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Glenlivet
Thursday, October 14th, 2004, 04:34 AM
1. Sissela Kyle
http://svt.se/content/1/c6/10/07/78/prg7_024.jpg

2. Anna Lindh
http://www.dalarna.ssu.se/annalindh.GIF

SouthernBoy
Monday, October 25th, 2004, 01:39 AM
The nasion depression looks moderate. Is this common in Vastmanlandstyps?

Glenlivet
Monday, October 25th, 2004, 07:48 AM
"näsan bildar en tämligen kraftig vinkel mot pannan, är f. ö. kort och ofta något konkav (även hos männen, i regel hos kvinnorna)."
(The nose form a fairly strong angle against the forehead, is besides short and often concave (also among the men, as a rule among the women)

Bertil Lundman, Nordens Rastyper, Rasöversikt. Nordens nuvarande folkstockar, B. Underras: Västmanlandstypen, Stockholm, Alb. Bonniers Boktryckeri, 1940.

"näsan kort, hos männen svagt konkav, rak eller vanligen något vågig, hos kvinnorna i regel svagt konkav och ej särdeles bred (näsindex c. 62-63)"
(short nose, among the men weakly concave, straight or usually somewhat wavy, as a rule weakly concave among the women and not particularly broad (nasal index approx. 62-63)

Bertil Lundman, Dala-Allmogens Antropologi, a) Västmanlandstypen, Almqvist och Wiksells Boktryckeri, Uppsala, 1945.



The nasion depression looks moderate. Is this common in Vastmanlandstyps?

Väring
Tuesday, February 15th, 2005, 05:42 PM
I. N o r d r a s e n (enligt senare undersökningar egentligen sammanfattning av en hel grupp närstående typer: storvuxen f. n. 177-180 cm. i medeltal för män; kvinnor i medeltal nära 12 cm. kortare); smärt med långa ben men korta armar; långskallig (BLI i medeltal c. 74-75 för män, kvinnorna c. en enhet högre) med smal panna och smal ovalt men kraftigt utmodellerat ansikte med lutande profil (A I i medeltal 90-95 hos män c. 2,5 enheter lägre hos kvinnor). Näsan rak eller ofta svagt konkav hos kvinnorna, hos männen rak, ibland svagt konkav men sällan mycket svagt konvex, på insidan särskilt upptill, mycket svagt åsade öron. Ögonen blå till blågrå, rätt glänsande. Håret oftast askblondt ibland dock övergående till kastanjebrunt eller lingult (som hos alla raser blir hårfärgen mörkare med åren) dessutom mjukt och ofta något litet vågigt. Skär hy. Huvudutbredning i nutiden från Östersjöprovinserna til Brittiska öarna och från Nordnorge til mellersta Tyskland (där dock mest väster om Elbe) och nordligaste Frankrike. Inom vårt område kan nordrasen preliminärt indelas på följande sätt:

B. Underras: Västmanlandstypen: lägre kroppslängd (c. 171-172 cm.), särskilt kortare ben, men längre armar (även absolut!) lågt huvud, medelbrett "kupigt" ansikte (A I 85-90) med tämligen svag underkäke, näsan bildar en tämligen kraftig vinkel mot pannan, är f. ö. kort och ofta något konkav (även hos männen, i regel hos kvinnorna). Ögonen ljust gråblå. Utbredning främst Västmanland; f. ö. östra Närke, södra Dalarna samt delar av Östergötland, s. ö. Skåne m. m. i Sverige; östra Norge samt Nyland i Finland.

I. Nordic race (in fact a whole group of related types according to later investigations : tall of stature, the mean length for men is at the moment 177-180 cm; the mean for women is nearly 12 cm shorter); lean with long legs but short arms; long skulled (The mean breadth length index is approximately 74-75 for men, approximately one unit higher for women) with narrow forehead and narrow but strongly chiseled face with an inclined profile (the mean facial index is 90-95 for men, approximately 2,5 units lower for women). The nose is straight or slightly convex in women, straight in men, sometimes slightly concave but rarely slightly convex, sligthly ridged ears on the inside, especially at the upper parts. The eyes are blue to bluish grey, rather shining. The hair is mostly ash-blonde, yet sometimes transcending into chestnut or flaxen ( the hair colour becomes darker with the years as in all races) moreover soft and often somewhat wavy . Pink skin. Main distribution of the present age goes from the Baltic provinces to the British isles, and from northernmost Norway to central Germany (however, mostly west of the Elbe) and northernmost France. The nordic race may in our territory be preliminary divided in the following way:

B. Sub race: Västamanlands type: lower height (approximately 171-172 cm.), in particular shorter legs, but longer arms (for certain, even!) low head, medium broad “cupped” face (FI 85-90) with fairly weak lower jaw, the nose , which forms a rather strong angle towards the forehead, is short and somewhat concave (also among men, as a rule among women). The eyes are light greyish blue. Prevalence : first and foremost Västmanland; moreover eastern Närke, southern Dalecarlia as well as parts of Östergötland, south eastern Scania in Sweden; eastern Norway and Nyland in Finland.

Bertil Lundman (1940), Nordens rastyper.

http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/rastyper-04.htm

Väring
Wednesday, February 16th, 2005, 06:12 PM
Västmanlands types from Djura.

Väring
Wednesday, February 16th, 2005, 06:17 PM
1. Västmanlands type from Gagnef.
2. Västmanlands type from Leksand.

Väring
Thursday, February 17th, 2005, 04:49 PM
Gry Forsell

http://www.aftonbladet.se/foraldrar/0406/22/forsell150.gif

Väring
Friday, February 18th, 2005, 03:16 PM
Agneta Fältskog

http://vnexpress.net/Vietnam/Van-hoa/Am-nhac/2004/06/3B9D3615/9_a.jpg

Väring
Friday, February 18th, 2005, 03:56 PM
Carin Hjulström-Livh

http://svt.se/content/1/c6/16/23/12/carin_skrattar.jpg

Väring
Saturday, February 19th, 2005, 06:13 PM
Sissela Kyle

http://svt.se/content/1/c6/10/07/78/prg7_024.jpg

Väring
Saturday, February 19th, 2005, 06:14 PM
Anna Lind

http://varberg3.iweb.nu/archive/01_bilder/Anna-Lind-170 kopia.jpg

Väring
Saturday, February 19th, 2005, 06:16 PM
Fredrik Ljungberg

http://user.tninet.se/~iql632h/fredrik-ljungberg.jpg

Väring
Monday, February 21st, 2005, 05:27 PM
Bo Lundgren

http://www.riksdagen.se/bilder/ledamotr/HighRes/00001140.JPG

Väring
Monday, February 21st, 2005, 05:28 PM
Ulrika Messing

http://www.idg.se/ArticlePages/200409/07/20040907162329_CS/Ulrika_Messing1.jpg

Väring
Monday, February 21st, 2005, 05:30 PM
Linda Nyberg

http://www.aftonbladet.se/foraldrar/0402/15/linda.jpg

Agrippa
Monday, February 21st, 2005, 06:16 PM
Hmm, I'm not sure whether you showed a consistent type or various types and mixture from Northern Europe.

Väring
Monday, February 21st, 2005, 06:23 PM
Hmm, I'm not sure whether you showed a consistent type or various types and mixture from Northern Europe.

If you don't agree i'm very interested in what types you think my examples belong to.

Agrippa
Monday, February 21st, 2005, 07:15 PM
Maybe its justified to speak of a regional variant which came out of mixture. I dont doubt that, but from the bigger perspective most of the examples look to me like mixed individuals with mainly Dalofaelid, North Alpinoid/Borreby and West Baltid components.

For example her:
http://www.idg.se/ArticlePages/200409/07/20040907162329_CS/Ulrika_Messing1.jpg

She is to me Dalofaelid-North Alpinoid mixed and looks totally different from her:

http://www.aftonbladet.se/foraldrar/0402/15/linda.jpg

Who seems to be Nordid-Dalofaelid-West Baltid mixed.

Same with him:
http://user.tninet.se/~iql632h/fredrik-ljungberg.jpg

Who looks somewhat like Awar from Skadi btw...

So your subtype makes to me only sense if described as a somewhat gracialised Northern Cromagnoid which is going somewhat in a West Baltid direction.

But thats just my first impression...

Väring
Tuesday, February 22nd, 2005, 05:54 PM
So your subtype makes to me only sense if described as a somewhat gracialised Northern Cromagnoid which is going somewhat in a West Baltid direction.

The Västmanlands type is a low-skulled Scando-Nordid, unlike Trönder or West-Baltid, which is high-skulled. Otherwise it is a somewhat gracialised Northern Cromagnoid.

Väring
Tuesday, February 22nd, 2005, 05:55 PM
Rosita Runegrund

http://www.riksdagen.se/bilder/ledamotr/HighRes/00003575.JPG

Agrippa
Tuesday, February 22nd, 2005, 06:07 PM
The Västmanlands type is a low-skulled Scando-Nordid, unlike Trönder or West-Baltid, which is high-skulled. Otherwise it is a somewhat gracialised Northern Cromagnoid.

Accepted as a variant, but you dont think this type is mainly the result of mixture? (Cromagnoid-Baltid)

BTW he's rather high skulled to me.
http://user.tninet.se/~iql632h/fredrik-ljungberg.jpg

Some others, like the one you posted last, have a distinctive look, I can see it.

viking_
Thursday, February 24th, 2005, 08:11 PM
and this one?
http://onfinite.com/libraries/346896/2a0.jpg

Agrippa
Friday, February 25th, 2005, 02:58 PM
Looks to me mostly Cromagnoid, lets say Northern Alpinoid/Borreby with Lappid admixture.

Väring
Friday, February 25th, 2005, 06:33 PM
Lisbeth Åkerman

http://svt.se/content/1/c6/07/53/94/lisbethakerman370_2.jpg

Agrippa
Friday, February 25th, 2005, 07:17 PM
Lisbeth Åkerman

http://svt.se/content/1/c6/07/53/94/lisbethakerman370_2.jpg

Nice one. I would say North Atlantid-Cromagnoid/Dalofaelid.

Väring
Wednesday, March 2nd, 2005, 05:14 PM
Nice one. I would say North Atlantid-Cromagnoid/Dalofaelid.

Indeed she is. By the way, i think her hair is dyed.
What is Dalofaelid? Is it the same as Phalian? Bertil Lundman never found any examples of Phalian presence in Dalecarlia (or elsewhere in Sweden) in spite of
much research.

Väring
Wednesday, March 2nd, 2005, 05:31 PM
and this one?
http://onfinite.com/libraries/346896/2a0.jpg

Phalian.

Agrippa
Wednesday, March 2nd, 2005, 08:15 PM
Indeed she is. By the way, i think her hair is dyed.
What is Dalofaelid? Is it the same as Phalian? Bertil Lundman never found any examples of Phalian presence in Dalecarlia (or elsewhere in Sweden) in spite of
much research.

Yes, though I doubt Lundman had the same definition then if thats true.

Generally Dalofaelids are depigmented Cromagnids with a tall and robust stature, rather broad faces and are dolicho- to mesocephalic.

I wouldnt say you find too much typical Dalofaelids in Sweden, but the element is definitely present there. Though the definition of Dalofaelids might be rather lose for Lundman's terms, he might have used other names for the local Cromagnids.

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3863&stc=1

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3864&stc=1

The girl beside the Nordid man is considered Dalofaelid f.e.:
http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3865&stc=1

Northern Paladin
Wednesday, March 2nd, 2005, 08:17 PM
What's the difference between Dalofalid and Falid? :icon1:

Agrippa
Wednesday, March 2nd, 2005, 08:49 PM
What's the difference between Dalofalid and Falid? :icon1:

There is no real one. Just different names for the same type. You can only argue that Faelid was meant specifically for the type in NW-Germany whereas Dalofaelid is the broader term for all the depigmented Cromagnids of the North.
But Faelid was soon used in the same way anyway...Dalofaelid was just used more often in the modern German literature and illustrates better the general character of the type, not just common in NW Germany...

Väring
Thursday, March 3rd, 2005, 04:56 PM
Accepted as a variant, but you dont think this type is mainly the result of mixture? (Cromagnoid-Baltid)

Do you mean Baltid as in East-Baltid?
I think the Västmanlands type belongs to the low-skulled northwestern racial group, no doubt related to others such as Phalians and Göta types.

Agrippa
Thursday, March 3rd, 2005, 06:18 PM
Do you mean Baltid as in East-Baltid?
I think the Västmanlands type belongs to the low-skulled northwestern racial group, no doubt related to others such as Phalians and Göta types.

No, but rather West Baltid, like you can find especially in the Baltic states. (Gracialised Cromagnid intermediate between Nordid and East Baltid in appearance)

Nordgau
Thursday, March 3rd, 2005, 06:30 PM
What's the difference between Dalofalid and Falid? :icon1:

The "discoverer" of the Phalians, Paudler, baptised them "dalische Rasse" in 1924, after the Swedish region Dalarne ("the valleys"). Günther renamed that subrace a few years later in "fälische Rasse", because he found that type to be more typical for Westphalia.

In the name "dalofälid", put into the discussion by Peters a few years later, both's views live on. "Dalofälid" also is the correect term, if you want to let apply nomenclatorical rules in the sphere of subspecies, because Peters as first wrote down a name for that race in Latin (homo sapiens europaeus dalofaelicus).