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View Full Version : In political ideology, Hitler, Stalin were blood brothers



FadeTheButcher
Tuesday, November 16th, 2004, 12:08 PM
http://media.mnginteractive.com/media/paper36/bkdictators1107.jpg

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~28~2514178,00.html

In 1940, Valentin Berezhkov, a Soviet interpreter stationed in Berlin, took stock of his surroundings and found them strangely familiar. In his memoirs, he recalled being struck by "the same idolization of the 'leader,' the same mass rallies and parades." Both regimes favored the same "ostentatious architecture," official Nazi art closely resembled Socialist Realism, and both societies, he noted, relied on "massive ideological brainwashing."

Could it be that Germany and the Soviet Union, mortal ideological enemies, were in some sense blood brothers? Richard Overy, the author of two acclaimed works of military history, "Why the Allies Won" and "The Battle of Britain," entertains this question and subjects it to rigorous analysis in "The Dictators," an impressive, closely argued comparative study of Adolf Hitler's Germany and Josef Stalin's Russia, the totalitarian regimes par excellence of the 20th century.

Overy's purpose is not to determine which regime was the more evil or to present each system, and its leader, as a mirror image of the other, but "to understand the differing historical processes and states of mind that led both these dictatorships to murder on such a colossal scale."

The book's title is slightly misleading. Overy wastes little time trying to fathom the psychology of the two leaders since neither regime was, as he puts it, "a one-man show." Instead, he examines the machinery of dictatorship, tracing the historical evolution and the workings of, for example, the party state, the cult of personality, the command economy and cultural and racial policy in each country.

The parallels, both chronological and political, are striking.

Both Stalin and Hitler rose to power in an atmosphere of extreme crisis created by World War I and its aftermath. Possessed, almost literally, by a sense of historical mission, and using remarkably similar tactics, they neutralized their political opponents, turned the state into an instrument of the ruling party and transformed the economy into a mighty war machine. Historians are still counting the dead.

The turning point for both men came in 1934, and in each case, a murder was involved. By ordering the execution of Ernst Roehm, the head of the SA paramilitary organization, Hitler made it clear that one man and one man alone now ruled Germany, and that he was above the law. In Russia, Stalin seized on the murder of Sergei Kirov, the head of the Communist Party in Leningrad, to enact a batch of security laws that cleared the way for the bloody purges that came to define his regime.

But Overy contends that in both dictatorships power flowed in two directions, from the top down and the bottom up. They were, as he puts it, "populist dictatorships." The image of a suffering, secretly hostile populace subject to absolute control over every aspect of daily life does not square with reality.

As a purely practical matter, neither state had the manpower for such a task. In the Soviet Union, local party officials, their ranks thinned by constant purges, spent as much time helping local factories meet their production quotas as they did imposing the party line. Outside the cities, their mode of transportation was likely to be a bicycle or a horse.

In Germany, socially more cohesive and geographically more compact, the Nazi Party did a much more thorough job of intruding into private life, but even its far-reaching network of party clubs and political activists could do only so much. As in the Soviet Union, tyranny thrived because the broad mass of the population subscribed to the utopian vision articulated by its leader.

Even during the height of the secret-police terror, in 1937 and 1938, Stalin enjoyed enormous popular support. The average citizen applauded the thorough work of the security forces in rooting out and punishing class enemies. No evidence has yet surfaced that there was ever a single assassination attempt against Stalin. In Nazi Germany, somewhere between half and two-thirds of cases investigated by the Gestapo originated with a public denunciation.

For the enemies, there were the camps, and in characteristic fashion, Overy painstakingly distinguishes, for each country, the different types of camp and the purposes of each, along with the changes in both camp systems over time. Hideous as both camp systems were, a prisoner's chances of survival were far better in the Soviet Union than in Germany, where the camps were regarded as a convenient means of wiping out racial and political enemies.

In the Soviet Union, the camps were intended to meet economic goals. Prisoners, most of them common criminals rather than political offenders, even at the height of the purges of the 1930s, were given just enough food and clothing to keep the strongest among them alive and productive. But in most respects camps in both countries were strikingly similar.

Toward the end of "The Dictators," Overy, in a provocative but frustratingly brief argument, points his finger at a culprit for the murderous ferocity that characterized Hitler's Germany and Stalin's Russia. Both ideologies, he maintains, derived legitimacy and passion from the cult of science. Germany would triumph because, in the Darwinian struggle for supremacy, the strong are destined to crush the weak. The Soviet Union marched forward into the future supremely confident that the iron laws of history and economics were on its side. There was no room for doubt, for compromise, or mercy toward opponents in either society. In this respect, Stalin and Hitler were, indeed, the bloodiest of brothers.

Von Braun
Wednesday, November 17th, 2004, 04:01 PM
Of course with your ko$her viewpoint, you would want to slander an anti-Jewish man like Hitler by comparing him to a notorious Judeo-Communist dictator. I don't care how many specific Jews Stalin sent to gulags. He was a proponent of a Jewish ideology.

FadeTheButcher
Thursday, November 18th, 2004, 06:25 AM
Of course with your ko$her viewpoint, you would want to slander an anti-Jewish man like Hitler by comparing him to a notorious Judeo-Communist dictator. I don't care how many specific Jews Stalin sent to gulags. He was a proponent of a Jewish ideology.Well. They had a lot in common. They were totalitarian dictators who murdered more Europeans than any two men in history.

friedrich braun
Friday, November 19th, 2004, 08:11 PM
Well. They had a lot in common. They were totalitarian dictators who murdered more Europeans than any two men in history.

Hahaha...FadetheButcher when not playing the caricature of a Union flag-waving neo-khan advocating the nuking of them Ayrabs, mutates into a hysterical humanitarian moralist and pacifist or capitalist liberal-democrat…LOL…Every day, no every minute, a new persona emerges…the only thing predictable about the boy is his unpredictability. What's it gonna be tomorrow? Can we have a clue today? Pretty please with sugar on top! I can't wait for the next surprise!

Why don’t you go back even further in time and cry over the fate of those Europeans killed in Napoleonic wars? I mean, why stop with Hitler? Did you know that per capita more Europeans died during Napoleon’s wars than during Hitler's? Does violence in Europe scare you? Read and weep:
http://www.napoleon-series.org/index.html

cutie pie...turtledove...honeybunch...!!! :peck:

Patria
Friday, November 19th, 2004, 08:29 PM
the only thing predictable about the boy is his unpredictability. What's it gonna be tomorrow?Tasty! :icon_ques

Dr. Brandt
Friday, November 19th, 2004, 08:37 PM
It's a bit hard to follow huckelberrys thoughts. First he tells us that everything would have been ok if Hitler didnt screw everything up. (It seems FDR's Amerkwa was competing with NS-Germany who is the most racist state!). Moraly outraged, that Hitler was so brutal in enforcing racism, they then droped the idea all together and decided to back Joseph Stalin - who now is proclaimed to be "Hitlers twin". Of course the moralizing Yanks had no clue what happend in Russia, otherwise they wouldn't have sided with "Uncle Joe". Not to mention Winny from Merry old Englad, who used to foam at the mouth when ever he spoke of the Reds... in the early 20ys. so they had to stop Hitler because he was ruining racialism and eugenics.
Thats right kids, and because of these morals all sorts of Anti-Kommunists had to be handed over to Stalin 1945, so he could Butcher them. It was a rightous thing to do - just like Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden and Hamburg. It's all Hitlers fault!

Fritz - don't answer "junior". Let him bore himself and not us to death. Maybe he will go away, back to his own lil forum where he can snuggle with Muttface and Keikel.

friedrich braun
Friday, November 19th, 2004, 08:40 PM
(It seems FDR's Amerkwa was competing with NS-Germany who is the most racist state!). :food-smil :guinness: :laugh:

The boy cracks me up!!! I want the little sophist to stay!

FadeTheButcher
Saturday, November 20th, 2004, 04:52 AM
Hahaha...FadetheButcher when not playing the caricature of a Union flag-waving neo-khan advocating the nuking of them Ayrabs, mutates into a hysterical humanitarian moralist and pacifist or capitalist liberal-democrat…I still believe in double standards. I don't believe the Dutch should be treated like the Islamic third world scum terrorists that go around murdering civilized Europeans in the streets of the Netherlands. But I suspect you and Dr. Brandt, as usual, are of a different point of view.
LOL…Every day, no every minute, a new persona emerges…Whatever happened to the guy who refused to live in the past?
the only thing predictable about the boy is his unpredictability.What happened to friedrich braun the Protestant Christian?
What's it gonna be tomorrow?I don't know. Just who are you going to morph into next, freddie? A satanist, perhaps?
Can we have a clue today? Pretty please with sugar on top! I can't wait for the next surprise! Hint: It won't be a sadistic Nazi mass murderer. :)

friedrich braun
Saturday, November 20th, 2004, 05:28 PM
Despite everything I still like you Fade. :icon_smil

FadeTheButcher
Sunday, November 21st, 2004, 01:26 AM
"Can't we all just get along?" :D

Perun
Sunday, November 21st, 2004, 07:18 PM
"Can't we all just get along?" :D

Come on [White] people now
Smile on your brother
Everybody get together
Try to love one another
Right now



:rotfl:

DreamWalker
Sunday, November 21st, 2004, 09:09 PM
"Can't we all just get along?" :D

We would probably get along much better if you would desist with the spreading of neo-con/zionist propaganda. If you noticed, the original review was published by the NY Times, the premier rag of the US jewish establishment. In other words, itz propaganda from the jews and you accept it without an apparent second thought.

So far, you have shown yourself as someone who is easily led around by the nose by the jewish propaganda machine that is the USA mass media. But you are still young, and I suppose all we can do is hope you will show more independent thinking in the future.

friedrich braun
Sunday, November 21st, 2004, 09:25 PM
Fade is an immature 23 year-old boy and sophist from rural Alabama backwaters who changes opinions and positions like others change socks...(if he's bored he'll attack his former allies just for the Hell of it). I wouldn't take anything he has to say seriously...he goes through ideological transformations in a matter of days...sometimes hours. Betraying old friends means nothing to him. I'm sure he'll have a fine career as a US politician. :laugh:

FadetheHillbilly: :rotfl:

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