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NormanBlood
Sunday, August 22nd, 2004, 06:20 AM
I was just wondering how many of you on here who call yourselves Heathen actually liveout your beliefs in everyday life(no I don't mean dressing up in "battle gear" and whatnot;)). I know there are many "weekend Heathens" or online Heathens out there. To what extent do you go to in order to live your life as compatibly as possible with this particular spirituality? By this I mean diet, dress, daily activities, readings, living conditions/arrangements etc.

:hveđrungur:
Sunday, August 22nd, 2004, 07:09 AM
I call myself a "modern" heathen, I dont change the way I eat, dress or act to abide by something written in a book. Odinism is a religion that evolves with the times, I dont believe in holding myself back in the past or being someone I am not, the gods did call upon me and I dont think I should change the way I am now (I will make a post about this and tell my storry sometime soon on how I feel I was called upon by the gods if anyone wants to hear it:)) I have allways been a lover of nature and felt most at home while going for a walk in the woods or sitting on some rocks and enjoying how beautiful the trees reflections are off of the lake. I do try to follow and learn a lot from the storrys of my ancestors, both from their good deeds and mistakes. I will allso make a sacrifice to the gods here and there, one example being when I am out with friends drinking, I will allways open my first beer and pour it into the earth for thor, along with my last beer becuase thor is the god who called upon me (again, I will make a post about this sometime soon) and I feel the closest connection with him becuase he is the god of common man and I would like to think the working class man which is what I am (yes im one of the big strong dumb guys who has to use his muscle to make his money :rofl: ) Thor is the protector of midgard and I will allways pay homage to him. I think as long as one believes in the gods, pays respect to them and does not do things to dishonour them they cannot be called a "fake" heathen/odinist/wotanist/odalist becuase who are we to judge who is and isnt a "true" heathen? Only the gods can make that decision unless you are of non germanic blood, then you can just fuck off as far as I am concered because our religion is one that teaches folkish views not this multi culti heathens against hate bullshit, odinism is for germanic europeans and no one else!!!! :mad:

Cheers on the thread NormanBlood :beer-smil

Oskorei
Sunday, August 22nd, 2004, 11:04 AM
Good question. I think the two central parts of my religion is being honorable (being true to my word and loyal to my friends and so on) and being loyal to my Folk and my Blood (not mating with foreigners, being helpful to my Folkmembers, explaining the truth of Folk and Race to those who are willing to listen and so on).

I dont have any particular diet, though I try to eat a lot of fruit (Salubrious living ;) ;)
I have long hair and occasionally wear a Wolfscross, but I dont look heathen at all.
I try to read up on our history, and to be in nature more. But I dont succeed very well.

Then again many Heathens wouldnt call me a Heathen at all, since my faith is a personal mix of Asatru, Hinduism, Cosmotheism and Satanism, with strong overtures of Racialism and Anarchism. I consider Odin my personal God, but IMO He has many names.

Vigrid
Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 01:14 PM
I will call me modern heathen too, i don´t live in the forest, i don´t hunt. I don´t dress me on ridiculous clothes, and fight with sword and axe ;) I have heathen attitude toward women... I am not member of the Christian Church and i don`t belief Christian values... Heathendom is right for me, me and my woman...

I hope you understand me, my english is not so well.

NormanBlood
Tuesday, August 24th, 2004, 05:33 AM
I think as long as one believes in the gods, pays respect to them and does not do things to dishonour them they cannot be called a "fake" heathen/odinist/wotanist/odalist becuase who are we to judge who is and isnt a "true" heathen?

Quick answer to this: there is no such thing as a "fake" or "untrue Heathen", this simply being because people who dress up like a 200 CE tribesman, believe the gods are "those big dudes in the sky" among other stupid things that require no reflection in our day and age are simply NOT Heathens in the slightest bit. Lastly, Heathenism SHOULDN'T be a person's religion solely for the purpose of "rebelling against christianity". Unfortuantely a lot of people don't see it that way.


I dont change the way I eat, dress or act to abide by something written in a book.

I assume by "a book" you are referring to the Eddas. They do not tell you how to eat, however I think any Heathen ("modern" or not) must have a basic understanding of balance. The balance between mind and body. Both mind and body must be fit and healthy in order to be completely in harmony with the Earth in itself. The modern world, like it or not, is in complete confusion, is completely out of whack. A Heathen eating McDonald's, frozen foods, genetically modified foods, dressing in clothing which supports massproduction and behaviour which is far closer to that of degenerate negroes than those of our ancestors is not a Heathen and is no better than a New Age Wiccan.

So yes, the religon of our Teutonic ancestors has evolved over time to fit with the times in which it finds itself. But this does not involve acting like everybody else. The reason a person decides to follow the spirituality of their ancestors because they are not LIKE everybody else. Because they have understood that our current modern way of living is not the CORRECT way to live. Correct meaning the way of living that is compatible with our folkish spirit. No I do not walk around in bearskin, thin leather boots or anything of the sort. I wear good durable clothing mostly from non mainstream stores that are mainly hiking/outdoors oriented. The exeption of this being Levi's for jeans and occasionally Roots for good warm sweatshirts. I eat no genetically modified foods and rarely any massproduced foods. I do not spend my days in front of the television but reading, studying, working or doing other activites taht will further help me to understand the lives of my ancestors. To me the AEsir are not "out there" but within me, within my blood, my soul, my mind and I have the full potential to be truly "akin" to their image if I live up to it and work hard. Like Oskorei, I hold honour and loyalty very highly as well as pride and respectability. This is how I believe my ancestors would have acted were they in my position today. This is what I believe a true "modern Heathen" is, which is why I consider myself to be one. I do not go out and try to completely emulate my ancestors in lifestyle to the very last detail. I am in the future. Yet nor do I go out and follow the degenerate lifestyle of the common modern man who has lost all touch with his ancestors and his soul. Allinall, not chaning your dress, eating habits and even not taking moral lessons in correspondance to the adoption of the spirituality of the Ancient Teutonic folk is nearly impossible in this situation. You'd have to have done those things to understand the spirituality, do you not agree?

Perhaps I misunderstood you and what you said, this was not in any way meant to insult anyone. I just found some of the things you said a little odd and seemingly uncompatible with the Heathen worldview. Again it could be a complete misunderstanding ;)

HOpe that made sense, am a little tired and tend to ramble on.

:hveđrungur:
Friday, August 27th, 2004, 02:40 PM
I assume by "a book" you are referring to the Eddas. They do not tell you how to eat, however I think any Heathen ("modern" or not) must have a basic understanding of balance. The balance between mind and body. Both mind and body must be fit and healthy in order to be completely in harmony with the Earth in itself. The modern world, like it or not, is in complete confusion, is completely out of whack. A Heathen eating McDonald's, frozen foods, genetically modified foods, dressing in clothing which supports massproduction and behaviour which is far closer to that of degenerate negroes than those of our ancestors is not a Heathen and is no better than a New Age Wiccan.

You kind of misunderstood me. But I agree with you on the McDonnalds crap, I hunt and me and my mom have a garden in our yard, we grow a lot of our vegetebals and I eat everything I hunt and kill. I have a few days off of work this weekend and I was thinking about going out and looking for some deer actually.


So yes, the religon of our Teutonic ancestors has evolved over time to fit with the times in which it finds itself. But this does not involve acting like everybody else. The reason a person decides to follow the spirituality of their ancestors because they are not LIKE everybody else. Because they have understood that our current modern way of living is not the CORRECT way to live. Correct meaning the way of living that is compatible with our folkish spirit. No I do not walk around in bearskin, thin leather boots or anything of the sort. I wear good durable clothing mostly from non mainstream stores that are mainly hiking/outdoors oriented. The exeption of this being Levi's for jeans and occasionally Roots for good warm sweatshirts. I eat no genetically modified foods and rarely any massproduced foods. I do not spend my days in front of the television but reading, studying, working or doing other activites taht will further help me to understand the lives of my ancestors. To me the AEsir are not "out there" but within me, within my blood, my soul, my mind and I have the full potential to be truly "akin" to their image if I live up to it and work hard. Like Oskorei, I hold honour and loyalty very highly as well as pride and respectability. This is how I believe my ancestors would have acted were they in my position today. This is what I believe a true "modern Heathen" is, which is why I consider myself to be one. I do not go out and try to completely emulate my ancestors in lifestyle to the very last detail. I am in the future. Yet nor do I go out and follow the degenerate lifestyle of the common modern man who has lost all touch with his ancestors and his soul. Allinall, not chaning your dress, eating habits and even not taking moral lessons in correspondance to the adoption of the spirituality of the Ancient Teutonic folk is nearly impossible in this situation. You'd have to have done those things to understand the spirituality, do you not agree?

Perhaps I misunderstood you and what you said, this was not in any way meant to insult anyone. I just found some of the things you said a little odd and seemingly uncompatible with the Heathen worldview. Again it could be a complete misunderstanding ;)

Hope that made sense, am a little tired and tend to ramble on.

When I say I am a modern heathen I meant I take the teachings of the eddas and learn from them and use them to become a better person. There are some teachings that just cant be taken and used exactally how they were hundereds of years ago. I live my life as a modern man compared to how my ancestors lived, that is what I meant. I agree with everything you said in your post because that is how I am, I barely ever watch tv unless its a movie I own or have rented to watch. I spend a lot of my non working time reading, writing, listening to music, gardening, hunting and trying to strengthen my connection with our gods. I dont walk around in nike shoes and some 90$ jeans and call myself a heathen. I can understand where you might have misunderstood what I was saying because I wasnt too clear on my definition of a "modern heathen" then again I made my original post in this thread a little while before going to sleep if I remember correctly. Anyways, its time to read the paper, have some coffee and get ready for work yet again. :coffee:

GreenHeart
Saturday, August 28th, 2004, 11:08 PM
I don't do a lot of things some race traitoring new agey "heathens" do like put up a shrine in my living room or anything stupid like that... and I don't buy any stupid jewish mass produced clothes. (Actually, I pick my clothes for their uniqueness.)

Mostly I just follow the basic moral principles of asatru but those are within my blood anyway and I always have. I stay true to my people and blood, and bring forth new aryan life. I only listen to good germanic music - NS black metal, also germanic classical music. I read and learn and get exercise and fresh air (as much as possible where I live right now) and all around try to better myself every chance I get. Become smarter, better and stronger- HAIL the Übermensch!

I live in an apartment where I can't grow my own food, but it's my goal someday to have my own small farm. I wear my Thor's hammer to show everyone my religion. I do what I can under the circumstances.

That said, I would reenact the vikings if I had the resources. If that makes me a fake or something in somebody's mind- that's fine with me. I don't really care what anyone thinks. I just have a very strong interest in the past, and would like to get a feel for the way my ancestors lived. I think it brings new perspectives to things you read in the mythos and history.


I think any Heathen ("modern" or not) must have a basic understanding of balance. The balance between mind and body. Both mind and body must be fit and healthy in order to be completely in harmony with the Earth in itself.

Healthy body, healthy mind!

Rachel
Monday, August 30th, 2004, 07:14 AM
I respect Heathenry but would never put a god or gods above myself.

Oskorei
Monday, August 30th, 2004, 09:31 AM
I respect Heathenry but would never put a god or gods above myself.

That is also one of the main differences between Northern Heathenry and Christianity/Judaism/Islam. The Heathens didnt pray sitting on their knees or touching the ground with their foreheads, they were standing while they were praying. Also they viewed their Gods as friends and helpers, not as tyrants.

Most modern Heathens dont believe in the factual existence of the Gods either, but more in Jungian and genetic notions of "the Gods live in the Blood", ie. that the gods are Archetypes in yourself, inherited from your ancestors. It also seems that the late, more esoteric, Heathens believed in similar things, the gudlausir menn comes to mind here.

NordHecate
Friday, September 10th, 2004, 05:18 AM
As another poster stated, it is not rebelling against christianity. You know..guilt, sin, self denial..ad nasium. If that were so, we would be nothing more than inverse christians.

I discard what I believe to be not of my heathen faith. It is the ancestral religion of which my people of Northern Europe hail.

Asatru is not an Earth-based religion. It is a reconstructionist religion/evolving tradition. This means that Asatruar, when deciding any matter of faith, look to records such as the Eddas, the Sagas, and folk traditions of Scandanavian countries. Any new idea is compared to such sources, and if it does not match them it is discarded.

Synthetic drugs
Processed Foods
Smoking
Drug Abuse
Criminal Activity
...et al

It is my personal faith to which I believe is true. With my kindred, I am allowing myself to learn and understand that for which I am. Courage, truth/honesty, honour, loyalty/fidelity, discipline, hospitality, industriousness, self-reliance and perseverance.


In a nutshell, I believe "Moving on up the ladder", traditional ethics in the 21st century’ hit the nail on the head. (IMO) See below.

There are two very clearly defined paths within an individual’s and group’s faith; whether it be derived from, or a continuance of, a traditional source. If their faith and religious practices are deeply rooted not only within the folklore and cultural customs of their land and home, but also within personal traditions and family heritage, then how much should taken from the annals of culture and how much should be personal gnosis?

This balance is, at times, a precarious one. If a religion is based on traditional sources and practices which are detailed enough to give a comprehensive understanding of moralities and practices, then how far can personal influences be incorporated before the original structure is warped and the meaning, at best, tainted, and at worst, lost? Obviously we weren’t given an instruction book on ritual practices and what we do know is gleamed from age old writings which may have been written down by untrustworthy sources or by individuals with personal agendas which altered the details significantly. Within a historical based religion, are new and individual revelations allowed to be accepted part of common beliefs and practices? Is it acceptable for reconstructionist religions to grow, develop and envelop new ideas and adaptations or does this bring them into the "neo" group that so many adherents seem to be totally repulsed by?

To answer some of these questions we must look closely at how the facts have been presented to us. Various historical texts (Snorri Sturluson’s ‘Prose Edda’, for example) give us what are today, the closest, or most informed links to the beliefs and customs of long dead peoples and cultures. From gathering all the obtainable pieces of texts and accounts of these early inhabitants, we can hope to put together, at best, a disjointed picture of their society and beliefs.

But surely this cannot be enough to establish a faith system upon and ultimately a common religion? This is where mutual exchange of experiences and insights by "like-minded individuals" can begin to enrich the tapestry of beliefs. I’ve seen rituals taken from a reliable historical text and developed into a working practice for modern day rites. This in turn was passed on to other individuals and groups to be tried and improved upon, or utterly rejected as unreliable if seen fit. During the period from which we draw our inspiration mass media wasn’t a feature of everyday life. Deities were given different names in different areas, had different aptitudes and even, in one case, a different gender was recorded by early historians!

Much like today, when rituals grew in isolation they were very distinct ways of expressing a common theme. These in time may have been opened to a wider audience by travel and exchange or may have lived out their existence in isolation and ended without being recorded. So today, as we are rebuilding our ancestor’s beliefs and moralities it is only to be expected that a certain amount of personal interjection will be needed, and even expected, to retain a faith which is relevant and complimentary of modern living. We don’t live in wattle and daub houses anymore and we no longer have a high king. We are born of a very distinct culture and are upholding its values and beliefs as are ancestors did before us. But are we rediscovering it or are the gods revealing it to us, piece by intricate piece?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the way, hope everyone has a wonderful Haustblot. :beer-smil

NormanBlood
Tuesday, September 14th, 2004, 02:41 PM
I can understand where you might have misunderstood what I was saying because I wasnt too clear on my definition of a "modern heathen" then again I made my original post in this thread a little while before going to sleep if I remember correctly.

Ah, ok. Now I know I missunderstood;) Two posts written by two tired minds is destined for misinterpretation:P


If a religion is based on traditional sources and practices which are detailed enough to give a comprehensive understanding of moralities and practices, then how far can personal influences be incorporated before the original structure is warped and the meaning, at best, tainted, and at worst, lost? Obviously we weren’t given an instruction book on ritual practices and what we do know is gleamed from age old writings which may have been written down by untrustworthy sources or by individuals with personal agendas which altered the details significantly.QUOTE]

Well it is obvious that the sources we have to work with today are all "tainted" by Christian as well as Latin influence brought into the Northern regions in the early middle ages. However these influences are usually easy to pick out and it can be at times easy enough to "read through the lines". In fact there are many books written by very good and prominent professors about this. The Eddas and Sagas obviously were later altered (in some cases numerous times) by Christian and "latinicised" scholars, but like I said we can in many cases see through this.

[QUOTE]Within a historical based religion, are new and individual revelations allowed to be accepted part of common beliefs and practices? Is it acceptable for reconstructionist religions to grow, develop and envelop new ideas and adaptations or does this bring them into the "neo" group that so many adherents seem to be totally repulsed by?

It is acceptable for such spiritualities as Odinism to develop and evolve in our times. We live in a different world. HOWEVER, many so called "Heathens" take this to an extreme today. Heathenism, for those with the true idea of it, today cannot be practiced as it was 1000 years ago or prior to the Viking Age we should say. We face many problems which our ancestors did not face. Heathens CANNOT afford to just "read the texts and follow the religion word for word" because there is a lot of hidden meaning to it. If there is to be any "evolving and developing" it should be based on the developpement of many misinterpreted ideas in these texts and bringing their true meaning to light. The goal of the "modern Heathen" should be to first of all go back to the ancestral way of thinking but in a modern context, living as an ancestor untainted by christian influence would. However its necessary to define this "modern" and how far one is going in this. Perhaps you could explain further your idea of "growing and developing".


From gathering all the obtainable pieces of texts and accounts of these early inhabitants, we can hope to put together, at best, a disjointed picture of their society and beliefs.

As long as the developement (which I would assume would be in the place of missing information) has a result that is a PLAUSIBLE interpretation of how this tradition may have truly been practiced. Many have a tendancy of shoving in their own beliefs instead of researching text, archeological finds etc. for the answers. We will never know the exact answer to all our questions but we can have a "resurrection" based on facts with our knowledge of the ancestral spirituality to fill in the blanks. Of course there are some individuals who should not be relied upon for this task.


Much like today, when rituals grew in isolation they were very distinct ways of expressing a common theme.


I’ve seen rituals taken from a reliable historical text and developed into a working practice for modern day rites. This in turn was passed on to other individuals and groups to be tried and improved upon, or utterly rejected as unreliable if seen fit

As I think you mentioned earlier, mass media was not a factor in the time of our ancestors. What you say is "much like today" really is not. Many supposed "Heathens" of today would scream until they were blue in the face about how their idea on ritual, faith etc. are correct when in reality they are merely manifestations\interpretations created in the minds of those who have yet to rid themselves truly of modern day negative influence. I can name a few authors who do this. So it would be wrong to compare certain ideas of certain modern North American "Kindreds" to those of the isolated communities of pre-christian Northern Europe.

jcs
Monday, October 18th, 2004, 11:56 PM
I am a practicing heathen. I hunt and fish, eat only organically grown foods, and try to shape my diet around that used by my ancestors. As we all know, our race evolved to be as it is partially because of the environment, diet being large part of environment. I thus think that all people, especially heathens/odinists/etc., should attempt to emulate the nutritional and dietary practices of their forefathers.
I also practice those rituals that I percieve as being pertainent to myself today. I read the Eddas and other related works and live by the wisdom imparted therein, though with a more modern application.

Loki
Monday, October 18th, 2004, 11:58 PM
I am a practicing heathen. I hunt and fish, eat only organically grown foods, and try to shape my diet around that used by my ancestors. As we all know, our race evolved to be as it is partially because of the environment, diet being large part of environment. I thus think that all people, especially heathens/odinists/etc., should attempt to emulate the nutritional and dietary practices of their forefathers.
I also practice those rituals that I percieve as being pertainent to myself today. I read the Eddas and other related works and live by the wisdom imparted therein, though with a more modern application.
That is great! I like hearing this. :beer-smil

Perun
Tuesday, October 19th, 2004, 07:10 PM
That is also one of the main differences between Northern Heathenry and Christianity/Judaism/Islam. The Heathens didnt pray sitting on their knees or touching the ground with their foreheads, they were standing while they were praying.

Ok.....one can stand while praying in the Christian faith. In fact thats whats often encouraged in the Eastern churches, to stand while praying before an icon. But one can kneel or bow while praying; its almost rather a choice of personal preference.



Also they viewed their Gods as friends and helpers, not as tyrants.

Thats also the view held in Christianity. The notion that God is somehow a tyrant didnt enter Christianity untill St. Augustine and Origen, and that ironically was a result of their influences by Greeco-Roman paganism.

Perun
Tuesday, October 19th, 2004, 07:15 PM
Lastly, Heathenism SHOULDN'T be a person's religion solely for the purpose of "rebelling against christianity". Unfortuantely a lot of people don't see it that way.

Not only do they see their heathenism purely as a way of "rebelling against Christianity", they pretty much make trashing Christianity the major element of their heathenism. Especially lot of the talk about how Christianity must be destroyed and/or churches need to be blown up.

This is very much a major weakness in the heathen movement that I commonly see.

Oskorei
Wednesday, October 20th, 2004, 06:41 PM
Ok.....one can stand while praying in the Christian faith. In fact thats whats often encouraged in the Eastern churches, to stand while praying before an icon. But one can kneel or bow while praying; its almost rather a choice of personal preference.



Thats also the view held in Christianity. The notion that God is somehow a tyrant didnt enter Christianity untill St. Augustine and Origen, and that ironically was a result of their influences by Greeco-Roman paganism.

Good points. There are several branches of Christianity, and the version I have come to know and view as unhealthy is the Swedish Protestant.

I am aware of the more "triumphant", and also mystical, Christ-figure of Orthodox Christianity, but that is not my tradition.

Perun
Thursday, October 21st, 2004, 03:44 AM
Good points. There are several branches of Christianity, and the version I have come to know and view as unhealthy is the Swedish Protestant.

Well Protestantism is pretty fucked up and much of Christianity's downturn in the West is largely because of the Americanization of the continent, its culture, and sadly its religion as well.

Wheras in the east, the Church had to endure the Communist tyranny and so kept many of the traditional elements that made Christianity what it is. It was also far more folkish in nature; I just read about an extreme Uniate movement that originated in Ukraine during the 50's. According to its viewpoints, the Virgin Mary appeared in an appariation in the Carpathian mountains: She urged the Ukrainian people to stay true to their Christian faith and their heritage and stand up against the Communist tyranny. If Ukraine did that, within time she would gain her freedom from the Communists. Of course the KGB brutally repressed this movement, and in large part because of its staunch nationalist beliefs.

I personally believe that Christianity will make a comeback in Europe(it already has in the former Soviet bloc in many ways); in fact it may take the form(and I certainly hope it will) of a creative rediscovery of the "folk Christianity" that was common among Europeans during the early Medieval period as Peter Brown describes in his book The Rise of Western Christendom: Triumph and Diversity AD 200-1000. Timothy Joyce certainly shares this view, saying that the Church of today has its closest parallel of the church of the 5th century.

As Joyce and others comment, the recent craze of many for the heritage of Celtic Christianity(a geniune Christianity built on folkish principles) is one sign of this possible path. Although it just has to be reclaimed from the New Agers. But as Brown notes, the example of Celtic Christianity was not the exception but rather the norm in much of European Christendom untill around the time of Charlamenge. Europe was dotted with all sorts of "Micro-Christendoms" that merged Church doctrine with local traditions(it should be mentioned however, this has always been a staple of Christian practice, even the Apostles decided this was the way that Christianity should be; and Adrian Hastings explains this to some length in his on nationalism). So yes this very much the form of Christianity I'd like to see return to Europe(and is at least returning in the East). Thankfully the Eastern churches have always upheld this ideal and hopefully the Western churches will rediscover it.

Before FB or others jumps on me for saying this, it should be noted that Brown details of how in many cases(especially among the Germanic peoples) of how Christians and pagans got along quite well. Christians would bless pagan festivels and vice versa. In some churches it was not uncommon to see statues of pagan deities standing next to those of Christ and Mary. Even among the Vikings it was not uncommon for many to pay respects to both Christ and Thor. So no, paganism and Christianity need not be at each other throats.



I am aware of the more "triumphant", and also mystical, Christ-figure of Orthodox Christianity, but that is not my tradition.Well it does depend on what you consider your tradition. But I wont get into that here.

MenschNaturTechnik
Friday, April 1st, 2005, 12:38 AM
http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/2005/Prozak021705Lifestyles.htm