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Glenlivet
Wednesday, December 17th, 2003, 06:47 PM
Is he a good example of a Faelid?

Pomor
Wednesday, December 17th, 2003, 07:14 PM
Is he a good example of a Faelid?

More like Baltid/Nord, imo. He looks like if he was from Finland.

norda
Wednesday, December 17th, 2003, 07:58 PM
More like Baltid/Nord, imo. He looks like if he was from Finland.
He looks like a Russian from the profile side. Lips ar larger then typical nordic, nose is saddle style, chin rather goes back

Glenlivet
Wednesday, December 17th, 2003, 08:32 PM
Cool, more comments?

norda
Wednesday, December 17th, 2003, 08:50 PM
Cool, more comments?
Its hard to guess since there is no en-face picture and the eyes are almost close. Jaw is rather strong so UP element (Boreby) could be dominant in this part of the face. I would agree that he could be German but not so Faelid to be typical. Maybe it's due to the bad picture. I think that this guy from my region Pomerania looks more typical for Faelid type.
http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3311

Glenlivet
Thursday, December 18th, 2003, 04:49 PM
The guy you showed is definitely not a Faelid. Maybe Aistin or something. I have never seen someone like him in Celtic/Germanic Europe.

I will attach six more photos of the first man. Two are as a child.

I think that one can tell the type from the nasal shape and the slight alveolar prognathism which he share with a famous countryman. There I said enough.

Allenson
Thursday, December 18th, 2003, 05:12 PM
I don't think the ski racer you posted, Volks is a "text-book" Faelid but he certainly leans in that direction some: he's got the strong jaw, the low orbits and the heavy upper eye-lids.

Glenlivet
Thursday, December 18th, 2003, 05:13 PM
Did you see all the photos?

Two more...



I don't think the ski racer you posted, Volks is a "text-book" Faelid but he certainly leans in that direction some: he's got the strong jaw, the low orbits and the heavy upper eye-lids.

Allenson
Thursday, December 18th, 2003, 05:28 PM
Did you see all the photos?

Two more...


Hi Volks,

Yes, I now see the others you posted. He is rather Faelid now that I see some other views...and more so than I originally thought. He's got a broader face and nose (the nostrils specifacally) than a 'classic' Nordid and the low orbits almost always are a sign of Faelid. Is he Austrian?

Glenlivet
Thursday, December 18th, 2003, 05:31 PM
Of course, the man is Austrian, and the countryman I referred to is Mr. Arnold Schwarzenegger, Governor of California.

He is a good Alpine skier and his name is Benjamin Raich.

Thanks for your input.



Hi Volks,

Yes, I now see the others you posted. He is rather Faelid now that I see some other views...and more so than I originally thought. He's got a broader face and nose (the nostrils specifacally) than a 'classic' Nordid and the low orbits almost always are a sign of Faelid. Is he Austrian?

Allenson
Thursday, December 18th, 2003, 05:35 PM
I want to get to some of the other Alpine skiers you posted yeterday as well. I grew up on skis here in VT and did quite a bit of racing myslef when I was younger and it always strikes me how Nordid (of one Nordid type or another) ski racers are. Even here in the States it's the same way; Alpine ski racers tend to be very Nordid. It's almost like it runs in their veins or something.

Glenlivet
Thursday, December 18th, 2003, 05:40 PM
Well, not the Croatian one. It depends where they come from. The rosy complexion shows itself during the cold winters too. I do not know if it is a real selection.

One could say that I too grew up on skis, although I have not had a lot of opportunity to ski during the last 3-4 years.



I want to get to some of the other Alpine skiers you posted yeterday as well. I grew up on skis here in VT and did quite a bit of racing myslef when I was younger and it always strikes me how Nordid (of one Nordid type or another) ski racers are. Even here in the States it's the same way; Alpine ski racers tend to be very Nordid. It's almost like it runs in their veins or something.

Glenlivet
Monday, January 5th, 2004, 05:33 PM
Jens Lehmann

Awar
Monday, January 5th, 2004, 05:41 PM
Don't faelids have taller heads?

Allenson
Monday, January 5th, 2004, 06:40 PM
Don't faelids have taller heads?


I think that they are generally of medium vault height....

Jethro Tull
Monday, January 5th, 2004, 06:48 PM
Don't know if this guy have mixture enough with Hallstatt to be faelid. I see only borreby.

Agrippa
Monday, January 5th, 2004, 07:02 PM
Don't know if this guy have mixture enough with Hallstatt to be faelid. I see only borreby.

He is predominantely Borreby (North-Alpine) but with some Nordid admixture.

But I would say it is reasonable to call him Dalofaelid.

Triglav
Monday, January 5th, 2004, 07:09 PM
I've always maintained that he was Faelid/Borreby.

http://www.dfb.de/dfb-team/nationalteam/team/lehmann1.jpg http://www.zdf.de/ZDFde/img/1/0,1886,2077089,00.jpg http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Photo/competitions/UCL/6242_351X180.jpg

http://www.zeche-hugo.com/mediac/400_0/media/DIR_19621/Lehmann.jpg http://www.goleiros.com.br/Fotos/lehmann3.jpg

sud
Monday, January 5th, 2004, 11:30 PM
I think he is Faelid as majority.

Glenlivet
Tuesday, January 6th, 2004, 08:12 PM
Not anymore. The New Year partying is over. I had that signature for Christmas. I just like the original text. Joseph Mohr wrote it. He was Austrian. Was he Jewish?




Are you drunk or something? :D

- Thorburn

Frans_Jozef
Wednesday, January 7th, 2004, 01:22 AM
All considered he appears neither Faelid and least of all Borreby, but he is best described as a lean, relatively *shorter*-faced representative of the Northwestern Germanic/Megalithic type, which basically differed from the proper Nordics by a less pronounced dolichocephaly, steep forehead and by a rather medium-narrow face; I cant remember in which thread precisely I've treated this subject, it was though a request to classification of von Stauffenberg summited by Ladygoeth, and I declared him typical of that subrace.

Nordgau
Wednesday, January 7th, 2004, 01:00 PM
I just like the original text. Joseph Mohr wrote it. He was Austrian. Was he Jewish?

Nö. Link: Joseph Mohr - the text poet (http://www.oberndorf.co.at/museum/StilleNacht/MohrGB.htm)

Frans_Jozef
Wednesday, January 7th, 2004, 01:51 PM
No, but the "blessed boy" was Jewish, and so were his parents, the "holy couple"; and he was not "God's son" either, because God - if there is one - fertilizes no human sons, and definitely not Jewish ones. He could do better, and he would have spoken a better Hebrew, too. ;)

The music is awesome, by Franz Gruber, a Nord! (So dark-Nordid, LOL)

Mohr looks Noric to me.

http://www.german-way.com/german/stille.html

- Thorburn

Franz X. Gruber wouldn't be stand out as a Flemish citizen, a slightier more brunet and broader-faced Keltic Nordic type; *Belgians* are as a whole stockier and lateral build than the neighbouring French, Germans and Dutch...it transpires undiscriminantly all racial categories.

http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/museum/59/gruber.html

Milesian
Wednesday, January 7th, 2004, 01:56 PM
No, but the "blessed boy" was Jewish, and so were his parents, the "holy couple"; and he was not "God's son" either, because God - if there is one - fertilizes no human sons, and definitely not Jewish ones. He could do better, and he would have spoken a better Hebrew, too. ;)

- Thorburn

LOL!
Njord there is a forum full of Pushkin's posts which consigns this erroneous opinion to the rubbish bin. Come on, just accept the fallacy of the argument. Even Njord Satansson must defer to the truth eventually. You can only dig your heels in for so long ;) :Dhttp://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=6565

Frans_Jozef
Wednesday, January 7th, 2004, 02:10 PM
I layed aside Catholicism as a teenager, with no remorse nor ressentiment, I grew simply out of it during a phase which in another epoch would have made me a Marcionite...I dont feel the need to adhere an idealogy or religion, though I am able to appreciate certain values and principles in manifold traditions and beliefs, and if they make of a woman or man a better and virtious, magnanimous individual so much the better for him or her...

Milesian
Wednesday, January 7th, 2004, 02:19 PM
I layed aside Catholicism as a teenager, with no remorse nor ressentiment, I grew simply out of it during a phase which in another epoch would have made me a Marcionite...I dont feel the need to adhere an idealogy or religion, though I am able to appreciate certain values and principles in manifold traditions and beliefs, and if they make of a woman or man a better and virtious, magnanimous individual so much the better for him or her...

Hehe, funny that my growth was the opposite - actually heading towards Catholicism from Athiesm. But you have a good magnanimous attitude there :)

Milesian
Wednesday, January 7th, 2004, 03:23 PM
:ban?

- Thorburn

No, not at all.
You've contributed very well in your own particular magnanimous style for a long time now. I think if anyone deserves another chance, it's you old buddy ;) :D

Milesian
Wednesday, January 7th, 2004, 03:59 PM
Ha-ha... okay, you win. Where is this High-5 smilie? :scratch

- Thorburn

Hee-Hee!

Frans_Jozef
Wednesday, January 7th, 2004, 05:48 PM
No, but the "blessed boy" was Jewish, and so were his parents, the "holy couple"; and he was not "God's son" either, because God - if there is one - fertilizes no human sons, and definitely not Jewish ones. - Thorburn

I am a layman in comparitative history of religions, but
the reason the Germanics were so eager to propitiate with arian christianity was that arianism tallied roughly speaking with Germanic Mythology - foremost the concept of godly born chiefs tide over the differences between the two religions, even if by nature and substance they're surely not merely periferical distinct.

Awar
Wednesday, January 7th, 2004, 06:14 PM
I hear someone's talking about magnanimity :D
I understand I'm magnanimous, whatever that means :)

Frans_Jozef
Wednesday, January 7th, 2004, 06:29 PM
I hear someone's talking about magnanimity :D
I understand I'm magnanimous, whatever that means :)

It's the adverb to magnanimity....*grootmoedig* in Dutch language. ;)

Frans_Jozef
Thursday, January 8th, 2004, 01:50 AM
I am a layman in comparitative history of religions, but
the reason the Germanics were so eager to propitiate with arian christianity was that arianism tallied roughly speaking with Germanic Mythology - foremost the concept of godly born chiefs tide over the differences between the two religions, even if by nature and substance they're surely not merely periferical distinct.

Jezus and the Apostles were depicted like a chief with his hird (vigilants, guard).

In the arianism is Jesus God's son but also human, he is killed (sacrificed) and reincarnated (as a human). Such a process might for the Germans be quite natural and understandeble. Of course the arian clergymen did not regard Chirst as mere human but vthe common folk would hardly care of such finesses. The son could of course not be the same person as the father, and so even the Holy Ghost was added as the same person by the nicenians. The arian opposal to this statement might well be understood by the Germans as a rejection of a polyteistic religion with three gods. They had been told there was only one god. Still an important explanation is that it replaced the old common cult with a new which differed from the neighbouring mediterranean folks and in that way served as the new etnicity, which stopped the Goths to merge with the new cultures. Not until they accepted the catholic faith did the ethnicity finally begin to dissolve.

English translation from Ingemar Nordgren's Goterkällan - Om goterna i Norden och på Kontinenten, the basic idea in his book is that Odinism was the corner-stone of the Gothic people, cementing its identity, and that embracing Arianism was simple since the Odinist inner teachings makes mention of symbolic killing and reincarnation of the male members.

Väring
Friday, April 29th, 2005, 03:42 PM
Kurt Russell.

http://entimg.msn.com/i/150/ce/0304/Russell_150x208.jpg

http://www.kirstenp.claranet.de/moviefaces/actor/r/kurtrussell.jpg

Is Rutger Hauer of the same type?

http://www.rutgerhauer.org/hotshots/hotphoto/hsup20b.jpg

Todesritter
Friday, April 29th, 2005, 03:46 PM
Two of my favorite actors!:) Eager to see what the experts here think about them.

Agrippa
Friday, April 29th, 2005, 04:05 PM
Both are predominantely Cromagnoid, thats for sure.

Russel looks to me like a Northern Alpinoid (Borreby) with Atlantid and Dalofaelid admixture.

Hauer is pred. Dalofaelid with Nordid admixture.

Edwin
Friday, April 29th, 2005, 06:54 PM
I say Kurt Russell is more of a Brünn derived, New World Cro-Magnoid than a Borreby or Falian. He and Bill Clinton sometimes look alike.

But I totally agree with you about Rutger Hauer. He is a Falian with noticeable gracile admixture.

Agrippa
Friday, April 29th, 2005, 08:26 PM
Its interesting that my father and Hauer have basically the same problem.
When Hauer was young, I just thought about his appearance in "Blade Runner", he had an almost ideal body build, of an Athletic Longitypus, but when he aged, he turned rather into an Pykno-Athletic looking form, same happened to my father who has noticeable Cromagnid-robust Alpinoid influence.


New World Cro-Magnoid than a Borreby or Falian. He and Bill Clinton sometimes look alike.

Can't that be the typical mixture of some regions? Rather stabilised though...

There is always a problem with defining "Bruenn", since some definitions would be basically the same as Dalofaelid (light) or even Palaeatlantid (dark), whereas other views imply a relation, but rather robust Nordid type with a longer-narrower face and other characteristics, untypical for Dalofaelids, typical Cromagnids.

RedJack
Wednesday, May 4th, 2005, 01:39 AM
There is always a problem with defining "Bruenn", since some definitions would be basically the same as Dalofaelid (light) or even Palaeatlantid (dark), whereas other views imply a relation, but rather robust Nordid type with a longer-narrower face and other characteristics, untypical for Dalofaelids, typical Cromagnids.

I use the SNPA definition since it is the best anthro site I've been able to find. I wish I could find some more.

Väring
Tuesday, June 21st, 2005, 05:23 PM
Roland Kickinger

http://www.kickinger.com/gallery/images/Acting/01.jpg

Agrippa
Tuesday, June 21st, 2005, 05:40 PM
I think typical Dalofaelids/Cromagnids have more often very thin lips, usually even thinner than that of Skandonordid people.

Väring
Sunday, December 11th, 2005, 06:38 PM
1. David Hasselhoff
2. Rutger Hauer
3. Dieter Bohlen
4. Grace Kelly
5. Angela Merkel
6. Jason Patric
7. Brad Pitt
8. Jürgen Prochnow
9. Erwin Rommel
10. Kurt Russell

Skildur
Monday, December 12th, 2005, 10:57 PM
http://www.dolshouse.com/queensmen/image/cobain1.jpg

I think he is also Faelid.

OdinThor
Tuesday, April 25th, 2006, 11:04 AM
Are these both football players faelids?

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c303/OdinThor/roberthuth.jpghttp://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c303/OdinThor/marcelljansen.jpg

They show similarities to these roman depictions of the early gemans, imo:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c303/OdinThor/germanen.jpg

Zaur
Tuesday, April 25th, 2006, 12:15 PM
I think the first one was Noric.

Iksfiluss
Tuesday, April 25th, 2006, 02:30 PM
I think the first one was Noric.
yes, me too:)

Sigurd Volsung
Tuesday, April 25th, 2006, 03:46 PM
Jansen (right) appears to be more Faelish than Huth (left) who, as the other previous members say, looks somewhat Noric. In addition, both of them have somewhat Nordid admixture.

Here are some more pictures:

Marcel Jansen

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Photo/footballeurope/FootballEurope/370617_MEDIUMSQUARE.jpg

http://www.d.lycos.de/startseite/sport/content/dpa_files/pic/jansen_9688042.onlineBild.jpg

http://www.rp-online.de/layout/showbilder/10199-1_ap_jansen.jpg


Robert Huth

http://www.socfc.dk/billeder/spillerne/Robert%20Huth.JPG

http://img1.eurosport.com/imgbk/footbl/all/big_md-i190056.jpg

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/06/c/GER/207861_l.jpg

Väring
Tuesday, April 25th, 2006, 05:14 PM
1. Faelid altered by Noric.
2. Faelid

OdinThor
Wednesday, April 26th, 2006, 02:30 PM
Thanks, Im not sure about Noric.

His nose is kind of interesting though:

Skerritt
Wednesday, April 26th, 2006, 02:55 PM
1. Faelid altered by Noric.
2. Faelid


Agreed with this more or less, though No.2 looks Skandid-Faelid.

Theudiskaz
Wednesday, April 26th, 2006, 02:59 PM
Marcel Jansen is predominantly Nordic, in my opinion. I think he could be Anglo-Saxon.

Nicola_Canadian
Wednesday, April 26th, 2006, 07:12 PM
Agree


1. Faelid altered by Noric.
2. Faelid

The Black Prince
Wednesday, April 26th, 2006, 11:15 PM
Robert Huth is Faelid altered with Dinarid and Atlantid admixture.
Marcel Jansen is Faelid + Nordid admixture


I wouldn't count Marcel as a typical "Germanic Reihengräber type"(what Coon called Anglo-Saxon type) he lacks the extremities, e.g. rugged angularity, larger vault and longer face, which where common among these.
But these traits are merely retrieved from averages on populations so someone having lesser of the above named traits could verywell have belonged too them.

Robert Huth might have looked like some of the Germanic people who lived in more southern area's (and where more mixed). But I would call him rather Germanic though than Keltic or Slavic.

Jäger
Thursday, April 27th, 2006, 09:13 AM
What is about Christian Ulmen?

http://www.machmit-5amtag.de/cms/www.machmit.de/data/media/48/christian_ulmen.jpg

http://www.prosieben.de/imperia/md/images/show_und_comedy/mein_neuer_bester_freund/teaser/ulmen_christian_04_04_12_200_225_dpa.jpg

http://www.kino.de/pix/MBBILDER/MITWIRK/Z0330551.JPG

http://www.netzeitung.de/img/0078/176378.jpg

?

Northern Paladin
Thursday, April 27th, 2006, 09:20 AM
The first one is altered by Dinarid. The second is just Faelid.

RedJack
Friday, April 28th, 2006, 05:11 PM
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=57770&d=1146057924

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=57883&stc=1&d=1146240632

Interesting resemblance to this image of Agrippa, right down to the nose.

OdinThor
Friday, April 28th, 2006, 05:54 PM
I wouldn't count Marcel as a typical "Germanic Reihengräber type"(what Coon called Anglo-Saxon type) he lacks the extremities, e.g. rugged angularity, larger vault and longer face, which where common among these.
But these traits are merely retrieved from averages on populations so someone having lesser of the above named traits could verywell have belonged too them.

Do these "reihengräber" skulls represent the type of the original germans/germanics? I somehow figured they should have been more in a Cromagnoid direction.

Nseag
Saturday, April 29th, 2006, 01:02 AM
Marcel Jansen

Nordid+possibly east-baltid





Robert Huth

Nordid+possibly Dinarid

I think its nose is broken therefore has rare form.

The Black Prince
Sunday, April 30th, 2006, 12:03 AM
Do these "reihengräber" skulls represent the type of the original germans/germanics? I somehow figured they should have been more in a Cromagnoid direction.

Here you have a pic of an average "Germanische Reihengräber" skull:

http://i1.tinypic.com/rr71b5.jpg
Thanks to Glenlivet, please note though that the skull is angled in resting position this may change perception somewhat comparing with a straigth frontal/profile of a living example!

My opinion(for what its worth ;))

I don't think the "Reihengräber" typus was common among the complete Old-Germanic people, but it was the most dominant type (with some variation, as I noted within the previous post) among the western Germanics.

The western Germanics means the the Ingaevones, the Herminones and Instaevones (original noted down by Tacitus as the Germans).
This means general speaking: Northsea Germanics, Rhine river Germanics and others within the borders of the ancient Roman designation of the provinces Germania inferior/superior/I/II, i.o.w. Netherlands (above the rhine), North-Germany, Northern Poland and Denmark (mainland).

The variation is as follows the Danes where more broadfaced (possible nearer to Borreby/Faelid) while the Northsea type was longer faced, the others are pretty basic.

Anthropologists

I thickset the answer of you question about the blend involved concerning the Cromagnid part, I believe Coon was right about it:

Carleton Coon his summary about the global West-Germanic phenotype, he based his research upon this type mainly on the works of M.W. Hauschild, G.M. Morant and O.Reche.

The western branch of Germanic-speaking peoples, while historically less spectacular, was destined to be far more important in the eventual peopling of Europe. This included the ancestors of the Anglo-Saxons, of the Frisians, and of the Germans proper. Among the latter may be listed the Franks, the Alemanni, the Bavarians, the Thuringians, and the Chatti, whose descendants are the Hessians. Under the Franks may be listed the ancestors of the Flemish- and Dutch-speaking peoples whose closely related languages are a mixture of low Franconian and Saxon elements. All of these peoples worked their way southward, and in some cases westward, gradually and without ostentation; the Alemanni to Switzerland and Austria, the Bavarians to the principality which bears their name, the Thuringians to Bohemia as well as to Thuringia, and the Franks to the upper Rhine country, Belgium, and France. The Burgundians, members of the eastern branch of Germans, sophisticated like the Goths from contact with the Roman Empire, crossed the Rhine ahead of the Franks, and occupied Rhenish Gaul at the same time that the Vandals were admitted under Roman sanction.

The prototype of the western German peoples who migrated from the region about the mouth of the Elbe is well represented by a series of skulls from Hannover which includes 41 male crania.[78] (See Appendix I, col. 42.) Metrically, these differ from the Danish Iron Age skulls in being slightly longer, somewhat broader, and considerably higher. The foreheads are broader, and the face is wider, and in many cases a bit longer. These skulls deviate from the normal Nordic type of central European origin with which we are familiar in their greater size and roibusticity, and particularly in their greater vault height.

The skulls of the Anglo-Saxons who invaded England in the fourth and fifth centuries of the present era[79] (see Appendix I, col. 43) are almost identical with this Hannover group. It is to this same specific category that the Spanish Visigothic skulls to which we have already referred belong. To it must be added two series of old Frisians from northern Holland,[80] which are identical in every respect. The skulls of these old Saxons, old Hanoverians, and old Frisians differ in a number of ways from those of other Nordics which we have studied. They arc larger than the Aunjetitz group and the Danes, and in fact any other series of Indo-European speakers that we have met, except the Norwegians. They lack the low vault and sloping forehead common to the earlier Nordics of Denmark, the Gauls, and the Scyths. The vault is moderately high; while the cranial index is on the border of dolicho- and mesocephaly. Compared with the other Nordics, the forehead is relatively straight, the browridges are greater, the muscular markings more pronounced, the cranial base wider, the face longer and somewhat wider.

The type represented by these three groups and by the Visigoths seems to be a variant of the Nordic type to which the early Indo-European speakers belonged. Its difference is one of size, and it appears to have attained this distinction through a mixture, in southern Scandinavia and Germany, between the older local population, consisting of a combination of Megalithic, Corded, and Borreby elements, and the purely Nordic Danish Iron Age group. The resultant type approaches in some respects, but does not even approximate in size, the coastal Norwegian population which we have already studied, and it deviates far less from the central European Nordic than does the Norwegian group.

This physical type is accompanied by tall stature, of about 170 cm., and by a considerable heaviness and robusticity of the long bones. The bodily build was clearly heavier and thicker set than that of the previously studied Nordics. That it was characteristically blond is attested by the pigmentation of living examples as well as by numerous early descriptions. This type, being a mixed variety of central European Nordic combined with old northwestern European elements, is not a true Nordic in the sense in which the word has been used in this work, and its common and exclusive designation as Nordic in popular parlance as in scientific works is responsible for much of the confusion prevalent in the identification of that racial type today. Since it is found among both West and East Germans of the period of dispersal, it is essentially the Germanic or Teutonic racial type. The eccentric linguistic position of the Germanic peoples in the total Indo-European family has its racial connotations.

H.C. Folmer about the "Reihengräber" typus:

Uberall sind die Altengermanen an den Nordseekusten vollkommen identisch mit dem Reihengräber-typus und stehen demselben gleich, sowohl in Langen-Breiten index, wie in Langen-Hohen index, und in absolute hohe.

Earlier threads dealing with the concept

Best thread:
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=39157

The now following threads are rather incomplete, and also the pictures in it don't show up anymore since the 'Skadi down event' :

http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=9454
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=30694
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=9285
There are probably more but they also suffered from the 'Skadi down event'

Concerning Classsic Nordids

As you have read now, the Nordid in the classic type was unpresent as it seems, this is not true.

There where some populations of classic Nordids, mainly among the Danes/Jutes, Frisians and Swedes during the Iron-Age and Roman era. The Swedish "classic" type might be comparable with the nowadays Götatype I'm not sure though otherwise it might be best designated as "Norse Germanic type", the Frisian "classic" type was named "Friterp type" (Nyessen) and the Danish "classic type" belonged mainly to the Central European Nordid type (Halstatt according to C. Coon).

OdinThor
Sunday, April 30th, 2006, 10:36 AM
Thanks Black Prince.

I get an idea of what the old germanics looked like.;)

Regarding the "Reihengräber" skull, I have to say it looks somewhat primitive with the protruding mouth and retreating forehead.:-O

Waarnemer
Sunday, April 30th, 2006, 12:29 PM
Thanks Black Prince.

I get an idea of what the old germanics looked like.;)

Regarding the "Reihengräber" skull, I have to say it looks somewhat primitive with the protruding mouth and retreating forehead.:-O
Yes, indeed very well observed, the receding forehead can be related to the cromagnid combe-capelle type, thus a rather primitive remain and otherwise the browridges look relatively protruding and heavy.

Theudiskaz
Sunday, April 30th, 2006, 04:49 PM
Yes, indeed very well observed, the receding forehead can be related to the cromagnid combe-capelle type, thus a rather primitive remain and otherwise the browridges look relatively protruding and heavy. Yeah, that skull does have a retreating forehead, but if Reihengraeber skulls are supposed to represent the Anglo-Saxon type, shouldn't they have a high vault? Also in the description it says the Reihengraeber skulls have a protruding chin. Well in the illustration it looks rather receeding, especially with the prognathic muzzle.

I'm no expert, but to me, overall this skull looks more like that of a predominantly Cromagnid person with Nordic influence, rather than a predominantly Nordic Person with Cromagnid influence.

The Black Prince
Sunday, April 30th, 2006, 10:01 PM
I agree it is not a good example, I found it in some thread here and it was the only example I had digital.:(

Thought the same about the low receding forehead, and the low vault. Concerning the vault it looks more Iron-Age Nordid than "Germanic Reihengräber". The face does look more typical, e.g. slight prognative, a lot of the earlier rowgrave skulls where not as orthognatic as more modern types, on a whole they where more archaic.

However the skull doesn't look extreme Cromagnid, indeed the skull is rugged and more masculent (the browridges) but on overall the vault shape is Nordid and the face is leptoprosopic (Cromagnid should be broadfaced or mediumbroadfaced).

The only other pic I have of a "Germanic Reihengräber" is a bit blurry since I made it today with a photocamera (I don't have a scanner), also the lower jaw is missing.

http://i3.tinypic.com/wujd5s.jpg
From J.D.H. Nyessen, a Frisian Iron-age skull from the Frisian terp area.

As you can see the browridges are still there but the vault is higher while still long and the forehead is high and rather steep than sloping, the zygomatic arches are less compressed than the usual Iron-Age Nordid while less broad as with Faelids on overall the head is still narrow and longheaded (dolichocephalic).

OdinThor
Monday, May 1st, 2006, 01:03 PM
Thanks Black Prince!

I just found that H.F.K. Günther classified such a skull (the first one) as typical Nordic.:-O

Menschengruppe mit schmalen Gesichtern, schmalen Langköpfen mit Überaugenbögen, schmalen Nasen, zurückgeneigten Stirnen und weit über den Nacken ausladenden Hinterhäuptern.
[..]
Sie müssen als eine Menschengruppe nahezu reiner nordischer Rasse betrachtet werden

http://white-history.com/earlson/german01.htm

The Black Prince
Monday, May 1st, 2006, 09:25 PM
I just found that H.F.K. Günther classified such a skull (the first one) as typical Nordic.:-O


Well I wouldn't call it "typical" Nordid but the skull falls rather within the Nordid category than in the Cromagnid category. And for the time period it was probably one of the commonest Nordid types.

There is an excerpt from the SNPA: The Nordic Skull and the Nordic Race, a Retrospect, which also mentions something about the "Reihengräber" which in short says that allthough the majority might belong to a Nordid type. There was quite some lack in homogenity, e.g. some where broadfaced, while more to the south and east the skulls became shorter on average.
Perhaps it's best to describe the particulair type we are discussing as Germanic "Reihengräber" since only "Reihengräber" can mean all variations that where found.


One of the most significant contributions to the further investigation of the characteristics and distribution of the Germanic skull form is Alexander Ecker’s well-known work "Crania Germaniae meridionalis occidentalis" from 1865. It contains descriptions with numerous measurements and illustrations of a total of 83 more or less complete skulls from old graves in Baden, Würtemberg, Bavaria, Hessen and Nassau. The material is derived partly from Frankish and Allemanic "Reihengräber" from the 5th-8th centuries in South Germany, partly from large round burial mounds "Hügelgräber" from the time of the Roman rule in Germania.

With his interpretation of the Reihengräber type as the characteristic skull form of the Germanic peoples of the Merovingian Era in Germany, Ecker's work has had a considerable influence on all later investigations of Germanic graves both in Germany and neighbouring countries. Ecker's description of the type agrees in all main points with that previously given of the Swedish skulls by A. Retzius. Ecker emphasizes also that he has made a comparison between the skulls from the South German graves and modern Swedish skulls, and that the comparison shows complete agreement between these and the Reihengräber form. Hence he comes to the conclusion that the modern Swedes and the old Franks and Allemanns represent branches of the same race, an interpretation which agrees with that of Retzius in 1856 where he states that the Franks, Burgundians and Goths together with the Scandinavian peoples belonged to the Germanic dolichocephalic orthognathous race.

In several respects Retzius' description of the Germanic skull type is more detailed than Ecker's, however in other respects the latter makes valuable contributions to the characterization of the type. This is true both of his excellent description of the forehead and occipital form and especially his emphasis of the characteristic pentagonal form of the skull in the norma occipitalis. Concerning the form of the facial skull in the Reihengräber type, Ecker states only that the face is narrow.

Ecker's investigations and the treatise by Rütimeyer and His, "Crania Helvetica", published the year before the appearance of "Crania Germanica", led to the same significant result that while the present population of South Germany and Switzerland is brachycephalic, and long skulls occur within this population only as rare exceptions, the grave finds from the Roman Iron Age to the Merovingian Era reveal contrasting craniological data, as brachycrany at that time was just as exceptional as dolichocrany is now. Compared with Retzius' above mentioned demonstration that the skull form of Sweden's population has remained unaltered for the last 1000 years, the results of Rütimeyer, His and Ecker for Middle Europe were extremely surprising. They gave rise to a long series of investigations of skeletal remains from prehistoric and later times both in Germany and neighbouring countries. It is beyond the scope of the present work to discuss the numerous publications which deal with the various collections of crania from Germanic graves, all the more so as this literature is treated in detail both in one of the present author’s earlier publications (1927) and by a number of other authors, most recently by Hug (1940). The most important result of these investigations is that the skull form which is common in these Germanic graves as regards the form of the braincase shows good agreement with that which Retzius found characteristic for the cranium of the peoples of the north and Ecker for the Reihengräber type, but as regards the form of the face the skulls exhibit extreme differences. In some cases the face is big and narrow, in others low and broad, the nose may vary from narrow to broad, the orbitae from low to high and may exhibit the most variable forms, and the face may vary from orthognathous to prognathous. It is thus obvious that the Reihengräber peoples do not represent a homogeneity. If the Reihengräber skull is regarded as the prototype of the Nordic skull it must be said that Fürsts`s characterization of its facial form (cf. above) does not hold generally but is characteristic only for a particular variant within the type.

Source: http://www.snpa.skadi.net/CNIInordicskull.htm