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Northern Paladin
Monday, December 20th, 2004, 03:54 AM
Do You Celebrate Christmas? If so how?

I along with my family have been celebrating Christmas for as long as I can remember. We celebrate Christmas like just about every other American family. We set up Christmas decorations we don't go overboard just a few Holly Wreaths and a Christmas tree. Of course we give each other presents which is one of my favorite parts. I like giving them even better than receiving them.

Christmas is one of those times when I get to see my relatives all under the same roof, eating at the same table. Christmas is one of my favorite seasons in the year no doubt. My favorite Christmas's are one's where everything is covered in a thick layer of snow. I've always been a fan of winter sports and making snow men with my younger cousins and nephews and nieces.

And that's how I celebrate Christmas.

jcs
Monday, December 20th, 2004, 04:30 AM
I've always celebrated Christmas with my family, and I hope I always will. There's no hope for any of them--especially the older ones--becoming heathens, so I just let them go on celebrating a heathen holiday unknowingly. This time of the year is when families get together and celebrate their traditions--I love it.
Yesterday, I visited my father's side of the family (Swedish descent) where we cought up on the events of eachothers' lives (we don't see eachother often) and gave gifts to the younger children (there are too many people for us all to exchange presents).
On Christmas day, I decorate a tree (except this year, we had to use some damn plastic thing because of the bullshit fire-code in the appartment I live in), eat some ham, and exchange gifts with my immediate family before visiting my extended family on the German side. There, we each give a gift to our grandparents (we all pitch in) and exchange presents with a person whose name we drew from a lottery on Thanksgiving.

k0nsl
Monday, December 20th, 2004, 04:55 AM
Always. It's a deep rooted tradition where I live.

-k0nsl

friedrich braun
Monday, December 20th, 2004, 05:03 AM
Always.

I've got Christian clergymen in my family.

cosmocreator
Monday, December 20th, 2004, 06:20 AM
I was thinking about asking the same question.

The best thing about Christmas is my childhood memories. I don't participate in it in anyway now.

Perun
Monday, December 20th, 2004, 04:42 PM
I celebrate Christmas for two reasons:
1) Its a holiday and my family is largely Christian
2) It's my birthday :biggrin:

Allenson
Tuesday, December 21st, 2004, 04:11 PM
Yes, my family and I have always celebrated Christmas. My family is rather secular so the whole JC thing was never a big deal. We didn't have any Nativity scene or anything--but lots of boughs, wreaths, holly and of course, a tree.

It was a time to get together with family, exchange some gifts, drink egg-nog (;)), go cross-country skiing or skating on the local pond....

Eiserner Adler
Tuesday, December 21st, 2004, 05:31 PM
For all those of you who only observe the secular aspects, I wouldn't really call that 'Christmas'. Trees, decorations, Santa Claus and gift exchanging are all European in nature.

NSFreja
Tuesday, December 21st, 2004, 08:12 PM
Depends on what you mean with celebration...

My family just eat traditional swedish christmasdinner and then give the kids their presents nothing more...

No tree, no decoration, no Santa Claus...etc..

/M

Northern Paladin
Tuesday, December 21st, 2004, 08:16 PM
Depends on what you mean with celebration...

My family just eat traditional swedish christmasdinner and then give the kids their presents nothing more...

No tree, no decoration, no Santa Claus...etc..

/M

Sounds like a celebration to me. Though you didn't exactly go all out.

Do many Swedes still celebrate Saint Lucia day in Sweden?

NSFreja
Tuesday, December 21st, 2004, 08:19 PM
Sounds like a celebration to me. Though you didn't exactly go all out.

Do many Swedes still celebrate Saint Lucia day in Sweden?Yes, many do celebrat Lucia on 13th december here in Sweden.

I don't do it but many many are doing it...Lucia-day are just as all other days for me

/M

Northern Paladin
Tuesday, December 21st, 2004, 08:23 PM
Yeah St.Lucia day is an uniquely Swedish holiday. It's a shame it's gone so Multicultural nowadays.

Nightmare_Gbg
Tuesday, December 21st, 2004, 08:23 PM
Depends on what you mean with celebration...

My family just eat traditional swedish christmasdinner and then give the kids their presents nothing more...

No tree, no decoration, no Santa Claus...etc..

/M
Allmost the same here,but without the presents.

Zyklop
Tuesday, December 21st, 2004, 08:25 PM
Always have, always will.

Blood_Axis
Tuesday, December 21st, 2004, 08:54 PM
I decorated the Christmas tree, pray for some snow and look forward to the Christmas table!

Does that count? ;)

wood
Tuesday, December 21st, 2004, 10:25 PM
Hi --thinking you will enjoy this Solstice - X-Mass message by Oris Bracken, up Dec 19 -31,

www.room322.com


Yule Cheer and Merry Christmas to ALL,
WOOD

:bier:

Eik■yrnir
Wednesday, December 22nd, 2004, 01:46 AM
I am not a christian. Nor would I celebrate the birth of a jew. I celebrate Yule.
:coffee:

Glory
Wednesday, December 22nd, 2004, 03:59 AM
Isn't Christmas just a christian rip off of Yule? Anyways I'm agnostic but I celebrate christmas. Great holiday, especially for the kids, they love it.

Wulf
Wednesday, December 22nd, 2004, 05:12 AM
I celebrate Yule, not Christmas.

Eiserner Adler
Wednesday, December 22nd, 2004, 10:32 AM
Isn't Christmas just a christian rip off of Yule? Anyways I'm agnostic but I celebrate christmas.

I believe that the Romans placed Christmas four days after the winter solstace, to place it at that 'gloomy' time of year (short days) in order to have a cheery holiday at that time. As I pointed out earlier, alot of holiday traditions generally associated with x-mas are really pagan in nature, therefore I associate most of them more with Yule anyways.

Milesian
Wednesday, December 22nd, 2004, 02:45 PM
Yup, celebrating it big time.

Visiting the girlfriend and her family to give them their presents, then off to Midnight Mass (I love it with the Church in darkness and everyone with candles, the procession to the crib, etc)

Then on CHRISTmas day, the family all come for CHRISTmas dinner.
At night, I'll be off out with my friends to celebrate till late Boxing Day.

God, I love CHRISTmas :biggrin:

Northern Paladin
Wednesday, December 22nd, 2004, 08:01 PM
Yup, celebrating it big time.

Visiting the girlfriend and her family to give them their presents, then off to Midnight Mass (I love it with the Church in darkness and everyone with candles, the procession to the crib, etc)

Then on CHRISTmas day, the family all come for CHRISTmas dinner.
At night, I'll be off out with my friends to celebrate till late Boxing Day.

God, I love CHRISTmas :biggrin:

Yeah I am sure Christmas is a big Irish Holiday. But what's Boxing Day?

Loki
Wednesday, December 22nd, 2004, 08:28 PM
Yup, celebrating it big time.

Visiting the girlfriend and her family to give them their presents, then off to Midnight Mass (I love it with the Church in darkness and everyone with candles, the procession to the crib, etc)

Then on CHRISTmas day, the family all come for CHRISTmas dinner.
At night, I'll be off out with my friends to celebrate till late Boxing Day.

God, I love CHRISTmas :biggrin:
In my language, there is no "Christ" in Christmas. Christmas = "Kersfees", which literally means "festival of the candles". :)

Eik■yrnir
Wednesday, December 22nd, 2004, 11:45 PM
In my language, there is no "Christ" in Christmas. Christmas = "Kersfees", which literally means "festival of the candles". :)

In my language (as well as other scandinavian one's) it is Jˇl (or Jul). Which is either linked to the wheel of the year or the feast one has on Jˇl. The origin is ancient and unclear.

cosmocreator
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 05:04 AM
But what's Boxing Day?


When the Chinese killed all foreigner in their country. Something we should be doing.

http://www.britishbornchinese.org.uk/pages/culture/history/boxer.html

I actually don't know what Boxing day refers to over here.

Northern Paladin
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 05:13 AM
When the Chinese killed all foreigner in their country. Something we should be doing.

http://www.britishbornchinese.org.uk/pages/culture/history/boxer.html

I actually don't know what Boxing day refers to over here.

Indeed we should take up the attitude of the Boxers.

Take a look at the Asian nations. They are homogenius and have no quams against Ethnocentricity. That's the way it should be in the West.

Freja
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 08:47 AM
We celebrate yule/jul. I try as hard as I can to keep all christian elements out of our celebration, so that what we end up celebrating is winter solstice.

Draugr
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 08:53 AM
I celebrate Christmas as the birth of Christ the King, no family (I have none), no tree, just a cresh. Don't think it's a coincidence that God chose to be born after the shortest day of the year.

Milesian
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 10:20 AM
Yeah I am sure Christmas is a big Irish Holiday. But what's Boxing Day?


You don't have Boxing Day?
It's just what we call the day after Christmas. I don't know why, probably cause all the boxes the presents were in get thrown out :)

I thought everyone called it Boxing day :icon1:

Milesian
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 10:21 AM
In my language, there is no "Christ" in Christmas. Christmas = "Kersfees", which literally means "festival of the candles". :)


Isn't that Hannukah? ;)

Eiserner Adler
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 12:50 PM
Don't think it's a coincidence that God chose to be born after the shortest day of the year.

There is absolutely zero evidence that Jesus, assuming that such a mortal ever existed, was born on or anywhere near Dec. 25. The Romans arbitrerily placed Xmas near the winter solstace.

Freja
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 03:13 PM
There is absolutely zero evidence that Jesus, assuming that such a mortal ever existed, was born on or anywhere near Dec. 25. The Romans arbitrerily placed Xmas near the winter solstace.

I think it has been established beyond reasonable doubt that the person called Jesus did indeed live.
The fact that he was Gods son, if there even is a God, remains to be proved.

jcs
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 04:03 PM
I think it has been established beyond reasonable doubt that the person called Jesus did indeed live.
The fact that he was Gods son, if there even is a God, remains to be proved.
I used to be consumed with disproving Christianity and still recall the conclusion I came to about the existence of Jesus: he's a composite character, made up from no less than 3 figures from the Talmud, with other unrecorded people possibly being amalgamated into the myth.
But no intelligent Christian would worry about the existence of a historical Jesus(if he existed, he was a jew. so to hell with him); it's the concept of Christ that should be of importance (i.e., the spiritual notions of the faith).


I celebrate Christmas as the birth of Christ the King, no family (I have none), no tree, just a cresh. Don't think it's a coincidence that God chose to be born after the shortest day of the year.
Oh. So you reject the traditions of your ancestors (even the Christian ones) in favour of the practices of Zoroastrianism and Mithraism, two of the faiths that Christians found inspiration from for their mythology? The whole saviour born one the solstice thing was taken directly from the Middle East's Mithraist practices, while most Judeo-Christian theological concepts, especially involving the character of God, were taken from Zoroastrianism (with Ahura Mazda being the model).

If you don't have family, celebrate with friends. And at least have a tree. If you don't honour the traditions of your folk but celebrate the religion of desert people, you are in my mind a race traitor--our spirit, practices, traditions, beliefs, etc. mean as much as our blood.

Milesian
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 04:53 PM
There is absolutely zero evidence that Jesus, assuming that such a mortal ever existed, was born on or anywhere near Dec. 25. The Romans arbitrerily placed Xmas near the winter solstace.


The date is ultimately irrelevant to Christianity.
The date was picked to integrate it with a pagan festival (It was Roman right? Can't remember the name of it).

Von Braun
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 05:16 PM
I think it has been established beyond reasonable doubt that the person called Jesus did indeed live.

No it has not. The only sources for his existence come from members of the upstart Jewish cult of the name "Christian." The few outside Roman "corroborating" pieces of evidence came decades, if not a century or more, after his alleged death, and refer to the cult members themselves, not the alleged founder of the cult.

Draugr
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 05:24 PM
The date is ultimately irrelevant to Christianity.
The date was picked to integrate it with a pagan festival (It was Roman right? Can't remember the name of it).

Saturnalia.

Draugr
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 05:27 PM
No it has not. The only sources for his existence come from members of the upstart Jewish cult of the name "Christian." The few outside Roman "corroborating" pieces of evidence came decades, if not a century or more, after his alleged death, and refer to the cult members themselves, not the alleged founder of the cult.


Josephus. Not to mention the miracles, La Salete, Fatima, the Shroud of Turin.

Von Braun
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 05:33 PM
Josephus. Not to mention the miracles, La Salete, Fatima, the Shroud of Turin.

Like I said, Josephus et. al. were not direct sources by any stretch of the imagination. These men never claimed to have met Jesus of Nazareth.

The Shroud of Turin has been debunked many times.

jcs
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 05:37 PM
The Shroud of Turin has been debunked many times.
yep. Carbon 14 dating indicates that it was not from c. 0, but a few hundred years after. And a little fire in the church it was held in would not result in the c-14 dating being hundreds of years off.

Draugr
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 05:49 PM
yep. Carbon 14 dating indicates that it was not from c. 0, but a few hundred years after. And a little fire in the church it was held in would not result in the c-14 dating being hundreds of years off.

Talk about Jews controling the media! Carbon 14 is not an accurate test and can be off as much 1000 years if all the factors are not considered. Pollen tests show it was in Palestine, and the near east, so unless the fakers went through all that to cover their asses for a test they never knew would exist, you're taking leap of faith than me. Plus how do explain the image itself?

jcs
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 05:56 PM
Talk about Jews controling the media!
Yes, that's right. Everything you disagree with is the product of the Jews.


Plus how do explain the image itself?
uh, the Jews did it. :laugh:

Draugr
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 06:03 PM
Yes, that's right. Everything you disagree with is the product of the Jews.


uh, the Jews did it. :laugh:

No seriously, how?

jcs
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 06:07 PM
damn you, making me google things...

The Shroud of Turin
According to Dr. Walter McCrone and his colleagues at McCrone Associates, the 3+ by 14+ foot cloth depicting Christ's crucified body is an inspired painting produced by a Medieval artist just before its first appearance in recorded history in 1356. The faint sepia image is made up of billions of submicron pigment particles (red ochre and vermilion) in a collagen tempera medium. Dr. McCrone determined this by polarized light microscopy in 1979. This included careful inspection of thousands of linen fibers from 32 different areas (Shroud and sample points), characterization of the only colored image-forming particles by color, refractive indices, polarized light microscopy, size, shape, and microchemical tests for iron, mercury, and body fluids. The paint pigments were dispersed in a collagen tempera (produced in medieval times, perhaps, from parchment). It is chemically distinctly different in composition from blood but readily detected and identified microscopically by microchemical staining reactions. Forensic tests for blood were uniformly negative on fibers from the blood-image tapes.
There is no blood in any image area, only red ochre and vermilion in a collagen tempera medium. The red ochre is present on 20 of both body- and blood-image tapes; the vermilion only on 11 blood-image tapes. Both pigments are absent on the 12 non-image tape fibers.
The Electron Optics Group at McCrone Associates (John Gavrilovic, Anna Teetsov, Mark Andersen, Ralph Hinsch, Howard Humecki, Betty Majewski, and Deborah Piper) in 1980 used electron and x-ray diffraction and found red ochre (iron oxide, hematite) and vermilion (mercuric sulfide); their electron microprobe analyzer found iron, mercury, and sulfur on a dozen of the blood-image area samples. The results fully confirmed Dr. McCrone's results and further proved the image was painted twice-once with red ochre, followed by vermilion to enhance the blood-image areas.
The carbon-dating results from three different internationally known laboratories agreed well with his date: 1355 by microscopy and 1325 by C-14 dating. The suggestion that the 1532 Chambery fire changed the date of the cloth is ludicrous. Samples for C-dating are routinely and completely burned to CO2 as part of a well-tested purification procedure. The suggestions that modern biological contaminants were sufficient to modernize the date are also ridiculous. A weight of 20th century carbon equaling nearly two times the weight of the Shroud carbon itself would be required to change a 1st century date to the 14th century (see Carbon 14 graph). Besides this, the linen cloth samples were very carefully cleaned before analysis at each of the C-dating laboratories.
Experimental details on the tests carried out at McCrone Associates or the McCrone Research Institute are available in five papers published in three different peer-reviewed journal articles: Microscope 1980, 28, 105, 115; 1981, 29, 19; Wiener Berichte uber Naturwissenschaft in der Kunst 1987/1988, 4/5, 50 and Acc. Chem. Res. 1990, 23, 77-83.
Conclusion:
The "Shroud" is a beautiful painting created about 1355 for a new church in need of a pilgrim-attracting relic.
http://www.mcri.org/Shroud.html

This is the same conclusion reached by a number of historians and researchers.

But as I said, the historical existence of Christ is of no consequence; spirituality is of my concern.

jcs
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 06:09 PM
Then there are the refutations of the aforementioned theories (by "impartial" believers, of course):
http://shroudstory.com/faq/

Draugr
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 06:12 PM
Face you can't beleive because you might have to account.

jcs
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 06:19 PM
Face you can't beleive because you might have to account.
or maybe it is because...

the historical existence of Christ is of no consequence
debate finished.

Draugr
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 06:21 PM
Judgement Day, lest we forget I will be vidicated after the world cooks.

Eik■yrnir
Thursday, December 23rd, 2004, 08:58 PM
Judgement Day, lest we forget I will be vidicated after the world cooks.

So you believe. It makes you feel warm inside, I bet. Well good for you. Yet I am content that I will die in Ragnar°k and the nine worlds will be destroyed and there is nothing anyone can do about, not man nor god. Only one can do is live an honorable life and hope one is lucky enough to die in battle and be chosen to go to Valhall until Ragnar°k. If you want to believe in something invented to make you feel vendicated for your beliefs, go ahead - your fate will be no different from us all.

Northern Paladin
Friday, December 24th, 2004, 01:37 AM
Everything that the Bible says is historically and scientifically accurate.
The Bible spoke of the earth as being round and suspended on nothing thousands of years before Modern science did.

Isaiah 40:22 (New International Version)



22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,

and its people are like grasshoppers.

He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,

and spreads them out like a tent to live in

Job 26:7 (New International Version)

7 He spreads out the northern skies over empty space;

he suspends the earth over nothing.

Eik■yrnir
Friday, December 24th, 2004, 02:45 PM
It says "circle" not "sphere," there is a big difference.