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friedrich braun
Tuesday, November 2nd, 2004, 02:22 PM
Notice the typically spineless, cowardly reaction of Dutch politicians.


By TOBY STERLING

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) - A Dutch filmmaker who had received death threats after releasing a movie criticizing the treatment of women under Islam was slain in Amsterdam on Tuesday, police said.

A suspect, a 26-year-old man with dual Dutch-Moroccan nationality, was arrested after a shootout with officers that left him wounded, police said.

Filmmaker Theo van Gogh had been threatened after the August airing of the movie "Submission," which he made with a right-wing Dutch politician who had renounced the Islamic faith of her birth. Van Gogh had received police protection after its release.

Dutch national broadcaster NOS and other media reported that Van Gogh's killer shot and stabbed his victim and left a note on his body. NOS said witnesses described the attacker as having an "Arab appearance."

A witness who lives in the neighborhood heard six shots, and saw the man concealing a gun. She said he walked away slowly, spoke to someone at the edge of the park, and then ran.

"He was walking slowly, like he was trying to be cool," she said, describing him as wearing a long beard and Islamic garb. "He was either an Arabic man or someone disguised as a Muslim," she said.

Another witness told Dutch Radio 1 the killer arrived by bicycle and shot Van Gogh as he got out of a car. "He fell backward on the bicycle path and just laid there. The shooter stayed next to him and waited. Waited to make sure he was dead."

The slain filmmaker was the great grandson of the brother of famous Dutch painter Vincent van Gogh, who was also named Theo. In a recent radio interview, Van Gogh dismissed the threats and called the movie "the best protection I could have. It's not something I worry about."

Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende called on the Dutch people to remain calm.

"Nothing is known about the motive," he said in a written statement. "I want to call on everyone not to jump to far-reaching conclusions. The facts must first be carefully weighed so let's allow the investigators to do their jobs."

Balkenende praised Van Gogh as a proponent of free speech who had "outspoken opinions."

"It would be unacceptable if a difference of opinion led to this brutal murder," he said.

Police spokesman Eric Vermeulen said the attacker fled to the nearby East Park, and was arrested after exchanging gunfire with police. Both the suspect and a policeman suffered minor injuries.

"They were conscious" when taken to hospital, Vermeulen said.

Van Gogh's killing immediately rekindled memories of the 2002 assassination of Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn who polarized the nation with his anti-immigration views and was shot to death days before national elections.

In addition to his film, van Gogh also wrote columns about Islam that were published on his Web site, www.theovangogh.nl, and Dutch newspaper Metro.

The short television film "Submission" aired on Dutch television in August, enraged the Muslim community in the Netherlands.

It told the fictional story of a Muslim woman forced into a violent marriage, raped by a relative and brutally punished for adultery.

The English-language film was scripted by a right-wing politician who years ago renounced the Islamic faith of her birth and now refers to herself as an "ex-Muslim."

Somali-born Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a member of the Dutch parliament, has repeatedly outraged fellow Muslims by criticizing Islamic customs and the failure of Muslim families to adopt Dutch ways.

The place of Muslim immigrants in Dutch society has long been a contentious issue in the Netherlands, where many right-wing politicians have pushed for tougher immigration laws and say Muslims already settled in the country must make a greater effort to assimilate.

Theo van Gogh, 47, has often come under criticism for his controversial movies. In December, his next movie "06-05," about the May 6, 2002 assassination of Pim Fortuyn, is scheduled to debut on the Internet.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041102/D863NRS80.html

friedrich braun
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 03:10 AM
From the BNP website:

2nd November 2004
Lee Barnes, LLB (Hons) reports on today's murder of a Dutch film maker by islamicists.

The Dutch film maker Theo van Gogh, who made a controversial film attacking islamic culture, has been stabbed and shot dead in Amsterdam.

Van Gogh, 47, had received death threats from Muslim extremists after his film "Submission", about sexual violence within Islam and the organised oppression of women in islamic societies, was shown on Dutch TV.

Extremists "sheltered" - claim

The film was made with the black liberal Dutch politician Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somali refugee who fled an arranged islamic marriage. Ayaan has frequently attacked the extremists sheltered by the moderate Islamic leadership inside in the islamic faith and has been in hiding from attacks since she started her public campaign against islamic fundamentalism in Holland. Ayaan Hirsi Ali has since renounced the islamic faith.


During the arrest of the assassin, believed to be a Moroccan, both the suspect and a policeman suffered bullet wounds and are now in hospital.
Pym Fortuyn film

Van Gogh - who was related to the famous Dutch painter Vincent Van Gogh - had also been making a film about Pim Fortuyn, the populist right-wing, anti-immigration politician assassinated in May 2002 by a far left extremist. Pim Fortuyn had received death threats from islamic fundamentalists but the police had also refused to give him police protection.

The film "Submission" made by Van Gogh told the story of a Muslim woman forced into an arranged marriage and who is then abused by her husband and raped by her uncle. It triggered an outcry from Dutch Muslims who could not tolerate public debate about the secret internal evils of islamic social structures and who wanted the media to be forced under the Race Relations Acts to only be allowed to debate the positive nature of Islam.

Proposed legislation

Under David Blunkett's proposed 'religious hatred' law for Britain the film "Submission" would be banned in Britain as an 'incitement to religious hatred' and those possessing a copy of the film would be liable for a term of imprisonment for possessing a 'religious hatred' film. Blunkett's law will destroy democratic debate in Britain and will betray the sacrifice of this brave man whose bullet riddled body reveals the true nature of the 'tolerance' of the followers of Islam.

The Netherlands is home to nearly one million Muslims or 5.5% of the population, though the real figures are unknown as the liberal Dutch state will not investigate the true number of illegal Muslims in Holland for fear of causing racial unrest in the areas run by the islamic mosques and religious leaders.

One of the film maker's colleagues at the film production company where he worked said Van Gogh had received death threats "but he never took them quite seriously". This is a lesson to all European Nationalist patriots and politicians - and also all European liberals.

Freedom of speech threatened

The islamic terrorist threat to our freedom of speech and civil liberties is not just in Iraq, it is in our towns and cities and growing stronger every day. Tolerating Islamo-Fascism in our own nations leads to murder on our own city streets.

Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende has said "it is unacceptable if expressing your opinion would be the cause of this brutal murder". Though of course any criticism of the islamic followers that committed the murder will also be similarly muted.

Queen Beatrix has said she is also shocked and appalled at the killing.

Condolences

We in the BNP send our regards and condolences to the family of this brave man. We will not forget his sacrifice for the principal of European Freedom Of Speech. On the day we take power in Britain we will pass emergency legislation through Parliament to tear up every Race Relations Act, every Liberal Fascist law that criminalises free speech and every piece of legislation that makes free men afraid to speak the truth in their own country.

Martyr list is growing

The list of martyrs of the 'European Patriot Revolution' that is flourishing across all of Europe will grow longer until all our freedoms are won back from the Islamo-Fascists and the Liberal Appeaser Politicians that grovel before them - but it is the essential struggle of the 21st Century and one we will not fail.

The 'Liberati' - the Liberal Fascist Elite - are now increasingly seen by the European people as the enemies of our true European democracies, but soon they and their lies and sick double standards will be swept away.

The list of European martyrs killed by Muslims is growing:

http://www.balder.org/articles/hatespeech/James-Waite-Racist-Murder-Sweden.php

friedrich braun
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 06:21 PM
Not living in Germany, I often forget that today's Germans are completely insane masochists:

An entry at the Gene Expression blog on the killing of the filmmaker:



I corresponded with a German friend about this today. Her reaction: It's because of Bush's war and European and American racism. Pure insanity, and this is an intelligent person. I'm really dismayed with European pc-ism, anti-Americanism and self-hatred.
om_shalom | Email | Homepage | 11.02.04 - 6:26 pm | #
http://www.gnxp.com/

In other words, it's mainly because of Dutch racism that van Gogh was killed, you see?

friedrich braun
Thursday, November 4th, 2004, 01:36 AM
Dutch fear loss of tolerance
By Perro de Jong
Radio Netherlands, Hilversum


When the populist politician Pim Fortuyn was assassinated two years ago, it was said the Netherlands had lost its innocence.


By comparison, film maker Theo van Gogh's murder has evoked sensations of déjà vu, rather than disbelief. But that does not mean the fall-out will be any less serious.

In 2002, the revelation that Pim Fortuyn's killer was a very Dutch environmental activist, and not a Muslim, had a sobering effect on the angry mobs who were ready to go on the rampage, torch in hand.

But this time, there were eyewitness descriptions of the murderer's traditional Moroccan jallaba.

And then there was the manner in which Van Gogh was killed: his throat was reportedly cut, bringing to mind the words of an angry Muslim only a few months ago that people like Van Gogh who blasphemed against Islam should be "slaughtered like pigs".

Racial tension

"Today is the day I became a racist," was one of the typical reactions that appeared on Dutch websites on Tuesday, even before it had been officially confirmed that the killer was of Moroccan descent.


Other reactions were more extreme, calling for Hitler to be brought back from the grave or for all "foreigners" to be deported from the Netherlands at once.
Meanwhile, several websites for Dutch Moroccans were taken offline when people wrote in to express their approval of the killing.

Dutch Muslim leaders such as Ayhan Tonca were quick to distance themselves from these extreme reactions, saying that even if they had found Van Gogh's films and newspaper columns blasphemous, Muslims "must strongly protest that this kind of assassination is not accepted by the Muslim community."

A large number of Dutch Muslims were among the crowd protesting against the killing in Amsterdam's Dam Square on Tuesday, carrying banners with slogans such as "not in the name of my Islam".

MPs under pressure

The government, meanwhile, appeared eager not to repeat the mistakes the main political parties had made two years ago, when they were accused of downplaying the importance of what had happened.

Jozias van Aartsen, leader of the Liberal VVD Party, was one of the first to suggest a link between the Dutch Moroccan arrested for the murder and "terrorism."


"Democracy is in danger," was Mr Van Aartsen's unambiguous comment.
And Rita Verdonk, the immigration minister whose tough policies have proved increasingly unpopular with the Dutch public, was one of the main speakers at the mass demonstration in Dam Square.

Still, the politicians will have to defend themselves against accusations that they closed their eyes to the rise of Islamic fundamentalism.

Backlash

A close friend and colleague of Theo van Gogh, columnist Ebru Umar, said she did not think the government would act even now: "This is the Netherlands, nothing will happen."

And Somali-born MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who worked with Van Gogh on his controversial film called Submission, said it was an "outright scandal" that the government had not offered him better protection.

Fortuyn's assassination in 2002 triggered a fierce anti-government backlash and the left-wing Labour Party saw its vote almost halved in the elections that followed.

This time, with a right-wing government in power, the sense of disillusionment is even stronger, as many people feel they are running out of non-violent alternatives.

"Van Gogh may not have survived," warned the Dutch daily De Stem, "but his dedication to freedom of speech should survive, and you cannot defend that freedom with violence against a whole group".

The daily De Volkskrant meanwhile said Muslims "will have to accept that, in a democracy, religion, too, is open to criticism - this applies to Islam no less than to Christianity".

"Theo van Gogh in this respect always purposefully went to the limits of decency. Many have regularly had reason to feel hurt or offended by him. In a democracy, those who want to defend themselves against this can go to court. Any other curtailment of free speech is inadmissible," it commented.


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/world/europe/3980371.stm

Published: 2004/11/03 19:15:50 GMT

© BBC MMIV

Loki
Thursday, November 4th, 2004, 07:00 AM
The Dutch are tough, brave people. If you push them too far, they will retaliate strongly. As the Spanish, they know. :laugh:

Nordgau
Thursday, November 4th, 2004, 05:14 PM
"Today is the day I became a racist," was one of the typical reactions that appeared on Dutch websites on Tuesday, even before it had been officially confirmed that the killer was of Moroccan descent.

Other reactions were more extreme, calling for Hitler to be brought back from the grave or for all "foreigners" to be deported from the Netherlands at once.


The birth of reason from the spirit of multiculturalism. :icon_ques I hope that not too few also stay aware and not fall back again after such first emotional hyper-reactions.

friedrich braun
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 01:47 AM
Fatal Detraction

A provocative, and offensive, filmmaker and columnist attacks Islam and pays with his life.

BY LEON DE WINTER
Friday, November 5, 2004 12:01 a.m.

AMSTERDAM--It was only two years ago that an animal-rights extremist assassinated the populist Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn, explaining later in court that he did so, in part, to stop Fortuyn from using Muslim immigrants as "scapegoats." Now the Netherlands is once again in shock. On Tuesday, the filmmaker and newspaper columnist Theo van Gogh--a distant descendant of the artist Vincent--was murdered, allegedly by a Muslim immigrant (now in police custody). On Wednesday the police arrested eight Islamic radicals in connection with the slaying. The Netherlands prides itself on being a liberal and tolerant country. What is going on?
Like Mr. Fortuyn, whom he admired, Mr. Van Gogh was a radical libertarian, a champion of free speech who refused to be constrained by taboos or social codes. I know from personal experience what it felt like to be the target of his invective.

Mr. Van Gogh's pen could be vulgar and radical, and he managed to offend me more than once. In 1984, after I directed a feature film called "Frontiers," about a Dutch journalist who goes abroad to interview a terrorist and discovers his own violent side, Mr. Van Gogh accused me of "selling out my Jewish identity," although there was not a single Jewish character in the picture. Writing elsewhere about Jewish writers or filmmakers, he made Holocaust-tinged jokes like: "Hey, it smells like caramel today--well then, they must be burning the diabetic Jews." Such attacks went on for almost 20 years. (Mr. Van Gogh was 47 when he died.)

To be clear: Mr. Van Gogh did not limit himself to Jewish topics. He attacked Christian values and symbols as well. Theodor Holman, another Dutch columnist, once wrote that "every Christian is a criminal," and a storm of controversy broke out. Mr. Van Gogh came to his defense by writing that people offended by those words were only "the fan club of that rotting fish in Nazareth." After viewing Mel Gibson's recent film, Mr. Van Gogh remarked in the daily Metro: "I just went to see 'The Passion of the Christ,' a film as bad as an LSD trip which shows once again that also in the sewers of Christianity collective daftness just leads to mud."

After the death of Mr. Fortuyn, who warned that Holland's open culture would clash with its growing Muslim community, Mr. Van Gogh turned his attention to Islam, spewing invective in his columns and earning many enemies. Many people went out of their way to avoid him, including me.





Even so, Mr. Van Gogh remained a member of the artistic establishment. He worked for the leading Dutch television companies, for newspapers and magazines. In August he caused a sensation by collaborating with Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somali who fled to Holland 10 years ago and who eventually won a seat in Parliament. Two years ago, Ms. Hirsi Ali declared that she no longer considered herself a Muslim. Death threats followed, and she was given round-the-clock protection by the Dutch secret service. Certain segments of the public hailed her as the true heir of Mr. Fortuyn. She certainly has a charismatic persona: She is black, beautiful and elegant--and knows Islam inside-out.
It was the film that Mr. Van Gogh and Ms. Hirsi Ali made, "Submission"--the title is a literal translation of the Arabic word "Islam"--that appears to have led to Van Gogh's murder. In his 20-minute movie, based on Ms. Hirsi Ali's script and screened on television in August, Mr. Van Gogh portrayed written passages from the Koran on partially clothed female bodies to accentuate the texts' hostility to women. The intention, of course, was to provoke a discussion among female Muslims.

And provocative the film was, but in the context of Holland's often brazen filmmaking culture it was reasonably cautious and subtle. In fact, it led me for the first time to write something positive about Mr. Van Gogh. I thought the negative reaction to "Submission" was unfair. In Elsevier magazine I wrote that the "people who are offended by this film have a big problem." I noted that it did not openly show naked women--as so many critics had claimed--and that it was rather modest in its style, subdued and carefully made.

In his own statements, Mr. Van Gogh made no concessions to the sensibilities of Holland's Muslim immigrants. He was an artiste provocateur--troublesome, offensive and hyperbolic but, it should be said, accepted within the wide boundaries of Dutch culture.

But not by everyone. On Tuesday, a 26-year-old observant Muslim named Mohammed B. (officials are withholding his family name) decided to act, unable to accept that unbelievers like Mr. Van Gogh might be led to criticize or ridicule Islam. The son of immigrants who had found work, prosperity and freedom in the Netherlands, he had a history of violence and, it now appears, was allied with a group of radical Muslims.

Having shot Mr. Van Gogh while the filmmaker was riding his bicycle, and clutching a knife in both hands, Mohammed B. tried to cut off Van Gogh's head--"as if he were slicing bread," as one eyewitness related. For the deed, he had dressed himself in traditional Moroccan garb and, it seems, attempted to ritually slaughter the infidel, like an animal. He stuck a note on Van Gogh's chest with a knife.

The minister of justice announced yesterday that the note was a letter addressed to Ms. Hirsi Ali, threatening her and filled with threats and anti-Semitic remarks. The letter, he noted, "shows an extreme religious ideology; it says that its enemies should fear for their lives." The minister of the interior, for his part, remarked that the letter was "a direct attack on the Dutch democratic system."





And so it seems to be. In a strange and appalling way, Mohammed B. did to Mr. Van Gogh what Mr. Van Gogh did to the actresses and extras in "Submission"--the essential difference being that the actresses could wash the words away and leave the studio without a care, while the words on Mr. Van Gogh were pinned by his murderer to his dead flesh.
This difference highlights what many in the Netherlands see as an enormous problem with the fundamentalist parts of Arab-Islamic cultures: an inability to view the world according to abstract principles, to transcend the literally militant passages of sacred texts. To some, the Koran to this day offers no prospect of a free interpretation, or a tolerant one, that can exist alongside the free speech of a liberal society.

In the heyday of their multicultural utopia, the Dutch political and intellectual elites believed that radical Muslims and radical libertarians could exist peacefully together in the same society. In recent years it has become clear that such a belief was an illusion, although the politically correct media long tried to avoid the whole subject.

Mr. Fortuyn, in his outspoken political career, broke the taboos surrounding the problems of immigration and paid with his life. Mr. Van Gogh paid the same price for a provocation that, had it been directed at Christianity rather than Islam, would have hardly raised an eyebrow.

Mr. de Winter is a Dutch novelist and adjunct fellow at the Hudson Institute.


Copyright © 2004 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

friedrich braun
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 02:13 AM
Netherlands braces for 'jihad'
By Anthony Deutsch
ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published November 6, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THE HAGUE -- The Dutch government yesterday vowed tough measures against what a leading politician called "the arrival of jihad in the Netherlands" after a death threat to a Dutch lawmaker was found spiked with a knife to the body of a slain filmmaker by his radical Muslim attacker.
A five-page letter released Thursday night by the justice minister forced political leaders -- including Amsterdam's Jewish mayor and members of parliament -- to take on bodyguards.
The document, attached to the body of filmmaker Theo van Gogh, was titled "An Open Letter to [Aayan] Hirsi Ali," referring to a Somali-born member of parliament. She had scripted Mr. van Gogh's latest film, "Submission," which criticized the treatment of women under Islam.
Miss Hirsi Ali, who calls herself an ex-Muslim, has gone into hiding.
"Death, Ms. Hirsi Ali, is the common theme of all that exists. You and the rest of the cosmos cannot escape this truth," the letter said.
"There will come a day when one soul cannot help another soul. A day that goes paired with terrible tortures, ... when the unjust will press horrible screams from their lungs.
"Screams, Ms. Hirsi Ali, that will cause chills to run down a person's back, and make the hairs on their heads stand straight up. People will be drunk with fear, while they are not drunken. Fear will fill the air on the Great Day," the letter said.
"I know definitely that you, Oh America, will go down. I know definitely that you, Oh Europe, will go down. I know definitely that you, Oh Netherlands, will go down. I know definitely that you, Oh Hirsi Ali, will go down," it said.
Deputy Prime Minister Gerrit Zalm agreed with comments by other politicians who called Mr. van Gogh's slaying a declaration of Islamic jihad, or "holy war."
"We are not going to tolerate this. We are going to ratchet up the fight against this sort of terrorism," he said. "The increase in radicalization is worse than we had thought."
Among measures under consideration is an emergency law to enable authorities to revoke the Dutch nationality of dual citizens suspected of terrorist activity so that they can be deported.
Mr. Zalm said the intelligence service, which already has expanded since the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks in the United States, would receive more funding to help it monitor potential terrorist recruits.
The suspected killer in the van Gogh case, a 26-year-old Dutch-Moroccan national, was arraigned on six terrorism-related charges.
Mr. van Gogh, a descendant of 19th-century Dutch painter Vincent van Gogh, was fatally shot and stabbed Tuesday while cycling down an Amsterdam street. The remains of the provocative social commentator and author, whose throat was slashed in the attack, will be cremated Tuesday in a public service.
The slaying is testing already strained relations between the ethnic Dutch population and the Muslim community. There are about 300,000 Moroccan immigrants in the Netherlands out of a population of 16 million.
Mr. Zalm said talks were ongoing with Muslim groups over how to avoid a violent backlash against Muslims.
Arsonists are believed to have set fire to a mosque in the central Dutch city of Utrecht, police spokesman Peter Keijzers said. There were no reports of injuries.
Jozias van Aartsen, parliamentary speaker for the nationalist People's Party for Freedom and Democracy (VVD), the second-largest party in the government of Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende, issued a statement that called Mr. van Gogh's slaying tantamount to a declaration of war.
"The jihad has come to the Netherlands and a small group of jihadist terrorists is attacking the principles of our country," he said. "I hope the Netherlands will now move beyond denial and do what is fitting in a democracy -- take action.
"These people don't want to change our society, they want to destroy it," he said.
The terrorist threat left by Mr. van Gogh's killer carries the ideology of a terrorist movement, Takfir wal Hijra or "Repentance and Flight," which advocates isolation from what it calls the sinful world, Dutch press reported.
Chief prosecutor Leo de Wit said the suspected killer, identified only as Mohammed B., faces at least six terrorism-related counts, including charges of murder and "participating in a criminal organization with terrorist characteristics."
The suspect, wounded in the leg in a shootout with police, has refused to talk to investigators. He was arrested with a note in his pocket titled "Drenched in Blood."
Authorities arrested eight other suspects in Mr. van Gogh's slaying and are looking into any links between the suspects and foreign terrorist groups.
Two suspects were released, Mr. de Wit said yesterday. Six will be charged with conspiring to commit murder, he said.
Prosecutors said all are Islamic radicals of North African ancestry. Four also were arrested Oct. 23 on suspicion of plotting a terrorist attack but were released for lack of evidence. Justice Minister Piet Hein Donner told parliament the four had contacts with a suspect in last year's Casablanca bombings.




Copyright © 2004 News World Communications, Inc. All rights reserved.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Loki
Monday, November 8th, 2004, 08:01 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3991547.stm

Monday, 8 November, 2004, 10:30 GMT

Dutch Muslim school hit by bomb

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40500000/jpg/_40500797_mosque_ap_203body.jpg
The blast caused extensive damage to the Muslim school

A bomb explosion has hit an Islamic school in the Netherlands, as tensions run high after the murder of controversial film-maker Theo van Gogh.

Monday's blast in the southern city of Eindhoven caused heavy damage, destroying doors and windows.

Police say it could be a revenge attack for the killing of Van Gogh by a suspected Islamic radical last week.

Mosques in several Dutch cities have been the targets of vandalism and failed arson attempts in recent days.

The Eindhoven explosion - which occurred around 0230 GMT on Monday - was caused by a "strong bomb or explosive", a police spokesman told the BBC News website.

Windows in neighbouring buildings were shattered, he added. No-one was hurt.

Police are investigating possible links between the attack and Van Gogh's killing.

Backlash?

The authorities have been on alert for revenge attacks on Muslims.

Over the past three days attempted attacks against Muslim targets have been reported in the cities of Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Breda and Huizen.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40479000/jpg/_40479989_tvang203_apcopy.jpg
Van Gogh directed TV series and wrote newspaper columns

The film-maker was shot and stabbed in Amsterdam on Tuesday.

Several men, all believed to be Islamic radicals, have been arrested.

The Dutch government has vowed to take tough action against Muslim militants.

Police say they found a letter signed by an unknown group on Van Gogh's body containing threats to kill liberal politician Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

Ms Hirsi Ali is a Somali refugee who wrote the script to Van Gogh's controversial film Submission, which criticised the treatment of women under Islam. On Sunday Dutch police arrested two men who had allegedly called for the beheading of Geert Wilders, a member of parliament, in the name of Islam. Mr Wilders has said he will set up an anti-immigration party in the wake of Van Gogh's death.

Loki
Monday, November 8th, 2004, 08:06 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3980371.stm

Dutch fear loss of tolerance

By Perro de Jong
Radio Netherlands, Hilversum
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/999999.gif

When the populist politician Pim Fortuyn was assassinated two years ago, it was said the Netherlands had lost its innocence.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40486000/jpg/_40486623_nmuslimsap203body.jpg
The Netherlands is home to nearly one million Muslims

By comparison, film maker Theo van Gogh's murder has evoked sensations of déjà vu, rather than disbelief. But that does not mean the fall-out will be any less serious.

In 2002, the revelation that Pim Fortuyn's killer was a very Dutch environmental activist, and not a Muslim, had a sobering effect on the angry mobs who were ready to go on the rampage, torch in hand.

But this time, there were eyewitness descriptions of the murderer's traditional Moroccan jallaba.

And then there was the manner in which Van Gogh was killed: his throat was reportedly cut, bringing to mind the words of an angry Muslim only a few months ago that people like Van Gogh who blasphemed against Islam should be "slaughtered like pigs".

Racial tension

"Today is the day I became a racist," was one of the typical reactions that appeared on Dutch websites on Tuesday, even before it had been officially confirmed that the killer was of Moroccan descent.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40479000/jpg/_40479989_tvang203_apcopy.jpg
Van Gogh had received death threats over his film Submission

Other reactions were more extreme, calling for Hitler to be brought back from the grave or for all "foreigners" to be deported from the Netherlands at once.

Meanwhile, several websites for Dutch Moroccans were taken offline when people wrote in to express their approval of the killing.

Dutch Muslim leaders such as Ayhan Tonca were quick to distance themselves from these extreme reactions, saying that even if they had found Van Gogh's films and newspaper columns blasphemous, Muslims "must strongly protest that this kind of assassination is not accepted by the Muslim community."

A large number of Dutch Muslims were among the crowd protesting against the killing in Amsterdam's Dam Square on Tuesday, carrying banners with slogans such as "not in the name of my Islam".

MPs under pressure

The government, meanwhile, appeared eager not to repeat the mistakes the main political parties had made two years ago, when they were accused of downplaying the importance of what had happened.

Jozias van Aartsen, leader of the Liberal VVD Party, was one of the first to suggest a link between the Dutch Moroccan arrested for the murder and "terrorism."

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40486000/jpg/_40486625_nrwingdemoap203.jpg
Far-right protesters confronted police in The Hague

"Democracy is in danger," was Mr Van Aartsen's unambiguous comment.

And Rita Verdonk, the immigration minister whose tough policies have proved increasingly unpopular with the Dutch public, was one of the main speakers at the mass demonstration in Dam Square.

Still, the politicians will have to defend themselves against accusations that they closed their eyes to the rise of Islamic fundamentalism.

Backlash

A close friend and colleague of Theo van Gogh, columnist Ebru Umar, said she did not think the government would act even now: "This is the Netherlands, nothing will happen."

And Somali-born MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who worked with Van Gogh on his controversial film called Submission, said it was an "outright scandal" that the government had not offered him better protection.

Fortuyn's assassination in 2002 triggered a fierce anti-government backlash and the left-wing Labour Party saw its vote almost halved in the elections that followed.

This time, with a right-wing government in power, the sense of disillusionment is even stronger, as many people feel they are running out of non-violent alternatives.

"Van Gogh may not have survived," warned the Dutch daily De Stem, "but his dedication to freedom of speech should survive, and you cannot defend that freedom with violence against a whole group". The daily De Volkskrant meanwhile said Muslims "will have to accept that, in a democracy, religion, too, is open to criticism - this applies to Islam no less than to Christianity". "Theo van Gogh in this respect always purposefully went to the limits of decency. Many have regularly had reason to feel hurt or offended by him. In a democracy, those who want to defend themselves against this can go to court. Any other curtailment of free speech is inadmissible," it commented.

Loki
Monday, November 8th, 2004, 08:08 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/3975211.stm

Life of slain Dutch filmmaker

The murder of Dutch movie director Theo van Gogh comes two months after his highly controversial film, Submission - about the abuse of Muslim women - was shown on national TV in Holland.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40481000/jpg/_40481363_theoap_203.jpg
Theo van Gogh's career combined directing, acting and writing

Theo van Gogh's name was better-known around the world because he shared it with his great-great-grandfather, the brother of artist Vincent van Gogh.

But in the Dutch film community, he was a well-known figure and has been described as the Netherlands' Michael Moore.

Submission may have only been a 10-minute English-language short, but it caused uproar in his home country when it was broadcast at the end of August.

The outcry centred on the stories of four Muslim women who were beaten, raped and forced into marriage, and were asking for Allah's help.

It becomes apparent that their chadors and gowns are transparent and their half-naked bodies are visible through their dress.

On their bodies are written Koranic verses describing the permitted physical punishments for women who "misbehave".

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40481000/jpg/_40481367_theoap2_203.jpg
He was stabbed and shot dead in a street in Amsterdam

Van Gogh spent 18,000 euros (£12,500) of his own money making the film in secret - and it was to be the first instalment of a three-part series.

The second part was due to look at the issue from Muslim men's points of view.

The film was written by Somali-born Dutch member of parliament Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who has been a strong opponent of Islam's treatment of women.

Hirsi Ali has said she wanted to draw attention to the hidden violence against Muslim women, describing some practices as "savage Medieval customs", and show Muslims are the same as everyone when stripped bare.

Muslim commentators in the country accused Van Gogh and Hirsi Ali - who both got death threats - of courting controversy and said the nudity was confrontational and blasphemous.

But Van Gogh said he was deliberately cautious, and would have made the film differently if he really wanted to shock.

The fall-out has also included heated media debate, denouncement in internet chat rooms and a rap song calling for Hirsi Ali's death.

Van Gogh, 47, made his first feature film more than 20 years ago and mixed directing with acting and writing.

He used his famous name in 2002 when he appeared alongside Kill Bill star David Carradine in Wheatfield with Crows - which brought Vincent Van Gogh into the modern music industry.

Awards

But his directing was more successful than his acting and his films were regularly nominated at the Nederlands Film Festival, where he won five awards, dating from 1981.

A movie called 06, about a young woman who advertises her services for phone sex, was made in 1994 and became one of his best-known works. It was renamed 1-900 for the US market.

Blind Date, two years later, featured a bartender listening to two customers talk and 2004's Cool! was about the rehabilitation of a gang of young criminals.

Van Gogh also found success making TV programmes. Among his highlights was Najib en Julia, a modern reworking of Romeo and Juliet that saw a Dutch girl fall in love with a Moroccan pizza delivery boy. The director's most recent project was 06-05, a movie about Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn, who was also assassinated in 2002.

Loki
Monday, November 8th, 2004, 08:14 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1346191,00.html

Blast hits Dutch Muslim school

Agencies
Monday November 8, 2004

A Muslim school in the southern Netherlands town of Eindhoven was today damaged in an explosion.


The apparent attack was the latest in a string against Muslim institutions since the murder last week of film director Theo van Gogh by a suspected Islamist militant.

Police said they were investigating the cause of the blast, which damaged the school's entrance and shattered windows. Nobody was hurt.

The Eindhoven mayor, Alexander Sakkers, said the police had been told to keep watch on all Muslim buildings since van Gogh's murder.

"The neighbourhood is terribly shocked," he told Dutch radio. "It seems as if we will have to put a police officer in front of every building."

At the weekend, mosques in the city of Rotterdam and the towns of Breda and Huizen were attacked but not badly damaged, while several fires broke out at a mosque in the central town of Utrecht on Friday. Police said they suspected arson.

Police detained a 24-year-old man on suspicion of setting fire to the mosque in Rotterdam on Sunday morning. Only the door was damaged. Pamphlets insulting Islam and showing pictures of pigs heads were plastered on another mosque in Rotterdam.

Police are holding seven people in connection with van Gogh's murder, including the main suspect, a Dutch Moroccan, who was charged on Friday with the killing and membership of a group with "terrorist intentions". A letter found pinned to van Gogh's body with a knife targeted a Dutch politician who worked with the dead man on a film about abuse of women in Muslim society.



The Wall Street Journal today reported that investigators believed the murder suspect had contacts with Islamic militants in Spain and that the order to kill van Gogh may even have come from a fugitive militant in Spain. The main suspect was carrying a pamphlet threatening death to enemies of Islam.

Far-right protesters have marched in Amsterdam and Rotterdam to express their anger at the killing, while the government has urged calm amid fears of raising hostility towards foreigners.

The Netherlands is home to almost a million Muslims, almost 6% of its population of 16 million. A poll by RTL Nieuws showed 47% said they felt less tolerant of Muslims since van Gogh's murder, while another survey showed support for a populist who wants to stop immigration from Turkey and Morocco rising to 12%. Geert Wilders, seen as an heir to murdered anti-immigration politician Pim Fortuyn, has received death threats for his criticism of Islam. He said last week he wanted to launch a new right-wing party to clamp down on Muslim extremists.

Whodamn
Tuesday, November 9th, 2004, 07:32 PM
@Loki:

Thanks for inviting me in, i'll try to tell someting in 'broken' english, for Dutch is my native language and yes, i'm from the Netherlands.

Forget the mills. Forget the wooden shoes. Massive import of muslim-scum and other coloured 'people' has damaged our country in a irreparable way. 16 million people in a country as big as the Netherlands, with 1 million muslims and 1-2 million other leechers.
Overcrowded cities, loaded with (coloured) crime, no parking facilities, group rapings of white girls by muslim teens, invidual whites being threatened by muslims...Social security worn out by coloured leechers.

All this and now the killing of one of our favorite columnists/movie makers by a muslim-religious-fanatic. A sick and week government, of which some members are already protected by bodyguards and armoured cars and are forced to live in protected an secret houses...

I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired...

Loki
Tuesday, November 9th, 2004, 07:36 PM
@Loki:

Thanks for inviting me in, i'll try to tell someting in 'broken' english, for Dutch is my native language and yes, i'm from the Netherlands.

Forget the mills. Forget the wooden shoes. Massive import of muslim-scum and other coloured 'people' has damaged our country in a irreparable way. 16 million people in a country as big as the Netherlands, with 1 million muslims and 1-2 million other leechers.
Overcrowded cities, loaded with (coloured) crime, no parking facilities, group rapings of white girls by muslim teens, invidual whites being threatened by muslims...Social security worn out by coloured leechers.

All this and now the killing of one of our favorite columnists/movie makers by a muslim-religious-fanatic. A sick and week government, of which some members are already protected by bodyguards and armoured cars and are forced to live in protected an secret houses...

I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired...
Thanks for joining Whodamn! :) We need more Hollanders on this forum. Have you seen our Dutch-language section? Look under "Nordish languages"/"Nederlandse Spraak".

Yes... I am feeling very anxious and sad about the situation in Nederland. My ancestors come from there. It is sacred Germanic land... we will need to do some ethnic cleansing soon....

Whodamn
Tuesday, November 9th, 2004, 07:49 PM
we will need to do some ethnic cleansing soon....

That's not the intention of the ignorant dutch (no capitals for this crap) government. Their latest slogan: we must keep the population together.

On the background i hear our prime minister, Jan Peter Balkenende (no leader, not charismatic, non-decisive) on the television on this very moment: "We must respect each other".
This is his reply on the recent fires in churches and the minor fires and affronts to mosques...

Loki
Tuesday, November 9th, 2004, 07:56 PM
That's not the intention of the ignorant dutch (no capitals for this crap) government. Their latest slogan: we must keep the population together.

On the background i hear our prime minister, Jan Peter Balkenende (no leader, not charismatic, non-decisive) on the television on this very moment: "We must respect each other".
This is his reply on the recent fires in churches and the minor fires and affronts to mosques...
If all the non-whites currently in Netherlands integrate into Dutch society successfully, the Dutch people of the future will be brown - a mixed-race mogrel breed. You don't even need more immigration - even if all immigration was stopped today, Holland will still become a mongrel nation within a few hundred years. Something more drastic needs to be done to protect and preserve Dutch culture.

Whodamn
Tuesday, November 9th, 2004, 08:15 PM
We should distinguish 2 things: integration and assimilation.

Integration=The coloured should learn to speak our language and learn to live in the dutch culture and to adapt it.
Assimilation=Mixing up with the breed.

Some of 'them' want integration (cause: our famous social security and soft legislation), but no assimilation. The whites (at least the most of them) want no integration and almost no assimilation.

So don't be to concerned about a mixed population. Our concern nowadays is a muslim colonization, they 've got already some of them in the parliament, and muslim bridgeheads (ghettos) in the most big cities.

Loki
Tuesday, November 9th, 2004, 08:33 PM
We should distinguish 2 things: integration and assimilation.

Integration=The coloured should learn to speak our language and learn to live in the dutch culture and to adapt it.
Assimilation=Mixing up with the breed.

Some of 'them' want integration (cause: our famous social security and soft legislation), but no assimilation. The whites (at least the most of them) want no integration and almost no assimilation.

So don't be to concerned about a mixed population. Our concern nowadays is a muslim colonization, they 've got already some of them in the parliament, and muslim bridgeheads (ghettos) in the most big cities.In the long term, the racial assimilation of your minorities is inevitable. It is this I am lamenting. It will be a slow tricle of "blood pollution" that will eventually reach every family in the Netherlands. I am talking about centuries. We have to be far-thinking, and not only see the immediate problem. How are you going to stop intermarriage between Dutch people and non-whites? That is the billion-dollar question.

Whodamn
Tuesday, November 9th, 2004, 08:45 PM
Well, there might be a solution 'brewing' already...

Insurrection in Germany is on the way (discontent, unemployment) and may be contagious for the 'dutch'...
WW III: it's not the question if but when it will happen, and the islam will certainly be involved...

I'm very sorry to say these horrible things, but the climate for this has already been created.

I don't know about the limits and freedom of speech on this forum, so please don't mind my 2 cents...

Loki
Tuesday, November 9th, 2004, 08:46 PM
I don't know about the limits and freedom of speech on this forum, so please don't mind my 2 cents...
You are free to speak your mind on The Northern European forum. We are a freedom-of-speech community. :)

Evolved
Tuesday, November 9th, 2004, 10:22 PM
These extremists are the type of people who constantly complain of the West importing degenerate culture, forcing democracy, etc in the Arab/Muslim world, but given the opportunity they would do (or rather, are doing :frown:) the exact same to Europe. It isn't enough that these nations are charitable enough, (to their own detriment even), to allow these "asylum seekers" a place to stay, housing, money for nothing - they want their very sensitive religious sensitivities to be pampered.

This film from all descriptions is tasteless. Showing partially nude women with verses of the Quran on their bodies is the same as painting a picture of the Virgin Mary with elephant shit. It is like showing the Sagas painted in runes on a negro or something. Vulgar, but free speech is free speech. It seems to criticise only one aspect of Islam - the treatment of women - which has been criticised by hundreds of other films, books, websites, and articles around the world.

What we're dealing with is "fundamentalist Muslims" who go to live in a Kafr country with very liberal Kafr laws and who want to gain in finances and quality of life from a society built by the Kufr, but expect the Kufr to modify their laws and society to conform with Shariah law. These people are phonies, wanna-be Jihadis and idiots. No real Mujahid would go live in the Netherlands, the Sodom of Europe.

If they want to live in a country where one can't criticise certain aspects of Islam they should move to Saudi Arabia or Iran.

Whodamn
Tuesday, November 9th, 2004, 10:30 PM
No real Mujahid would go live in the Netherlands, the Sodom of Europe.

Maybe Sodom didn't even exist, but now it does...

Mark my words: colonization of west-europe is their real goal, all these years they got a hidden agenda. So the import of Mujahid, to achieve their goal, could be a reality.

friedrich braun
Tuesday, November 9th, 2004, 10:31 PM
I've already said this on other fora: I don't want any of these turds to either assimiliate or integrate (that's also way I view the recent French legislation outlawing ostentatious religious symbolism as wrongheaded and dangerous). What should be favoured instead is the foreigners’ distinctiveness and separateness from the indigenous Europeans (in this case Dutch) population. Measures that promote or facilitate their assimilation and integration into Dutch society must be avoided and shunned. First, such measures can only increase contacts between Third World animals and the Dutch, and hence miscegenation occurs (among other things). Secondly, by encouraging them to keep their distinctiveness and separateness it will be ultimately easier to deport them when the time comes (and this task must be accomplished sooner rather than later), which is the only realistic objective for the survival of the European man. Only those who are of Euro/Aryan biological stock should have the right to live in Europe.

DEPORT THE LOT!!!

Loki
Tuesday, November 9th, 2004, 10:35 PM
No real Mujahid would go live in the Netherlands, the Sodom of Europe.

For them, it is some sort of aggressive "evangelism". They want to invade us by numbers, and slowly but surely force their disgusting, archaic Islamic customs and culture on us. Islam is pure shit - down with Mohammad and his untermensch armies!

Whodamn
Tuesday, November 9th, 2004, 10:42 PM
And the hits just keep on coming...

Already 400-500 mosques in the netherlands...and a lot of islamic schools (we call them 'black' schools). One of these is burning on this very moment...the islamic community will be very upset. I'm shivering already...

Loki
Tuesday, November 9th, 2004, 10:44 PM
And the hits just keep on coming...

Already 400-500 mosques in the netherlands...and a lot of islamic schools (we call them 'black' schools). One of these is burning on this very moment...the islamic community will be very upset. I'm shivering already...
Yes, I just saw on BBC television....

This is good. We want racial dis-harmony - not integration and assimilation.

Glenlivet
Tuesday, November 9th, 2004, 10:54 PM
But the middle class people in those countries would have the same view as the Dutch. These immigrants (also many of the Turks in the Netherlands and Denmark!) are clearly from the poorer and more backward regions.




If they want to live in a country where one can't criticise certain aspects of Islam they should move to Saudi Arabia or Iran.

Whodamn
Tuesday, November 9th, 2004, 11:05 PM
Yes, there we go again...

On this moment, a church in Boxmeer was set to fire by muslim-scum...

Glenlivet
Tuesday, November 9th, 2004, 11:14 PM
It sounds like the suburbs of some big Swedish cities, mind you though, a good Dutch friend of mine left Netherlands for Sweden because she thought the situation (and she could be right from what I hear) in Netherlands is even worse.

Nordic people are too kind. It is the Nordic character of the Dutch people that make them accept these people who cannot and will not assimilate. Do you think that Dutch will change now after the fire of the Muslim school in Uden too. Violence is the last resort, but they do not seem to understand another language. I hope we will see the same thing happen in Britain again, like it did in Bradford.

I feel that this is not only about religion.




Overcrowded cities, loaded with (coloured) crime, no parking facilities, group rapings of white girls by muslim teens, invidual whites being threatened by muslims...Social security worn out by coloured leechers.

Glenlivet
Tuesday, November 9th, 2004, 11:18 PM
Indeed, although many of the backward behaviours of Arab Muslims is pre-Islamic.

Any civilised country of this day and age would consider Mohammed a pedophile.



Islam is pure shit - down with Mohammad and his untermensch armies!

Whodamn
Tuesday, November 9th, 2004, 11:23 PM
Do you think that Dutch will change now after the fire of the Muslim school in Uden too.

The dutch will change...just for a few weeks. The ignorant and leftwing government wants to keep 'us' together. They want to kill the 'hype' by all means.

We (in a certain way, the rightwing) also hate the EU, for promoting multicultural and devostating bullshit.

Loki
Wednesday, November 10th, 2004, 12:35 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3994539.stm

Dutch bid farewell to film maker

Hundreds of mourners have rallied in Amsterdam during the cremation service for Dutch film maker Theo van Gogh, who was murdered a week ago.

There has been heightened ethnic tension in the Netherlands since he was shot and stabbed to death - allegedly by an Islamic militant.

The ceremony at Amsterdam's Nieuwe Ooster crematorium was televised, but only friends and family were let in.

Van Gogh, 47, had made a controversial film critical of Islamic culture.

Intended to illustrate domestic violence in Muslim societies, it featured images of Koranic verses daubed on semi-naked women.

Several men, all believed to be Islamic radicals, have been arrested in connection with his death. The alleged killer is Mohammed Bouyeri, a 26-year-old Dutch-Moroccan.

Violence

"I fear for the future," said Van Gogh's mother, choking with emotion at the ceremony on Tuesday.

Only about 150 people were allowed to attend, but hundreds of mourners outside the crematorium watched the ceremony on giant screens. It was also broadcast on Dutch NOS public television.

Mosques in several Dutch cities have been the targets of vandalism and failed arson attempts since the killing.

The mayor of Eindhoven ordered extra security for mosques and schools following a bomb blast at an Islamic school which caused serious damage on Monday.

Police are also investigating two petrol bomb attacks on churches in Utrecht and Amersfoort, which caused minor damage early on Tuesday.

Muslim fears

Van Gogh was shot and stabbed to death as he cycled in broad daylight through an Amsterdam street.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40507000/jpg/_40507941_screenap203body.jpg
Mourners watched the funeral on giant outdoor screens

Hundreds of people have left flowers, candles and notes at the spot where he died. They also left cactuses - a tribute to his prickly nature - and bottles of beer.

Several hundred Dutch-Moroccans rallied in a nearby park on Tuesday, many of them wearing orange T-shirts reading "We won't put up with extremism any more".

Muslim leaders say their communities fear further attacks.

After the pre-dawn explosion in Eindhoven, the southern city's mayor, Alexander Sakkers, said additional police patrols would give round-the-clock protection for all Muslim places of worship and education.

Ayhan Tonca, chairman of the Contact Group for Muslims and Government, has insisted that the government do more to protect Islamic sites, to stop fears rising.

Correspondents say that Van Gogh's killing and the violent response have shocked many in the Netherlands.

"The Netherlands is a nation where people ought to want to meet one another, where cultures meet each other," Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende said on Dutch television. "The atmosphere that has arisen must disappear," he said.

Loki
Wednesday, November 10th, 2004, 12:40 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3997943.stm

Dutch Islamic school set ablaze

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40508000/jpg/_40508435_uden_ap203b.jpg
Graffiti on the school wall referred to Van Gogh's death

Suspected arsonists have caused major damage to an Islamic school in the Netherlands amid violence in the wake of film maker Theo van Gogh's murder.

Firefighters battled the blaze at the primary school in the southern town of Uden, where graffiti scrawled on the walls had referred to the killing.

There has been heightened tension since Van Gogh was shot and stabbed last week, allegedly by an Islamic militant.

A funeral was held for Van Gogh, 47, in Amsterdam on Tuesday.

He had made a controversial film, critical of Islamic culture.

Intended to illustrate domestic violence in Muslim societies, it featured images of Koranic verses daubed on semi-naked women.

Several men, all believed to be Islamic radicals, have been arrested in connection with his death. The alleged killer is Mohammed Bouyeri, a 26-year-old Dutch-Moroccan.

Graffiti

No one is reported to have been hurt in the blaze late on Tuesday, but the building is said to have been severely damaged. Graffiti scrawled on Bedir school read: "Theo, rest in peace", Dutch television reported.


Uden Mayor Joke Kersten admitted that the fire bore the indications of arson.

"A school does not ignite spontaneously," she told NOS television, quoted by the AFP news agency.

Mosques in several Dutch cities have been the targets of vandalism and failed arson attempts since the killing.

The mayor of Eindhoven ordered extra security for mosques and schools following a bomb blast at an Islamic school, which caused serious damage on Monday.

Police are also investigating two petrol bomb attacks on churches in Utrecht and Amersfoort, which caused minor damage early on Tuesday.

'Fear for the future'

Van Gogh was shot and stabbed to death as he cycled in broad daylight through an Amsterdam street.

The ceremony at an Amsterdam crematorium was televised, but only friends and family were let in. Hundreds of mourners outside watched the ceremony on giant screens.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40507000/jpg/_40507939_apgogh203copy.jpg
Van Gogh directed TV series and wrote newspaper columns

Van Gogh's father said his son would have deplored the attacks on Muslim targets.

"I fear for the future," his mother said, choking with emotion.

Several hundred Dutch-Moroccans rallied in a nearby park, many of them wearing orange T-shirts reading "We won't put up with extremism any more".

Muslim leaders say their communities fear further attacks.

Correspondents say that Van Gogh's killing and the violent response have shocked many in the Netherlands.

"Let us break through the spiral of violence and insecurity," Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende said on Dutch television.

"The Netherlands has always been a fine country with respect for different cultures," he added.

Whodamn
Wednesday, November 10th, 2004, 12:08 PM
"Let us break through the spiral of violence and insecurity," Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende said on Dutch television.
Spoken by one of the preservators of the multiracial 'cohabitation'.


"The Netherlands has always been a fine country with respect for different cultures," he added.
Yes. Till 35 years ago.

Dr. Brandt
Wednesday, November 10th, 2004, 01:23 PM
[size=2] http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40507000/jpg/_40507939_apgogh203copy.jpg


http://www.businessweek.com/1999/99_45/art45/bw45058.jpg http://www.zdf.de/ZDFde/img/11/0,1886,2178091,00.jpg


They almost look like identical twins. Guess who the guy is I posted? And if he would be allowed to post on TNP?

friedrich braun
Wednesday, November 10th, 2004, 02:15 PM
Dany le Rouge, he's a jew.


http://www.businessweek.com/1999/99_45/art45/bw45058.jpg http://www.zdf.de/ZDFde/img/11/0,1886,2178091,00.jpg


They almost look like identical twins. Guess who the guy is I posted? And if he would be allowed to post on TNP?

Evolved
Wednesday, November 10th, 2004, 02:29 PM
Any civilised country of this day and age would consider Mohammed a pedophile.

This day and age, yes, but not in Europe's Middle Ages or even later.

friedrich braun
Wednesday, November 10th, 2004, 05:23 PM
Favourite quote:

The Amsterdam Council of Churches published paid notices in some Dutch newspapers pledging solidarity with the Muslim community.

The Muslims are burning down their Churches, but the idiotic, feeble Dutch clergy pledges solidarity with their would-be assassins. Typical of the West's overall attitude toward their invaders.


For Dutch, anger battles with tolerance
By Craig S. Smith The New York Times
Thursday, November 11, 2004


AMSTERDAM Anger toward the Netherlands' Muslim community percolated among the crowd that gathered outside the funeral for the Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh, who was killed by an Islamic extremist a week ago.

The public debate over how conservative Islam fits into Europe's most tolerant, liberal society had already become a no-holds-barred affair before the killing of van Gogh, who had publicly and repeatedly used epithets against Muslims. But his killing has now polarized the country, giving the rest of Europe a disturbing glimpse of what may be in store if relations with the continent's growing immigrant communities are not managed more adeptly.

The anger is such that for the second time in two days an Islamic elementary school was attacked Tuesday, this time in Uden, part of what Dutch authorities fear are reprisals after van Gogh's killing, The Associated Press reported. The authorities said that Muslim sites had been the target of a half-dozen attacks in the past week, The AP reported.

In apparent retaliation, arsonists attempted to burn down Protestant churches in Rotterdam, Utrecht and Amersfoort, the news service quoted the police as saying.

The attacks have scratched the patina of tolerance on which the Dutch have long prided themselves, particularly here in their principal city, where the scent of hashish trails in the air, prostitutes beckon from storefront brothels and Hell's Angels live side by side with Hare Krishnas. But many Dutch now say that for years that tradition of tolerance suppressed an open debate about the challenges of integrating conservative Muslims.

Jan Colijn, 46, a bookkeeper from the central Dutch town of Gorinchem who was at the funeral Tuesday night, complained that the Netherlands' generous social welfare system had allowed Muslim immigrants to isolate themselves. Because of that, "there is a kind of Muslim fascism emerging here," he said. "The government must find a way to break these communities open."

Another man, who declined to give his name, was more succinct: "Now, it's war."

For many years, such criticism of Islam and Islamic customs, even among Dutch extremists, was considered taboo, despite deep frustrations that had built up against conservative Islam in the country.

Many here say that began to change after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks in the United States, when the Netherlands, like many countries, began to consider the dangers of political Islam seriously. The debate fueled an anti-immigration movement and helped propel the career of the populist politician Pim Fortuyn, who was murdered by an environmental activist shortly before national elections in 2002.

By all accounts here, Fortuyn's murder removed any remaining brakes on the debate surrounding immigrants.

"After Pim Fortuyn's murder, there were no limitations on what you could say," said Edwin Bakker, a terrorism expert at the Netherlands Institute of International Relations. "It has become a climate in which insulting people is the norm."

He and others said the public discourse, even among members of government, reached an unprecedented pitch and included language that went far beyond the limits set for public forums in the United States.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a member of Parliament and one of a handful of politicians threatened with death by Islamic extremists, publicly called the prophet Muhammad a "pervert" and a "tyrant." She made a film with van Gogh condemning sexual abuse among Muslim women, who were portrayed with Koranic verses written on their bare skin.

Van Gogh himself was one of the most outspoken critics of fundamentalist Muslims and favored an epithet for conservative Muslims that referred to bestiality with a goat. He used the term often in his public statements, including a column he wrote for a widely read free newspaper and during radio broadcasts and television appearances.

The cumulative effect made van Gogh, a distant relation of the painter Vincent van Gogh, a kind of cult clown on one side of the debate, and a reviled hatemonger on the other.

The debate became so caustic that the Dutch intelligence service, AIVD, issued a report in March warning that the unrestrained language could encourage radicalization of the country's Muslim youth and drive individuals into the arms of terrorist recruiters. The agency has warned repeatedly in recent years that such recruiters are active in the Netherlands and elsewhere in Europe.

While only about 20 percent of the Netherlands' estimated 900,000 Muslims practice their religion, according to one government study, officials say as many as 5 percent of Muslims in the country follow a conservative form of Islam. Most are from the Netherlands' Moroccan community, which has its roots in the Rif, an impoverished, mountainous Berber region in the north.

There are about 300,000 people of Moroccan descent in the Netherlands today, and the ratcheting up of the anti-immigration debate has alienated many of them from Dutch society and, many people argue, has also helped fragment the Muslim community.

Jean Tillie, a professor of political science at the University of Amsterdam, says that the debate has broken down a network that connected even the most extremist Muslim groups to the more moderate voices within the Muslim community. He cited an Amsterdam government advisory board that brought together all kinds of Moroccans and fostered communication and cohesion within the Muslim community.

"Those groups participating didn't agree with each other, but they met together with the collective mission of advising the city government," he said.

The board was abolished a year ago, he says, in the wake of the anti-immigration debate. He claims that funds for other ethnic organizations have shrunk and outreach policies have also been abandoned.



At El Tawheed mosque, considered by many people here to be the epicenter of extremism in Amsterdam, Farid Zaari, the mosque's spokesman, argues that pressure from the debate has hindered the Muslim community's ability to control its radical youth.

"If we bring these people into the mosque, it is possible to change their thoughts, but few mosques dare to because if you do, you're branded," he said.

Dutch media reports insist that van Gogh's killer attended the mosque, and though Zaari says the mosque has no record of his ever being there, he said that political leaders and the media should encourage the mosque to reach out to the community's radical youth, rather than stigmatizing it for doing so.



The mosque was previously associated with a Saudi-based charity, Al Haramain, which American and Saudi Arabian officials accused earlier this year of aiding Islamic terrorists. The mosque has since severed its ties with the charity, but more recently it has been criticized for selling books espousing extremist views, including female circumcision and the punishment of homosexuals by throwing them off tall buildings.

Several legislators have called for the mosque to be shut down, but under the Dutch constitution it is difficult to do.

Zaari admits that the Muslim community was slow to respond to the fears within Dutch society. "We didn't feel it was our responsibility to bridge the gap, but now, with the murder, the gap has gotten wider," he said. "All of us want to begin a dialogue now, but the language of the political right is too extreme, and that's preventing discussion," he said. "We all have to cool down and be careful what we say."

The problem is how to bridge a gap that has yawned dangerously since van Gogh's murder.

The Amsterdam Council of Churches published paid notices in some Dutch newspapers pledging solidarity with the Muslim community. But the government's response has been to promise more money for fighting terrorism and stronger immigration laws.

"Islam is the most hated word in the country at this point," said the terrorism expert, Bakker.



Explosion in raid on house

The explosion of a hand grenade during a terrorism-related raid on a house in The Hague on Wednesday wounded three police officers, The Associated Press reported from The Hague.

The Hague's chief prosecutor, Han Moraal, said the raid was part of a "continuing investigation into terrorism" but would not say whether it was related to the killing of van Gogh.

Several city blocks were cordoned off in a mostly immigrant neighborhood near the Holland Spoor train station.

Copyright © 2004 The International Herald Tribune | www.iht.com

Loki
Wednesday, November 10th, 2004, 07:12 PM
Dany le Rouge, he's a jew.
Jews can be of any race and subrace, because they have to a great extent assimilated with their host populations in Europe over the past centuries. That is why we find Jews in Europe who look exactly like the natives. Yes, there are even Nordic Jews.

Loki
Wednesday, November 10th, 2004, 07:57 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3998347.stm

Dutch anti-terror raid nets two

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40509000/jpg/_40509095_policemenap203copy.jpg
Several blocks were sealed off in a mainly immigrant area

A police anti-terror operation in The Hague has ended with the arrest of two suspects after a violent 14-hour siege, Dutch officials say.

Three police officers were wounded in a grenade explosion earlier during the raid. Two of them remain in hospital.

One of the suspects held was injured in the shoulder, officials said.

Earlier, a Muslim school in Uden was burned down - part of a spate of attacks after the murder of film-maker Theo van Gogh, a critic of Islam.

Attacks have targeted Christian and Muslim buildings across the Netherlands. Dutch NOS public television reported that police sent remote-controlled devices into the apartment in The Hague to check for explosives.


Dutch media also reported that a third suspect had been arrested in Utrecht as part of the same investigation.

Van Gogh, murdered in Amsterdam a week ago, had received death threats after the release of his latest film controversially portraying domestic violence in Muslim societies. It showed images of a semi-naked woman with Koranic script daubed on her body.

Six suspects, believed to be members of an Islamic militant group, remain in custody, including the alleged killer, 26-year-old Mohammed Bouyeri, who holds dual Dutch and Moroccan nationality.

Terror alert

The area where the Hague raid took place - near the Holland Spoor train station - was sealed off and airspace immediately over it was closed.

"At the moment of assault, a hand grenade was thrown at the arrest team," said Hague Police Chief Gerard Bouwman. "It exploded and several officers were hurt."

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40508000/jpg/_40508967_uden_ap203b.jpg
"Theo, rest in peace" was scrawled on the Uden school walls

The building was surrounded by police in riot gear, fire engines, ambulances and special forces.

Police evacuated neighbours and they were bussed to local shelters.

Mr Bouwman said one of the injured police officers had been briefly treated and sent home to rest, while the other two remained in hospital, with one seriously wounded.

"No vital organs were hurt, but he suffered considerable injuries," he said.

Mr Bouwman earlier confirmed that police and the suspects had exchanged gunfire.

Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende told parliament that extremism was undermining democracy.

"We cannot let ourselves be blinded by people who seek to drag us into a spiral of violence," he said, according to the Associated Press news agency.

"It is the joint task of Muslims and non-Muslims to warn young people against radicalisation".

Dutch warning to EU

The Dutch Immigration Minister, Rita Verdonk, has warned that EU countries are at risk, because of an increasing radicalism among young Muslims.

She said member states must act urgently to improve the integration of foreigners.

The minister, whose nation holds the EU presidency, said countries must ensure that immigrants learn the local language and accept Western values, but she said the EU also needed to develop, in her words, a common vision of integration. Last week EU leaders agreed to create a common asylum system by 2010 to try to prevent illegal immigration into the EU.

Glenlivet
Wednesday, November 10th, 2004, 11:27 PM
In Sweden:

http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=67141#post67141

A Swede being assaulted by non-Europids (they look quite Negrid to me). They had the nerve to videotape the attack! The police got the video. That neighbourhood is not even some suburb with a bad reputation. That happened in Norrmalm, which is actually a posh part of inner city Stockholm.



The dutch will change...just for a few weeks. The ignorant and leftwing government wants to keep 'us' together. They want to kill the 'hype' by all means.

We (in a certain way, the rightwing) also hate the EU, for promoting multicultural and devostating bullshit.

friedrich braun
Wednesday, November 10th, 2004, 11:39 PM
Diversity is our strength. :suomut:

DEPORT FOREIGNERS!!! MAKE IT HAPPEN!!!





In Sweden:

http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=67141#post67141

A Swede being assaulted by non-Europids (they look quite Negrid to me). They had the nerve to videotape the attack! The police got the video. That neighbourhood is not even some suburb with a bad reputation. That happened in Norrmalm, which is actually a posh part of inner city Stockholm.

friedrich braun
Thursday, November 11th, 2004, 03:36 PM
Via Gene Expression:

An email from a friend of mine in The Netherlands....

[begin email]
In reaction to Bjorn Staerk, I would like to point out that, in contrast with 9/11, the murder of Van Gogh is everything but an isolated incident whose reaction you can measure. Any comparison between the two is, as we say over here, like comparing apples with pears. The attack on the World Trade Center was made by a foreign enemy, suddenly and unannounced, as it happens orchastrated by some rich boy from Saudi Arabia who got pissed off about the Americans supporting Israël and having soldiers on 'holy ground' (a good thing, mind you). On the other hand there is the Dutch population, who have been attacked, harresed, intimitated and made to feel a stranger in our own country for decades. This isn't a case of one man or a group of extremists who held a grudge against Theo Van Gogh, since nearly every Muslim in Holland disagrees with his given right to criticize, or 'insult' Islam. They don't "approve" of the murder, but they "understand why it happened". In other words, a silent consent. Made by people who, be it by violence or by openly rejecting violence, already know that it doesn't matter. If supporting freedom of speech is the common opinion in Holland now, it won't be in 40 years time. What's happening in Holland, and in the rest of Europe (think of France and its 300 lawless ghettos) is a fundamental invasion of one of the most free and social societies in the world, by those making use of those very same liberties and privillages to cause a demographic, and eventually a theocratical revolution. You're being attacked by Islam; we are becoming Islam. Numbers of victims or of the population involved may sound interesting and lead to judgements about our intolerance (intolerant Dutch, talk about stereotypes!), fact remains that the current situation is not a simple equation of people against burning mosques.

David van Ofwegen.

Philosophy student, Leiden.

Comment:

Western Europe will either have to reawaken their survival instincts or slowly be assimilated into the borg of islam. Once assimilation is through there is no going back.

All of civilization in that part of the world will come to an abrupt end. The people can expect to live in a world much like pre 9.11 Afghanistan. No color, no music, no art, no hope or charity, no beauty or serenity anywhere. All there will be is small places of secrecy where individuals will write and draw in secrecy. On pain of brutal punishment if caught.

What a world to eventually wake up to.

Personally I think I would be looking for a time warp/portal desparately to get away from such a monstrous entity.

http://www.gnxp.com/

Whodamn
Thursday, November 11th, 2004, 03:51 PM
Personally I think I would be looking for a time warp/portal desparately to get away from such a monstrous entity

I'll keep an eye on e-bay :laugh:

Loki
Thursday, November 11th, 2004, 10:31 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4004313.stm

Dutch announce anti-terror steps

By Geraldine Coughlan
BBC News, The Hague
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/999999.gif

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40516000/jpg/_40516285_bedirfire_ap.203jpg.jpg
Attacks on Christian and Muslim buildings have heightened tensions

The Dutch government has stepped up measures against alleged Islamic extremists, amid calls for Queen Beatrix to unite the people.

It comes as ethnic tensions mounted after a siege in The Hague on Wednesday in which four police officers were hurt by a grenade and two suspects arrested.

The Dutch parliament has begun a debate over the murder of a film-maker last week by a suspected Muslim radical.

It set off a series of retaliatory attacks on Islamic and Christian sites.

Infiltrate networks

The right-wing maverick politician Geert Wilders opened the debate by calling for radical mosques to be closed down and their imams to be deported.

He said there were about 100,000 radical Muslims in the Netherlands and that they should abide by Dutch democracy or leave the country.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40512000/jpg/_40512785_siege203ap.jpg
Queen Beatrix has been urged to call for unity after anti-terror arrests

The government has announced new measures to combat violent extremism, including increasing security services and more money to protect people and buildings.

The government is also to consider stripping immigrants with dual nationality of their Dutch citizenship when they "act against the interests of the state".

There have been calls for Queen Beatrix to help calm tensions as attacks on mosques and churches have continued.

Ahead of the parliamentary debate, Justice Minister Piet Hein Donner announced new steps to make it easier to infiltrate terrorist networks. He said the film-maker Theo Van Gogh's murder and the arrest this week of 13 terror suspects clearly showed more powers were needed to combat terrorism.

friedrich braun
Friday, November 12th, 2004, 03:39 PM
More from Gene Expression:


... and I say you'll die from it. This latest article by Dutch columnist Mark Spaan in The Guardian is the latest example of tolerance taken way too far. Spaan states, "Few are aware that in the near future as much as 15% of the Netherlands' population will be Muslim. The old Dutch society so craved by Pim Fortuyn no longer exists. We will have to live with the one we've got." Not only that, the so-called "defenders" of free speech over at Index on Censorship claim that the criticisms van Gogh made of Islam were an "abuse of his right to free speech" and stop just short of saying that van Gogh deserved what he got.

Tolerance has been taken way too far. It has reached the point where there is no tolerance for non-violent criticisms of minority cultural groups, but violent attacks by members of those very groups are tolerated and even apologized for. Of course, this is nothing new to readers of this blog and many others, but it never ceases to astound me how naive some people are. Every day in classes, in newspapers, and in books I read, there is some delusional fool expounding on the glories of Islamic Civilization while at the same time demonizing Western Civilization. They act as if medieval Islamic and Western Civilizations are accurate representations as to how they are today.

The Mufti of Australia stated last February that he believes Australia was discovered by Muslims and you can find literally hundreds of websites that claim that Muslims discovered America (and let me point out that by "discover" I recognize that I am ignoring the migrations and settlement of peoples thousands of years beforehand). The purpose of this is generally to undermine the West's claims to having discovered them. I can imagine sometime in the near future some Islamist group will start claiming that Australia and the US are in fact Muslim territories because members of their religion might have discovered it, at which point tons of leftists and "human rights" do-gooders will grasp onto this cause and start helping them out. That's just how insane this whole thing is.

Aistulf
Saturday, November 13th, 2004, 12:48 AM
http://www.businessweek.com/1999/99_45/art45/bw45058.jpg http://www.zdf.de/ZDFde/img/11/0,1886,2178091,00.jpg


They almost look like identical twins. Guess who the guy is I posted? And if he would be allowed to post on TNP?
They don't look like each other at all, you're looking too much at the hair style.


I'll get back to this thread tomorrow.

Dr. Brandt
Saturday, November 13th, 2004, 07:20 AM
He said there were about 100,000 radical Muslims in the Netherlands and that they should abide by Dutch democracy or leave the country.

what a "Rightwinger" :rolleyes:

so as long as they "abide by dutch democracy" they are free to stay, integrate, mingle and breed with Europeans?
To hell with them! Kick ALL foreigners out regardless of religion. And start with the Jews who controll the diamondtrade!!

Whodamn
Saturday, November 13th, 2004, 10:03 AM
so as long as they "abide by dutch democracy" they are free to stay, integrate, mingle and breed with Europeans?

Yes, and also free to leech our social security system, among others. (The killer of Theo van Gogh didn't work at all, he received a social security payment every month, like the most of the muslim-scab)

The covered statement of the Dutch Government: "Muslim colonization: fine, but without terrorist assaults..."

It's beyond science-fiction but true. So the dutch white population can kiss their asses goodbye...

Oskorei
Saturday, November 13th, 2004, 11:13 AM
In Sweden:

http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=67141#post67141

A Swede being assaulted by non-Europids (they look quite Negrid to me). They had the nerve to videotape the attack! The police got the video. That neighbourhood is not even some suburb with a bad reputation. That happened in Norrmalm, which is actually a posh part of inner city Stockholm.

Apparently the most active perpetrator is a 22-yearold elite football-player. Guess they cant use the poverty-excuse for his actions then... "negroes only commit more crimes because they are so poor". :icon_arro

Loki
Saturday, November 13th, 2004, 03:28 PM
It's beyond science-fiction but true. So the dutch white population can kiss their asses goodbye...
It is already too late for preservation on national levels in Europe. We will have to think of alternative solutions to safeguard the existence of our kind. That is the main challenge...

Loki
Saturday, November 13th, 2004, 03:40 PM
Mosque set on fire in Netherlands (http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=67409#post67409)

Loki
Saturday, November 13th, 2004, 03:56 PM
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,175-1356074,00.html

November 13, 2004



Dutch dilemma


The Netherlands must move fast to counter extremism


http://images.thetimes.co.uk/images/trans.gifThe explosion of violence across the Netherlands that has followed the barbaric murder of the film-maker Theo van Gogh has left at least 18 schools, churches and mosques damaged, a wave of anti-Muslim feeling and a bewildered nation angry and fearful. A country that had one of the proudest European traditions of tolerance and social harmony now finds itself locked in bitter confrontation with a large and alienated minority.

Until the murder two years ago of Pim Fortuyn, the right-wing populist who denounced Muslim intolerance, any discussion of difficulties in integrating largely poor and poorly educated immigrants was taboo. The liberal consensus refused to consider the growing antagonisms in the ghettos forming in the big cities, and little attempt was made to ensure that immigrants learnt Dutch or were grounded in the nation’s values, of which tolerance of diversity has been paramount.

NI_MPU('middle');Immigration issues, and race relations more broadly, have become a defining issue for the centre-right Government of Jan Peter Balkenende, the Prime Minister, which has moved swiftly to step up surveillance of known Islamist extremists and insist on compulsory language and citizenship tests.

Yesterday parliament asked the Government to draft legislation compelling Dutch mosques to employ only imams who had graduated from Islamic study courses in the Netherlands. It also demanded the shut-down of websites that carried messages of religious hatred, and to improve the monitoring of foreign imams who preached in the 500 mosques in the country. The Government argued that such actions would be seen as discriminatory unless applied to all religious groups equally. It is certainly correct not to presume that all Muslims are extremists, but a minority are homophobic, misogynistic and contemptuous of traditional Dutch tolerance. The Netherlands is close to Britain politically and culturally, and it is important that this country draws appropriate lessons. Like the Dutch, the British pride themselves on welcoming newcomers and on attitudes that reflect a global outlook. But Britain should not become prisoner, as the Netherlands has, to a “consensus” that stifles debate. This country also has a sizeable Muslim minority, but more has been done to inculcate values and make clear that all have a responsibility to participate politically and economically in British society. The Dutch have made some effort to tackle alienation among young Muslims, but not mopnitored closely enough the activities of an extreme few. Both countries now have much to do. In Britain, at least, the emergence of a responsible Muslim umbrella group to counter the ravings of those preaching hatred has, in recent months, eased tensions. In the Netherlands, communal relations are still too inflamed. Mr Balkenende must move fast to shore up the tolerance for which his country was once famous. It was the dishonesty in not acknowledging that this was under threat which has led to the present conflict.

Aistulf
Saturday, November 13th, 2004, 08:48 PM
what a "Rightwinger" :rolleyes:

so as long as they "abide by dutch democracy" they are free to stay, integrate, mingle and breed with Europeans?
To hell with them! Kick ALL foreigners out regardless of religion.
The government and media apparatus has initiated even harshes indoctrination as of recent. We hear little to nothing about Theo van Gogh anymore, it's all "poor muslims their school was burned down by evil racists" now... All of this before any suspects were arrested. I guess it's "morally correct" to speculate about this sort of things, that is when you blame "whitey" :mad:



And start with the Jews who controll the diamondtrade!!
If that was the only thing jews controlled, I doubt they would have been so hated.

Loki
Saturday, November 13th, 2004, 10:44 PM
http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3379357

Islamic terrorism in Europe

After Van Gogh

Nov 11th 2004 | AMSTERDAM, BERLIN, BRUSSELS AND PARIS
From The Economist print edition


Hollandse Hoogtehttp://www.economist.com/images/20041113/4604EU1.jpg


Europeans ponder how the tolerant can best deal with the intolerant

“THE jihad has come to the Netherlands.” That was the verdict of Jozias van Aartsen, a leading Dutch Christian Democrat, after the violence following last week's murder in Amsterdam of Theo van Gogh, a film-maker, by a Muslim radical. Attacks on mosques and Muslim schools were met by retaliatory attacks on churches. A raid on a terrorist cell in The Hague turned into a street battle featuring hand grenades and wounded policemen, before two suspects were arrested.

This sorry tale raises a big issue not just in the Netherlands, but across Europe: how far should liberal societies tolerate the intolerant? For 20 years the instinct of many has been to defend the rights and cultures of growing numbers of Muslim immigrants, even radicals. Any other approach, it was feared, would pander to racists. But both multiculturalism and tolerance are now under broad attack.

In the Netherlands, Pim Fortuyn, a gay maverick, popularised the argument that Muslim immigrants were promoting values inimical to Dutch traditions. When he was murdered in 2002, his political movement all but collapsed. But some of his arguments found a new advocate in Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a female Somali immigrant and former Muslim who is now a liberal member of parliament. She urges the Dutch to insist forcefully on the superiority of western liberal values. Ms Hirsi Ali was threatened, along with Mr Van Gogh, after they made a film together that attacked Islamic fundamentalists' treatment of women.

Voters are also turning to a new champion, Geert Wilders, a renegade member of parliament thrown out by the liberals. Polls show that his party-in-the-making might win 7-17 seats if an election were held now, largely thanks to his attacks on Islam. The government urges restraint; but it is tightening immigration controls and cracking down on Islamic extremists.

In France, Nicolas Sarkozy, now finance minister but once interior minister, commented recently that “whether I like it or not, Islam is the second biggest religion in France. So you've got to integrate it by making it more French.” His government has a two-pronged approach to its 5m-strong Muslim population. It has tried to contain the radicalism of Islamists by co-opting them. And it has used a tough security regime to curb troublemakers.

To the first end, Mr Sarkozy last year set up the French Council of the Muslim Faith, an official voice for French Islam. When hardliners won elections to its regional branches and governing council, he said this was no disaster: it was best to bring such groups out of the shadows. Yet his strategy has had mixed results. A power-struggle rages in the council, threatening moderates. But one mark of the council's success was the reaction to the seizure in Iraq of two French journalists whose captors want the repeal of a ban on the headscarf in state schools. All shades of French Islam condemned the capture.

France has a strikingly harsh anti-terrorism policy. It has had no qualms in making the most of laws allowing the detention of terrorist suspects without trial for months on end. All four of its nationals repatriated from Guantánamo Bay were detained on a judge's instruction on their return to France. Dominique de Villepin, Mr Sarkozy's successor as interior minister, has been unyielding in his determination to expel imams guilty of hate crimes. When an expulsion order against Abdelkader Bouziane, an Algerian cleric based near Lyon, was overruled in the courts, Mr de Villepin changed the law—and Mr Bouziane was on the next plane out.

For Mr de Villepin, the trade-off between security and civil liberties is a fine one. But he insists “we must never find ourselves in a position of powerlessness.” The French monitor activity at mosques across the country, reckoning that of 1,500 Muslim prayer places, some 50 preach a radical form of Islam. This need not mean violence, but Mr de Villepin urges vigilance: “radical Islam can be used as a breeding ground for terrorism.” The French are also keen to co-operate with other European countries, fearful that their tough regime might otherwise move the problem to “softer” neighbours. With this in mind, Mr de Villepin has secured agreement with Britain, Germany, Italy and Spain to share intelligence on radical Islamists who attend training camps.

In Germany, home to 3.5m Muslims, over three times as many as the Netherlands, fears of violence and jihad are somewhat smaller. Admittedly, Islamic extremists could hit anywhere, but most Muslims in Germany are from Turkey (2.6m) or Bosnia (170,000), and espouse a more moderate form of Islam. Police have found few links between Islamic groups in Germany and the Netherlands. Yet Germany is not oblivious to the threat. As in France, the government is getting tougher on Islamic fundamentalists, even as it tries to foster integration. This double strategy underpins Germany's new immigration law: it facilitates the expulsion of Islamic radicals, but also makes language classes mandatory for immigrants.

In the same spirit, EU immigration ministers, meeting in the Netherlands, signed up on November 10th to common principles, both tender and tough, for integrating newcomers. They must be helped to take part in peaceful politics; faith must be respected, but not used to curb freedom.

In Germany, as elsewhere, there is now more emphasis on toughness. In October, after four years of legal manoeuvring, Germany ejected Metin Kaplan, the Turkish founder of an illegal Islamic group. There is less tolerance for radical Islamists using legal tricks to stay in Germany. The rule of law must “show its edge”, says Otto Schily, the interior minister.

After the Van Gogh murder, calls for Europe's open societies to be more aggressive towards Islamic radicals can only get louder. “Militant Islamism is only a tiny force in Europe”, wrote the conservative Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, “yet it is dangerous, because many societies on this continent have elevated their defencelessness into a virtue.” Yet the risk is that, rather than the intolerant learning tolerance, the tolerant become intolerant too.

friedrich braun
Sunday, November 14th, 2004, 04:55 AM
DEPORT ALL NON-EUROPEANS NOW!!! YOU CAN MAKE IT HAPPEN!!!

Dutch Muslims Dismayed by Anti-Islamic Backlash

THE HAGUE (Reuters) - Selami Aydin's words will comfort many Dutch people if opinion polls are to be believed.

"I'm thinking of going back to Turkey. Seriously," the 39-year-old Muslim said just a few hundred meters (yards) from the apartment police stormed last Wednesday after a 14-hour siege with suspected Islamic militants. "We're all frightened."

The Netherlands' image as the land of tolerance has been shattered in the two weeks since outspoken filmmaker Theo van Gogh was murdered and a Muslim suspect arrested in the crime.

Since Van Gogh's death on Nov. 2 there have been at least 20 arson attacks on mosques and churches in tit for tat violence.


A Muslim school was damaged by a bomb on Monday, another set ablaze on Tuesday. There have been a number of minor arson attacks on churches and a classroom at a Catholic school in Eindhoven was destroyed by fire on Wednesday.


In the latest suspected arson attack on Saturday, a small mosque in the south was destroyed by fire.


Opinion polls show the majority of Dutch people are uncomfortable with or feel threatened by the presence of foreigners, while support is surging for Geert Wilders, seen as heir to murdered anti-immigration politician Pim Fortuyn.


Aydin's comments are not typical of all Muslims in the working class Laakkwartier district of the Hague, but most are dismayed by the reaction to Van Gogh's death.


Some say racism has been on the rise since Fortuyn's party surged to second in a 2002 election shortly after he was killed by an animal rights activist and has ratcheted up a notch in the past two weeks.


"I think it's got worse," said 18-year-old Dutch-Moroccan Adbelmounir el Idrissi. "I was in a shop the other day and a man butted in the queue. I told him to go to the end. He said: 'Are you going to shoot me if I don't?"'


Others are annoyed that the arrest of Mohammed B., the man accused of killing Van Gogh, and other suspected Islamic radicals has stirred a debate they say is critical of all Muslims, who make up about 6 percent of the Dutch population and are mostly concentrated in cities.


No one interviewed said they condoned the killing of Van Gogh, but many believe his short film "Submission," about violence against women in Islamic society, simply fuelled anti-Muslim sentiment, although few people in the Netherlands actually appear to have seen it.


"If we have an opinion, we might share it with our friends, but putting all this on television does nothing to help. Besides, it's about something that supposedly happens outside the Netherlands," said Dutch-Moroccan Kassim Douiri, 18.


SEARCH FOR HEALING


There is criticism of the government, including Jozias van Aartsen, parliamentary leader of the power-sharing VVD liberals, who said in a parliamentary debate on Thursday seizing militants was task No. 1 and dialogue with mainstream Muslims was second.


In the El Mohsinin mosque's large prayer room, a sermon urges those gathered not to take the law into their own hands.


"The Koran means living together," says 60-year-old Achmed Akasar who arrived from Morocco 36 years ago.


Some Muslims believe the community itself can help to build bridges. One of Germany's largest Muslim groups plans to hold an unprecedented protest against militancy later this month with up to 30,000 demonstrators.


"The Dutch government should organize something like this, but maybe we can do it ourselves. I would join in," said Douiri.


A mosque in the southern town of Den Bosch is encouraging non-Muslims to attend its Eid al-Fitr festival, ending the Muslim fasting month of Ramadan, on Sunday. For most Muslims the festival started on Saturday.


"We'll be offering food and drink and hope people will come to talk and to celebrate," said Deniz Ozkanli, chairman of the Orhan Gazi mosque.


"It's been open in previous years, but this year we really want to reach everyone, so we'll be out with flyers and placards. A lot of people are afraid, but a lot of people also want to talk."





© Copyright Reuters Ltd. All rights reserved. The information contained In this news report may not be published, broadcast or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of Reuters Ltd.


11/13/2004 18:47
RTR

Loki
Sunday, November 14th, 2004, 02:58 PM
From http://www.telegraph.co.uk/

'We have let things slip, and let extremists live under our noses'

By Elizabeth Day
(Filed: 14/11/2004)

The streets of Rotterdam are silent apart from a whistling wind. Flickering neon signs advertising Halal butchers and falafel bars punctuate the grey facades of the tower blocks.

Splintered glass from a broken window that no one has bothered to repair is slowly trampled into the autumn leaves. In the distance, a mosque's minarets pierce the fog and drizzle.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2004/11/14/wneth14.jpg
Theo van Gogh

Almost half the population of Rotterdam is of non-Dutch origin and the city is studded by grim ghettoes. Fifteen-year-old Rafih Bourdin has hunched his shoulders up against the cold. His head is wrapped in a red bandana and covered by a heavy, hooded top that almost entirely obscures his eyes.

"Things are going to change for the worse," he says, his breath like cigarette smoke against the cold air. "We have less respect for each other. Because Mohammed Bouyeri killed van Gogh, the white Dutch now feel that all Muslims are responsible. They are looking at us differently."

The Netherlands, with its reputation for liberalism, tolerance and freedom of speech, has never been so divided. Since the murder of the filmmaker Theo van Gogh by a radical Muslim a fortnight ago, the country's 30-year-old experiment in tolerant multi-culturalism has begun to fail.

Van Gogh, an outspoken public figure and critic of Islam, was gunned down and stabbed to death (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/11/03/wgogh03.xml) while cycling to work in Amsterdam on November 2.

Mohammed Bouyeri, a 26-year-old Dutch Moroccan, allegedly shot his victim six times, knifed him as he lay dying and impaled a note of Islamic quotations on his body.

When the police arrived, they discovered that the corpse had been almost decapitated.

Van Gogh's latest film, Submission, had caused a firestorm of controversy. It featured a Muslim woman in a see-through burqa telling how her husband violently abused her. Koranic texts condoning family abuse were painted on her naked body.

His murder came only two years after the assassination of Pym Fortuyn, the populist anti-immigration politician who was killed by an animal rights extremist of ethnic Dutch origin. Mr Fortuyn found his best support in Rotterdam. But even on the streets of Amsterdam - for so long a bastion of liberalism - the feeling is that multi-culturalism has gone too far.

"We have been too tolerant," says Joyce de Witt, 39, an office worker from Diemen, a town south of Amsterdam. "We need tougher immigration policies. For 20 or 30 years, we have let things slip and let extremists live under our noses.

"Dutch society is segregated because a lot of first generation immigrants didn't learn our language and passed on this separateness to their children."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2004/11/14/wneth14a.jpg
Several Islamic schools have been firebombed

The "separateness" of the one million Muslims, who form almost six per cent of the Dutch population, was underlined last week by a spiral of ethnic violence.

In the tense aftermath of van Gogh's funeral, up to 20 Islamic primary schools and mosques in the Netherlands have been vandalised or firebombed. Yesterday, a small mosque in the small southern town of Helden was burnt down. No one was injured. Bouyeri's arrest was swiftly followed by the apprehension of six others, who allegedly were linked to Muslim militants in Switzerland.

A police raid in The Hague on a suspected terrorist cell, meanwhile, ended in the arrest of two men after a 15-hour siege. Before 200 police in riot gear stormed the alleged hideout, four officers were wounded by a hand grenade.

Beneath the bullet-riddled windows of 92 Autheunsstraat, residents remain shocked by the extremism. "I feel a stranger in my own country," says Jeff Vaessens, 70, a retired civil servant. "I'm afraid now when I go for a walk." He drops his voice to a whisper. "There are too many Muslims."

Although he might feel isolated, Mr Vaessens is far from alone. A poll after van Gogh's murder found that 40 per cent of Dutch people "hope" that the Muslim population "no longer feels at home here". Eighty per cent of respondents, aged between 15 and 80, called for harsher measures to force immigrants to integrate.

Rita Verdonk, the immigration minister, had already responded to such fears with policies aimed at limiting the influx of immigrants and making them learn Dutch. Still the national mood has turned ugly.

Right-wing political parties have seen a spike in popularity. Mr Fortuyn's party - the Lijst Pym Fortuyn (LPF) - has been inundated with calls. Cobbled together on an ad hoc basis shortly before the Dutch general election in May 2002, it became all but invisible after his death. Now, it is resurgent.

"We have received a lot of reaction from all over the country," says Agnes Leewis, an LPF spokesman. "Now that van Gogh has been murdered, a lot of people are coming to us, saying that Fortuyn was right all along."

It is little wonder that Muslims feel that their position is precarious. Outside Bouyeri's home - its door now boarded up by police - 29-year-old Otman Manar says that "things have got more difficult for us all because of him".

He says: "I get verbal abuse in the streets now from white Dutch ladies and that would never have happened before. Islam is a peaceful religion, but now we Moroccan Muslims have to work much harder for acceptance."

Ed van Thijn, a former mayor of Amsterdam and Labour minister of the interior, believes that there is little prospect of intelligent dialogue at the moment. "I don't agree that we have been too tolerant," he says.

"Until now, the Dutch attitude has been one of indifference. There is a lack of integration, a lack of knowledge of other cultures and a tendency to generalise after September 11 and blame all of Islam for one extremist action. We need to work and talk together to fight that small minority."

At the Naser Mosque in West Rotterdam, they are in no mood for togetherness. As worshippers leave afternoon prayers, several broad-shouldered young men are deployed to guard the street.

They greet any questions with a suspicious glare. "We have been forced to protect ourselves," one of them says, unsmiling. "We show people respect, but we do not get that respect back."

In the most tolerant nation in Europe, it seems that tolerance is rapidly running out.

Loki
Sunday, November 14th, 2004, 03:08 PM
A poll after van Gogh's murder found that 40 per cent of Dutch people "hope" that the Muslim population "no longer feels at home here".
Definitely a positive development!

friedrich braun
Monday, November 15th, 2004, 04:09 PM
Mini clash of civilizations
By Arnaud de Borchgrave
Published November 15, 2004

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The Netherlands has long been Europe's most permissive society -- everything from window-shopping in Amsterdam for scantily clad hookers (50 to 80 Euros for 15 to 30 minutes) to hashish aroma in marijuana smoke-filled cafes. The government and the sex workers union protect some 30,000 women. The pimps are landlords and the aging prostitutes are quickly replaced with a steady influx from the former Soviet republics and East European countries.
A Dutch brothel chain is suing the government for failing to green-light the "Yum Yum Caviar Club" at Schiphol Airport "to cater to stressed travelers in transit." The government responded that plans for an airport bordello were on hold pending new building and space in the departure areas.
It was such Dutch tolerance, pragmatism and guilt about the country's colonial past that allowed hundreds of thousands of immigrants from Muslim Indonesia (a Dutch colony from the 17th century until World War II) to flood into tiny Holland. Today, Muslims are a majority among children under 14 in the Netherlands' four largest cities.
There are 1 million Muslims (6 percent of the population) now living in Europe's most crowded small country. Some 30,000 new Muslims arrive every year. They tend to live among themselves, with their own schools, mosques and restaurants. Most are horrified by what they view as sacrilegious in their own religion. Their imams speak no Dutch and know nothing of the Netherlands' history and culture.
Western Europe as a whole gets about half a million new Muslims a year. Most make their way from sub-Sahara Africa and North Africa, illegal immigrants smuggled by boat to Spain and Italy where they are free to travel with impunity to the rest of Europe. Thus, Europe's Muslim population has doubled to 20 million in the last 10 years.
The anti-Muslim backlash spawned far right-wing parties. Belgium's highest court this week ruled the anti-immigration Flemish Bloc party -- the most popular political force in Dutch-speaking Flanders -- will lose the government subsidies allocated to all parties, and is now forced to disband. It quickly renamed itself the Flemish Interest Party, and toned down its inflammatory rhetoric.
Europe's largest mosque is in Rotterdam, which is also Europe's busiest port. Half the people there are of foreign origin. Unemployment among the Muslims is high. And the Dutch live-and-let-live permissiveness made this nation, a quarter of it below sea level and protected by 1,500 dikes, ideal breeding grounds for Muslim fundamentalism and the kind of extremism that spawned one of Osama bin Laden's European fan clubs. But for years the government was in denial about Islamist extremism in what is otherwise a well-managed society.
Dutch Muslims, repelled by the freewheeling lifestyle, sought solace with radical imams in the mosques. There men outnumber women. And women are relegated to a part of the mosque where they can be neither seen nor heard.
What Dutch filmmaker and columnist Theo Van Gogh saw as the shabby treatment of females throughout the Muslim community led him to produce documentaries that portrayed Muslim men as tormentors of women, especially their wives. One recent scathingly critical Van Gogh film's carried the message that Islam promotes violence against women. Last week, Van Gogh, a grandnephew of the painter, was shot as he cycled to work. He managed to get up and stagger across the street to his building where he collapsed. The assailant followed him and slit his throat before pinning to his chest with a knife a five-page manifesto that called on Muslims to rise against the "infidel enemies" in the West.
Dutch security authorities launched a nationwide manhunt for the murderer of the popular Van Gogh. A hand grenade injured four policemen as they went after two suspects in a working-class district of The Hague. Air space over the capital was closed for a day as Dutch Special Forces lay siege to a building and the two surrendered after a 14-hour standoff.
Ten others were arrested, including the prime suspect, a Muhammad Bouyeri, a 26-year-old Dutch Moroccan, who was charged with murder and suspected links to an al Qaeda group. A two-time visitor to Saudi Arabia, he had doffed Western clothes in favor of Arab dress.
Both Mr. Bouyeri and his close friend Samir Azzouz, 18, another Dutch Moroccan, moved between five apartments in an Amsterdam suburb favored by Islamist radicals. They were on Dutch intelligence's terrorist watch list as they communicated with like-minded extremist cells throughout Western Europe.
Last year, Mr. Azzouz was stopped in Ukraine and turned back as he made his way to Chechnya to fight the Russians. Released by the Dutch and then rearrested because bomb-making equipment and detailed maps of public buildings were found with his fingerprints, he is in jail awaiting trial.
Tit-for-tat terrorism quickly followed Van Gogh's assassination in widely scattered parts of the otherwise peaceful Netherlands. An arson attack against a Muslim school was followed in the same village of Uden by a Muslim attack against a primary school that was set ablaze and completely gutted. Then a small bomb damaged a Muslim school in Eindhoven. A score of mosques and churches were targeted by arson attacks in one week. Two young men were also arrested for putting a video on the Internet that promised 72 virgins in paradise for the "beheading" of Geert Wilders, a popular right-wing politician who decries the dangers of radical Islam.
Two years ago, Pim Fortuyn, a populist politician who called for a halt to immigration, by simply saying the Netherlands was "full," was similarly gunned down.
Over the past year, the presence of 1,300 Dutch troops in Iraq triggered repeated threats from Muslim groups. Last summer, a last will and testament was found when an 18-year-old man of Moroccan-born parents was arrested for plotting terrorist attacks in the Netherlands. The list of targets included the Dutch parliament, Schiphol and the nuclear reactor at Borssele. Floor plans of several public buildings were also found. The former student wrote in his will he wants his newborn son to live "in the spirit of jihad."
Described by a police psychiatrist as "fearless and fatalistic," the student "gradually fell under the spell of ideas about the oppression of Islam." During a court hearing, his family remained seated as all present rose when the judge entered. The mother was covered in a head-to-toe chador in Muslim fundamentalist fashion.
Islamist extremists even penetrated the Dutch intelligence service with a double agent. One officer was arrested last September. The government hastily drafted a Patriot Act-like law which enables it to strip citizens of their citizenship and deport them if they engage in extremist acts.
Could the Netherlands be a curtain-raiser for a wider clash of civilizations in the old Continent? Hundreds of thousands of young Muslims in Europe are potential jihadis, according to European intelligence chiefs speaking not for publication. They have been warning their political masters about the tinderboxes that many Muslim communities have become. Jihadi volunteers are known to have left for Iraq from a number of Muslim slums on the outskirts of major European cities.
Recruitment posters come on regular European and Arabic news programs -- from the Abu Ghraib prison pictures to the battle of Fallujah.

Arnaud de Borchgrave is editor at large of The Washington Times and of United Press International.

DreamWalker
Tuesday, November 16th, 2004, 01:27 AM
Unfortunately, too many citizens are as lemming-like as American lemmings, wanting to integrate them rather than deport them all;

"We have been too tolerant," says Joyce de Witt, 39, an office worker from Diemen, a town south of Amsterdam. "We need tougher immigration policies. For 20 or 30 years, we have let things slip and let extremists live under our noses.

"Dutch society is segregated because a lot of first generation immigrants didn't learn our language and passed on this separateness to their children."

friedrich braun
Friday, November 19th, 2004, 09:12 PM
AP Interview: Popular Dutch lawmaker urges halt to non-Western immigrants, shutting down radical mosques
- ANTHONY DEUTSCH, Associated Press Writer
Friday, November 19, 2004


(11-19) 11:36 PST THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) --

One of the most popular politicians in the Netherlands said Friday the country's democracy is under threat and called for a five-year halt to non-Western immigration in the wake of the killing of a Dutch filmmaker by a suspected Muslim radical.

"We are a Dutch democratic society. We have our own norms and values," right-wing lawmaker Geert Wilders told The Associated Press in an interview. "If you chose radical Islam you can leave, and if you don't leave voluntarily then we will send you away. This is the only message possible."

In his first interview with the foreign media since the slaying of filmmaker Theo van Gogh on Nov. 2, Wilders said his own life has been repeatedly threatened. He said he has begun living under state protection and has even had to stay away from his own home.

Wilders split with the free-market coalition partner Liberal Party two months ago because it backed the candidacy of predominantly Muslim Turkey for the European Union.

He formed his own conservative party, the Wilders Group, which has one seat in the 150-member parliament. But a recent poll suggested his anti-immigrant message was reverberating through the electorate, and he would win 24 seats if elections were held today -- up from 19 seats before Van Gogh's murder.

Wilders said that without swift, bold action, Islamic fundamentalism will topple the country's democratic system.

"The Netherlands has been too tolerant to intolerant people for too long," he said. "We should not import a retarded political Islamic society to our country. There is nothing to be ashamed of to say this. It's not Islam. I speak out against the facts."

In Brussels, Belgium, European Union leaders met Friday to discuss immigration, one of Europe's most pressing and sensitive issues. EU justice and interior ministers agreed to demand that new immigrants learn the language of their adopted countries and adhere to "European values" to guide them toward better integration.

Even as the number of immigrants arriving in Europe falls due to tougher policies, led by a sharp drop in the Netherlands, Wilders said closing the borders isn't enough. Newcomers should be forced to integrate.

"If in a mosque there is recruitment for jihad, it's not a house of prayer, it's a house of war. If it's not a house of prayer, it should be closed down," he said.

Wilders, known for his radical positions and peroxide-blond hair, has been a member of parliament since 1998. He was born and educated in the southern city Venlo, near the German border.

"I'm very tough on radical Islam. I have the toughest ideas on beating this problem and I'm proud of it. I say nothing wrong. I'm no racist, no anti-Islamist," he said.

Wilders and the police took the death threats more seriously following the slaying of Van Gogh, who had produced a television drama critical of how women are treated in some Muslim societies. The filmmaker was shot and stabbed to death, allegedly by a 26-year-old suspected Islamic extremist who holds Dutch and Moroccan citizenship.

The most recent threats were disclosed when two terror suspects, arrested Nov. 10 after a standoff in which several policemen were wounded by a hand grenade, were charged with threatening Wilders and other politicians, their lawyer said.

The latest video threat broadcast on the Internet -- in Dutch, with Arabic music in the background -- condemns Wilders for insulting Islam and offers the reward of paradise for his beheading.

Wilders' style and cause are reminiscent of Pim Fortuyn, a flamboyant political outsider who put immigration on the national agenda before the 2002 elections. Fortuyn was shot to death by an animal rights activist days before the vote, but major parties since have largely embraced his ideas.

Wilders said he is not opposed to mainstream Islam but is concerned by studies saying 10 percent of the Dutch Muslim population -- or about 100,000 people -- support radical Islamic views.

He cited a report by Dutch intelligence saying recruitment for jihad, or holy war, is taking place in as many as 20 mosques in the Netherlands, and said they should be closed and their imams, or preachers, arrested and deported.

"If we don't do anything ... we will lose the country that we have known for centuries. People don't want the Netherlands to be lost, and this is something that I get angry about and I am going to fight for, to keep the country Dutch," he said.


URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/a/2004/11/19/international1436EST0563.DTL


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©2004 Associated Press

Loki
Saturday, November 20th, 2004, 10:47 AM
"If we don't do anything ... we will lose the country that we have known for centuries. People don't want the Netherlands to be lost, and this is something that I get angry about and I am going to fight for, to keep the country Dutch," he said.

Good luck to Geert Wilders! :viking2:

Nordhammer
Saturday, November 20th, 2004, 07:12 PM
http://www.businessweek.com/1999/99_45/art45/bw45058.jpg http://www.zdf.de/ZDFde/img/11/0,1886,2178091,00.jpg


They almost look like identical twins. Guess who the guy is I posted? And if he would be allowed to post on TNP?

Other than similar pigmentation they have many physical differences.

Loki
Saturday, November 20th, 2004, 07:18 PM
Good luck to Geert Wilders! :viking2:
Death threats force controversial Dutch MP underground (http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=68283)

Loki
Saturday, November 20th, 2004, 07:19 PM
Other than similar pigmentation they have many physical differences.
To me they look like identical twins....

Nordhammer
Saturday, November 20th, 2004, 07:21 PM
This "experiment" of diversity is all a big mistake, as any sensible person can conclude. Not only is it cultural and racial genocide for all groups involved, particularly for the lighter Northern peoples of Europe and their descendants around the world, but it is inefficient and socially chaotic. There has never been a diverse society that existed in harmony, it's just not feasible. Especially in this case, it's no surprise that when you combine degenerate liberals with religious fundamentalists that you get violence and death.

Nordhammer
Saturday, November 20th, 2004, 07:36 PM
To me they look like identical twins....

I mean compared to Theo van Gogh.

http://www.forums.skadi.net/showpost.php?p=67053&postcount=35

Loki
Saturday, November 20th, 2004, 07:44 PM
I mean compared to Theo van Gogh.

http://www.forums.skadi.net/showpost.php?p=67053&postcount=35
Ah yes, I see what you mean.