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Väring
Friday, August 27th, 2004, 05:59 PM
What are the origins and present day evidence of the West Baltid race?

Loki
Friday, August 27th, 2004, 10:14 PM
What are the origins and present day evidence of the West Baltid race?
Is there such a thing?. If so, what does it look like?

SouthernBoy
Friday, August 27th, 2004, 10:21 PM
Maybe he is thinking of the Walloon which is said to be a Western Batlid approximation I believe. I know very little about them.

Väring
Saturday, August 28th, 2004, 05:21 PM
Is there such a thing?. If so, what does it look like?

Perhaps like good old Dolph. Anyway, he was classified West Baltid (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=72451).

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=76411&d=1093710075

william_russellsb
Wednesday, February 2nd, 2005, 08:05 PM
This is a copy of a message I was sent concerning the so-called West-Baltic race:

"The West-Baltic is not mentioned here for a simple reason, Coon has not written about the type. I try to explain what I think about this sub-race or proto-race, as I do not know what the right place is, maybe it can be both. We can discuss if it still exists or not, but it cannot just disappear. It either evolved or became a composite type. However, which race is not mixed?

West-Baltic/Aisto-Nordic/East Nordic/East-Nordid, do not mix with East-Baltics. We cannot be sure if they are brachycephalic because of Mongoloid (not Mongoloid proper, more like Uralics, which is an intermediate between Europid and Mongoloid, also the name of a language group) admixture or of the Alpinid race, but they can have Mongoloid traits, especially the Savolaxian type. Do we get an East-Baltic look if an Aisto-Nordic is mixed with an Alpinid? Is that person East-Baltic then, or must they have Mongoloid in them? That is not clear to me yet. I associate the East-Baltic skull with the Alpinid, but some can be more Nordic than others.

Aisto-Nordic: Mesocephalic, high vaulted and tall-statured and probably not very narrow faced (Lundman). Can have oberlidfaldte (slanting eyes), can be very blond. Great dimensions of cranial and facial proportions, broad face, thick skull bones, strong chin and fairly flat profile.

The racial history of Europe (Nordens Rashistoria): an outline (Lundman):
"We can perhaps consider the three groups as three subraces of the Nordid race - namely, the Faelish subrace, the Scando-Nordid subrace, and also the long- and high-skulled East-Nordid subrace. The East-Nordid should be regarded as a subrace of the Nordid race, since it resembled the other two subraces in so many anthropological traits. The region of origin of all three subraces evidently bordered on one another."

"This proto-Indo-European East-Nordid race has now almost disappeared. This is evidently a consequence of the forceful - one might say "explosive"- expansion of the Indo-European peoples. Some living high-skulled Nordid types in Poland, Russia, Finland, and the East Baltic region can be derived from the proto-Indo-European East-Nordids. Thus, not all of the living high-skulled peoples of this part of Europe can be regarded as mixtures of the Scando-Nordid (or East-Mediterranean) and East-Baltid (or Dinarid) races."
http://www.snpa.skadi.net/lundman-races2.htm (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snpa .skadi.net%2Flundman-races2.htm)

Summary

"The height-length index shows Europe divided into a hypsicephalic or high-skulled East and a chamaecephalic or lowskulled West. The high-skulled zone comprises most of Russia and Eastern Europe, the Balkans, Italy and most of Spain. The low-skulled zone includes the British Isles, Scandinavia, the Low Countries, Germany, France, northern Spain, and the Mediterranean Islands."
http://www.snpa.skadi.net/lundman-races3.htm (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snpa .skadi.net%2Flundman-races3.htm)

So eastern European groups are usually high vaulted (high headed/high skulled) and short headed (Breadth/Lenght Index), while western European ones are low-vaulted and long headed. Nevertheless, the Aisto-Nordic is meant to be high vaulted, but at the same time long headed, which means they are mesocephalic or dolichocephalic (I do not think many such individuals are left).

I wonder what a short head and low vault gives, an East Asian (Japanese, Koreans) Mongolid? Or do we have it in Caucasoids too, and if so, which sub-race(s)? I can only think of the Alpinids being short headed and low-skulled. Coon did not write in detail about eastern Europe and the Baltic lands, that does not mean those types do not exist. We need to read other European anthropologists.

I read some suggestions that the Trönder is a blend of Scaninavian Alpinids (Alpinized Tydals) and Aisto-Nordics. I think they evolved in Ukraine, and they overrun the Urals, Baltic and Dinaric Alps. But many more probably came with the Volksdeutschen from east. The typical culture elements of the Corded people are found in southern Russia, so that is probably the origin.

There are types that I cannot classify as anything besides West-Baltic, they cannot be Borreby, Brünn, East Alpinid, Hallstatt or Trønder. They are either West-Baltic or a type I do not know the name of. It may be a composite type nowadays, as not many people are living in isolated villages where almost all are of the same sub-race.

Isolated Nords in an otherwise non-Nordic area, like the North Caucasus and southern Russia can be of this type too. Maybe they are left from the groups that did not migrate west. Or they are of Russian or German ethnicity.

I think most are in Germany, Poland, Russia (Novgorod area), Belarus, Ukraine (I say they can be present there if we go by historical migrations, the majority are Dinarid and East-Baltic), the Baltic countries, coastal part of W Finland, Czech Rep., and parts of the Caucasus (most must be of the ethnic Russian ethnicity, misplaced people during the time of Tsarist Russia, so they came from more northern lands). The majority should be among Slavic, Baltic and Finnic people. However, race, culture and language are not necessarily the same thing".

Examples:
Michelle Pfeiffer (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kino web.de%2Ffilm2000%2FStoryOfUs%2Fpix%2Fso u5.jpg)

Finnish Woman

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=77801&d=1107374260

SouthernBoy
Thursday, February 3rd, 2005, 01:34 AM
I imagine I could fit into this type well.

Wiseman
Tuesday, February 8th, 2005, 07:41 PM
the Swedish-speaking Finns and Finnish-speaking Finns don't differ ethnically more than a Finn from another. Both Ethnically as well as culturally, they are Finnish. As someone said, linguistics doesn't mean much when speaking of Genetic background.