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View Full Version : Good Examples of Baltids / West-Baltids



Glenlivet
Friday, September 24th, 2004, 04:05 PM
Member of Estonian Folk Music Group

CORBIS

Date Photographed:
1975

Location Information:
Tallinn, USSR

Arkona
Friday, September 24th, 2004, 07:03 PM
West-Baltids - the coastal population of Estonia and Latvia (and maybe Finland) is Brunnoid.

Besides other features they have marked brow-ridges.

The woman doesn't have them. She's Nordic.

Glenlivet
Friday, September 24th, 2004, 07:11 PM
I think that she is Nordid and that West-Baltid is one of the varieties of Nordid.

Marked brow-ridges you say, it sounds like Andrejs Prohorenkovs. What do you think?



West-Baltids - the coastal population of Estonia and Latvia (and maybe Finland) is Brunnoid.

Besides other features they have marked brow-ridges.

The woman doesn't have them. She's Nordic.

Glenlivet
Friday, September 24th, 2004, 07:16 PM
Otherwise, I had West-Baltid as a Tröndelag-like type, basically the same as Coon's plate 32, FIG. 3 in his The Races of Europe, a type that's less delicate of facial features, and broader-headed than the classical Iron Age Nordic.

I think that Latvian football player Mihails Miholaps fit that description rather well.

Glenlivet
Friday, September 24th, 2004, 07:37 PM
Lithuanian actress Ingeborga Dapkunaite.

Glenlivet
Friday, September 24th, 2004, 07:41 PM
The speaker of the Lithuanian parliament Arturas Paulauskas.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20040308/capt.sge.qzj87.080304163035.photo00.defa ult-282x384.jpg

Arkona
Friday, September 24th, 2004, 07:48 PM
I think that she is Nordid

Good for you.



and that West-Baltid is one of the varieties of Nordid.

Suggestion that population of coastal Estonia and Latvia is Nordic racially was rejected by anthropologists.

They're related to Scandinavian Bruenns.



Marked brow-ridges you say, it sounds like Andrejs Prohorenkovs. What do you think?

He's not a Balt. He's either a Belarussian or Russian.

He's amore robust version of the Ilmen-Dniepr type:

http://img22.exs.cx/img22/6245/ilmen-dniepr1.gif

Glenlivet
Friday, September 24th, 2004, 07:50 PM
Former Lithuanian president Rolandas Paksas. There's a resemblance with Arturas Paulauskas.

http://estaticos.elmundo.es/elmundo/imagenes/2003/12/04/1070529010_0.jpg
http://www.night.lt/~eac/nuotraukos/10378_paksas-big.jpg

Arkona
Friday, September 24th, 2004, 07:52 PM
http://img22.exs.cx/img22/8367/anthropmap.jpg

Zone number 9 is West-Baltic, but the map is not very precise. More detailed maps show that the West-Baltic zone is a bit lesser.

West-Balts are remnants of the original pre-Finnic Baltic population.

Glenlivet
Friday, September 24th, 2004, 07:56 PM
Gaston Backman who studied the Latvian people when he was working in the university of Riga wrote that Latvians from the 10th till 12th centuries were much longer-headed and that they were originally a Nordid people that through time became somewhat "Eastern Europeanised".




Suggestion that population of coastal Estonia and Latvia is Nordic racially was rejected by anthropologists.

Arkona
Friday, September 24th, 2004, 07:56 PM
Former Lithuanian president Rolandas Paksas. There's a resemblance with Arturas Paulauskas.

Lithuanians are not West-Baltic.

Rolandas can pass for a WB, but it looks like his FI is a higher.

Arkona
Friday, September 24th, 2004, 07:59 PM
Gaston Backman who studied the Latvian people when he was working in the university of Riga wrote that Latvians from the 10th till 12th centuries were much longer-headed and that they were originally a Nordid people that through time became somewhat "Eastern Europeanised".

Sounds BS to me.

Glenlivet
Friday, September 24th, 2004, 08:13 PM
I see, but CS Coon and B Lundman also wrote that they were once much more dolichocephalic and Nordid. Can it not be that they have gradually changed form?

"Unlike the Finns, however, the Letts seem once to have been longer-headed; early skeletal material which may definitely be ascribed to their ancestors, and which dates from 800 to 1200 A.D., is dolichocephalic, with a mean cranial index of 74.1 for a series of eleven male crania,109 and of 74.4 for the same, with twelve female skulls added. These skulls are of moderate vault height, quite short and moderately broad faced, with mesorrhine to chamaerrhine noses, and low orbits. On the whole they represent a variety of Nordic in which a short-faced, loworbitted element is especially prominent. The change in head form of the Letts,110 less radical than that found in many parts of central and eastern Europe, may almost certainly be ascribed here to a general absorption of round-headed racial elements, of which several have been historically traced."

http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/chapter-IX12.htm

I didn't either think that Lithuanians are particularly West-Baltid. I just found those. What do you think is the predominant type among Lithuanians?


Sounds BS to me.

Arkona
Friday, September 24th, 2004, 08:33 PM
I see, but CS Coon and B Lundman also wrote that they were once much more dolichocephalic and Nordid. Can it not be that they have gradually changed form??

Yes, it was gradual brachicephalization, de-brachicephalization and again brachicephalization. But facial breadths kept remaining the same.


"Unlike the Finns, however, the Letts seem once to have been longer-headed;

Untrue. Finns used to be dolichocephalic too.


I didn't either think that Lithuanians are particularly West-Baltid. I just found those. What do you think is the predominant type among Lithuanians

I'm not an expert on Lithuanians. They're (partially) reduced Brunnoids, less gracile than Belorussians.

SouthernBoy
Saturday, September 25th, 2004, 02:36 AM
I was unaware of Brunnids anywhere past the Baltic Sea. What could be described as the full range of the Brunnid prior to the Neolithic migrations, and excluding the predominantly Borreby Danish Isles?

Glenlivet
Saturday, September 25th, 2004, 07:49 PM
Brünn or Brno is an archaeological site in modern Czech Rep. Coon's use of the name is probably unsuitable and among many renowned physical anthropologists unsuitable. I have not seen any other anthropologists who used it as such, and most refer to the skull as high-skulled and Cro-Magnon as low-skulled. Both were dolichocephalic.

The Danish islands are not predominantly Borreby (and the Anholt variety). Lundman wrote that here's a weak strain in the Danish Islands, and partly in the Swedish province of Skåne (which was also Danish for a long time), of southeastern types, a strain of the Bell Beaker, who came originally from the Mediterranean and probably the Near East. Borreby didn't yield an independent race, but a local mixed population, in part very coarse, the Borreby type. That is how the term is used in most works by Scandinavian anthropologists.



I was unaware of Brunnids anywhere past the Baltic Sea. What could be described as the full range of the Brunnid prior to the Neolithic migrations, and excluding the predominantly Borreby Danish Isles?

Northern Paladin
Sunday, September 26th, 2004, 01:35 AM
These skulls are of moderate vault height, quite short and moderately broad faced, with mesorrhine to chamaerrhine noses, and low orbits. On the whole they represent a variety of Nordic in which a short-faced, loworbitted element is especially prominent. The change in head form of the Letts,110 less radical than that found in many parts of central and eastern Europe, may almost certainly be ascribed here to a general absorption of round-headed racial elements, of which several have been historically traced."



What makes certain populations low orbited as opposed to high orbited?
What environmental causes are involved. Europeans in general seem to be much more lower orbited than the other Races.

Also when you speak of low skulled you refer to having a low forehead as opposed to having a high one right?

Glenlivet
Sunday, September 26th, 2004, 02:53 PM
I don't know the environmental causes behind low or high orbits. What I do know is that long - and narrow-faced types of whatever colouration often have high or medium orbits that in old age have a tendency of external folding. The Saami tend to have low orbits. Median eyefolds, with thick fat depost, indicative of low orbits, are found among some Volhynians. Unlike their higher-orbitted surrounding, many Montenegrins have low orbits too. It's related with robusticity of the skull and stronger brow-ridges. The Afalou men had low orbits, as do many Northwestern African Berbers. The low orbit also goes with the blond mesocephalic and brachycephalic Finnic and Slavic groups. The Tydal and Old Paleo-Atlantid remnants here and there in Western Europe (e.g. pockets in western and southwestern Ireland and somewhat in the northwestern corner of northwestern Ireland) have a low orbit.

High orbits with no folds are characteristic of Dinarids and of most Near Eastern people.

When I speak of low-skulled I refer to the Height-Length Index (HLI). It's a relation taken on skulls, that of the skull height to the skull length. Out of the average types of Nordid varieties in Scandinavia, the HLI increase from the Gothic stock to the Västmanland and Trönder (highest in the local Hälsingland sub-type). The longer-headed Gothic population is also associated with a lower skull. The Västmanland, as well as the Fälish, have low orbits. A low forehead may indicate, at least if it appears the person in question has a lower earhole height and a flat crown, together with being meso - or sub-brachycranic. Generally speaking, the Cro-Magnoids, whether if they have actually survived in modern populations or not, had a flat crown which may mean a lower skull, tall stature, narrow nose, the eyes were low eyes, and the jaw and cheek-bones very strong. The frequent application of Cro-Magnon type in modern populations is wrong. There's however no doubt from Collignon's description that both the Cro-Magnon and Combe Capelle (higher-skulled) types survive in the Dordogne distict of Central France. It also seems as the former as well as the latter also survive in the north of the Iberian peninsula (Lundman call these short, stocky, broad-faced people Berid, and that some of them through time became a finer type, thus Insular).

Now, another type known from several skeletons (Brünn, Brux and Combe Capelle, &c.), possessed a very long and high-ridged skull. This type also had strong brows, deep-set low eyes, and projecting cheek-bones, and projecting upper jaw. It was, and is an element in the modern population of remote parts in several parts of the maritime fringe of Europe. It was also an important element among the people of the "Kurgan" burials that were numerous along the borders of the South Russian steppe (Fleure 1925 , Schwidetzky 1980).

So it looks like that Upper Paleolithic groups had low orbits but some had a flat crown and others a high-ridged, and partially because of that a lower or higher HLI.





What makes certain populations low orbited as opposed to high orbited?
What environmental causes are involved. Europeans in general seem to be much more lower orbited than the other Races.

Also when you speak of low skulled you refer to having a low forehead as opposed to having a high one right?

Väring
Monday, September 27th, 2004, 05:27 PM
I am clueless as to what the difference is between West-Baltid and East-Baltid.
By the way, what do you think of Dolph Lundgren as a West-Baltid?
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=702

Northern Paladin
Monday, September 27th, 2004, 05:57 PM
High orbits with no folds are characteristic of Dinarids and of most Near Eastern people.


Now, another type known from several skeletons (Brünn, Brux and Combe Capelle, &c.), possessed a very long and high-ridged skull. This type also had strong brows, deep-set low eyes, and projecting cheek-bones, and projecting upper jaw. It was, and is an element in the modern population of remote parts in several parts of the maritime fringe of Europe. It was also an important element among the people of the "Kurgan" burials that were numerous along the borders of the South Russian steppe (Fleure 1925 , Schwidetzky 1980).


Most Swedes seem to be High orbited and have no folds but this doesn't mean their Dinarid does it?

When you mean by projecting upper jaw are you referring to prognathism or something else? I always thought Brunn's were typically very Organthous.

Also regarding the Cro-Magnon type was it the only type that settled Europe?

Northern Paladin
Monday, September 27th, 2004, 06:10 PM
I am clueless as to what the difference is between West-Baltid and East-Baltid.
By the way, what do you think of Dolph Lundgren as a West-Baltid?
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=702


I get the impression East Baltids have wider rounder faces. As opposed to West-Baltids who are more Nordic in phenotype.

Väring
Tuesday, September 28th, 2004, 05:12 PM
I get the impression East Baltids have wider rounder faces. As opposed to West-Baltids who are more Nordic in phenotype.

My understanding of West-Baltids is that they are a mix between Phalian, Borreby and Uralic. If that indeed is so then their racial makeup are very similar to that of East-Baltids, and i fail to see why they would not be included in the East-Baltid type.

Glenlivet
Tuesday, September 28th, 2004, 08:20 PM
West-Baltid is roughly what Coon call Trondelag-like type in Latvia.

See plate Plate 32 of Coon's The Races of Europe.

"FIG. 3. Trondelag-like types are by no means confined to Norway. This individual is a Lett from Kurland of predominantly Nordic affiliation, but broader-headed and less delicate of facial features than the classic Iron Age type. Nordics of this general class are common in the Baltic Republics."

More information on West-Baltid:



East-Baltids have shorter heads and a different nasal shape, it's shorter, wider and the root is lower. Their malars project more as well. They also have faces that are flatter.




My understanding of West-Baltids is that they are a mix between Phalian, Borreby and Uralic. If that indeed is so then their racial makeup are very similar to that of East-Baltids, and i fail to see why they would not be included in the East-Baltid type.

cosmocreator
Wednesday, September 29th, 2004, 02:46 AM
More information on West-Baltid:




It is preferred that you don't link to Sk@di at TNP. You can copy and paste.

Väring
Wednesday, September 29th, 2004, 05:04 PM
West-Baltid is roughly what Coon call Trondelag-like type in Latvia.


I see. Do you know where or who the term stems from? Quite a few anthropologists doesn't seem to use the term, including Coon.

Glenlivet
Wednesday, September 29th, 2004, 05:50 PM
You can search for "Cheboksraov" on Sk@di and find some more information. You should receive one result, the thread "Anthropology of the Baltic Finns".

Coon also use terms that other anthropologists do not. By reading the descriptions one can often find out what they meant.



I see. Do you know where or who the term stems from? Quite a few anthropologists doesn't seem to use the term, including Coon.

Glenlivet
Thursday, September 30th, 2004, 12:07 AM
Yes, the bony orbit of many Swedes, as well as Norwegians, is rather high. Maybe you have also noticed that the eyes are wider open (more among females) than e.g. where the Fälish (also because of the cragginess of the superciliary region) type predominate. A narrow eye aperture is probably a Trönder characteristic too.

Orbits of moderate height go with long-headed, leptoprosopic individuals, and it doesn't matter whether they are more or less pigmented.

The facial features of the Borreby component that is found in southern Sweden, the Danish islands and Northern Germany seem to give a median fold and thick fat deposit and a low orbit. I can think of Anders-Fogh Rasmussen and Gerhard Schröder.

http://europa.eu.int/comm/mediatheque/photo/select/headsofs/p-009183-00-5h.jpg
http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/0005b/0005BCE9.jpg

What Coon call Brünn is a low to very (in Northwestern Germany) low-skulled type forming a population in mainly the western parts of Ireland. Coon was criticised by both Renato Biasutti and Bertil Lundman for using that term. It's actually a misnomer because the Brünn (I gave you a description from Fleure and Lundman) skull was found in a different region and it was keeled (ridged) at top. According to Lundman more Eastern Europeans are supposedly descendants of a gracile Brünn than are people in west. Ilse Schwidetzky called the Kurgans proto-Europoid (=Cro-Magnoid), but what she meant was some shared characteristics of robusticity between ethnic taxa. Fleure wrote about the confusion that arise when many use the term "Cro-Magnon type". Fleure (1925) wrote that "The matter has been confused by the frequent application of the term ' Cro-Magnon Type ' to all the above indiscriminately, mainly on the ground of long-headedness, and this makes it difficult at times to ascertain what writers really mean when they speak of survivals of the Cro-Magnon type in modern populations.

It's in any case sure what Coon wrote about, a modern type common in parts of Ireland (curiously in regions with a near 100% frequency of haplotype R1b) that form a population with traits that show a resemblance to some Palaeolithics, and the physical traits are found in individuals elsewhere. It's the same as Biasutti's Irish type of Nordid. http://www.geocities.com/dienekesp4/europids/

The Fälish has minor alveolar prognathism. It's obvious in Schwarzenegger and Oliver Kahn. The Irish type is perhaps somewhat more pigmented, more orthognathous and has a stronger brachycephalic tendency.

Cro-Magnon was not the only group that settled Europe during the Upper Paleolithic period.


Most Swedes seem to be High orbited and have no folds but this doesn't mean their Dinarid does it?

When you mean by projecting upper jaw are you referring to prognathism or something else? I always thought Brunn's were typically very Organthous.

Also regarding the Cro-Magnon type was it the only type that settled Europe?

Väring
Thursday, September 30th, 2004, 06:20 PM
What do you think is the predominant type among Lithuanians?

East-Baltic. Lithuanians are probably the least Nordic out of the three baltic nations.
Coon wrote that there are Alpinid and Dinarid strains to be found as well. Perhaps Pontid also.

Väring
Thursday, May 26th, 2005, 06:23 PM
Valdas Adamkus

http://www.mtv3.fi/uutiset/kuvat/eurooppa/naamat/liettuan-presidentti-adamkus.jpg

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40321000/jpg/_40321039_adamkus_ap203body.jpg

http://online.5ci.lt/Upload/200103/adamkus_T.jpg

Theudanaz
Thursday, May 26th, 2005, 07:37 PM
Presumably...

Väring
Tuesday, May 31st, 2005, 05:09 PM
Compare with Rolandas Paksas and Arturas Paulaskas whom i believe is of the same type.

http://www.freepressinternational.com/lithuania_rolandas_paksas.jpeg

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/baltic_nazis/latvia/images/010315b.jpg

Agrippa
Wednesday, June 1st, 2005, 12:26 AM
Compare with Rolandas Paksas and Arturas Paulaskas whom i believe is of the same type.

http://www.freepressinternational.com/lithuania_rolandas_paksas.jpeg

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/baltic_nazis/latvia/images/010315b.jpg

Those two are good examples for West Baltids and an argument for saying they are on the border to North Alpinoid/Borreby like many West Baltids.

Väring
Wednesday, June 1st, 2005, 08:16 PM
Those two are good examples for West Baltids and an argument for saying they are on the border to North Alpinoid/Borreby like many West Baltids.

Do you agree on my classification of Adamkus?

Agrippa
Thursday, June 2nd, 2005, 12:56 AM
Generally yes, but he is already more Borreby than Baltid probably.

Väring
Tuesday, April 18th, 2006, 05:12 PM
Andrus Värnik.

http://etvsport.ee/failid/172.JPG

http://www.balticguide.ee/i/08_04/kasvo.jpg

http://img9.uno.ee/img/pictures/11573.jpg

RedJack
Tuesday, April 18th, 2006, 08:50 PM
That's one rugged dude. Can you give us a description of West Baltid please.

Skildur
Tuesday, April 18th, 2006, 08:54 PM
He resembles this Russian actor who I believe is also West-Baltid:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-8/800462/07182001.JPG

Väring
Thursday, April 20th, 2006, 05:18 PM
That's one rugged dude. Can you give us a description of West Baltid please.

Do you remember Coon's Lett from Kurland?


Plate 32

NORDICS ALTERED BY NORTHWESTERN EUROPEAN UPPER PALAEOLITHIC MIXTURE: I

FIG. 3 (3 views). Trondelag-like types are by no means confined to Norway. This individual is a Lett from Kurland of predominantly Nordic affiliation, but broader-headed and less delicate of facial features than the classic Iron Age type. Nordics of this general class are common in the Baltic republics.

I was quite pleased to see that SNPA included Valdas Adamkus as an example of West-Baltid in their glossary when i classified him as such at TNP.


WEST-BALTID

A largely unreduced, only slightly balticized Cro-Magnid (East-Cro-Magnid). It represents one endpoint of the "Baltid continuum", opposite to East-Baltid (or Lappoid, in a broader sense). It is found in the Baltics, and to a lesser extent in Scandinavia and northeastern Germany, and is transitional to Dalo-Falid and Borreby types.

http://www.snpa.skadi.net/bilder/valdasadamkus.jpg

West-Baltid (Valdas Adamkus)

http://www.snpa.skadi.net/gloss2.htm

http://www.snpa.skadi.net/troe323b_small.jpg http://www.snpa.skadi.net/troe323c_small.jpg


(Kurland, Latvia; Blend of Corded and local Cro-Magnid,
the latter represented by West-Baltid/East-Cro-Magnid)

http://www.snpa.skadi.net/rg-tronder.htm

Mannerheim
Thursday, April 20th, 2006, 05:50 PM
You guys know that rugged attribute or ruggedness is straight connected to Hgh?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_hormone

It makes facial traits much more sturdier and i mean much.

This "ruggedness" is popular among with atheletes also without using pure hgh, cause it is formed cause of their athlete lifestyle.

- Much physical exercising

- Perfect diet,everything what body needs is looked after.

- Much sleep


So if you want to be rugged,use hgh.:)

Thruthheim
Thursday, April 20th, 2006, 06:05 PM
So if you want to be rugged,use hgh.:)

That stuff can also cause unwanted growth, such as a protruding forehead!

Mannerheim
Thursday, April 20th, 2006, 06:12 PM
That stuff can also cause unwanted growth, such as a protruding forehead!

Yes,that may be a little side-effect.

The Black Prince
Thursday, April 20th, 2006, 10:16 PM
Watching the the pics I think's he's West-Baltid + East-Nordid admixture, his facial indexes are to high (narrow/long faced) to be fully Cromagnid.

Does however resemble Coon's Baltic Trønder, but I don't count him as West-Baltid, he should be broader faced with robuster jaws and broader headed to be seen as West-Baltid (in other words loose the Nordid traits).

Valdus Adamkus is indeed an excellent example of West-Baltid.

Personally I think these might be mostly West-Baltid/East-Cromagnid.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d169/-aaabbb-/demi001586_1.jpg
Ivan Demidov (pred. West-Baltid)

http://www.fc-zenit.ru/images/players/Spivak.jpg
Oleksandr Spivak (pred. West-Baltid)

http://www.fc-zenit.ru/images/players/Malafeev.jpg
Viacheslav Malafeev (West-Baltid bordering Coon's Baltic Trønder)

Väring
Saturday, April 22nd, 2006, 06:01 PM
Valdus Adamkus is indeed an excellent example of West-Baltid.

He is. Rolandas Paksas and Arturas Paulauskas are of the same type.

http://www.freepressinternational.com/lithuania_rolandas_paksas.jpeg

http://media.search.lt/GetFile.php?OID=94264&FID=273938

Nicola_Canadian
Tuesday, May 16th, 2006, 05:48 AM
Plz classify this Russian football/soccer player and the coach of the junior Russian team that recently won the Euro Cup...

http://www.peoples.ru/sport/football/kolyvanov/kolyvanov_1.jpg
http://www2.raisport.rai.it/news/sport/calcio/199711/11/34685758053b4/RUS3.JPG
http://sport.gazeta.ru/files/639695/pun.jpg

Agrippa
Tuesday, May 16th, 2006, 01:22 PM
Baltid yes, but exact form...I'd say rather Westbaltid.

Mannerheim
Sunday, September 24th, 2006, 06:08 PM
Imo good example.

http://www.junis.se/filer/pressbilder/åsa%20hansson.jpg

Kshatriya
Wednesday, December 6th, 2006, 02:50 AM
why is baltic hair colour often lighter then skando nordics?


like platinum

Vasilis
Tuesday, January 9th, 2007, 02:57 PM
Antanas Sireika, Lithuanian basketball coach.

9218292184
9218392185
92181

Nseag
Tuesday, January 9th, 2007, 03:00 PM
Antanas Sireika, Lithuanian basketball coach.

9218292184
9218392185
92181

west-Baltid isn't pure racial type.

Vasilis
Tuesday, January 9th, 2007, 03:59 PM
west-Baltid isn't pure racial type.

Yes, they are slightly balticized Cro-magnids.
I didn't express it very well, but i think you can get my point.A typical West-Baltid. Sorry.

Nseag
Tuesday, January 9th, 2007, 04:09 PM
Yes, they are slightly balticized Cro-magnids.
I didn't express it very well, but i think you can get my point.A typical West-Baltid. Sorry.

Ok ;)

yes, I think he is pred. west-Baltid

west-Baltid is a racial type less influenced by mongoloids than east-baltids

Vasilis
Tuesday, January 9th, 2007, 07:05 PM
west-Baltid is a racial type less influenced by mongoloids than east-baltids
West-Baltids are not influenced by mongoloids at all.
And i'm not sure if all East-Baltids have by definition mongoloid strain.

goldgrube
Sunday, February 25th, 2007, 07:54 PM
183cm

http://peoples.ru/art/music/stage/leschenko/leschenko_4.jpg
http://www.vestnik.com/issues/2002/1030/images/nuzov_leshchenko2.jpg
http://www.lev-leshenko.com/0_9.jpg
http://www.lev-leshenko.com/0_24.jpg
heehe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no2bX-hsvD4

thegunslinger
Wednesday, April 20th, 2011, 06:17 PM
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/7379/image492414171.jpg

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/5157/image492706906.jpg

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/1264/image492956671.jpg

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/3341/image493068218.jpg

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7249/image516453500.jpg

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/9231/image516477453.jpg

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/2219/westbaltid.jpg

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/7082/130071885737008099.jpg

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7696/1234rus.jpg

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/1974/assdfgghtyujgh.jpg

celticviking
Wednesday, August 8th, 2012, 08:17 AM
Baltid

Paul von Hindenburg
Inguna Butane
Natalia Semanova


West-Baltid

Maryna Linchuk from Belarus
Milda Gecaite of Lithuania
Elena Esovolova
Patryk Małecki
Vaira Vike-Freiberga
Piotr Jacon
Guntars Račs
Nauris Puntulis
Armands Šķēle
Ģirts Ķesteris