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cosmocreator
Tuesday, November 2nd, 2004, 06:57 AM
...

friedrich braun
Tuesday, November 2nd, 2004, 03:19 PM
Indeed. When God made the German Aryan He broke the mold.

Dr. Brandt
Tuesday, November 2nd, 2004, 03:24 PM
Here is a better version of the picture:

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1875&stc=1

Evolved
Tuesday, November 2nd, 2004, 03:57 PM
The Pinnacle of Man
Why?

Triglav
Tuesday, November 2nd, 2004, 07:53 PM
Indeed. When God made the German Aryan He broke the mold.

The funny thing is that this is not how the average German looks like. His look is more common in Scandinavia and Russia.

friedrich braun
Tuesday, November 2nd, 2004, 07:57 PM
The funny thing is that this is not how the average German look like. His look is more common in Scandinavia and Russia.

Russia? :costumed- :speechles :rotfl: :rofl: :beer-smil


Genetically, Russians are the least European people in Europe.

Dr. Brandt
Tuesday, November 2nd, 2004, 08:11 PM
The funny thing is that this is not how the average German look like. His look is more common in Scandinavia and Russia.

Although it's not funny at all that you are absolutely IGNORANT on the subject. Like you would know how every single Russian and German looks like?

BTW: Your Atavar is outragous! Karenthia is no part of "Slovenia" but is and will stay German!

Loki
Tuesday, November 2nd, 2004, 08:13 PM
Why?
You're in desperate need of an education.

Loki
Tuesday, November 2nd, 2004, 08:14 PM
The funny thing is that this is not how the average German look like. His look is more common in Scandinavia and Russia.
You are very confused my friend.

Triglav
Tuesday, November 2nd, 2004, 09:37 PM
Russia? :costumed- :speechles :rotfl: :rofl: :beer-smil


Genetically, Russians are the least European people in Europe.

Proof?

They indeed have the least Western Mediterranean influence, if that's what you're referring to.

Triglav
Tuesday, November 2nd, 2004, 09:37 PM
You are very confused my friend.

Are you claiming that people who look like this are not more common in Scandinavia and Russia?

Triglav
Tuesday, November 2nd, 2004, 09:45 PM
Although it's not funny at all that you are absolutely IGNORANT on the subject.

Maybe you can teach me then. Instead of going on virtual power-trips, you might want to back up your claims for once?

But the isolated Corded component is more frequent in Russia and Scandinavia than Germany.


Like you would know how every single Russian and German looks like?

Not every single one. Have you? Do answer or please cease putting forward such claims.



BTW: Your Atavar is outragous! Karenthia is no part of "Slovenia" but is and will stay German!

The population has always been Slovene.

Loki
Tuesday, November 2nd, 2004, 10:22 PM
Gorostan, I don't think you belong here.

NormanBlood
Tuesday, November 2nd, 2004, 10:48 PM
Not to be a rubble rouser here, but why would he not "belong" here according to what he has stated in this thread? As far as I have seen he hasn't said anything offensive, and if people here disagree with what he has said why not just bring up the proof and finish it? You give a warning to Gorostan for his comments on Scandinavians and Russians in accordance to the Corded component, yet what about friedrich's comment:
Genetically, Russians are the least European people in Europe. which just seems to have been more for the sake of insult than truth?

Loki
Tuesday, November 2nd, 2004, 10:53 PM
Not to be a rubble rouser here, but why would he not "belong" here according to what he has stated in this thread? As far as I have seen he hasn't said anything offensive, and if people here disagree with what he has said why not just bring up the proof and finish it? You give a warning to Gorostan for his comments on Scandinavians and Russians in accordance to the Corded component, yet what about friedrich's comment: which just seems to have been more for the sake of insult than truth?How is friedrich's post an insult if it is the truth?

NormanBlood, if you don't like the way I run my forum, then let me know please. Don't try telling me what to do.

Triglav
Tuesday, November 2nd, 2004, 11:30 PM
Gorostan, I don't think you belong here.

I shall leave voluntarily.

Loki, I gave you a piece from Coon on Russia and asked you to supply a similar account of any region in Germany - which you have failed to produce. I guess a trip to Germany and some EE countries is long overdue, so you can see the racial situation with your own eyes. I really doubt the individuals here have seen a significant number of ethnic Russians. It is deplorable that people are unable to confront some simple facts and are so saddened by them and at the same time unable to refute them. After all, I am asked to leave because I merely pointed out what others have established before (15% of dolicho/mesocephaly in Germany vs. 25% in Russia).
Since you are unable to do so, your arguments will never be able to prevail in any debate you will have with your antagonists. I did my best to lay a scientific foundation for my preservationist efforts and dissuade people from clinging to false notions.

On the other hand, you allow dark non-Nordish Dinarids to attack blond Nordish UPs without citing any arguments at all and moreover you let them get away unscathed (the fact that they are Germanic and I am Slavic had nothing to do with it, I'm sure). You have so far not done the best job creating an environment for Nordish individuals where the concepts and foundations of racial preservation could be examined, so they could bear scientific scrutiny, but since I've known you for a while, I know that you shall make some more strides in the direction you chose. I actually didn't do more than ask you to refute what I said (my question was pretty clear). I was also sure that I pointed out very precisely that Russia is not more Nordid than Scandinavia (which you brought up in our private conversation). The opposite is true and both are (or appear to be) more Nordid than Germany. I don't know why you were so appaled by that and at the same time not provided any refutation.

I'm sure we'll resume talking once you calm down. We always have. So long, Loki. ;)

PS: I'm still waiting for my "TNP's leading geneticist" award. ;)

Loki
Tuesday, November 2nd, 2004, 11:39 PM
PS: I'm still waiting for my "TNP's leading geneticist" award. ;)
Not leading geneticist, but for your contributions to that other thread you have received recognition.

Triglav
Tuesday, November 2nd, 2004, 11:42 PM
Not leading geneticist, but for your contributions to that other thread you have received recognition.

That was a joke anyway. :biggrin: I don't care for awards. I was happy to contribute and refute that blatant propaganda.

Northern Paladin
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 12:26 AM
Proof?

They indeed have the least Western Mediterranean influence, if that's what you're referring to.

They also have the highest East Asian and Ugric influence. The type exhibited by Cosmo is far more common in North Central Europe.


The funny thing is that this is not how the average German looks like. His look is more common in Scandinavia and Russia.

You've got to be joking the average Russian isn't even close to this fellow.
If they leaders of Russia represent the people Putin,Yelsin,Lenin,Breznev, Russia is no where near the Pinnacle.

As for Scandanaivia it's the Nordic Heartland of Europe. I don't understand why you clump Scandainaivia with Russia. They're two very different places.

friedrich braun
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 12:34 AM
Of course, I didn't mean to insult anyone.

I'll dig up some studies on Russians to back up my claim when I have a minute.

Northern Paladin
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 12:35 AM
Gorostan, I don't think you belong here.

It's up to you but I don't think a little disagreement hurts. As it gives us an opportunity to strenghten our views.

Pomor
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 12:40 AM
You've got to be joking the average Russian isn't even close to this fellow.
If they leaders of Russia represent the people Putin,Yelsin,Lenin,Breznev, Russia is no where near the Pinnacle.

Nothing wrong with Eltsin and Putin, but Breznev or Lenin weren't Russians in the first place.
Russia is a big country and not inhabited by ethnic Russians only, the percentage of ethnic Russians is about the same as the percentage of whites in America, you wouldn't say that Collin Powell is a good representative of American nation, would you? The same with Russians.

Pomor
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 12:49 AM
Coon about Russians

The Great Russians of a special area lying partly in the Tambov, Penza, and Saratov Governments, who form a mesocephalic nucleus in the country half way between Moscow and the mouth of the Volga, have been subjected to a detailed study, which shows them to be essentially Nordic. A mean stature of 169 cm., a cephalic index just under 79, and a head length of 192 mm., indicate an initial resemblance to Nordics or brunet Mediterraneans. The auricular height mean of about 130 mm. is greater than that of Scandinavian Nordics, however, as are the bizygomatic of 140 mm. and the bigonial of 109 mm., while the minimum frontal of 105 mm. is more nearly Nordic than the other lateral dimensions. The face height, 125 mm., yields a facial index on the borderline of mesoprosopy and leptoprosopy; the nasal index, about 65, is derived from a mean nose length of 55 mm. and a breadth of nearly 36 mm.
Half of these Great Russians have wavy hair, the other half straight; the head hair is dark brown (Fischer #4-5) in 30 per cent of the series studied, and almost never black; it is medium brown (Fischer #6-10) in about 50 per cent, and light brown in most of the rest.* Rufosity is rare, but at the same time most of the blondism falls on the golden side. About 8 per cent have brown eyes, nearly 30 per cent light, and the rest mixed. Thus these tall, mesocephalic Great Russians are brown to dark brown-haired, and essentially mixed to light eyed.* Their facial features conform in most cases to a Nordic standard; the nasal profile is straight or wavy in over 65 per cent of the group, convex in 25 per cent, and concave in the 10 per cent that is left.
Individually as well as collectively, most of these men look Nordic in either a complete or a partial sense; others, in the minority, with concave, up-tilted noses and wide faces, approximate the forest type of incipiently mongoloid trend. The facial dimensions, with their accent on the heaviness of the mandible, diverge from a western European Nordic standard, but conform to that of the eastern Nordic type found skeletally among Scythians and in the Minussinsk kurgans; they also conform to a brunet Mediterranean type which we shall see in other regions bordering the Black Sea. The high vault, and the prevalence of brown hair in combination with light eyes, suggests a major survival of the Corded element so lacking elsewhere in most of eastern Europe; since the Slavs elsewhere have to a large extent lost this element, it seems likely that the people in question are the descendants of earlier Iranian inhabitants as much as of Slavic immigrants.

What Coon said about that special region is true for the WHOLE central and Western Russia, there is nothing special about this special region.
North Russians on the other hand show more UP admixture.

Pomor
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 12:53 AM
Russians and Karelians from Northern Russia (Russians being an overwhelming majority)

Pomor
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 12:58 AM
Russians from central-northwestern part (Novgorod area)

Pomor
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 01:02 AM
More from the same region

Pomor
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 01:04 AM
German school class versus Russian one (first one German, second - Russian). Russians are from Moscow.

Northern Paladin
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 01:07 AM
Nothing wrong with Eltsin and Putin, but Breznev or Lenin weren't Russians in the first place.
Russia is a big country and not inhabited by ethnic Russians only, the percentage of ethnic Russians is about the same as the percentage of whites in America, you wouldn't say that Collin Powell is a good representative of American nation, would you? The same with Russians.

You have a point there, of course not all Russians are Ethnic Russians. But concerning Yeltsin his eyes are quite slanted. His nose is snubbed. Not exactly Aryan traits. As for Putin nothing wrong with him. But he doesn't exactly resemble the fellow Comso posted. As the Pinnacle of Man.

Pomor
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 01:09 AM
You have a point there, of course not all Russians are Ethnic Russians. But concerning Yeltsin his eyes are quite slanted. His nose is snubbed. Not exactly Aryan traits. As for Putin nothing wrong with him. But he doesn't exactly resemble the fellow Comso posted. As the Pinnacle of Man.

Yeltsin's eyes are slanted because he is a chronical alcoholic, his nose is snubbed because it was twice broken. Anyway that's not the point, even an ethnic Russian can look Ladogan or have some Uralic admixture, but for every Russian looking like that I will find you a German who looks like Himmler, who isn't a pinnacle of creation either.

Northern Paladin
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 01:15 AM
Yeltsin's eyes are slanted because he is a chronical alcoholic, his nose is snubbed because it was twice broken. Anyway that's not the point, even an ethnic Russian can look Ladogan or have some Uralic admixture, but for every Russian looking like that I will find you a German who looks like Himmler, who isn't a pinnacle of creation either.

Of course not every Russian looks like Yeltsin nor does every German look like Himmler. But on average Germans come closer to the SS Officer posted by Cosmo.

Triglav
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 01:18 AM
. But he doesn't exactly resemble the fellow Comso posted. As the Pinnacle of Man.

But the thing is that few Germans look like that fellow.

Pomor
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 01:21 AM
Of course not every Russian looks like Yeltsin nor does every German look like Himmler. But on average Germans come closer to the SS Officer posted by Cosmo.

I don't see anything special in the SS officer posted by Cosmo, he looks like an average Russian ;) Only with gayish hairstyle.

Alexander Godunov is surely closer to this ideal :)

http://www.timemachinetoys.com/toypics/diehardgod.JPG

Northern Paladin
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 01:23 AM
But the thing is that few Germans look like that fellow.

Considering this fellow is German. It makes sense his fellow Germans would resemble more than Russians. On the other hand I do acknowledge there are some very Nordic Russians. But these usually are concentrated in certain areas of Russia and not wide spread through out the population.

Pomor
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 01:27 AM
Considering this fellow is German. It makes sense his fellow Germans would resemble more than Russians. On the other hand I do acknowledge there are some very Nordic Russians. But these usually are concentrated in certain areas of Russia and not wide spread through out the population.

That's not true, Russians are very homogenous. Although central Russians are more Nordic/gracialized on average.

Triglav
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 01:31 AM
They also have the highest East Asian and Ugric influence.

Hungary has more (2,5%+ off the top of my head). The East Asian component in Russians totals 1-2%. That is a bit more than in Scandinavia.


The type exhibited by Cosmo is far more common in North Central Europe.

Maybe the look (after all, this German will resemble other Germans more than Russians), but not the type.

Some Corded Nordid Russians I can think of:

Alexander Godunov:

http://www.moviegoods.com/Assets/product_images/1020/169189.1020.A.jpg

Alexei Gordeev:

http://english.pravda.ru/images/newsline/Agro_Gordeev.jpg

Elena Dementieva:

http://www.jelena-dokic.com/jelena/articles/200304/05.jpg



As for Scandanaivia it's the Nordic Heartland of Europe.

I agree and I've already pointed that out.


I don't understand why you clump Scandainaivia with Russia. They're two very different places.

Other than the fact that both are more Nordid (and blond) than Germany, there is no reason to lump them together.

Triglav
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 01:35 AM
Considering this fellow is German. It makes sense his fellow Germans would resemble more than Russians.

Funny, that's just what I've been writing when you posted that. It's a fact that looks differ from country to country and ethnicity to ethnicity. But it's the type the I was talking about.

Guest
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 01:44 AM
This is for sure one of the most interesting threads that are going on at the moment. I don't agree equally with all of you, but I doubt I've got much more to contribute with than just expressing my hope that none of the debattants will leave TNP, and encouraging you all to continue. ;)

For me it is particular debates like this that really makes it interesting to be here. :)

Northern Paladin
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 01:46 AM
I am not denying there are some very Nordid Russians. I personally have nothing against Russians. I consider Russian women and Slavic women in general to be very attractive. Though not as attractive as Germanic women but way better looking than meds! :biggrin:

Triglav
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 01:50 AM
I am not denying there are some very Nordid Russians. I personally have nothing against Russians. I consider Russian women and Slavic women in general to be very attractive. Though not as attractive as Germanic women but way better looking than meds! :biggrin:

Neither am I denying the existence of German Nordids. It's about the proportion, however. And the first gentleman posted was not an averagely Nordid German.

Northern Paladin
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 01:53 AM
Neither am I denying the existence of German Nordids. It's about the proportion, however.

It's kind of hard to deny the existance of German Nordids when one is looking at the ranks of the SS!

By proportion I would say Germany. But unless someone can find some hard numbers this debate will go on indefinetly.

Pomor
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 01:59 AM
Well according to Coon the MAJORITY of central Russians are Nordic, so

Individually as well as collectively, most of these men look Nordic in either a complete or a partial sense

Read the whole quote I posted earlier.

Triglav
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 02:05 AM
It's kind of hard to deny the existance of German Nordids when one is looking at the ranks of the SS!


Well, I actually posted the same quote Pomor did, but it was in a private conversation with Loki.

Russians are also longer-headed, but I don't have the figures handy.

According to the Polish anthropologist Jan Czekanowski, the Nordic component in Great Russians amounts to 55.8% and in Bielorussians to 67.2%.


By proportion I would say Germany. But unless someone can find some hard numbers this debate will go on indefinetly.

How many Germans and how many Russians have you met in your life?

cosmocreator
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 02:05 AM
Enough about this Russian vs German stuff. I'm going to move all that racial type to Canada. :biggrin:

Northern Paladin
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 02:27 AM
Well, I actually posted the same quote Pomor did, but it was in a private conversation with Loki.

Russians are also longer-headed, but I don't have the figures handy.

According to the Polish anthropologist Jan Czekanowski, the Nordic component in Great Russians amounts to 55.8% and in Bielorussians to 67.2%.



How many Germans and how many Russians have you met in your life?

I have had quite a few of friends both Russians/Slavs and Germans.

bocian
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 02:36 AM
I have had quite a few of friends both Russians/Slavs and Germans.

I don't think this is sufficient. Unless you have spent a considerable time in each of these countries, I don't really think your opinion counts. No offense, I just feel that someone who knows a handful of people can't realistically be expected to fully know the physical traits of the inhabitants of these nations.

friedrich braun
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 02:48 AM
German school class versus Russian one (first one German, second - Russian). Russians are from Moscow.

Posting a photo of a "German" school class is meaningless, since presently Germany is a multiethnic state (for e.g., Frankfurt is about 30 % foreign). Unless you can provide us with the the students' pedigrees, that is.

(Could it be that PS has joined us? :) He used to have an inexhaustible amount of pics with Russian kids, etc. and would flood forums with them in the same maniacal fashion. :biggrin: )

bocian
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 02:55 AM
Posting a photo of a "German" school class is meaningless, since present Germany is a multiethnic state. Unless you can provide us the the students' pedigrees, that is.

I think the whole argument is rather useless. Firstly the Nordic types in Russia and Germany differ, naturally a German who imagines the German Nordic as the pinnacle of man and aesthetically most attractive will find Russians less to his/her liking, and therefore less Nordic, the same goes for Russians. The other thing is, how many of you have actually been in both Russia and Germany for any considerable amount of time? If we are going only by a selected handful of immigrants to any specifc country alone, then we are fooling ourselves.

friedrich braun
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 03:02 AM
Again, going to Germany today is pointless because it's a foreigner-infested shithole. You'd have to ask everyone for their genealogy. On a recent visit to Munich I met four Slovaks -- they're White but not German, but a casual tourist could possibly mistake them for Germans, I suppose.

bocian
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 03:07 AM
Again, going to Germany today is pointless because it's a foreigner-infested shithole. You'd have to ask everyone for their genealogy. On a recent visit to Munich I met four Slovaks -- they're White but not German, but a casual tourist could possibly mistake them for Germans, I suppose.

Yeah, you have a point. This is why someone would have to spend a considerable amount of time to actually be able to formulate a genuinely researched unbiased opinion. A casual tourist would surely get the wrong impression...of course this applies to Russia as well.

Pomor
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 03:34 AM
Posting a photo of a "German" school class is meaningless, since presently Germany is a multiethnic state (for e.g., Frankfurt is about 30 % foreign). Unless you can provide us with the the students' pedigrees, that is.

(Could it be that PS has joined us? :) He used to have an inexhaustible amount of pics with Russian kids, etc. and would flood forums with them in the same maniacal fashion. :biggrin: )

No, I am not Prodigal. I have no other choice when someone starts reffering to Brezhnev or Putin as examples of Russians. And from my experience there is no better way to prove anything than to post actual photos - neither most recent genetical studies nor quotes from famous anthropologists are sufficient for some people, they will keep saying same old BS again and again.

As for the German class - they are all Germans, as confirmed by a German who posted the pic.

Northern Paladin
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 04:09 AM
Posting a photo of a "German" school class is meaningless, since presently Germany is a multiethnic state (for e.g., Frankfurt is about 30 % foreign). Unless you can provide us with the the students' pedigrees, that is.

(Could it be that PS has joined us? :) He used to have an inexhaustible amount of pics with Russian kids, etc. and would flood forums with them in the same maniacal fashion. :biggrin: )

Could it be Prodigal Son? Is the Sky Blue? Is the Pope Catholic? :biggrin:

bocian
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 04:11 AM
Could it be Prodigal Son? Is the Sky Blue? Is the Pope Catholic? :biggrin:

I assure you, he is not Prodigal.

Northern Paladin
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 04:14 AM
I assure you, he is not Prodigal.


I was just joking. How do you know anyhow?

bocian
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 04:17 AM
I was just joking. How do you know anyhow?

Because I know.

Triglav
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 11:50 AM
I was just joking. How do you know anyhow?

It's not Prodigal Son. I've known both Pomor and PS for quite a while now, I've seen their IPs, and I can assure you they're not one and the same person. Ask Loki if you don't believe me.

Triglav
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 11:59 AM
I think the whole argument is rather useless. Firstly the Nordic types in Russia and Germany differ, naturally a German who imagines the German Nordic as the pinnacle of man and aesthetically most attractive will find Russians less to his/her liking, and therefore less Nordic, the same goes for Russians.

That's a crucial point.

People like what they're familiar with. A Russian will be used to seeing fellow Russians and deem their racial types normal and other types strange and "mixed", while a German will consider other nations strange-looking and stick to his own kind.

Isn't that what amounts to racial preservation and what the latter is all about?

Triglav
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 12:02 PM
-dp

Evolved
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 12:34 PM
Could it be Prodigal Son? Is the Sky Blue? Is the Pope Catholic? :biggrin:

:icon_surp There is more than one "Russian" Nordicist on the net. :icon12:

Loki
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 12:46 PM
I think the whole argument is rather useless. Firstly the Nordic types in Russia and Germany differ, naturally a German who imagines the German Nordic as the pinnacle of man and aesthetically most attractive will find Russians less to his/her liking, and therefore less Nordic, the same goes for Russians. The other thing is, how many of you have actually been in both Russia and Germany for any considerable amount of time? If we are going only by a selected handful of immigrants to any specifc country alone, then we are fooling ourselves.
The picture posted at the beginning showed a Nordic man (regardless of his ethnicity) as being the pinnacle of man. I agree with that, and so do most people around here. This does not have to be a fight over ethnicities.

There is little doubt that the Nordic Man is the ultimate human being, and the most distinct from primitive primates. The most typical man, and also the most successful man in the world.

Loki
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 12:47 PM
It's not Prodigal Son. I've known both Pomor and PS for quite a while now, I've seen their IPs, and I can assure you they're not one and the same person. Ask Loki if you don't believe me.
Prodigal Son is registered on TNP as Sventovit. He hasn't been online for several weeks now.

Triglav
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 12:55 PM
This does not have to be a fight over ethnicities.


You are right. I'm sorry it had to end in a "p*ssing contest" between nations. I didn't know my first comment was going to spark such a thread.

Glenlivet
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 03:46 PM
The pictures of the German school children must be from some region in southern Germany. I think that it is more relevant to compare Thuringia, Mecklenburg and Schleswig-Holstein with the fairest regions of Russia. It is a matter of morphology though, Russians can of course be fairer, more so than some Swedes too, however, NW Germans tend to look more like SW Scandinavians than NW Russians do to either populations. The Aistin (which is probably some variation of what you guys call Corded)
looking people you posted from Russia come close to the Nordid found in parts of eastern Germany, eastern Sweden, northern Poland and the Baltic countries.

I must accept that Central Russia is slightly longer-headed (at least was in the 1940's) than Northern-Central Germany. On a map that I have from Lundman (Jordens Människoraser och Folkstammar, 1943) The CI of Central Russia is 80-82 (thus a bit higher than the 78-80 of Southern Sweden, southern Norway, most of Denmark, and eastern parts of Scotland and England), while Northern-Central Germany is 82-84. On this map Inner Scandinavia is 76-78 though. There is also a region on this map, half the size of Germany, a region that from what I can tell is north of the Black Sea and that appear to cover southern parts of Muscovy (west of Nizhni Novgorod) where CI is 78-80.

What makes populations different is not only an index of the head though, as there are so many other anthropological traits that make us distinguish populations.

I could mistake the individual below as being from Sweden, although the eyeshape might be slightly different. Do you have a profile of him?

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1886

I think that the two men in the middle of the picture below that you posted look East-Baltid (similar to the eastern Finnish Savolax type)

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1882

I met a Latvian man looking like the second one from left.

These ones do not look Nordid at all (is it because of the region they come from, not ethnic Russians?):

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1877

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1884
The guy on the right look like many Finns I have seen. The one on the left appear Pontid.

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1893

Very depigmented (eyes in both and hair of the girl on left) but not Nordid morphology.

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1892

East-Baltid looking.

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1888

The girl appear East-Baltid, and the guy have a strongly convex aquiline nose and a rather weak jaw that look Dinaroid.

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1883

What do you think that he would be classified as in Russian anthropology?


German school class versus Russian one (first one German, second - Russian). Russians are from Moscow.

friedrich braun
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 04:03 PM
As for the German class - they are all Germans, as confirmed by a German who posted the pic.

Who? Where?

Where are the kids from?

At any rate, if true, I doubt he knew all of their respective genealogies.

It's like taking a snap shot of a French class full of Arabs and concluding that they represent the French.

Glenlivet
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 04:13 PM
There are some, especially in the second class, that are obviously foreign and even very dark with non-Europid traits. You should ask the German who posted those classes. He post on another big board.




It's like taking a snap shot of a French class full of Arabs and concluding that they represent the French.

friedrich braun
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 09:50 PM
Mitochondrial DNA variability in Russians and Ukrainians: Implication to the origin of the Eastern Slavs

B. A. MALYARCHUK et al.

"Taking into account the data of Orekhov et al.
(1999), one should conclude that the Mongoloid
admixture in Russians appears to be insignifcant
(less than 3.0%) and represented by haplogroups
C and Z sequences. The presence of the Saamispecific
haplogroup Z, as well as subgroup U5b1
sequences in the mitochondrial gene pool of
Russians, we consider as a consequence of local
Finno±Ugric tribes assimilation by Slavs during
their movement to the North of eastern Europe.
The presence of Asian-specific components, such
as haplogroup C sequences, in the mitochondrial
gene pool of Russians may be explained by their
complicated ethnic history, including long-lasting
interactions with Asians. However, in the
study of mtDNA sequences only the female
lineages are taken into account, whereas
Mongoloid morphological traits in the Russians,
revealed by anthropologists (Alekseeva, 1973),
might have been derived from male migrants."

...

G. F. Debets:

In all probability, the distinctions of Russians from Caucasians should not be explained by the fact that the eyelid structure of Northern Europeans is different from that of Southern Europeans, but by the fact that the Russians absorbed elements which are characterized by some Mongoloid traits.

According to Bunak, the main racial elements in Russians are Baltic, Pontic and Uralic. Only the Pontic type, which is frequent in southern Russia is long-headed, but it also carries a brunet tendency and a tendency to low-headedness, i.e. is neither Corded nor Nordic.

Mitochondrial DNA Variations in Russian and Belorussian Populations

Olga Belyaeva et al.

Abstract

The sequence of the first hypervariable segment (HVS-I) of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) was determined in 251 individuals from three eastern Slavonic populations, two Russian and one Belorussian. Within HVS-I, 78 polymorphic positions were revealed. Within-population diversity of HVS-I varies slightly among three samples; its estimates do not differ strongly from those for European populations. Haplotype diversity for three populations calculated in this study is 0.949; mean pairwise differences estimate is 3.59. To assign mtDNA sequences to major phylogenetic clusters, haplogroup-specific restriction polymorphisms were selectively typed in most samples. The haplogroup distribution in the total Eastern Slavonic sample is similar to that reported for the European sample. However, the separate consideration of three Slavonic samples reveals the complicated structure of the mitochondrial gene pool in the Eastern European area. Data of this study support the proposed model of the origin of modern Eastern Slavs, which implies the admixture of ancient Slavonic tribes with pre-Slavonic populations of Eastern Europe. These data should contribute to general studies of mitochondrial DNA variations in Europe.

...

The presence of the U5b1 subcluster in the northern Russian population should also be noted. U5b1 sequences in Russians were also reported by Malyarchuk et al. (2002). This subcluster was described as specific for the Saami population (Lahermo et al. 1996). Its presence in the Russian (Oshevensk) sample seems to reflect an admixture of a Finno-Ugric component, but it is unclear how old this admixture could be. All individuals included in our sample were characterized as ethnically Russian, and inhabited the area where the sample was collected for at least three maternal generations. Currently, due to geographical and sociological peculiarities, the Russian population of the Oshevensk settlement can be considered an isolate. The southern part of the Arkhangelsk region, where the Oshevensk settlement is situated, does not have immediate contact with Saami populations. So, a recent admixture seems to be less probable than an earlier admixture during the peopling of northern areas by Slavonic groups.

...

In comparison to frequencies of cluster M in Belorussians and the northern Russian population, the frequency of cluster M in Russians (Bashkiria) is notably but not dramatically increased (five sequences). Although we collected samples from individuals who are ethnically Russian for at least three generations, we cannot exclude the possibility of some admixture with neighboring Asian populations characterized by high frequencies of the cluster M.

...

Conclusions. As follows from the above discussion, three eastern Slav samples considered in total demonstrate mtDNA variations that are very close to variations found in the European population as a whole. MtDNA haplotypes are similar to those found in Western and Central European populations. Nevertheless, the comparison of Slavonic samples of different ethnic and geographic origins reveals the complicated structure of the mitochondrial gene pool in this area. This structure could reflect traces of female admixture between Slavonic and pre-Slavonic groups—in particular, Finno-Ugric tribes—during a colonization of northern Eastern Europe by Slavs. In this sense our data are in agreement with those from previous studies of Slavonic mtDNA (Malyarchuk and Derenko 2001) and a hybridization theory of the origin of Eastern Slavs (Alekseeva 1973), which imply their central European origin and subsequent admixture and assimilation of pre-Slavonic populations of Eastern Europe. This study also revealed no or low Mongoloid admixture in the mitochondrial gene pool of Eastern Slavs. However, the analysis of maternally inherited mtDNA could not effectively reveal the influence of Mongoloid migrations, since they included mostly male individuals. Haplogroup distribution in Belorussians and northern Russians has more similarity to that in northern European populations than in eastern Russian populations. The Russian (Bashkiria) population differs from the two other samples in the representation of several clusters, namely, HV, V, K, T. Besides the local admixture and assimilation of pre-Slavonic groups, this difference could support an existing opinion that Russian migrants of different geographic origin were involved in the processes of colonizing the northern and eastern parts of the Russian Plain. More detailed studies of Eastern European mtDNA variations, complemented by analysis of Y-chromosome loci, will allow revelation of some tendencies, which could reflect the main aspects of European gene pool formation.

friedrich braun
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 09:54 PM
Chingiz khan is to blame for Russian drunks
01/31/2004 13:08
Scientists claim that almost half of the Russian population inherited Mongol genes

In search of a revolutionary drug to cure alcoholism and hang-over, scientists were able to establish direct genetic correlation between traditional weakness of the Russians for the alcoholic beverages and the invasion of the Tatar hordes of Chingiz khan on the Russian territory, writes one of the journalists of The Times Jeremy Page.

Scientists claim that almost half of the Russian population inherited Mongol genes consequently causing more alcohol to be absorbed by blood. Russians also require more time to fully digest alcohol than Europeans for instance. This means that Russians drink more heavily, suffer from severe hang-over and are overall more susceptible to become alcohol dependent, especially taking into account Russian love for vodka, tough climate and social-economic chaos in the country since the collapse of the USSR.

"The difference is tremendous-it can be noticed from one's reactions, shaking hands, and so on," stated Vladimir Nuzhny from the National Narcological Research Center of the Ministry of Health. "On average, 50% of people in Moscow possess such Mongol gene. We assume that this particular gene is to blame," said Nuzhny.

In the course of the research, scientists paid 12 students-volunteers to consume 350 grams of vodka in an hour. Their behavior was closely monitored.

"Based on the Western standards, 350 grams of vodka is a lot. In Russia however this is a norm," informed doctor Nuzhny The Times. "At first, the students thought everything was fine: they were getting paid for drinking! Afterwards, however, they realized they had been mistaken."

While being intoxicated, each one of the students had to complete certain tests. They included answering questions, driving in video games. They were also asked to blow in special tubes in order to measure their level of alcohol. Scientists even paid close attention at how fast the students were standing up from their seats.

After some rest, the students were given breakfast and had to undergo another set of tests in order to measure their hang-over. It turned out that those students with Mongol genes absorbed 50% more alcohol and digested it significantly slower than the rest of the students.

"They tend to experience a different sensation while being intoxicated. They are more susceptible to aggressions or depressions," remarked Nuzhny. "They do not necessarily resemble Mongol facial features. However, they do have this Mongol gene."

Mongols traveled through Asia and Russia and afterwards invaded Europe in XII century. They ruled Russia for nearly 300 years. Interracial marriages were quite common between Mongols and people of other nations.

Scientists already knew that people of Mongol descent including Chinese, Koreans and Japanese, possessed a ferment responsible for alcohol digestion which was not is not as strong as in Europeans.

Doctor Nuzhny claims that he conducts the first research of alcohol effects specifically on Russians with Mongol genes. According to him, such phenomenon can be explained by evolution. Mongolian nomads, who knew alcohol only in the form of fermented horse milk, acquired an additional ferment in the course of evolution. Their genetic make up differed from Europeans, who used to consume rather strong alcoholic beverages made of grapes and wheat.

The research indicates that Russians consume 15 liters of pure alcohol per person annually. This is one of the highest rates of alcohol consumption in the world. According to the research, every seventh Russian suffers from alcoholism. Alcohol is often regarded as being responsible for a relatively short lifespan (59).


http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/360/11931_alcoholism.html

Loki
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 09:56 PM
Chingiz khan is to blame for Russian drunks

Hahaha Gorostan loves this article! :biggrin:

:icon_razz

friedrich braun
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 10:03 PM
Scientists claim that almost half of the Russian population inherited Mongol genes

:food-smil

Dr. Brandt
Wednesday, November 3rd, 2004, 11:47 PM
Rofl!

Fritz, you should use larger fonts! Slant eyed mongols might have difficulty reading it. :D

bocian
Thursday, November 4th, 2004, 02:01 AM
Rofl!

Fritz, you should use larger fonts! Slant eyed mongols might have difficulty reading it. :D

I thought there weren't any Mongols on TNP.

cosmocreator
Thursday, November 4th, 2004, 02:52 AM
The picture posted at the beginning showed a Nordic man (regardless of his ethnicity) as being the pinnacle of man. I agree with that, and so do most people around here. This does not have to be a fight over ethnicities.

There is little doubt that the Nordic Man is the ultimate human being, and the most distinct from primitive primates. The most typical man, and also the most successful man in the world.

Exactly.


You are right. I'm sorry it had to end in a "p*ssing contest" between nations. I didn't know my first comment was going to spark such a thread.

Nor did I know this thread was going to get such a response. It was just meant as an attachment for a signature. :icon_smil

Whether there are more of that racial type in Russia, Scandinavia or Germany is really not the issue. There are too few of them, period. We need more of them from Iceland to Russia + Canada and the US.

friedrich braun
Thursday, November 4th, 2004, 03:06 AM
There are too few of them, period. We need more of them

I couldn't agree more!!! :beer-smil

Pomor
Thursday, November 4th, 2004, 06:37 AM
I deleted all of the last replies I posted in the thread, as I changed my mind and do not want to participate in the pissing contests.

Loki
Thursday, November 4th, 2004, 06:52 AM
I deleted all of the last replies I posted in the thread, as I changed my mind and do not want to participate in the pissing contests.
pomor, don't take these posts seriously. ;) We're just having some fun at your expense. I like Russians, you know. :biggrin: If you were racially unwanted on TNP, you'd be banned already. But you aren't. You yourself are strongly Nordish, I know that.

Johnny Reb
Saturday, November 6th, 2004, 12:54 AM
How many people on this forum even remotely resemble that man?

Johnny Reb
Saturday, November 6th, 2004, 01:12 AM
I did a google search for SS, and came up with these galleries.

http://home.online.no/~vestil/norway/ss%20bilder%20norge/

http://home.online.no/~vestil/norway/odderoya/index.htm

Does anybody have any more? The Germans in these pictures didn't strike me as looking particularly nordic.

cosmocreator
Saturday, November 6th, 2004, 07:38 AM
http://home.online.no/~vestil/norway/ss%20bilder%20norge/


I don't know very much about NS insignia but all the guys in those photos are wearing death heads on the right collar. The guy in my sig has an SS on the right collar.

Loki
Saturday, November 6th, 2004, 09:30 AM
The Germans in these pictures didn't strike me as looking particularly nordic.
Only a percentage of Germans are Nordic proper; a much smaller percentage than what is found in Scandinavia.

Johnny Reb
Saturday, November 6th, 2004, 09:53 AM
Only a percentage of Germans are Nordic proper; a much smaller percentage than what is found in Scandinavia.

But wasn't the SS supposed to be nordic only? I thought they required a pedigree. :scratch:

Loki
Saturday, November 6th, 2004, 09:59 AM
But wasn't the SS supposed to be nordic only? I thought they required a pedigree. :scratch:
I have no idea... maybe the Germans would know. Nordgau?

Glenlivet
Saturday, November 6th, 2004, 02:36 PM
I believe that they are comparable to many Brits, perhaps less long-headed, but in any case particularly to the southern English. They are Central Europeans and look as such. It is hardly surprising. Most of them look "Peripheral Nordish".

Northwestern Germans are closer to Southwest Scandinavians.

I have pictures of German soldiers who look distinctly Nordid.




Does anybody have any more? The Germans in these pictures didn't strike me as looking particularly nordic.

Johnny Reb
Saturday, November 6th, 2004, 06:56 PM
I believe that they are comparable to many Brits, perhaps less long-headed, but in any case particularly to the southern English. They are Central Europeans and look as such. It is hardly surprising. Most of them look "Peripheral Nordish".

Northwestern Germans are closer to Southwest Scandinavians.

I have pictures of German soldiers who look distinctly Nordid.

They do look Central European in the pictures I provided, though there's no denying a nordic element in other Germans. That picture you posted could be a couple of Englishmen.

cosmocreator
Saturday, November 6th, 2004, 08:28 PM
You can see the SS on the right collar of one these. Assume the other has it too.

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1914

Evolved
Saturday, November 6th, 2004, 09:15 PM
SS Nordic only? Impossible, it was a huge organization.

What would Himmler do anyway, fire himself? :D How would a person in the 1930s-1940s "show" a complete racially Nordic pedigree when photography was invented in 1838?

Johnny Reb
Saturday, November 6th, 2004, 11:46 PM
You can see the SS on the right collar of one these. Assume the other has it too.

I meant that they could pass for Englishman without the uniforms.


SS Nordic only? Impossible, it was a huge organization.

Hrm, maybe it was German only then. I recall reading somewhere that you needed to show your family tree dating back 300 years or something. I'm pretty sure they emphasized nordicness in one of these organizations. Could a ww2 buff please fill us in?


What would Himmler do anyway, fire himself? :D

Actually, it's a little known fact that Himmler was fired in the late 30's, and his job was outsourced to Asia. :tongue:

http://www.irish-guards.co.uk/images/himmleruniform.jpg

Glenlivet
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 01:33 AM
But they are German. What are you trying to say about Germans?



That picture you posted could be a couple of Englishmen.

Pomor
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 04:32 AM
I have pictures of German soldiers who look distinctly Nordid.

Following your own standarts of classification the one on the left looks Dinaric, the one the right Noric. As for the Germans in the pics Johnny has provided - not a single pure Nordid face, they all look central European, I could mistake them for Ukranians, if not the uniform.

Pomor
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 04:34 AM
Only a percentage of Germans are Nordic proper; a much smaller percentage than what is found in Scandinavia.

I agree, that actually was Triglav's point originally.

Pomor
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 04:49 AM
Germans:

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1929&stc=1


Russians:

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1928&stc=1

Judge for yourself

Loki
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 09:51 AM
Germans:




Russians:



Judge for yourself
It is insufficient to compare two nationalities by judging one portrait each as being representative.

Johnny Reb
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 10:56 AM
But they are German. What are you trying to say about Germans?

Nothing bad. The guys in the picture you posted are nordic in my eyes, and when I saw them, the first thing that popped into my mind is that they looked English.


They all look central European, I could mistake them for Ukranians, if not the uniform.

Yes, they do look something like that. The fellow on the bottom of this picture looks like the guy in the famous "Untermensch" poster.

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1929&stc=1

Dr. Brandt
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 12:46 PM
Yes, they do look something like that. The fellow on the bottom of this picture looks like the guy in the famous "Untermensch" poster.



If anyone wants to see "Untermenschen" all they have to do is visit any yankee school.
You watch your mouth yankee boy! How dare you talk about our soldiers and ancestors like that! Who the hell do you think you are! :mad:

Loki
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 12:51 PM
If anyone wants to see "Untermenschen" all they have to do is visit any yankee school.
You watch your mouth yankee boy! How dare you talk about our soldiers and ancestors like that! Who the hell do you think you are! :mad:
Johnny Reb is Slavic, and has a distinct dislike of Germans, I have noticed....

Dr. Brandt
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 03:05 PM
Why don't we take a closer look at that comparison photograph which alledgedly proves that these "Russians" look more "nordic" than those "ukranian" Germans.
I recommend that everyone downloads the picture and looks at it with a magnifying glass. But be sure to hold a puke-bag at hand, because what you are going to see looks rather uneuropean. I have seen better looking inmates of our concentration camps than these "soldiers". Some of them show armenoid/jewish traits, others look like crimminal retards (which they probably are!), others are obviously asiatic, others have a much darker tan. They could all audition for leading roles in "The adams family" or "The Munsters". It doesn't surprise me the slightest that such prime examples of bolshevik "Russia" would later go on a raping and looting spree through civilized Europe, destroying churches, slaughtering children and sodomizing the cattle of our peasants.
Thank you Mr. Pomor for providing this picture. Unfortunately for you, your lil sceeme backfired.
Compared to any one of these fine "specimens" of "russian nordics" :rofl: Himmler looks like a greek God in comparison. :laugh:

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1930&stc=1

http://physics.csusb.edu/~amp/summer97/f/munsters.jpg :rofl:

Dr. Brandt
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 05:18 PM
Johnny Reb is Slavic, and has a distinct dislike of Germans, I have noticed....

Isn't "Reb" the yiddish short version of "rebbe" (Rabbi)? That would explain a lot! :laugh:

cosmocreator
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 06:50 PM
Enough of this German/Russian stuff. The issue is about race not ethnicity.

Evolved
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 08:00 PM
These "my country is more Nordic than your country" pissing contests are a waste of space. Everyone knows there are Nordic Germans and non-Nordic Germans, Nordic Rus and non-Nordic Rus. Germans are Nordic in a Fälish/Hallstatt/Borreby sense and Rus are Nordic in a Corded/East Balic sense.

When I think of a German Nordic type I picture Fälish traits. Going by posters and artworks it was this Nordic type who was more idealized in Germany in the time period we're discussing rather than the Hallstatt:

http://www.chgs.umn.edu/Histories__Narratives__Documen/Visualizing_Otherness_Set_1/FOX4.jpg

For ethnic Russian Nordics, I associate East Baltic, and/or Corded traits.

http://www.model.ru/cgi-bin/sizepic.pl/3397/2.jpg

So it is like comparing apples and oranges. Of course they look different.

No way does that picture of only 7 sailors (http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1929&stc=1) represent the whole ethnic German population, same for the group photo of Russians (http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1928&stc=1). None of them look "Armenoid", "Asian" or particularly "swarthy".

Johnny Reb
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 08:10 PM
Johnny Reb is Slavic, and has a distinct dislike of Germans, I have noticed....

I most certainly do not have a distinct dislike of Germans. I would like you to rescind that statement, Loki. I have a distinct dislike of ethnic chauvinists. German National Socialism, for all the emphasis it supposedly put on race, did more to harm relations between Nordish countries than anything else. Any true Nordicist would realize this.

Dr. Brandt. This is the Northern European forum, not the German portal and certainly not the Dinaric portal. I'll speak as I see fit, and trust that Loki accepts pro-Nordic dissenting opinion. That man in the photo appears to be an Alpine, and the first thing I thought of when I looked at him was that he looks like the chap on the "Untermensch" poster. Don't feel too bad though, he could have Slavic blood in him.

Evolved
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 08:16 PM
You can see the SS on the right collar of one these. Assume the other has it too.

Panzer fellows. In really bad Hollywood movies they have Allgemeine SS wearing Panzer uniforms. :scratch: SS Panzer divisions wore black uniforms mainly to hide grease stains one gets from working with tanks.

I'm no "official" expert though I'm known (believe it or not :biggrin:) to collect Third Reich war relics and have a lot of books on the subject back home.

Well, here is what I know about the SS in general, I'm probably forgetting a few things:

The Allgemeine SS (General SS) was the administrative/political branch, always noted for the use of the (cool, "intimidating") black uniforms, frequently seen in the Jewtube (sometimes shown incorrectly as working in concentration camps, etc.) :speechles

Sicherheitsdienst (Security Service) or SS-SD was the security/intelligence branch, further divided into sections dealing with labor, law, nationality, minorities, race & health, culture, occupied territories, etc. Associated with Reinhard Heydrich, who made it into a very efficient organization.

SS-Totenkopfverbände was in charge of the concentration camps, signified by the Totenkopf collar insignia.

As for the Waffen SS, originally only Germanic foreign volunteers were permitted, then it expanded to include other ethnicities (including, in the late-war period, Kavkaz and Central Asian ethnicities). Only Germans wore the SS runic insignia (the exceptions are police units who wore different patches; SS Panzer Division Totenkopf and the SS-Totenkopfverbände wore death's head patches), the foreign volunteers had special runic / ethnic / nationalist insignia.

I think one should look for Allgemeine SS or Sicherheitsdienst pictures for Nordic Germans, these branches would likely have more elitist racial attitudes. It was this group for whom mate selection guides, etc were written for - the elite within the elite.

Dr. Brandt
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 08:24 PM
I most certainly do not have a distinct dislike of Germans. I would like you to rescind that statement, Loki. I have a distinct dislike of ethnic chauvinists. German National Socialism, for all the emphasis it supposedly put on race, did more to harm relations between Nordish countries than anything else. Any true Nordicist would realize this.

:coffee: I will let someone else answer to this utter nonsense Mr. Rebbe!



That man in the photo appears to be an Alpine, and the first thing I thought of when I looked at him was that he looks like the chap on the "Untermensch" poster

a) It's not a "Poster" but the cover of a brochure.
b) You certainly need some eyeglasses.
c) It doesn't interest me the slightest how atractive you find certain Germans and if you fancy their eye- or haircolour. All that matters to me is if they are good Germans and did their patriotic duty for our Fatherland, i.e. fighting off yankee and bolshevik scum.


Don't feel too bad though, he could have Slavic blood in him.

I wouldn't know what to feel "bad" about, since there is no such thing as "slavic blood". :rofl:

Johnny Reb
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 08:35 PM
:coffee: I will let someone else answer to this utter nonsense Mr. Rebbe!

I would hope so. It was addressed to Loki.


a) It's not a "Poster" but the cover of a brochure.

Semantics


b) You certainly need some eyeglasses.

How would you classify him? Hallstatt?


c) It doesn't interest me the slightest how atractive you find certain Germans and if you fancy their eye- or haircolour.

You're in the wrong place if you don't care about pigmentation and cranial-facial morphology.


All that matters to me is if they are good Germans and did their patriotic duty for our Fatherland, i.e. fighting off yankee and bolshevik scum.

Well I can understand why you aren't a racial materialist.


I wouldn't know what to feel "bad" about, since there is no such thing as "slavic blood". :rofl:

:rolleyes: It's just a phrase.

friedrich braun
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 09:13 PM
Genetic study which illustrates that Russians are genetically the least European people in Europe (and significantly less European than western Europeans):

Supplementary information

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/data/298/5602/2381/DC1/1

for Genetic structure of human populations

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12493913&dopt=Abstract

Caucasoid Component in Several Populations

According to the supplementary information (see above) for Genetic Structure of Human Populations (see above), the combined membership coefficients for the two Caucasoid clusters (general+Kalash) are the following (only pred. Caucasoid populations listed, and major non-Caucasoid component, defined as exceeding 0.05, listed in parentheses):

Tuscan 1.00
Orcadian 0.99
Basque 0.99
Sardinian 0.99
Druze 0.99
Kalash 0.99
French 0.98
Italian 0.98
Adygei 0.96
Palestinian 0.96
Russian 0.94
Balochi 0.94
Bedouin 0.93 (+0.06 Negroid)
Brahui 0.93
Makrani 0.89 (+0.05 Negroid)
Sindhi 0.88 (+0.06 Mongoloid)
Pathan 0.87 (+0.09 Mongoloid)
Burusho 0.79 (+0.17 Mongoloid)
Mozabite 0.76 (+0.23 Negroid)
Hazara 0.53 (+0.45 Mongoloid)
Uigur 0.46 (+0.53 Mongoloid)

(total Europe) 0.98
(total Middle East) 0.93 (+0.06 Negroid)
(total C/S Asia) 0.84 (+0.13 Mongoloid)

Russians have a 4% membership coefficient in the Mongoloid clusters.


Mongoloid mtDNA has been detected in Russians (1.49%), Poles (1.83%), Bosnians (1.3%) [1]

[1] Annals of Human Genetics. Volume 67 Issue 5 Page 412 - September 2003

The autosomal DNA study showed that Russians are approximately 94% Caucasoid in contrast to more western Europeans (who range from 98%-100%).

This study supports the idea that Russians and Eastern Europeans have a greater percentage of East Asian admixture than central and western Europeans. No surprise there.

friedrich braun
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 09:22 PM
It is insufficient to compare two nationalities by judging one portrait each as being representative.

LOL-- that pic looks like it was late at night (look at their tired faces sporting 5 + p.m. shadows) in a windowless room with with only a flashlight serving as light.

For that reason pics can be useless. I've seen two pics of Perun, in one pic he looks like a swarthy Turk, in the other one he appears White. A lack of adequate lighting was responsible for the original classification.

Siegfried
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 09:28 PM
But wasn't the SS supposed to be nordic only? I thought they required a pedigree.

IIRC:
Not Nordic only, but 'Aryan' only. Aryan was basically defined with the German(ic) world as the core population, but admixture from kindred European peoples was generally accepted. Members did indeed have to prove racial purity using a pedigree going back many generations, usually drawn from the archives of the Church. The more German(ic), the better.

friedrich braun
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 09:36 PM
I have a distinct dislike of ethnic chauvinists.

How about "racial chauvinists" or "Nordish chauvinists" or "European chauvinists" or "pigmentation chauvinists" do you also have a problem with them? Why are some forms of chauvinism acceptable and others are not? Where did Dr. Brandt appear to you as an "ethnic chauvinist" in this thread? Further, you've made several anti-German remarks; hence, if there's an ethnic chauvinist here it's you -- not that I have a particular objection to that, mind you -- but don't try to hypocritically project onto others your own sins.

Loki
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 09:58 PM
I most certainly do not have a distinct dislike of Germans. I would like you to rescind that statement, Loki. I have a distinct dislike of ethnic chauvinists. German National Socialism, for all the emphasis it supposedly put on race, did more to harm relations between Nordish countries than anything else. Any true Nordicist would realize this.
Johnny, you would know better than I do regarding your take on Germans.

Regarding Germans and National Socialism: You'll have to understand that for Germans, the National Socialist era is something very special - a time where Germans could be proud to be Germans, and live their dream of being a cohesive, racialist society. The crux of NS is certainly not anti-Slavism -- it is a positive, proud introspective attitude, rather than an outward negativity. Unfortunately the war brought bitter feelings between Slav and German, and I would not expect any Slav to hark back to the time of National Socialist Germany. However, perhaps you need to try and see it through their eyes, and notice their desire to be proud in their nation and country once again. What is undeniable about National Socialist Germany, is that it was pro-Nordish, and highly regarded the Nordic race. The present, modern Germany doesn't care.


Dr. Brandt. This is the Northern European forum, not the German portal and certainly not the Dinaric portal. I'll speak as I see fit, and trust that Loki accepts pro-Nordic dissenting opinion. That man in the photo appears to be an Alpine, and the first thing I thought of when I looked at him was that he looks like the chap on the "Untermensch" poster. Don't feel too bad though, he could have Slavic blood in him.
You are free and welcome to speak your mind and heart.

Loki
Sunday, November 7th, 2004, 10:00 PM
These "my country is more Nordic than your country" pissing contests are a waste of space. Everyone knows there are Nordic Germans and non-Nordic Germans, Nordic Rus and non-Nordic Rus. Germans are Nordic in a Fälish/Hallstatt/Borreby sense and Rus are Nordic in a Corded/East Balic sense.

A sensible post, Lg.

Johnny Reb
Monday, November 8th, 2004, 12:18 AM
How about "racial chauvinists" or "Nordish chauvinists" or "European chauvinists" or "pigmentation chauvinists" do you also have a problem with them? Why are some forms of chauvinism acceptable and others are not?

If the main focus of this forum is Nordish (or in Skadi's case, European racial) preservation only, then ethnic chauvinism is very divisive. I'm not a hard-core nordicist (to the point of denigrating others), but I think it's silly that a site devoted to Nordic preservation would allow non-nords to create hostility between other members.


Where did Dr. Brandt appear to you as an "ethnic chauvinist" in this thread?

I didn't mention him by name, but he does fall into that category.


"Rofl!

Fritz, you should use larger fonts! Slant eyed mongols might have difficulty reading it. :D"

and this gem

http://www.forums.skadi.net/showpost.php?p=66727&postcount=94

Anybody who has been around this scene more than two weeks knows that Brandt is vehemently anti-Slavic, and gets away with comments that, if the tables were turned, would get anybody else banned on this supposedly ethnically neutral website..


Further, you've made several anti-German remarks in this thread; hence, if there's an ethnic chauvinist here it's you -- not that I have a particular objection to that, mind you -- but don't try to hypocritically project onto others your own sins.

I don't believe I have, but I'd be willing to explain myself if you would provide examples. I have said what is common knowledge, and has been said before on this site, that there is both Nordic and other, non-Nordic components to the German people, just like there is in any other North-Central European country.

Pomor
Monday, November 8th, 2004, 04:27 AM
Why don't we take a closer look at that comparison photograph which alledgedly proves that these "Russians" look more "nordic" than those "ukranian" Germans.
I recommend that everyone downloads the picture and looks at it with a magnifying glass. But be sure to hold a puke-bag at hand, because what you are going to see looks rather uneuropean. I have seen better looking inmates of our concentration camps than these "soldiers". Some of them show armenoid/jewish traits, others look like crimminal retards (which they probably are!), others are obviously asiatic, others have a much darker tan. They could all audition for leading roles in "The adams family" or "The Munsters". It doesn't surprise me the slightest that such prime examples of bolshevik "Russia" would later go on a raping and looting spree through civilized Europe, destroying churches, slaughtering children and sodomizing the cattle of our peasants.
Thank you Mr. Pomor for providing this picture. Unfortunately for you, your lil sceeme backfired.
Compared to any one of these fine "specimens" of "russian nordics" :rofl: Himmler looks like a greek God in comparison. :laugh:

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1930&stc=1

http://physics.csusb.edu/~amp/summer97/f/munsters.jpg :rofl:


Awesome job, Dr. Brandt. I'll save that pic, as it demonstrates even better the Nordic character of the Great Russians. :viking3:

friedrich braun
Monday, November 8th, 2004, 05:02 AM
If the main focus of this forum is Nordish (or in Skadi's case, European racial) preservation

Skadi's focus is certainly not European preservation.

ethnic chauvinism is very divisive.

OK, what is a Germanophobe like yourself doing here sowing division then?

I'm not a hard-core nordicist

What's a "hard-core Nordicist"?

(to the point of denigrating others)

Again, why are you denigrating Germans in this thread?

but I think it's silly that a site devoted to Nordic preservation would allow non-nords to create hostility between other members

Yes, so why don't you haul ass out of here instead of imperiously issuing instructions to Loki on how to run his site?

Anybody who has been around this scene more than two weeks knows that Brandt is vehemently anti-Slavic, and gets away with comments that, if the tables were turned, would get anybody else banned on this supposedly ethnically neutral website..

That's an outright malicious lie! And it only shows your bad faith. I know of few people in cyberspace more pro-Russian, Ukrainian, Croat, Bulgarian, and Slovak than Dr. Brandt. He doesn't like Czecks and Poles and those categories hardly constitute all Slavs.

Johnny Reb
Monday, November 8th, 2004, 08:07 AM
OK, what is a Germanophobe like yourself doing here sowing division then?

I'm not a Germanophobe, and you've yet to tell me where you got that idea from.


What's a "hard-core Nordicist"?

A hard-core nordicist might be someone who gets offended and accuses me of slandering the German people because I classified one German as being Alpine and appearing to be Slavic.


Again, why are you denigrating Germans in this thread?

Where did I do that?


Yes, so why don't you haul ass out of here instead imperiously issuing instructions to Loki on how to run his site?

I am Nordid, and I haven't told Loki how to do anything. Are you even reading the same thread that the rest of us are???



That's an outright malicious lie! And it only shows your bad faith. I know of few people in cyberspace more pro-Russian, Ukrainian, Croat, Bulgarian, and Slovak than Dr. Brandt. He doesn't like Czecks and Poles and those categories hardly constitute all Slavs.

I didn't know Brandt was such a big fan of the Russians, given his posts like the one I recently linked to, but I'll ammend my statement to limit his hatred to Western Slavs.

Johnny Reb
Thursday, November 11th, 2004, 11:40 PM
That's what I thought. 3 days and you haven't backed up your outrageous claims. :rolleyes:

cosmocreator
Friday, November 12th, 2004, 05:49 AM
This boy's nose is too short and concave to the racial pinnacle of man. From lg's signature regarding him the racial pinnacle of man.

Johnny Reb
Friday, November 12th, 2004, 06:01 AM
I see epicanthic folds too.

Glenlivet
Friday, November 12th, 2004, 07:59 PM
He remind me of the Norwegian Pop Idol winner Kurt Nilsen (although he is less extreme, and he look more Borreby than E-B). Kurt Nilsen lack the epicanthus though.

http://www.vg.no/bilder/bildarkiv/1050472614.jpg

http://waynesword.palomar.edu/images/epican1.jpg



I see epicanthic folds too.

friedrich braun
Friday, November 12th, 2004, 08:02 PM
That fellow looks like he has Down's syndrome.

Evolved
Monday, November 15th, 2004, 06:55 PM
"He is superior, because I say so." That is basically your argument in regard to the guy in your sig, isn't it, cosmo?

Loki
Monday, November 15th, 2004, 10:50 PM
"He is superior, because I say so." That is basically your argument in regard to the guy in your sig, isn't it, cosmo?
I say he is superior too. Every man with common sense can see it.

cosmocreator
Tuesday, November 16th, 2004, 06:57 AM
"He is superior, because I say so." That is basically your argument in regard to the guy in your sig, isn't it, cosmo?


Nope.

Those traits that deviate furthest from the ape form:
tall,
long legs,
shorts torso,
compressed zygomatic arches,
prominant chin,
thin, high rooted, high bridged nose,
small teeth,
high vault, in addition to a high forehead

possibly more

Glenlivet
Tuesday, November 16th, 2004, 01:07 PM
Why high vault? That would mean that Northwestern European populations who are often lower-vaulted (particularly the western Frisians!) are not "furthest from the ape form".




high vault, in addition to a high forehead

possibly more

Evolved
Tuesday, November 16th, 2004, 01:44 PM
I still maintain that different races, subraces and species are superior and inferior in various ways, that each has strengths and weaknesses, and there is no "master race" or perfect being.

Glenlivet
Tuesday, November 16th, 2004, 02:48 PM
Do you also think that beauty is in the eye of the beholder?



I still maintain that different races, subraces and species are superior and inferior in various ways, that each has strengths and weaknesses, and there is no "master race" or perfect being.

Whodamn
Tuesday, November 16th, 2004, 02:53 PM
I still maintain that different races, subraces and species are superior and inferior in various ways, that each has strengths and weaknesses, and there is no "master race" or perfect being.

Look at the state of development of the different races, for example their scientific achievements in nuclear technology and electronics. Another example: the top in body-building and weight-lifting is white, though the blacks seem to do fine also. But they can only achieve this by using western food, western training facilities and methods, and western developed anabolic-steroids.

The white race is superior by far, no doubt about it.

Loki
Tuesday, November 16th, 2004, 07:17 PM
I still maintain that different races, subraces and species are superior and inferior in various ways, that each has strengths and weaknesses, and there is no "master race" or perfect being.
Nobody said there is a perfect being - you are exaggerating the claim. Superiority/inferiority is much more likely to exist than absolute equality. In fact, if you look at the world it would require a high degree of fictional thinking to imagine racial equality. Such a thought would go against every evolutionary principle.

Now you can "maintain" and imagine equality as much as you like, but it won't make non-Nordish people more superior than they are in reality.

Loki
Tuesday, November 16th, 2004, 07:18 PM
The white race is superior by far, no doubt about it.
Ladygoeth knows that, she is just being provocative. :icon_wink

Triglav
Wednesday, November 17th, 2004, 03:14 AM
Why high vault? That would mean that Northwestern European populations who are often lower-vaulted (particularly the western Frisians!) are not "furthest from the ape form".

Why should they?

As for other "superior traits", I'm sure that Congoids have the longest legs, so there we go.

cosmocreator
Wednesday, November 17th, 2004, 03:22 AM
I'm sure apes are superior at being apes but nobody said anything about superior/inferior except lg.

I'm saying in aggregate attributes, Nordic is furthest from the ape form. No type is perfect yet. Even low vaulted western Nordic types are further removed from the ape form than non-Nordics.

Glenlivet
Wednesday, November 17th, 2004, 08:39 AM
I did not say that they should, rather why they should be second to higher-vaulted types.



Why should they?

Von Braun
Wednesday, November 17th, 2004, 04:26 PM
The funny thing is that this is not how the average German looks like. His look is more common in Scandinavia and Russia.

It is possible for population A to be blonder than population B and still have more non-White admixture. There are blondes who are blatantly part Asian in Russia, and I have also seen blonde people who are 1/8 or 1/4 Amerindian.

However, since that man does not look Asian at all, I would have to disagree with you and say that his look is indeed more common in Germany than in Russia, for the simple fact that Russia is so impure (regardless of its blondism rate).

Von Braun
Wednesday, November 17th, 2004, 04:39 PM
Nope.

Those traits that deviate furthest from the ape form:
tall,
long legs,
shorts torso,
compressed zygomatic arches,
prominant chin,
thin, high rooted, high bridged nose,
small teeth,
high vault, in addition to a high forehead

possibly more

I'd like to add the non-prognathous jaw. This is a very big item, in that it is so blatantly obvious when comparing primitive to advanced races.

Glenlivet
Wednesday, November 17th, 2004, 07:58 PM
But Mongoloid type of mtDNA is low everywhere in Russia. It's lowest in the southern parts.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12500679&dopt=Abstract

Bashkirs, Tatars, and Chuvashes, have more, but they are not ethnically Russian.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10546116&dopt=Abstract

"This study also revealed no or low Mongoloid admixture in the mitochondrial gene pool of Eastern Slavs."

http://dienekes.ifreepages.com/blog/archives/000456.html





However, since that man does not look Asian at all, I would have to disagree with you and say that his look is indeed more common in Germany than in Russia, for the simple fact that Russia is so impure (regardless of its blondism rate).

Loki
Wednesday, November 17th, 2004, 08:17 PM
But Mongoloid type of mtDNA is low everywhere in Russia. It's lowest in the southern parts.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12500679&dopt=Abstract

Bashkirs, Tatars, and Chuvashes, have more, but they are not ethnically Russian.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10546116&dopt=Abstract

"This study also revealed no or low Mongoloid admixture in the mitochondrial gene pool of Eastern Slavs."

http://dienekes.ifreepages.com/blog/archives/000456.html
And what about the male input? Y analysis?