up to Cockney, or for Swedish from Norrlndska over Gtaml and lndska up to Dalml.--It's not only German which comes in many varieties. Not to speak of the case of Norway, where different varieties exist parallel as properly developed standard forms.

I followed in the subdivision of "the nine tongues" the following charts. The only one where I was indeed uncertain, was Scots, since some insist on it being an own language, while it is for others covered by English--as on these charts, which I followed at last.

http://home.wanadoo.nl/arjenbolhuis/language-family-trees/11.gif

http://home.wanadoo.nl/arjenbolhuis/language-family-trees/55.gif

TisaAnne
Tuesday, April 19th, 2005, 01:28 AM
I wrote a buncha stuff before and I don't feel like repeating it...
hehe... same here. :D I did change my vote though.

When I first replied to this thread, I chose German... just because I am German, and because I find the language to be beautiful in it's own strong, hearty sort of way.

But I have always loved the Scandinavian languages above all else for their graceful, poetically pleasing phonetics and appearance. My vote goes to Swedish though, as it's always been a favorite and I have a special affection for Swedes in general. ;)

Volkert Volkertsen
Tuesday, April 19th, 2005, 03:23 AM
I followed in the subdivision of "the nine tongues" the following charts. The only one where I was indeed uncertain, was Scots, since some insist on it being an own language, while it is for others covered by English--as on these charts, which I followed at last.

Ah, the old "dialect vs. language" debate. Politics, politics, politics.

:)

Here's a useful resource:
http://lowlands-l.net/talk/deu/index.php

Lissu
Tuesday, April 19th, 2005, 10:29 AM
I voted for English, because it's the foreign (AND Germanic ;)) language I know the best.

NSFreja
Tuesday, April 19th, 2005, 10:35 AM
My answer is swedish because it's my native language and i love it BUT i also love the german language very very much.

/M

Nightmare_Gbg
Tuesday, April 19th, 2005, 11:04 AM
I voted Swedish becouse it's my native tounge.As for the jiddish question i dont se it as a language.Sounds more like bastardised German to me.Have had an incident where i used a German frase and some idiot asked me if i was jewish.But i'm not supprised,according to some jews their language is the original one.(Sorry for ranting)

Lundi
Tuesday, April 19th, 2005, 11:12 AM
Well I speak three languages on that list fluently and learning Faroese would probably only take a week or two for an Icelander (not much point though :P ) Although Im going to have to be extremely biased and go for my own poetic tongue, for it is the language which makes my heart glow with pride and bliss.

Lena_rus
Tuesday, April 19th, 2005, 11:13 AM
Once again - Icelandic :beer1:
Norwegian is going next and then Swedish (I love the Swedish band Kent and their album Vapen and Ammunition is one of my favorites ever) .

Nordgau
Tuesday, April 19th, 2005, 11:16 AM
Ah, the old "dialect vs. language" debate. Politics, politics, politics.

:)

Here's a useful resource:
http://lowlands-l.net/talk/deu/index.php

I hope that was your point for Scots, and not for Estuary English, Cape Barren English, Zeelndisch, Stadtfriesisch and Limburgs as distinct languages, which are listed up there. :P

Nordgau
Tuesday, April 19th, 2005, 11:29 AM
I voted Swedish becouse it's my native tounge.As for the jiddish question i dont se it as a language.Sounds more like bastardised German to me.Have had an incident where i used a German frase and some idiot asked me if i was jewish.But i'm not supprised,according to some jews their language is the original one.(Sorry for ranting)

Yiddish may be in the technical sense a German-based idiom which developed to a distinct language of its own, but in respect of the dudes who are its bearers and mauschlers it should be as less taken into consideration as a real Germanic tongue as, say, forms of Negro English one hears in Harlem or on Jamaica. Anyway, nobody would vote for it here, only crypto-Jews.

Gustavus Magnus
Tuesday, April 19th, 2005, 12:04 PM
As for the jiddish question i dont se it as a language.Sounds more like bastardised German to me.

It is, I have a hard time separating yiddish from hebrew. Well, not exactly, but you know what I mean.


Have had an incident where i used a German frase and some idiot asked me if i was jewish.

Maybe it's because of your big nose? :P

Volkert Volkertsen
Tuesday, April 19th, 2005, 01:03 PM
I hope that was your point for Scots, and not for Estuary English, Cape Barren English, Zeelndisch, Stadtfriesisch and Limburgs as distinct languages, which are listed up there. :P

As I said, the language/dialogue distinction is often just a matter of political perspective. ;)

I know where you're coming from, though.

Nordgau
Tuesday, April 19th, 2005, 02:31 PM
As I said, the language/dialogue distinction is often just a matter of political perspective. ;)

You may have your Scots (I personally couldn't really comment that special case knowledgeably anyway)--but even on the page which you gave they speak in respect of that all, of Stadtfriesisch, Limburgs, Estuary English etc. only of "Sprachvarianten" ("lingual variants") and "verschiedene Mundarten" ("different dialects"). :P

But beyond every political perspective one certainly reaches even with the broadest idea of "language" linguistically at sometime or other a level where it objectively does not make sense to prefer the language term to that of the dialect: when they are so clearly close to each other and lingual-genetically related and when in a higher form of culture, civilization and society, which we have in the Germanic sphere, these variants did not become each for themselves standardized writing languages for cultural tradition and general communication, but one variant of them has prevailed as standard form for them all or a more or less homogenized standard form of them was generated.

Already in the Middle Ages, where a German standard language didn't exist in the same way as it does today, the dialects from Saxon to Bavarian were regarded as different regional variants of one language Deutsch.

One certainly could point out the most subtle differences of idiomatic expressions and make up then a "Mhldorf language", a "Waldkraiburg language", and a "Schwindegg language" from one little place to the next, and finally one would come to the result that every speaker in the world has his own individual "language"--denying that is certainly also "political", as insinuating such thing as a collective "language" of people may be interpreted as an attack against the radical-individualistic idea of the individual's free will, creative power and intellectual-spiritual uniqueness which are expressed in grammatical, phonetical, lexical and else peculiarities, in the very subtle frequences of the tones which come out of his mouth. :P


I know where you're coming from, though.

Where? Teutonia? :guinness: :D

Vanir
Tuesday, April 19th, 2005, 04:19 PM
It is functionally extinct now, but I'll vote Anglo-Saxon.
The bones & heart of our English today, and an Iron Anchor of our Heritage.

it is a really beautiful language to listen to, not that many people have heard it. I must admit it stirs my heart whenever I listen to it.

Here's a small soundfile of it I have on my server space
http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/~tiwaz/OEspoken.mp3
Just question for any Icelandic or Scandinavian speakers, do you find any of it intelligible? I just recall reading somewhere that when the Danes and English were fighting, they could understand each other somewhat.

Segment of "The Battle of Maldon" :NorseHelm

Se flod ut gewat; a flotan stodon gearowe,
wicinga fela, wiges georne.
Het a hlea hleo healdan a bricge
wigan wigheardne, se ws haten Wulfstan,
cafne mid his cynne, t ws Ceolan sunu,
e one forman man mid his francan ofsceat
e r baldlicost on a bricge stop.
r stodon mid Wulfstane wigan unforhte,
lfere and Maccus, modige twegen,
a noldon t am forda fleam gewyrcan,
ac hi fstlice wi a fynd weredon,
a hwile e hi wpna wealdan moston.
a hi t ongeaton and georne gesawon
t hi r bricgweardas bitere fundon,
ongunnon lytegian a lae gystas,
bdon t hi upgangan agan moston,
ofer one ford faran, fean ldan.
a se eorl ongan for his ofermode
alyfan landes to fela laere eode.
Ongan ceallian a ofer cald wter
Byrhtelmes bearn (beornas gehlyston):
'Nu eow is gerymed, ga ricene to us,
guman to gue; God ana wat
hwa re wlstowe wealdan mote.'
Wodon a wlwulfas (for wtere ne murnon),
wicinga werod, west ofer Pantan,
ofer scir wter scyldas wegon,
lidmen to lande linde bron.
r ongean gramum gearowe stodon
Byrhtno mid beornum; he mid bordum het
wyrcan one wihagan, and t werod healdan
fste wi feondum. a ws feohte neh,
tir t getohte. Ws seo tid cumen
t r fge men feallan sceoldon.
r wear hream ahafen, hremmas wundon,
earn ses georn; ws on eoran cyrm.
Hi leton a of folman feolhearde speru,
grimme gegrundene garas fleogan;
bogan wron bysige, bord ord onfeng.

Translation

The tide went out; the seamen stood ready, the many Vikings eager for battle. Then the heroes protector commanded a warrior hardened in battle to hold the causeway, who was called Wulfstan, brave amongst his kin; that was Ceolas son, who shot down with his spear the first man who stepped very boldly onto the causeway there. Fearless warriors stood there with Wulfstan, lfere and Maccus, the two brave men, who did not desire to take flight from the ford, but they defended steadfastly against the enemies for as long as they might wield their weapons. When they perceived that, and clearly saw that they had found bitter bridge-guardians there, the hateful visitors then began to use guile; they asked that they be allowed to have passage, to come across the ford, to lead their infantry.

Then the nobleman began, because of his pride, to allow too much land to the hateful people. Byrhthelms son began then to call over the cold water (the warriors listened): "Now space has been provided you, come quickly to us, men to the battle; God alone knows who will be allowed to control the battlefield." The slaughter-wolves advanced (didnt worry about the water), the host of vikings, west across the Blackwater, carried their shields over the bright water, the sailors bore their linden shields to the land. Byrhtnoth with his warriors stood ready there against the fierce ones; he ordered the war-hedge to be made with shields, and that the host should hold firm against the enemies. Fighting was near then, glory in conflict. The time had come when doomed men must fall there. Clamour was raised there, ravens circled, an eagle eager for carrion; on the earth there was uproar. They let fly then from their fists file-hard spears, grimly sharpened spears; bows were busy, shield received spear-point.

Lundi
Tuesday, April 19th, 2005, 04:50 PM
Just question for any Icelandic or Scandinavian speakers, do you find any of it intelligible? I just recall reading somewhere that when the Danes and English were fighting, they could understand each other somewhat.


I understood a few words while listening to the example, although not enough to decipher the text. It's quite different, of course its most likely going to be closer to Icelandic than to modern Swedish Norwegian or Danish, that with the alphabet being the same and the pronunciations quite similar, overall of all the Scandinavian tongues Faroese probably comes the closest.

Nttfari
Tuesday, April 19th, 2005, 05:03 PM
Here's an old Icelandic poem I'm sure Lundi knows, and the Anglo-Saxon translation :D

Forn-slenzka
at mlti mn mir
at mr skyldi kaupa
fley ok fagrar rar,
fara brott me vkingum,
standa upp stafni,
stra drum knerri,
halda sv til hafnar,
hggva mann ok annan.

Anglo-Saxon
t mlede mn mdor
t me scolde ceapian
flge and fgra ra,
faran aweg wi wcingum,
standan ppe in stefnan,
steran deorne cnear,
faran sw t hfene,
hawan man and er.

Fortis_in_Arduis
Tuesday, April 19th, 2005, 05:08 PM
I love English, and what I really like to hear is the native English speaker speaking English in his regional dialects whether he be from Yorkshire, London or Aberdeen.

The Aberdonian tongue known as the "Doric" is the closest we have to the original Anglo-Saxon tongue. The Aberdonians are wonderful and very mild people and they use words like "driech" meaning grey and cloudy, and many others besides. I spent only one year of my life there, but it was part of a process which imbued me with a sense of place.

The Normans came and introduced us to some new words, but they did not entirely wipe out the Saxon tongue, Shakespeare used to move between Norman and Saxon words within the English language to express modalities.

Language is wonderful!

Volkert Volkertsen
Tuesday, April 19th, 2005, 07:51 PM
You may have your Scots (I personally couldn't really comment that special case knowledgeably anyway)--but even on the page which you gave they speak in respect of that all, of Stadtfriesisch, Limburgs, Estuary English etc. only of "Sprachvarianten" ("lingual variants") and "verschiedene Mundarten" ("different dialects"). :P

[snip]

denying that is certainly also "political", as insinuating such thing as a collective "language" of people may be interpreted as an attack against the radical-individualistic idea of the individual's free will, creative power and intellectual-spiritual uniqueness which are expressed in grammatical, phonetical, lexical and else peculiarities, in the very subtle frequences of the tones which come out of his mouth. :P

Ah, this is a good example of how it is difficult to discuss Language scientifically, with linguists as well as laymen. In this sense it is very much like trying to discuss Race scientifically; Language, like Race, is something everyone feels both connected to and possessive of. Impartial examination of it on a scientific basis usually falls apart due to the influx of political overtones.

Also, like the terminology used in racial science, the terminology used in linguistic science can be misleading for laymen and researchers alike. In the above case, for example, the term Sprachvarianten (generally rendered in English in the scientific literature as "speech varieties") appears to the layman to mean different varieties of the same language. Linguists, however, use this term to mean any variation in speech patterns, from the very broad to the very narrow; thus, English and German are two different "speech varieties," as are British English and American English, as are Pittsburghese and Philadelphian, as are variations in speech patterns between two different neighborhoods in one or the other of those cities.

As for the question of the individual's role in the language process, it is indeed true that each person does speak his or her own unique speech variety, generally known as an "idiolect." My neighbor and I might speek the same dialect of the same language, but we each have our own peculiar mannerisms and minor differences in pronunciation which are scientifically notable. This does not in any way invalidate notions of "dialect" or "language," however. It just means that dialects are a collection of similar idiolects, languages are a collection of similar dialects, language families are a collection of related languages, etc.

Taken together, of course, they still are expressions of the character and will of a folk. Indeed, I am a firm believer in the Principle of Linguistic Determinism -- the idea that the language one speaks shapes one's entire worldview, even down to the minutest details of kinetics and the perception of time. This notion is not widely held by the modern linguists who cling to Chomsky's pantleg like a misbehaving dog at a crowded party, and my support of it has made some think of me as a maverick in the field.


Where to draw the line between speech varieties is another matter, and this is where politics usually plays its rle.

In delineating languages and dialects, some have suggested that in order to rightly be classed a language, a dialect must have developed a literary tradition. But where does that leave some tongues such as can be found in Africa or South America, where no literary traditions have ever existed? Two speech varieties in those locations may be genetically related and have been in contact for centuries, but due to tribal politics or other factors could still be considered languages. Our Germanic culture/cultures, as you point out, are of a higher order, but this does not necessarily make the drawing of these distinctions any easier.

Some have suggested a criterion of mutual intelligibility for drawing the distinction, e.g. if the speakers of two speech varieties can understand each other's variety, this makes them dialects of the same language. But then, if we consider examples like Czech vs. Slovak, Serbian vs. Croatian, or even some varities of Danish vs. some varities of Swedish, we begin to see problems with this line of thought.

The matter is really very confusing, and there are many viewpoints which only serve to muddy the water. It's kind of like going on Dodona and talking about the "White Race." A bunch of Berbers or Sicilians or Spaniards might think they're included, taking the term as a synonym for "Caucasoid." Others might draw the line in a different place, taking it to mean only the most depigmented of the caucasoids. So it is with dialects and languages.

I myself am inclined to think of it in the terms laid out by a famous Frenchman (though the phrase is often wrongly attributed to a Yid):

"Une langue, c'est un dialecte qui possde une arme et une marine."

"A language, it is a dialect with an army and a navy."



Where? Teutonia? :guinness: :D

And it's a fine place from which to come! I s'pose I should be careful with my idioms. ;)

beowulf wodenson
Tuesday, April 19th, 2005, 09:45 PM
I'll have to go with english as it's my 'native' tongue (or perhaps I should say kentuckian :laugh: ) despite its latinized-hybrid character but I really have no working knowledge of any of the other germanic languages save a bit of german. I would like to learn more about the language of my ancestors the anglo-saxons, foundation of modern english.
Also, ich spreche bisschen deutsch weil ich habe deutsch an die uni fur 3
?semestren? gelernt.(Das war nach 2 jahren) Meine deutsch ist nicht so gut (schlecht, haa), aber ich verstehe mehr als ich spreche. Es war meine erste nebenfach an die uni,und war sehr interessant. Ich mochte mehr lernen einige tag. :coffee:

My apologies to all the resident deutschevolk here at the tnp for my shoddy use of your language. I speak fluent spanish but 'tis alas, not a germanic tongue :viking2:

Gustavus Magnus
Tuesday, April 19th, 2005, 10:07 PM
I speak fluent spanish

Sure you do, Bubba. ?Que quieras Taco Bell?

Loki
Tuesday, April 19th, 2005, 10:11 PM
I love Scandinavian languages. Danish is probably my favourite, as it is closest to the West Germanic languages. :)

Richter Freisler
Wednesday, April 20th, 2005, 02:44 AM
Deutsch!:cyclops0: :white_gb: :cyclops0:

Arcturus
Wednesday, April 20th, 2005, 10:15 AM
English. I speak it fluently and I find it a wonderful medium for conveying nuance.

Lissu
Wednesday, April 20th, 2005, 05:10 PM
Also, ich spreche bisschen deutsch weil ich habe deutsch an die uni fur 3 ?semestren? gelernt.(Das war nach 2 jahren) Meine deutsch ist nicht so gut (schlecht, haa), aber ich verstehe mehr als ich spreche. Es war meine erste nebenfach an die uni,und war sehr interessant. Ich mochte mehr lernen einige tag. :coffee: Ich auch verstehe Deutsch besser als sprechen. Aber Ich bin in Deutschland gewohnen...:redface:

Deutsch ist nur zu Schwer fr mich. Zu viele Artikeln und so weiter... :kaioken1:

:sofa0000:

Todesritter
Wednesday, April 20th, 2005, 05:16 PM
Deutsch gefllt mir sehr ... macht mich Froh.

... und natrlich sind Goethe und Schiller oder Nietzche un Hegel viel besser auf Deutsch.

Arcturus
Wednesday, April 20th, 2005, 05:31 PM
"You have not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon." Chancellor Gorkon
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country

Gustavus Magnus
Wednesday, April 20th, 2005, 07:27 PM
"You have not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon." Chancellor Gorkon
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country

You a Trekkie..? :rotfl:

Arcturus
Wednesday, April 20th, 2005, 07:59 PM
You a Trekkie..? :rotfl:

Nope. Just a man with a mind for useless information. :animal-sm (<-Spock)

Erlingr Hrbararson
Wednesday, April 20th, 2005, 10:34 PM
What is Trekkie?

Loki
Wednesday, April 20th, 2005, 10:36 PM
What is Trekkie?
A Star Trek fanatic. ;)

Erlingr Hrbararson
Wednesday, April 20th, 2005, 10:38 PM
Nah, I don't care too much about RP. But RP is certainly a highly advanced means of communication which is dying out rapidly.

What does RP mean?

Loki
Wednesday, April 20th, 2005, 10:44 PM
What does RP mean?
Received Pronunciation (http://www.yaelf.com/rp.shtml)

Erlingr Hrbararson
Wednesday, April 20th, 2005, 10:48 PM
A Star Trek fanatic. ;)
I do not know what this is, but I made an internett search for this and the sites which appeared were of galaxy and alien enterprises and clubs I reckon and one site had a rather large negroe holding a shining, blue planet 'twixt his negroe hands and he was surrounded by eyebrowe people and some Whites. Who is a fanatic of this strange thing? Arcturus, you need more wholesome leisure, dear friend...

Lissu
Wednesday, April 20th, 2005, 11:00 PM
I do not know what this is, but I made an internett search for this and the sites which appeared were of galaxy and alien enterprises and clubs I reckon and one site had a rather large negroe holding a shining, blue planet 'twixt his negroe hands and he was surrounded by eyebrowe people and some Whites. Who is a fanatic of this strange thing? Arcturus, you need more wholesome leisure, dear friend...You have never heard of (or seen) The Star Trek???

When I was a kid, I was a huge fan of it, especially for those seasons made in the 60's :P Of course today, those old seasons are quite ridiculous, Captain Kirk ordering to head to north, with full speed - in space... Where no man has gone before :rotfl:

Well, this is

:offtopid:

:redface:

Erlingr Hrbararson
Wednesday, April 20th, 2005, 11:09 PM
You have never heard of (or seen) The Star Trek???

When I was a kid, I was a huge fan of it, especially for those seasons made in the 60's :P Of course today, those old seasons are quite ridiculous, Captain Kirk ordering to head to north, with full speed - in space... Where no man has gone before :rotfl:p

This is embarrassing to not know some thing every one else knows, but I have never watched television, so this is why I did not understand; however, after hearing of what Trekkie is and what the Star Trek is, I am happy I do not know this.


Well, this is

:offtopid:

When threads run off-topic, it means some thing more interesting has arisen. :) I like off-topic.

Lundi
Thursday, April 21st, 2005, 11:10 AM
When threads run off-topic, it means some thing more interesting has arisen. :) I like off-topic.

Star Trek more interesting then the Germanic Languages :O

NEVER, NEVER I SAY :rofl:

Zyklop
Thursday, April 21st, 2005, 03:27 PM
Sound examples of different German dialects:
http://www.uni-marburg.de/sprache-in-hessen/

(click on "Deutsche Dialekte" on the lower left; it doesnt really work when directly linking to the site)

Todesritter
Thursday, April 21st, 2005, 04:12 PM
Sound examples ... Good Lord! I can understand all of them fine, but Mosel-Frnkisch makes me feel like I am trying listen to German after having smoked a bunch of industrial solvent and cleaning fluid.

fenriSS_
Thursday, April 21st, 2005, 05:06 PM
Norwegian :flagge21:

Gustavus Magnus
Thursday, April 21st, 2005, 05:46 PM
Nope. Just a man with a mind for useless information. :animal-sm (<-Spock)

Oh, okay. Otherwise I would've posted a quote I got from Conan. Heck, I'll do it anyway.

"Star Trek got cancelled this week, and the Fan Club is preparing to go down to the recording studios and strike. Yeah, they're doing it on a Saturday, because noone has anything planned."

:rotfl:

(I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something like that.)

(On a sidenote, I love Conan, although he's Irish and has a really big head. :D Funniest guy on TV.)

On topic: Yeah, you can't beat Swedish. Most beautiful language around.

Sigel
Thursday, April 21st, 2005, 09:40 PM
The dead ones. Anglo-Saxon is pure magic, there is no comparison. Gothic looks interesting, pity we'll never know how it was spoken.

beowulf wodenson
Friday, April 22nd, 2005, 12:00 AM
Sure you do, Bubba. ?Que quieras Taco Bell?

Si, hablo muy bien el espanol. ?Pero que sabe algun supuesto sueco de espanol? Yo vivi en un pais hispanico por siete anos, por eso hablo y intiendo el idioma muy bien. ?Y usted gustavus cuanto sabes de espanol? No hay que ser pendejo, sueco, ojala eres mas inteligente q' eso.

Do not assume, gustavus, that because I am a native of kentucky I am somehow automatically ignorant if that were the case behind your seemingly snide comment. Ignorant assumptions ill become the supposed higher tone of tnp. I am quite proud of my homeland, and I am indeed fluent in spanish having grown up half my life in honduras,central america. :coffee:

'bubba'wulf :yawnee20:

Erlingr Hrbararson
Friday, April 22nd, 2005, 12:21 AM
Where are the diacritics? Allthough an inferiour and ugly language, it still should be written proper out. No native speaker should dishonour his own tongue as this.

Gustavus Magnus
Friday, April 22nd, 2005, 12:24 AM
Si, hablo muy bien el espanol. ?Pero que sabe algun supuesto sueco de espanol? Yo vivi en un pais hispanico por siete anos, por eso hablo y intiendo el idioma muy bien. ?Y usted gustavus cuanto sabes de espanol? No hay que ser pendejo, sueco, ojala eres mas inteligente q' eso.

Do not assume, gustavus, that because I am a native of kentucky I am somehow automatically ignorant if that were the case behind your seemingly snide comment. Ignorant assumptions ill become the supposed higher tone of tnp. I am quite proud of my homeland, and I am indeed fluent in spanish having grown up half my life in honduras,central america. :coffee:

Interesting. I have only studied Castilian, with vague interest, for four years, so I will not ridicule myself by trying to write it. However, I understand it quite well, so I thank you for the compliment. :)

beowulf wodenson
Friday, April 22nd, 2005, 01:47 AM
Castellano is quite different from the dialect of Spanish spoken where I grew up. It is rather difficult to understand a native Spaniard speaking the Castillian dialect for me, as I've only been around Central Americans speaking their brands of Spanish, Hondurans in particular. Spaniards often ridicule the Hondurans' manner of speaking from what they've told me. The mestizoes apparently speak much slower and less articulately than do the Spanish. :mexican:


Y claro q' si, sueco, le di un gran complimento,tal q' me caigo de risa :rotfl: :rofl: Espero q' fue de sarcasmo su commento.....pero de todas maneras me vale verga cualquier tipo de commento fue.

Todesritter
Friday, April 22nd, 2005, 02:24 AM
Most New World Spanish is derived from the peasant provincial Andalusian dialect of Spain, rather than the capital dialect of Castilian. They are all gradients of this dialect with various adaptations, except I guess Argentinean Spanish is fairly different from all other New World Spanish.

I knew both a Basque fellow, with the unusual Basque bone structure and fairly pale skin but an otherwise Mediterranean complexion, and a honey-blond / light-brown green-eyed girl from outside Madrid. Both were Castilian speakers, and were terribly harassed by the local mulatto, Caribbean and Mexican Spanish speakers.

The Basques are of course their own special case, but the girl was evidence to me that not all of the ancient Celtic or Wisigothic blood of ancient Iberia has died out in modern Spain.

Lundi
Friday, April 22nd, 2005, 12:09 PM
Si, hablo muy bien el espanol. ?Pero que sabe algun supuesto sueco de espanol? Yo vivi en un pais hispanico por siete anos, por eso hablo y intiendo el idioma muy bien. ?Y usted gustavus cuanto sabes de espanol? No hay que ser pendejo, sueco, ojala eres mas inteligente q' eso.


Si un Islands entiende Espaol perfectamente porque no un Sueco :animal-sm

Ahora mismo estoy viviendo en Espaa, y como has dicho, la idioma es muy differente comparado a lo que ellos hablan en Sur y Central America. Yo prefiero el Castellano, pienso que suena ms liso y ms potico, pero por supuesto eso es solamente mi opinin :)

Right enough of that horrid language :P, back to the topic if I werent to pick Icelandic then I would definitely choose Swedish for I used to live in Sweden and the Swedish language plays an important role in my life

Gustavus Magnus
Friday, April 22nd, 2005, 02:02 PM
Y claro q' si, sueco, le di un gran complimento,tal q' me caigo de risa :rotfl: :rofl: Espero q' fue de sarcasmo su commento.....pero de todas maneras me vale verga cualquier tipo de commento fue.

Por lo tanto ":)".

Nibelung
Friday, April 22nd, 2005, 03:04 PM
Close call between German and English.
We have Goethe, they have Shakespeare. Both equivalent evidences of the quality of their respective languages.

I like German a bit better, maybe because it's my native language.
However, it might not sound a nice as English, but its complexity and structure is just beautiful.

Can't say too much about the other languages though.
Swedish sounds very fine. Have some swedish CDs and try to learn the language a bit.
Others have to decide which language is the best. I can just give my opinion.

Zyklop
Friday, April 22nd, 2005, 03:23 PM
Good Lord! I can understand all of them fine, but Mosel-Frnkisch makes me feel like I am trying listen to German after having smoked a bunch of industrial solvent and cleaning fluid.
Even I cant understand this. :icon1:

Erlingr Hrbararson
Friday, April 22nd, 2005, 04:17 PM
Even I cant understand this. :icon1:

:icon_ques

This is exact why I refused to make an on-topic posting at this thread since the beginning. This is just an american thread and the majourity of persons have absolute no clue on what they speak. I think that when they try to learn for our languages, it makes them feel as though they are european again :rolleyes:; so, they all believe on they know of every thing and can speak it all because they know a few words and have seen a few films. I guess this mentality can be expected when you come of a country that owns the world and keeps just ruining it.

Zyklop
Friday, April 22nd, 2005, 04:23 PM
:icon_ques

This is exact why I refused to make an on-topic posting at this thread since the beginning. This is just an american thread and the majourity of persons have absolute no clue on what they speak. I think that when they try to learn for our languages, it makes them feel as though they are european again :rolleyes:; so, they all believe on they know of every thing and can speak it all because they know a few words and have seen a few films. I guess this mentality can be expected when you come of a country that owns the world and keeps just ruining it. Well, I might get you wrong but Im a native German and still I cant understand all the German dialects.

Todesritter
Friday, April 22nd, 2005, 04:29 PM
:icon_ques

This is exact why I refused to make an on-topic posting at this thread since the beginning. This is just an american thread and the majourity of persons have absolute no clue on what they speak. I think that when they try to learn for our languages, it makes them feel as though they are european again :rolleyes:; so, they all believe on they know of every thing and can speak it all because they know a few words and have seen a few films. I guess this mentality can be expected when you come of a country that owns the world and keeps just ruining it.I am an American, guilty as charged; but I have no problem with Standard German, well maybe a bit rusty now that I haven't lived there for a while, Baierisch a bit tougher, Platt actually seemed easier, and I could never understand the local Sachsen taxi driver, but my friends there, native Germans, said that was fine, none of them could understand him either.

However, this Mosel-Frnkisch is just crazy - imho. :rotfl:

Erlingr Hrbararson
Friday, April 22nd, 2005, 04:48 PM
Well, I might get you wrong but Im a native German and still I cant understand all the German dialects.

This I know. You are not making any sense for me with making a posting of this because this was my point, i.e. a non-native claiming higher capability than to that of a native is american propaganda and not to be taken under seriousness.

:dev:

Death and the Sun
Friday, April 22nd, 2005, 05:08 PM
Funny how no-one has voted for Tok Pisin (http://www.une.edu.au/langnet/tokpisin.htm). That's Germanic language too, you know. :rotfl:

Todesritter
Friday, April 22nd, 2005, 05:34 PM
This I know. You are not making any sense for me with making a posting of this because this was my point, i.e. a non-native claiming higher capability than to that of a native is american propaganda and not to be taken under seriousness.

:dev:
Well, I certainly would never claim a higher capacity for understanding German, than a German native. I have problems with street talk, and slang, and many of the dialects have words for things I know in standard German, but are not to be found in the dictionary.

The Mosel-Frnkisch however, I cannot even really make out about half of the syllables; I would be in trouble if tasked with writing down what I heard and trying to translate it later.

Arcturus
Friday, April 22nd, 2005, 05:40 PM
Don't worry Todesritter, there are some dialecs of swedish that I hardly understand a word of myself (both finn-swe and swe dialects), and that's my mothertongue. :shrugani:

perkele14
Friday, April 22nd, 2005, 06:03 PM
Ive always scored "A" in English, yet their (English) inner dialects are hebrew to me. Though I can always find comfort in the fact that no matter how good and "native" Finnish a goon/outlander might speak, he/she will NEVER understand when WE decide to speak in dialects :cool:

Todesritter
Sunday, April 24th, 2005, 01:26 PM
I must admit I am a geek of Science Fiction, and while I find some of the ides in Star Trek interesting, it is largely just another Multi-cultural soap-opera.

Much more interesting to me is some older science fiction that had the idea that the nation-state would remain intact as the primary macro social entity for the super-tribe and thus nations in the future would have whole planets colonized exclusively by them, and peopled by their native inhabitants.

Dutch-Valerians come to mind and entire planet left to be colonized by the Netherlands.

Also the books on the Dorsai are interesting a race of supersoldiers, basically the logical extension of what would have happened if a harsh planet had been entirely colonized by only the fiercest of the Prussian, and Hessian mercenaries and their families, and then given access to the technology of eugenics, and allowed to process on that harsh planet for 1000 generations.

. anyway, it is no mark of ill-character to be unaware of Star Trek, and feel a little sheepish myself admitting that I enjoy watching it sometimes though despite some of its politics I may find distasteful, it does have some ideas of potential interest.

Thulean Imperial Inquisitor
Tuesday, May 3rd, 2005, 10:39 PM
I voted for my murml (mouther language), Icelandic. Next to that, on that list, it would be german and english, I guess.

Theudanaz
Friday, May 6th, 2005, 09:34 AM
My favorite is proto-Germanic, followed by Old Saxon, Runic and Gothic. The only thing on the list close to those is Icelandic. I love the inflections and paradigms. Also love the little funny words that sound very old, which you also have a lot of in Norwegian dialects. The versatility is visible in its ability to create new words with logical methods, much more so than German does anymore. In this respect English is practically dead. Icelandic sounds more rolling and faint than German, but can be just as imperative if not more so. Literature and the art of language have long been in the mind and mood of its speakers. My first language is English btw.

HIM
Saturday, May 7th, 2005, 08:32 PM
That is a difficult question, as I very much like all the germanic languages. I am quite fond of English because that is my first language and I also like German because it is what I've been studying and is the language my great-grandparents spoke. But I would probably have to say that my favorite germanic language is Icelandic. I like the way it sounds, how it looks when written, and I like the fact that it has hardly changed since the Vikings settled Iceland back in the 9th and 10th centuries. I would very much like to learn Icelandic, but there are no classes available where I live. I just bought some learning materials and hopefully they will prove to be useful.

Erlingr Hrbararson
Saturday, May 7th, 2005, 11:05 PM
HIM

I was wondering why do you use this avatar?

Nttfari
Saturday, May 7th, 2005, 11:13 PM
I personally am not very fond of English, as it comes to Iceland along with the Amerikan crap which fills the radio and TV mediums. It is useful, though, but, as I feel now, I would rather have learnt, for example, German from age eleven and English from sixteen, than the other way around.

Oddstrir
Saturday, May 7th, 2005, 11:46 PM
Icelandic is my answer. Sounds biased perhaps but I would rathre have said

Old Norwegian/Old Icelandic if it would have been a choice.

I also like German very much and am currently learning it enthusiastically, I

like Norwegian and I am also interested in Celtic tongues but my learning of

those will have to wait for the moment.

Erlingr Hrbararson
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 12:02 AM
I personally am not very fond of English
Neither am I. It symbolises that which poisons the icestreams within our northhearts. All germanic language is poisonous. We write with a latin alfabet regardless of what language we speak. This latin i.e. roman, alphabet is foreign to our tongues. We are all betrayl and traitors and should be ashamed on our selves. Every word or lettre we write to day murders a norse footstep behind the mists; another story lost and folklore compromised. The only writingpath of our folk is the eldest of fuark. Twenty-four symbols of Sskeggr and His ancient wisdoms. This is our only true writing. Remember you as Egill, son to Skalla-Grmur Kveldlfsson, fled to the tiny island for safety after bringing a man of counsell to his death whilst drunk and vomitus, and on this island he carved runes into a piece of wood and stuck it deep into the ground facing the kings men and those who search for him to capture in order to curse them? With what Egill felt was natural to express his emotion was the way of his folk and land, and the way of Bleygr. Praise be to Egils ways for he was true.

Death and the Sun
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 12:09 AM
I personally am not very fond of English, as it comes to Iceland along with the Amerikan crap which fills the radio and TV mediums. It is useful, though, but, as I feel now, I would rather have learnt, for example, German from age eleven and English from sixteen, than the other way around.

English can be a very versatile, elegant and expressive language. Regrettably what you say about American garbage McCulture flooding Europe is true, and English is also the language of this scourge. A language is only as good as its users, which is proven by the simians who speak "Ebonics".

Read Shakespeare, Blake, Lovecraft, Orwell, etc to truly appreciate English.

Oddstrir
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 12:17 AM
Neither am I. It symbolises that which poisons the icestreams within our northhearts. All germanic language is poisonous. We write with a latin alfabet regardless of what language we speak. This latin i.e. roman, alphabet is foreign to our tongues. We are all betrayl and traitors and should be ashamed on our selves. Every word or lettre we write to day murders a norse footstep behind the mists; another story lost and folklore compromised. The only writingpath of our folk is the eldest of fuark. Twenty-four symbols of Sskeggr and His ancient wisdoms. This is our only true writing. Remember you as Egill, son to Skalla-Grmur Kveldlfsson, fled to the tiny island for safety after bringing a man of counsell to his death whilst drunk and vomitus, and on this island he carved runes into a piece of wood and stuck it deep into the ground facing the kings men and those who search for him to capture in order to curse them? With what Egill felt was natural to express his emotion was the way of his folk and land, and the way of Bleygr. Praise be to Egils ways for he was true.

Erlingr, you are a man who knows how to use words to stir Nordic hearts.

I believe we all agree that Nordic nationalists can at least contribute to our common battle by learning the FUARK runes, I have of course and I whet all Nordic Nationalists that do not know them to start learning them as of this moment!

RNIRNAR - THE RUNES (http://www.visindavefur.hi.is/svar.asp?id=3887)

The lowest runes are the younger ones.

Nttfari
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 12:23 AM
My favorite is proto-Germanic, followed by Old Saxon, Runic and Gothic.

Do you know any of these tongues? And what language is Runic? :rolleyes:

Lissu
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 12:32 AM
It looks like many here dislike English, but still, everyone communicates here in English...

...:rolleyes:

anonymaus
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 12:33 AM
It looks like many here dislike English, but still, everyone communicates here in English...

...:rolleyes:

:chatten:

:D

Erlingr Hrbararson
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 12:35 AM
My favorite is proto-Germanic, followed by Old Saxon, Runic and Gothic.
As what does proto-germanic look or sound? I support flagi Nttfari in his query as well.


The only thing on the list close to those is Icelandic. I love the inflections and paradigms. Also love the little funny words that sound very old, which you also have a lot of in Norwegian dialects. What is so funny over them?


The versatility is visible in its ability to create new words with logical methods, much more so than German does anymore. In this respect English is practically dead. Icelandic sounds more rolling and faint than German, but can be just as imperative if not more so. Literature and the art of language have long been in the mind and mood of its speakers. My first language is English btw. :coffee:

Oddstrir
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 12:37 AM
It looks like many here dislike English, but still, everyone communicates here in English...

...:rolleyes:

It is a common language to all, hardly would I make a point speaking in Icelandic whereas this is a forum open to all of you, which do not know my tongue. But this is obvious to you, the point I will make here is simply that even though English has become a universal language, as latin was, it does not mark it's superiority! I do not see how you can imply such whilst you and I both know English's strength comes from Hollywood alone.

If anyone feels easier to express himself through English than his own tongue than it is for his lack of understanding of his own tongue and he should read more in his own language and watch less Spielberg!

Death and the Sun
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 12:46 AM
If anyone feels easier to express himself through English than his own tongue than it is for his lack of understanding of his own tongue and he should read more in his own language and watch less Spielberg!

Mitenks ne suomen kielen opinnot etenee? Tll ei nimittin ihan heti lydy mitn muuta yhteist kielt.

(siis kuin tuo saarivaltakunnan molotus)

Vanir
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 12:49 AM
As what does proto-germanic look or sound? I support flagi Nttfari in his query as well.

What is so funny over them?

:coffee:

Here is a proto-germanic site that explains it, it is basically the -root germanic language from which the germanic languages we know and love today sprang...
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Salon/2385/Theuthiskon.html

As for the use of the word funny, I think know what he means, it isn't a derogatory thing, imagine it more in the way of finding a hidden treasure that delights you, and in Norwegian there are lots of these funny little "hidden treasure" words that are delightful to behold.

Nttfari
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 12:52 AM
Mitenks ne suomen kielen opinnot etenee? Tll ei nimittin ihan heti lydy mitn muuta yhteist kielt.

g skil ekkert hva ert a segja, en a skiptir eflaust litlu mli, lkast til er etta finnskt drykkjuraus. :rofl:

Erlingr Hrbararson
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 12:54 AM
Here is a proto-germanic site that explains it, it is basically the -root germanic language from which the germanic languages we know and love today sprang...
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Salon/2385/Theuthiskon.html I know of what this is, but thanks, Anders.


As for the use of the word funny, I think know what he means, it isn't a derogatory thing, imagine it more in the way of finding a hidden treasure that delights you, and in Norwegian there are lots of these funny little "hidden treasure" words that are delightful to behold.
I prefer the terms 'sacred' and 'pure'.

jcs
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 01:28 AM
Neither am I. It symbolises that which poisons the icestreams within our northhearts. All germanic language is poisonous. We write with a latin alfabet regardless of what language we speak. This latin i.e. roman, alphabet is foreign to our tongues. We are all betrayl and traitors and should be ashamed on our selves. Every word or lettre we write to day murders a norse footstep behind the mists; another story lost and folklore compromised. The only writingpath of our folk is the eldest of fuark. Twenty-four symbols of Sskeggr and His ancient wisdoms. This is our only true writing. :confused:
The runic script(s) are quite similar to the Roman, no?

Both are Indo-European alphabets: hence the similarity between letters, hence the similar syntax, hence the similar vocabulary, and hence my confusion as to why the use of a Latin alphabet is an act of betrayal.

Given, these two alphabets developed seperately (thus the differences), and could therefore be considered foreign to one another, but they are not so dissimilar as to think that the usage of one alphabet by a member of the other culture constitutes treachery.

Oddstrir
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 01:43 AM
Given, these two alphabets developed seperately (thus the differences), and could therefore be considered foreign to one another, but they are not so dissimilar as to think that the usage of one alphabet by a member of the other culture constitutes treachery.

O, but it is in a way. Each time the alphabet of this certain culture is used by a member of the other that member is taking part in the death of his own culture since his alphabet is one of the strongest parts of his culture.

Nttfari
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 01:45 AM
Not only that, but the latin alphabet was forced upon the nations of North Europe with Christianity. That is why it is foreign.

Erlingr Hrbararson
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 01:56 AM
:confused: The runic script(s) are quite similar to the Roman, no? Similarity breeds oneness? This is a kommie ideal.


Both are Indo-European alphabets: hence the similarity between letters, hence the similar syntax, hence the similar vocabulary, and hence my confusion as to why the use of a Latin alphabet is an act of betrayal. I do not believe we are speaking over the same thing. Syntax? Vocabulary? Are you familiar with the runes? We were raped of their magick as christen pigs arrived with a holy cross and roman tongue. You are too modern for me. I was speaking of that which was begot at morning of the first winters.


Given, these two alphabets developed seperately (thus the differences), and could therefore be considered foreign to one another, but they are not so dissimilar as to think that the usage of one alphabet by a member of the other culture constitutes treachery.You are too historical. Your science blinds you from the blood we spilt for Shttr at Vgrr. This is deeper than history. This is of faith and family. The fuark is the only true language of norsefolk. Any lettres you use from romans, chinese osv. symbolise all one thing: the tears from inn. We are murderers. We should return to the forests where we once drank of cold streams and braided ginger hairs. Your pan-aryan propaganda fall before deafen ears. I do not hear you.

Arcturus
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 02:07 AM
http://www.tarahill.com/runes/runehist.html

jcs
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 02:12 AM
You are too modern
You are too historical :laugh: Though not necessarily contradictory statements, I found this amusing.

In regards to syntax and vocabulary: I erred, as I meant to compare the language and alphabet of one culture with those of the other.


Each time the alphabet of this certain culture is used by a member of the other that member is taking part in the death of his own culture since his alphabet is one of the strongest parts of his culture. Language is certainly a strong part of culture, but alphabet? Could you elaborate?

I can understand that the loss of the fuark certainly resulted in the death of some concepts, in that the runes have much more than mere phonetic value; but the average member of the Northern tribes was not proficient in the mystical use of the runes, so one is inclined to wonder how the spread of a closely related alphabet changed the lives of the people of the North significantly.

Oddstrir
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 02:18 AM
Language is certainly a strong part of culture, but alphabet? Could you elaborate?

Alphabet here being the old runes, certainly is a strong part of our culture.

Erlingr Hrbararson
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 02:24 AM
:laugh: Though not necessarily contradictory statements, I found this amusing. You misunderstand. You are too modern in your approach as you and I were bespeaking two different things. You needed to travell further for back and thus your retort was too modern. And you are too historical as in it seem you have no heart and learn from lectures, books and film and not from wind and leaves.


Language is certainly a strong part of culture, but alphabet? Could you elaborate?
I did not say this as Nttfari had, but I wil retort never the less as I know of what he mean. Language is alphabet as land is blood. Our true language was but runes whereby language was written as an alfabet/symbols of soul to express the lifeforce, seaspirit osv. We needed not this silly southerly concept of words, sentence structure osv. to show truth and emotion. We write to day as inferiour rats and we should be ashamed for our hands have no scars from stonecarving or dried blood fingetips as birthmarks to heathen communication.

anonymaus
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 02:26 AM
Language is certainly a strong part of culture, but alphabet? Could you elaborate?

I took this to mean the cultural connection of the Runes to Nordmenn.. in that the alphabet was created from, and tied to, the expression of the bloodsoil bond.

It's tough to express what I'm trying to say, in any, language, right now :speechles

Erlingr Hrbararson
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 02:37 AM
This was added to your posting later...


the average member of the Northern tribes was not proficient in the mystical use of the runes, Were you there? How do you know of this? The spirit of the folk speaks otherwise as if such a weak and faint connection as you say was found, then the spirtual ruins of to day would be much less or even non-existing.


so one is inclined to wonder how the spread of a closely related alphabet changed the lives of the people of the North significantly. Because they are only seemingly related to people like you who learn of old from internett and not from Trs sky. The death of what once was is evidence that enfact the ways of Grskjeggs children were murdered as your roman filth was injected into the winter streams. The alfabets, related at the surface or not, were not one and they never were. You deserve a spear through the midriff for supporting this union of south- and northlore.

HIM
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 08:19 AM
HIM

I was wondering why do you use this avatar?

There are a number of reasons. I am a collector of WWII nazi items and really like the artwork of the German posters for WWII. I like this one in particular because to me, it gives a feeling of unity among the peoples of Northern Europe. The poster seems to be reaching out to Norway as a brother nation in the common cause against the foreigners and non-whites. Lastly, I am of Germanic decent and I also have great respect for the nations and peoples of Scandinavia, so it kind of ties into my ideals.

Erlingr Hrbararson
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 02:22 PM
There are a number of reasons. I am a collector of WWII nazi items and really like the artwork of the German posters for WWII. I like this one in particular because to me, it gives a feeling of unity among the peoples of Northern Europe. The poster seems to be reaching out to Norway as a brother nation in the common cause against the foreigners and non-whites.You should make time and learn of history and paths. Hitler and his krew never "reached out" to Norge. He was obsessed with an ideal and focussed the obession onto Scandinavia whereby what ever he thought was right was how twould be. He raped northgermanic lore and wisdom for a movment which failed to embrace the true motives and spirit of a heathenfaith. The norwegian people never needed him, but he needed the norwegian people. Scandinavian way is the true way of lifeforce, and Hitlers was not. Your avatar is headsick. An SS soldier had not and never wil symbolise the purity and ways by an ancient norseman, a braided son of Grskjegg. Only one who has not understood the old could compare such men. There are two paths of a warriour: one who fights to make a truth, and one who fights to defend it. There is honour in praise and preservation whilst deceit and misunderstanding in recreation and self-righteousness. Do you understand this?

Oddstrir
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 03:27 PM
...so one is inclined to wonder how the spread of a closely related alphabet changed the lives of the people of the North significantly.

I wish to add one thing to Erlingr's replies to your words.

Evidence of the spreading of runic alphabet through the Nordic world and the knowledge of many Norsemen of their runes is displayed by the great variations of runes which later developed, Icelandic runes (which are very different from the FUARKS) and also variations of the FUARK alphabet in for example Denmark.

Indeed, they were the Nordic man's alphabet, not the hobby of a few jarls!

jcs
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 04:07 PM
We needed not this silly southerly concept of words, sentence structure osv. to show truth and emotion. Every language makes use of such "silly... concept[s]," including Germanic tongues.


We write to day as inferiour rats and we should be ashamed for our hands have no scars from stonecarving or dried blood fingetips as birthmarks to heathen communication. I see what you mean: that the Northern cultures have lost much more than an alphabet--they have lost an ancient method of communication. However, this form of communication was certainly not an integral part of the culture, but a triviality when placed in perspective (next to the loss of a wealth of other customs).


The alfabets, related at the surface or not, were not one and they never were. The alphabets--like the languages, like the peoples, like the cultures--find their origins outside of the North, having only come to the Germanic lands (rather, having only made the lands Germanic) when Indo-European tribes migrated North.
I am not saying the two alphabets are the same, but that the runic script did not evolve independantly.
The runic script found its earliest origins in Etruscan and Latin, and shares similarities with some other non-Germanic alphabets (notably Hungarian).
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/runic.htm
http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/origins.html
and, in case you didn't look at Arcturus' link:
http://www.tarahill.com/runes/runehist.html

So, to reiterate my original point, because the alphabets shared similarities and, in fact, common origins, the change from runic script to the Latin alphabet did not constitute a paradigm shift.
And, as poetic as the symbolism of scarred hands may be, lack of wounds from carving does not alter one's worldview in any signficant fashion.

Oddstrir
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 05:22 PM
Though meant for Erlingr whom will reply soon enough, I am sure, I need to make my thoughts on this clear.




I see what you mean: that the Northern cultures have lost much more than an alphabet--they have lost an ancient method of communication. However, this form of communication was certainly not an integral part of the culture, but a triviality when placed in perspective (next to the loss of a wealth of other customs).

There is no argument in saying that it does not matter because it is trivial to other great losses, many great losses do not make a large one any less, yet I consider the change of alphabet a terrible one.



The alphabets--like the languages, like the peoples, like the cultures--find their origins outside of the North, having only come to the Germanic lands (rather, having only made the lands Germanic) when Indo-European tribes migrated North.
I am not saying the two alphabets are the same, but that the runic script did not evolve independantly.

Lest your words are true, this still sits as a mountain: it did evolve in it's own direction and was shaped into a totally seperate product and was, by the time it would have leaped farthest from the other alphabets a product of our forfathers' minds and culture and there seperate from the other.



So, to reiterate my original point, because the alphabets shared similarities and, in fact, common origins, the change from runic script to the Latin alphabet did not constitute a paradigm shift.
And, as poetic as the symbolism of scarred hands may be, lack of wounds from carving does not alter one's worldview in any signficant fashion.

(Outside the point: would it not be a "paradigmatic shift"?)
Common origin? To some regard I and a housefly share a common origin, in fact all things have in a way a common origin, but we are not communists and we should all have realised by now the relativity of such things. The shift is of importance because by the time it has become each alphabet is a product of different people and thus it is of us and does matter!

HIM
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 05:38 PM
You should make time and learn of history and paths. Hitler and his krew never "reached out" to Norge. He was obsessed with an ideal and focussed the obession onto Scandinavia whereby what ever he thought was right was how twould be. He raped northgermanic lore and wisdom for a movment which failed to embrace the true motives and spirit of a heathenfaith. The norwegian people never needed him, but he needed the norwegian people. Scandinavian way is the true way of lifeforce, and Hitlers was not. Your avatar is headsick. An SS soldier had not and never wil symbolise the purity and ways by an ancient norseman, a braided son of Grskjegg. Only one who has not understood the old could compare such men. There are two paths of a warriour: one who fights to make a truth, and one who fights to defend it. There is honour in praise and preservation whilst deceit and misunderstanding in recreation and self-righteousness. Do you understand this?


I know a great deal about Hitler and nazi history, however I must admit that I know very little about Germany's relationship with Norway. It makes sense that Hitler would need the Norseman rather than they needing him. I also don't necessarily like every single part of his movement. But would you not agree that he was trying to bring preservation to Europe moreso than any other at that time? I am curious though, what are your thoughts on the Fhrer?


But in any event, thank you for informing me. I will most certainly research this and will look into a new avatar.

Erlingr Hrbararson
Sunday, May 8th, 2005, 07:56 PM
Every language makes use of such "silly... concept[s]," including Germanic tongues. Yes, they do now. When we were pure, and as was our tongue, we understood and communicated through ancient eyes and sacred symbols. There is no need for us to communicate the way we do to day. We only due so as from convenience and christen pragmatics. The old fire still burns, but soon the ashes of modernity turn our hearts to grey.


I see what you mean: that the Northern cultures have lost much more than an alphabet--they have lost an ancient method of communication. However, this form of communication was certainly not an integral part of the culture, but a triviality when placed in perspective (next to the loss of a wealth of other customs). Sory, jcs, but you do not see on what I mean. This is not just about communication. Losing the first stone you put into the making for a wall means some thing special. The thousandth stone or the hundreth means not a thing, but the one of the first hurts the heart when tis removed or compromised. The wall is no longer the same for from where it comes has been sacrificed to an extent. The symbolism and cultural death are what I mean. Twas indeed a very "integral" part of the culture as it enfact was a founding stone of the wall of our people: a wall within us to day, in ruins, but still inside.

I understand what you say, I believe. That there are other customs which are more important to preserve than a folk's ancient communications/writing system, but I do not see this in this way. Language is ancestry dancing in the mouth and blood is honour from the wounds of those who died for uss, and land is our flesh as twas given to uss by inn. I do not know a hierarchy of these things for they are all one. There is honour in knowing this, I feel.


The alphabets--like the languages, like the peoples, like the cultures--find their origins outside of the North, having only come to the Germanic lands (rather, having only made the lands Germanic) when Indo-European tribes migrated North.
No. You are lost. The three sons of Br -ht einn inn, annarr Vili, rii V- took mirs body, slew by inn, to centres of the great Ginnungagap and from mirs death came this land. From his bloods, the three brothers gave birth to sea and fjords and lochs, from his frostogre flesh came the earth, these trees we see are of his hairs, the clouds are when the three brothers threw upp high mirs brains into Ts sky which was made from mirs skul and from brutal broken bones, we have these mountainns. The brothers made stones and tiny rocks from his cracked jaw and shattered teeth. This is our world. You say some thing of origin outside of Norden? Wel, that would not be an origin at all. This is christen propaganda you tell to me. I do not hear you.


I am not saying the two alphabets are the same, but that the runic script did not evolve independantly.

The runic script found its earliest origins in Etruscan and Latin, and shares similarities with some other non-Germanic alphabets (notably Hungarian).
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/runic.htm
http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/origins.html
and, in case you didn't look at Arcturus' link:
http://www.tarahill.com/runes/runehist.html
This is wrong. Latin, etruscan, jewish, japanese...all never heard or spoken by Ask nor Emblu.

So, to reiterate my original point, because the alphabets shared similarities and, in fact, common origins, the change from runic script to the Latin alphabet did not constitute a paradigm shift.
No, no common origin. Different sources, different soul. My original point was that a compromise of fuark into any other writing system is betrayl and should bring but great shame. I am right, and telling to me that "paradigm shifts" did not occur makes me just laugh. If this means a death of olden beauty, then I agree on it, but I know of it does not.

And, as poetic as the symbolism of scarred hands may be, lack of wounds from carving does not alter one's worldview in any signficant fashion.
Yes it does. It alters every thing.

Valhammer
Monday, May 9th, 2005, 05:17 AM
Getting back on topic, this seems like a rather ridiculous thread. It seems most people vote for their own language, just as I did.

I like Norwegian not only because it's my native tongue, but because the many dialects are so varied. The language in itself is also very poetic. Western and Northern Norwegian seems so closely bound by tradition. In the many towns around the Western Norway skjrgrd, you can't take one step without bumping into a place with a different dialect. Heck, I can take a look out my window and see 4 different regions that have their own dialect.
The language itself is also very poetic, because it's not as rigid as many other languages. By that I mean after Nynorsk was introduced over a hundred years ago, more and more poets and writers have started writing in their own dialects, giving a lot of variety to Norwegian poetry and literature.
There is one thing I don't particularly like, though, and that's Eastern Norwegian dialects, such as Osloml. The entire dialect is built around bokml, which is in reality a bastardized version of Danish. Osloml i basically bokml with lots of slang, and it doesn't sound anything like a traditional Norwegian dialect.

HIM
Monday, May 9th, 2005, 06:50 PM
Erlingr, I was rather confused as to what you were talking about, but after rereading it and checking out some information on the Runic alphabet on the internet, I see your point. I must agree that the loss of the Runic alphabet to the Latin alphabet is a great damage to the culture. Language and alphabet is one of the identifying traits of a culture.

Fox
Thursday, July 14th, 2005, 05:07 AM
I have been thinking about this thread. I voted for German when it was posted and if I had to vote again I would do the same but I want to give credit to some of the other ones for particular strengths:

German - Best sounding, useful for many technical documents (Dutch is a close second for sound)
Icelandic - Best looking when written, also #1 on my list to learn
English - Obviously the most useful, and largest collection of creative literature

Krimhild
Tuesday, July 19th, 2005, 09:36 AM
I like German best, especially the Franconian dialect. I like it how we roll the R.

Loki
Tuesday, July 19th, 2005, 06:39 PM
I like German best, especially the Franconian dialect. I like it how we roll the R.

Welcome Krimhild :)

troapler
Tuesday, July 19th, 2005, 08:15 PM
I like Dutch the best because the pronounciation is flatter than the German language. Which sometime sounds a bit whiny

:coffee:

Fox
Wednesday, July 20th, 2005, 12:44 AM
I notice both Fuark and Ogham alphabets contain a letter for "ng".
Is there a common link for this?

hauer
Monday, July 25th, 2005, 11:30 PM
Danish is beautiful when it's sung.

Randvithr
Tuesday, July 26th, 2005, 12:24 AM
Hard to say. I like them in different ways.

I love the old-norse feeling to the icelandic language, and I love it when girls speak in norweigan (nynorsk), but since Im swedish I must say that I love my own language. And then again english is greatly apriciatet for being such a simple language and such an international language.

But if I had to choose one... Swedish with the skne dialect!

Lissu
Tuesday, July 26th, 2005, 12:42 AM
But if I had to choose one... Swedish with the skne dialect!The most peculiar thing with Germanic languages ever was when trying to understand German spoken with very, and I mean very heavy Skne accent... :D

KirFrid
Tuesday, July 26th, 2005, 03:40 AM
Well, English is my first language, but other than that I'll say Icelandic I guess cause my dad's side comes from there.:viking3:

Amerikanerin
Sunday, July 4th, 2010, 07:37 AM
Until very recently my only favorite language has been English, not only because it's my first language but also because I find beauty, harmony and grace in its structure, sound and expression. It makes me sad when people speak of my language as somehow inferior or "dumb". One should read writers like Tolkien and Kipling to see its true beauty.
But now German is even more attractive to me, partly because it's new and exotic. I have no German ancestry, so this love is somewhat irrational, but I love the very sound of the language. Right now there is nothing more beautiful for me. I started learning German with a friend who speaks it very well and I could just sit and listen to her for hours :) Of course, I like everything else - the grammar and the long compound words etc. Learning it is pure pleasure.

BritishLad
Friday, July 16th, 2010, 03:50 PM
Yorkshire English, why?

Because apart from being my mother tongue it's very colourful and ancient (it's from Old Norse and Old English).

I also like British English (my second mother tongue).

alexross
Wednesday, March 9th, 2011, 09:01 PM
English, well Old English actually.
I am learning it, and it is just more and more fascinating, because it lacks French words.

Hersir
Wednesday, March 9th, 2011, 09:39 PM
Norwegian and Icelandic are the most beautyful I think:)

Fyrgenholt
Wednesday, March 9th, 2011, 09:58 PM
I like English (the North English dialects mostly!), Norwegian, Icelandic and Faroese in particular, but I like all Germanic languages really.

Robbensvolk
Wednesday, March 9th, 2011, 10:03 PM
I love German even though I understand it as a child would. My father would only say things like ach du liebe and Gott in Himmel and other exclamations usually when he was angry. Coupled with the German I learned in school I can understand alot more than I can actually articulate, but every time I hear German it speaks to my soul. English is special because no other language has it's flexibility. One word in English can mean 20 different things depending on the context. Many other languages don't have this capacity. I'm also very interested in older dialects and the process whereby Saxon German became English and how you can walk alot of these words back to the source.

Sybren
Wednesday, March 9th, 2011, 10:23 PM
Frisian.

It's my native language and i like it much better than Dutch, which of course i also speak, living in the Netherlands. I think Frisian is a much warmer, gentler language than Dutch, which comes off a bit harsh and detached to me. I like it when i find out someone else speaks Frisian too, there always is an instant connection then :)

My second favorite language has to be English (quite similar to Frisian) and i like the Scandinavian languages very much. Swedish sounds like a very gentle language to me. I think i would learn it quite quickly too, because it sounds very similar to some Frisian and Dutch words in my opinion. I would like to learn it, but don't know to whom i would speak it...

feisty goddess
Wednesday, March 9th, 2011, 10:25 PM
I would have to say English, because it is the most expressive and complex. German would be next because it sounds the most beautiful. If I were to learn another Germanic language, I would probably try one of the Scandinavian ones though, because I have a much easier time with that pronunciation than German.

Hersir
Wednesday, March 9th, 2011, 10:33 PM
I would have to say English, because it is the most expressive and complex.

Why do you think it is? Other germanic languages are in no way poor.

feisty goddess
Wednesday, March 9th, 2011, 10:36 PM
Why do you think it is? Other germanic languages are in no way poor.

All I was trying to say is that English generally has more words to describe things with. I didn't say other Germanic languages are poor, where did I post that? Thats a pretty big assumption to make on your part.

Hersir
Wednesday, March 9th, 2011, 11:09 PM
All I was trying to say is that English generally has more words to describe things with. I didn't say other Germanic languages are poor, where did I post that? Thats a pretty big assumption to make on your part.

It just seemed like that since you claimed English to be more expressive and complex.

feisty goddess
Wednesday, March 9th, 2011, 11:18 PM
It just seemed like that since you claimed English to be more expressive and complex.

Well, it is to me, slightly.

Granraude
Thursday, March 10th, 2011, 06:45 PM
I voted Norwegian, simply because I love quite a few of the dialects.

I do not like American English though (even though a few accents can be a little cool, like Boston =P ) I do not find English to be more expressive or complex than Norwegian.

Plantagenet
Friday, March 11th, 2011, 02:42 AM
Being that English is my native language, I am of course predisposed to choose it as my favorite. When it comes to English dialects, as an American with a more neutral accent, I would say my favorite dialects/accents in English are the the Irish accent, the high-class Southern accent you usually see attributed to "Southern Belles", and the Cockney/Michael Caine. I also seem to enjoy the Brummie/Birmingham accent.

Aside from English, I would say my favorite Germanic languages are a tie between German and Swedish. German, to my ears, invokes a sort of masculine power when spoken in a certain manner...perhaps this is a reason for the Prussian military commanders sounding so bad-ass or why Hitler was able to influence so many with his speech. German can also sound quite beautiful when spoken by a lady. As for Swedish, it has a sweet melodic sound that is just suitable to my tastes. Icelandic would be a notable third because of its historical and archaic sound to my ears--sounds like the tongue of Vikings to me.

Ingvaeonic
Friday, March 11th, 2011, 06:10 AM
My favourite Germanic language would be modern Low German as it is a good plain Saxon language. And like most Germanic languages, Low German is a greatly clear and concise language, and thoroughly utilitarian in the tradition of Germanic languages. Sadly it is dying out, so I have been told by Skadi members from Platt-speaking areas of northern Germany. Even so, I would love to learn Low German, even just to be literate in the language. If it does die out as a spoken and written regional language in northern Germany and the northeastern Netherlands, it would clearly be a great cultural loss to Germany, the Netherlands, and northern Europe.:~(

Low German was a highly influential language, too. The North Germanic languages of Scandinavia are shot through with loanwords from Low German; even modern English had drawn freely from the word-hoard of Low German during the late Middle Ages and Reformation period and many modern English words originated in Low German. This is due to the fact that Low German was the standard language of the Hanseatic League and so became the lingua franca of the North Sea and Baltic littorals.

Modern English is too Latinised a language for it to be my favourite Germanic language and since the 14th century it is probably more accurate to describe English as a Franco-Germanic language. Modern English is a linguistic crossbreed. It is likely, too, that if the Norman Conquest had never happened and the imported Norman dialect of Old French hadn't knocked out so many Germanic Anglo-Saxon words, modern English would have evolved into a language very similar to modern Low German: both are Saxon languages.

Anlef
Friday, March 11th, 2011, 07:48 PM
This thread is no good, since many if not most people choose their own language. Which of course is fine in itself, but very predictable. So here (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=139622) is a slightly different thread, titled: "Your favourite Germanic language other than your own". Started by me, so you know it's good.

Northern Paladin
Friday, March 11th, 2011, 08:37 PM
The one I speak, English!

I love the British accent, and the Ausie accent more than the neutral Midwestern English that I speak.

My second favorite is German.

Magna Germania
Saturday, May 14th, 2011, 02:49 AM
From the list, Norwegian; in earnest, though, I'm to say Old English over it, though both of which I can speak at least to some degree. Danish comes close. Personally, I have a great liking to all Germanic tongues, both historical and contemporary.

Germaid
Friday, June 3rd, 2011, 04:36 PM
Too bad you can only choose one language. I think choosing one's native language is pointless (mine is German), so I voted for Dutch.

It's really intriguing, I can understand about 90% of it when I read a Dutch text, although I've never had any Dutch lessons. I worked at a camp site a few years ago, ca. 50% of the guests came from the Netherlands. Once there was Dutch guest who spoke neither German nor English. I cannot speak Dutch, but when I spoke German slowly and with a clear pronunciation and he did the same in Dutch, we were able to have a decent conversation. Most fascinating, maybe I'll take some Dutch lessons one day.

I also like Swedish. Though I don't understand anything, I really like the way it sounds.

Oslaf
Wednesday, January 4th, 2012, 02:37 AM
Old English.

Hesse
Wednesday, January 4th, 2012, 02:52 AM
Deutsch natrlich!

Thusnelda
Wednesday, January 4th, 2012, 02:10 PM
Deutsch naturlich!
Is there no way to include our German Umlaute (, , ) into an English keyboard? :|

Heinrich Harrer
Wednesday, January 4th, 2012, 02:49 PM
And why do some americans dislike using 'ue', 'oe', 'ae' instead? I remember I once suggested it to someone else, but he refused to change it and insisted on using a single 'a','o','u' just without the dots. "Natuerlich" looks fine to me, "naturlich" offends my "Sprachgefhl". :P

SpearBrave
Wednesday, January 4th, 2012, 02:57 PM
Is there no way to include our German Umlaute (, , ) into an English keyboard? :|

There is a way, but I forgot how. I know you need a number pad on your keyboard. I use a old POS laptop most of the time and it does not have a number pad.

velvet
Wednesday, January 4th, 2012, 03:39 PM
Keep the left Alt-key pressed while typing on the number pad

= alt + 0228 --- = alt + 0196
= alt + 0246 --- = alt + 0214
= alt + 0252 --- = alt + 0220

(upper case is always -32 of the lower case number combination)

If the keyboard doesnt have a number pad, there's still the system "Character Map" from which one can copy/paste the correct letters.

There should also be a way to activate the normal number keys for this purpose, probably not with the left Alt-key though on kb's without number pad, dont know.

MCP3
Wednesday, January 4th, 2012, 04:17 PM
And why do some americans dislike using 'ue', 'oe', 'ae' instead? I remember I once suggested it to someone else, but he refused to change it and insisted on using a single 'a','o','u' just without the dots. "Natuerlich" looks fine to me, "naturlich" offends my "Sprachgefhl". :P


When being newbie on bulletin boards i used to write the "" as "ae".
But long term this looks very unprofessional. Same goes for non-English keyboard sets using the` for the '.

Hesse
Wednesday, January 4th, 2012, 05:18 PM
Is there no way to include our German Umlaute (, , ) into an English keyboard? :|


There is a way, but I forgot how. I know you need a number pad on your keyboard. I use a old POS laptop most of the time and it does not have a number pad.



Keep the left Alt-key pressed while typing on the number pad

= alt + 0228 --- = alt + 0196
= alt + 0246 --- = alt + 0214
= alt + 0252 --- = alt + 0220

(upper case is always -32 of the lower case number combination)

If the keyboard doesnt have a number pad, there's still the system "Character Map" from which one can copy/paste the correct letters.

There should also be a way to activate the normal number keys for this purpose, probably not with the left Alt-key though on kb's without number pad, dont know.


To get the German characters such as umaluts (, , ) with my Deutsch challenged keyboard, what I usually do is go and find a site in German that has German text (I have a few on my email inbox also), then search out the desired umlaut letter and borrow it from that site copy and paste it into what I'm writing at the moment.

Oslaf
Wednesday, January 4th, 2012, 06:53 PM
And why do some americans dislike using 'ue', 'oe', 'ae' instead? I remember I once suggested it to someone else, but he refused to change it and insisted on using a single 'a','o','u' just without the dots. "Natuerlich" looks fine to me, "naturlich" offends my "Sprachgefhl". :P
That's why I have 4 different keyboard layouts hot-keyed.

Hilderinc
Wednesday, January 4th, 2012, 10:37 PM
Keep the left Alt-key pressed while typing on the number pad

= alt + 0228 --- = alt + 0196
= alt + 0246 --- = alt + 0214
= alt + 0252 --- = alt + 0220

I use
alt + 132 --
alt + 148 --
alt + 129 --

I'm not sure of the shorter code for the capitals.


Also,
alt + 145 ---
alt + 146 ---

It makes you look cool when you're talking about medival archology. I wish more English-speakers would use , , and ᵫ.

Rcher
Thursday, January 5th, 2012, 08:41 AM
Deutsch!

Slivers
Wednesday, January 11th, 2012, 09:53 AM
I voted for German, aside from English which is my native language.
note: I do not know German aside from some words and phrases. but I find listening to German speakers to be quite pleasing.
When considering written language I like Dutch over German and then English as a third.
But when it comes to poetic writing I feel English leads in that category.

All three of these Germanic variations are perfect for penmanship prowess as well.

example:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-20st5HJtqMQ/TbrAF_yf9cI/AAAAAAAAHms/dnIIgp07Hcw/s1600/Escher%252C_Curl-up.jpg

Hildebrandt
Saturday, January 14th, 2012, 02:32 PM
My favourite language is High German, not only because it's my mother tongue but I think it's the highest evolved germanic language. English also sounds very nice but it isn't that clear and precise like German. I think High German is the ideal language for both poetry and science because it's on the one hand possible to argue very precisely in few - often combined - words and on the other hand it offers a lot of variations to express the same things (ideal for poetry).

When hearing other germanic languages they often remember me in some way to german dialects. Dutch and the scandinavian languages are not as smart and elegant as High German, they have more the character of dialects. But I like Swedish very much and it definitely sounds nicely but it doesn't have the format of High German.

oreiar
Saturday, January 14th, 2012, 03:28 PM
Hildebrandt, could you offer some examples to help illustrate this notion?

I'm not trying to contest your opinion, I'm just interested. :)

MCP3
Sunday, January 15th, 2012, 08:01 PM
Hildebrandt, could you offer some examples to help illustrate this notion?

I'm not trying to contest your opinion, I'm just interested. :)

My Great-Grandmother spoke Nederdeutsch ( "Niederdeutsch" or "Platt") and claimed that she not only understood Dutch but was capable of fluent conversations with Dutch and Vlaams. Her 'Nederdeutsch' was almost not to understand for me (or just as good or bad as Dutch), much less for any High-German speakers that were not from the North-West region of Ge.

This indicates what?

A Nederdeutsch speaker from the Northwest could easily talk with a Dutch, but in no way talk to a fellow German from the Bayerischer Wald or Vienna---unless both use High-German.

Halldorr
Sunday, January 15th, 2012, 11:37 PM
Old English.

Old English and old German were the same language. It was called Saxon. It was spoken all over northern Europe. Hoch Deutsche refers to the Bavarian dialect spoken by Martin Luther in the highlands to the south. When he translated the Bible into his dialect ,most of the rest of Germany had to learn Hoch Deutsche.The Catholic church was the most important stabilizing influence in the total chaos known as the middle ages. Everyone had to understand the Bible. English Saxon underwent a modernization with the verbs moving to the middle. High German never changed. I took a year and a half of German in college, but I gave up when I realized I never would be able to communicate effectively in it. To be able to communicate effectively and transfer your thoughts to another you have to have a command of a language. Most people don not even have a command of their own language. So my favorite language is Saxon. We are using it now. It has become the language of the world.

Anlef
Monday, January 16th, 2012, 12:02 AM
Old English and old German were the same language. It was called Saxon.

No, Old English (a.k.a. Anglo-Saxon), Old Saxon (a.k.a. Old Low German) and Old High German developed out of Old West Germanic. Or rather, they developed out of the Old West Germanic dialect continuum.

Juthunge
Monday, January 16th, 2012, 12:47 AM
Old English and old German were the same language. It was called Saxon. It was spoken all over northern Europe. Hoch Deutsche refers to the Bavarian dialect spoken by Martin Luther in the highlands to the south. When he translated the Bible into his dialect ,most of the rest of Germany had to learn Hoch Deutsche.The Catholic church was the most important stabilizing influence in the total chaos known as the middle ages. Everyone had to understand the Bible. English Saxon underwent a modernization with the verbs moving to the middle. High German never changed. I took a year and a half of German in college, but I gave up when I realized I never would be able to communicate effectively in it. To be able to communicate effectively and transfer your thoughts to another you have to have a command of a language. Most people don not even have a command of their own language. So my favorite language is Saxon. We are using it now. It has become the language of the world.

Martin Luther was from the state of Saxony, in Eastern Germany and spoke a form of East Central German(“Schsische Kanzleisprache”), itself a blend of northern and southern dialects, into which the Bible was translated.
The written form of that language was intelligible to both literate Germans in the North and in the South, that’s why it was used in the first place.

The Luther Bible was an important step to a unified written standard language but it wasn’t in Standard German in itself yet.
Standard German (what you call “Hochdeutsch”) is not a “Bavarian Dialect” to begin with, but a far more complex blend. It’s primarily even nowadays a written language, in everyday usage dialects are still predominant.
Very obviously it has also undergone various changes(the High German consonant shift for example) because it originates in the 8th century.

The Catholic Church was strongly opposed to the layman usage of bibles and was therefore against bible editions in the language of the people. The clericals had to be able to read and understand the Bible, the common people had to listen to the Mass in Latin.
They weren’t interested in layman being able to read it, which was precisely something Luther turned against and why he translated the Bible into German.

I don't understand how you can put German as ethnicity if you even refuse to learn the language.

For the rest, I agree with Anlef.

Thusnelda
Monday, January 16th, 2012, 08:21 PM
A Nederdeutsch speaker from the Northwest could easily talk with a Dutch, but in no way talk to a fellow German from the Bayerischer Wald or Vienna---unless both use High-German.
Well, the latter hasnt changed in any way until this very day. :P

Sefo
Tuesday, January 17th, 2012, 06:00 AM
American English, Specifically the Neutral Midwestern dialect. I am also fascinated with the Scandinavian languages. If i were to learn a second language it would probably be Danish or one of those.

Hildebrandt
Tuesday, January 17th, 2012, 04:36 PM
Hildebrandt, could you offer some examples to help illustrate this notion?

I'm not trying to contest your opinion, I'm just interested. :)

It's more like a feeling than something I could really express in detail. I spent half of a year in Sweden and it was very easy for me to learn the basics of the language. It always reminded me in some way to a german dialect. The pronounciation and the verbalization is not that clear, precise and elegant as in High German. It has more the character of a popular speech ("Volkssprache") than High German, which i would categorize as a typical high-level language ("Hochsprache"). I felt that Swedish has a similar popular character as our bavarian dialects. Very nice and sympatic character but not that elegant as High German.

The same of course with Norwegian and Danish, as they are nearly the same as Swedish. And Dutch used to be a German dialect until it was declared as an independent language (I think about 300 hundred years ago).


Old English and old German were the same language. It was called Saxon. It was spoken all over northern Europe.

I don't think so. The Saxons were only one of various germanic tribes which settled in the area of Modern Germany. The other germanic tribes like the Allemans, the Franks or the Bavarians spoke their own germanic dialect. If you want to go back to a time when all german tribes spoke the same language you cannot call it "Saxon" but "West-Germanic".


Hoch Deutsche refers to the Bavarian dialect spoken by Martin Luther in the highlands to the south. When he translated the Bible into his dialect ,most of the rest of Germany had to learn Hoch Deutsche.

That's false. The base of Hochdeutsch are middle-german dialects like East-Saxon. In fact there used to be a rival standard variation to Hochdeutsch used in Austria, Bavaria and other sout german areas. This standard was based on bavarian but lost against Hochdeutsch.


So my favorite language is Saxon. We are using it now. It has become the language of the world.

Hmm. Can Modern English really still be called a germanic language? It's pretty much latinized due to the french influence. Most words are of latin origin only the structure of the language is still predominantly germanic. I think it's easier for English-speakers to learn a latin than a germanic language, isn't it?

Modern German has definitely more in common with the scandinavian languages than with Modern English, although historically English was closer to German.


American English, Specifically the Neutral Midwestern dialect. I am also fascinated with the Scandinavian languages. If i were to learn a second language it would probably be Danish or one of those.

I think Swedish sounds much better than Danish.

Halldorr
Tuesday, January 17th, 2012, 05:26 PM
I don't understand how you can put German as ethnicity if you even refuse to learn the language.

For the rest, I agree with Anlef.

Termper,Temper! Juthunge. That is showing signs of immaturity. I would have expected better from a German man.
Claim ethnicity? Ich anspruch darum Ich sein. The only way to be able to speak a language good is to live in that language's country. It is just too difficult to learn it in a class and from books. At least for me it was.
From Wikipedia: Old Saxon also known as Old Low German is documented from the 9th century until the 12th century when it evolved into Middle Low German. It was spoken on the northwest coast of Germany and in Denmark by Saxon peoples. It is closely related to Old English and Old Frisian.
I should have put Old Low German in my post instead of Old German.

From: A Short History of the German Language by Helmut Richter. (on internet at WWW. IRZ.de)
By the time of Emperor Ludwig the Bavarian(reigned 1314-1347), most imperial documents were written in German, not Latin. Documents he issued as Duke of Bavaria were exclusively written in German. His successor, Karl lV had his chancery at Prague, which had a still greater influence on the common judicial language. At this time the common language was not the language of the ordinary people, but the jargon of imperial administration and lawyers. This changed significantly with Martin Luther's translation of the Bible. Richter says Martin Luther translated the Bible into High German. Luther put some time in selecting a language that would be perceived as natural in the different regions of Germany. He took the chancery language of Prague as his standard but changed its style so that it resembled more the colloquial language of the man in the street.
In the days of the Hanseatic League, Low German was very important in the area of the Baltic Sea and the coastal regions of Germany. But with the decline of the Hanseatic League at the end of the 15th century, High German became increasingly important in the big cities in Germany's north, a tendency which was intensified by Luther's High German Bible. ( These are Richter's words.)

By the way, do you use the translator or are you writing in English? If so, I am impressed by the way you use English. Did you ever live in an English speaking country or did you learn it in school?

Juthunge
Thursday, January 19th, 2012, 01:01 AM
I’m not exactly sure what was so „immature“ about my statement. You’re a German-American or even more precisely, an American of German descent but not German. That’s a fact.
Blood alone is not sufficient to consider someone my kin. I’ve elaborated on this here (http://forums.skadi.net/showpost.php?p=1143514&postcount=230).

You obviously won’t speak the language perfectly but I know many other German-descended Americans that nevertheless make an effort to learn it or preserve the customs.

Most other sources I've seen seem to contradict this (e.g. Adolf Bach, Geschichte der deutschen Sprache).
The Saxon chancery language was undoubtedly influenced by the Prague chancery language, but this influence was minor.
It still roots deeply in the local East Central German dialects Luther himself spoke, themselves strongly influenced by northern and southern German languages.

I'm writing everything by myself and learned it in school for the most part, eventhough I practised it by talking to non-Germans I got to know via gaming or on Skadi and by reading scientifical texts.
I've never been to an English-speaking country.

Hildebrandt
Thursday, January 26th, 2012, 05:08 PM
What do you think should be the leading germanic language?

I think the only two germanic languages with some worldwide reputation are English and German, as nearly nobody who doesn't want to move there learns Dutch, Swedish, Danish etc.

English is the most widely spoken language - not only in the "germanic world" but in the whole word. But it is quite romanized and some people already categorize it as a romanic-germanic blend.

German instead is spoken by far less people, especially in the non-germanic world (in the Netherlands and Skandinavia german skills are still comon), but it had only minor romance influence and can still be seen as a very pure germanic language.

So what do you think should be the "lingua franca" in the germanic world? German or English?

Herr Weigelt
Friday, January 27th, 2012, 01:02 AM
German would probably be a good choice for the Lingua Franca of the Germanic world, and I enjoy speaking English, but my favorite Germanic language would have to be German. From what I know it has the largest vocabulary outside of English, it also has distinct dialects. I had the misfortune of studying French in high school and while I like French, it was a very hard language to learn. There was no option to take German, and at the time I had no interest in Spanish. German, even with very limited knowledge of it, makes more sense to me and I understand the characters a little better. Plus, I always wanted to be able to read the Nuremburg Chronicle in German, but here in the US, there's little chance of me being able to learn German.

Gandalfur
Wednesday, March 21st, 2012, 11:02 AM
My favorite language is Swedish, though American English is my first language. I like the tone sensitive and very clear way that Swedish is spoken. If you read Moberg, Lindgren, Fogelstrom or any of our other greats in Swedish you will have some idea of why I feel this way.

I am surprised we do not have Anglo Saxon listed as a Germanic language. I have felt some sadness about William the Conqueror ever since I first heard the story about how he conquered the English and changed their language. I was thrilled to learn that J.R.R. Tolkein also mourned this as I felt I had finally met a kindred spirit. It would have been better if William had brought French culinary skills to Britain and had left the Anglo Saxon language alone!

paganwinterviking
Wednesday, April 18th, 2012, 03:52 PM
The Germanic languages as a whole are more beautiful and divinely archetypical than any others on earth, because they are the verbal expressions of the Nordic Rassenseele. I voted for Norwegian, but German easily near ties it.

Old Norse would surely have been my first pick had this not merely included modern languages.

Dvergr
Wednesday, April 18th, 2012, 05:07 PM
Old Norse would surely have been my first pick had this not merely included modern languages.

Well played, same as well. And hello fellow NE Germanic.

Dun Holm
Thursday, April 19th, 2012, 01:11 AM
ICELANDIC!!!! I honestly beleive its the most beautiful and interesting language I have ever heard. Faroese would be my second pick.

tigerlily
Sunday, June 24th, 2012, 12:47 AM
ICELANDIC!!!! I honestly beleive its the most beautiful and interesting language I have ever heard. Faroese would be my second pick.

I was just about to say the same. :D Icelandic is honestly one of the most beautiful languages in the world, I think, and so unique. Even the way it looks on the page is simply awesome. Nothing comes close. :)

Svanhild
Monday, July 2nd, 2012, 07:31 PM
German for its precision, rigidity, sound, variety and manifold options. And it's my monther tongue.

Norwegian for its pronunciation and word melody.

Icelandic for its radical neologisms and refusal of adaption of foreign words.

Olavssnn
Monday, July 2nd, 2012, 07:57 PM
I like all of them, but voted for Norwegian, my native tongue, since the poll only allows for one choice...

Vargavinter
Tuesday, July 3rd, 2012, 08:46 AM
It depends. They're all beutiful languages, but when it comes to singing, Swedish is the most beutiful.
Swedish choir music is the best! :thumbup

Olavssnn
Tuesday, July 3rd, 2012, 02:52 PM
Although I'm more attached to my own mother-tongue, I do actually like Swedish just as much as Norwegian from an aesthetical point of view. There is some Swedish dialects that I like better than some Norwegian dialects, and the other way around, but on the whole I admire both languages to more or less the same degree. Norwegian and Swedish may very well be viewed as belonging to the same language - Scandinavian - with a lot of dialect-variations within both languages/dialects.
Norwegian and Swedish are pronounced very similar, while the sound-articulations of Danish is quite different from both of them - and not to offend anyone (all respect to our Scandinavian brothers the Danes), but Danish is probably the Scandinavian language I like the least. Not that I dislike Danish (I certainly don't), but I generally like better the way sounds are articulated in most Swedish and Norwegian dialects.

Georgia
Wednesday, August 17th, 2016, 05:44 AM
German - Deutsch - is my native tongue, meine Muttersprache. There are many different dialects in the German language. My dialect is "Schwbisch." And even amongst Schwaben, although similar, there are different dialects. Germans who hear me speak in my dialect are amazed how "Schwbisch" I speak, even after all these years away.

Here a video, enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNqi3DrdEnU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNqi3DrdEnU)

Georgia :)

Englisc
Wednesday, August 17th, 2016, 11:08 AM
My favorite is my own native tongue - English. Why? It's taken over the world for a reason. English has far more ways in which to express oneself than other languages. Ofcourse this can make things difficult to understand for non-native learners, especially in terms of pronunciation. But the many eccentricities of English are good things in my book.

Also, English is the only European language that has lost grammatical gender. Honestly I think this is a major advantage of English, atleast for learners. For instance, when I learn German, I have to learn the gender of things that have no gender. For example a table is male - "Der Tisch". This makes no sense to me - a table doesn't need to have a gender.

My favorite dialects of English, both in accent and in vocab, are Northern English (especially the old Yorkshire dialect, though this is becoming rare), Southern US, and Australian.

I also love German. German is a very logical language and probably one of the easier for English speakers. I enjoy seeing the similarities between English and German too. I am also amused by the simplicity of German words. eg, Pediatrician is "Kinderarzt" (child-doctor).

Wulfaz
Wednesday, August 17th, 2016, 04:40 PM
It is the german of course, but I like the english, the words, the voices. Another favourite of mine is the swedish. It is absolutely pretty language, I don't speak it, but those similar words (hammar, fisk, kuning) and those funny voices (sjutte, lingom, Dalarna) are so cool.

Shadow
Wednesday, August 17th, 2016, 06:31 PM
This is not a fair question. Everyone would probably say their language is their favorite. English has been evidently a lingua franca for a long time, helping the Danes and Anglo-Saxon speak in England. It has been simplified yet takes on loan-words easily. English retains its Germanic syntax but is flexible and adaptable and simple so it is still a lingua franca.

Thusnelda
Saturday, August 20th, 2016, 01:03 AM
Also, English is the only European language that has lost grammatical gender. Honestly I think this is a major advantage of English, atleast for learners. For instance, when I learn German, I have to learn the gender of things that have no gender. For example a table is male - "Der Tisch". This makes no sense to me - a table doesn't need to have a gender.

I enjoy seeing the similarities between English and German too. I am also amused by the simplicity of German words. eg, Pediatrician is "Kinderarzt" (child-doctor).

Well, I dont think that the simplicism of English is a good direction to go. A language must be precise, and the loss of the grammatical gender feels like an infantilization of an once great language. :( When I look at Old High English texts is see many similarities with Old High German and that it was more precise and had more options.

And I also think that English has adopted way too many latin words. Almost half of the English words are of Roman-Latin origin. Like you say: "Pediatrician". Or how can someone really use a strange Latin word like "Procrastination" for "Aufschieben"?

English could be great but it doesnt feels really Germanic anymore.

Lothringer
Tuesday, November 1st, 2016, 03:37 AM
High German is, to a certain extent, an artificial language, the grammar of which was strongly influenced by Latin. Its vocabulary is teeming with Latin loanwords : Strae, Wein, Keller, Kaiser, Pfeil, Tisch, Pferd, Pfund, Pfeife, Mauer... to name but a few. Do they make German less Germanic ? I don't think so.

My favourite language is a more natural tongue that used to be called "ditsch" until World War II ("mir schwtze ditsch" was invariably the answer given to outsiders enquiring about the name of the language they were hearing) before we were told its official name was Frankish.
The German language here has preserved some of its original inflections : we say "Hus" and "Win" instead of "Haus" and "Wein", "Summer" and "kummen" instead of "Sommer" and "kommen", "ich han" instead of "ich habe" or "Imm" instead of "Biene" - ob das nicht gemtlich klingt ?

Wulfaz
Tuesday, November 1st, 2016, 09:38 AM
My best one is the Standard German with very complex and logic grammar, and with a huge dictionary. Side by side this (precisly the Swabian and Bavarian High German) were the language of my ancestors.

The other one is the Swedish what has so many common word with the German, however the grammar a little bit hard for a German speaker. I love in the Swedish the archaic sound system as it have double consonant, but the German yet doesn't pronouce these, f.e. Swedish "Hammar", but German "Hammer" with one 'm'. Another sample is the Standard German's uvular 'r' what has comen from the French under the 19th century, side by side in the German village and the Swedish pronounce the trill 'r'. These pronunciations are more archaic than the Standard German. Side by side the Swedish Grammar is more simply, furthermore it has becomen primitive to compare the German. F.e. Jag r, Du r, Han/Hon/Hen r, Vi r, Ni r, De r side by side Ich bin, Du bist, Er/Sie/Es ist, Wir sind, Ihr seid, Sie sind. This is more simply than the English.

However I absolutely like this language, because it has a very good taste of sound.

Ingvaeonic
Friday, November 4th, 2016, 12:36 PM
I can't say I have a favourite as such. But the Low German/Low Saxon group of West Germanic languages (Plattdeutsch/Plattdtsch or Niederdeutsch/Nedderdtsch & Nedersaksisch) as the modern descendant of Old Saxon is, for me, an interesting language and pleasant to listen to when spoken fluently.

If I were younger, I would attempt to learn to speak and read/write Low German. This would be an interesting and worthwhile occupation. All modern North Germanic languages are interesting with an interesting philological history and they, too, would be well worth learning.

Catterick
Saturday, April 29th, 2017, 10:26 PM
Old Norse. :)

MarsOsix
Monday, May 1st, 2017, 03:26 AM
In terms of morphosyntax, the more conservative, the more interesting to me. So, Proto-Germanic? :P Clearly Icelandic in terms of surviving languages.

As far as phonology and phonetics go, I like the sound of the West Germanic languages a lot more, and probably German the most.

Old English was REALLY cool, but modern English has got to be my least favorite Germanic language. The massive number of non-Germanic loans in educated speech leave the origins of most words obscure to the average speaker. People talk of the "simplicity" of German morphological constructions like it contrasts with the "complexity" of English constructions - but beneath the surface, that's not really it - it isn't complexity, just foreignism, which originated in the tendency of pretentious folks to use French words to sound more "sophisticated" in contrast to the "lower" Anglo-Saxon "herd". It's funny how Russians have almost the same connotation with French - this trope features very prominently in Slavophile literature.

And of course in terms of morphosyntax, English is sort of boring too, as the most isolating/analytic/creole-oid Germanic language. It's really the Chinese of Indo-European languages.