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Loki
Wednesday, December 17th, 2003, 09:03 PM
Got this info from a post of FadeTheButcher on Phora - a book he is currently readong:

“In the second half of the seventeenth century, when Kasimov’s khanate was liquidated and the Russian tsars became powerful enough to manage without the assistance of Tatar troops, Russification and conversion (of the local population) became a policy of the Moscow authorities. The possessions of Kasimov’s “tsars” became the Russian tsar’s, and the estates of Muslim Tatars were conveyed to their Christian relatives. Nevertheless Russia’s cooperation with the Tartars during the formative years of the Russian state was long felt in various spheres of life. Some of the best boyar families of Moscow were of Tartar origin. Among them were the Godunovs, the family of King Boris, who occupied the throne of Moscow from 1598 until his death in 1605; the Veliminov-Zernovs, whose scion wrote a fundamental work on Kasimov and its rulers in the nineteenth century; the Saburovs, the Bakhmetievs, and many others. All in all, according to the Russian historian N.P. Zagoskin’s calculations, 156 Russian noble families were of Tatar and other Asian origin. The historian Nikolai Karamzin and the poet Gavril Derzhavin, the writer Ivan Turgenev and the philosopher Petr Chaddaev were descendants of representatives from the ruling class of the Golden Horde who were assimilated by a process of matrimonial alliances with the Russians. Famous families of Russia’s high aristocracy, such as the princely Urusovs and Yusupovs, were direct and proud descendants of that Tatar nobility. Such examples are endless.

Russia’s history demonstrates that intermarriages were, at least among nobility, relatively widespread and served no only as a means of cementing Russian and Tatar political and military cooperation but as a vehicle of mutual influence. With a wife of different origin - even if she had to convert, which was almost always the case in premodern times - came new habits, traditions, and perspectives which ad a good chance of taking root in the husband’s social milieu, especially when family alliances had become a common practice. Connections between intermarriages and their impact on other spheres of society are often difficult to establish, because we know about matrimonial alliances primarily in the ruling classes, though a few facts about average people have been preserved. A few cases may show how this phenomena shaped the relationship between European and Islamic civilizations.”

Ilya V. Gaiduk, The Great Confrontation: Europe and Islam Through the Centuries (Chicago, 2003), p.170-171

Pomor
Thursday, December 18th, 2003, 03:00 AM
First of all it's Tatar, not Tartar. The Tatars he is talking about are Volga Bulgars, and if it is a nobility of Volga Bulgars than they are blonde, blue-eyed Nordics, mostly. Here are the pics of people he is talking about.

Karamzin

http://www.ec.mv.ru/~kvv/simbirsk/img/karamzin1.gif

http://www.hist.msu.ru/ER/Etext/karamzin.jpg

Derzhavin

http://www.litera.ru/stixiya/litimages/derzhavin.jpg

Turgenev

http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/j/Ivan%20Turgenev.jpg

Chaadaev

http://www.emory.edu/INTELNET/rus_thinkers_gif/chaadaev.gif

Stríbog
Thursday, December 18th, 2003, 03:12 AM
Russian and Tartar intermixture:
http://go.hrw.com/atlas/norm_map/russia.gif

+

http://www.parkviewmc.com/images/tartar_sauce.jpg

= ???

Loki
Thursday, December 18th, 2003, 07:27 AM
LOL. Funny post Stribog :-)