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Skildur
Wednesday, March 9th, 2005, 12:55 AM
Not sure if it is Russian history, very few Russians know about this in any detail as far as I know. St. Petersburg and Karelia might be different, but I've heard accounts of very out-dated school books (soviet era) etc being used, littered with false information. I guess its Finnish history more than Russian history in that sense.


I agree, in the history course there was not much info about this war. I recently watched finnish movie about this war , and think that was real view on that happened at that time. Well, I can only hope that in the future relationship between our countries will change for good.

Lissu
Saturday, March 12th, 2005, 09:45 PM
I agree, in the history course there was not much info about this war. I recently watched finnish movie about this war , and think that was real view on that happened at that time. Well, I can only hope that in the future relationship between our countries will change for good.Which movie? :icon_bigg

Skildur
Saturday, March 12th, 2005, 09:54 PM
Which movie? :icon_bigg

I don't know it's name, but it was about one guy who was a commander of a small finnish division ( they were on bicycles) - how he was wounded and in the end met the woman he loved.

perkele14
Saturday, March 12th, 2005, 10:14 PM
I don't know it's name, but it was about one guy who was a commander of a small finnish division ( they were on bicycles) - how he was wounded and in the end met the woman he loved.

It was propably Rukajärven Tie, "the Road of/to Rukajärvi" if the picture looks familiar? The woman was caught by the red-army in an ambush?

http://elokuvantaju.uiah.fi/2001/oppimateriaali/kasikirjoitus/sisalto.jpg

My opinion of the genre is that there have not been decent Finnish war films since the new (1985) version of Tuntematon Sotilas (Unknown Soldier). Even if Rukajärven Tie is fairly good as a plain war movie, the characters lack in depth and the film has some obvious mistakes. Like the commanding officer riding a bike in front of the line, rank insignia on and the men advance with 2m space of eachother and so on.

Skildur
Saturday, March 12th, 2005, 10:31 PM
Yes, it is the movie I'm talking about. The movie had special atmosphere which really impressed me.

perkele14
Saturday, March 12th, 2005, 11:22 PM
Yes, it is the movie I'm talking about. The movie had special atmosphere which really impressed me.

The winter war (1939-1940) has been filmed too, but if you would like to see a truly good movie about the continuation war (1941-1944) I´d advise you to see Tuntematon Sotilas/Unknown Soldier. Eiter the B/W 1955 or 1985 version. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048752/

The 1955 version Russian edition I hear has been cut, e.g the scene where the red-army butchers the ambulance carrying wounded, due to political reasons. The movie is a filmatization of a book by the same name by Väinö Linna and I´m sure that a copy of a translation should be fairly easy to obtain!

What can you recommend on behalf of Russian movies? I recently watched Anti-Killer and it was really a nice piece of work! http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0325005/ Many non-hollywoodish elements, realistic portray of street violence and good action mixed with a strong storyline all the way!

Lissu
Saturday, March 12th, 2005, 11:36 PM
Should we start a war movie thread?

perkele14
Saturday, March 12th, 2005, 11:41 PM
Should we start a war movie thread?

Why not?

An excellent idea dear lady and my apologies for drifting away from the subject. :)

Lissu
Saturday, March 12th, 2005, 11:47 PM
Ok, this thread will be splitted :icon_bigg

Skildur
Sunday, March 13th, 2005, 12:06 AM
The winter war (1939-1940) has been filmed too, but if you would like to see a truly good movie about the continuation war (1941-1944) I´d advise you to see Tuntematon Sotilas/Unknown Soldier. Eiter the B/W 1955 or 1985 version. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048752/

The 1955 version Russian edition I hear has been cut, e.g the scene where the red-army butchers the ambulance carrying wounded, due to political reasons. The movie is a filmatization of a book by the same name by Väinö Linna and I´m sure that a copy of a translation should be fairly easy to obtain!

What can you recommend for behalf of Russian movies? I recently watched Anti-Killer and it was really a nice piece of work! http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0325005/ Many non-hollywoodish elements, realistic portray of street violence and good action mixed with a strong storyline all the way!


I try to look for it (Tuntematon Sotilas), but I'm not sure if I succeed to find it. As for Rukajärven Tie - I was watching it on TV.
As to the modern Russian movies - really can't say nothing certain, they are too much realistic - that's for sure. :mad:
As for me, I prefer old movies, like Alexander Nevsky.

http://www.leedscinema.com/leedscinema_images/Film%20Stills/Alexander%20Nevsky.jpg


Sorry, Louhi, firstly I haven't noticed you split that thread.

Lissu
Sunday, March 13th, 2005, 12:10 AM
Sorry, Louhi, firstly I haven't noticed you split that thread.It's OK :) I'm still learning these things myself :redface:

Susisaari
Sunday, March 13th, 2005, 01:10 AM
The winter war (1939-1940) has been filmed too, but if you would like to see a truly good movie about the continuation war (1941-1944) I´d advise you to see Tuntematon Sotilas/Unknown Soldier. Eiter the B/W 1955 or 1985 version. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048752/

The 1955 version Russian edition I hear has been cut, e.g the scene where the red-army butchers the ambulance carrying wounded, due to political reasons. The movie is a filmatization of a book by the same name by Väinö Linna and I´m sure that a copy of a translation should be fairly easy to obtain!


The translations of that book are pretty bad in any language because most of the dialogue is in dialects that cannot be translated. Just watch the film if you're interested, but I don't recommend it, I think it's rather boring.

The whole book was written for the purpose of destroying patriotic myths, and therefore the book includes e.g. a communist man in the Finnish army who constantly complains about everything, and a Russian communist civilian woman in Äänislinna/Petrozavodsk who says the Finns are fascists etc.

Lissu
Sunday, March 13th, 2005, 02:28 AM
http://www.memoriesoffinland.com/prodimages/ambush-DVD.jpg

As for Rukajärven Tie (Ambush), I liked the movie a lot. The landscapes and the athmosphere were very beautiful. Also the inner struggle and the sorrow of the main character, Ltn Perkola because of his fiancee whos convoy got ambushed by the Partisans was very interesting, as was the way it affected the moral and behaviour of the whole long-distance patrol. I think this is the most important part of the movie; It was more an anti-war movie rather than a war movie.

The movie is by no means flawless, as it is very Hollywood style and made with quite small budget. The most ridiculous part must be the sex-scene of Perkola and his fiancee, in front of the log-fire, in the middle of the hot summer in a village that has just been burned down! Also the the patrol is far too well equipped and in the real war, they all would have been killed very soon because of the way they moved in hostile land.

Despite the flaws the movie is very enjoyable and worth watching. As a side note, my ex-bf has a little role in the movie as a fallen Russian soldier :tongue:

More about Ambush: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0162625/

http://elokuvantaju.uiah.fi/2001/oppimateriaali/kasikirjoitus/teema.jpg

http://www.yle.fi/teema/sininenlaulu/kuvat/Ruka_frant_iso.jpg

Skildur
Sunday, March 13th, 2005, 03:04 AM
I agree with Louhi, the film has beautiful scenes and it's worth seeing.

Lissu
Sunday, March 13th, 2005, 12:52 PM
Then another favourite of mine, Russian film Kukushka/Cuckoo/Käki (2002).

http://www.cineforum.bz.it/pellicola/archivio/film/schede/kukushka/img/1542a5.gif

Very... different war movie. Lapland 1944, the end of the Continuation War: Veikko, a Finnish sniper, is left to die by his German comrades, because he is sick of war. Psolty, a Russian officer, is betrayed by his own. Anni, a Saami woman has lived on her own for years because her husband got killed in a war.

These three people are brought together by accident and they have to live together even if no one understands each others. Veikko just wants to live in peace, Psolty wants to kill Veikko and Anni just wants a man and now she has two of them. A lot of misunderstandnings, comical situations, passion and some tragedy.

Very beautifully shot movie, breathtaking landscapes. Worth watching :)

More: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0308476/

http://www.sandrewmetronome.fi/upload/movies/kukushka/xl_kaki1.jpg http://www.sandrewmetronome.fi/upload/movies/kukushka/xl_kaki2.jpg http://www.sandrewmetronome.fi/upload/movies/kukushka/xl_kaki3.jpg

Wiseman
Sunday, March 13th, 2005, 12:58 PM
I've seen most of the 'big' movies about our role in WW2. Rukajärventie is alright, although it suffers from the kind of staleness which is quite typical to Finnish movies. Talvisota was ok, a long gruelling portrayal of a frozen hell. Tuntematon Sotilas (1955) is a classic, I love the book and I always watch the movie on independence day. I think Linna is entirely justified in his pessimistic approach towards the whole patriotic Suur-Suomi ideal. Blunders were made, there is nothing wrong with pointing that out. I simply love the book, just as I love the Under The North Star - Trilogy as well. Väinö Linna had a talent for writing historical fiction.

I wish they would make a filmatization of Erkki Palolampi's 'Kollaa Kestää' book. It is entirely non-fiction, a book Palolampi wrote immediatly after the wars using his diary entries. The book depicts in gripping reality the desperate, yet valiant, defence of the Kollaa-line. 'Kollaa Kestää!' (Kollaa will hold!) was a rallying cry comparable to 'The Alamo!' of the Americans. I must have read the book 3 or 4 times. I read it for the first time when I was 11 years old.

Here is a little bit of background to those who don't know of this particular front:

North of the Carelian Isthmus which received the main initial assault of the Winter War, the Soviet Eighth Army - a force of seven divisions reinforced with armor units - assaulted the two divisions comprising the Finnish 4th Army Corps.

After pushing with unstoppable force for some forty kilometers, the Soviet assault ground to a halt on the banks of an insignificant little river called Kollaa. There the Finns had hastily dug defenses which were, until the very end of the war, to withstand daily assaults by numerically vastly superior enemy forces assisted by artillery, armor and aircraft.

The defenders of Kollaa fought one of the most celebrated actions of the war, holding off the attackers for more than three months, supported only by the snow, the temperatures which fell to 40 degrees below zero, and the knowledge that if Kollaa fell the resulting avalanche of Soviet troops might prove impossible to stop.

Erkki Palolampi was an information officer of the Finnish 12th Division and took part in the fighting on the Kollaa front. Published shortly after the war, his book Kollaa kestää - kuvaus Kollaanjoen taisteluista (Kollaa Will Hold - An Account of the Battles of Kollaa River) is one of the all-time classics of Finnish war literature. The author paints a vivid picture of the defenders of Kollaa, of their bravery and sheer refusal to give up in the face of overwhelming odds. From the first frantic rifle shots on the border to the last, nightmarish artillery bombardments on the Hill of the Red House, Erkki Palolampi is our main guide to the Kollaa front.


Kollaa is where the famous battle of 'Killer Hill' (Tappo kukkula)

There have been those that called the Finnish defense of this key region "fanatical", and it was in the Kollaa area were the famous battle of "Killer Hill" took place with 32 Finns battling 4,000 Soviet soldiers.

Heroes like Simo Häyhä (http://www.kevos4.com/Simo_Hayha.htm) and Aarne Juutilainen, the 'terror of Morocco' (http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/images/Talvisota/Rintama/cwdata/4002MarokonKauhunAarneJuutilaisenKomppan ia.html) (He served in the French Foreign Legion before the war, so he was as hard as they come) fought on this front.

This book is begging to be made into a movie.

By the way, the picture in my signature is a Christmas field-sermon conducted on the Kollaa front.

perkele14
Sunday, March 13th, 2005, 02:14 PM
The translations of that book are pretty bad in any language because most of the dialogue is in dialects that cannot be translated. Just watch the film if you're interested, but I don't recommend it, I think it's rather boring.

The whole book was written for the purpose of destroying patriotic myths, and therefore the book includes e.g. a communist man in the Finnish army who constantly complains about everything, and a Russian communist civilian woman in Äänislinna/Petrozavodsk who says the Finns are fascists etc.

You can not argue about matters of taste can you? :)

But, the film being boring..? Maybe it is due to the fact that it is shown on TV every december 6th?

Anyway, Lahtinen still does his job, and does it well despite all the grousing :viking2: I think it has the most wide range of characters and I tend to like the new version for it´s brutal approach.



An account of a "unpatriotic" scene:



Lehto starts escorting a POW to commanding post. Suddenly a gunshot echoes in the air.


Commanding officer and platoon mates rush to the scene.


- What did he do? (liutenant Koskela)

- He died (corporal Lehto)

- Did he try to escape? (ltn)

(no answer, just a stare)

- He was not that sort of a man! (ltn, referring to a lost soviet soldier who had blown himself up with a handgrenade to avoid capture earlier)

- To hell with your sortings! (Lehto)

- He did not try to escape, you shot him from behind! (corporal Hietanen, grabbing Lehto by front)

- From behind! Better from behind than from front. Easier way to do it!

Lehto goes his way while the rest stand astounded by his malice.



Later on a resting point, some men of the platoon exchange thoughts of the episode:


- No-ones going to weep over this, or what?

- Nah, there is a guy pulling lauch-wire and 10 km away another gets hit by
a grenade. "Gentlemen", do not kill unarmed! (sarcastically)

- He was very afraid though..

- That´s because they scare them, and tell that they are shot if they surrender.

- Well, he was not afraid for nothing now was he?

http://www.sea.fi/foto/tuntematon_sotilas85.jpg

Lehto holding the MG, Sihvonen assisting with bulletbelt. 1985 version


edit: Kyllä, tiedän elokuvan (uuden) lopun pakokauhun olevan täyttä potaskaa. (The end of the movie is historically false and incorrect, but politically correct at that time.)

Skildur
Sunday, March 13th, 2005, 09:07 PM
Then another favourite of mine, Russian film Kukushka/Cuckoo/Käki (2002).

http://www.cineforum.bz.it/pellicola/archivio/film/schede/kukushka/img/1542a5.gif

Very... different war movie. Lapland 1944, the end of the Continuation War: Veikko, a Finnish sniper, is left to die by his German comrades, because he is sick of war. Psolty, a Russian officer, is betrayed by his own. Anni, a Saami woman has lived on her own for years because her husband got killed in a war.

These three people are brought together by accident and they have to live together even if no one understands each others. Veikko just wants to live in peace, Psolty wants to kill Veikko and Anni just wants a man and now she has two of them. A lot of misunderstandnings, comical situations, passion and some tragedy.

Very beautifully shot movie, breathtaking landscapes. Worth watching :)

More: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0308476/

http://www.sandrewmetronome.fi/upload/movies/kukushka/xl_kaki1.jpg http://www.sandrewmetronome.fi/upload/movies/kukushka/xl_kaki2.jpg http://www.sandrewmetronome.fi/upload/movies/kukushka/xl_kaki3.jpg

Thanks for the review, I've heard about this movie, but didn't give it a chance yet. Now I will check it out.

Skildur
Sunday, March 13th, 2005, 09:13 PM
BTW, Ville Haapasalo, who starred in Kukushka is very popular here in Russia. He also starred in many Russians movies (
Peculiarities of the National Fishing, Peculiarities of the National Hunt). We call him Russian Finn. ;)

Lissu
Sunday, March 13th, 2005, 09:33 PM
BTW, Ville Haapasalo, who starred in Kukushka is very popular here in Russia. He also starred in many Russians movies (
Peculiarities of the National Fishing, Peculiarities of the National Hunt). We call him Russian Finn. ;)I have heard about that :)

He studied acting in St. Petersburgh. When he returned back to Finland, he had to drive trucks for 4 years as he couldn't get roles because of his Russian education and acting experience. Only after Kukushka and the world wide success he started to get roles in Finnish theater and movies :suomut:

Son of a gun
Sunday, March 13th, 2005, 09:42 PM
@Skildur@

Six or so years ago I saw a war movie on a russian tv-channel. It was about bunch of russian soldiers guarding a checkpoint somewhere in chechenya. It wasn't too much of action packed. They mostly did they day-to-day routines, and once in a while they traded their weaponary to services of local prostitutes etc. However, there was one sniper harvesting their lines, who they were unable to eliminate. At the end this sniper(who were a 14-years oldchechen girl, and one of the prostitutes), sniped a soldier playing with dog.

I didn't understans a word they were saying, but still one of the best movies I've seen. Any idea what this movies name is?

Skildur
Sunday, March 13th, 2005, 09:43 PM
I have heard about that :)

When he returned back to Finland, he had to drive trucks for 4 years as he couldn't get roles because of his Russian education and acting experience.


lol, so he had quite hard way to the fame.

Skildur
Sunday, March 13th, 2005, 09:50 PM
@Skildur@

Six or so years ago I saw a war movie on a russian tv-channel. It was about bunch of russian soldiers guarding a checkpoint somewhere in chechenya. It wasn't too much of action packed. They mostly did they day-to-day routines, and once in a while they traded their weaponary to services of local prostitutes etc. However, there was one sniper harvesting their lines, who they were unable to eliminate. At the end this sniper(who were a 14-years oldchechen girl, and one of the prostitutes), sniped a soldier playing with dog.

I didn't understans a word they were saying, but still one of the best movies I've seen. Any idea what this movies name is?


For my shame, I don't big fan of modern Russian war or bandit movies or serials. There are too much of them, so I just skipping the channel when I see one. Most of them are low-budget with now really good acting and scenario. For ex. I didn't like even "Brigada", most famous in Russia TV serial of the last years. :icon_arro

Son of a gun
Sunday, March 13th, 2005, 09:56 PM
For my shame, I don't big fan of modern Russian war or bandit movies or serials. There are too much of them, so I just skipping the channel when I see one. Most of them are low-budget with now really good acting and scenario. For ex. I didn't like even "Brigada", most famous in Russia TV serial of the last years. :icon_arro

This must've been one of those low-budget movies then. To me, it seemed very realistic depiction of everyday life in war. Very authentic and refreshing.
Very different from hollywoodshit

Skildur
Sunday, March 13th, 2005, 10:01 PM
This must've been one of those low-budget movies then. To me, it seemed very realistic depiction of everyday life in war. Very authentic and refreshing.
Very different from hollywoodshit

Maybe, but when you see such movies everyday on Tv, you get fed up with this realism, and turn on Lord of the Rings and such on the DVD. :bier:

Lissu
Monday, March 28th, 2005, 03:57 PM
Decided to move this thread into appropriate forum ;)

I just wanted to let you know, that I managed to find Talvisota/Winter War (1989) on dvd :beer-smil. And this was the original 3h 10 min version and not the mutilated one that had an entire hour cut off.

Still this movie amazes me, how realistic it is. Even if it's old movie and thus has no modern special effects (mainly just pyrotechnics but they are very skillfully done), Winter War leaves Saving Private Ryan easily behind. It seems that Jewlywood is able to make impressive movies, but what they lack is the truth and respect of history.

http://www.nyt.fi/kuvat/iso_webkuva/1076153549097.jpeg http://ww2.yle.fi/yleshop/images/data/vid_dvdtalvisota_yle_iso.jpg

Death and the Sun
Monday, March 28th, 2005, 06:08 PM
Skildur;

Surely there are some Russian war films you can recommend -- even if they aren't about the wars between Finland and the USSR?

As for Rukajärven tie / Ambush...




The movie is by no means flawless, as it is very Hollywood style and made with quite small budget. The most ridiculous part must be the sex-scene of Perkola and his fiancee, in front of the log-fire, in the middle of the hot summer in a village that has just been burned down! Also the the patrol is far too well equipped and in the real war, they all would have been killed very soon because of the way they moved in hostile land.



I think that scene was copypasted on afterwards to attract a wider female audience. Especially since the man is nude and the woman is almost fully clothed -- the opposite of the usual arrangement. :rolleyes:

Nevertheless, a great war film. My grandpa was there at the time, and although he hated to talk about the war, I did manage to get a one-sentence comment from him about the movie: "no olihan se tollasta rypemistä".

I still have to see a convincing American film about WW2, Europeans just seem to do so much better.

Skildur
Monday, March 28th, 2005, 09:16 PM
Skildur;

Surely there are some Russian war films you can recommend -- even if they aren't about the wars between Finland and the USSR?




Most of them are Soviet ones. My favourite one is "AT DAWN IT’S QUIET HERE..."

"The action takes place during the Great Patriotic War (1941-1945). Russian Karelia, the autumn of 1941. Five anti-aircraft gunner girls, who are mostly under twenty years old, and their commander, Sergeant Vaskov, discover that a German subversive detachment has landed in this, still far-removed from the front line, locale. The information must be delivered to the headquarters. However, the saboteurs have broken communications, cutting off the small group from their own people and leaving them no hope of getting any help. The enemy endeavors to further penetrate into the rear of the Soviet army on a mission to destroy a number of essential facilities. Vaskov and the five girls accept battle, being outnumbered by sixteen Fascists, armed to the teeth..."

http://www.gov.karelia.ru/gov/Different/Culture/kino9.jpg

Death and the Sun
Monday, March 28th, 2005, 09:21 PM
Most of them are Soviet ones. My favourite one is "AT DAWN IT’S QUIET HERE..."

"The action takes place during the Great Patriotic War (1941-1945). Russian Karelia, the autumn of 1941. Five anti-aircraft gunner girls, who are mostly under twenty years old, and their commander, Sergeant Vaskov, discover that a German subversive detachment has landed in this, still far-removed from the front line, locale. The information must be delivered to the headquarters. However, the saboteurs have broken communications, cutting off the small group from their own people and leaving them no hope of getting any help. The enemy endeavors to further penetrate into the rear of the Soviet army on a mission to destroy a number of essential facilities. Vaskov and the five girls accept battle, being outnumbered by sixteen Fascists, armed to the teeth..."

http://www.gov.karelia.ru/gov/Different/Culture/kino9.jpg

Is this film available on Region 2 DVD by any chance?

Now that I think of it, are Russian DVD's region 2?

Skildur
Monday, March 28th, 2005, 09:30 PM
Here is the link http://www.ruscico.com/detail_eng.php?link=3

VonPletz
Friday, April 22nd, 2005, 03:41 AM
the Winter War. Great movie about Finland and Russia.