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Nordhammer
Saturday, January 8th, 2005, 05:28 AM
(So much for hybrid vigor. Now if we could only implement this as well.)

AFP, Dec. 19

New Delhi—Indian scientists have carried out vasectomies on scores of cross-bred lions, the results of experiments to create new sub-species, to let them die out in a “controlled extinction”.

All 300 captive animals, a mix of Asian and African lions many of whom are deformed and diseased, are expected to be dead by 2008, scientists said.

“The law of the land does not allow for mercy killing or culling,” said Bipul Chakravarty, a senior scientist of India’s Central Zoo Authority which devised the programme.

Indian authorities say the animals were cross-bred until 1992 in free-for-all experiments, weakening the genetic pool of Indian cats.

The experiments even extended to mating lions with tigers.

“Until we made guidelines 12 years ago, some were experimenting, producing ‘Tigons’ by mating tigers with lionesses and ‘Litigons’ by crossing lions with tigresses. None of these are now living,” the wildlife scientist told AFP.

As problems of cross-breeding became apparent, “Zoos with hybrids were asked to take population control measures as these animals have no conservation value at all,” the wildlife scientist said.

The national zoo watchdog sterilised all its 300 hybrid outcasts between 1999 and 2001 to ensure no new so-called “cocktail lions” were born, and stepped up a campaign for captive breeding of India’s pure Asiatic lions.

“Most of these cocktail lions are adults and we’re looking at another four years for the stock to end but we’re not denying them any animal welfare facilities. They will die a natural death,” Chakravarty said.

Zoo authorities have evolved stringent laws on mating at India’s 161 state-run zoos and safari parks as part of the national cleanup of animal gene banks.

Officials at the Ministry of Environment and Wildlife said the process was being kept under a microscope.

“It may sound politically incorrect but it’s a controlled exinction programme to set right the chaos that occurred in the 1980s when African lions rescued from circuses mixed with the Asiatic cats in our zoos,” a senior ministry official, who did not wish to be named, said.

The cocktail lions have lower immunity and are prone to disease. Many are in a poor physical state with dull coats and thin manes, suffering from a variety of ailments caused by inbreeding.

But in the early years, the genetic problems of the crossed species did not show up, and many were bred so there would be more cats available for exhibition at zoos and safari parks.

Chatbir Park, near the northern city of Chandigarh, holds 30 hybrid lions which belong to an original litter of an unhealthy pride produced by African lions mating with Asiatic types, ministry officials said.

“Their population increased manifold especially in Chatbir so we asked Central Zoo Authority to take action to prevent proliferation of the hybrids,” Chakravarty said. Chatbir Zoo was at the centre of a key breeding programme.

“Now we’re waiting for them to die out so we can replace them with pure Asiatic stock,” Chakravarty said of the zoo, where many of the diseased lions can barely let out a growl, let alone lead a charge.

There are 131 pure-bred Asiatic lions in 58 zoos and national safaris—- their number having swollen by 50 in the past decade because of an accelerated captive breeding programme, Central Zoo Authority officials said.

Some 380 Asiatic lions, smaller than the African variety, roam the wild while about 300 hybrids are segregrated in facilities including New Delhi’s reknowned Purana Quila zoological park.

“Although the two hybrid lions we have are sterilised, we’re not taking chances and we’re keeping them segregated,” said Ram Babu, a Delhi zoo warden.

cosmocreator
Saturday, January 8th, 2005, 07:23 AM
I've said long ago, more on intutition than anything, that mixed breeds eventually die out. Referring to the mixing of Neanderthal with Cro Magnons.

Loki
Saturday, January 8th, 2005, 09:14 AM
Great article that can be used to argue against human miscegenation too!

lei.talk
Sunday, March 20th, 2005, 03:28 AM
persons that belong to the american kennel club (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Kennel_Club),
the 4H club (http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ces/4H/pubs/ProjectGuide/AnimalProjects.htm) or otherwise practice animal-husbandry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_husbandry)

understand that all of the excellent modern breeds
are the result of in-line back-breeding of stock

- not the product of mongrelization.

one does not improve one's stock
by breeding out of line.

Loki
Sunday, March 20th, 2005, 10:28 AM
More significantly, Asian and African lions are not two different species - they are a single species ( Panthera leo ), and are only two different sub-species (races).

norda
Wednesday, March 23rd, 2005, 10:57 PM
More significantly, Asian and African lions are not two different species - they are a single species ( Panthera leo ), and are only two different sub-species (races).

Some interesting notes on racial mixing
"ON THE PLURALITY OF CIVILISATIONS" F.Koneczny, London 1962
p.124

(...)Among men, experience confirms a thousand-fold that the brunette passes on his features more strongly than the blonde, and the negro twice as strongly as the white. Wernick showed how children of a Japanese woman and a German tend to be delicate, while the offspring of a Japanese woman and a Frenchman may be healthier than those of two Japanese parents.
There are crossings which are unfertile or productive of weaklings. Schwalbe asserts that no damage is done by blood-changes between mouse and rat, rabbit and hare, animals close to each other, but they are very harmful between more distant animals, for example the cat and guinea-pig. Adametz, the biggest name in the field of scientific research on cattle-rearing, asserts that bastard species are usually sterile.
Breeding problems require time for settlement. Breeders long thought that crossing reinforced parental characteristics, with preponderance of good points over faults. They were misled by the evident vigour of such mixtures, which recent investigation only confirms, adding interesting details. Bastards of lion and tiger are larger and heavier than either parent. Offspring of guinea fowl and hen of a fighting breed reveal exceptional aggressiveness. Cramp's rats, deliberately inbred, were famous. Mixtures are considerably more resilient under all kinds of hardship, especially where the bloodmixture is less than half. But when the experiments have a little time behind them, it proves that the vigour lasts barely a generation and then ends, and is even succeeded by enfeeblement. Moreover, bastards prove unfertile, sometimes totally, as in the case of mules. Mules live a hundred years, but never produce another mule. It has also been discovered that bastards often go wild. Pig-bastards are known for this. In Patagonia bastards of the sheep-dog went wild and seized the sheep they were supposed to guard.
Among people more or less the same mixture sometimes produces different results. For example, cross-breeding of Norwegians and Lapps does not lead to any improvement of the race, but on the contrary: "In truth, it is rare for anything good to come of it; most commonly this mixed blood brings to the surface only negative features". Apparently in Brazil, a certain section of those of mixed Portuguese and coloured blood, the so-called caboclos, constitute a truly lamentable type. "Today in the neighbourhood of Horretes or Paranagua there are no Indians at all, but there are very few people who do not have in their veins a certain percentage of Red Indian blood. Round Horretes and in the whole coastal area the caboclos are physically miserable, tormented by venereal diseases (inherited from the Indians?) and unfitted for life". But we know from other sources that there is no lack of physically highly successful Spanish-Indian crossings (the Mexicans, for instance). Nor is there any lack of healthy mestizos in Brazil. Indian blood may be recognised by the "straight. hard, blue-black hair, broad face and melancholy glance of the passerby in the streets of the port of Paranagua.
Mendelianism strictly defines the hereditary bounds of features, of various kinds, but it does not answer the question what the conditions are either for fertility, lasting or of short-duration, or for sterility. Presumably the case is the same as with animals: related racial types produce for the greater part good results from crossing; distant types. on the other hand, for the greater part give unfortunate results.
Julian Talko-Hryncewicz found that this was the position in the Turanian East, on whose peoples he was the greatest expert. Crosses between Chinese men and Mongolian women produce excellent results, creating for example in Urda "a handsome . . . intelligent type". Children from unions between Chinese men and Buryat women, but "particularly" Mongolian women, resemble Spaniards. On the other hand, unfavourable results follow the union of Chinese men and Russian women, who "stand racially at a greater distance".(...)

http://sci.pam.szczecin.pl/~fasting/files/download/Koneczny/A4.doc

lei.talk
Thursday, March 24th, 2005, 02:28 AM
Loki
"...they are a single species ( Panthera leo ),
and are only two different sub-species (races)."

norda
"Bastards of lion and tiger are larger
and heavier than either parent."

not all lion/tiger cross-breeds are improvements.

the female lion and the male tiger
carry the gene that limits the size of their off-spring.

consequently,
male lion to female tiger crosses are improvements;
whereas,
male tiger to female tigers produce
sickly and diseased runts.

i am very familiar with the breeding of animals.

other than http://sci.pam.szczecin.pl/~fasting...Koneczny/A4.doc
can any one recommend any other sources
regarding the product of cross-breeding
the human sub-species?