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Zyklop
Saturday, October 2nd, 2004, 01:18 PM
I´m very impressed by the books of Jürgen Spanuth (1907-1998) and his theory of a nordic Atlantis. Modern archeological founds more and more prove his assumptions.

My summary:

The dating of Atlantis, 9000 years before Solon´s stay in Egypt must be converted to mooncycles because that´s how Egyptian priests calculated the calendar. Thus, 9000 mooncyles are 673 years and give the year 1232 before Christ. At this time the world suffered from heavy natural disasters and the so called "Sea people" began invading Egypt.

Solon´s report about Atlantis is a reinterpretation of old Egyptian inscriptions and papyruses. The inscriptions at the temple of Medinet Habu include the oldest descriptions of a battle on sea, namely that of the Egyptians against the "Sea people".The Atlantians in Solon´s report also reached the borders of Egypt. Most probably the Egyptian story about Atlantis is a renarration of stories told by captured "Sea people" about their home.

The inscriptions at Medinet Habu, which describe the battle of Ramses III versus the Sea people (Hainebu = Northmen), explains their origin from the utter end of sin wur, the great water circle (which always means the Ocean not the Mediterranean sea), and explicitly the northern end at the "farthest darkness" beyond the ninth arc.

The ancient Atlantic Ocean was named after Atlas the bearer of the earth-axis which points to the northstar. The Germanics and Egyptians also believed in a northern earth-axis. In the Germanic mythology it is called Irminsul in the Egyptian Tat. In the antique the Atlantic Sea always referred to what nowadays is called the North Sea.

The mystic substance orichalcos could be amber. Amber once was valued like gold and in fact was called gold of the north. It also has the described fiery glance and can be coated upon walls when melted with oil. The amber trade from northern Europe disappeared since about 1200 b.c. for centuries and so the Egyptians of Solon´s time really didn´t know what this substance could have been. Beside orichalcos the report about Atlantis also mentions the mining of copper and the only place on earth where amber is found alongside copper is Helgoland in the North Sea. The described climate would also match because the bronze time in northern Europe was so mild that there even was cultivation of vine in Scandinavia.

Analogously, the similarities between Homer´s land of the Phaiaks, which is the mystical home of the Heraclids (the Dorians) and the Atlantis tale point to a common source of these two stories. The Dorians show many parallels with the "Sea people". There also are similarities in the Germanic mythology.

Spanuth´s works are rejected by many German historians on grounds of being politically incorrect.His facts however never could be disproved. On the contrary, modern archeology supports his theory more and more. One of Spanuth´s diving expeditions around Helgoland even brought up the remnains of a wall coloured in black, red and white. The same colours as in the Atlantis tale.


Book suggestions:
Die Atlanter - Volk aus dem Bernsteinland
Die Rückkehr der Herakliden

Zyklop
Saturday, October 2nd, 2004, 01:19 PM
I´m very impressed by the books of Jürgen Spanuth (1907-1998) and his theory of a nordic Atlantis.

My summary:

The dating of Atlantis, 9000 years before Solon´s stay in Egypt must be converted to mooncycles because that´s how Egyptian priests calculated the calendar. Thus, 9000 mooncyles are 673 years and give the year 1232 before Christ. At this time the world suffered from heavy natural disasters and the so called "Sea people" began invading Egypt.

Solon´s report about Atlantis is a reinterpretation of old Egyptian inscriptions and papyruses. The inscriptions at the temple of Medinet Habu include the oldest descriptions of a battle on sea, namely that of the Egyptians against the "Sea people".The Atlantians in Solon´s report also reached the borders of Egypt. Most probably the Egyptian story about Atlantis is a renarration of stories told by captured "Sea people" about their home.

The inscriptions at Medinet Habu, which describe the battle of Ramses III versus the Sea people (Hainebu = Northmen), explains their origin from the utter end of sin wur, the great water circle (which always means the Ocean not the Mediterranean sea), and explicitly the northern end at the "farthest darkness" beyond the ninth arc.

The ancient Atlantic Ocean was named after Atlas the bearer of the earth-axis which points to the northstar. The Germanics and Egyptians also believed in a northern earth-axis. In the Germanic mythology it is called Irminsul in the Egyptian Tat. In the antique the Atlantic Sea always referred to what nowadays is called the North Sea.

The mystic substance orichalcos could be amber. Amber once was valued like gold and in fact was called gold of the north. It also has the described fiery glance and can be coated upon walls when melted with oil. The amber trade from northern Europe disappeared since about 1200 b.c. for centuries and so the Egyptians of Solon´s time really didn´t know what this substance could have been. Beside orichalcos the report about Atlantis also mentions the mining of copper and the only place on earth where amber is found alongside copper is Helgoland in the North Sea. The described climate would also match because the bronze time in northern Europe was so mild that there even was cultivation of vine in Scandinavia.

Analogously, the similarities between Homer´s land of the Phaiaks, which is the mystical home of the Heraclids (the Dorians) and the Atlantis tale point to a common source of these two stories. The Dorians show many parallels with the "Sea people". There also are similarities in the Germanic mythology.

Spanuth´s works are rejected by many German historians on grounds of being politically incorrect.His facts however never could be disproved. On the contrary, modern archeology supports his theory more and more. One of Spanuth´s diving expeditions around Helgoland even brought up the remnains of a wall coloured in black, red and white. The same colours as in the Atlantis tale.


Book suggestions:
Die Atlanter - Volk aus dem Bernsteinland
Die Rückkehr der Herakliden

Zyklop
Saturday, October 2nd, 2004, 01:20 PM
The following maps show the distribution of a special Germanic bronze sword called Griffzungenschwert which matches the travel route of the so called "Sea people".

https://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=76689&d=1096719595

https://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=76688&d=1096719595

Zyklop
Saturday, October 2nd, 2004, 01:22 PM
The following maps show the distribution of a special Germanic bronze sword called Griffzungenschwert which matches the travel route of the so called "Sea people".

AryanKrieger
Saturday, October 2nd, 2004, 02:14 PM
This is a fascinating thread that you have started.
The subject of Atlantis is one close to my heart.
I have 2 questions to put to you-
Do you consider Atlantis a seperate civilisation from Hyperborea and Thule as does Helena Blavatsky or are they somehow variations of the same lost civilisation?
Secondly are you familiar with the works of Wilhelm Landig? I am unable to obtain his publications in either English or German. Do you know where I can obtain his works or any useful web links?
Thank you.:)

Zyklop
Saturday, October 2nd, 2004, 03:16 PM
This is a fascinating thread that you have started.
The subject of Atlantis is one close to my heart.
I have 2 questions to put to you-
Do you consider Atlantis a seperate civilisation from Hyperborea and Thule as does Helena Blavatsky or are they somehow variations of the same lost civilisation?
Secondly are you familiar with the works of Wilhelm Landig? I am unable to obtain his publications in either English or German. Do you know where I can obtain his works or any useful web links?
Thank you.:)

Well, Spanuth indeed connects Hyperborea and Thule with the Atlantis myth. But contrary to Blavatsky his works are absolutely non-esoterical and he only uses historical sources. His Atlantis is just a proto-Germanic kingdom which became wealthy and influental through establishing an amber monopoly.
I haven´t read anything so far by Wilhelm Landig but for "rare" ;) German books you should try www.zvab.com
I found more than 10 entries for him.

cosmocreator
Saturday, October 2nd, 2004, 08:18 PM
The ancient Atlantic Ocean was named after Atlas the bearer of the earth-axis which points to the northstar.


The earth's axis doesn't always point to the North Star. The earth's axis goes through a precession every 26,000 years.

http://www.crystalinks.com/precession.html

Telperion
Saturday, October 2nd, 2004, 08:20 PM
Another "northern" Atlantis theory postulates that Atlantis was located in the British Isles, prior to 3000 BC. This theory is developed by Paul Dunbavin in his book Atlantis of the West: The Case for Britain's Drowned Megalithic Civilization (Revised Edition: Carroll & Graf Publishers, New York, 2003).

Amazon.com summarizes the book as follows:


Do Welsh legends of lost cities beneath the sea match Plato's descriptions of the island civilization of Atlantis? Do Irish myths of a golden age when the eastern Irish Sea was a flowery plain describe the same place Herodotus said disappeared beneath the waves during a single day and night of geological upheaval millennia before Ancient Greece? Author and researcher Paul Dunbavin has embarked on a multidisciplinary investigation into how science could explain such a catastrophe and how modern archaeological findings point to a possible location for lost Atlantis. This book theorizes that the Middle Neolithic period around 5,000 years ago was a time of dramatic climate and sea-level changes all around the world. From an up-to-date scientific perspective, Dunbavin distills an array of significant geological theories and then examines the archaeological and mythological record-which together leads to a lost land thousands of years ago in the Irish Sea that was still mentioned in ancient Welsh histories recorded in the sixth century. Atlantis of the West presents a remarkable congruence of evidence from multiple disciplines to link the fabled lost Atlantis with the vanished Neolithic civilization of the megalithic builders.

I've read the book myself, and found it to be quite interesting. The author's argument is very complex, since he draws on everything from paleoclimatology to Celtic mythology to develop his theme.

But in a nutshell, he suggests that prior to 3000BC the coastal pattern worldwide was different than it is now, and that within Europe an axis running through what is now Denmark separated lands to the West, which were higher than they are now, and lands to the East, which are lower than they are now. Thus, while large portions of the Baltic countries were below sea level, large portions of presently submerged land off of northwestern Europe were above sea level. The British Isles specifically were one island, centered around a flat plain (now lying beneath the Irish Sea). The author finds parallels in geography, mineralogy and climate between the Britain of that time and Plato's Atlantis, also positing that Orichalcum was a type of ruddy gold that was once found in Wales (although it was essentially mined out by the Romans). He draws on mythology to sketch out the details of the people of "Atlantis", also suggesting that their influence stretched along the entire Atlantic seaboard of Europe and into the interior. He also examines the megalithic archeaology of Britain and adjacent areas to support his argument.

The author speculates that Atlantis was destroyed by some sort of geological upheval, possibly related to an asteroid or comet impact in the oceans prior to 3000 BC, which had isostatic consequences that drowned the low-lying areas of northwestern Europe (including the Irish Sea plain) while upraising the lowlying areas of northeastern Europe. This cataclysm would have affected sea levels and coastlines all around the world, however, accounting for the universal prevalence of a Great Flood myth, even in distant regions which presumably had no contact with Atlantis.

Anyway, the book is worth reading as another take on this subject, for those with an interest in it.

Zyklop
Sunday, October 3rd, 2004, 06:53 AM
Interesting theory. Thanks for posting.