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Demigorgona
Sunday, July 6th, 2003, 06:51 AM
Skinheads are Modern Neanderthals
-For the Jew Tells us so-

There are people out to give Skinheads a bad name. The Jewish media for one, and those who believe and then perpetuate the Jewish myths about skins. There are also those people who are out to make a name for themselves, who like the image we have been given by the Jews. They want to be seen as ‘bad ass’.

They shave their heads and call themselves skinheads. They go out beating up everyone they come across, drunk as drunk can get. They call this fun. They think that is what being a skinhead is all about. They know nothing about what a skinhead really is. They are not fighting for our race. They watched a little too much American History X and Romper Stomper. The Jew media thrive on this and make these shaven punks out to be stereotypes of what a real skinhead is. Due to this unfair portrayal, even our brothers and sisters in the movement look at us negatively. They truly believe we are violent trouble makers, no better than punks and gangsters.

We are good people, we are not looking for a fight. Yes, we can turn violent but we do not tolerate anyone trying to attack us and what we believe in; we will defend ourselves and our race.

The only reason anyone ought to be a skinhead is a matter of attitude. We live our beliefs, not a few hours a day, not on weekends and after work, not after a few beers, but full time; all hours of the day. Being a skin is about blood, not just image.

It is more than a fashion statement, it is a way of life! It is not about being violent and getting drunk, it is about preserving race. We are hard-working, have high moral standards. We are loyal, passionate and true, warriors fighting for the good of the white race.

It is time to show our brethren and all white this! Everyday we must all try our best to do only positive acts. Give up your seat on the bus for white seniors or women. Open doors for other whites. Be as polite as possible. Do what you can for your community to improve it for whites. Shed the image of us being low lifes and show everyone that skinheads are good white, working class men and women.

As for our non-skinhead brethren: bravo to those who support our efforts and who see past the image the jews have given us. To the rest; I ask you just where do you think your loyalties lie? Do you wish to divide the movement by vilifying skinheads? I bid you to take the time to get to know your local skins. Perhaps then you will the flames in our souls which make us so passionate about our race, our will to survive and to ensure the survival of our race!

F**k the spirit of ’69 and long live the spirit of 88!

RaHoWa

Liz Lampman

cosmocreator
Sunday, July 6th, 2003, 07:26 AM
Why neanderthals? Do you not misrepresent them as jews misrepresent skin heads?

Scáthach
Sunday, July 6th, 2003, 01:27 PM
that was good to read Demi, there is NOTHING wrong with skins and the people who tend to have a problem with them are anti racists or supposed racialists who cant be bothered to get out and do something for themselves! :prost

Azdaja
Monday, July 7th, 2003, 07:48 PM
My main problem with Skinheads is that they are usually very rowdy and coarse. They seek to solve nearly everything with violence, which makes me liken many of them to albino negroes.
(To prove my point, the skinhead reaction to the above comment would almost certainly be "let's settle this outside".)

I also dislike their continued use of nazi imagery. We are NOT living in the 1930's and most of us are NOT living in Germany.
The nazi symbols make anyone who uses them appear to be a freakish nutjob.

Grimr
Monday, July 7th, 2003, 10:01 PM
The nazi symbols make anyone who uses them appear to be a freakish nutjob.

I use them... Moving on :D If you are going to talk about the 1930's and Hitler think about the brown shirts people thought they where thugs and they solved everything with violence and Hitler wanted that way!

Young white men are supposed to be violent! If you don't throw some punches you are on a quick boat to faggot town!

The only problem I have with skins is that they don't do any thing apart from drink and fight! You get 10 skinheads and I bet you only 8 of them have ever been to a rally, only 4 of them have ever been in a march! I bet all of them have been in fights but how many have risked their lives saving their comrades when things don't turn out well?

Sicklecellanemia
Tuesday, July 15th, 2003, 03:09 PM
Young white men are supposed to be violent! If you don't throw some punches you are on a quick boat to faggot town

That's right. We are a compassionite race, but we are also warriors deep in our hearts. When need be, we can become quite formidible.


The only problem I have with skins is that they don't do any thing apart from drink and fight!

That is incorrect. A lot of Skins pass out flyers, attend rallies, etc..
There also seems to be a difference in attitude between East coast Skins and West coast Skins in the USA.

Thorburn
Tuesday, July 15th, 2003, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by Demigorgona
drunk as drunk can get. They call this fun. They think that is what being a skinhead is all about. They know nothing about what a skinhead really is. They are not fighting for our race. The Jew media thrive on this and make these shaven punks out to be stereotypes of what a real skinhead is. Does that mean that 90+% of all skinheads are not skinheads but shaven punks?


We are hard-working, have high moral standards. It is time to show our brethren and all white this! Everyday we must all try our best to do only positive acts. Give up your seat on the bus for white seniors or women. Open doors for other whites. Be as polite as possible. Do what you can for your community to improve it for whites. I would first have to meet a greater accumulation of skinheads that fits this description. As Liz so desperately tries to motivate them to behave like this, she seems to be well-aware that the reality differs quite a bit.


As for our non-skinhead brethren: bravo to those who support our efforts and who see past the image the jews have given us. The Jews! Of course, I forgot! But honestly, I don't need Jews to tell me what skinheads are. I could and can witness with my own eyes how most of them behave. And I can read their criminal records.


Do you wish to divide the movement by vilifying skinheads? I am not in any "movement", that's perhaps why I can afford to keep a truthful, independent opinion. ;)


I bid you to take the time to get to know your local skins. Yes, I did, masses of them. For more than two years. Even gypsies have cleaner houses, and are more disciplined and more productive. What a waste of time.


Perhaps then you will the flames in our souls which make us so passionate about our race, our will to survive and to ensure the survival of our race! Yes, the skins will save us ... NOT! I can already see Blood & Honour running the U.K. :D

Scáthach
Wednesday, July 16th, 2003, 01:15 AM
aww thats a bit harsh Thorburn, at least they help since most of them are gorgeous they can end up having children with white girls :D

Thorburn
Wednesday, July 16th, 2003, 01:40 AM
Originally posted by Scathach
aww thats a bit harsh Thorburn, You think so? :scared


at least they help since most of them are gorgeous they can end up having children with white girls :D Isn't it exactly the circumstance that at latest since the industrial revolution the lower classes - the peasants, the workers and the administrators - have outbred the higher classes - the idependent farmers, the entrepreneers and the academics ("academic" not by today's but by pre-20th century standards) by at least 2 : 1 in every generation that contributed to, if not predominantly accounts for, the Decline of the Occident and the poor quality of our gene pool today? :evil[... but I am serious ...]

Scáthach
Wednesday, July 16th, 2003, 02:23 AM
lol you really dont like them! ok, well my 2 cents , ive only met a few (all the skins in ireland probably lol) about 9 or 10 and theyre all great but i suppose american ones may be a bit more extreme and obviously the c18 people need a bullet between the eyes more than recognition...so in my experience i have met intelligent, patriotic men who are also more than capable of defending themselves, which is a good thing of course. i imagine american skins sitting around discussing how the jews are shafting them isnt a recipe for a ''white homeland'' or a great sign of intelligence but i still have respect for people who stand up for their beliefs, i even have respect for unionists, so its just my way of thinking - if someone tries to make a difference and lives by their beliefs, that is admirable, whether you agree with their beliefs or not.
as i said, ive never met any stereotypical skins who just like to drink and beat non whites up so my judgement is coming from the nice people i have met rather than guys like those from ''higher learning'' that i get the feeling you and others have been subjected to :)

Evolved
Saturday, August 2nd, 2003, 12:52 AM
I met 2 skinheads I really liked, but all the rest were mental.

I think once you get past age 18 it's time to put an effort into looking and acting like a normal person. Getting stuck in the same attitude for your whole life like some of these people do, where can it lead? There was a 50-year-old skinhead posting in some forum about his grandchildren. Why not just go on the Jerry Springer show and get it over with, LOSER? If you haven't grown, matured and changed in your life from how you acted as a teenager, I'd consider that a sign of being a failure.

I'm glad I never was a skinhead. :mock

Demigorgona
Saturday, August 2nd, 2003, 12:57 AM
You could never be a skinhead. You know nothing of honour or respect towards your racial brethren.

Being a skinhead is not a fad, it is a way of thinking and living. It is not about getting drunk, it is about fighting for your race. Please explain what is so childish and immature about that?

Try saying what you just said to a skinhead in real life... Then again you wouldn't have enough guts to :)

Scáthach
Saturday, August 2nd, 2003, 01:03 AM
i'm still with demi on this one, ive liked all the skins ive met and certainly respected them, respected them far more than ''i care about preserving my race, infact i can preserve them while sitting in my house'' brigade that tends to be rife in most countries.

Evolved
Saturday, August 2nd, 2003, 01:40 AM
You act like I don't speak from personal experience. I know and have been around these people. And I don't like the image they present. I'm not skinhead material! I'm glad! HAHAHA! I'll put that one up on my fridge. :D

It is very much a fad for some people, as it should be. You think you're still going to be a skinhead when you're 65 years old? No? Then it's a "fad" or a "stage" you go through. It's a "subculture," and a way of acting/looking which is incompatible with any White culture I know of. Name one European culture in which young women shave their heads, crossdress and beat people up "for their race." :ehm

If a skinhead would beat me up for expressing a negative opinion of their "way of life" that just proves they are NEANDERTHALS. If there is nothing wrong with being a skinhead, you wouldn't need to make these posts defending your lifestyle all the time, would you? :D

I'd say it to your face. :devil

cosmocreator
Saturday, August 2nd, 2003, 06:44 PM
My experience with skinheads has been negative. I've been treated better by Jews, negros, chinese -- well pretty much everyone generally speaking. Even when the latter know of my views they treat with more respect than skinheads. I've made myself available to skinheads here in BC to meet as adults but instead they carry on like children. My view of them is that they are arrogant and immature.

Ewergrin
Sunday, August 10th, 2003, 11:51 PM
You could never be a skinhead. You know nothing of honour or respect towards your racial brethren.

Being a skinhead is not a fad, it is a way of thinking and living. It is not about getting drunk, it is about fighting for your race. Please explain what is so childish and immature about that?

Try saying what you just said to a skinhead in real life... Then again you wouldn't have enough guts to :)



WOAH. Just because she doesnt like skinheads (in general) means she doesnt know anything about respect and honour for her racial brethren? How so? Does that mean that the ONLY truly pro-whites are skinheads, and the rest of us are practically mongoloids? I grow my hair very long because I believe that hair is the outward sign of a persons life-force. This is an ancient, pre-judaic germanic belief. Do I shun whites who shave their heads just because it doesn't fall into my way of life? Absolutely not. In general, I dont like skinheads primarliy because of their personal politics. Also, I would have no problem telling anyone of them anything that I wanted to their face. They don't scare me or intimidate me, because I have no reason to be scared or intimidated by a fellow white man. And if he/she seriously has a problem with my words or beliefs, and wants to have a conflict because of them, then it would only prove certain people right about their neanderthal behaviour.

Phlegethon
Monday, August 11th, 2003, 02:02 PM
Comparing skinheads to Neanderthalers is an insult to the latter. I live only a couple of miles away from the beautiful Neanderthal. Skinheads on the other hand are predominantly straight from the sewers.

Stríbog
Monday, August 11th, 2003, 07:02 PM
Comparing skinheads to Neanderthalers is an insult to the latter. I live only a couple of miles away from the beautiful Neanderthal. Skinheads on the other hand are predominantly straight from the sewers.

Finally someone who shares my opinion on skinheads :smilies

Loki
Monday, August 11th, 2003, 07:11 PM
Are there any perceived differences in skinheads from different nationalities? For example, would a Canadian skinhead be similar to, say, an American, German, Swedish, English, Irish, Polish one?

Excuse my ignorance beforehand.

cosmocreator
Monday, August 11th, 2003, 07:26 PM
Are there any perceived differences in skinheads from different nationalities? For example, would a Canadian skinhead be similar to, say, an American, German, Swedish, English, Irish, Polish one?

Excuse my ignorance beforehand.


I think they are different. I've met some American skinheads and they seemed alright.

Scáthach
Monday, August 11th, 2003, 10:34 PM
i would agree, the irish skins i know are grand.

Phlegethon
Tuesday, August 12th, 2003, 11:30 AM
Most Swedish and Italian skinheads seem to be OK, basically because most of them are activists in one way or another. They also seem to be much more educated than the average skinhead.

I have found British (well, actually English) skinheads to be the worst.

Anyway, the problem with skinheads is that they live an essentially (self)destructive, shallow and primitive lifestyle which is also non-European in origin. If you really want to be a nationalist you don't get tattooed, pierced or branded. You dress well, get a decent haircut and try to convince others by giving a personal example of the society you envision. That is something skinheads completely fail to understand.

Demigorgona
Tuesday, August 12th, 2003, 04:16 PM
Tattoos and piercings are European in nature. The Ancient Celtic Druids tattood themselves with Woad ... 'honour marks' ...they identified the Druid as being a Druid.

Piercing were also quite popular with sailors but the Rich soon became interested in them in the 1800s I believe.


Please tell me which part of my lifestyle is self destructive or primitive.

I wake up in the morning, get something to eat. I come on here to read a bit. Then I get off and walk to work. I work 8 hours, outside doing exterior renovation/construction. I come home. Have a nap, Eat dinner then get on the net for a few hours or read a book.

On weekends I go for hikes up mountains, get on the net, read a book etc... Very rarely do I drink and when I do, i keep myself under control.

I don't live in a factory, I don't live on the street, I don't live in some old run down shack in a bad area of town.

I do as much as I can for my race and I try to behave as honourably as I can in real life.

I graduated highschool with honours, I completed the College level courses needed to get into University (and did quite well) I then completed one year of University Majoring in English and Minoring in French although I was going to switch over to Biotechnology. Unfortunately I did not have the money to continue on in order to get my bachelors...

So please let me know what is so primitive about my lifestyle :)

Scáthach
Wednesday, August 13th, 2003, 01:23 AM
sounds healthier than my lifestyle Demi ;)
i think the problem is generalising, so many skins may like the violence and the drinking - who is to say they're the people who stick with the ''lifestyle''?
perhaps they're the exact ones who come along, give the rest a bad name and then turn to football hooliganism and leave nationalist matters to the real skins. so, you all may feel you have warrant to generalise and thats fine i guess, i personally find constant stereotyping worrying and hardly beneficial.

Phlegethon
Wednesday, August 13th, 2003, 01:54 AM
My judgement is based on two decades of empirical study. Here are some of the results:

Most skins aren't working class. They are welfare class. If they accidentally get a job they lose it in no time because they either don't appear at their workplace, come in drunk or wear inappropriate skinhead clothes - particularly T-shirts with stereotypical signs and slogans that don't discover their equally stereotypical tattoos. Even when they don't get a job because they are tattooed on their necks or in their faces it's never them but always the Jews.

They never have money for anything that comes close to political activism. They do however have plenty of money to spend on alcohol, tobacco, CDs, skinhead clothes and trips to soccer matches all over the country.

I could go on and on but it is already 2:45 a.m. and I am basically tired of talking about skinheads. To me they are on the same level as punks, hip-hoppers, rappers, and the MTV generation in general. In love with a lifestyle and fashion. The fascination of some skinheads with national Socialism would end quickly when they realize on which side of the electric barbwire fence their place is reserved.

Demigorgona
Wednesday, August 13th, 2003, 02:05 AM
Most skins aren't working class. They are welfare class.

That would make them punks and not skins; despite whatever they call themselves... I know of no true skins who do not work. As a matter of fact I know of more so called racial activists on welfare then I know of Skins on welfare.



If they accidentally get a job they lose it in no time because they either don't appear at their workplace, come in drunk or wear inappropriate skinhead clothes - particularly T-shirts with stereotypical signs and slogans that don't discover their equally stereotypical tattoos. Even when they don't get a job because they are tattooed on their necks or in their faces it's never them but always the Jews.


My first Job I held for 4 years straight, I quit because I was moving to another city. While I couldn't find work, I went to a temp placement agency and was working almost everyday. I am now working on a contract job with the city I live in. I have no problems with my tattoo (Well it's only small and on my back just under my neck and it says RaHoWa in Runes), I have never had enough money to buy any racial shirts, nor would I want to ruin them at work. I have never had a problem getting work.



They never have money for anything that comes close to political activism. They do however have plenty of money to spend on alcohol, tobacco, CDs, skinhead clothes and trips to soccer matches all over the country.


That is funny. I do smoke, but I buy bags of Tobacco and stretch it to last a month. That is only 15$ a month. I never by alcohol unless I manage to get some extra money (which is rare), I burn all my music since I cannot afford to buy any, my skinhead clothes are all second hand bought...I refuse to pay 100$ for a pair of jeans or a t-shirt...I am working class and I cannot afford to pay a tenth of my monthly wages on clothing. As a matter of fact. Most of the skins I know are just like me. They can't afford to waste their money on things. We have bills to pay ... not to mention the cost of being active.


To me they are on the same level as punks, hip-hoppers, rappers, and the MTV generation in general. In love with a lifestyle and fashion. The fascination of some skinheads with national Socialism would end quickly when they realize on which side of the electric barbwire fence their place is reserved.

You need to learn the difference between fashion skins aka punks and real skinheads.

I am not National Socialist. Not all skinheads are National Socialist.

You tend to over generalise things and I believe that is where you went wrong in the first place.

Phlegethon
Wednesday, August 13th, 2003, 02:18 AM
I had to deal with skinheads when you were still sitting in the sandbox in kindergarten. A few exceptions do in no way alter my judgement of them. They are the albatross around our neck. The first step - if you want to actually achieve something that goes beyond puerile pulp fiction RAHOWA - is to leave skinheads behind. By the way, I still have to find the first Creatard who is able to express at least one thought in Latin. Wasn't that Klassen's idea? Latin as a universal language? Heck, most Creatards cannot even express themselves coherently in English (and I use that term loosely). Apart from Klassen's own atrocious Latin most of his later followers haven't quite understood the "salubrious living" part either.

Evolved
Wednesday, August 13th, 2003, 02:43 AM
Are there any perceived differences in skinheads from different nationalities? For example, would a Canadian skinhead be similar to, say, an American, German, Swedish, English, Irish, Polish one?

Excuse my ignorance beforehand.

Hungarian skinheads I met were all very nice. American skins usually are either rude to me, or just very immature and unintelligent. :worried

The creation of a counter-culture is admitting that something is wrong with the traditional or prevalent culture. Seeing as it started in Britain as it began to multiculturalize, I don't see why they didn't use ethnic pride symbolism native to Britain, instead of mocking the hairstyles of Jamaican immigrants (the origin of the shaved head) and taking up the Jamaican-influenced ska music. The whole thing is spawned by a dislike of black immigrants, though it imitates them. Just stupid any way you look at it.

They give the worst possible image to racially aware white people.

Borivoj
Wednesday, August 13th, 2003, 03:02 AM
Obviously there are many exceptions regarding the behavior and life style of skins, but all the one's I have met are drunk/high losers who constantly fight and damage things. I'm really sick of their graffiti on buildings as well...

Demigorgona
Wednesday, August 13th, 2003, 06:53 AM
I had to deal with skinheads when you were still sitting in the sandbox in kindergarten. A few exceptions do in no way alter my judgement of them. They are the albatross around our neck. The first step - if you want to actually achieve something that goes beyond puerile pulp fiction RAHOWA - is to leave skinheads behind. By the way, I still have to find the first Creatard who is able to express at least one thought in Latin. Wasn't that Klassen's idea? Latin as a universal language? Heck, most Creatards cannot even express themselves coherently in English (and I use that term loosely). Apart from Klassen's own atrocious Latin most of his later followers haven't quite understood the "salubrious living" part either.


You just showed your true colours... Who do you support? The Jew loving AmRen? HAH

Don't like skins, Don't like creators...you must love the Jewboys...

BTW...RaHoWa has been going on since the Jews created Christianity in an attempt (a successful one at that) to destroy the Roman Empire. It is a struggle between races. We fight it now as a war between ideas and beliefs. If you cannot see that then I do not know what you are doing here.



The creation of a counter-culture is admitting that something is wrong with the traditional or prevalent culture. Seeing as it started in Britain as it began to multiculturalize, I don't see why they didn't use ethnic pride symbolism native to Britain, instead of mocking the hairstyles of Jamaican immigrants (the origin of the shaved head) and taking up the Jamaican-influenced ska music. The whole thing is spawned by a dislike of black immigrants, though it imitates them. Just stupid any way you look at it.

They give the worst possible image to racially aware white people.


That is about as ignorant as it gets...Jamaicans arrived in England as cheap labour with dreadlocks covered in dung not to mention lice. Their heads were shaved in order to get rid of the lice.

Skinheads on the other hand chose to shave their heads, as their fathers before, so as to not get headlice from the other dock workers...

They listened to punk...not ska. Eventually their own type of punk transformed into 'oi'. Oi has no ska roots. Oi has no negroid roots. It is purely a white working class type of music.

All you are doing is trying to reguritate the crap that Sharpies and other wanna be anti-white shyteheads (who call themselves skins) say. The fact of the matter is that the roots of the skinhead movement are of purely white, British-nationalist, working class skinheads. Not negroids.

The next time you try to trash something you obviously know nothing of, at least attempt to educate yourself first.

Phlegethon
Wednesday, August 13th, 2003, 09:04 AM
You just showed your true colours... Who do you support? The Jew loving AmRen? HAH

Don't like skins, Don't like creators...you must love the Jewboys...

Exactly this childish behavior makes me strongly dislike people like you. It also proves that a high school diploma is not a documentation of any kind of intellect. Especially not in the U.S., apparently also not in Canada. The only difference seems to be that you have to learn French instead of Spanish.

Sunt pueri pueri puerilia tractant. Ask a fellow creatard what it means.


ROWENTA!



They listened to punk...not ska. Eventually their own type of punk transformed into 'oi'. Oi has no ska roots. Oi has no negroid roots. It is purely a white working class type of music.

There were plenty of skinheads around already when the Sex Pistols were still in elelmentary school. Maybe you next time should ask someone who actually was around during that era instead of posting such nonsense.

Thorburn
Thursday, August 14th, 2003, 01:08 AM
You just showed your true colours... Who do you support? The Jew loving AmRen? HAH
Don't like skins, Don't like creators...you must love the Jewboys... The idea that someone that dislikes the ideology, mindset, or behavior of skins and creators must be a lackey or a lover of Jews, is as logically fallacious as it only can be. You could as well conclude, he loves Zigeunerschnitzel. It's like claiming that someone that dislikes hamburgers and tacos must love icecream or blue jeans.

Discussions would be more productive, if people tried to stay on the path of rationalism, instead of taking refuge in sophist tactics and launching personal attacks against members, about whose achievements and level of activism they know little or nothing.

Demigorgona
Thursday, August 14th, 2003, 03:50 AM
That goes both ways Thorburn...

Phlegethon
Thursday, August 14th, 2003, 09:42 AM
You could as well conclude, he loves Zigeunerschnitzel.

Guilty as charged.

Am I fired now? ;)

Phlegethon
Thursday, August 14th, 2003, 01:48 PM
Discussions would be more productive, if people tried to stay on the path of rationalism, instead of taking refuge in sophist tactics and launching personal attacks against members, about whose achievements and level of activism they know little or nothing.

That wasn't sophist. Sophistic means clever and subtle, though misleading. All I found was just a daft puerile remark so typical of creatards.

Thorburn
Friday, August 15th, 2003, 03:00 AM
That goes both ways Thorburn...
Certainly. Feel free to point out fallacies in my thoughts, whenever you find some.

Thorburn
Friday, August 15th, 2003, 03:11 AM
That wasn't sophist. Sophistic means clever and subtle, though misleading. All I found was just a daft puerile remark so typical of creatards.
Sophist enough for average skins or leftist half-wits that populate our universities, I fear. How often have you heard a conclusion à la "He 'denies the Holocaust', and he is a 'xenophobe', thus he must be a 'Nazi'"?

Hell, this sort of "logic" is well-established in the Supreme Court even.

hardcorps
Friday, August 15th, 2003, 12:57 PM
Can't we just accept that the Skins represent a more working class type of element that would exist in any white society? Although I must defer somewhat to those with real experience around these people (as I have next to none), Demi - in particular - seems completely genuine.

While I doubt I would ever join a religious body - as I prefer to 'work things out for myself' - WCOTC seems relatively germane;) to my sensibilities.

OTOH, I understand how EU citizens must be careful about the unwanted legal attention Skins bring.

I certainly don't see Skins, worldwide, as neanderthals/creatards. No doubt there are bad elements, and the differences might well be largely along geographical lines(?)

By disparaging them at every turn you're unlikely to turn them into rightwing intellectuals! What's more, I'm glad to see the old symbols still paraded here and there.

Skins as a whole do not deserve our scorn, IMO.

Ewergrin
Friday, August 15th, 2003, 11:46 PM
Can't we just accept that the Skins represent a more working class type of element that would exist in any white society?


They certianly do not represent me, and I feel that I am a good representation of the "working class element" that you speak of.

Grimr
Sunday, August 17th, 2003, 03:02 PM
They certianly do not represent me, and I feel that I am a good representation of the "working class element" that you speak of.

So who represents the Aryan element??? I detest the idea that white supremacists have a need to represent the "working class element" that sounds very much like Bolshevism! We should not produce these ideas for they work against us!

We should produce the ideas that all whites are equal and that we are fighting for diversity for whom is more diverse than our race? With our people of brown hair and blue eyes and blonde hair and brown eyes and black hair and blue eyes and so on, opposed to the other races who only differ through their shade of pigment all having black hair and brown eyes!

Ewergrin
Sunday, August 17th, 2003, 03:09 PM
So who represents the Aryan element??? I detest the idea that white supremacists have a need to represent the "working class element" that sounds very much like Bolshevism! We should not produce these ideas for they work against us!

We should produce the ideas that all whites are equal and that we are fighting for diversity for whom is more diverse than our race? With our people of brown hair and blue eyes and blonde hair and brown eyes and black hair and blue eyes and so on, opposed to the other races who only differ through their shade of pigment all having black hair and brown eyes!


I only meant that I am NOT a skinhead, I'm white, and I get up at 430 am 6 days a week to go to work. That, to me, is the working class element. I'm not a white supremecist. In fact, if I was, it would be very hard for me to go to work every day since 90% of the people I work with are black.

Grimr
Sunday, August 17th, 2003, 03:54 PM
I'm white, and I get up at 430 am 6 days a week to go to work.



I'm not a white supremecist. In fact, if I was, it would be very hard for me to go to work every day since 90% of the people I work with are black.

I simply divulge from this that you are working in a Job bellow yourself and you need to look into the facts of history and science to come to terms with white supremacy.

Ewergrin
Sunday, August 17th, 2003, 04:27 PM
I simply divulge from this that you are working in a Job bellow yourself and you need to look into the facts of history and science to come to terms with white supremacy.

As far as working in a job that is below myself, I am going to agree with you somewhat. I have never said what it is that I do for a living, but I can assure you that I do not work on par with such people, but rather above them and am in charge of them. In fact, the entire reason they even have a job where I work is to basically be at my beg and call and do what I want them to do and do the work that I do not want to do.

What facts of history and science would you have me be aware of to comes into terms with white supremecy?


edit: perhaps there is some confusion pertaining to my statement that "I am not a white supremecist." I am aware of my history and of my ancestry and of white contributions to this world. I am aware that we are the greatest people on this planet and that we are above all else. By white supremecist, I merely refer to the typical skinhead mentality, which as I stated before, I am not.

cosmocreator
Sunday, August 17th, 2003, 09:44 PM
We should produce the ideas that all whites are equal


But we are not.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Saturday, January 3rd, 2004, 07:11 AM
I like anything--ANYTHING--that scares Jews and makes them whine for "security".

berserkergrrl
Tuesday, April 27th, 2004, 10:20 PM
Does anyone think it matter what "type" of WN you are? Years ago my bf was very "militant" as a Skin but now for various reasons he is still WP but not as vocal,and while I have my beliefs and stand up for them I do not eat,sleep and breathe "the movement" as others do,but does that make me less of a WN than others? Just cause I choose to have other interests and don't go around screaming about jews and niggers all the time? :smt017

Allenson
Wednesday, April 28th, 2004, 10:40 PM
Does anyone think it matter what "type" of WN you are? Years ago my bf was very "militant" as a Skin but now for various reasons he is still WP but not as vocal,and while I have my beliefs and stand up for them I do not eat,sleep and breathe "the movement" as others do,but does that make me less of a WN than others? Just cause I choose to have other interests and don't go around screaming about jews and niggers all the time? :smt017



I suppose it matters in that some are very informed and well-read and others are...well, sort of blind and "closed-minded". Of course, a working definition of a "white nationalist" might be handy as well.

There's no need to go around "screaming about Jews and niggers all the time" (although the mental image I just conjured of someone doing that while running down the street was quite humorous :smt005 ). I don't have a ton of respect for people like this other than I somewhat admire them for 'speaking their minds' in this PC age and running the risk of being socially ostracized.

It's obvious that Jews and Blacks have their 'issues' and that in many respects, our folk and these other two have different paths to follow--but carrying on about them isn't going to get 'us' very far. Instead, I chose to look inward, at my own heritage, my own present and my own future. I like to 'celebrate' what I see as healthy and good about being a NW Euro-derived American but yet, I'm not averse to looking at our faults as well. According to some of these WN, we have no faults and all the evils are because of the 'you-know-whos'-- but we've got our own issues to reconcile as well as our positives to cherish--and it is here where I focus.

A healthy & moderate approach is what I strive for.

I'm sure they'd call me a pussy or something on the VNN forum... :smt005

WarMaiden
Wednesday, April 28th, 2004, 11:25 PM
I was a skinhead for 10 yrs, i certainly was never stupid or whatever labels folk seem to plaster all over the majority of Skinheads, i am a Pagan Racialist and suuport WN and NS kin alike!

Hails~

Ewergrin
Wednesday, April 28th, 2004, 11:33 PM
Does anyone think it matter what "type" of WN you are? Years ago my bf was very "militant" as a Skin but now for various reasons he is still WP but not as vocal,and while I have my beliefs and stand up for them I do not eat,sleep and breathe "the movement" as others do,but does that make me less of a WN than others? Just cause I choose to have other interests and don't go around screaming about jews and niggers all the time? :smt017



I suppose it matters in that some are very informed and well-read and others are...well, sort of blind and "closed-minded". Of course, a working definition of a "white nationalist" might be handy as well.

There's no need to go around "screaming about Jews and niggers all the time" (although the mental image I just conjured of someone doing that while running down the street was quite humorous :smt005 ). I don't have a ton of respect for people like this other than I somewhat admire them for 'speaking their minds' in this PC age and running the risk of being socially ostracized.

It's obvious that Jews and Blacks have their 'issues' and that in many respects, our folk and these other two have different paths to follow--but carrying on about them isn't going to get 'us' very far. Instead, I chose to look inward, at my own heritage, my own present and my own future. I like to 'celebrate' what I see as healthy and good about being a NW Euro-derived American but yet, I'm not averse to looking at our faults as well. According to some of these WN, we have no faults and all the evils are because of the 'you-know-whos'-- but we've got our own issues to reconcile as well as our positives to cherish--and it is here where I focus.

A healthy & moderate approach is what I strive for.

I'm sure they'd call me a pussy or something on the VNN forum... :smt005


Excellent post, Dalonord. :thumbsup
I agree wholeheartedly. You usually have the exact same opinion that I do on most issues, my fellow heathen. :)
I too choose to look inward, and as I have said in another post, I'd rather not focus on how bad everyone else is, and instead prefer to focus on issues that involve my folk, as well as celebrating my heritage and striving to live a life that is in compliance with my ethnic and cultural history. I want to focus on teaching my family to hold the same values that I hold so that we may live at the best of our means, which is to sow the seeds of hard work, honesty, integrity, love, compassion, morality, and very importantly: ethnic and cultural pride. From those seeds, a harvest shall be reaped, and sowed again, and we shall reap these harvests until the end of time, and even though the faces may change some over the seasons of my families lives, the end result shall always remain the same.

ogenoct
Tuesday, September 7th, 2004, 04:48 PM
A forum threatened to kick me out because I said that all skinheads are white niggers that belong in a concentration camp. I understand that this comment might be shocking to some, but not when one looks at the debasing comments that the baldies themselves make on this forum. I really would not mind one bit if I get booted from it, as there is hardly any kind of discussion going on that reaches a level above what I chatted about in kindergarten (and that was a lot!). It seems that all the nutzis on it are free to insult anybody who criticizes their beloved "Führer," but when one criticizes their narrow-mindedness in their own language, one is threatened with expulsion. Why do these people feel the need to frequent a forum at all?

Constantin

Ewergrin
Tuesday, September 7th, 2004, 05:07 PM
All skinheads are trash. Think of it as a compliment. ;)

Grimr
Tuesday, September 7th, 2004, 05:27 PM
Skinheads are mainly white proletarians, I would have thought that you would of liked them Ogenoct.

Evolved
Tuesday, September 7th, 2004, 06:08 PM
They don't work for the cause of Socialism, only to pay for boots, beers and broads. :P

Pedro
Tuesday, September 7th, 2004, 10:35 PM
Skinheads are a urban tribe, not a ideology.

There are any skinheads NS or whiteproletarians or somenting else in Spain, but they are not many. The majority are skinheads only to be the "radikal guy" of the quarter. They drink, they are dominated of the football and they forgott their ideas as they are 20-25 as the family and work questions are more important than the group.

Normally a skinhead is for the NS the same as a Punk for the anarkism.

Any people in the village, hate the arabs, they are not skins but they are fast the same. They are in the tabern to drink much and they insult the arabs and sometimes hit anyone. Later they go to fuck whith any black dominican or easteuropean whore in the road.
Today I saw, any arab launch a rock against the window of one of them and we have always the same problems. The people are against the xenophobs. I, too. I hate him, but I dont say this. They are 5 or 6, they are always the bests and the more strong, the more intelligent, the more radikal, buf...

They are asozial and I know any arabs and they are no bad people. One of the arabs, sleep on the street, in a place besides of their work. That's pity, their boss is a fucking enslaver. The arab people hate us, and willl fuck with our women because in their mentality, to fuck with a european woman is to fuck us, a revenge. But I can that understand, they are enslaved, they have to work in the field or in the constructions and this group of the village insult and hit him because they fuck more whith the girls of the village.

That's normal, they are only in the tabern. They fuck whith whores. They make always problems whith the police and they work nothing or nothing firm, only games and riots and problems and violence. And the people is against the violence, and they are not seen as the defenders of our identity, they are seen as the enemys of the peace and the armony.

And the people hate the nazis, because the people think that they are the nazis. The racists and the xenophobs are they soon.


I am against the presence of the arabs, but I can not accept this ill-treatment.

And I am better in a conversation whith an arab and know about other lands, costums and peoples as in a conversation whith any of those idiots whith infect of alcohol breath. They are not skins, but I think many skins are the same as this guys. In our decadent Europe, there are many inmigrants whith education and too many european uneducated youngs.

That's a problem.

ogenoct
Wednesday, September 8th, 2004, 01:23 PM
And I am better in a conversation whith an arab and know about other lands, costums and peoples as in a conversation whith any of those idiots whith infect of alcohol breath.
I feel the same way. Most skinheads would not know where their own country is located on a world map.

Constantin

Tommy Vercetti
Wednesday, September 8th, 2004, 10:59 PM
Skinheads are counterforce to all sorts of ethno gangs who terrorize streets and other public places, and their small number taken into account I think they are doing good job.Sure they dring booze and make noise but so what

Grimr
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 06:39 PM
Eventually the entire White racialist movement will unify into one genus, that genus would most probably be Skinhead orientated.

Ewergrin
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 06:44 PM
Eventually the entire White racialist movement will unify into one genus, that genus would most probably be Skinhead orientated.


How do you figure? If this happens, than I shall surely abandon it.

Prussian
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 06:53 PM
How do you figure? If this happens, than I shall surely abandon it.As will I, though I doubt the fact that a sub-culture without any political program or understanding of it for that matter will somehow unify anything of worth.

Grimr
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 06:55 PM
How do you figure? If this happens, than I shall surely abandon it.

Skinheads are the most unified and recognised, other racist cells are composed of a few, unknown, unimportant men, the simple truth of the matter is; we will become Skinheads and we will like it...

Siegfried
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 06:55 PM
Eventually the entire White racialist movement will unify into one genus, that genus would most probably be Skinhead orientated.

Nah, I don't think so. Skinheads are important for the Movement; their interest in WP music, WW2-related items, etc generates funds for our organisations (like the National Alliance (http://www.natall.com) uses Resistance Records (http://resistance.com/catalog/) to increase capital) and opens up possibilities for pro-White subcultures. In addition they serve the radicalisation of the White youth. Nevertheless, I think the whole movement is doomed to fail if it becomes overtly skinhead oriented; from what I have seen, too many skinheads are too focused on negativity and the expression of frustration and alienation. Too many of them lack a positive ideology, too many of them are too reactionary. Because of that, it's much more likely that this subculture is either integrated into a larger pro-White corpus or perhaps even discarded, than that it becomes the principal formative force of the movement.

Awar
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 06:58 PM
Skinheads are a bunch of supressed homosexuals.
Who the hell needs to dress-up to fight for a cause?

Grimr
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 06:59 PM
Nah, I don't think so. Skinheads are important for the Movement; their interest in WP music, WW2-related items, etc generates funds for our organisations (like the National Alliance (http://www.natall.com) uses Resistance Records (http://resistance.com/catalog/) to increase capital) and opens up possibilities for pro-White subcultures. In addition they serve the radicalisation of the White youth. Nevertheless, I think the whole movement is doomed to fail if it becomes overtly skinhead oriented; from what I have seen, too many skinheads are too focused on negativity and the expression of frustration and alienation.

They generate funds as you have admitted, they march the streets, they pass on our ideals, they help other organisations! They are the soul of the movement and those that do not except this will simply perish.

Grimr
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 07:02 PM
Skinheads are a bunch of supressed homosexuals.
Who the hell needs to dress-up to fight for a cause?

Soldiers, Priests, Hare Krishna…

Prussian
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 07:09 PM
They generate funds as you have admitted, they march the streets, they pass on our ideals, they help other organisations! They are the soul of the movement and those that do not except this will simply perish.To the contrary negative reflections through a pseudo-expression of apparent representation are not the soul of the movement more so it is the decadent & degenerative elements we must avoid, the fact of the matter is the concerntration is to invoke nationalist feelings within most progressive elements of our society within a cultural/racial construct of the concept known as state, rather we want to influence lets say middle class families to become a core nucleus of the movement at large not a pack of disorganised rebellious rabble, the best they do is create negative stereotypes through their behavior and some funds through purchasing some CD's, hardly the creators of policy one would think.

Grimr
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 07:15 PM
To the contrary negative reflections through a pseudo-expression of apparent representation are not the soul of the movement more so it is the decadent & degenerative elements we must avoid, the fact of the matter is the concerntration is to invoke nationalist feelings within most progressive elements of our society within a cultural/racial construct of the concept known as state, rather we want to influence lets say middle class families to become a core nucleus of the movement at large not a pack of disorganised rebellious rabble, the best they do is create negative stereotypes through their behavior and some funds through purchasing some CD's, hardly the creators of policy one would think.

Without the Skinheads we would be nothing thus they are our soul.

Ewergrin
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 07:24 PM
Without the Skinheads we would be nothing thus they are our soul.

You drift further and further from reality with every post you make on this forum.

Prussian
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 07:26 PM
Without the Skinheads we would be nothing thus they are our soul.I do not see skinheads as the leading figures of serious political establishments, seriously since the dawn of the skinhead movement what has been achieved? They are the soul of a post-modern sub-culture not the driving force of a serious political movement rather they are more a destructive element that we must overcome.

Grimr
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 08:15 PM
The Skinhead more than you think he is; he embodies struggle and struggle is the farther of all things, he reaches for a new dawn and the more you reach the more you grow.

Zyklop
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 08:20 PM
the simple truth of the matter is; we will become Skinheads and we will like it...

No, there already are fine hair restorers out on the market. A bald head nowadays is curable!

Siegfried
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 08:22 PM
The Skinhead more than you think he is; he embodies struggle and struggle is the farther of all things, he reaches for a new dawn and the more you reach the more you grow.

Enough with the archaic esoteric talk; please be a bit more specific. The average skinhead I've met is far from an enlighted warrior struggling for the New Dawn; he strikes me more as an alienated, frustrated youth involved in teenage rebellion. There are, of course, important exceptions to this rule, but your view of skinheads seems extremely idealised and unrealistic.

Prussian
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 08:22 PM
The Skinhead more than you think he is; he embodies struggle and struggle is the farther of all things, he reaches for a new dawn and the more you reach the more you grow.Yes struggling with his negative & conflicting views that amount to nothing, all men no matter their ideological stance reaches for a new dawn rather it comes down to how exactly things are applied, reaching for poorly defined goals is hardly growth in my book.

Awar
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 08:28 PM
He who speaketh in esotheric tongues, maketh an impression, even thougheth ith maketh no sense at all-eth.

Skinheads only struggle with their own repressed homosexuality and hormones( hence the dressing-up, all-male parties, displays of rage etc. )

If they are the future of the white race, I'll move to Zimbabwe.

Grimr
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 08:33 PM
Enough with the archaic esoteric talk; please be a bit more specific. The average skinhead I've met is far from an enlighted warrior struggling for the New Dawn; he strikes me more as an alienated, frustrated youth involved in teenage rebellion. There are, of course, important exceptions to this rule, but your view of skinheads seems extremely idealised and unrealistic.

And why is it that you find the alienated, frustrated youth involved in teenage rebellion so displeasing? And how are they truly segregated from my vision?


Yes struggling with his negative & conflicting views that amount to nothing, all men no matter their ideological stance reaches for a new dawn rather it comes down to how exactly things are applied, reaching for poorly defined goals is hardly growth in my book.

The answer is in the question, you define their goals through the two prinsciples of white supremacy.

People have been looking for many years to find a new way of white racialism away from the Skinheads; the National Vanguard have tried, the BNP have tried and so on however the true path lies with the Skinheads, it always has and it always will.

Spartacus74
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 08:41 PM
in a sane and traditional society skinhead would be anormal but looking to what Pedro writes of society (is anormal example of what happens also elsewere) i say that skinheads is a possible reaction.

Not the best of course because they have to understand some problems,but is normal that we have skinheads in the streets.

It would be a process of instruction for being aware some of them that the maghrebi surrounding is a problem which cames by another problem, a bigger one which is globalization.
I have good relations with traditional arabs who don't fuck whites and do not go in Taverns. They use to pray 5 times per day avoiding sex before marriage with a muslim girl and forgetting alchool completely without talking of drugs prohibitions.
They are sane and respectful in difference with rapsters and "blond blow-jobing" and hashish smokers kinds.
A part the fact that they see which is our example and we cannot contest that we are the primary inspiration for them with our vicious kind of society.
So we have to make choices and understand differences not put all in a same bowl.
And the skinheads have to follow the reason and not only "beer ,sieg heil! and fun" as they use to say

Prussian
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 08:45 PM
The answer is in the question, you define their goals through the two prinsciples of white supremacy.

People have been looking for many years to find a new way of white racialism away from the Skinheads; the National Vanguard have tried, the BNP have tried and so on however the true path lies with the Skinheads, it always has and it always will.You are one very mixed up individual if you believe that the future path lay in this apparent torch bearers, rather you can believe this as you will though these people are hardly the progressive element to applying a workable program or defined agenda within the construct of an organised party, for god's sake they don't even pocess a think tank to apply political strategy, simply because they have no true concept of it.

green nationalist
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 08:55 PM
Skinheads are a youth movement, like the Hippies or the heavy metal kids. When they grow older they need to build a career and a home for their families. I think they do important things for the movement like form a visable representation of the movement on the street.


However i do think drinking, fighting, hooliganism, vandalism is idiotic and we should use our brains and put themselves in respected positions in society rather than getting a criminal record and becoming a social reject which is what happens to many skins I know anyway.

BTW im no skin, im a grown up heavy metal kid,:D

Prussian
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 09:05 PM
BTW im no skin, im a grown up heavy metal kid,:D:rocknroll Ahhh excellent taste. :rocknroll :D

Siegfried
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 09:46 PM
And why is it that you find the alienated, frustrated youth involved in teenage rebellion so displeasing? And how are they truly segregated from my vision?

I don't find them displeasing; I actually like teenage rebellion against modern society, especially if it has a nationalist touch to it. Turning teenage rebellion into the Ideal for the movement isn't exactly progressive though; a more mature and balanced approach would be preferable, do you not agree?



People have been looking for many years to find a new way of white racialism away from the Skinheads; the National Vanguard have tried, the BNP have tried and so on however the true path lies with the Skinheads, it always has and it always will.

The BNP and the National Alliance have accomplished more than the skinhead movement.

Tommy Vercetti
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 09:56 PM
Skin Head
by Ultima Thule




Well, living it ain?t easy
In times hard as these
But a beer and a laugh for a restless soul
Equals a pint of peace
So think of Friday evening
Yeah, think of all the fun
I recall how you stood up for me
When I?d fallen to the ground

No longer am I close shaved
No skinhead look I wear
Turned into Mr. Normal
But for you I still do care
Have myself a glass or two
Raise it high, this song?s for you
Remember time is now gone
Skinhead never walks alone

In a cold wind blowing
A hare rain?s coming down
I hear they are seeking reasons
Looking for someone to hang
But for someone stupid actions
You shouldn?t all get the blame
Ignorance and prejudice
They?re acting just the same

Awar
Thursday, September 9th, 2004, 10:08 PM
Grimr, you can wrap your statement up in gold, spray it with perfume, call it some fancy name, but, guess what... it's still crap.

You're entitled to your opinion, that goes without saying, but it's still beyond me... how on earth can you say that 'skinheads are the path', when it's obvious in the LONG history of this movement, that:

1. They've achieved NOTHING.
2. They hardly have any members over 25. ( because they are a childish movement, and people eventually grow OUT of it ).

Grimr
Friday, September 10th, 2004, 04:46 PM
Name another white racist group and prove they are better than the Skinheads.

aprilness
Friday, September 10th, 2004, 06:21 PM
I've met some good Skinheads and some bad.
The National Alliance has many Skinhead members.

I LIVE here in the U.S. and have NA friends, so I would know.

Go to the NA fourms and start the anti-Skins talk
and see how many people disagree with you. You'll
have the button up suit wearing business person types,
and the young hooligan Skinhead types. Why do you think
they sell Aryan Wear combat boots with Swazis on the bottom,
braces and red laces? For the business people? HA!

For prestine perfect individuals like some of you all, I would expect
you were born the age of 55 and getting older and more
anal retentive every day.

Oskorei
Friday, September 10th, 2004, 09:04 PM
Grimr, you can wrap your statement up in gold, spray it with perfume, call it some fancy name, but, guess what... it's still crap.

You're entitled to your opinion, that goes without saying, but it's still beyond me... how on earth can you say that 'skinheads are the path', when it's obvious in the LONG history of this movement, that:

1. They've achieved NOTHING.
2. They hardly have any members over 25. ( because they are a childish movement, and people eventually grow OUT of it ).
You really back up your statements with facts...

IMO Skinheads are extremely important to any Nationalist movement.

They are a natural and healthy reaction to multiculturalism and alienation, with their strong ethos of group solidarity (fränderingen in ancient Swedish), nationalism, traditional view of women and masculinity, honour (sometimes a little perverted, but at least they defend themselves when insulted or attacked, and also their friends).

For many Nationalist youth, the Skinhead subculture is the first contact with Nationalism, and some of them evolve from there, some do not. As recruitment, and as visible presence on the streets, they are invaluable. Any movement needs different people, we need thinkers yes, but we also need fighters and supporters.

It is also fun that so many people seem to know so much about skinheads, that they are "only into drinking and heiling" and so on. Take a look at other youth-subcultures, they drink about as much and behave weird too. I think the bashing of skinheads is because they are so "close" to us, so that it becomes important to say "Im no skinhead! Im an Elitist! Im not like them at all! All they do is drink and heil! They are shit! By saying that they are shit I prove that IM not one of them!" But thats only my own psychological guesswork.

For me the Skinhead and Occult NS scene was my first contact with Nationalism, and my impression is still very positive. Some of my best friends are still Skins, and they are way beyond 25.

So yes I agree with Grimr, Skinheads are the Path and the Way :thumbsup

green nationalist
Friday, September 10th, 2004, 11:24 PM
You really back up your statements with facts...

IMO Skinheads are extremely important to any Nationalist movement.


It is also fun that so many people seem to know so much about skinheads, that they are "only into drinking and heiling" and so on. Take a look at other youth-subcultures, they drink about as much and behave weird too.
true at least they abstain ( or are supposed to abstain )from the drugs


For me the Skinhead and Occult NS scene was my first contact with Nationalism, and my impression is still very positive.
NS occult scene was my first contact too, however there is far too many queers in that circle


So yes I agree with Grimr, Skinheads are the Path and the Way :thumbsup
They are one optional path, however violence is counterproductive and they should use their heads rather than get sucked into a cycle of violence.

Awar
Saturday, September 11th, 2004, 12:54 AM
You really back up your statements with facts...

I do, don't I :P



IMO Skinheads are extremely important to any Nationalist movement.

An extremely important enemy to any nationalist movement.



They are a natural and healthy reaction to multiculturalism and alienation, with their strong ethos of group solidarity (fränderingen in ancient Swedish), nationalism, traditional view of women and masculinity, honour (sometimes a little perverted, but at least they defend themselves when insulted or attacked, and also their friends).

Natural yes, healthy no. Bacteria and viruses are natural too.
What's traditional about being a boozed-up, dressed-up lazy idiot?
What's traditional about women who don't have any contact with traditional female roles in society?




For many Nationalist youth, the Skinhead subculture is the first contact with Nationalism,

and usually the last. Not to mention the bad name they give to all nationalists.


and some of them evolve from there, some do not.

Some evolve, most do not.


As recruitment, and as visible presence on the streets, they are invaluable.

Invaluable to the enemies of European nationalism. Real enemies, not helpless Gypsy children.



Any movement needs different people, we need thinkers yes, but we also need fighters and supporters.

Good, now, if only the supporters and fighters would follow real thinkers, not follow eachother.


It is also fun that so many people seem to know so much about skinheads, that they are "only into drinking and heiling" and so on. Take a look at other youth-subcultures, they drink about as much and behave weird too.

Exactly, that's why the youth needs to change, along with those youths who belong to the Skinheads fad.



I think the bashing of skinheads is because they are so "close" to us, so that it becomes important to say "Im no skinhead! Im an Elitist! Im not like them at all! All they do is drink and heil! They are shit! By saying that they are shit I prove that IM not one of them!" But thats only my own psychological guesswork.

That's the usual defunct argument homosexuals use against homophobes.

Skinheads are a dead end of nationalism. Nothing will ever evolve from them,
there will always be a certain percentage of the youth who become skins, and then leave it all just as easily, when they grow out of it.



For me the Skinhead and Occult NS scene was my first contact with Nationalism, and my impression is still very positive. Some of my best friends are still Skins, and they are way beyond 25.
So yes I agree with Grimr, Skinheads are the Path and the Way :thumbsup

Nah. :)

TisaAnne
Saturday, September 11th, 2004, 04:54 AM
Skinheads are the Path and the Way :thumbsup Okay.... :eyes

Zyklop
Saturday, September 11th, 2004, 07:17 AM
@AWAR
Interesting words considering your haircut and quotes like this:


I'm expecting a big fight one of these days, and I'll surely be outnumbered again, so I want to take out as many as I can without inflicting serious injuries. I've already been arrested for street fights a couple of times, so it wouldn't be nice if I was again.
http://forums.skadi.net/showpost.php?p=133596&postcount=42

:oanieyes :D

In my opinion the Skinheads are just one more stagnating subculture, just like the NSBM scene or the Goths. Skinheads are the reason why, at least in Germany, there is no movement but a scene instead with all what comes along: dresscode, music, partying etc. This is totally uninviting to most people who otherwise would gladly work for a nationalist or racialist cause. The money which is spent by Skinheads (or other subcultures) for music, boots or tattoos could also be donated for prisoner support or legal aid where it is needed much more.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Saturday, September 11th, 2004, 07:52 AM
In America shaving one's head is a sign of rebellion, no more. Every Mexican gang-banger shaves his head, let alone any White guy who wants to score with a chick.

The history of National Socialism must be kept in perspective. The Nazis were actually a diverse group. For instance, Viktor Schauberger and Dr. Rudolf Steiner would today be considered "Greens" while the Rom and the Brownshirt-types definately are the intellectual fathers of the Skinheads. Here we have the Alpha and Omega coming out of the larger NS movement. Good can come of both if each is utilized properly. Muscle in the street is necessary and an asset of the young. Intellect comes with reflection and time so the two are not mutually exclusive.

Awar
Saturday, September 11th, 2004, 09:31 AM
@AWAR
Interesting words considering your haircut and quotes like this:
http://forums.skadi.net/showpost.php?p=133596&postcount=42
:oanieyes :D

My haircut... :D It's my way of expressing my baldness :D

I know really well that violence doesn't lead to anything. Especially not petty violence.

For example, the skinheads in Serbia managed to kill a Gypsy kid.
The kid was from a more well-adjusted Gypsy family, and it went to buy some beverages. A group of Skinheads beat him to death.

I'm sure it takes a group of real Aryan knights to beat-up a defenseless child.:oanieyes

The result of this was added pressure from international authorities, which lead to more lenience towards all Gypsies, as they got a special status, as if they were an endangered species or something.

That's not the only problem: There never was much interaction between Serbs and Gypsies. Both groups always kept to themselves, and Gypsies, although a foreign body, never represented a big problem. Sporadic thefts and few incidents over the last decades doesn't count as a big problem.

On the other hand, the Albanians have always been a big problem here.
Do you think the Skinheads ever did something about that? Of course they didn't. On the internet, they refer to Albanians as non-whites, but, it's no surprise they couldn't tell the average Albanian from an average Serb in a big city... if their life depended on it.

Here are some pictures of ethnic Albanians and Serbs:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/kosovo/art/nsynp.jpg

http://www.vracar.ds.org.yu/omladina/izlopasa.jpg

Where's the big difference? Who's white and who's non-white?

I agree that Albanians play a destructive anti-European role now, but
talking about race is ridiculous.


The only time I've ever heard of skinheads doing anything against Albanians in Serbia was recently, when a group of Skinheads wrecked some bakeries which they thought belonged to Albanians.

They thought, but they were mistaken. The Bakeries actually belonged to
Gorans, a small ethnicity from Kosovo which although Muslim is and was always loyal to the Serbs.

The Skinheads here don't even understand the complex matters regarding Serbian nationalism, they are just a blind force of marginal strength, doing much more harm than good. The Skinhead subculture is also a foreign import for us, and it shouldn't exist here, as it destroys our own heritage.





In my opinion the Skinheads are just one more stagnating subculture, just like the NSBM scene or the Goths. Skinheads are the reason why, at least in Germany, there is no movement but a scene instead with all what comes along: dresscode, music, partying etc. This is totally uninviting to most people who otherwise would gladly work for a nationalist or racialist cause. The money which is spent by Skinheads (or other subcultures) for music, boots or tattoos could also be donated for prisoner support or legal aid where it is needed much more.Agreed absolutely.

Oskorei
Saturday, September 11th, 2004, 09:52 AM
NS occult scene was my first contact too, however there is far too many queers in that circle


They are one optional path, however violence is counterproductive and they should use their heads rather than get sucked into a cycle of violence.
True, the amount of paedophiles and queers in the Occult NS milieu is frigthening. However, it is my impression that this goes for the Occult milieu as a whole, and not the Occult NS as such.

Partially true, if it were not for the existance of a section of Nationalists who are prepared to use violence, the immigrants and anti-racists would beat us up every time we tried to do anything. Wasnt it Hitler who said something about controlling the streets, and with a larger amount of Skinheads in any city, it is possible to wear Nationalist clothes, demonstrate, and to show the general population that we exist and that it is safe to sympathize with us. The general population normally respects strength and disrespects weakness, and being beaten up by anti-racists wouldnt get us anywhere.

Oskorei
Saturday, September 11th, 2004, 09:53 AM
Okay.... :eyes

You are one evil person... ;)

war
Saturday, September 11th, 2004, 11:56 AM
There are many so called (self called) NS-Skins who act much more than punks (alcoholism and dirty clothes for example) then true National Socialist, but not all Skinheads are like this trash and therefore not all skinheads are trash.

Polaris
Sunday, September 12th, 2004, 02:46 AM
Too agreeable. Skinheads have their mishappens in the bunch, but other than that they are great supporters.

Abby Normal
Sunday, September 12th, 2004, 06:27 AM
Skinheads are a urban tribe, not a ideology.The above statement accurately summarizes the skinhead 'movement' and conveys the degree to which they should be relevant to those working toward any cause.

Evidence points toward this assertion:

SHARP (Skinheads Against Racial Prejudice) (http://www.angelfire.com/yt/sharptor/)
Neither Red or Racist (http://www.skinheadnation.com/sharpskinheads.htm)

Krampus
Sunday, September 12th, 2004, 07:28 PM
I think the racial skinhead scene has been dead for years now. I'm not sure what people saw in it to begin with. The music was garbage and the people for the most part were undisciplined. Perhaps the ironic part is that most skinhead ideology and behavior isn't so much National Socialist as it is plainly Anarchist.

Zyklop
Sunday, September 12th, 2004, 07:55 PM
This tattoo says a lot about the tact which many Skinheads display in regards to National-Socialism...

http://hosting.skadi.net/tattooskins/Tattoos/tattoos_3/Tattoo_039.jpg

Awar
Sunday, September 12th, 2004, 08:06 PM
Heil Nitler!
Great font there :rotfl

Zyklop
Sunday, September 12th, 2004, 08:12 PM
I didn´t even notice this at the first look: how cool is it to have Hitler´s signature tattooed?
http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/criminal_mind/scams/hitler_diaries/11-2-Hitlers-signature-auth.jpg

rusalka
Sunday, September 12th, 2004, 08:20 PM
I didn´t even notice this at the first look: how cool is it to have Hitler´s signature tattooed?

Very.. creative. Especially that bit about drinking beer with Hitler. A formidable ideological stand.

Vlad Cletus
Sunday, September 12th, 2004, 08:55 PM
You won't really get anywhere by shouting out racial-slurs, or assaulting minorities.

Speech, and intellect is preferred over violence.

Awar
Monday, September 13th, 2004, 12:44 AM
Very.. creative. Especially that bit about drinking beer with Hitler. A formidable ideological stand.

Ah, but their empty, "jus' hangin' out" sort of look in their faces, and the skinhead's hand gently embracing Hitler.
Are they bored together, or, is the skinhead making his move?

rusalka
Monday, September 13th, 2004, 12:56 AM
Ah, but their empty, "jus' hangin' out" sort of look in their faces, and the skinhead's hand gently embracing Hitler.
Are they bored together, or, is the skinhead making his move?
I think it's a pass, really. :D

Spartacus74
Monday, September 13th, 2004, 08:10 AM
The problem is not the way to dress, by the way to be a Skinhead or a Blackmetaller or a MOd isn't the point.

The point is what some has in the mind and how he uses the brain, if some is a militant or at least a person intellectually involved in an Idea, is ok, and no matter how he dresses.

If some uses an idea of politics or a spiritual background for being an idiotic asocial is a bad stuff.

That's simple.

My item is that nationalists and NS groups has to fight for a new men and for a better society and for improving a future for our heritage, is they are in line with theese purposes is OK. If they act in totally opposite way despite of what they claim to be, is wrong and they damage worst than "Autonomen".

green nationalist
Tuesday, September 14th, 2004, 02:00 PM
Ah, but their empty, "jus' hangin' out" sort of look in their faces, and the skinhead's hand gently embracing Hitler.
Are they bored together, or, is the skinhead making his move?
He must be one of those gay Skins! GASH

Übersoldat
Tuesday, September 14th, 2004, 05:51 PM
Nazi-Skinhead movement was an effort to create a sub-culture opposite to popular sub-culture propagated by mass media. The major misfortune of this attempt was the lack of independent mass-media to propagate suitable values that goes with this sub-culture.
Its easy to teach youth to shave their heads and to weir swastika on their jackets but it's much harder to change their mind-set. So as the result we have just another subcultural group, in many cases not much different from Punks, Hippies, Goths ect.

Racialist moment needs to create an anti-subculture (in other words a culture), and not just another subculture. Its harder to teach kids to resist to adolescent impulse to act and appear differently from their parents.
During my adolescent years I also used to weir boots and to keep my haircut on zero, but noticing drunken hooligan trash without any constructive idea or ideology does the same I felt a strong urge to adopt more conservative looks. I'm even planing to remove my tattoos.

Grimr
Tuesday, September 14th, 2004, 06:00 PM
You all judge the Skinhead occult by it's past it appears as if most of you have incapacity to see capacity! The past of the Skinhead movement is a perfect building block for something better, all it takes is education, all we as the intellectual or at least free thinking racialists need to do is teach these people.

Telling such Skinhead youth about basic biological and racial sciences, telling them about the greatness of the white race in the past and how we need to make sure that it is reflected in the future will mould young hooligans into leaders, into true revolutionaries!

Prussian
Tuesday, September 14th, 2004, 06:09 PM
You all judge the Skinhead occult by it's past it appears as if most of you have incapacity to see capacity! The past of the Skinhead movement is a perfect building block for something better, all it takes is education, all we as the intellectual or at least free thinking racialists need to do is teach these people.

Telling such Skinhead youth about basic biological and racial sciences, telling them about the greatness of the white race in the past and how we need to make sure that it is reflected in the future will mould young hooligans into leaders, into true revolutionaries!It is hardly a building block, something to build upon requires solid foundations and in the political sense this would indicate the fact that such a foundation would require a firm intellectual base, your rather simplistic analysis of the situation is not so easily solved, rather it is not the skinheads we must mold but rather it is young individuals we must mold in order to not become the skinheads but well balanced young adults capable of something more then themselves, to serve a greater entity far more reaching then their own existence and this requires discipline and moral principle.

Grimr
Tuesday, September 14th, 2004, 06:24 PM
It is hardly a building block, something to build upon requires solid foundations and in the political sense this would indicate the fact that such a foundation would require a firm intellectual base,

No it needs an anti-intellectual base, we have extreme! Totally extreme ideals! That are totally abhorred by the rest of the western civilisation, if we have an intellectual base then you may as well simply urinate on the heads of the future generation! We need essentially hooligans, we need Mengeles, we need the hardest most dogmatic, evil people we can find! That is the best foundation not some BNP man who wears a suit and has a fondness for Sikhs and Jews!


your rather simplistic analysis of the situation

It is the simple ideas that move the world!


is not so easily solved, rather it is not the skinheads we must mould but rather it is young individuals we must mould in order to not become the skinheads

The Skinhead occult is not a sub-culture! It is a recurring feature of white supremacist civilisation! Look at the brown shirts, the Bezerkers, the centurions, the Teutonic knights, Egyptian warriors! Look at these expressions of Aryan civilisation these are our modern day Skinheads.


but well balanced young adults capable of something more then themselves, to serve a greater entity for more reaching then their own existence and this requires discipline and moral principle.

Discipline and moral principle? Is that how we conquered the Great Plains? Is that how the Vikings conquered Europe? Is that how we conquered space? No! We need our activists to be first and foremost brutal and then secondly educated this is how we will win!

Prussian
Tuesday, September 14th, 2004, 06:40 PM
No it needs an anti-intellectual base, we have extreme! Totally extreme ideals! That are totally abhorred by the rest of the western civilisation, if we have an intellectual base then you may as well simply urinate on the heads of the future generation! We need essentially hooligans, we need Mengeles, we need the hardest most dogmatic, evil people we can find! That is the best foundation not some BNP man who wears a suit and has a fondness for Sikhs and Jews!Make your mind up.....
You all judge the Skinhead occult by it's past it appears as if most of you have incapacity to see capacity! The past of the Skinhead movement is a perfect building block for something better, all it takes is education, all we as the intellectual or at least free thinking racialists need to do is teach these people.Now which one is it?? Pro-Intellectual or anti-intellectual? I believe you are not quite sure yourself, hooligans emphasis chaos and anarchy not organisation of a political mainstream that is needed.
It is the simple ideas that move the world!Then the works of such greats as Aristotle, Plato & many others that shaped the word view were simplisitic in structure? I believe not

The Skinhead occult is not a sub-culture! It is a recurring feature of white supremacist civilisation! Look at the brown shirts, the Bezerkers, the centurions, the Teutonic knights, Egyptian warriors! Look at these expressions of Aryan civilisation these are our modern day Skinheads.It is a sub-culture first and foremost, it is not a politically organised rather it is disorganised the mentions you made of past groups throughout history had some form of political organisation about them they were not disorganised rabble, there is a major difference.

Discipline and moral principle? Is that how we conquered the Great Plains? Is that how the Vikings conquered Europe? Is that how we conquered space? No! We need our activists to be first and foremost brutal and then secondly educated this is how we will win!No offense but have you been sniffing glue or something of the like? your ramblings are absurd notions of a mindset I cannot possibly understand, there is no rational justification to it.

Oskorei
Tuesday, September 14th, 2004, 07:02 PM
Make your mind up.....Now which one is it?? Pro-Intellectual or anti-intellectual? I believe you are not quite sure yourself, hooligans emphasis chaos and anarchy not organisation of a political mainstream that is needed.
We need to take the vital emotions alive in the prolet-aryan stratas of society (including skinheads) and give them direction. Order out of chaos cannot be born if there is no chaos to begin with, philosophically speaking.

Most of western society, especially the mainstream, today is spiritually "dead", and I agree with Grimr when he traces at least some vitality in the skinhead subculture. The future SA will probably be born from its ranks.

Grimr
Tuesday, September 14th, 2004, 07:13 PM
Make your mind up.....Now which one is it?? Pro-Intellectual or anti-intellectual?

The base is anti-intellectual so as not to develop ideas of it's own however people like us, who have diverse ideas on subjects of race and national policy are the intellectual cell that feeds the anti-intellectual Skinheads.


I believe you are not quite sure yourself, hooligans emphasis chaos and anarchy not organisation of a political mainstream

Chaos and anarchy are greater than the political mainstream so long as the intellectual cell within our structure is maintained

Prussian
Tuesday, September 14th, 2004, 07:24 PM
We need to take the vital emotions alive in the prolet-aryan stratas of society (including skinheads) and give them direction. Order out of chaos cannot be born if there is no chaos to begin with, philosophically speaking.The concept of the proletarian class within society is a Marxist notion born from his mind's expression of a pseudo-class simply because class structure incorporates workers of differing classes there is no one "working class", the proletarian concept is a defunct one and a porrly defined one at that. Each has there role within the class structure and each has their job in turn each is a worker at varying levels of society, from the street sweeper to the factory Head excutive to the Leader of a state.

Chaos is reflective of disillusioned channels within a society, of course chaos is needed but direction is need to create order out of the chaos, the skinhead sub-culture is not representative of a dericted order rather it thrives on chaos alone, chaos acts as a medium to creating order but without organised direction there is purely chaos and nothingness is the result.

Most of western society, especially the mainstream, today is spiritually "dead", and I agree with Grimr when he traces at least some vitality in the skinhead subculture. The future SA will probably be born from its ranks.There is no question of apparent "vitality" as you put in it in the sub-cultural sphere however this without direction gives way to nothing and forms the basis of energy lacking a focused objective. The future SA is purely speculation rather what comes from future progessions will be known there and then, as the situation evolves so to will the organised bodies that are reflective of this situation, all we can do is wait and see.


The base is anti-intellectual so as not to develop ideas of it's own however people like us, who have diverse ideas on subjects of race and national policy are the intellectual cell that feeds the anti-intellectual Skinheads.If the base is anti-intellectual it therefore rejects any notion of intellectual intervention or direction from the likes of "us" as you put it, the basis you rescribe serves no purpose and in the end is self-destructive. The Bolsheviks were anti-intellectual & therefore purged Russia's intellectual base, aniti signifies opposition rather then the union you suggest.

Chaos and anarchy are greater than the political mainstream so long as the intellectual cell within our structure is maintainedTo contrary chaos & anarchy are sometimes a gateway as a medium to the political mainstream, the mainstream is to create order out of controlling the elements of chaos and anarchy thus from this the greater element in such as situation is the mainstream putting control measures upon chaos & anarchy, the mainstream is the controlling factor at hand & thus the greater entity here.

Imperator X
Wednesday, September 15th, 2004, 03:44 AM
Just look at the AB prison gang, they sell drugs with Mexican mafia people who then turn and sell drugs to whites. That isn't constructive it is destructive. Many mexicans are not white Spaniards, but Amerindians.

Oskorei
Wednesday, September 15th, 2004, 10:24 AM
The concept of the proletarian class within society is a Marxist notion born from his mind's expression of a pseudo-class simply because class structure incorporates workers of differing classes there is no one "working class", the proletarian concept is a defunct one and a porrly defined one at that. Each has there role within the class structure and each has their job in turn each is a worker at varying levels of society, from the street sweeper to the factory Head excutive to the Leader of a state..
No way, Jose. In the Manifesto Marx defined the proletarians as those who "had nothing to loose except their chains", and therefore were potentially more revolutionary than other social strata . This is still a valid analysis (even though Id like to add that they get even more revolutionary if they HAD something to loose in the beginning, and lost it). Many social strata in society do work for a living, but many do not create surplus-value (the supervising middle-classes partake in the sharing of surplus-value) and many complement their income by owning stock (and hence being part capitalist, part worker). These are better defined as middle-strata.

You sound like a Situationist in your analysis that "we are all proletarians because we all work".


The future SA is purely speculation rather what comes from future progessions will be known there and then, as the situation evolves so to will the organised bodies that are reflective of this situation, all we can do is wait and see.
Not only are you a Situationist, I am also beginning to suspect that you are a "sit-and-wait"-Determinist. You are hence combining the worst parts of the Marxist tradition in a novel way ;)


Just look at the AB prison gang, they sell drugs with Mexican mafia people who then turn and sell drugs to whites. That isn't constructive it is destructive. Many mexicans are not white Spaniards, but Amerindians.
If it wasnt for the AB, more Whites in American prisons would probably be sodomized. There is a time for being an idealist, but once you end up in prison I think that its best for your health to become a realist.

Prussian
Wednesday, September 15th, 2004, 10:41 AM
No way, Jose. In the Manifesto Marx defined the proletarians as those who "had nothing to loose except their chains", and therefore were potentially more revolutionary than other social strata . This is still a valid analysis (even though Id like to add that they get even more revolutionary if they HAD something to loose in the beginning, and lost it). Many social strata in society do work for a living, but many do not create surplus-value (the supervising middle-classes partake in the sharing of surplus-value) and many complement their income by owning stock (and hence being part capitalist, part worker). These are better defined as middle-strata.

You sound like a Situationist in your analysis that "we are all proletarians because we all work".To the contrary I do not believe in the proletarian as it is projection of Marx's pseudo beliefs upon the class structure, rather there are definite and differing kinds of work each individual must apply themselves too depending on their inherent abilities & as to how they can impact upon society given their talents &/or abilities, if you assume the fact that I stated ""we are all proletarians because we all work" then you greatly misunderstood my statement as I made no so expression of this kind, because the proletarian is a false notion with no true basis, the work's of Marx are merely reflections on how he himself perceives society to be and to a greater extent how he wishes for it to evolve in his revolutionary notions lead by a mythical class.

Not only are you a Situationist, I am also beginning to suspect that you are a "sit-and-wait"-Determinist. You are hence combining the worst parts of the Marxist tradition in a novel way ;)Interesting terminology you us to gave a false analysis that indicates your ability to misinterprete statements made by myself, believe what you may as it makes no difference rather your arguement is bound by the theories of Marx himself, where as I reject Marx's view on society & see it as a false one, you tend to embrace it with your Marxist rhetoric & notions of the proletarian struggle.


We need to take the vital emotions alive in the prolet-aryan stratas of society (including skinheads) and give them direction. Order out of chaos cannot be born if there is no chaos to begin with, philosophically speaking.We should aspire to connect on all stratas of our society, to appeal to one alone is an impotent stance.

Oskorei
Wednesday, September 15th, 2004, 11:18 AM
To the contrary I do not believe in the proletarian as it is projection of Marx's pseudo beliefs upon the class structure, rather there are definite and differing kinds of work each individual must apply themselves too depending on their inherent abilities & as to how they can impact upon society given their talents &/or abilities, if you assume the fact that I stated ""we are all proletarians because we all work" then you greatly misunderstood my statement as I made no so expression of this kind, because the proletarian is a false notion with no true basis, the work's of Marx are merely reflections on how he himself perceives society to be and to a greater extent how he wishes for it to evolve in his revolutionary notions lead by a mythical class..
Sorry, but you mix up Marx the political economist, and Marx the communist politician. The political economy of Marx is still superior to any other (and if you have a problem with him being Jewish, let me add that most of his theories are built upon the analysis of the classical British economists, like Ricardo and Smith).

I might add that the proletarian class is not a false notion, it is a scientific concept.

I might also add that your comment about "there are different types of work and we shall all do the work that we are most suitable for" is called "division of labor" in the Marxist school. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the existence of a proletarian class, or the existence of exploitation of this same class. If you have a problem with me or Marx saying that Capitalist society is built upon the exploitation of the workers by the capitalists, then you might very easily find prominent National Socialists saying the exact same thing.



Interesting terminology you us to gave a false analysis that indicates your ability to misinterprete statements made by myself, believe what you may as it makes no difference rather your arguement is bound by the theories of Marx himself, where as I reject Marx's view on society & see it as a false one, you tend to embrace it with your Marxist rhetoric & notions of the proletarian struggle.
Calling you a situationist determinist was intended as a joke, but there was some truth in it. You did say that "we can just wait and see what happens" and this is determinism in its core.

A question: how much of Marx' theories about class and economy have you read? And exactly what in Marx' theories is it that you reject?

I am not exactly a Marxist, (I consider myself Fasco-Anarchist) but I find the Marxist school of political economy to be the best in explaining how capitalism works. But maybe you have some other explanation that is better, what do I know...

Prussian
Wednesday, September 15th, 2004, 11:50 AM
Sorry, but you mix up Marx the political economist, and Marx the communist politician. The political economy of Marx is still superior to any other (and if you have a problem with him being Jewish, let me add that most of his theories are built upon the analysis of the classical British economists, like Ricardo and Smith).

I might add that the proletarian class is not a false notion, it is a scientific concept.

I might also add that your comment about "there are different types of work and we shall all do the work that we are most suitable for" is called "division of labor" in the Marxist school. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the existence of a proletarian class, or the existence of exploitation of this same class. If you have a problem with me or Marx saying that Capitalist society is built upon the exploitation of the workers by the capitalists, then you might very easily find prominent National Socialists saying the exact same thing.No I am referring to Marx the political economist, personally I find Marx to be outdated, overrated & also he twists matters to be more applicable to his own view on society, thus attempting to give his arguement a valid basis when in truth it is rather lacking.

Scientific concept? Well to a certain degree there could be some truth in this as concpet and factual basis are two differing realisations, I still maintain it is a false notion however. The proletarian view is an isolationist one at that, rather then unifying the difference among the labour force from all classes the concept alienates and closes channels to productive diversity among the labour pool therefore impacting upon the states economy, rather I feel that Marxism as idealistic as it is, is not a model to follow but to the same degree nor is capitalism.

Yes capitalism is indeed built upon the foundation of overall exploitation itself however I find the division of labour concept absurd simply because of the fact that labour is reflective of one's ability, labour cannot be measured based upon a concept of universal equality, let's say you have two individuals one a surgeon and the other a bookkeeper, both have their own skills & abilities however one cannot perform the task the other can, both have their school of expertise in their abilities, rather then being divided it is more so they are unified in the sense that they are contributing to the overall state labour pool, rather there exists workers of their respective fields that contribute to the greater entity known as the state, drawing lines among different fields of ability and in turn class creates division due to a lack of diversity among the labour pool.

Calling you a situationist determinist was intended as a joke, but there was some truth in it. You did say that "we can just wait and see what happens" and this is determinism in its core.

A question: how much of Marx' theories about class and economy have you read? And exactly what in Marx' theories is it that you reject?

I am not exactly a Marxist, (I consider myself Fasco-Anarchist) but I find the Marxist school of political economy to be the best in explaining how capitalism works. But maybe you have some other explanation that is better, what do I know..."we can just wait and see what happens" was merely a figure of speech rather I should have worded it better or expanded more in it's orientation, more so I believe that through organised progression we come to learn what decisions are best made to remain flexiable & able to cope with rapidly changing situations.

As for Marx, I own Das Kapital & the communist manifesto as reference guides, I admit Marx does give some good insight into industrial age capitalism and can be applied in a philosophical context to determine the characteristics of Information age capitalism, however I do not see Marx's view on the structuring of an economic system as progressive rather I believe such a system would hold us back in this day & age as does capitalism. As the geo-political situation changes throughout the ages as does the practice of economics and we must evolve to cater for this change or face nothingness.

Oskorei
Wednesday, September 15th, 2004, 11:59 AM
As for Marx, I own Das Kapital & the communist manifesto as reference guides, I admit Marx does give some good insight into industrial age capitalism and can be applied in a philosophical context to determine the characteristics of Information age capitalism, however I do not see Marx's view on the structuring of an economic system as progressive rather I believe such a system would hold us back in this day & age as does capitalism. As the geo-political situation changes throughout the ages as does the practice of economics and we must evolve to cater for this change or face nothingness.
Then we basically agree. As I said earlier, I find Marxist theories very good in explaining how Capitalism works, but I find the Marxist utopias less useful.

Prussian
Wednesday, September 15th, 2004, 12:03 PM
I stated this several times, but this group of intellectuals is going to need supporters, voters and fighters. And here is where the proletariat comes in.

I DO believe however, that many of the more outstanding leaders will come from the more popular classes, among them the proletarians. Just take a look at the NSDAP for examples of this.To a certain degree I can definitely agree on this as I believe the basis of support must come from both the lower & middle classes yet at the same time not only must we appeal to the former but to the industrial strata as well, rather then adopt the notion of a proletariat dominated society I feel more specifically that the state must cater for the diversity among the society and use the benefits of diverse ability to create a basis of overall unity in the realisation of each has his role as well as implementing state control measures to root out exploitation of any respective class basis.


Then we basically agree. As I said earlier, I find Marxist theories very good in explaining how Capitalism works, but I find the Marxist utopias less useful.Yes we do, Marx explains the nature of capitalism well, yes his utopian views are not practical.

Spartacus74
Thursday, September 16th, 2004, 04:37 PM
http://it.altermedia.info/images/adl122.jpgmILANO SKINHEADS i don't think they look so dumb.
http://it.altermedia.info/images/civico88.jpg
another band of Skinhead called Civic 88. If you look a the texts they are not stupid neither.
So the point is not how do some dresses but how is inside.

And those insted are the nice commie in Italy



http://www.canedabirra.altervista.org/menu/vittoria2.jpg

Irish, Flag on the back and communist insigna everywere.
I can't stand an alliance with this kind of people, they are not on our fightin' line. IN USSR maybe reds is another stuff completely a human beings and dignity.
This people is neither working class if not as the minimus necessary.
That's the reality of the society not only the miths of Nazimaoism.

AryanKrieger
Thursday, September 16th, 2004, 06:51 PM
A forum threatened to kick me out because I said that all skinheads are white niggers that belong in a concentration camp. I understand that this comment might be shocking to some, but not when one looks at the debasing comments that the baldies themselves make on this forum. I really would not mind one bit if I get booted from it, as there is hardly any kind of discussion going on that reaches a level above what I chatted about in kindergarten (and that was a lot!). It seems that all the nutzis on it are free to insult anybody who criticizes their beloved "Führer," but when one criticizes their narrow-mindedness in their own language, one is threatened with expulsion. Why do these people feel the need to frequent a forum at all?

Constantin
May I ask you how many Skinheads you have met in your life?
You dont think that you are in danger of stereotyping?
Even if you were correct[and I am not saying that you are] think of Skinheads as being the frontline shocktroops-Die Stuermtruppen that are needed to fight any war, not least a racial holy war. They are in effect our SA-Stuermabteilung.

Cosmin
Friday, October 1st, 2004, 05:31 PM
I was a skinhead and still am so fucck you redshttp://combat18.org/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=284

Olga
Friday, October 1st, 2004, 05:40 PM
The only thing I've got to say about Skinheads is that they have good taste in clothing, that's all. :D

Prince Eugen
Friday, October 1st, 2004, 06:13 PM
I'm a skinhead too!I read literature,i love poetry,i hear classical music!It's not only me a lot of skinheads i met they intelectuals,they are desent working family people!Yes they're some trash but you can meet trash in every subculture!

Spartacus74
Friday, October 1st, 2004, 07:01 PM
I'm a skinhead too!I read literature,i love poetry,i hear classical music!It's not only me a lot of skinheads i met they intelectuals,they are desent working family people!Yes they're some trash but you can meet trash in every subculture!
INdeed is true, we have subversion sometimes in Skinhead culture but as globally seen there are many good comrades.
When i go to do the Guard of Honour in Predappio were Duce Benito Mussolini is buried my leader is a skinhead of a town near city were i live.
And he is one of the most respected comrade, i meet his friends of B&H and Hammerskins and i add that i don't agree with some kind of way to thinking.
But they are globally respected much more than usually cheatin' and chattin' people who don't achieve a pure anything!

anti-climacus
Monday, October 11th, 2004, 06:22 AM
http://it.altermedia.info/images/adl122.jpgmILANO SKINHEADS i don't think they look so dumb.
http://it.altermedia.info/images/civico88.jpg
another band of Skinhead called Civic 88. If you look a the texts they are not stupid neither.
So the point is not how do some dresses but how is inside.
Well they do not look dumb, but the tattoos on their arms look rather idiotic.

Spartacus74
Monday, October 11th, 2004, 01:23 PM
Theese are tipical skinhead's tatoo, not so different by other juvenile culture, i've not any tatoo, it's not my style but if we look at the dress code we risk to loose the substance of a person and his ideals.

That's what i think.

Today the point is another and we have to achieve a front of united plitical subjects including juvenile forces.

The alternative is isolating!

Mac Seafraidh
Saturday, December 11th, 2004, 05:29 AM
Skinheads are trash and what is needed is a banishment of them for one political party because the two party system or parliament only allows a dumb and uneducated person to be elected. A skinhead is equivalent to any stupid movement that hold rallies and creates violence. This is how George and his Jews were elected. It is quite unfair. People should have been educating themselves and maybe something could have broken ice sooner.

Some skinheads are smart, but some do not know what social group to turn to.

Glenlivet
Saturday, December 11th, 2004, 08:41 AM
The original skin head movement had nothing to do with racism per se, but it was rather a reaction from the "hard" Mods against the Hippies. There were even scooter skins.

The sub-culture was in fact also tied with that of the Rude boy's in Jamaica!

It's essentially from 60's England, and only a rougher Mod style for those who could not afford the more elegant clothes.

Wissen ist Macht
Saturday, December 11th, 2004, 03:43 PM
Well, I just found this thread, read through it and want to share my thoughts regarding this topic. :)

Basically, I am convinced that "we" have to overcome the "skinhead era" due to various reasons, the most important one being that they create the image the media needs to present us to the public. Everyone has to figure out that nothing will change as long as skinheads are shown as "the Nazis" (you may alternatively include any other term which is used to describe "us" as evil relicts from the past) in the media.
What does the public think about skinheads? The average citizen sees shaved heads, flight jackets and steelcapped boots worn in combination with more t-shirts featuring more or less idiotic slogans. What does the average citizen associate with this image which has become the synonym for "Nazi"? He or she associates with it murder, arson, violence, dullness and anti-social behaviour. These people don't care if there are intelligent people among the masses of skinheads. They see what they want to see - this not being intelligent people. To repeat it - nothing will change as long as everyone on the streets associates National Socialism with the skinhead "cult".

It is a youth subculture and as stated in previous posts made by other forum users, the vast mass of the people identifying with this subculture are in no way an enrichment for "our" movement and long-term intentions.
The only good thing which I can see in the skinhead "culture" is that it somehow seems to work like a filter. People get into the (nationalist) skinhead scene for what ever reasons and most of these people will be gone after some time. Most of them will live "normal" lives, but some grow out of their boots, their hair starts to get longer again and they eventually become the new blood we need so desperately.
It would be better though, if we could attract people using other ways.

It is a problem and will remain a problem that the whole nationalist / racialist skinhead subculture (as well as heavy metal and gothic subculture and so on) work against us at an important point: They are small, self-contained groups with their own code of behaviour, own music and so on. We need something more "mainstream" to attract the masses (don't ask me how to implement something like that...).

Regarding the Skinheads-are-the-SA-of-the-future thoughts:
I do not think so.
At first, we have to take into account that the time of paramilitary combat formations is over. We are not living in the Twenties or early Thirties anymore. In this time, the wear of uniforms was nothing special and many urban landscapes in countries all across Europe were dominated by uniform wearers. But - the times have changed. In Germany you are even forbidden by law to publicly wear uniforms to express your political opinion.
And the "modern" skinhead uniform does not only look hilarious but also does not increase the image in the public.
Secondly, what we lack to use skinhead masses as a SA of the future are leaders. The Sturmabteilungen were a paramilitary formation, lead by former army and Freikorps officers. Their members obeyed (at least most of them - thinking of Stennes :D ) the orders of their superiors and so on. Gotta try this with the standard skinhead group? Military training and getting up at 5 o' clock in the morning on Saturdays after drinking and partying. I don't think so...

Just some of mine thoughts... :D

Wissen ist Macht

Awar
Saturday, December 11th, 2004, 03:57 PM
Exactly, Wissen. :thumbsup

Wissen ist Macht
Saturday, December 11th, 2004, 04:02 PM
Ahhh.... I forgot! :D
On skinheads and national socialism - I am sure that many of those declaring themselves "NS-Skins" in these times would have been inmates of a concentration camp during the glorious twelve years - being marked as anti-socials. And regarding the tattoo maniacs: a page from the SS newspaper "Das Schwarze Korps" springs to mind which shows two tattooed concentration camp inmates commented with the subline "Too beautiful to be free" :D :D :D

Wissen ist Macht

Aistulf
Saturday, December 11th, 2004, 04:25 PM
A forum threatened to kick me out because I said that all skinheads are white niggers that belong in a concentration camp. I understand that this comment might be shocking to some, but not when one looks at the debasing comments that the baldies themselves make on this forum.
:roll



I really would not mind one bit if I get booted from it, as there is hardly any kind of discussion going on that reaches a level above what I chatted about in kindergarten (and that was a lot!). It seems that all the nutzis on it are free to insult anybody who criticizes their beloved "Führer," but when one criticizes their narrow-mindedness in their own language, one is threatened with expulsion. Why do these people feel the need to frequent a forum at all?

Constantin
So their 'Führer' is Hitler and yours is Lenin... What is your point?


As for narrow-mindedness...


YES! YES! YES! YES YES! Down with USA!!!

Constantin[Source (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=11428&highlight=ogenoct)]

Evolved
Saturday, December 11th, 2004, 05:14 PM
I think the music, clothes, drunkeness and tattoos are stupid. None of it appeals to me. I prefer family-friendly type cultural events and would like to see a moderate/progressive racialism and cultural preservationism emerge and leave this immature White Power stuff behind. I prefer European-American cultural and historical festivals (like German-American Volkfest or Polish Festival, or Renaissance Fests) where pride and ethnic-togetherness does not equal hate. Hate rock and Swastika flags are not my cup of tea.

ogenoct
Saturday, December 11th, 2004, 05:16 PM
As for narrow-mindedness...

What gives? It is the voice of reason.

Constantin

http://www.globetreter.de/bilder/chintour/s/s02,3.jpg

Phlegethon
Saturday, December 11th, 2004, 05:54 PM
I prefer European-American cultural and historical festivals (like German-American Volkfest or Polish Festival, or Renaissance Fests) where pride and ethnic-togetherness does not equal hate.
The problem is this: These festivals are all a sad joke. The only ones who do not get the joke are Americans, because they are so desperate that they'd grab every straw labelled "folkish" or "traditional" because they have been cut off from both their folk, their customs and traditions.

You all have to face it: Send a European to the U.S., let him stay there for a few years and he becomes an American i.e. a hedonistic, shallow-minded, puerile, hysterical debased creature no sane person would want to be affiliated with. Their offspring can only be American and the only route for them seems to be wearing cheap Chinese-made fantasy uniform, drinking crappy American beer and living out their skinhead gang culture.

Zyklop
Saturday, December 11th, 2004, 06:07 PM
The problem is this: These festivals are all a sad joke. Ah, come on. This Oktoberfest reenactment looks quite authentic to me :)

http://www.americanclub.org.tw/gallery/albums/oktoberfest/oktoberfest_21.sized.jpg

They even put up a picture of Munich in the background...

Phlegethon
Saturday, December 11th, 2004, 06:18 PM
Especially the Chinese women are totally authentic.

ogenoct
Saturday, December 11th, 2004, 06:20 PM
Especially the Chinese women are totally authentic.

Of course they are (just like the laughing negress). Ever been to Munich?

Constantin

Zyklop
Saturday, December 11th, 2004, 06:21 PM
Check for the details. The Negro (?) in the background seems to wear Lederhosen. A common sight at the Wiesn. Let´s hope there also is a Gundolf Köhler memorial trashcan like the one in 1980... ;)

Phlegethon
Saturday, December 11th, 2004, 06:28 PM
Well, actually the Wies'n is rather in the hand of Kiwis, Aussies, yankees and Japs. As I don't like crowds and especially not drunken multiculti crowds I haven't been to Oktoberfest for quite a few years. Did not miss it, though.

Zyklop
Saturday, December 11th, 2004, 06:36 PM
So you don´t like performing the Ententanz through puddles of puke and over the bodies of unconscious alcoholics? :-O

Zyklop
Saturday, December 11th, 2004, 06:45 PM
I haven´t been to the Wiesn since my early childhood.
Lebt denn überhaupt der alte Holzmichl noch? :scratch

Phlegethon
Saturday, December 11th, 2004, 07:02 PM
Ja, leider. Aber den kriegen wir auch noch! ;)

Aistulf
Saturday, December 11th, 2004, 07:35 PM
Ah, come on. This Oktoberfest reenactment looks quite authentic to me :)

http://www.americanclub.org.tw/gallery/albums/oktoberfest/oktoberfest_21.sized.jpg

They even put up a picture of Munich in the background...
Gah, that's disgusting.

I couldn't have ever realized, not even in my worst nightmares, that those festivals would've been celebrated like that, and by the likes of those pictured...

Spartacus74
Monday, December 13th, 2004, 01:37 PM
in theese pics you will see a demo in Rome few days ago, very nice demo in perfect order and style.
The skinhead presence was openly showed within the event.

http://www.forzanuovapicena.org/foto/048/index.html

http://www.forzanuovapicena.org/foto/048/slides/DSCF0022.JPG

Phlegethon
Monday, December 13th, 2004, 01:54 PM
Italy is special because the degree of skinhead politization exceeds that of every other country by far. (Actually, judging by numbers alone Italy has the strongest organized potential in the whole of western Europe.)

Wissen ist Macht
Monday, December 13th, 2004, 01:58 PM
in theese pics you will see a demo in Rome few days ago, very nice demo in perfect order and style.
The skinhead presence was openly showed within the event.

http://www.forzanuovapicena.org/foto/048/index.html

http://www.forzanuovapicena.org/foto/048/slides/DSCF0022.JPG

Spartacus,
how did the media react to this demonstration?
And how are skinheads generally viewed in Italy?

Spartacus74
Monday, December 13th, 2004, 02:01 PM
http://digilander.libero.it/legittimaoffesa/images/foto26.jpg


Theese guys were part of the demo of the previous picture. It seems they are a bit nuts but in reality if there is a good organization it's possible to have comrades of high level with them, or maybe a part of them.

Wissen ist Macht
Monday, December 13th, 2004, 02:11 PM
I think that their look is problematic. Ask one hundred ordinary people and more than ninety of them will tell you that they see a tatooed anti social. His worn out trousers (Domestos :D ) contribute to the overall appearance.
They waste their own potential by looking like that.

Aistulf
Monday, December 13th, 2004, 02:13 PM
Some of those skinheads look like 'terroni', but then it's Rome :P

Spartacus74
Monday, December 13th, 2004, 02:32 PM
i answer to all.

The demo of the pic was in full order but somewhat impressive for the public. But to follow the truth no media gave report to this demo. Totally censored because those kind of demo cames out only when the reds are in counterdemo with clashes and accidents.
So if there is a trouble media reports that by cause of a neofascist demo a city has been victim of disturbs if no bad event occurs no reports at all on the national level.
Of course the local media reports the event and this depends by the honesty of the printer, sometimes there is bad reputation article sometimes sostanzially normal reporting.

The skinhead movement is viewed as a strange mix of extremism and stadium hooliganism.Sometimes is true because there is a side of skins which are not completely politicized and can make unuseful troubles and mess in everyday life. But in many chases there are good persons quite in order with minds and ideals.

If a skinhead dress as is done in the gig can be true that a normal person sees them as stupid and idiotic but in Italy there is also a casual style and a sportive wear style, not so different by normality. It depends how the single wants to relate, i have friends skinheads which are not so dumb in the image and serious expecially if they are not underaged.

NOwadays the skin style is more accepted because there is much redskins and sharps which are openly skinheads and this gives influence to other better accepted juvenile styles.

The "terroni" of the first pic were a delegation of Bari in south of Italy but if i look to the pics many militants of neofascist organizations are a bit "baroques" in dressing and sometimes they cames from North of Italy too.
"Terroni" style are usual more on the rightwing side than not leftwings because the national popular idea of Fascism is still alive.

Spartacus74
Monday, December 13th, 2004, 02:49 PM
anyway is true that skinheads are alkool lovers and sometimes alkoolhooligans, but this does happen if they are refused by movements of official neofascism. Let's say also that in Italy neofascism and violence was a link often realistic in past decades when skinheads were totally outside of italian culture of youngs.


i don't know if abroad skinheads are less politicized, i thought in Germany there were mainly political skinheads apart Sharps and Redskins. in Italy i saw sometimes skinheads of Germany in gigs, i've seen also scandinavian Skinheads vay NS but the bad habits of Skinheads are usually the same. Maybe in Italy there is a net of political orgs in which tehy can be formed in better way.

Spartacus74
Monday, December 13th, 2004, 02:54 PM
http://www.forzanuovapicena.org/foto/042/slides/DSCF0002.jpg


This is a pic of a newspaper about a conference of FN in Umbria, outside there are reds, so the news are reported.

http://www.forzanuovapicena.org/foto/042/slides/DSCF0009.jpg


But inside the skinheads are listening the conference.

anti-climacus
Monday, December 13th, 2004, 03:28 PM
The problem is this: These festivals are all a sad joke. The only ones who do not get the joke are Americans, because they are so desperate that they'd grab every straw labelled "folkish" or "traditional" because they have been cut off from both their folk, their customs and traditions.

You all have to face it: Send a European to the U.S., let him stay there for a few years and he becomes an American i.e. a hedonistic, shallow-minded, puerile, hysterical debased creature no sane person would want to be affiliated with. Their offspring can only be American and the only route for them seems to be wearing cheap Chinese-made fantasy uniform, drinking crappy American beer and living out their skinhead gang culture.
you obviously have not been to the polish area of chicago

Phlegethon
Monday, December 13th, 2004, 03:33 PM
i don't know if abroad skinheads are less politicized, i thought in Germany there were mainly political skinheads apart Sharps and Redskins. in Italy i saw sometimes skinheads of Germany in gigs, i've seen also scandinavian Skinheads vay NS but the bad habits of Skinheads are usually the same. Maybe in Italy there is a net of political orgs in which tehy can be formed in better way.
Politicized does not mean attending concerts. Attending concerts helps a few con men get rich - nothing else. Skinheads are per se a subculture and thus on the same level as punks, Goths, hippies. While some of them may be political they are still first and foremost a part of a subculture and not of a political movement. If the latter were the case they would not look like street thungs and would not refer to themselves as "criminal class" (as seen in one of the pics you posted).

Phlegethon
Monday, December 13th, 2004, 03:37 PM
I think that their look is problematic. Ask one hundred ordinary people and more than ninety of them will tell you that they see a tatooed anti social. His worn out trousers (Domestos :D ) contribute to the overall appearance.
That's right. I would never hire someone for a job in which he'd have to deal with customers face to face who is tattooed, no matter how old the person is, whether the person is male or female, good-looking or ugly, diligent or lazy, simply because tattoos are still regarded as a domain of the social pariah, merchant navy and prison inmates.

Phlegethon
Monday, December 13th, 2004, 03:38 PM
you obviously have not been to the polish area of chicago
Fortunately not. If I want to hear people speak Polish I just have to leave the house. They are all over here.

Spartacus74
Monday, December 13th, 2004, 03:56 PM
Politicized does not mean attending concerts. Attending concerts helps a few con men get rich - nothing else. Skinheads are per se a subculture and thus on the same level as punks, Goths, hippies. While some of them may be political they are still first and foremost a part of a subculture and not of a political movement. If the latter were the case they would not look like street thungs and would not refer to themselves as "criminal class" (as seen in one of the pics you posted).
i haven't see in Italy some who is becoming rich with gigs of Skinheads, no cons would use skinheads for getting money i think.
The phrase "criminal class" is a term of joking with irony, looking the media criminalization is very easy to get labeled as a criminal but maybe most of skins are normal people with maybe some reporting for drinking and driving or some punch in a pub or maybe stadium damages but not more.
Certainly if you see counterpart as Autonomen you can see much more reported crimes or alleged crimes in all level.

Of course imagine is important for working but not in a factory where you move stuffs and where you hold weights.

Aistulf
Monday, December 13th, 2004, 04:06 PM
Fortunately not. If I want to hear people speak Polish I just have to leave the house. They are all over here.
Same here, we have quite a lot of them aswell nowadays.

Phlegethon
Monday, December 13th, 2004, 04:10 PM
i haven't see in Italy some who is becoming rich with gigs of Skinheads, no cons would use skinheads for getting money i think.
I know quite a few who are skinheads themselves. And ever heard of Rock-O-Rama Records in Germany?


The phrase "criminal class" is a term of joking with irony, looking the media criminalization is very easy to get labeled as a criminal but maybe most of skins are normal people with maybe some reporting for drinking and driving or some punch in a pub or maybe stadium damages but not more.
The irony is completely lost if normal people see that label.


Certainly if you see counterpart as Autonomen you can see much more reported crimes or alleged crimes in all level.
I don't know about you, but to me other standards apply.


Of course imagine is important for working but not in a factory where you move stuffs and where you hold weights.
Let's be realistic here. These jobs simply no longer exist - except in China or eastern Europe. And then skinheads will be in for a big surprise at their appointment with the labor office.

Oskorei
Monday, December 13th, 2004, 06:47 PM
I'm just curious, what is a terroni?

Phlegethon
Monday, December 13th, 2004, 06:57 PM
It means peon, farmer. But is is used by the Lega Nord as a degrading stereotype for southern Italians.

Oskorei
Monday, December 13th, 2004, 07:00 PM
It means peon, farmer. But is is used by the Lega Nord as a degrading stereotype for southern Italians.Thanks, Phlegethon. You de man ;)

Aistulf
Monday, December 13th, 2004, 07:02 PM
It means peon, farmer. But is is used by the Lega Nord as a degrading stereotype for southern Italians.
"Terroni" is the plural form. You probably meant "terrone", right? Anyways, more accurately it means: (someone) 'low to the ground', since "terra" means earth/ground.

Not only the Lega Nord uses it, northerners in general and not always negatively :P


(By the way, how did you know this? Google?)

Phlegethon
Monday, December 13th, 2004, 07:03 PM
Me dat White Man!

Phlegethon
Monday, December 13th, 2004, 07:14 PM
"Terroni" is the plural form. You probably meant "terrone", right?
Yep. Typo.


Anyways, more accurately it means: (someone) 'low to the ground', since "terra" means earth/ground.
That is the problem with cross translation from Italian to German to English. ;) I'll settle for farm toiler.


Not only the Lega Nord uses it, northerners in general and not always negatively :P
I am quite sure the terroni disagree with that.



(By the way, how did you know this? Google?)
I have relatives in Frascati. Guess that is already terroni territory. ;)

Awar
Monday, December 13th, 2004, 07:19 PM
Don Phlegone of the Phlega Nord

Phlegethon
Monday, December 13th, 2004, 07:29 PM
The Great Bucceroni.

Master-of-Swords
Monday, December 13th, 2004, 10:42 PM
A forum threatened to kick me out because I said that all skinheads are white niggers that belong in a concentration camp. I understand that this comment might be shocking to some, but not when one looks at the debasing comments that the baldies themselves make on this forum. I really would not mind one bit if I get booted from it, as there is hardly any kind of discussion going on that reaches a level above what I chatted about in kindergarten (and that was a lot!). It seems that all the nutzis on it are free to insult anybody who criticizes their beloved "Führer," but when one criticizes their narrow-mindedness in their own language, one is threatened with expulsion. Why do these people feel the need to frequent a forum at all?

Constantin
I dont think that it is helpful to categorise someones intelligence by his haircut.To do so would indeed be a poor reflection of our own discernment would it not?
However you are right in pointing out that there are too many Neandertals in this movement.

anti-climacus
Tuesday, December 14th, 2004, 04:41 AM
I dont think that it is helpful to categorise someones intelligence by his haircut.To do so would indeed be a poor reflection of our own discernment would it not?
However you are right in pointing out that there are too many Neandertals in this movement.
Having a shaved head does not make you a skinhead. It involves beer, byrds, boots, braces, and football. Which is the formula for working class idiots.

Oskorei
Tuesday, December 14th, 2004, 10:39 AM
I dont think that it is helpful to categorise someones intelligence by his haircut.To do so would indeed be a poor reflection of our own discernment would it not?
However you are right in pointing out that there are too many Neandertals in this movement.
Our problem is not too many Neanderthals, our problem is too few intellectuals and leaders.

The NSDAP had it's fair share of Neanderthals, but it also had a lot of charmismatic and intelligent leaders. That combination was what allowed them to gain power. Leaders without fighters will get beaten up by anti-racists, and not be able to reach the people; fighters without leaders will use a lot of time and energy, but not achieve much.

Wissen ist Macht
Tuesday, December 14th, 2004, 11:10 AM
Our problem is not too many Neanderthals, our problem is too few intellectuals and leaders.

The NSDAP had it's fair share of Neanderthals, but it also had a lot of charmismatic and intelligent leaders. That combination was what allowed them to gain power. Leaders without fighters will get beaten up by anti-racists, and not be able to reach the people; fighters without leaders will use a lot of time and energy, but not achieve much.

Exactly!
That's what I wrote earlier in this thread regarding the comparison of modern skinheads with the SA of the NSDAP.

We should ask ourselves why there are so few intellectuals and leaders in our ranks?
In my opinion this can once again be traced back to two of our worst enemies: the media and the liberal neo-marxist plague also known in Germany as the Frankfurt School which provided the spiritual basis for the 68ies student movement.
As I explained in another thread (may have been in the German section), the problem is that these liberal left-wing idiots have gained the crucial positions in the government and the educational system (at least in Germany). As the state-run schools use something that could be called brain washing, it is to no surprise that there are very few "intellectuals" getting into "evil" theories and political views.
But once again, I am at a loss when trying to think of a solution for this problem.

Awar
Tuesday, December 14th, 2004, 11:33 AM
A true intellectual wouldn't look at anything from in the "good vs. evil" form.

The truth is that the two sides of the political battle need to abolish eachother to function well. Fascism/NS wouldn't work in a democratic surroinding, while the 'democratic ones' need to abolish Fascism/NS so they can function.

Fascism/NS has a very popullistic ring to it, but it has the fault of too easily falling into authoritarianism, and that only works as long as the leader doesn't die, or doesn't go insane. Then, it crashes and burns in a revolution.

On the other hand, the 'democratic system' as we have it can only work with constant brainwashing and buying of social peace. If it fails, then it falls into Fascism/NS, and I already explained my view on how F/NS falls.

Wissen ist Macht
Tuesday, December 14th, 2004, 11:57 AM
A true intellectual wouldn't look at anything from in the "good vs. evil" form.
Yes, but the fewest people will do so, because of the ongoing brain washing. If you are told that National Socialism is "evil" almost from birth on, only the fewest will have the courage to look behind the curtain of deception once they get interested in the whole thing.
In Germany, there have even been Auschwitz-"events" in kindergartens (children aged 3 - 7 are usually attending kindergarten...). :-O :(


Fascism/NS has a very popullistic ring to it, but it has the fault of too easily falling into authoritarianism, and that only works as long as the leader doesn't die, or doesn't go insane. Then, it crashes and burns in a revolution.
AFAIK, Alfred Rosenberg outlined another or revised form of National Socialism in his books "Ideen und Idole der nationalsozialistischen Revolution" (Ideas and idols of the nationalsocialistic revolution) which he wrote in Nürnberg when waiting for his execution. His revised form of NS did not concentrate on a leader like the historical NS did on Adolf Hitler. I have not been able to get the book though, as it is quite hard to find and expensive - at least the first and uncensored edition (several pages had to be blackened in following editions...)

ogenoct
Tuesday, December 14th, 2004, 12:12 PM
Alfred Rosenberg outlined another or revised form of National Socialism in his books "Ideen und Idole der nationalsozialistischen Revolution" (Ideas and idols of the nationalsocialistic revolution) which he wrote in Nürnberg when waiting for his execution. His revised form of NS did not concentrate on a leader like the historical NS did on Adolf Hitler.
This sounds interesting. I have never heard of this book. Where can I find out more about it? Also, in Werner Braeuninger's book STRAHLUNGSFELDER DES NATIONALSOZIALISMUS, there is a chapter devoted to the planned development of an NS-Senate (based on the Roman Republican principle).

Constantin

Awar
Tuesday, December 14th, 2004, 12:30 PM
Ogenoct will scan the book and fill in the blanks ;)

Wissen ist Macht
Tuesday, December 14th, 2004, 12:35 PM
This sounds interesting. I have never heard of this book. Where can I find out more about it? Also, in Werner Braeuninger's book STRAHLUNGSFELDER DES NATIONALSOZIALISMUS, there is a chapter devoted to the planned development of an NS-Senate (based on the Roman Republican principle).

Constantin
Hello Constantin!
You may try to get the the book via http://www.zvab.com
The correct title is

Alfred Rosenberg
Letzte Aufzeichnungen
Ideale und Idole der nationalsozialistischen Revolution

It is important to get the first edition published in the 1950ies as later editions had to be censored (freedom of speech hahahaha :-O ) and the real first edition from the 40ies was commentend by someone (published as "Portrait eines Menschheitsverbrechers").

I think that Rosenberg's thoughts also went somewhere to a NS-senate.

Prussian
Tuesday, December 14th, 2004, 01:00 PM
........indeed a very worthwhile publication to try & seek out for interests sake, many thanks to Wissen ist Macht for mentioning it's existence, now just to find such a copy is the task to undertake, finding such a gem would be fulfilling to add to the library.

Phlegethon
Tuesday, December 14th, 2004, 03:09 PM
Better save your money for something relevant. Rosenberg was already passé in 1942.

Oskorei
Tuesday, December 14th, 2004, 04:20 PM
Exactly!
That's what I wrote earlier in this thread regarding the comparison of modern skinheads with the SA of the NSDAP.

We should ask ourselves why there are so few intellectuals and leaders in our ranks?
In my opinion this can once again be traced back to two of our worst enemies: the media and the liberal neo-marxist plague also known in Germany as the Frankfurt School which provided the spiritual basis for the 68ies student movement.
As I explained in another thread (may have been in the German section), the problem is that these liberal left-wing idiots have gained the crucial positions in the government and the educational system (at least in Germany). As the state-run schools use something that could be called brain washing, it is to no surprise that there are very few "intellectuals" getting into "evil" theories and political views.
But once again, I am at a loss when trying to think of a solution for this problem.
I agree with your analysis. This state of affairs ensures that our intellectuals have a higher quality though, both intellectually and as persons. I think that is pretty obvious from looking at some of the people here at Skadi ;)

Spartacus74
Tuesday, December 14th, 2004, 04:52 PM
Yep. Typo.



I have relatives in Frascati. Guess that is already terroni territory. ;)
Terroni was used by several decades for labeling people from Rome to Sicily, it's related to Terra which is earth in meaning of rednecks and ignorants, and it does refer to the racistic attitude of some elites of former Savoia in XiX who claims to be more french than italians.
IN north of Italy expecially in Turin French language was used and the southern looked as underdeveloped mass of countrysiders.

By the way before to say "terroni" to southerns it was normal to insulte in that way people from Veneto, a land of agriculture and people who use to talk in dialect without using italian language.

Going back to the skinheads i add that i've heard about Rock O' Rama on the media,but in Italy is different, some wants to gain money but not until the line of getting a rich pocket by skinhead music.

IN Italy skinheads are also people of normal families, people who works in the factories as storesman or as specialized workers, some also use to work in the asselblage of tools as whirpools and other works in plumbering.
Some is also from good families and some other works in the turism as bar tender or pub tender.
Not all skinheads in Italy are cons similar or antisocial and i know some of them who were involved also in the Army for some years gaining good respect.

If you see VFS Veneto Fronte Skinheads they organize conferences and public speech about item of economy and everyday life, not for anything VFS is a "cultural association" for the statute (as a political movement has been banned by legal act).

Some of skinheads commits bullshits but i can ensure that therev are militants dressed as normal who acts in the same way and in Italy are labeled as extramists always because of the violence of the rightwings history.

http://www.venetofronteskinheads.org/

if you see the link you will see books related and media launches for print, so i don't talk about the thugs of the streets usually called "naziskins" or sometimes "gabbers" thus the lumpen people you see on the black chronicle but i talk about guys who do politic in serious way and many times work with neofascist movements.

i regret penal issues in politics but i don't consider one a criminal because a couple of times is involving in punch in a pub, in that way 90% of youngs or less youngs would be criminals.

Spartacus74
Tuesday, December 14th, 2004, 04:58 PM
http://www.venetofronteskinheads.org/notizie.htmsee how different is this org of Skinheads the main one in Italy respect other forms of skinhead culture in Italy as abroad, if some knows some org of skins acts in same way let him says.

Zyklop
Sunday, December 19th, 2004, 06:25 PM
i haven't see in Italy some who is becoming rich with gigs of Skinheads, no cons would use skinheads for getting money i think.
I know quite a few who are skinheads themselves. And ever heard of Rock-O-Rama Records in Germany?

Or Thorsten Lemmer? :D :P

Phlegethon
Sunday, December 19th, 2004, 06:49 PM
Yeah, Lemmer should be put in jail for the lousy bands he had under contract and for the waste of polycarbonate by putting this noise on CDs.

Zyklop
Sunday, December 19th, 2004, 09:48 PM
Yeah, Lemmer should be put in jail
Nah, he should be chained on one of his beloved tanning beds :glasses

Phlegethon
Sunday, December 19th, 2004, 09:58 PM
Non-whites out! ;)

Zyklop
Sunday, December 19th, 2004, 10:00 PM
The Antifa also is funny sometimes:

Thorsten Lemmer - Sonnenbankbesitzer und auch
sonst ziemlich braun
http://www.antifa-kok.de/hintergrund/express30042001.htm

:D :rofl

Spartacus74
Monday, December 20th, 2004, 10:19 PM
look instead those imagines recalled by the site of antifa http://www.romagnaskinheads.tk/


MISTO - VARIE
http://romagnaskins.altervista.org/sabcat.gif


http://romagnaskins.altervista.org/igno.jpg

http://romagnaskins.altervista.org/ikurrina.gif
http://romagnaskins.altervista.org/sf.gif


http://romagnaskins.altervista.org/etalogo.gif


http://romagnaskins.altervista.org/star1.gif


http://romagnaskins.altervista.org/blkred.jpg


http://romagnaskins.altervista.org/fol51.gif


http://romagnaskins.altervista.org/izarra.gif


http://romagnaskins.altervista.org/kupul-redhammer.jpg


http://romagnaskins.altervista.org/makhnovchtchina.jpg


http://romagnaskins.altervista.org/wildcat2.jpg


http://romagnaskins.altervista.org/vllogo.gif


http://romagnaskins.altervista.org/stern.gif

BG_Patriot
Tuesday, December 21st, 2004, 11:21 PM
Skinheads are people that just want to get drunk and fight...They are almost not helping any national cause (atleast in Bulgaria), because they can't unite and make a Skinhead front that would be strong, since there is hundreds of little groups fighting one between the others and since most of the Skinheads care more about their football team than their country.

Atleast they kill 1-2 gypsies from time to time, not that it helps much since those scumbags are reproducing like rats.

Awar
Wednesday, December 22nd, 2004, 12:09 AM
The fact they kill one or two Gypsies is a really really negative thing.

First of all, why should they kill anyone? We're talking about some seriously illegal activity which is frowned upon in peace time in most civilizations.

Second, it's clear that whenever the Skinheads do anything similar, the media will make a whole show out of it, and strengthen the general belief that any right-wing idea is wrong, thus making it impossible for anti-multicultural ideas to become heard.

Several years ago, some Skinheads killed a defenseless Gypsy child. I wonder how many of these "brave Aryan heroes" did it take to murder a child.
And it wasn't a child from a family of beggars/criminals, but from a culturally 'normal' family. Since then, in Serbia, Skinheads have become even more marginalized and unpopular among the people. Rightfully so, I might add.

There is absolutely no need for any radical movements. Even if an entire European nation became radicalized and rebelled against multiculturalism and violently removed the immigrants from their soil, it would turn out to be a short-lived rebellion, because this European nation would have the entire world against them.

It's just the way things are, there's no point in getting ill over it. As long as a person holds to some set standards, and influences his friends and family, it's a good ammount of national awareness.

Oskorei
Wednesday, December 22nd, 2004, 12:20 AM
You've become a National-Anarchist, Awar? ;)

Awar
Wednesday, December 22nd, 2004, 12:24 AM
Nope, just realist :P

Awar
Wednesday, December 22nd, 2004, 12:34 AM
If/when people free themselves of this PC/Multi-Culti bullshit,
then, I'll have another opinion on how to improve things :)

Until then, it's good to spread national awareness, and to strive
for something above streetfights with 'differents'.

Skinheads and others who roll in the gutter are low in the food chain
of human civilization. For example, in a corrupt country like Serbia,
a single police inspector has enough authority, power and connections ( both legal and illegal ) to arrest and imprison each and every Skinhead in this country, regardless if they are gulity or innocent.

It's something these people can't deal with, and, as soon as the media craves some
show like that, and as soon as some police official sees interest in such an action, he'll do it...

Phlegethon
Wednesday, December 22nd, 2004, 12:49 AM
I always thought skinheads in Serbia were actually doing the dirty work for the police and the state. For if they didn't they'd have been put in labor camps a long time ago.

Awar
Wednesday, December 22nd, 2004, 12:57 AM
Nah, our skinheads remind me most of Dr.Brandt :D ( and not the one history will remember ) ;)

The national interests of Serbs are not anywhere in the agenda of the state.

Aistulf
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 02:49 AM
You've become a National-Anarchist, Awar? ;)
How would "national anarchism" work out? Don't (true) anarchists believe in a 'nation-less' world?

Odin Biggles
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 03:04 AM
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=28362&stc=1

MARSCHE MARSCHE MARSCHE !

Bulair
Friday, December 24th, 2004, 12:40 PM
Skinheads suck.They are worthless assholes, I was walking home from work past midnight and these little teenage fucks came asking for money, I didn't give them any and they hit me in the head with something and I had to run away.I feel quite stupid now, almost beaten up by some teenagers.

But I guess they just needed my money to contribute to the white-nationalist cause, not to get drunk of course;)

Oskorei
Friday, December 24th, 2004, 10:25 PM
How would "national anarchism" work out? Don't (true) anarchists believe in a 'nation-less' world?
The original Anarchists from the 1800's actually believed in the nation, the family, and the region, as natural communities (this is especially true with Proudhon and Bakunin). They hence believed in the right for any nation to take political form through voluntary federation (they also believed in the right for the individual, or village, or other unit, to remain unfederated). Their main objection was to nationalism tied to the State (the State being based on authority flowing from the top and down. The Federation being based on authority flowing from the bottom to the top).

The keyword for them was voluntary federation. Their internationalism was, as the name implies, the belief in cooperation between nations, not the abloition of nations. For the early Socialists, it was possible to be both Nationalist, Internationalist and Socialist at the same time. This is also true with Marx, Jack London and others. I think this really changed with the 68-movement, when ethnomasochism raised its ugly head in the Left for real (traces of this existed before as well but not as the mainstream).

Anyway, National Anarchism is really more part of a Fascist tradition of philosophy as I see it. And no, I dont think it would work either (even though the idea is a nice one).

Oskorei
Friday, December 24th, 2004, 10:29 PM
Skinheads suck.They are worthless assholes, I was walking home from work past midnight and these little teenage fucks came asking for money, I didn't give them any and they hit me in the head with something and I had to run away.I feel quite stupid now, almost beaten up by some teenagers.

But I guess they just needed my money to contribute to the white-nationalist cause, not to get drunk of course;)
I don't know about Bulgaria, but in Sweden the number of apolitical and leftist Skinheads is not insignificant. These are the people who say "it's a lifestyle" and "no politics", and generally behave like Punks.

Bulair
Friday, December 24th, 2004, 10:42 PM
Most skinheads here are football hooligans and it's almost impossible to see a skinhead who isn't devoted to his favourite football team and if you don't go to football matches you can avoid unpleasant contacts with them.But I must agree, they are white thrash.They are totaly useless, they just pick on defenseless gypsy women and children.

Spartacus74
Sunday, December 26th, 2004, 04:29 PM
what are you describing is a class of nerds whom dresse as NS and claim to be skinheads. In Italy we have negative persons in such way but i've never heard about people so stupid to go thieving the pedestrians across the roads.



Anyway in Italy we say "Rowenta, per chi non si accontenta!":D

In english the TV spot of Rowenta would says, more or less, Rowenta for whom never satisfy themselves"!

Death and the Sun
Friday, March 18th, 2005, 08:38 PM
What are your opinions on Skinheads?

What are the skins groups in your country like?

Are there any skin groups where you live?

Are they Neo-Nazis? Non-racially motivated? Football or ice hockey hooligans?

Are there any SHARP skins in your city/country?

Are you a skin?

If not, do you think skins benefit the movement, or not?

Do you have to wear DM's and an Alpha Industries jacket to be a skin?

jcs
Friday, March 18th, 2005, 09:02 PM
What are your opinions on Skinheads? Plebeian working-class fools whose motivations are quite obvious: they are full of resentment and find their movement agreeable because it allows them to blame foreigners for their own failure. They're not entirely wrong; it's just that I question their motives--and actions.


What are the skins groups in your country like? "WP! 14/88!!!1!!one"


Are they Neo-Nazis? Non-racially motivated? Football of ice hockey hooligans? Most skins identify with neo-nazism. They are racists, not racialists (that is, they embrace xenophobic supremacist notions because it makes them feel better about themselves. again, they're not entirely wrong; they just have questionable motives). They're the quintessential hooligans.


Are you a skin? No.


If not, do you think skins benefit the movement, or not? Skins, along with Neo-Nazis, WNs, and anyone else screaming "White Power" or "RaHoWa" are a hindrance to the sane, rational presentation of racialism. The media and common man associate any racialist with such types immediately; what can be done to distance ourselves from skins (and related) should be, lest we be forever associated with "evil nazis!" by the majority.

perkele14
Friday, March 18th, 2005, 10:03 PM
So you are saying that Skinheads are a disgrace, are you not?

jcs
Friday, March 18th, 2005, 11:37 PM
So you are saying that Skinheads are a disgrace, are you not? The skinhead movement as a whole is disgraceful.

perkele14
Friday, March 18th, 2005, 11:40 PM
The skinhead movement as a whole is disgraceful.

What is the contemporary warrior by your account?

Skildur
Friday, March 18th, 2005, 11:47 PM
The skinhead movement as a whole is disgraceful.


I will disagree. Please, explain your opinion.

Pan-FinnoUgric
Friday, March 18th, 2005, 11:55 PM
95% of skinheads are morons, that 5%, which is left, is really respectful group :)

perkele14
Saturday, March 19th, 2005, 12:02 AM
95% of skinheads are morons, that 5%, which is left, is really respectful group :)

What is your opinion on a conscript army, on same grounds?

jcs
Saturday, March 19th, 2005, 12:08 AM
What is the contemporary warrior by your account? The warrior has been brought to the level of the common man, hence losing its warrior spirit. There are no contemporary warriors for this reason.
For example: soldiers are not warriors in that they pursue their path first and foremost as a career rather than as a vocation. Returning to the topic, skins pursue a contrived warrior life while failing to embrace all that is noble about the warrior.


I will disagree. Please, explain your opinion. Oi is pure garbage.
The skinhead movement consists largely of imbeciles talking about how enraged they are at the current state of affairs, drinking, wearing their little uniforms, and screaming profanity.

Todesritter
Saturday, March 19th, 2005, 12:13 AM
Study the story of Hitler's SA 'Brown Shirts'.

They were useful at a certain stage, under proper guidance as part of a larger coordinated movement, due in no small part to mobilizing their opponents. When those who fought the SA took to the streets, their parent organization, who was beginning to influence politics and being portrayed more sympathetically by Weimar media of the day. They were useful as a catalyst to create a certain type of disorder, and increase voter sympathy for harsher methods to promote 'law and order', yet were still seen mostly as the 'good guys' violent by sympathetic vigilantes, due to who their enemies were, and picking when and where to have violence. Afterward, they needed to be dissolved, once they had served their purpose.

Today's Skinheads are far from being as disciplined of purpose as even the unruly SA was - and there is no larger unified coordinating movement they tend to serve. They largely do more harm than good for Northern European interests, increasing sympathy in the public for those they attack.

Skildur
Saturday, March 19th, 2005, 12:17 AM
Oi is pure garbage.
The skinhead movement consists largely of imbeciles talking about how enraged they are at the current state of affairs, drinking, wearing their little uniforms, and screaming profanity.

The ones I met were quite well educated, and have done things that not so many racialists have guts to do. Battling caucasoids on the streets, defending white people from their attacks, tearing their 'markets' to the ground. At leats it's some kind of activity and not just blabbing on the net. I agree there are many "poseurs" who see skinheads movement only as a way to express themselves, but there are still few people who go further than that.

jcs
Saturday, March 19th, 2005, 12:23 AM
Battling caucasoids on the streets, defending white people from their attacks, tearing their 'markets' to the ground. Aside from defending whites under attack, I see nothing about these illegal actions that deserves respect. And I'm sure that most skins look for whites in a seeming altercation, hoping to start a fight.


The ones I met were quite well educated, and have done things that not so many racialists have guts to do. Or that most racialists have the brains not to do.

I'm not saying all skins are aggresive idiots, just most of them.

Skildur
Saturday, March 19th, 2005, 12:28 AM
Aside from defending whites under attack, I see nothing about these illegal actions that deserves respect. And I'm sure that most skins look for whites in a seeming altercation, hoping to start a fight.

Or that most racialists have the brains not to do.

I'm not saying all skins are aggresive idiots, just most of them.

Even if they are idiots, they are doing a good job. :viking1: I have nothing against them. :biggrin:

perkele14
Saturday, March 19th, 2005, 12:37 AM
Even if they are idiots, they are doing a good job. :viking1: I have nothing against them. :biggrin:

My thoughts exactly. :beer-smil

" It is easy to scorn and condemn these people as "mindless thugs" and "criminal brutes". Not as easy but far more constructive is to channel this aggressive energy into political use. When the ”proper patriot” wishing to make a demonstration is confronted with the bloodthirsty red mob I am certain that he or she wish there were more "thugs" and "brutes" around in our own camp"

Nightmare_Gbg
Saturday, March 19th, 2005, 12:41 AM
I'm an ex-skinhead,and if that makes me discraceful in some peoples eyes so be it. I'm proud of what i did and i did alot of recruting at that time,not only to the skinheads but to the movment in general.And i dont like people belittleling the effort skins make.

jcs
Saturday, March 19th, 2005, 12:48 AM
I'm an ex-skinhead Why did you quit?

Nightmare_Gbg
Saturday, March 19th, 2005, 12:53 AM
I got to old.

Stig NHF
Saturday, March 19th, 2005, 07:43 AM
I can't believe I'm actually seeing "skinheadism" being portrayed as something good in 2005. I hoped we were done with this in 1995. They have created a subculture that worships itself, it is empty and devoid of anything useful. 99 % of the good elements of the "skinhead scene" as they like to call it, left it back in the 90's. I would hope you all would do so too. Do you really want to be a brother of these people?
http://ipv.pesni.ru/Pics/ForArticle/skinheads.jpg

Freja
Saturday, March 19th, 2005, 08:39 AM
Plebeian working-class fools whose motivations are quite obvious: they are full of resentment and find their movement agreeable because it allows them to blame foreigners for their own failure. They're not entirely wrong; it's just that I question their motives--and actions.

Most skins identify with neo-nazism. They are racists, not racialists (that is, they embrace xenophobic supremacist notions because it makes them feel better about themselves. again, they're not entirely wrong; they just have questionable motives). They're the quintessential hooligans.

Skins, along with Neo-Nazis, WNs, and anyone else screaming "White Power" or "RaHoWa" are a hindrance to the sane, rational presentation of racialism. The media and common man associate any racialist with such types immediately; what can be done to distance ourselves from skins (and related) should be, lest we be forever associated with "evil nazis!" by the majority.

These are my sentiments exactly. I can`t see how on earth running around, screaming, and tearing immigrants marketstalls to the ground is doing any good.
I will give praise, however, to anyone who awakens racialist awareness in another Nordic person. Many skins seem to calm down after some time and start acting like grown-ups without losing their racialist beliefs.

I don`t like the neo-nazi aspect of the skinhead-culture.
(Oh, and needless to say, I`m not a skin myself... :icon_lol: )

Zyklop
Saturday, March 19th, 2005, 09:11 AM
I generally dislike subcultural isolation, be it the Skinhead, NSBM or Heathen scene.
On the other hand, people who are afraid of getting their hands dirty are worthless in every movement.

Prodigal Son
Saturday, March 19th, 2005, 09:58 AM
Skinheads, at least in my area, tend to be of low socioeconomic status, maladjusted, of below average intelligence, and extremely prone to pathological behaviors. For instance, one of my high school friends, who moved to a rural, crime-ridden 'white trash' area, subsequently joined the National Socialist German Workers Party of Washington (boasting 257 members, no less, lol), became a metamphetamine addict, racked up four felony convictions (including one for asaulting his own mother), and a countless number of fines and misdemeanors, impregnated four females, and is now trying to join the US Army. The last I heard of him, he was living some ghetto in inner Seattle and cohabiting with a black female. People like that are the reason why I (or any other sane person with two brain cells to rub together and a reputation to protect) don't want to be publically assosciated with modern racialism (even my private form of racialism is very different from the psychopathic rahowa fantasies that most skinheads masturbate to).

Death and the Sun
Saturday, March 19th, 2005, 12:37 PM
Do you really want to be a brother of these people?
http://ipv.pesni.ru/Pics/ForArticle/skinheads.jpg



Why not? :viking1:

It's true skins are often uneducated, which btw is NOT synonymous with stupid. I think those who call skins a "disgrace" have bought into the media image of skins as drunken, aggressive morons.

I know a few skins. None of them are stupid or alcoholics. Some of them have university degrees.

Most skinhead groups' power structure looksl like a pyramid. The guys I mentioned above are usually at the top, while at the bottom there are lots of young guys who don't necessarily have much interest in the ideological side of the whole affair, but are just looking for a good time. And there's nothing wrong with that -- some of them may outgrow the skinhead scene later, but probably they won't give up their racialist beliefs.

All in all I think skinheads are fine and a valuable group to our cause. :viking1:

I myself am not a skin and never have been, btw.

Prodigal Son
Saturday, March 19th, 2005, 12:43 PM
...... None of them are stupid or alcoholics. Some of them have university degrees....


In that case, the European skinhead is an entirely different animal from the American variety. I've never met a skinhead with an education above the high school level (I've know quite a few), and have met plenty who were drunks, drug addicts, and felons.

Death and the Sun
Saturday, March 19th, 2005, 12:52 PM
In the case, the European skinhead is an entirely different animal from the American variety. I've never met a skinhead with an education above the high school level (I've know quite a few), and have met plenty who were drunks, drug addicts, and felons.

I'm sure that are some skins of the kind you describe in the Nordic countries as well. But I believe that in general you are right: European and American skins are a breed apart.

The problem is, when discussing this topic, we're forced to rely on personal experiences. There aren't any trustworthy sources of unbiased information on the skinhead "scene".

Pan-FinnoUgric
Saturday, March 19th, 2005, 01:21 PM
Do you want to be like those in pic???

PS: They even put that pic to their OWN website :biggrin:

Death and the Sun
Saturday, March 19th, 2005, 01:22 PM
Do you want to be like those in pic???


I can't want to be like the guys in the pic, because I don't KNOW what they're like. It's just a photograph of three guys. It doesn't tell us much.

Freja
Saturday, March 19th, 2005, 01:28 PM
Do you want to be like those in pic???

PS: They even put that pic to their OWN website :biggrin:

*insert puking smiley here*

Zyklop
Saturday, March 19th, 2005, 01:45 PM
I can't want to be like the guys in the pic, because I don't KNOW what they're like. It's just a photograph of three guys. It doesn't tell us much. You must check for the details. But you are right, it ain´t "much"...

Glory
Saturday, March 19th, 2005, 02:19 PM
Do you want to be like those in pic???

PS: They even put that pic to their OWN website :biggrin:
Looks like someone was having a good time. :rofl:

Blood_Axis
Tuesday, June 6th, 2006, 04:05 PM
Well, well, well.

Should I jump in so late & highjack this dead & buried thread?

I can't resist! :D

I've had extensive experience with skinheads. Of course I will not jump into gross generalizations such as "all skinheads are trash" or "all skinheads are good for the movement".

I have met skinheads of all kinds, ranging from primitive, illiterate boneheads who engage into farting & burping contests and can't even spell their own name, to educated and modest skinheads with PhDs.

It should be noted, though, that the skinheads with PhDs have grown out of it and do not consider themselves to be skinheads anymore. They have progressed in their personal and social lives.

Now, I am heavily surprised that nearly everyone in this thread was judgemental of this & that but almost nobody bothered to provide a substantiated criticism.

So here goes:

Skinhead culture, is of course, a subculture. That is not doubted, even by themselves.
And that is not necessarily bad at all. Many major art/political/social movements have begun as subcultures and have developed constructively. Many subcultures have the potential of developing & transforming into something good & constructive.

My critisicm on skinheads comes from my own experience and observation.

I do not care about their looks, their haircuts or anything else.

But what is really the problem is them, is their deconstructive & counterproductive attitudes, that are essentially contradicting their alleged "Cause".

1. Their hooliganism, is essentially a tool in the hands of the "enemy".
If I was the propagandist of the "enemy" (whoever that is), and I wanted to make Nationalists, Racialists, Preservationists, etc, look really bad, then this is what I would have projected. The image of a hooligan is essentially unappealing to any rational thinking human being.

2. Their generalized, idiotic, wrong-targeted use of violence.

I have more than once witnessed personally gangs of 10 or more skinheads beating up a single immigrant.
I have also noticed that they only become aggressive when they are in groups.
When they are alone, they usually don't respond violently, even when challenged.

Now, 10 people beating up one person indicates cowardice, lack of ethics, idiocy and lack of masculinity. None of which are characteristics of our own Folk.
It is what George Linkoln Rockwell (to use their own examples) would have called "un-Aryan" behavior and he would have kicked them out of the Party.

3. The "sausage club".
Most skinhead groups are either all-male or mostly male, and they usually are passionate misogynists. Even if a female do passes by, she will get so severely and disgustingly harassed that she will never stay to the "movement" long enough to make herself useful to the "Cause" (whatever that is, according to them).
So, talking about Race, and saving our Race and our countries from foreigners, and blah, blah, blah, all comes down to nothing if you don't have women to perpetuate your kind.
It takes two to build a family, but nobody seems to care (I wonder why).

4. Their overall counterproductiveness & degenerate lifestyle by choice.

I think that is the most serious problem of all.

There is nothing wrong with being a working class man (diregarding the fact for a moment that the majority skinheads I've met are rich, spoiled, lazy idiots that have nothing to do with working class or work whatsoever).

There is no rule that dictates that being a member of the working class, you must be a beer-drinking, life-hating and timid loser.

Why not read & educate yourself? Why not have a family? Why not save the money that were intended for your Saturday night beers and go to a museum or a theater once in a while, for a change?

And above all: why consider any kind of advancement & progress made by one of their members, to be "treason" and "selling out"?

This is hilarious!

If one of the "gang" enters the University, let's say, he is severely harassed that he has "betrayed the working class" (:rotfl), and the "movement" (:nope).
Even if one reads the "Mein Kampf" he is mocked, because instead of joining them into "real action" (oh, for heaven's sake :nope), he has "chickened out" and stayed inside to read.

If one finds a girlfriend and thinks seriously about her (that is, does not laugh at her behind her back with his friends, detailing to them how they had sex the previous night and promising to pass her on to them), he will be a "pussy whipped", "pathetic womanizer" who has "betrayed the Cause" for the girl.

If one decides to settle down and have a family, then it's all the worst for him:
He'll be a traitor to the "Cause" (how can one be a traitor to the Cause by having a family, when the Cause is allegedly to preserve your Race? :D), a whimp, a coward, a drop-out and a sell-out.

And all I have seen from them is whining, whining, whining about everything, name-calling & blaming, scape-goating and even fighting amongst themselves because they want to play "macho men" and they have nothing better to do.

And while all of that is happening, the real world outside the pub is changing. And it is changing for the worst but being enclosed in their tiny little world, they hardly notice.

Blood_Axis
Tuesday, June 6th, 2006, 04:22 PM
Oh, and one more thing:

I have heard them claiming more than once that other racialists are "intellectual whimps" and "cowards" and that only skinheads are the "true extremists".

Now, let's say that one wants to be an extremist. Whatever that means.

A casually dressed person of normal appearance that could not be picked out of a crowd could be carrying something suspicious or even lethal and nobody would notice or even suspect.

A fully armored skinhead could walk across the street to buy cigarettes and be arrested and strip searched just because of his looks.

Therefore, it should be clear that a person who claims himself to be an "extremist" and simultaneously prides himself in being a skinhead, has no intention of engaging into any kind of "extremist" acts other than burping & farting contests.
Though that could be thought by some as chemical warfare.. :D

Tripredacus
Tuesday, June 6th, 2006, 05:57 PM
The skinheads in this area are mainly part of the punk community. They often contradict themselves and have no true platform to speak of. The sad thing is that they believe in the stereotype of what society (and movies) tells them a neo-nazi believes in or behaves, rather than make up their own mind about things. As such, all of the ones I have talked to are not able to adequately explain their beliefs, or cite totally incorrect historical references. I had lived with a former for awhile, and he got out of it because it was going to destroy his life as most of his comrades (back home) ended up in jail or dead.

These types aren't lost causes however, they just seek direction.

Blood_Axis
Tuesday, June 6th, 2006, 06:16 PM
These types aren't lost causes however, they just seek direction.
Exactly.

That is what I meant above by speaking of deconstructive and counterproductive attitudes by choice.

You see, I see nothing wrong with passing from the skinhead stage. It is a chance for a first encounter with some issues, and then you can evolve to something more constructive.

The problems arise when one stagnates there beyond a certain age. ;)

Prince Eugen
Wednesday, June 7th, 2006, 06:42 PM
And something from a former ''skinhead''.I'm not shame for being a skinhead,i must say that in the skinhead ''movement'' i met many diamonds but also many trashes who believed that NS are only drinking beers and listening oi music!
All that uneducated trashes after few years in the scene when they find a job or finally a girl they give up not only this certain subculture but also and the NS idea!
And something about a true NS soldier said when he founded B&H movement!
''B&H movement isn't only a movement for skinheads but for all the European people''!

J.B. Basset
Wednesday, June 7th, 2006, 07:58 PM
[ NS are only drinking beers and listening oi music!
All that uneducated trashes after few years in the scene when they find a job or finally a girl they give up not only this certain subculture but also and the NS idea!

:) Quite questions have been arised about the idea of National Socialism as being not an exclussive "German product" . I would like to know your opinion about that. Is it possible to develope an original National and Socialist movement (or Socialist and National movement) beyond German borders? Or on the contrary is it all a fake?

:) My very personal and humble opinion is that a Socialist and National movement (let´s be original!) is possible without carrying extra weights from a past that sometimes is not really a "weight" but a burden.




And something about a true NS soldier said when he founded B&H movement!
''B&H movement isn't only a movement for skinheads but for all the European people''![/quote]





:) Well, time again to clear what has to do a racialist movement with a social movement? I f we consider Nacional Socialism deeper than the classic sterotypes but on the basis that it gave birth to some of the ideas that were the taken by later welfare states and on the juicy dream of a victorius Röhmer facing Himmler why we shoud put it on the same level that B&H?

Siebenbürgerin
Saturday, April 5th, 2008, 10:44 PM
In your Opinion, do they do more good or bad for our "Cause"?

Please discuss civilly and maturely. Also please explain why.

P.S. This Theme is about White nationalist/White Power/Neonazi Skinheads specifically. Not about other Kinds of Skinheads like anti-Racists.

Loddfafner
Sunday, April 6th, 2008, 01:32 AM
There are some solid individuals who have been in the wp skin scene, and it has more potential than it is often given credit for, but too much of it is a murderous cesspool of the dregs and the prison-bound that plays directly into the hands of those who push for our cultural disintegration. That section of the subculture brings out the worst in individuals, discredits skins in general, and displaces any real effort to rebuild our neighborhoods, our cities, and our people.

I have a much higher opinion of the regular, nonpolitical skins, but since that is outside the scope of this thread, I would like to point out a thread on "boots and braces" I made a while back at http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=4264

Ossi
Sunday, April 6th, 2008, 01:52 AM
Skins are good comrades when they protect the streets from foreigners. Many are working class or unemployed and fed up with the bloody system and all the immigrants. But unfortunately, they do more BAD than good for the image of nationalism in Germany. The NPD hung themselves by ties with skins and having skins in their ranks. Skins are regarded as the pariah of society. Some are uneducated and/or stupid. The white power ones are a liability if they support white "nationalism" and advocate the immigration of non-Germans in my country. I got fed up with that and with all the bloody "Aryan" talk.

Death and the Sun
Sunday, April 6th, 2008, 02:21 PM
There are some solid individuals who have been in the wp skin scene, and it has more potential than it is often given credit for, but too much of it is a murderous cesspool of the dregs and the prison-bound that plays directly into the hands of those who push for our cultural disintegration. That section of the subculture brings out the worst in individuals, discredits skins in general, and displaces any real effort to rebuild our neighborhoods, our cities, and our people.



I'm not involved with the skins scene in my country except only peripherally, but my experiences are pretty much the same. I guess some skins still do remember the original idea of personal dignity and self-respect (without which true respect for anyone else is not possible), but there seem to be way too many of them for whom the whole point seems to be drugs, alcohol and random violence, hooliganism and vandalism.

Guntwachar
Sunday, April 6th, 2008, 03:31 PM
Overall i think most are bad for the Nationalist reputation atleast the ones in the netherlands are, but i know a few skinns one is my neighbour that does know alot about our culture and also is quite smart and some others to they arent bad at all for our reputation but as with every kind of "group" the majority ruins it for the rest.

CharlesDexterWard
Sunday, April 6th, 2008, 04:06 PM
Good or bad for our cause?


Overall i think most are bad for the Nationalist reputation atleast the ones in the netherlands are, but i know a few skinns one is my neighbour that does know alot about our culture and also is quite smart and some others to they arent bad at all for our reputation but as with every kind of "group" the majority ruins it for the rest.

In this case, I'd say it's far worse. No smart people can save the "skinhead" or "14-88" movement. If it has any purpose at all, it is contrary to the cause of Germanic preservation in Europe. It is based on worthless national socialist nostalgia and utter rubbish. They serve the purposes of our enemies as an extremist scapegoat that keeps common people away from ethnic concerns and a good sense of identity. The only reason why they have a following at all is that shocking stereotypes and forbidden imagery somehow work in a world that revolves a lot around the appearances at the cost of the essences.

Guntwachar
Sunday, April 6th, 2008, 04:50 PM
Good or bad for our cause?



In this case, I'd say it's far worse. No smart people can save the "skinhead" or "14-88" movement. If it has any purpose at all, it is contrary to the cause of Germanic preservation in Europe. It is based on worthless national socialist nostalgia and utter rubbish. They serve the purposes of our enemies as an extremist scapegoat that keeps common people away from ethnic concerns and a good sense of identity. The only reason why they have a following at all is that shocking stereotypes and forbidden imagery somehow work in a world that revolves a lot around the appearances at the cost of the essences.

Never said that could save there movement i agree with you on that haha:D just ment i know some that arent that bad overall i cant stand skinns that act like hooligans and only praise Hitler all day long some of them can be nice guys but i just dont agree on there ideology if they have one thats also a question sometimes.

DanseMacabre
Monday, April 7th, 2008, 03:48 AM
I've known alot of skinheads over the years. Most were complete morons. They were interested in drinking, drugs, and assaulting the random non-white. Certainly not the best ways to further Germanic Preservation. In my experience the ones with any intelligence grew out of the skinhead scene.

I would put them in the same catagory as the KKK.

Soten
Monday, April 7th, 2008, 04:15 AM
No smart people can save the "skinhead" or "14-88" movement.

I've seen skinheads and WN's who have been "saved" and pulled back into the multicultural realm of thought, so I think it would be much easier to "re-educate" them into a pro-ethnic nationalism framework than do that.

On the whole, they do give any "white" person who is pro-Germanic a bad name. On the other hand, they are some of the few people who actually do anything...even if it is only beating up on random people.

I don't have any personal experience with skinheads but based on what I know I would simply consider them people with a lack of focus or direction.

Some definitely need more education in general, such as the Russian skinheads who praise Hitler...

Amorsite
Monday, April 7th, 2008, 04:33 AM
But unfortunately, they do more BAD than good for the image of nationalism in Germany.

No, they don't. It is the media that's created such image

MockTurtle
Monday, April 7th, 2008, 04:33 AM
On the whole, I think they are really just perfect opportunities for the mainstream media to build up the stereotype of anyone with racialist ideas as being alienated, uneducated, and socially unpresentable. And, this latter point is probably the most important -- the "image" of a movement is the most crucial part, because nobody will be attracted to people who simply give off an impression of being brutish and thug-like. Plus, I think it's obvious that most of them don't even have any clear ideology or belief structure whatsoever, it's more a matter of hobbyism (something I'm definitely not into).

I'll put it this way: Even though I might disagree with someone like Jared Taylor on certain points, he's an INFINITELY greater and more positive force for those with racialist leanings than a million rowdy skinheads. Taylor makes a very valuable contribution here: well-pressed suits and racialism go together! :D