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Awar
Wednesday, December 24th, 2003, 06:26 PM
Who are the coolest Germanic people?
Similar to my 'Coolest Slavs -pointless thread tm' I've decided to ask all of you to vote for the historically and culturally COOLEST GERMANIC PEOPLE.

I've broken them down by linguistic, ethnic and regional grouping, just so there are more candidates, and because there are differences in achievments between various historical regions.

PS. Moderators: if I've forgotten to mention someone, please add them as an option to the poll.

Allenson
Wednesday, December 24th, 2003, 06:44 PM
I have to go with the Dutch as I'm of around half New Netherlander heritage....and they're good at growing things. And I don't mean Tulips. ;-)

Tough call though as I've always had an affinity for the Angles and Saxons...

The Blond Beast
Wednesday, December 24th, 2003, 06:51 PM
I have to go with the Dutch as I'm of around half New Netherlander heritage....and they're good at growing things. And I don't mean Tulips. ;-)

Tough call though as I've always had an affinity for the Angles and Saxons...


Icelanders (even though my mother is Norwegian)!

They don't bother anyone. : )

Ederico
Wednesday, December 24th, 2003, 06:54 PM
I voted Norwegians, I have relatives there.

Ederico
Wednesday, December 24th, 2003, 06:56 PM
And I forgot to add that the Norwegian Black Metal scene is/was probably the best Black Metal scene ever, and I love Black Metal.

Gladstone
Wednesday, December 24th, 2003, 06:59 PM
Swedes! The Denmark and Icelanders are pretty cool as well.

The Blond Beast
Wednesday, December 24th, 2003, 07:06 PM
And I forgot to add that the Norwegian Black Metal scene is/was probably the best Black Metal scene ever, and I love Black Metal.

They are too hardcore in Norway; a little too over the top for me.

Varg Vikernes; black metallers breaking into morgues and decapitating corpses and such.

[And Dimmu Borgir is dreadful.]

Gladstone
Wednesday, December 24th, 2003, 07:10 PM
They are too hardcore in Norway; a little too over the top for me.

Varg Vikernes; black metallers breaking into morgues and decapitating corpses and such.

Am not too much into the "black metal" scene. What was decapitating corpses about..shock?

Ederico
Wednesday, December 24th, 2003, 07:23 PM
I beg to differ, Dimmu Borgir kicks ass albeit being too commercial. Great Norwegian band although their awesome drummer is English.

Awar
Wednesday, December 24th, 2003, 08:26 PM
I voted for English, they have the best humor( ever),and out of Germanic peoples, they have: best designed cars, incredibly interesting history ( a little more interesting than Austrians ), best rock music, best language, best style ( when their style is bad, it's bad with style :-D ( see English football fans, only fools and horses series, cockney accent etc. ).

Also, as a plus, they are largely mixes with Kelts, who I adore :-)

Mac Seafraidh
Wednesday, December 24th, 2003, 09:09 PM
My answer does not really answer on the poll because of this North/South split "dilly of a pickle" I would just answer Germans in general. EIN VOLK (The Germans) Not sectors of Germany.I have repespect for all the Germanic countries though. They are all rich in history and culture. I would rather go to(Flemish,Germanic mostly) Belgium than the Netherlands tough. When I hear the word nords it just makes me mad because the Scandavians are the only ones really counsidered nord. But this Nord thing about racial anthropology which is kinda dumb because a nation is repsented by all "their" people and what I mean about that is all Italians belong to Italy etc.,etc.Yes it is only based on boundaries, but that should end and Europe should be restored to the old. In America, I do not like Southerners too much, but some I have gotten to like. They speak differently. Racial differences somewhat, but any way the Siuthern US sucks.

+Suomut+
Wednesday, December 24th, 2003, 11:23 PM
I voted for the Norse simply because I've seen so many of that ethnicity with such beautiful countenances. Oh, I suppose also according to TEMPERATURE! they are INDEED the 'coolest.' ;-)

AngryPotato
Wednesday, December 24th, 2003, 11:54 PM
I had to go with the Swedes on this one. The Swedes I've dealt with have been the funniest, most dedicated people. Being from America I haven't had much interaction with the people in the old world.

Gladstone
Wednesday, December 24th, 2003, 11:55 PM
I voted for English, they have the best humor( ever),and out of Germanic peoples, they have: best designed cars, incredibly interesting history ( a little more interesting than Austrians ), best rock music, best language, best style ( when their style is bad, it's bad with style :-D ( see English football fans, only fools and horses series, cockney accent etc. ).

Also, as a plus, they are largely mixes with Kelts, who I adore :-)

I should have added the English to my list. They do have outrageous humor (Fawlty Towers, Monty Python, the early Benny Hill) and quite a lot of refined social habits. Then the eccentricity too. They also have that very strange TV show from the 60's called The Prisoner, but who would watch that?;-)

Below is a picture of London (when it was still London) in 1935 celebrating King George V's twenty five years on the throne.

Nordgau
Thursday, December 25th, 2003, 12:37 AM
The divisions of Germans which MVSSOLINI criticizes here is indeed somehow questionable. I guess, with "Prussians" and "Bavarians" all in all mental and tribal differences between the Northern, the Low Germans and the Southern, the Upper Germans are tried to grasp. "Prussia" can be taken with some generousity as chiffre for the Northern Germans, as the state Prussia, which's source Brandenburg was, seized in its last times nearly the whole north of Germany. But one has to consider here that Prussia consisted of parts which were tribal-mental also different from each other, such as the Rhinelanders in the west, the old Lower Saxons and the new settlement tribes in the lands east from the Elbe. Also, on the other hand several north German areas such as e. g. Mecklenburg never were part of the Prussian state.
Bavarians now are from South Germans the one who show their special tribal character most striking, but if they are taken as South German counterpart to "Prussians" in the north, many Germans like Upper Saxons, Swabians and Franconians at the banks of Rhine and Main as well as Hessians get left out of the picture.
The Austrians are also Germans, Germans of Bavarian tribe (only the people in the little Austrian Bundesland Vorarlberg are Allemanics). To put them outside of Germans is only justified from the development in the last 150 years which let grow out an own Austrian independent state, but from their ethnicity they are Germans, Bavarians. If one excludes the Austrians for such reasons, one also had to exclude the German Swiss; there the identity of being something own, independent from Germany is higher than in Austria because of the historical special development as confederal state. Nevertheless, despite of this strong special state identity of the Swiss, they are ethnically Germans of Alemannic tribe.
I skip Luxemburg and Liechtenstein, two states who mainly kept because of their geographical position and political reasons their independence as own little states in the 19th century; the Luxemburgers are of Mosel-Franconian, the Liechtensteiners of Alemannic tribe.

To figure out the division lines within Germans is rather difficult, because one has to think of cultural-tribal divisions as well as of historical-state divisions. Culturally-tribal, more than a great division in Northern Low and Southern and Middle Upper Germans is not in it, if one doesn't want to dissipate energies in numerous sub-divisions. Also, one has to ask, if the division lines are really that higher in Germany that they make a division of Germans necessary, but not of the other Germanic people. The folkish-cultural unity of all Germans is since the origination of the Germans from the Germanic speaking people in the eastern part of the Frankish empire not doubtable, despite of all dynastic and state particularism, and the tribes are only regional variants of the one folkish being "German". Also the language and thus cultural cleavage which threatened to come into existence between Low and Upper Germans, grew together again, despite of the outgrowing of the Netherlands.
Even more difficult are the historical-political and state divisions which one wants to notice at the Germans, if one considers different historical phases. One would see here today only a) "Germans" (in the recent German state), b) "Austrians" and c) "German Swiss" (I skip again Lux., Liecht. and also ethnic Germans in Alsace, South Tyrol etc.), historically at least for the latest modern times one big state Prussia in the north (which today doesn't exist anymore and can't really be taken as chiffre for the identity of the nowerday northern Germans), her opponent Austria in the south and more or less bigger or smaller states in South and Middle Germany.
So a division which considers the old tribal and mental divisions as well as the historical-political divisions of different times as well as the regional identities which people have today isn't so easy.

To cut a long story short: the Germans are to see despite of all tribal variants of their folkish character and of all historical state particularism (of which today mainly Austria and of course the special case Switzerland are left) as one people, one folk in an ethnic sense.

And of course they are the coolest Germanics. Already "our" Hitler is, regardless what one thinks of "the Nazis", a historical phenomenon that can't be beaten so fast. A right-wing extremist party leader with a little square moustache and the hair combed oblique into the forehead, standing with trenchcoat, long boots and his raised right arm in front of masses who listen his guttural voice and follow his order, blood-red flags with archaic symbols everywhere, that reaches the absolute coolness factor.

But it would be a bit senseless to vote for my own folk, apart from the fact that it is only offered in dissolved lumps as Prussians, Bavarians and Austrians. Well, I really hesitate to whom I should give my vote. English, Danes, Dutch, Norwegians... all excellent, agreeable fellow-folks with each having a unique character, and I wouldn't want to miss one single of them. Well, I think, I'll give it to the Swedes. There were some fits of national-folkish awaking in that country in this year which have to be valued. They also give the world the furniture it wants. And then, thank you for the music...

+Suomut+
Thursday, December 25th, 2003, 06:29 AM
Replies courtesy of poor old Suomut, of course! lol ;-)

The divisions of Germans which MVSSOLINI criticizes here is indeed somehow questionable.Indeed. Right when I saw the poll I noticed instantly all the problems within it. The shortcomings in regard to the deutsch are well stated by you. Also, I might add, the 'Boer' catagory should be tossed out because most Afrikanners, being 'colonists,' should naturally identify with being 'Dutch.' Likewise, most Flemmings should identify with being 'Dutch' also. I wouldn't argue against most modern Frisians being considered 'Dutch' for the purposes of this poll either, esp. since there's no one going to vote for Frisians on the poll (other than me--my 2nd vote after the Norse would be the Frisians). Etc., etc., etc. My SALUTE! to MVSSOLINI for putting forth the effort though! :-) It wasn't dumbass Suomut or brilliant Nordgau that dreamed up the poll in the first place! lol ;-)


...Nevertheless, despite of this strong special special state identity of the Swiss, they are ethnically Germans of Alemannic tribe.Man, Nordgau, you just don't know how good it makes me feel to see you express such sentiments! :-| I'm SICK! of the non-sense some others have expressed in opposition to such a sentiment.


But it would be a bit senseless to vote for my own folk, apart from the fact that it is only offered in dissolved lumps as Prussians, Bavarians and Austrians. Well, I really hesitate to whom I should give my vote. English, Danes, Dutch, Norwegians... all excellent, agreeable fellow-folks with each having a unique character, and I wouldn't want to miss one single of them. Well, I think, I'll give it to the Swedes. There were some fits of national-folkish awaking in that country in this year which have to be valued. They also give the world the furniture it wants. And then, thank you for the music...You would give your vote to the Swedes!!! Like they need ANOTHER reason to be COCKY(i.e., arrogant)!!! lol j/k ;-) By your "thank you for the music" quote, do I perceive a man who knows ABBA music?! :-O LOL! ;-) I put Anni Frid Lyngstad FIRST AND FOREMOST!!! among ABBA and she's Sweden's 1/2 German+1/2 Norse songbird!!! So, my vote for the Norse is still justified in honor of her too! :-PPP lol ;-)

Heil Nordgau! I like the new name, sir. :-|

Sigrun Christianson
Thursday, December 25th, 2003, 12:52 PM
Norwegians.

Nordhammer
Thursday, December 25th, 2003, 01:15 PM
The English without a doubt. They have the most interesting personality and sense of comedy. Lord of the Rings, HELLO!

All Germanics are cool though, and contribute in their own special way.

Loki
Thursday, December 25th, 2003, 01:26 PM
AWAR, you think that Germany, which contains the vast bulk of Germanic people, consists only of Prussians, Bavarians and Frisians??? Your poll is ultimately flawed and misleading, to be honest. You dissect the entire German nation into three (only 3!!) tribal sectors, then list all others as nations. The poll is wrong, and I didn't vote because of that. Either you make an entry called "Germans", or you dissect all other Germanic nationalities too, like dividing the Netherlanders into Saxons, Franks and Frisians, Sweden into the Svear and Getae AND add the Swabians, Hessians, Low Saxons, Thuringians, etc etc to make Germany complete.

Nordhammer
Thursday, December 25th, 2003, 01:40 PM
AWAR, you think that Germany, which contains the vast bulk of Germanic people, consists only of Prussians, Bavarians and Frisians??? Your poll is ultimately flawed and misleading, to be honest. You dissect the entire German nation into three (only 3!!) tribal sectors, then list all others as nations. The poll is wrong, and I didn't vote because of that. Either you make an entry called "Germans", or you dissect all other Germanic nationalities too, like dividing the Netherlanders into Saxons, Franks and Frisians, Sweden into the Svear and Getae AND add the Swabians, Hessians, Low Saxons, Thuringians, etc etc to make Germany complete.

Well that's what happens when a non-Germanic creates a Germanic poll. ; )

Loki
Thursday, December 25th, 2003, 01:59 PM
Well that's what happens when a non-Germanic creates a Germanic poll. ; )

True :-)

Awar
Thursday, December 25th, 2003, 03:07 PM
AWAR, you think that Germany, which contains the vast bulk of Germanic people, consists only of Prussians, Bavarians and Frisians??? Your poll is ultimately flawed and misleading, to be honest. You dissect the entire German nation into three (only 3!!) tribal sectors, then list all others as nations. The poll is wrong, and I didn't vote because of that. Either you make an entry called "Germans", or you dissect all other Germanic nationalities too, like dividing the Netherlanders into Saxons, Franks and Frisians, Sweden into the Svear and Getae AND add the Swabians, Hessians, Low Saxons, Thuringians, etc etc to make Germany complete.

In the first post in the thread I asked for moderators to help improve the poll with adding new categories.

I disected the Germanic peoples in the same way I did with Slavic. There is a big difference between Histories and achievments of ( example ) Prussians and Boers, I couldn't just lump them together in the DEUTSCH category.

If you remember my poll about Slavs, I divided them into more sections because although Serbs, Montenegrins, Croats and Bosnians have almost the exact same ancestry/ethnicity, they have much different cultures, religions, histories etc.

I propose some mod to edit the poll and add a few more options.

Awar
Thursday, December 25th, 2003, 03:15 PM
Sorry, Nordhammer, I forgot to add Jawjuhns to the poll :-D

Loki
Thursday, December 25th, 2003, 03:23 PM
In the first post in the thread I asked for moderators to help improve the poll with adding new categories.

I disected the Germanic peoples in the same way I did with Slavic. There is a big difference between Histories and achievments of ( example ) Prussians and Boers, I couldn't just lump them together in the DEUTSCH category.

You can't compare Boers with Prussians. The latter is a distinct German grouping (probably more historical-political than ethnic), whilst the former is a conglomerate of several Germanic nationalities and even some non-Germanic ones.


If you remember my poll about Slavs, I divided them into more sections because although Serbs, Montenegrins, Croats and Bosnians have almost the exact same ancestry/ethnicity, they have much different cultures, religions, histories etc.

I propose some mod to edit the poll and add a few more options.

Unfortunately it is too late to modify the poll, as many people have already cast their vote. Maybe I should make another one....

Awar
Thursday, December 25th, 2003, 03:41 PM
You can't compare Boers with Prussians. The latter is a distinct German grouping (probably more historical-political than ethnic), whilst the former is a conglomerate of several Germanic nationalities and even some non-Germanic ones.

In fact, I'm undecided who's cooler, Boers or Prussians. I'm currently watching a TV series about Boers fighting against Brits, and the strife and history seems very cool, but on the other hand, Prussians were very cool in Kubrick's film "Barry Lyndon".

I don't think that the 'coolness' factor has anything to do with reasonable thinking. To me, Boers are cool just for the fact they live in Afrika, add to that the fight against the Brits, and you got a very cool people.


Unfortunately it is too late to modify the poll, as many people have already cast their vote. Maybe I should make another one....

Nah! Those who wanted to vote for the greater Germany didn't cast their votes yet. Please, just add more options :-)

Nordhammer
Thursday, December 25th, 2003, 03:42 PM
Well, AWAR, since you mentioned it, you could add the Georgia Dutch to the list, consisting of: Salzburgers (from Austria), Palatines (from the southern Rhineland), Swabians (from the Territory of Ulm), and Swiss. The so-called Georgia Dutch represented the largest ethnic group in Georgia in the mid-18th century.

Awar
Thursday, December 25th, 2003, 03:51 PM
Or should I say just "Americans of Germanic ancestry".

Loki
Thursday, December 25th, 2003, 04:04 PM
In fact, I'm undecided who's cooler, Boers or Prussians. I'm currently watching a TV series about Boers fighting against Brits, and the strife and history seems very cool, but on the other hand, Prussians were very cool in Kubrick's film "Barry Lyndon".

I don't think that the 'coolness' factor has anything to do with reasonable thinking. To me, Boers are cool just for the fact they live in Afrika, add to that the fight against the Brits, and you got a very cool people.

We (Boers) used to be a hardy people. I still think the majority of Boers are very cool, and I am proud of my people. They are also mostly a very attractive people, both physically and in character. There is a minority of Boers that I don't like at all. But then again, such a cowardly minority you'll find in any ethnicity.


Nah! Those who wanted to vote for the greater Germany didn't cast their votes yet. Please, just add more options :-)

Sorry, I have already made another one... please don't consider this a snub - I appreciate you making this poll in the first place. :-)

Awar
Thursday, December 25th, 2003, 04:46 PM
Damn! At least make an honourable mention of good ol' Awar :-(

Nordgau
Thursday, December 25th, 2003, 05:34 PM
To me, Boers are cool just for the fact they live in Afrika [...]

I hope that argument won't have any influence to your vote when someone makes a poll where one has to vote for the "coolest race" on earth. Happy Kwanza! http://www.smiliemania.de/smilie.php?smile_ID=297

Awar
Thursday, December 25th, 2003, 05:38 PM
I probably should have said 'survive in Afrika'. Merry Kwanzmas to you too :=D

Evolved
Thursday, December 25th, 2003, 06:47 PM
I voted Austrians. Hitler in Lederhosen (http://www.skalman.nu/third-reich/bilder/hitler-lederhosen.gif) sitting in a Wiener Werkstätte (http://www.christies.com/promos/dec03/1311/overview.asp) chair watching a DVD of Terminator 2 (http://capsi.com/img/dvd/terminator2/2.jpg), Alpine milkmaids (http://www.rehsgalleries.com/catalogthumbs/julien_dupre_a3716_milkmaid_with_cows_sm all.jpg) skiing (http://www.ski-arlberg.com/arlberg-online/) in the background, while eating a chocolate (http://www.erniesdeli.com/ECDImages/Mannermignonwafers.gif) and complaining about the Austro-Hungarian Empire (http://www.porges.net/porges/Images/Maps/Maps700px/Austrohungarianmonarchy7.jpg). Ultimate coolness. http://www.forums.skadi.net/images/icons/icon6.gif

Nordgau
Friday, December 26th, 2003, 04:21 AM
Man, Nordgau, you just don't know how good it makes me feel to see you express such sentiments! :-| I'm SICK! of the non-sense some others have expressed in opposition to such a sentiment.

What is normally adduced by people or Swiss themselves as evidence for the German-Swiss being no Germans is the fact of the Swiss having historically for the last centuries an own political tradition as confederal state which grew out from the German Reich. The German-Swiss, French-Swiss and Italian-Swiss form together an own "nation" in this concept. But this is of course the nation idea as state idea, and as a nation concept which ignores respectively is in a sphere independent from the ethnic, folkish membership of those who form such a nation together. The idea of an independence of the German-speaking Swiss as an own "nation" in contrary to Germany only works through the strong stressing of this special political state consciousness of the confederation idea in modern times and the treating of the ethnic-folkish component as irrelevant. (In fact the biggest proof came for the Swiss confederation in WW1, and Switzerland nearly broke in parts because the German Swiss took side for Germany and the French for France.)

The same goes for the argument that the Swiss had "an own language", "different from German". Swiss is a dialect, a landscape variant of German. As a German dialect it is German (though not the High German standard language), and it is as part of the Alemannic group the direct continuation of the Swabian dialects which are in usage in the south west parts of the German state. The dialect is indeed more cultivated and used in situations where some speakers in certain areas in Germany, who normally speak dialect in their immediate, private sphere, would rather go over to standard High German. That high cultivation of the dialect in Switzerland is a result of the last decades since the 19thirties as a part of the "spiritual defence of the country", and the dialect wasn't more cultivated in the time before than in Germany.
But this cultivation of the dialect and of Swiss specialness is of course the cultivation of the High-Alemmannic character of the country and the people, thus of their tribal identity, which is a regional sub-form of German ethnicity. Of course, the dialect is only spoken and not written by anybody, just as the different dialects in the regions of the Fed. Rep. of Germany are.

That idea of the German Swiss being just as different from the Germans and an own nation as the French or Spaniards are, goes together with the artificial concept of an "Austrian nation" and generally the self-satisfied idea of the German people (folk) being limited exactly within the borders of the recent Fed. Rep. of Germany.
It is necessary that one finds here to a more unaffected and natural view of the things, and to ascertain the German Swiss as a part of the German people in all ethnic respects, doesn't mean to ignore or deny their historical development as an own confederation and the special political forms they found for themselves.


You would give your vote to the Swedes!!! Like they need ANOTHER reason to be COCKY(i.e., arrogant)!!! lol j/k ;-) By your "thank you for the music" quote, do I perceive a man who knows ABBA music?! :-O LOL! ;-) I put Anni Frid Lyngstad FIRST AND FOREMOST!!! among ABBA and she's Sweden's 1/2 German+1/2 Norse songbird!!! So, my vote for the Norse is still justified in honor of her too! :-PPP lol ;-)

Yeah, from time to time I have "soft", "romantic" moods, am fed up of all that humming, stamping, hammering, raving Rammstein, welle: erdball, KMFDM, Depeche Mode, Front 242 electro-synthie sound and push in the good old ABBA Silberscheiben. (Okay, I've bought them around 1997, so they aren't so old for me in fact. http://www.smiliemania.de/smilie.php?smile_ID=296)

Nordgau
Friday, December 26th, 2003, 04:35 AM
I voted Austrians. Hitler in Lederhosen (http://www.skalman.nu/third-reich/bilder/hitler-lederhosen.gif) sitting in a Wiener Werkstätte (http://www.christies.com/promos/dec03/1311/overview.asp) chair watching a DVD of Terminator 2 (http://capsi.com/img/dvd/terminator2/2.jpg), Alpine milkmaids (http://www.rehsgalleries.com/catalogthumbs/julien_dupre_a3716_milkmaid_with_cows_sm all.jpg) skiing (http://www.ski-arlberg.com/arlberg-online/) in the background, while eating a chocolate (http://www.erniesdeli.com/ECDImages/Mannermignonwafers.gif) and complaining about the Austro-Hungarian Empire (http://www.porges.net/porges/Images/Maps/Maps700px/Austrohungarianmonarchy7.jpg). Ultimate coolness. http://www.forums.skadi.net/images/icons/icon6.gif

You forgot this one:

http://www.news.at/nw1/gen/slideshows/politik/inland/haider_irak/1.jpg?1036412268

Alledgedly Saddam sent a double to this meating... but there are rumors that Haider also just sent his doppelganger. http://www.smiliemania.de/smilie.php?smile_ID=292

NormanBlood
Friday, December 26th, 2003, 05:05 AM
"Coolest" Germanics? The Normans of course...yes there is a bit of a bia going on but to me they are hehe Followed by the Saxons, the Franks (I am surprised they were not mentioned on the list! The had a great influence!), the Norsemen and the Goths. I voted "Norwegians" though in the poll..in modern contexts I believe they deserve the vote.

friedrich braun
Friday, December 26th, 2003, 09:26 PM
Prussians for their historic militarism, love of order and discipline.

Awar
Friday, December 26th, 2003, 09:44 PM
Prussians for their historic militarism, love of order and discipline.

Dude, you have got to see Kubrick's film "Barry Lyndon" it has a terrific part about Prussians.

Odin Of Ossetia
Saturday, December 27th, 2003, 03:34 AM
Icelanders (even though my mother is Norwegian)!

They don't bother anyone. : )



No, not directly. But NATO admitted that Iceland was one of the countries that gave unspecified support for its aggression against Yugoslavia in 1999, and likely thereafter.

Odin Of Ossetia
Saturday, December 27th, 2003, 03:47 AM
"Coolest" Germanics? The Normans of course...yes there is a bit of a bia going on but to me they are hehe Followed by the Saxons, the Franks (I am surprised they were not mentioned on the list! The had a great influence!), the Norsemen and the Goths. I voted "Norwegians" though in the poll..in modern contexts I believe they deserve the vote.



Neither Saxons (Sakas) nor Goths (Scandinavian Ossets) were really Germanic; they were both of Iranian origin.

friedrich braun
Saturday, December 27th, 2003, 04:01 AM
Dude, you have got to see Kubrick's film "Barry Lyndon" it has a terrific part about Prussians.

I believe Kubrick was an American Jew married to a German woman.

friedrich braun
Saturday, December 27th, 2003, 04:16 AM
I voted for English, they have the best humor( ever),and out of Germanic peoples, they have: best designed cars, incredibly interesting history ( a little more interesting than Austrians ), best rock music, best language, best style ( when their style is bad, it's bad with style :-D ( see English football fans, only fools and horses series, cockney accent etc. ).

Also, as a plus, they are largely mixes with Kelts, who I adore :-)

The English never considered themselves Germanic, sorry to say.

(There are two world wars in the last century to prove it.)

friedrich braun
Saturday, December 27th, 2003, 04:39 AM
Are you serious about building up your own political party in Germany?

If so, can you give an ideological sketch of it?

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Hitler/auction/Scheliga/images/Adolf_Hitler120837_150.jpg




What is normally adduced by people or Swiss themselves as evidence for the German-Swiss being no Germans is the fact of the Swiss having historically for the last centuries an own political tradition as confederal state which grew out from the German Reich. The German-Swiss, French-Swiss and Italian-Swiss form together an own "nation" in this concept. But this is of course the nation idea as state idea, and as a nation concept which ignores respectively is in a sphere independent from the ethnic, folkish membership of those who form such a nation together. The idea of an independence of the German-speaking Swiss as an own "nation" in contrary to Germany only works through the strong stressing of this special political state consciousness of the confederation idea in modern times and the treating of the ethnic-folkish component as irrelevant. (In fact the biggest proof came for the Swiss confederation in WW1, and Switzerland nearly broke in parts because the German Swiss took side for Germany and the French for France.)

The same goes for the argument that the Swiss had "an own language", "different from German". Swiss is a dialect, a landscape variant of German. As a German dialect it is German (though not the High German standard language), and it is as part of the Alemannic group the direct continuation of the Swabian dialects which are in usage in the south west parts of the German state. The dialect is indeed more cultivated and used in situations where some speakers in certain areas in Germany, who normally speak dialect in their immediate, private sphere, would rather go over to standard High German. That high cultivation of the dialect in Switzerland is a result of the last decades since the 19thirties as a part of the "spiritual defence of the country", and the dialect wasn't more cultivated in the time before than in Germany.
But this cultivation of the dialect and of Swiss specialness is of course the cultivation of the High-Alemmannic character of the country and the people, thus of their tribal identity, which is a regional sub-form of German ethnicity. Of course, the dialect is only spoken and not written by anybody, just as the different dialects in the regions of the Fed. Rep. of Germany are.

That idea of the German Swiss being just as different from the Germans and an own nation as the French or Spaniards are, goes together with the artificial concept of an "Austrian nation" and generally the self-satisfied idea of the German people (folk) being limited exactly within the borders of the recent Fed. Rep. of Germany.
It is necessary that one finds here to a more unaffected and natural view of the things, and to ascertain the German Swiss as a part of the German people in all ethnic respects, doesn't mean to ignore or deny their historical development as an own confederation and the special political forms they found for themselves.



Yeah, from time to time I have "soft", "romantic" moods, am fed up of all that humming, stamping, hammering, raving Rammstein, welle: erdball, KMFDM, Depeche Mode, Front 242 electro-synthie sound and push in the good old ABBA Silberscheiben. (Okay, I've bought them around 1997, so they aren't so old for me in fact. http://www.smiliemania.de/smilie.php?smile_ID=296)

Awar
Saturday, December 27th, 2003, 06:09 AM
From what I know, Kubrick wasn't Jewish, but even if he was, that'd make absolutely no difference to anything. Especially not the film I was talking about.

In fact, Friedrich, you're the one who quoted Marx on several occasions.

About English being or not being Germanic..... I think that the origins and "meta-ethnicities" of people are not decided by daily politics. Also, please remind me what other Germanic nations were allies of Germany in WWI and WWII, in fact, wait, no need to remind me, I already know.

friedrich braun
Saturday, December 27th, 2003, 08:48 AM
From what I know, Kubrick wasn't Jewish, but even if he was, that'd make absolutely no difference to anything. Especially not the film I was talking about.

In fact, Friedrich, you're the one who quoted Marx on several occasions.

About English being or not being Germanic..... I think that the origins and "meta-ethnicities" of people are not decided by daily politics. Also, please remind me what other Germanic nations were allies of Germany in WWI and WWII, in fact, wait, no need to remind me, I already know.

Re-read my post, I didn't say that the English weren't Germanic, only that they didn't think themselves as such.

People never knew in Germany that the Englishmen always considered themselves as a part of the Christian latin world, but never as Teutons. The prominent men of the 3rd Reich made a tragic mistake. The British wanted to be Celts, Romans or even descendants of Israeli tribes, but under no circumstances Teutons. With respect to the refusal and devaluation of Germanness as a "teutonic" barbarianism they were no different from the Frenchmen or Italians, although England retained half of its Germanic language. http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=5081

Kubrick was a Jew, see http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/99/06/Kubrick150699.html

What does Marx have to do with anything? And I only quoted him once, long time ago:

"The Southern Slavs are a people without culture or history."

-Karl Marx

Finally, I don't need German history lessons from a Montenegrin-Serb. ("Do I look Nordish? Do I look Nordish?")

Loki
Saturday, December 27th, 2003, 09:40 AM
Even today, if you want to really annoy an Englishman, then remind him of the fact that the Anglo-Saxons came from Germany, and that he is actually a German ;-)

Frans_Jozef
Saturday, December 27th, 2003, 11:57 AM
The Flemish, of course, for that an army of foot-folk consisting of ordinary people with no real military experience on July,11th 1302 defeated a large and heavy armoured cavalary of French Knights for the sake of independance:

http://www.kun.nl/ahc/vg/html/vg000121.htm

http://www.liebaart.org/gulden_e.htm

galvez
Saturday, December 27th, 2003, 01:34 PM
I would have voted for the Swiss but I did not find them listed.

Odin Of Ossetia
Saturday, December 27th, 2003, 11:23 PM
[QUOTE=Frans_Jozef]The Flemish, of course, for that an army of foot-folk consisting of ordinary people with no real military experience on July,11th 1302 defeated a large and heavy armoured cavalary of French Knights for the sake of independance:

QUOTE]


For the sake of independence, the Flemish kind of sucked - Romans, Huns, Germans, Spaniards, Austrians, French, and Dutch (and any others???) all denied them independence.

Loki
Saturday, December 27th, 2003, 11:53 PM
For the sake of independence, the Flemish kind of sucked - Romans, Huns, Germans, Spaniards, Austrians, French, and Dutch (and any others???) all denied them independence.

Nonsense. The "Flemish" and Dutch are one and the same ethnicity, actually. The Dutch-Belgian border is a relatively modern thing. Read up on your history.

Frans_Jozef
Sunday, December 28th, 2003, 12:59 AM
[QUOTE=Frans_Jozef]The Flemish, of course, for that an army of foot-folk consisting of ordinary people with no real military experience on July,11th 1302 defeated a large and heavy armoured cavalary of French Knights for the sake of independance:

QUOTE]


For the sake of independence, the Flemish kind of sucked - Romans, Huns, Germans, Spaniards, Austrians, French, and Dutch (and any others???) all denied them independence.

yes, we were occupied by several empires, but we didn't suffer or mass immigration, albeit that when the Netherlands broke up, huge contigencies of both families of the Southern Netherlands moved because of their protestant belief up north.

Nordgau
Sunday, December 28th, 2003, 12:23 PM
Are you serious about building up your own political party in Germany?

If so, can you give an ideological sketch of it?

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Hitler/auction/Scheliga/images/Adolf_Hitler120837_150.jpg

I am, though it's not more than a plan in ideas, and I yet must become clear on certain things. Relating to the necessity of political action, I agree completely with Siegfried Aurelius's opinion here (http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=6447) that things come to their decision in the following years. I'm only not really sure if it makes more sense to join an already existing organization and then to try to transform and lead it towards the desired direction, or to raise a complete new organization. I would prefer the latter one, as one can form its character here from the beginnings completely after the image which oneself has got.
All right-wing political tries until now have failed or didn't or never made it over a shunted stadium of the beginning. The only party which had halfway respectable success in the last years in striking roots in the society, is the NPD, which however is in my eyes less too versatile in her whole character to break through.
What is not possible is that one appears in one's character and self-understanding as a direct heir of National Socialism. - But that also isn't really necessary, as National Socialism itself was a political-ideological crystallisation of traditions of thoughts and world-views which existed already before. One can represent e. g. the ideas of Volksgemeinschaft without regarding NS directly as basis, by relating to thinkers of the conservative revolution in the twenties and in the late Kaiserreich. Thus one will come here and there partly to foundaments which are at least similar to that of the NS, but not really go back directly to the Third Reich.
Of course it is not enough to refer only to "old" thinkers, but to find to a concept which takes gained spiritual (if one wants so: eternal) ideas from different times as well into consideration as one deals with the social, political and global questions ad developments which are under discussion and important today. Also one has to dissociate from a meaningless "nationalism" which exhausts in devout national calendar phrases from the 19th century, but hasn't got a clear, granitic world view behind. (The washed out, "liberal" middle class standard "patriotism" of today's "consevative" dwarfs like Helmut Kohl is nothing but the null-grade of the empty 19th century patriotism of satisfied bourgeois.)
What characterizes the basic ideas, without speaking of single political aims in detail, is the principle of the healthy and natural, almost organic-biological order of everything. Here, the single folkish and racialist, culturalist, social, political and economic demands find together. Principle must always be the living and surviving of the folk, and a certain political order in a state or economic prosperity are always to be judged under the aspect how far they make life possible for the people in longer terms.
The negative foil of that all is the whole chaos which we have today in society, spirit and culture, politics and society and generally the development in the western countries.
The party program should only contain of the basic principles and aims; it shouldn't have demands to everything which is discussed in the daily political business. This way it doesn't become outdated soon and has to be changed from the time to time, and one stays in demands to political details flexible enough without that the arguing over such little daily issues would lead to too big frictions.
A very important aspect is public enlightening, propaganda and appearance - the "style" of the party. One shouldn't estimate the meaning of flags, symbols, rallies and demonstrations too low, for the coming through of the idea that has got the highest value. It is the direct sense-perception and transformation into emotions of that what is otherwise on the paper accessible above all for the intellect. The more it is important that one finds here to forms which are absolute aesthetic on the one side and on the other side straightforward, penetrant and great enough that they reach to a public reception of the movement's intention as much as possible. Thanks God this ridiculous state resigned in finding to a real symbolism (it only is great in negative symbolism and state ideology such as "remembering" of "the [terrible] past", but that sort of official cultus is fortunately refused instinctively, though direct, active opposition is punished with "moral" stigmatation), so the conditions are given for establishing an own counter-, parallel world to that of the system, just as it will be the first task to strike roots among strata of ordinary people and to build up a parallel world to the system in society.
In politics it is necessary that one doesn't place oneself into a moral-ideological negative position where one play from the beginning nothing than a defensive part, where one has to justify oneself against the system which's supreme authority in all questions of the "moral"-political basic polarization of society one has accepted for oneself, and where one is crushed soon. This is the mistake which political newcomers make who are indeed somehow a vexation for the system because they deal with topics like immigration which are "hot", but who are so much captivated in the chains of traditional "conservatism" and then bow so much to the system that it's an easy game to break their backs. The rise and fall of that dude Schill in Hamburg is an exemplary model for that.
Onself must be always in an active, attacking position, and at last the system has to justify itself for what it does. There are more than enough topics and issues where the failure and the negative character of the system is apparent. Relating to multiculturalism, immigration, EU etc. one has to make direct single cases where the negative character of that all shows itself to topics, because that is where beyond rather abstract concepts the feeling of fairness of the people is awakened, as well as one has to reject the ideas as such, from which this reality originates, and to make clear that everything is not just single excess in an otherwise good society, but the cruel logic and consequence of the sloping postion of this whole society.
Unnecessary to say that the resistance of the system establishment will be total, and that one has to be flexible and intelligent enough in action, ideas and tactics to not be forbidden as party. Also unnecessary to say that good will is not enough and people must show from ability and character a certain level to take a leading position.
I'm callous enough to be well aware of the fact that it takes a bit more than a "swing of the youth" or whatever to cause earthquakes in politics and society. Idealism which becomes naive optimism will fail, but the excellent mixture is a visionary idealism which is connected with absolute realism in all respects of daily work. For successfull organisation work in a field like politics one has to be lead by positive and creative spirit, but also to be a ausgekochter Hund (I don't think that the literary translation "boiled dog" really fits :D).

Nordgau
Sunday, December 28th, 2003, 12:28 PM
update

friedrich braun
Sunday, December 28th, 2003, 09:24 PM
Some good ideas, but what you don't acknowledge is that no matter what, such a movement (based on healthy, racialist, folkish, and organic values in synch with the German racial character) will undoubtedly be compared by the anti-German puppet state, the system and its lackeys, to the past, i.e., NS Germany, etc.

There's no escaping that simple fact.

norda
Sunday, December 28th, 2003, 10:35 PM
The results are not striking. Voting for friendly Swedish pacifists is really one-track mind. (btw it would be interesting to know similar results 350 years ago ; )
Maybe it’s not very nice to vote for closest people but anyway I vote for full-blooded Prussians.

Laedifox
Monday, December 29th, 2003, 02:04 AM
I voted for Icelanders, because:

- they are directly descended from the ancient Vikings, and have remained racially unmixed, for the most part
- they can read the Sagas like yesterday's newspaper, since their language is very close to Old Norse
- they have one of the most unique cultures in all of Europe

Though, I must say, it was a close call with the Swedes, who kick ass at hockey and design.

Odin Of Ossetia
Saturday, January 3rd, 2004, 07:46 PM
Nonsense. The "Flemish" and Dutch are one and the same ethnicity, actually. The Dutch-Belgian border is a relatively modern thing. Read up on your history.



No, Flemish and Dutcht are two separate nationalities; they are just closely related to each other, like Poles are to Czechs and Slovaks, but they were always separate nevertheless. Even the border between the two is not all that recent.


You check up on history, because I already did.

Odin Of Ossetia
Saturday, January 3rd, 2004, 07:48 PM
yes, we were occupied by several empires, but we didn't suffer or mass immigration, albeit that when the Netherlands broke up, huge contigencies of both families of the Southern Netherlands moved because of their protestant belief up north.



Just what do you mean by "...we did not suffer"? I read that the Spanish and French troops in modern-day Belgium behaved quite brutally with regard to the local population.

Odin Of Ossetia
Saturday, January 3rd, 2004, 07:53 PM
I voted for Icelanders, because:

- they are directly descended from the ancient Vikings, and have remained racially unmixed, for the most part
- they can read the Sagas like yesterday's newspaper, since their language is very close to Old Norse
- they have one of the most unique cultures in all of Europe

Though, I must say, it was a close call with the Swedes, who kick ass at hockey and design.




With regard to their racial composition, I read that the Icelanders have quite heavy Celtic and Pictish admixture, what is surprising that a Celt like you is not apparently even aware of.



They also have Slavic admixture:



http://wolnapolska.boom.ru/index-Wyzdraw.html




Maybe their culture is so unique because it is so mixed?

Frans_Jozef
Saturday, January 3rd, 2004, 10:51 PM
Just what do you mean by "...we did not suffer"? I read that the Spanish and French troops in modern-day Belgium behaved quite brutally with regard to the local population.e ddin

Read or paraphrase my line correctly: we didn't have a mass immigration of foreign population settling down in the Southern Netherlands, the French and Spanish troops were garrison troops.

Even with the German occupation during WWII it was hard so see any German trooper in the street...

Kleinwildjaeger
Sunday, January 4th, 2004, 09:45 PM
I'd have to vote for the Swabians, the people of my Heimat. They are industrious, and because of their unique German dialect, have a good sense of who they are.

blut-ehre
Monday, January 5th, 2004, 07:53 AM
norwegians..

CyberNinja
Friday, January 16th, 2004, 04:23 AM
Norwegians.
From your avatar I can detect you are redhead,are you Norwaygian? Trønder?

Übersoldat
Friday, January 23rd, 2004, 10:36 AM
I object to the unorthodox systematization Awar made dividing only German folk on its regions and components but since its already made and accepted I voted for Austrians due to the strong historic ties of Austria and Croatia. However this vote should be understood as it is for all Germans.
http://rvl.100megs2.com/images/armelband/M5477.gif

If there was a multiple choice, I would also give my voice to Icelanders since Iceland was the first state in the world that recognized Croatian independence on December 19, 1991.

Sigurd Volsung
Thursday, January 5th, 2006, 08:27 PM
Has to be Anglo-Saxon ;)

Æthelweard
Thursday, January 5th, 2006, 10:01 PM
En-ger-land!!

Anglo Saxons.....especially the ones from the Wessex area :D

sceagacros
Thursday, January 5th, 2006, 11:03 PM
I voted Anglo-Saxon(English), I see the Swedes are winning at present -now that DID make me laugh!!!:D

SouthernBoy
Friday, January 6th, 2006, 12:49 AM
Anglo-Saxons. :D

Skildur
Friday, January 6th, 2006, 12:57 AM
Swedes are obviously the coolest. :D

RedJack
Friday, January 6th, 2006, 03:23 AM
Has to be Anglo-Saxon ;)

Of course! And we are now tied with the Swedes! :thumbup

Thruthheim
Sunday, August 20th, 2006, 05:30 PM
I voted Anglo Saxon(Although I can't see why they aren't just called "English" on the poll).

Otherwise I'd have voted Norway.

I much prefer Norway to England, but for the particular question of this poll, has to be us.

BritishKnight
Monday, August 21st, 2006, 08:09 AM
IMO the ANGLO-SAXONS are the coolest Germanics, above all the ones from the Cheshire area!:thumbup No offence, but it's an obvious fact that the English race has created, invented, explored and researched most things which made the Western World what it is today (yeh well apart from the mess that is Immigration and Multi-Culturalism-Racialism;) ). And besides the English undeniably did have the greatest Empire the World had ever seen!:D

Flag-Soil
Monday, August 21st, 2006, 11:04 AM
We're all cool because we come from Northern Europe.

Rædwald
Wednesday, September 6th, 2006, 03:30 PM
Anglo Saxons, by far.

I'm not trying sound superior (okay, so maybe I am, sue me), but I don't think any germanic group has provided more to the world than the AS have.

kharas
Wednesday, September 6th, 2006, 05:37 PM
Go on the military way, and their living legends, go on pruSSians.

Pervitinist
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 12:55 AM
Anglosaxons may be cool in the sense of their temperament being rather calm most of the time, but the coolest ones in the sense of real coolness were and still are most definitely the Austrians!

For a long time, Vienna was the capital of the German Reich and the Roman Empire under the House of Habsburg. An Austrian army under Prince Eugene defended the West against the Turkish/Muslim onslaught in the 17th century. Some of the greatest artists in world history (Walther von der Vogelweide, Mozart, ...) were Austrians. Adolf Hitler was an Austrian. Basically the 20th century was an Austrian century.

In my view Anglosaxons tend to be a bit overrated mostly due to their sheer number. But there are lots of fake Anglosaxons out there, especially in the US where the amount of assimilated (originally German etc.) Anglosaxons probably surpasses that of the original ones:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German-American

Theudiskaz
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 05:59 AM
Frisians, I find them and their language fascinating. They're like a throw-back to the Anglo-Saxons of old.:thumbup

Osmaegen
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 06:31 AM
Very good point on the Frisians. BTW, I thought the Prussians were a Baltic speaking folk that adopted German as their language. Is that right, or am I confused?

Todesritter
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 08:03 AM
Very good point on the Frisians. BTW, I thought the Prussians were a Baltic speaking folk that adopted German as their language. Is that right, or am I confused?

That is correct, partially.



There are two basic ways to interpret 'Prussians'; the ancient ethnic Baltic people, and the ethnic German people from the Middle Ages forward in history. Most references differentiate between the two by referring to the ethnic German Prussians simply as 'Prussians', and the ancient people as 'Old Prussians', or 'Baltic Prussians'.

This however is an oversimplification, and is often used by some Russians and Poles to justify their abuse, murder, and 'ethnic cleansing' of the Prussians including the demolition of monuments, artifacts, and structures such as centuries of family graves that could attest to the Prussian heritage of the land they took after 1945.

The justification using this over-simplification being, 'After all, the Prussians are simply usurpers or the descendants of land-thieves who took the land from its legitimate ethnic Baltic, and Slavic peoples and occupied the land.' Of course they further interpret that any Slavic people there were obviously ancient Poles, further legitimizing their claims, as evidence for their abuse and attempts to Polonize the bilingual, partially Germanized Kashubian people, whose tongue is actually a completely separate language from Polish, and who, like the Sorbs, were fine using German for day-to-day life outside the home and their Slavic Kashubian with the family. Since 1945, this people, who respected German, and had felt themselves good citizens of the German Reich and Kingdom of Prussia, have been severely punished for use of German, and even coerced into dropping use of their own ancient Kashubian, which the Poles and Russians taught in school was simply a corrupted form of modern Polish.

The reason I mention the plight of the Kashubians and the post 1945 abuses of both the Prussians and the other native folk of the Prussian area, is that these are directly material to the oversimplification I mentioned and your question over the real identity of the 'Prussians'. This is because, while some German ethnic purists might be offended, many of the 'Prussians' like the Slavic Kashubians I mentioned, are Germanized 'Old Prussians' (ancient Baltic blood, new High-German speech, or slightly older Low-German dialect). So, you could say while some Prussians were likely 'pure' (whatever that means) ethnic Germans by blood, many Prussians bloodlines are likely a mixture of 'Prussian' and 'Baltic Prussian', or simply 'Old Prussian' in all but language. The Old Prussian (Baltic) language became extinct in the early 18th century, while the German Prussian dialect I've heard spoken recently by some old-timers (I could not understand it very well).

Of course the sad irony in light of the politicized oversimplification I mention is that while some Poles and Russians may rationalize removing the Prussians from their soil as simply removing those who'd done the same to the original Old Prussian inhabitants, justifying their actions, in fact, most Prussians removed were at least marginally if not nearly completely purely descended from the Old Prussians. So they removed the descendents of the legitimate/aboriginal population in the name of said population?

Doesn't make much sense to me - but hey, I am a dumb American, and have no need to subvert fact and truth to justify the spoils of those who profited from the Yalta Conference, Potsdam Conference, and had those spoils confirmed by the "Treaty on the Final Settlement With Respect to Germany".


Of course if you go far enough back, there are some who say the Baltic Prussians, were in-turn ancient proto-Germanics, or Eastern Germanics who were Balticized during the cold period when the ancestors of the Lithuanians spread over lands the Gepids and Goths, and their kin had once occupied. So you could answer the question 'Are the Prussians Baltic, Germanic, or Slavic?' with 'Yes/No/Maybe', depending on which facts you choose to look at among what is known of history in this region, and how you choose to interpret those facts.

Americans and Brits and related people tend to be more familiar with the ethnic classifications conundrums of Great Britain, so I will pose you an analogy in the form of a question, 'Are the Welsh Germanic (English), or Celtic? … the Cornish Germanic (English), or Celtic? …the Manx Germanic (English), or Celtic (or Germanic/Norse)?' :D

Thusnelda
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 10:16 AM
Anglosaxons may be cool in the sense of their temperament being rather calm most of the time, but the coolest ones in the sense of real coolness were and still are most definitely the Austrians!

There are no Austrians, since Austrians descend from the Bavarian-tribe. Bavarians and Austrians (excluding Vorarlberg) are Baiuvaari; Bavarians.
The fact that they live in two different states for quite a time changes not the fact that they are of the same poeple. :)

Jäger
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 10:28 AM
There are no Austrians, since Austrians descend from the Bavarian-tribe. Bavarians and Austrians (excluding Vorarlberg) are Baiuvaari; Bavarians.
The fact that they live in two different states for quite a time changes not the fact that they are of the same poeple. :)
Exactly! tha same is with franconians who are NOT bavarian! They just happen to live in the same state :P :D


I'm not trying sound superior (okay, so maybe I am, sue me), but I don't think any germanic group has provided more to the world than the AS have.
Like McDonalds and Penthouse for example? I need to rival this claim because, I think, of course, we are ahead of the AS :fbox:

Of course combined it would be even unbeatable in world history :)

Pervitinist
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 10:44 AM
There are no Austrians, since Austrians descend from the Bavarian-tribe. Bavarians and Austrians (excluding Vorarlberg) are Baiuvaari; Bavarians.
The fact that they live in two different states for quite a time changes not the fact that they are of the same poeple. :)

Of course (being pred Bavarian myself:D ) I know that! - The very meaning of the name "Österreich"/"Ostarrîchi" is "Eastern Realm (of the Bavarians)".

But since "Austrians" are listed in the above chart I understood that Awar meant "people" in a more broader, political sense.

As a political entity Austrians are definitely something else than Bavarians since the middle ages (at least since 1246), cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria#Origin_and_history_of_the_name

And today, after the destruction of Greater Germany, Austria again is a separate state (which I think is quite unnecessary and unfortunate for "small" Germany when we look at all those highly gifted Austrians in history).

In short I think it does make sense to speak of Austrians as a Germanic "people" in a broader sense.

And btw, look at the list: Bavarians are also there!

Oiso servus mitanand!

Osmaegen
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 02:21 PM
Thanks Todesritter that was very informative. As for myself, the Balts are probably my second favorite IE people and I do take a view that they are proto-Germanics.

Damarus
Sunday, October 29th, 2006, 10:47 PM
I voted anglo-saxon.

der_letzte
Wednesday, January 17th, 2007, 09:07 PM
i voted other, because suebic (is this right?) schwaben halt, are the coolest! Why? I am one! :D

fareast
Saturday, February 17th, 2007, 06:45 AM
i don't know what's the meaning of "coolest",handsome or cruel?