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Frans_Jozef
Tuesday, December 16th, 2003, 08:52 AM
http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php

What are "Lowlands languages and cultures"?
"Lowlands languages" are those Germanic languages that developed in the “Lowlands": the low-lying areas adjacent to the North Sea and the Baltic Sea. These are primarily Dutch, Zeelandic (Zeeuws, West Flemish), Frisian, Limburgish and Low Saxon (Low German). Also included are those languages that descended from autochtonous Lowlands languages and are used elsewhere; for example, Afrikaans, Lowlands-based emigrant languages, pidgins and creoles, and also English and Scots. “Lowlands cultures” are those cultures that utilize Lowlands languages or are clearly derived from such cultures.

Important

Lowlands-L is dedicated to discussion, exchange and dissemination of information as well as to networking among persons who have certain interests in common;

Lowlands-L is a moderated discussion group, not a 'chat room';

Lowlands-L does not focus on one specific language or culture but on a group of closely related linguistic and cultural varieties (which does not include German, North Germanic and Celtic);

Persons who study one or more of these language varieties are likely to benefit from supplementary information and resources shared on Lowlands-L. However, Lowlands-L does not offer actual language courses, nor is it intended to serve as a substitute for regular, structured language teaching;

Lowlands-L is not a translation agency. Translation work is limited to projects that are deemed beneficial to subscribers and to the general public.


Before you apply for subscription, and before you visit our links page and our guestbook, you might prefer to read more about Lowlands-L. Simply click on the language variety of your choice to find more information:

Afrikaans (South Africa, Namibia, Zimbabwe)

English

Appalachian (Appalachian Mountains, Eastern United States of America)

Frysk (Frisian – Netherlands, Germany)

Westlauwersk Frysk (Westerlauwer Frisian – Netherlands)

Seeltersk (Saterland Frisian – Germany)

Frasch (Continental North Frisian – Germany)

Öömrang (Insular North Frisian – Germany)

Limburgs (Limburgish – Netherlands, Belgium, Germany)

Algemein Gesjreve Limburgs (General Literary Limburgish)

Westelik Limburgs (Western Limburgish, dialect of Vliermaal, Belgium)

Nedersaksisch (Neddersassisch, Nedderdüütsch, Plattdüütsch) (Low Saxon – Netherlands, Germany)

Noordsassisch Plattdüütsch (Northern Low Saxon - Fehrs Guild (Sass) Orthography, Germany)

Nord-sassisch Plat-Duytsch (Northern Low Saxon - Lowlands Orthography, Germany)

Twentsch (Twente Low Saxon – Netherlands)

Stellingwarfs (Stellingwerven Low Saxon – Netherlands)

Plautdietsch (Mennonite Low Saxon – Russia, Central Asia, Germany, the Americas)

Nederlands (Dutch – Netherlands, Belgium, Surinam, Aruba, Netherlands West Indies)

Nederlands

Brabants (Brabantish – Netherlands, Belgium)

Westvlaams (Western Flemish – Belgium, France)

Zeêuws (Zeelandic – Netherlands)

Scots (United Kingdom, South Africa, the Americas, Australia, New Zealand)

Mainland Scots, Doric, Lallans (Mainland Scotland)

Ullans (Ulster Scots – Northern Ireland)

Shaetlan (Shetlandic – Shetland Islands, Scotland)

Mac Seafraidh
Tuesday, December 16th, 2003, 02:49 PM
I have been to that site before. It is awesome to compare the germnanic based languages.

Frans_Jozef
Tuesday, December 16th, 2003, 03:02 PM
I have been to that site before. It is awesome to compare the germnanic based languages.

It's incredible how versatile Low German is and helps you to understand, learn and speak other Germanic language; a real match maker for a unification of all Germanic tribes...

http://home.planet.nl/~obd/obo/platt/exlin.htm

Nordgau
Tuesday, December 16th, 2003, 06:14 PM
This one is nice! I think I must rummage about my old maps with Känsaß, Missuhr and Illerneu and do some plans for the future... ;)

http://www.iserv.net/~bsman/page_5__map_us.htm

http://www.iserv.net/~bsman/_derived/usmapframe.htm_txt_usmapf1.gif

The states highlighted in the map are those in which a significant number of German speaking North European emigrants came to settle in the 19th century. These emigrants, and their descendants, passed on their language, both High German and Low German, to succeeding generations. The Author fondly refers to this part of the United States as Platt Düütschland. Of course, Low German people finally settled in about every state, including Montana, Washington, New York, New Jersey, Texas and California. But the highlighted states had the largest amounts and it is where you can today still find a goodly number of Low German speakers.

In each of these states you can probably find most of the Low German dialects represented, although the emigrants from certain dialect areas in the Northern part of Europe did concentrate uniformly throughout the midwestern states.

For instance, starting at the eastern (Ohio) end of the Platt Düütschland area, in Ohio you'll find the Heide, Mennonite and Westphalian dialects. In Michigan there are some West Frisian. In Indiana you will find some Heide but mostly Westphalian. In Illinois you will find mostly Ost Frisian. Wisconsin has mostly Mecklenburg and Pommern. In Minnesota you can find Ost Frisian, Mennonite and Heide. Iowa contains some Schleswig, Holstein, and Ost Frisian and Nord Frisians. Missouri contains Bremen, Heide and Westphalians. Texas has some Westphalians. In Kansas you will find Mennonites, Heide, Ost Frisian and Holstein. In Nebraska you may find Ost Frisian, Holstein and Heide. In southeastern South Dakota you can find some Ost Frisian and Holstein speakers.

It must be understood that this is a cursory summary of the distribution of Low German dialects in the United States, based on the rather meager information that is currently available. Please contact the Author if you are able to provide further information about concentrations of Low Germans in this country.

Danke Schön

Dr. Solar Wolff
Friday, December 19th, 2003, 05:14 AM
This is a great thread!! I had no idea there were so many Low German languages. It should be noted that at the Platt Deutsch link there is an on-line site for lessons.

Another point is Thorburnulf's Platt Dueuechland map. At one time in America there was a argument over what language would be our official language. Some in New York spoke Dutch. We had whole regions which spoke only German. The founding fathers decided on English at the time of the Constitutional Convention, but only after heated debate.

In Pennsylvania the English-speakers would ask the German-speakers what language they were speaking. The legend is they replied "Deutsch" to which the English-speakers thought they were saying "Dutch" and so to this very day the people of that region are called "Pennsylvania Dutch". They still retain elements of their original culture, particularly their food which is famous throughout the USA. The Amish people, a religious sect of German origin, still can be heard speaking their own language and call other Americans "the English".

My grandfather, who spoke no German and whose ancestors had left German in 1848, was always using German words in his conversation without realizing it. Either this was passed on by the family or the other people living in this rural town in Oklahoma also used these words. For instance, he once asked me "Is that coffee too stark for you?"

Another example: Once I heard on television a woman from Brighton, in very Southern England say a word "rot", as it is said in German, and mean exactly the same thing--the color red.

Low German is so easy for English speakers to understand that teachers are reluctant to repeat any of it in school. They are afraid we would get too lazy if the words were too similar. Likewise, almost every German (including the high German areas) I have ever asked has claimed to be able to read and understand Dutch.

Question: Is English really so easy for others to learn or perhaps a new "Lingua Franca" could be invented from Low German which could unite all the speakers of the West Germanic languages. And then, maybe, we could find a truly free country in which to speak it.

Nordgau
Friday, December 19th, 2003, 09:41 PM
Likewise, almost every German (including the high German areas) I have ever asked has claimed to be able to read and understand Dutch.

Indeed. I'm a South German, and I'm able to read and understand Dutch texts all in all, though I never learned or studied Dutch.


Question: Is English really so easy for others to learn or perhaps a new "Lingua Franca" could be invented from Low German which could unite all the speakers of the West Germanic languages. And then, maybe, we could find a truly free country in which to speak it.

Hmm... you mean practically something like Dutch (the Low Frankish variant of Low German which became an own standard and literature language) as lingua Franca, because it could be learned easy for English and both. Theoretically a nice idea, but I couldn't think really of a practical possibility of replacing English as world language by Low German...

Dr. Solar Wolff
Saturday, December 20th, 2003, 08:42 AM
I am happy to use English as a lingua Franca if that is acceptable to everyone else. It seems to me that every Icelander, Swede, Norwegian, Dane, German, Austrian, Dutchman, and Swiss is born knowing English. This seems to me to be a bit too much of a burden on others for my convience. I do think English is a Low German language in every sense of the word, although it has deviated from its continental heritage more than the others. The fact that Dutch is a foreign language for us and for other Low German speakers is something they can understand is the test.

It is said that a person in lowland Scottland can talk to his neighbor in the next village and he to the next going south until finally reaching Southern England. There, "Brot, Butter, Ale and Cheese, Good in Hallifax, Good in Fries" meaning that between Southern England and Friesia, people can understand each other as they go from north to south. From there one can go village to villiage south through Holland, Germany, and into Switzerland or Austria, all with an unbroken chain of communication. This is said to be the longest such chain in the world. Perhaps an even longer chain exists from Sweden to Austria.

There is no doubt that the center of this chain is Low German. Yet, Low German has been neglected since the time of Martin Luther. Even Yiddish claims to have a stronger literary tradition than plain old Low German. But it is this Low German which ties us all together. It seems to me that we should be promoting Low German as a "real language" and promoting its literary tradition whenever it is possible to do so. Further, we should be finding and injecting Low German vocabulary into our everyday speech and writing when it is applicable to do so. Different languages tend to seperate us. What we should be doing is to unite our communication while preserving our local customs and culture.

This is, of course, unless everyone believes English serves this purpose. In my opinion, only non-English native speakers can make this determination. If it serves this purpose, then I will put aside this argument.

Prussian
Wednesday, October 20th, 2004, 10:04 PM
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=23728&stc=1






......a mailing list dedicated to discussion concerning the lowland languages.





"Lowlands languages" are those Germanic languages that developed in the “Lowlands": the low-lying areas adjacent to the North Sea and the Baltic Sea. These are primarily Dutch, Zeelandic (Zeeuws, West Flemish), Frisian, Limburgish and Low Saxon (Low German). Also included are those languages that descended from autochtonous Lowlands languages and are used elsewhere; for example, Afrikaans, Lowlands-based emigrant languages, pidgins and creoles, and also English and Scots. “Lowlands cultures” are those cultures that utilize Lowlands languages or are clearly derived from such cultures.





http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php

Blutwölfin
Monday, January 2nd, 2006, 10:43 AM
Very interesting website with lots of soundfiles of almost every language in the world (amongst others: Old Saxon, Frisian etc.).

Click (http://www.lowlands-l.net/anniversary/index.php?page=a-z)