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Dr. Brandt
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 10:43 AM
Some things never change, eh?

Napoleons Foreignminister Talleyrand said to Sovary about the Poles: "This Nation is worthless and one can only organize Chaos with them".

:rotfl:


The Memoirs of Baron de Marbot - Volume II
Chapter XXXII

"These partial attacks, which did us, indeed, little harm, became very disagreeable by continued repetition. Many of our sick and wounded were taken and plundered by these marauders, some of whom acquired immense booty. Even from the ranks of our allies, the desire of acquiring wealth raised up new enemies for us—I refer to the Poles. Marshal Saxe, the son of one of their own kings, said rightly that the Poles are the greatest plunderers in the world, and would not respect even their fathers' goods. You may judge whether those who were in our service respected their allies' goods. On the march and in the bivouac they stole all that they could see, but as people began to distrust them, and petty larceny became difficult, they decided to go to work on a large scale. To this end they organized themselves into bands, threw away their helmets, and put on peasants' caps; and, slipping out of the bivouacs after dark, they assembled at an appointed place, and came back to the camp shouting the Cossacks' war-cry of ‘Hourra!' thus terrifying the weaker men, many of whom fled, leaving their effects behind. Then the pretended Cossacks, after pillaging all round, went off, and returned before daylight to their places in the French column, where they resumed the title of Poles, with liberty to become Cossacks again the next night. Attention having been called to this atrocious brigandage, several generals and colonels resolved to punish it. General Maison had such a good look-out kept in the bivouacs of the 2nd corps, that one fine night our outposts surprised some fifty Poles just as they were making up to play their part of sham Cossacks, and were on the point of giving their 'Hourra! ' as pillagers. Seeing themselves surrounded on all sides, the brigands had the impudence to say that they had meant to play a practical joke, but, as it was neither the place nor the time for joking, General Maison had them all shot then and there. It was some time before we saw any more robbers of that sort, but they re-appeared later on."

Stig NHF
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 02:43 PM
And without them Europa would be a Turanid continent today. Wien 1683 ring any bells?

Dr. Brandt
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 03:24 PM
And without them Europa would be a Turanid continent today. Wien 1683 ring any bells?

Where would you be if you would read some books?



And here we have it again: Polaks to buisy plundering and stealing, letting the Turks get away and the Germans doing the fighting.



Here I must recall Brigette Pohl's description, published in the "Deutsche Wochen Zeitung" no. 9 of 2 March 1979, of the noble Polish chronicle of Jan Sobieski and his movement to Vienna. It is worth recalling, even if only in excerpts, since it shows why the Poles always blame the Germans in connection with the battles against the Turks at Vienna, saying "the thieves didn't even say 'thank you'". The Poles always reveal their own character defects in attempting to accuse the Germans.

The "brave Polish king" remained behind with his comrades, far removed from the blood of battle at all times, at a safe distance from the battlefield. He knew just where to hide -- in the Vienna woods, at Dreimarkstein, where no Turk was to be seen or could even be expected for miles around...

Far behind the front line, the noble Sobieski was right up front: on Bald Mountain, ministering to the Papal nuntio Marco D'Aviano and reading Mass. Then he once again withdrew, leaving it to the Germans to defeat the Turks. He must have been about as peace-loving as the Soviet Union today. Again and again, the Germans attempted to pursuade the Polish nobleman to move forward to intervene. But in vain. He had letters to write to his noble wife, who wanted to know how much loot he would bring back. He replied that he and his son Jakob would quite certain to run no risk of danger.

This was while the Germans fought and died in fierce combats around Heiligenstadt, in Nussdorf, and Grinzing. The generals were wounded, the brothers Moritz of Duke Croy fell at Nudsdorf, the Duke himself was severely wounded. Prince Eugene, later to become famous, won his first laurels here, in the service of Germany; none spared himself. Streams of blood flowed over the famous wine region of Grinzing. Only the Poles held back, "biding their time...

But when they considered the battle safely won, oh, then they broke cover, since of course they wanted to be the first to divide the spoils. But they failed to reckon with the Pascha of Ofen, Ibrahim, who broke forth upon the Poles at the edge of the city of Dornbach, so that the Poles, crying for help -- this is reported by the chronlicler Diani, who is very well disposed towards Sobieski -- ran away in large numbers.

Count Ludwig of Baden then attacked with two of his Imperial dragoon regiments, and succeeded in rolling back the Turkish line of battle.

Duke Charles of Lorraine gained the victory by undertaking a daring wheeling movement with doubling and flanking movements. The road to the surrounded city of Vienna now lay open. The chronicler reports: "Our cavalry was too heavy to keep on their "the Turks'" heels. That of the king "Sobieski" was, of course, lighter; he, however, abandoned the attempt at pursuit due to other considerations" (!) For the Poles, in particular, their greatest hour had come: while the Germans buried their dead, cared for their wounded, comforted distraught and desperate refugees from the burning outlying villages of Vienna, and sought in vain to pursue the Turks with their heavy cavalry, the good Sobieski made himself at home in the tent of the Great Vizier and "gave his Polish army and accompanying hordes the order to plunder."
Thus the legend of "the brave King Sobieski" and his equally brave army is disproven on the basis of historical fact.

-----

Translator's note: The 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica disputes this, but depicts Sobieski as a traitor in the pay of Louis XIV: "He died a broken-hearted man, prophecying the inevitable ruin of a nation which he himself had done so much to demoralize."

-----

Sobieski's behaviour is strikingly similar to that of the Polish Marshal in the last war, Rydz-Smigly, who naturally wished to be depicted in an equestrian victor's pose before the wings of the Brandenburg Gate in the summer of 1939, but who, when the war which he demanded actually came about, rapidly left his troops in the lurch and fled to a foreign country (Roumainia).

Polish bravery was -- and is -- simply a legend, just like their honesty. Why would they need to call the Germans robbers and plunderers at all times if they didn't need to distract attention from their own misdeeds?
Plundering the treasures of the Great Vizier Kara Mustafa at Vienna can hardly have been so unprofitable as not to be worth fighting for. But this must not be admitted; attention must therefore be diverted towards the ungrateful Germans.

Stig NHF
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 05:12 PM
Ah well, no need for personal attacks :) You just keep up your unproductive fellow-European bashing and see how far that gets you. You better hurry get out of the way so that you don't get rolled over by the German panzers invading Poland in the close future :laugh:

Syfon
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 05:23 PM
Where would you be if you would read some books?



And here we have it again: Polaks to buisy plundering and stealing, letting the Turks get away and the Germans doing the fighting.

This is Goebbels propaganda.

NormanBlood
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 05:30 PM
Watch out you two, or you may be accused of being "anti-German":P;)

Syfon
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 05:30 PM
http://www.branica.com/wwwinfo/index.php?title=Battle_of_Vienna


The Battle of Vienna (as distinct from the Siege of Vienna some hundred-fifty years earlier), marked the final turning point in a 250-year struggle between the forces of Christian Europe and the Islamic Ottoman Empire. Over the 16 years following the battle (the so-called Great Turkish war), the Turks would be permanently driven south of the Danube River, never to threaten central Europe again.

The battle, which took place on September 12, 1683 pitted a large Austrian and German army of about 100,000 troops and their allies, a 30,000-man relief force under Jan Sobieski, King of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, against their Turkish besiegers. The Turks, commanded by Pasha Kara Mustafa, numbered approximately 140,000 men, although a large portion of them played no part in the battle.

Before the siege, the Viennese had demolished many of the houses around the city walls and cleared the debris, leaving an empty plain that would leave the Turks vulnerable to defensive fire if they were to rush the city. Kara Mustafa solved that problem by ordering his forces to dig long lines of trenches directly towards the city to help protect them from the defenders as they advanced towards it. A goal of this digging was to decrease the stability of the walls around Vienna. Additionally, the siege of the Turks disabled virtually every food supply into Vienna, and the population was starving. (A good example of this can been seen by the Viennese cavalry, which had to start killing their own horses for food. After the Turks were driven away later, many horse thefts were reported by the polish army.)

Sobieski began planning a relief expedition to Vienna during the summer of 1683, when the hard-pressed Turks launched an all-out offensive against Austria. The two nations had been embroiled in conflict for more than 150 years, and Mustafa's assault was an attempt to put a final end to this. Starting in March, the Turks moved toward the city, and finally invested it on July 14. The previous winter, Austria and Poland had concluded a treaty in which the Austrian Emperor would support Sobieski if the Turks attacked Kraków; in return, the Poles would support Austria if Vienna were attacked.

The Polish king honored his obligations to the letter, going so far as to leave his own nation virtually undefended. He covered this with a stern warning to Imre Thököly, the leader of Hungary (then an Ottoman satellite), whom he threatened with destruction if he tried to take advantage of the situation.

Mustafa's men had managed to take part of the walls of Vienna by exploding mines under them, but he inexplicably did not make dispositions to defend against Sobieski even after learning of his arrival. At 4 in the morning on September 12, the Austrian army on the left and the German forces in the center moved forward against the Turks. Mustafa launched a counterattack with most of his force. Then the Polish infantry launched a massive assault on the right flank. After 12 hours of fighting, Sobieski's men held the high ground on the right.

At about 5 in the afternoon, four cavalry groups, one of them German-Austrian and the other three Polish heavy cavalry (Hussars), 20,000 men in all, led by the Polish king, charged down the hills. In the confusion, they made straight for the Ottoman camps, while the Vienna garrison sallied out of its defenses and joined in the assault. In less than three hours, the battle was won, as the Turks beat a hasty retreat to the south and east. Although no one realized it at the time, the entire war was won that day, as well. The Ottomans fought on for another 16 years before giving up, losing vast territories in the process.

The Turks lost about 15,000 men in the fighting, compared to approximately 4,000 for the allied Christian forces.

Dr. Brandt
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 05:38 PM
Watch out you two, or you may be accused of being "anti-German":P;)

I would say that is already an established FACT!

Syfon
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 05:43 PM
Dr. Brandt, why You hatred Poles?

Dr. Brandt
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 05:45 PM
This is Goebbels propaganda.

Thats right Polak, the chronlicler Diani used his time machine to propell himself into the future and get some advice from Dr. Goebbels and then returned to write a falsefied history of the battle of Vienna.
It wasn't Charles of Loraine or Count Ludwig of Baden, nor Prince Eugen who beat the Turks. It was soley the noble Polaks who - as we all know - win every War they fight in. :rotfl:
And Baron de Marbot and Talleyrand are of course also just spreading lies.

Thieves then, Thieves now, Thieves for ever more!


Dr. Brandt, why You hatred Poles?

Check your Historybooks and you might find the answer!

I invite you to our German section to ask anyone there what they think of Poles. I am not alone. :biggrin:

k0nsl
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 05:56 PM
This is Goebbels propaganda.

No it is not. Ever heard of Else Löser? Read anything written by her. What the Poles are thought are mostly sad lies. Else Löser described this in a writing translated by Carlos Porter; The Image of the Germans in Polish Literature

See for example:
http://www.cwporter.com/image.htm

:)

-k0nsl

Constantinus
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 06:19 PM
Talleyrand was one of the most intelligent politicians of his day, he knew what he was talking about.

Also, I can't help but notice that the Polaks have only known it 4 ways since 1800:

being France's bitch
being Prussia's/Germany's bitch
being Russia's/soviet bitch
being England's/America's puppetstate

Constantinus
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 06:29 PM
Damn, I forgot, they were Austria's bitch too.

Dr. Brandt
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 07:13 PM
Talleyrand was one of the most intelligent politicians of his day, he knew what he was talking about.

Also, I can't help but notice that the Polaks have only known it 4 ways since 1800:

being France's bitch
being Prussia's/Germany's bitch
being Russia's/soviet bitch
being England's/America's puppetstate

When Napoleon asked the ex polish General Kosciuszko to join him, he answered that he is well aware of the lazyness and the undecent charakter of his own people, that he could hope that they would rise for their own liberation, even if they had the help of France.

General Marbot writes in his recolections


Above all, he doubted the constancy of the Poles, who, after dragging him into war with the three most powerful of the northern nations, might perhaps fail to deliver their promised support. The Emperor therefore replied to these propositions that he would not recognise the kingdom of Poland until the inhabitants of these huge areas had shown themselves worthy of independence by rising against their oppressors.

.......The need to maintain order in the provinces occupied by the army led the Emperor, in spite of everything, to appoint prefects and sub-prefects who were chosen from the most enlightened Poles, but their administration was illusory and no help to the French army.


....My old servant, Woirland, had asked leave to stay in Spain, hoping to make his fortune in a canteen, and I had replaced him when I left Salamanca by a Pole named Lorenz Schilkowski. He had been an Austrian uhlan and was not lacking in wits, but was a drunkard like all the Poles......


......The Emperor ordered General Montbrun and Colonel Pire, Berthier's aide-de-camp, to charge with the 80 Polish light horsemen who formed his duty escort. This charge was stopped almost immediately. When Colonel Pire informed Napoleon that it was impossible to take the pass with cavalry, Napoleon exploded and "...violently striking the pommel of his saddle he exclaimed: 'How, impossible? I do not know the word! There should not be anything impossible for my Poles!" General Walther, the commander of the Guard, advised Napoleon that his infantry was moving up the steep hills on either side of pass, and would soon outflank the Spanish positions. To which Napoleon replied "Impossible! What! My guards stopped by peasants! By armed bands!" He then ordered Philippe de Segur "...Go at once, make my Poles charge, make them take everything, or bring me back prisoners!"

........Very soon, in spite of our clamour and the detonation of so many arms, I could distinguish behind me the sound of smart reports followed by groans, with the thud of falling men and horses, which made me foresee defeat. Our warlike cries were becoming lost in the cries of pain of the unfortunate Poles.......







Im begining to like this Baron de Marbot more and more! :rofl:

>>he doubted the constancy of the Poles, who, after dragging him into war with the three most powerful of the northern nations, might perhaps fail to deliver their promised support<<

LOL - Couldn't the french have learned from their history in 1939? They should have read their Marbot before being suckerd by these "Drunkards" into a War.



Why do you hate me?

I don't hate you as a person......yet.... :biggrin:

Loki
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 07:29 PM
Dr Brandt, feel free to continue posting your "research", but mind the insults to fellow members. :annoysigr

Hagalaz
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 07:35 PM
Are the Poles to blame for the self hating Germans out there today indulging in non-traditional sub-culture? Are the Poles to blame for all the Germans out there not giving a hoot about their ancestors? Or I suppose the Poles are to blame for the massive immigration of Turks into Germany and the future of a racial mixing disaster? Will you still blame the Poles when your culture is dead and gone and all that's left is a Turkish/German blend?

Maybe then you'd realize that instead of wasting your time hating Poles all your life, you could have done something wonderful and uniting for your folk. Hey, maybe you'll even realize that the chances for another third reich are slim to none.

As for you Stig, you have my upmost respect! You are a fine minded Germanic kinsman!

Dr. Brandt
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 07:41 PM
Are the Poles to blame for the self hating Germans out there today indulging in non-traditional sub-culture? Are the Poles to blame for all the Germans out there not giving a hoot about their ancestors? Or I suppose the Poles are to blame for the massive immigration of Turks into Germany and the future of a racial mixing disaster? Will you still blame the Poles when your culture is dead and gone and all that's left is a Turkish/German blend?

Maybe then you'd realize that instead of wasting your time hating Poles all your life, you could have done something wonderful and uniting for your folk. Hey, maybe you'll even realize that the chances for another third reich are slim to none.

As for you Stig, you have my upmost respect! You are a fine minded Germanic kinsman!

Whats your whining Rant got to do with Baron de Marbot?
Yeah, thats right - Nothing!

Now take your Horse oh mighty polish cavalrist or I shall call for some spanish peasants to show you the way.... :biggrin:

Zyklop
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 07:44 PM
Maybe then you'd realize that instead of wasting your time hating Poles all your life, you could have done something wonderful and uniting for your folk.

There is so much hate in me, the Turks alone simply aren´t enough to hate. :biggrin:

Hagalaz
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 07:51 PM
Whats your whining Rant got to do with Baron de Marbot?
Yeah, thats right - Nothing!

Now take your Horse oh mighty polish cavalrist or I shall call for some spanish peasants to show you the way.... :biggrin:


You're just in denial that Germans are headed in all directions but progressive, and you wish the Poles were to blame, but sadly enough, in your case, that is not true.

Dr. Brandt
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 07:52 PM
There is so much hate in me, the Turks alone simply aren´t enough to hate. :biggrin:

Amen mein Volksgenosse! :biggrin:

The Turks and other foreigners are the poison that should ruin our blood and soil.
the Polaks are part of the "Coalition of Prisonguards" that keep Germany enslaved and "in cheque".


You're just in denial that Germans are headed in all directions but progressive, and you wish the Poles were to blame, but sadly enough, in your case, that is not true.

You are not even polish. You are a Yank. so why don't you mind your own buisness?
We know where we are heading and we know who is to blame and we also know that "we" are also to blame for it today!
But we also know how it came about and who is sitting on OUR land and who MURDERED OUR PEOPLE.
But never mind all that. This is about what the FRENCH thought of Polaks. And funny thing is, they made the same experiance like anyone else who had the misfortune of having to deal with them.

Hagalaz
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 08:09 PM
You are not even polish. You are a Yank.

I am descended from Poland, generations dating back centuries. I will return someday and defend what is sacred.


This is about what the FRENCH thought of Polaks. And funny thing is, they made the same experiance like anyone else who had the misfortune of having to deal with them.

As if there aren't anti-English or anti-German feelings dating back in the history of France? I don't see your point. Just another attempt at making cheap shots against Poland.

Dr. Brandt
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 08:16 PM
I am descended from Poland, generations dating back centuries. I will return someday and defend what is sacred.

Descendant from Poland? And thats why you have an irish Atavar and an irish flag! :rolleyes:

Would it help much if I state that you have my sympathys and I feel sorry for you?

Defend what and against whom? LOL - you would be willing to follow the orders of polish officers? :rotfl:
Hahahaha! You could just as well jump off a skyscraper! Hahaha!





As if there aren't anti-English or anti-German feelings dating back in the history of France? I don't see your point. Just another attempt at making cheap shots against Poland.

Oh yeah? Well that isn't the subject here, now is it? So whats your problem? Is Baron de Marbot a liar? Did General Masion kill some poor and inocen Polaks who were just playing a "practical joke"? Is it untrue that they are "Drunkards" and thieves? Is it just a big conspiracy of the entire world..... or do they just describe what they see?

NormanBlood
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 08:29 PM
Brandt, before making such accusations with historical texts such as these, at least learn how to interpret a text not only with analysis of the material given but of the social/political situation at the time it was written. Bias occurs on both sides and it is a matter of detecting it whether the result pleases you or not. History isn't for you to make up as you go along. Are Poles drunkards and thieves? Are all Russians drunks? Do Germans sit around eating sauerkraut all day? Are the French always in surrender? Do Scots run around in kilts? Need I go on? Drunkards and thieves exist among the Poles as they exist in EVERY nation. I'm sure I could say the same about the English if I went and did so-called "research" with a bias in that anything anyone says which agrees with my opinion "MUST be true"...unfortunately that is NOT the case in history.

Hagalaz
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 08:29 PM
Descendant from Poland? And thats why you have an irish Atavar! :rolleyes:

I am partly Polish and partly Irish. I am loyal to both lands but my heart will always lie in the beauty of Poland.


Defend what and against whom? LOL - you would be willing to follow the orders of polish officers? :rotfl:
Hahahaha! You could just as well jump off a skyscraper! Hahaha!

In case you haven't noticed, Europe as a whole is crumbling, becoming more and more Americanized and less and less traditional. It needs strong minded men, with a serious mind-set, willing to stand up and fight for the survival of culture and blood. And no I wouldn't obey a Polish officer just as you wouldn't follow the beliefs of your government. Is it truly necessary I put these things into perspective for you? Can you not see the hypocrisy?




Oh yeah? Well that isn't the subject here, now is it? So whats your problem?

My problem is that you continuously create threads to insult Poland, with no other intent.

Zyklop
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 08:41 PM
Do Germans sit around eating sauerkraut all day? Are the French always in surrender? Do Scots run around in kilts? Are all Russians drunks?
No, these are just stereotypes.


Are Poles drunkards and thieves? Ever met a Pole? ;)

Dr. Brandt
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 08:48 PM
Brandt, before making such accusations with historical texts such as these, at least learn how to interpret a text not only with analysis of the material given but of the social/political situation at the time it was written. Bias occurs on both sides and it is a matter of detecting it whether the result pleases you or not. History isn't for you to make up as you go along. Are Poles drunkards and thieves? Are all Russians drunks? Do Germans sit around eating sauerkraut all day? Are the French always in surrender? Do Scots run around in kilts? Need I go on? Drunkards and thieves exist among the Poles as they exist in EVERY nation. I'm sure I could say the same about the English if I went and did so-called "research" with a bias in that anything anyone says which agrees with my opinion "MUST be true"...unfortunately that is NOT the case in history.

What gives you the idea that the folkcharacter of these people is not exactly the same as it was back then?
What a bunch of low down crimminals to rob and plunder their own comrades. And not a single incident - they all did it. 50 (fifty!) were shot.
And why is it that during communist Poland they had a special intelligence unit that would organize robberys in Westgermany, looting mansions ect. and bringing the booty back to Poland?
And why is it that the "new Poland" is just as crimminal and full of thieves?
Are todays spinless and hypersensetive Germans just malicious when they claim of their stolen cars: "Kaum gestohlen, schon ind Polen". Not to forget the grand scale theft in the years 1919-21 from Germany, Ukraine and Russia and 1945 from Germany again.
Do you see a pattern? If not, then you are blind. These observations are consistant throughout the ages and centurys.
I always thought the French, especialy the republican French had positive feelings about the Polaks. Thats why these comments of Baron de Marbot about his ALLIES are so refreshing and......true.

There is simply NO REASON AT ALL for Germans to have the slightes sympathy with Polaks. None. Nill. Zilch.




Ever met a Pole? ;)

I remember when I was driving with a comrade through Silesia to visit the Annaberg and Glewitz and Gross Rosen Camp. At 10 in the morning you could see polak workers sitting on the roadside smoking and drinking, empty vodka bottles and beercans scattered at the side of the road.
We had a wonderfull laugh seeing how our "sterotypes" were being confirmed. "Polnische Wirtschaft".

Zvaci
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 08:50 PM
We, the Croats look at Poles like this:

Poor and un-galant people, with lowsy cars that come to our coast and bring their own tins of pate and beans and do not spend a dime on something in here... Probably that will stay the same even after they get ritch by plundering Germans inside EU. I remember Poles during the 80's when the Iron Curtain was not so tight anymore. They sold cheep tires, bike pumps, pipes, fur-coats, tools, spare parts of east-Euro cars and other cheep east-Euro products at our local marketplaces.

Zyklop
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 08:53 PM
There is simply NO REASON AT ALL for Germans to have the slightes sympathy with Polaks. None. Nill. Zilch.
And interesting enough, no German actually likes Poles or wants to have anything to do with them. Even the Jews have friends over here.

henerte1
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 09:06 PM
I'm Polish (came here from pure curiosity). I know one German that actually likes Poles. It was my girlfriend when I lived in USA

Syfon
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 09:07 PM
Zitat von NormanBlood "Do Germans sit around eating sauerkraut all day? Are the French always in surrender? Do Scots run around in kilts? Are all Russians drunks?"

No, these are just stereotypes.




Zitat:
"Are Poles drunkards and thieves?"

Ever met a Pole? ;)

This also just only stereotype.

Zyklop
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 09:08 PM
I'm Polish (came here from pure curiosity). I know one German that actually likes Poles. It was my girlfriend when I lived in USAAn emigrated German?

henerte1
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 09:09 PM
We, the Croats look at Poles like this:

Poor and un-galant people, with lowsy cars that come to our coast and bring their own tins of pate and beans and do not spend a dime on something in here... Probably that will stay the same even after they get ritch by plundering Germans inside EU. I remember Poles during the 80's when the Iron Curtain was not so tight anymore. They sold cheep tires, bike pumps, pipes, fur-coats, tools, spare parts of east-Euro cars and other cheep east-Euro products at our local marketplaces.


We, the Poles look at Croats like that:
-beautiful country
-beautiful women
-a bit nationalistic
-slavic nation, slavic language
-Goran Bregovic
-they play soccer, handball, volleyball, basketball very well

Loki
Wednesday, January 19th, 2005, 09:09 PM
I hope Dr Brandt has now finished doing his "research". This thread bores me to death, and I think members should keep themselves busy with other, more intellectually stimulating discussions.

Thread locked. :icon_wink