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János Hunyadi
Wednesday, September 6th, 2006, 08:51 PM
For the Nordicist's: Which European subrace is the most assimable with Nordics?

Siegfried
Wednesday, September 6th, 2006, 08:57 PM
There was a related poll in the past. Here's the link; http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=2385 I wonder if the general opinion has changed. :)

János Hunyadi
Wednesday, September 6th, 2006, 09:00 PM
There was a related poll in the past. Here's the link; http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=2385 I wonder if the general opinion has changed. :)

Yes, and I remember how Von Braun went crazy when more people began to choose the NE European option! :D

Thruthheim
Wednesday, September 6th, 2006, 09:04 PM
I say Cro-magnid, based upon Cro-magnid-Nordic mixes such as Troender and Anglo-Saxon, which seem heavily Nordic to me.

Ragnar Thorsson
Wednesday, September 6th, 2006, 09:05 PM
I did Cromagnid

Mannerheim
Wednesday, September 6th, 2006, 09:10 PM
Baltid should be separated in poll sections to east and west-baltids or just baltid and east-baltid - baltid altered to lappoid admix cause east-baltids differs from west-baltids like negroid from europid.And baltid is cromagnoid btw.

OneEnglishNorman
Wednesday, September 6th, 2006, 09:19 PM
Nordics are already heavily mixed with those other types, it's just that the differing phenotypes do constantly re-emerge.

All this Nordic talk is just an aesthetic preference for blond hair as far as I'm concerned. I see no evidence that Alpinids or Dinarids etc etc are less intelligent or civilised.

For all we know, the original Nordics were rather unintelligent and warlike and this only changed through mixing with the "true" Europeans, the Euro Cro-Magnids.

Lissu
Wednesday, September 6th, 2006, 09:19 PM
Baltid is also CM, or UP, depending on which term is more preferrable.

EDIT: A mod could move this thread to more appropriate subforum? :)

Lissu
Wednesday, September 6th, 2006, 09:29 PM
Baltid should be separated in poll sections to east and west-baltids or just baltid and east-baltid - baltid altered to lappoid admix cause east-baltids differs from west-baltids like negroid from europid.And baltid is cromagnoid btw.But East-Baltid often creates a nice, rather paedomorphic blend with Nordid ;)

Lissu
Wednesday, September 6th, 2006, 09:31 PM
I say Cro-magnid, based upon Cro-magnid-Nordic mixes such as Troender and Anglo-Saxon, which seem heavily Nordic to me.Trönder is the most pleasant Nordid phenotype to my eye also besides East Nordid and Nordid-Baltid :)

Mannerheim
Wednesday, September 6th, 2006, 09:33 PM
But East-Baltid often creates a nice, rather paedomorphic blend with Nordid ;)

Agreed. EB + nordids are always very beautiful.

SineNomine
Wednesday, September 6th, 2006, 10:32 PM
Personally, I prefer a Nordid/Med mix as the features are already similar and work well together. However, this could result in a non-blonde phenotype. Hence, I think Cro-Magnid or East-Baltid make more preferrable mixes. Alpinid with Nordid isn't too bad either. This isn't to say the first type of mix shouldn't occur, but it should ideally be rarer in frequency...

Galaico
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 12:05 AM
I think the poll should've been made other way (please no offense Janos), the multiple-choice makes it very unreliable. You can always vote for all types, or for Med and CM for example, so it won't really say much.

It should simply be Auregnacid on one side (Atlantids, Gracilemeds, Pontids, etc.) and UP Crô-Magnon descendants on the other (Faelids, Baltids, Alpinids, etc.)

Another thing is, why are people who are not predominantly Nordid voting? Most of them will obviously vote their type, so the poll will lose all its meaning.

SineNomine
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 12:08 AM
Another thing is, why are people who are not predominantly Nordid voting? Most of them will obviously vote their type, so the poll will lose all its meaning.
Not necessarily. I would prefer mixtures with mediterranids indeed, as I feel the two types combine well due to high compatibility, but for phenotypical reasons would prefer mixtures with CM over that even (preserving blondism). So it has to do with overall aesthetics more than personal influences.

Pervitinist
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 12:12 AM
Another thing is, why are people who are not predominantly Nordid voting? Most of them will obviously vote their type, so the poll will lose all its meaning.

No, I imagined in my mind the ideal nordid physiognomy and then morphed it somehow with any of the other subraces and came to the conclusion that for me at least aesthetically the Nordid-Dinarid mix seems most harmonic while I would say that I am rather some kind of Nordid-Alpinid-(plus, perhaps, a litte Dinarid) mix. Even racists aren't biased all the time;)

ForTheGlory
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 12:26 AM
Agreed. EB + nordids are always very beautiful.

I know...I know :D

János Hunyadi
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 12:36 AM
I think the poll should've been made other way (please no offense Janos), the multiple-choice makes it very unreliable.

That was the way I intended it to be. But unfortunately, I'm unable to change the poll myself.

Could a Mod please change this to a "single option" poll.

Thanks! :thumbup

Oswiu
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 12:37 AM
Of all Nordid mixes, I must say I prefer the Keltic. It looks very elegant to me. So I voted Dinarid [which I understand to be the necessary extra ingredient here].

But is it not possible that a fair few Keltics are the result of a Littorid blend? Would make sense for the Irish ones.

Glynd Eastŵd
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 12:37 AM
Another thing is, why are people who are not predominantly Nordid voting? Most of them will obviously vote their type, so the poll will lose all its meaning.

Well, I didn't, at least. I voted for Cromagnid as being the most assimable. The results of such mixtures are usually quite asthetically pleasing. Nordids can look a little too scrawny and elegant, sometimes bordering on the feminine side, but admixture with Cromagnids can even things out, making the Nordids look more masculine and strong. You end up with handsome types such as Anglo-Saxon, Troender or Faelid.

Mixture with Baltids on a low level can also look nice, especially in Nordid women. They end up with sweeter features which appeals more to me. Gracile-Mediterranids would be the easiest to assimilate in terms of facial morphology but you would lose the Nordid pigmentation. You'd probably end up with more Atlantids (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). ;)

But in an ideal situation there wouldn't be any admixture. Nordids should breed with Nordids.

SineNomine
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 12:49 AM
Well, I didn't, at least. I voted for Cromagnid as being the most assimable. The results of such mixtures are usually quite asthetically pleasing. Nordids can look a little too scrawny and elegant, sometimes bordering on the feminine side, but admixture with Cromagnids can even things out, making the Nordids look more masculine and strong. You end up with handsome types such as Anglo-Saxon, Troender or Faelid.
Indeed. It adds a more masculine edge to them. Not that having feminine, gracile features is undesirable at all though.


Mixture with Baltids on a low level can also look nice, especially in Nordid women. They end up with sweeter features which appeals more to me. Gracile-Mediterranids would be the easiest to assimilate in terms of facial morphology but you would lose the Nordid pigmentation. You'd probably end up with more Atlantids (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). ;)
I personally think Med/Nordid mixes would be highly attractive, especially if the resulting mix ended up adopting a nordid phenotype with regard to eye/hair colour. Mixture with Baltids almost always results in extremely attractive types.


But in an ideal situation there wouldn't be any admixture. Nordids should breed with Nordids.
True, it would be ideal if they did in the majority of cases.

Bridie
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 12:57 AM
But in an ideal situation there wouldn't be any admixture. Nordids should breed with Nordids.
I guess you're right, but reading those sorts of things always makes me feel shitty.... considering that my husband (and the father of my children of course) is apparently Atlanto-Med + Dinarid. I'm Skandonordid (with Troender influence) according to Agrippa.

So I will vote for 2, Atlantid + Med. :) This combo with Nordid makes beautiful babies - believe me!!! :D :thumbup :thumbup

SineNomine
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 01:02 AM
Some nordid mixtures with other europids are definitely good Bridie. However, in the majority of situations I think it's best Nordid only mixes with Nordid. That doesn't mean this should be the case exclusively.

I like how it occured in the old days - mostly commoners stuck to their own kind, yet the urban-dwelling nobles and mercantile elites bred with other europids out of their own type. It is ideal as it keeps a majority pure race and a minority of possibly desirable admixtures.

Jäger
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 08:42 AM
I voted Cro-Magnon. I considered myself a nordicist a while back ago, but I think I am actually a fealidcist :P :D

Generally all true northern types could mix, their specializations are similar, with minor differences which don't come out much in modern life.
North-Atlantid could be considererd a Nordic type.

The nordid-dinarid mix seems to have produced some of the greates germans though (so cheers to Bridie :D )

Generally is Dinarid preferable over Alpinid and Med if you ask me, but should have no exess either.

Pervitinist
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 09:45 AM
The nordid-dinarid mix seems to have produced some of the greates germans though (so cheers to Bridie :D )
Generally is Dinarid preferable over Alpinid and Med if you ask me, but should have no exess either.

Exactly. Look at my Avatar, Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel, one of the greatest philosophers of all time who is Nordid-Dinarid! ;)

Maidz
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 10:17 AM
For all we know, the original Nordics were rather unintelligent and warlike and this only changed through mixing with the "true" Europeans, the Euro Cro-Magnids.

If you are thinkin' of the vikings, they were brutal es, but the were also travelers and merchants. THey are unlucky to be compared with "savaging orcs" or brutal slayers.

Bridie
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 01:38 PM
OMG! :-O I have just finished reading through most of that old thread that Seigfried linked to, and I've got to say that I'm very surprised that those sorts of "arguments" used to occur here on Skadi..... "who is more white", "who decides who is white and who's not", "Colin Farrell is not white" (!!!), "which are the more valuable European sub-races". :2BlahBlah

Thank God Skadi has evolved since then to become a more reasonable and intelligent forum!!

For the record, I think that all European Europid sub-races have great value :thumbup and it would be very sad to see Europe become a big melting pot of sub-racial types, therefore losing distinctions between Nordids, Atlantids, Baltids, Meds, Dinarids etc etc. As a "post-colonial" ;) I think it's great that if I were to ever travel around Europe, different areas have differing, unique populations that can be distinguished from other areas. And I hope it stays this way. So considering this, I think that it's preferable for people to inter-breed with people that are native to the same area in Europe as themselves, or their own racial sub-type.... and in this sense the only ones who should really inter-breed with Nordids (to address the question here) should be other Nordids in any great quantity, otherwise the Nordid sub-race could eventually be lost. However, to be fair, a person who's Nordid + some other Euro Europid sub-race, would not necessarily, in my opinion, be inferior in any way to someone who's just plain Nordid (or some other Euro Europid sub-race).

Furthermore, Agrippa has me convinced that "progressiveness" is to be valued more than pigmentation ;) when it comes to the attainment of higher culture.... so this could be a consideration if inter-breeding would occur between any Euro Europid racial sub-types (not just Nordids). :D

Thruthheim
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 02:35 PM
I agree with you Bridie, About the Nordids with Nordids, Well, I wouldn't limit freedom to just that, but the General Nordish related types mixing wouldn't be a problem for me.
But I won't follow this thought politically in any real measure, as It's adding to an already hotbed of so called controversial views in my repertoire!
In this scenario, it's just idealism, in the end, we have to just hope for the best.

SineNomine
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 04:46 PM
I agree with both Bridie and Truthheim. In the majority of cases no inter-breeding should occur. However, a minority of inter-breeding with other europid types is ideal. Like I said, it's similar to the old European way of doing things - the elite being more diverse than the purer common folk.

Also agree on the fact that it is controversial Truthheim. The best one could openly hope to advocate is to say that whites should stick to whites, and even then they would be labelled as "racists." :thumbdown

OneEnglishNorman
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 06:40 PM
It's all really a beauty contest though. Even someone with a totally Nordid phenotype will have as many Cro-Magnid ancestors as Nordids.

Personally, I think that Dinarids have big noses and cheese wedge skulls.

Alpines look like hairy children with stumpy legs.

Baltids look like blond children with food poisoning.

Even Cordeds have heads which look like Pringle tubes.

But whatever... I suppose mixing is good to iron out the bad bits. As long as Europeans stick to their own, with individual choices this way or that way, a good selection of shapes and colours will permanently prevail.

OdinThor
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 07:19 PM
If it doesnt effect pigmentation (eye colour, skin colour) then it is Dinaric and unreduced Cromagnid.

A northern impression has to be preserved and is critical.

Glenlivet
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 08:21 PM
Yes! That is what it is really about, although morphology and colouring are important too. Ordinary people think about beauty, I agree with that.

I don't even trust the opinions (especially if they are extreme) about what is progressive, beautiful etc., of people I have not seen. It is easy to type away on the net. It has happened too many times that some of these people are practically deformed. One of these people in forums like Skadi, looked as if he had Downs syndrome.

Atlanto-med/Morfrain Encilgar (an old Skadi member knowledgeable in anthropology) said the differences between the robust and gracile Nordids is only adaptation to climate. She told me in private. She may have written about the subject in some threads too. I will try to look for those threads. Both the narrow and broad-faced variants are therefore Northern Europeoid. Keep in mind that Coon later supported Boyd's division and not that Nordids are from Mediterranids and the UP is separate.

EUROPE
Northwest European
Scandanavia, N. German, Netherlands, United Kingdom

Northeast European
Poland, Russia, most of Siberia

Mediterranean
peoples from both sides of Mediterranean from Tangiers to the Dardanelles, including Arabia, Turkey, Iran

Alpine
France, S. Germany, Switzerland, N. Italy, Balkans

Lapp
arctic Scandinavia and Finland

http://entomology.ucdavis.edu/courses/hde19/lecture6.html

Later works (including Coon) have shown that most of the Dinarid and Armenoid planoccipitals are not so genetically. It is because of the practise of cradling in the Balkans, the Near East and Caucasus. So Taurids are probably Mediterranid-derived southern Europeoids. Their children of these people who have not been cradled are mesocephalic or dolichocephalic. This may explain why Dinarid and Armenoid are not included in the division by Goldsby, Coon and Dobzhanski. Alpine brachycephaly in Central Europe, is genetic, on the other hand. But the same populations in Central Europe who were once long headed have become brachycephalised and from the early 20th century and onwards longer headed, once again. It goes back and forth and no one knows why.

What types are more beautiful to you?


It's all really a beauty contest though. Even someone with a totally Nordid phenotype will have as many Cro-Magnid ancestors as Nordids.

OneEnglishNorman
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 09:09 PM
What types are more beautiful to you?

No particular order, N. Atlantid, Halstatt/Faelid, Anglo-Saxon, Keltic-Brunn. IMO very fair skin is more critical than light hair/eyes.

Also time considerations; Kirsten Dunst (for example) may be very beautiful now, but she will not age as well as a slender person. Especially true for Alpines and Brunns, they look very endearing during youth, but not so at a later stage. Of course this is generalising.

Glenlivet
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 09:33 PM
No particular order, N. Atlantid, Halstatt/Faelid, Anglo-Saxon, Keltic-Brunn. IMO very fair skin is more critical than light hair/eyes.

The ideals are not the same for men and women though. Are they?

What about Trönder and East-Nordid?

I think women like Nord-Atlantid (tall, dark and handsome?) looking men and men seem to like Faelid and Brünn women. This pairing was very common in classic Hollywood films. I have noticed that there are certain traits women dislike, very leptosomatic (women say skinny), red haired (it is like a curse, it is simply odd and only acceptable for women to have) and short men. Short, fat and bald is not much better (if not worse). Just think of the typical stereotype we have of a Bavarian or central Frenchman, and compare them with the James Bond (eg Pierce Brosnan or James Denton from Desperate Housewifes) figure. The answer is simple.

You may like the non-Germanic derived types of the British Isles if you prefer very fair skin over light hair and eyes. Light hair is more common among children and the youth. There are more adults with light eyes than light hair in Northwestern Europe (particularly the British Isles). The combination light hair and dark eyes is more common in Northeastern Europe (eg Poland).


Also time considerations; Kirsten Dunst (for example) may be very beautiful now, but she will not age as well as a slender person. Especially true for Alpines and Brunns, they look very endearing during youth, but not so at a later stage. Of course this is generalising.

I think Kirsten Dunst look Borreby, rather than Brünn.

I also agree that most Alpinid women are cute/paedomorphic. They don't look as elegant (if at all) in old age. I would compare them with East Asians.

One should be realistic though. Very sharp-featured women look manly. This kind of woman look even uglier without blondism. The blondism may distract you from the ugly facial features. A woman should remind you of your mother, not yourself or your father. Not many men will find these women attractive regardless if someone called them progressive in an internet forum, or even a book.

OneEnglishNorman
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 09:46 PM
What about Trönder and East-Nordid?

I have not seen enough to make a judgement.


I think women like Nord-Atlantid (tall, dark and handsome?) looking men and men seem to like Faelid and Brünn women. This pairing was very common in classic Hollywood films. There are certain traits women dislike, very leptosomatic, red haired and short men.

Red hair works for women but not for men. So that balances things out :)

N-Atlantids tend to be tall... I can see that tall men like short(er) women and vice versa. But a tall N-Atlantid / Nordid woman with a small Brunn man would surely be less likely.



I think Kirsten Dunst look Borreby, rather than Brünn.

From memory she was Baltid. I agree, if you remember that Brunn-Troender Welsh couple.

When the Brunn woman is 50 she will really be showing her age... jowelly, short legs struggling to keep pace, fat waist, etc.

Whereas the Troender man is arguably into his craggy-faced prime at 50 and upwards.



One should be realistic though. Very sharp-featured women look manly. This kind of woman look even uglier without blondism. The blondism may distract you from the ugly facial features. A woman should remind you of your mother, not yourself or your father. Not many men will find these women attractive regardless if someone called them progressive in an internet forum, or even a book.

Always a balancing act... "roundness" of all features is important female trait. Too rounded-out is frumpy, too slender is boyish.

On the broader point of abstract theories I agree.

SineNomine
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 10:11 PM
To me the Halstatt and East Nordid are perhaps the most beautiful in their pure forms, as is the Tronder. Of the CM, the Faelid would be the fairest, and of the more distant types, the North Atlantid. I see no reason why these types cannot exhibit beauty in both male and female form, as they all have traits that could be seen as attractive in both genders. The Baltid only becomes attractive after an admixture with a Nordid in my view; on its own it is unappealing.

Of the non-Nordid types, the Pontid has some very beautiful characteristics, and would probably create gorgeous female admixtures, whilst the Dinarid would create attractive male admixtures. This would be all the more so if in both cases blondism was maintained. North Atlantid mixed with Brunn seems to create a pulchritudinous phenotype (having Lucy Lawless in mind). That said, it is all theoretical. It may well work out differently in reality.

I agree that in all cases red hair is best on the female specimens.

Mannerheim
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 10:16 PM
The Baltid only becomes attractive after an admixture with a Nordid in my view; on its own it is unappealing.

I guess this is the official armenoid base.

SineNomine
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 10:19 PM
I guess this is the official armenoid base.
Is it? How so?

Mannerheim
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 10:25 PM
Is it? How so?


Well.. ive just noticed that many armenoids see baltid types rather unattractive and maybe its good like that,natural instinct.

SineNomine
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 10:28 PM
Well.. ive just noticed that many armenoids see baltid types rather unattractive and maybe its good like that,natural instinct.
Except I am not even Armenoid... I simply think the type looks better when mixed with Nordid.

Pervitinist
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 10:29 PM
Well.. ive just noticed that many armenoids see baltid types rather unattractive and maybe its good like that,natural instinct.

So you conclude that anybody who doesn't find baltids attractive must be armenoid? Interesting theory ...:chinrub

Hohenheim
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 10:36 PM
Well.. ive just noticed that many armenoids see baltid types rather unattractive and maybe its good like that,natural instinct.

It maybe is an instinct, but this type? I don't know? I like Baltid women very much, and my favorit is East-Baltid, but I think it has more to do with... your family or the people you've grown up with. I can't explain it the proper way, but... for example I think I like baltids because my mother and many women in my family are east-baltids. You know.. You grow up with it, get used to this type of face, and that's why you like it. That's my opinion.

Mannerheim
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 10:48 PM
So you conclude that anybody who doesn't find baltids attractive must be armenoid? Interesting theory ...:chinrub

No.I meant mainly personal experiences.I have seen how some ugly armenoid ape muslims in my school (years ago) used to degrade or lower people who were baltids(now when i remember) - even some girls who were normal looking so i presume that baltid type is very unattractive to armenoid eyes cause baltid feautures are so contradiction to their own.

Baltid type is totally different compared to armenoid type so both types feel automatically even slight disgust/wondering to each other.

SineNomine
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 10:55 PM
Baltid type is totally different compared to armenoid type so both types feel automatically even slight disgust/wondering to each other.
Wouldn't this apply then to Dinarids as well? Or any other subtype which has features opposite to the Baltid?

The Baltid doesn't even cause slight disgust to me personally. I am simply ambivalent toward it. Trying to imply I am Armenid, contrary to even your own classification, simply because of this is silly. Most of my family has Faelid or Borreby traits, hence Baltid does not seem alien to me at all.

Mannerheim
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 11:00 PM
Wouldn't this apply then to Dinarids as well? Or any other subtype which has features opposite to the Baltid?

The Baltid doesn't even cause slight disgust to me personally. I am simply ambivalent toward it.

Well. i guess yes but hope no.

What baltid type you are ambivalent(?) to - west-baltid,east-baltid or just baltid ?

SineNomine
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 11:01 PM
Well. i guess yes but hope no.

What baltid type you are ambivalent(?) to - west-baltid,east-baltid or just baltid ?
The East Baltid mostly.

Mannerheim
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 11:11 PM
The East Baltid mostly.


I can say this with pure conscience cause i myself belong halves to baltid type.I hate how the east-baltids(pure EB) look.

East-baltids looks rather grotesque to my eyes but baltid and west-baltids looks very great and very normal europid cro-magnoid types.East-baltids thenagain have lappoid admix what makes them look rather strange.

Baltid reputation have been spoiled at least partly cause of EB:s and now many people (interested in anthro) think that baltid means automatically same as east-baltid what is totally false.

SineNomine
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 11:13 PM
I can say this with pure conscience cause i myself belong halves to baltid type.I hate how the east-baltids(pure EB) look.

East-baltids looks rather grotesque to my eyes but baltid and west-baltids looks very great and very normal europid cro-magnoid types.East-baltids thenagain have lappoid admix what makes them look rather strange.

Baltid reputation have been spoiled at least partly cause of EB:s and now many people (interested in anthro) think that baltid means automatically same as east-baltid what is totally false.
Perhaps I should have been more specific then. :) The non-EB's are attractive types (still not as much as the Halstatt and East Nordid to me) in and of themselves. I don't like pure EB's though - they only look great if mixed with nordid. So I guess we agree.

Hohenheim
Thursday, September 7th, 2006, 11:20 PM
Perhaps I should have been more specific then. :) The non-EB's are attractive types (still not as much as the Halstatt and East Nordid to me) in and of themselves. I don't like pure EB's though - they only look great if mixed with nordid. So I guess we agree.

Well... I also don't like pure EB, but a nice would be an EB - Halstatt combination ;)

RedJack
Friday, September 8th, 2006, 01:40 AM
I say Cro-magnid, based upon Cro-magnid-Nordic mixes such as Troender and Anglo-Saxon, which seem heavily Nordic to me.

My thoughts exactly. :thumbup

Thusnelda
Friday, September 8th, 2006, 01:54 PM
A nordid-alpinid mixed person is called "subnordic", am I right? ;)

Glenlivet
Friday, September 8th, 2006, 04:32 PM
Description of Europid Races

http://www.geocities.com/dienekesp4/europids/

Take a look at Baltic.

I'm not sure, what is Baltid? East-Baltid, no, although such combinations are common because of the proximity Finland has to Scandinavia (more so in Norway and Sweden than Denmark). Baltic of Biasutti is basically the same as the East-Baltid of Lundman and other physical anthropologist who adopted the term, which was first coined by Rolf Nordensteng.

I voted Cro-Magnids (I assume you mean Faelid, which some physical anthropologists have considered Nordid), Atlantid/Pontids and Dinarics (may result in some disharmonius features though).

Lundman (1977) said "The Nordid race has several subraces. The most divergent is the Faelish subrace in western Germany and also in the interior of southwestern Norway. The Faelish subrace is broader of face and form (See Figure 2). So is the North-Atlantid subrace (the North-Occidental race of Deniker), which is like the primary type, but has much darker hair."

So the Faelish (Faelid) subrace has more divergent morphology and the North-Atlantid hair colour (I also think skin complexion, paler, and does not tan as well, that is my own observation and not from Lundman though).

RedJack
Friday, September 8th, 2006, 06:04 PM
and the North-Atlantid hair colour (I also think skin complexion, paler, and does not tan as well, that is my own observation and not from Lundman though).

I agree, dark haired people in England tend to be very pale. Probably masked redheads.

Glenlivet
Friday, September 8th, 2006, 07:16 PM
That is what it is all about. They are masked red heads. Western Europeans are more dark haired and red headed and Northern and Eastern Europeans ash blond (Coon, 1965). There is such a tendency. Lundman (1988) also said the Nord-Atlantids are comparatively more red headed.


I agree, dark haired people in England tend to be very pale. Probably masked redheads.

Huzar
Friday, September 8th, 2006, 10:41 PM
If it doesnt effect pigmentation (eye colour, skin colour) then it is Dinaric and unreduced Cromagnid.

A northern impression has to be preserved and is critical.


Agreed. Dinarid-Nordid mix perhaps is the most important mix of Germany.

Glenlivet
Friday, September 8th, 2006, 10:46 PM
All over or certain parts of southern Germany?


Agreed. Dinarid-Nordid mix perhaps is the most important mix of Germany.

Jäger
Friday, September 8th, 2006, 10:55 PM
All over or certain parts of southern Germany?
I don't think he meant predominant with "important".

I agree with Odin though, "A northern impression has to be preserved and is critical."

Huzar
Friday, September 8th, 2006, 10:56 PM
All over or certain parts of southern Germany?


In the parts where these two human types are largely present, and than the fusion is almost inevitable : Bavaria and Austria (i consider Austria, simply a region of Germany), for example.


For central north-Germany, i'm not sure.............Nordid element is very abundant, but the Dinarid not ; Out from its mittel-european habitat, Dinarids tends to disappear rapidly, and toward the plains of north Germany are almost absent, i think. In the north, Nordid is heavlymixed with Cromagnids, and, in minor measure, with Baltids.

Jäger
Friday, September 8th, 2006, 11:09 PM
For central north-Germany, i'm not sure.
I am from North-Bavria, Franconia, which could be considered "Central-Germany", here Nordids are rare, the most common type is simply Faelid, followed by Dinarid and a mix of both. Then again Franconia could be considered a kind of highlands. :)

Landgar
Friday, September 8th, 2006, 11:16 PM
For all we know, the original Nordics were rather unintelligent

I doubt that.



and warlike
Of course, but that's a good trait.






I know...I know :D

(East) Baltids in Bavaria?
Weird...
Are your ancestors maybe Prussian refugees from WW2?






The nordid-dinarid mix seems to have produced some of the greates germans though

That's weird, but true.
Even one of the greatest men, maybe THE greatest man ever - the marvellous hero and Führer of the Germans, Adolf Hitler. :bwhitler

But dinarid Germans often try to exaggerate it - Dinarid admixture was present in many great Germans, but just admixture; they were predominantly Nordid.






i presume that baltid type is very unattractive to armenoid eyes cause baltid feautures are so contradiction to their own.

Baltid type is totally different compared to armenoid type so both types feel automatically even slight disgust/wondering to each other.

Seems to be correct, yes.
As far as i know, this also often applies to Dinarids.
I often heard Dinarids saying about Cro-Magnids that they are square-faced, potato-nosed and have ugly steep foreheads, "like walls".

And i for myself have to say that Dinarids are the most unattractive Europids to my eyes.
Maybe because they are the complete opposite to me - i'm light pigmented, my skull is long, my forehead high and steep and my nose is a big red potato. ;) :D
But Dinarids are dark, have a short skull that looks like it's chopped, their foreheads are low and often very retreating and their noses look like they are supposed to pick out other people's eyes (while Cro-Magnid noses look like they are only supposed to carry the massive forehead).

Like you said, seems to be instinct.
That doesn't mean that Dinarids are bad, it just means that i should avoid it to make children with them. ;)






A nordid-alpinid mixed person is called "subnordic", am I right? ;)

Correct.
See >>HERE (http://www.snpa.skadi.net/rg-sub.htm)<<.






All over or certain parts of southern Germany?

In northern Germany are no Dinarids at all.
Well, except some foreign immigrants and southern Germans, who came up here in the last few years because of jobs.

There are some parts in southern Germany where the people still look like Germans, but most areas i've seen there seemed very "foreign" to me.
The mentality is also very different in the south.






(i consider Austria, simply a region of Germany)

Because it is. ;)






In the north, Nordid is heavlymixed with Cromagnids, and, in minor measure, with Baltids.
Baltids are Cro-Magnids. ;)
But Cro-Magnid admixture is very present here, that's correct.
Here in the northwest it's Dalofaelid and Borreby.
Baltid was only in the East - the highest concentration was in Prussia (i suppose the Baltid elements originate from the old Baltic Prussians), but now they are scattered over whole Germany.

Mannerheim
Friday, September 8th, 2006, 11:56 PM
Seems to be correct, yes.
As far as i know, this also often applies to Dinarids.
I often heard Dinarids saying about Cro-Magnids that they are square-faced, potato-nosed and have ugly steep foreheads, "like walls".

Baltid foreheads are great.They look so noble when beeing so "vigorous" (my translator engine didnt found better word than this one ;) ).


And i for myself have to say that Dinarids are the most unattractive Europids to my eyes.
Maybe because they are the complete opposite to me - i'm light pigmented, my skull is long, my forehead high and steep and my nose is a big red potato. ;) :D

Yes,off course.Preserving the baltid type is as important as preserving menaced panda bear for an example. :)

There are people like you, who thinks wisely, when trying strictly to preserve own sub-racial type and then there are opposite persons who would increase practically with anybody just it is "white" and have 2 legs.Then theres many traitors who ignores totally even this "whitenes" and can mix example with negroids and with armenoids,these people are rather lunatic imo.



But Dinarids are dark, have a short skull that looks like it's chopped, their foreheads are low and often very retreating and their noses look like they are supposed to pick out other people's eyes (while Cro-Magnid noses look like they are only supposed to carry the massive forehead).


LOL :D I better be quiet concerning this or else all dinarids in skadi will internetmurder me.

I have rather neutral opinion to this matter cause i have neutral nose,not concave,not convex but straight aka normal :D No,no just a joke,i think all nose types are richness and beautiful on its own ways (armenoid and negroid noses not included).


Like you said, seems to be instinct.
That doesn't mean that Dinarids are bad, it just means that i should avoid it to make children with them. ;)


Yes

Huzar
Saturday, September 9th, 2006, 12:00 AM
I
That's weird, but true.


Why would be "weird" ? Do you find strange Dinarids being very dynamic and able ?





I often heard Dinarids saying about Cro-Magnids that they are square-faced, potato-nosed and have ugly steep foreheads, "like walls".
And i for myself have to say that Dinarids are the most unattractive Europids to my eyes.
Maybe because they are the complete opposite to me - i'm light pigmented, my skull is long, my forehead high and steep and my nose is a big red potato. ;) :D


Hmm........i've never heard this theory of "Baltids vs. Dinarids", but it makes somewhat sense, i have to admit.



But Dinarids are dark, have a short skull that looks like it's chopped, their foreheads are low and often very retreating and their noses look like they are supposed to pick out other people's eyes (while Cro-Magnid noses look like they are only supposed to carry the massive forehead).



First, Dinarids aren't that dark (only intermediate in pigmentation), second some anthropologists conjectured a relation between Unreduced Cromagnid and Dinarid. (Dinarid would be an evolution of central European Brachicephalized Cromagnid, mixed with Atlantomed. strains). Third, i think dinarid type is highly compatible with nordid one. Even more than Baltid. My opinion.






There are some parts in southern Germany where the people still look like Germans, but most areas i've seen there seemed very "foreign" to me.
The mentality is also very different in the south.


It's interesting. What you mean when you say "still look like germans" ? What's the typical german in your conception ? (well, i imagine the areas you find foreign are the most dinarid ones...;) ).

Besides, could you explain me (i'm a foreigner like you know) what's exactly this difference between north and south Germany ?

Landgar
Saturday, September 9th, 2006, 02:01 AM
Why would be "weird" ? Do you find strange Dinarids being very dynamic and able ?
I just meant that it's interesting that many important Germans had a Dinaroid admixture.




It's interesting. What you mean when you say "still look like germans" ?
When they wouldn't look out of place here in northern Germany.




What's the typical german in your conception ?
Hard to explain...




Besides, could you explain me (i'm a foreigner like you know) what's exactly this difference between north and south Germany ?
There are many...
And hard to find the right words for everything in English.
Southern Germans are for example more "choleric" than northern Germans.
They are also more... hmmmm... "friendly", "dearly" (right word?) and "happy".

Interesting are also their towns and villages.
Everything so small and "close"...
The stairs, the streets, especially the pavement...
I've nearly got claustrophobia there.:P
The houses are very close together - even if there is enough place to build a town five times as big with enough place between the houses, everything is compressed on a single point.
They are more sociable, so they like to close ranks.



That's just few of the many small differences.
Don't get me wrong, i'm not hostile to southern Germans (i know it sounds like that sometimes) and i don't want to declare them as "non-Germans".
Of course, both contributed their part to what is Germany today (okay, today Germany is dead, but that's another story ;)) and are therefore German.
"German" is (like "English" or "French" for example) a linguistically/culturally term after all, not a racially.

It's rather something like the "rivalry" between two brothers.
This rivalry was always there - some people understate it, others exaggerate it (maybe i do sometimes ;)).

Glenlivet
Saturday, September 9th, 2006, 02:18 AM
Very interesting observation. Don't you think Catholicism play a role in the division between north and south? You have just described the sociable pyknomorph south German Alpine of older anthropology works.

"Furthermore, through the processes of sifting and selection these changes have brought about a rearrangement of social strata in Europe. They are especially important in this way, so that apparently in part constitutional hereditary factors are often involved here. These can affect the hereditary psychological character of peoples.

We can present as an example just two contrasting counter-types, which are not only simply racial in origin, and still less only phenotypically environmentally conditioned. This is the contrast between the cool, hyper-leptosome, still near-sinewy, English aristocrat (predominantly Nordic, but still somewhat North-Atlantid or even Litoral mixed, in race) and the industrious, hypomanic, often aesthetic, south German provincial inhabitant."

Bertil Lundman, The Races and Peoples of Europe, 1977.

Says it all?



The houses are very close together - even if there is enough place to build a town five times as big with enough place between the houses, everything is compressed on a single point.
They are more sociable, so they like to close ranks.

Nicola_Canadian
Saturday, September 9th, 2006, 02:34 AM
Later works (including Coon) have shown that most of the Dinarid and Armenoid planoccipitals are not so genetically. It is because of the practise of cradling in the Balkans, the Near East and Caucasus. So Taurids are probably Mediterranid-derived southern Europeoids. Their children of these people who have not been cradled are mesocephalic or dolichocephalic. This may explain why Dinarid and Armenoid are not included in the division by Goldsby, Coon and Dobzhanski.

Nasty little cradles! It's all their fault!!! :)
But seriously could you comment more on that?

Glenlivet
Saturday, September 9th, 2006, 02:45 AM
I can give a quote. :) Mediterranid-derived is the only origin which I think would make sense. That is mainly my own conclusion (because of geography, but also the traits without planoccipitalism and the hooked nose, Coon and Hooton that is is also because of the pressue from the back of the head). We do need sources to back up this claim.

I also remember that Lundman spoke of Dinarid origins from Pontid (I need to find that passage). I have learnt that Lundman is not the most reliable source though.

Here is what Coon had to say.

"As if race were not enough, members of the various minorities enhance their peculiarities through artifice. These include some actual alterations of the human physique, intentional or otherwise. If you will look at the back of the head of an old-country Lebanese,-- and its usual baldness will be of help--you will see that it is flat, in a vertical plane. This flatness also appears to bring the vault to a peak, and to tilt the axis of the ears so that they converge toward the lobes. When your victim turns in profile you will see that the distance from earhole to the back of the head is quite short, while that from the earhole to the nose is normal. The nose may often appear to owe some of its projection to the pressure from behind.

This type of head form is produced by cradling the very young. The mother or her helpers swaddle the infant and tie it in a cradle in such a fashion that the shoulders are held down, and while the head is free to move within these limitations, it naturally rests on the back instead of the side. The pillow is hard. The mother can carry this cradle on her back while walking, leaving her hands free to spin wool as she goes. She can set the cradle down on the side of a field, or even hang it from a branch, and her baby is safe while she works. She thus solves the baby-sitter problem by giving her child a flat head. Flat heads of this kind are considered beautiful, and women also mold the baby's skull with their fingers, pressing the forehead and pinching up the nose.

The result is the so-called Armenoid or Dinaric type of head and face, which anthropologists for decades considered the special property of a separate race. Lebanese, Syrians, Druzes, Armenians, Assyrians, some Kurds, Gilakis, Turkomans, Kirghiz, and probably others all do this, and thus exaggerate the physical differences between themselves and the other peoples of the Middle East."

Carleton S. Coon, Caravan: The Story of the Middle East, Henry Holt, 1951.

Coon said the same about the Balkans in The Living Races of Man. I cannot bother find the quote now. I may do so later.


Nasty little cradles! It's all their fault!!! :)
But seriously could you comment more on that?

Nicola_Canadian
Saturday, September 9th, 2006, 02:54 AM
Flat heads of this kind are considered beautiful, and women also mold the baby's skull with their fingers, pressing the forehead and pinching up the nose.



Cruel mothers of eugenics

Landgar
Saturday, September 9th, 2006, 03:06 AM
Don't you think Catholicism play a role in the division between north and south?

I don't think that this makes any noticable difference.




You have just described the sociable pyknomorph south German Alpine of older anthropology works.

"Furthermore, through the processes of sifting and selection these changes have brought about a rearrangement of social strata in Europe. They are especially important in this way, so that apparently in part constitutional hereditary factors are often involved here. These can affect the hereditary psychological character of peoples.

We can present as an example just two contrasting counter-types, which are not only simply racial in origin, and still less only phenotypically environmentally conditioned. This is the contrast between the cool, hyper-leptosome, still near-sinewy, English aristocrat (predominantly Nordic, but still somewhat North-Atlantid or even Litoral mixed, in race) and the industrious, hypomanic, often aesthetic, south German provincial inhabitant."

Bertil Lundman, The Races and Peoples of Europe, 1977.

Says it all?
Says it all, indeed.

Huzar
Saturday, September 9th, 2006, 03:32 AM
I can give a quote. :) Mediterranid-derived is the only origin which I think would make sense. That is mainly my own conclusion (because of geography, but also the traits without planoccipitalism and the hooked nose, Coon and Hooton that is is also because of the pressue from the back of the head). We do need sources to back up this claim.
.

I'm not so sure about the mediterranid derivation. I attempt an alternative theory : Perhaps dinarid type has anything to do neither with mediterranids, neither with Armenids. Simply they're an autoctonous independent race...................our error is being too observant of the tripartite scheme of first anthropologists (only three major races :Nordids, Meds, Alpinids, and all derives from them). It's possible that independent types were born.....................

Count Armfelt
Saturday, September 9th, 2006, 11:55 AM
Cro-Magnids and Baltids.

visigodo
Saturday, September 9th, 2006, 05:39 PM
First I would like to say that I consider myself Europeist, not Nordicist but perhaps would be interesting for some Skadi members to have more opinions about this matter.

I suppose is interesting to start with a clear Nordicist point of view as McCulloch has. This is what he thinks.

“Racial intermixture is a complex subject, and its effects vary depending on the genetic distance (degree of racial difference) and numerical proportions of the races involved in the mixture. Due to he highly recessive nature of many of its traits, the Nordish race is especially vulnerable to the negating effects of intermixture. The ability of the Nordish race to assimilate other races through intermixture is very limited. Some non-Nordish races are more assimilable than others. Those more closely related to the Nordish race are more assimilable that those more distantly related. Those with a lesser degree of racial difference from the Nordish race are more assimilable than those more distantly related. Those with a lesser degree of racial difference from the Nordish race are more assimilable than those with greater degree. Those whose genes are more compatible with Nordish genes are more assimilated by a smaller proportion ratio of Nordians than those who are less assimilable. But assimilation has its unavoidable costs. Even a very dilute degree of intermixture has its effects, and these tend to be felt the most strongly where it hurts the race the most, in the most racially distinct elements, the core or heart of the race.
As a rule, the Ladogan, Alpine and Dinaric races can be regarded as the most assimilable by the Nordish race. Most of the peripheral Nordish types are in fact already a stabilized blend resulting from the mixture of central Nordish types with these races in a ratio of two to one in the Nordish favour. A five to one ratio intermixture of central Nordians with these races would be the equivalent of a one to one ratio mixture of peripheral with central Nordish types, with a resulting type about midway between the two. A six to one ratio mixture between central Nordians and these races would be required for the result of favour the central Nordish type. The other Caucasoid races require a greater ratio of Nordians to non-Nordians for successful assimilation by the Nordish race, and the different non-Caucasoid subspecies require a much greater ratio. (In the case of Congoids, to take the most extreme case, the required ratio of Nordians is so high it is difficult to calculate). Their traits are often so discordant and incompatible with Nordish traits, and so dominant, that they, and their effects, persist even in very dilute mixture with Nordians, significantly altering, diminishing and even negating more recessive Nordish traits, especially the more distinct ones. There are anomalies and individual exceptions to this rule. There are individuals who are mixtures of Nordish with a different subspecies (particularly some tribes of North American Indians) in only a three to one ratio who are essentially Nordish (We can assume that the 75% Nordish side of their ancestry was very distinctly Nordish.) But while this demonstrates that racially mixed individuals should be racially classified on an individual basis, it is also true that when calculating the effects of intermixture on an entire population it is the rule, not the exceptions, the norm, not the deviations, that should be given primary consideration. By this rule, the non-Nordish races other that the Ladogan, Alpine and Dinaric should be classified as unassimilable”.


J. Grafz, german anthropologist from the III Reich times wrote in one of the works he did " As racial favorable mixtures it is necessary to consider to be the Nordic-Faelid and the Nordic-Dinarid and as unfavorable, the Nordic-Alpine, the Nordid-East-Baltid and the Nordic-Mediterranean”.

But for example Alfred Rosemberg quite “nordicist” aswell wrote:

“A study that investigates deeper will be able to recognize close to the forces in struggle of the germanism and the chaos of the peoples, the action lines, of other aboriginal or infiltrated races of Europe. It will estimate to the Mediterranean race, of major formal authority, colder, but not too much removed from the Germanic values, and will register here more than one mixture (If it does not appear as a mass phenomenon) with the Nordic not necessarily as a loss, but often as an enrichment of the soul. It will recognize to the dinaric race, with minor cultural creativity, but embellished with the strongest temperament..... ”. Rosemberg will recognize, for example, when having studied the formation of Rome that Rome: " ... It is the foundation of a wave of Nordic peoples that long before the Germanics and the Gauls was spilt in the valley of the south of the Alps, broke the authority of the Etruscans, a pre-Asiatic race, and presumably joined in marriage with trunks of the Mediterranean, still pure race, generating a preponderantly Nordic character with the major firmness and tenacity, in which they joined dominion, and heroism with intelligent mind andferreousenergy”.

Interesting also to comment what Julius Evola, who without being an anthropologist wrote several books on the racial question and he was the one that inspired the fascist doctrine of the race in Italy. For Evola the matter about the favorable and unfavorable mixtures is the following one. The most valid element in the Italian compound is the Nordic-Aryan, which from his point of view he has proposed to call Aryan-Roman, this Aryan-Roman type must to be recounts to the Mediterranean type understood as the brunette branch of medium stature basic trunk of the Nordic –Aryan race (in his conception), separated from the same one probably by "paravariation". This type is dolychocephal with elongated and narrow face.Has tall to medium stature and with broad backs in the men. The members are well proportionate. It is thin, energetic, dolychocephal (probably less than the properly Nordic type). His hairs are brown; unlike any less pure Mediterranean types, his hairs are not curled but waved. The lips are thin and the eyebrows are not thick. The nose is thin and elongated, straight or lightly aquiline. The lower jaw is developed, though less pronounced than in the Nordic type; it expresses an active and prompt type ready for the assault.The eyes can be brown-colored, blue or gray. Whereas in the Mediterranean-Italian types with least noble extraction, the look is often anxious, subdued or melancholy, in him the look has precise and determined movements " looks at the face ", has penetrating look. The habit of gesturing (that many people believe an Italian characteristic) in him is strange: certainly his gestures are expressive but it does not have anything impulsive or disordered; they are gestures that, far from indicates the predominance of the instinctive part of himself are the same prolongation of a conscious thought. His capacities of reaction are major that in the Nordic type of the same origin, as well as his dynamism (which nevertheless remains always lucid and controlled, not with vulgar exuberance). In my opinion phenotypically we can consider this type our Nordomediterranid or Atlantid type.

The most unfavorable mixtures, which an instinct shouldavoid gradually, would be those of the Aryan-Roman type especially with the African-Mediterranean one (presents especially in the southern Italy and result of mixed elements comming from oriental and african origin).


Not too desirable it would be nevertheless also the mixture of the Aryo-Roman type with the Alpine race that can be found in Italy. But more for reasons the “race of the soul” that not simply anthropologic. He understand as Alpine race the one who predominates in the ethnic mixture that has given his character to the French present civilization and that can also be found in the south Germany. Nevertheless, in such regions, on having been mixed by the Nordic race, his negative influence is very much minor. In Italy until a more determined racial and ethical conscience does not reinforce the Aryan-Roman nucleus, the introduction of this Alpine blood can be dangerous. Generally Evola consider the mixture of the Aryo-Roman race with brachycephals as Alpinids and East-Baltids unfavorable. Good mixtures are those of the Aryan-Roman race with the Aryan-Germanic one, with the Nordic in strict sense, with the Dinarid and with the Dalofaelid.


As for the protection of the top racial nucleus in Italy, he wrote that the Aryan - Roman type, and to the blends declared unfavorable, always it is necessary to have present what has been said before that the masculine type is the real carrier of the race. The favorable mentioned blends they refer to those where the male is of Aryan - Roman race; if she is the woman, to a normal level a reduction of the type will happen.

More reasonable sounds to me Amaudruz point of view as he consider the mixtures between Nordids and other sub-races not unfavorable, for example he wrote: “The Prussians, whose quality of mixovariation between Nordics and Osteuropids, confirmed by the blood groups, it has showed his military value, his tenacity and his cultural contribution (examples: Kant and Schopenhauer). The Germans from the south, comming from Nordics and Alpines mostly are known by his nice nature and do not present any feature of incompatibility (cultural Example: Goethe, Beethoven, Schubert etc.). The Catalans, Nordic-Mediterraneans, hard-working and proud people, have produced Maillol and Gaudí, among others. As for the Nordic-Dinaric mixtures, very common in certain mountainous zones like the Tirol they have given a population whose strong personality does not need to be demonstrated. Cultural examples (Wagner and Nietzche among others)”.

SineNomine
Saturday, September 9th, 2006, 11:27 PM
Interesting contrast of views you provided visigodo. Personally, I think Amaudruz and Rosemberg are the most correct. I consider CM's (especially Baltids), dinarids and mediterranids (in that order) to be the most assimilable types, though like the former remarked, all have their value. Evola makes useful comments, but they don't seem to possess a cold, scientific edge to them that the others do. His comments seem rather more literary in my opinion. I am more dubious even of comments referring to personality traits of the various admixtures; this seems more cultural than genetic.

You could say I am a Europeist too. Progressivism, for me, within the European subraces on the whole is the key consideration with regard to admixtures.

Nicola_Canadian
Sunday, September 10th, 2006, 08:23 AM
Interesting that most people here consider phenotype more important than the skull shape...

Jäger
Sunday, September 10th, 2006, 08:25 AM
Interesting that most people here consider phenotype more important than the skull shape...
Could you elaborate? I always thought the phenotype determines the skull shape. :|

Nicola_Canadian
Sunday, September 10th, 2006, 08:43 AM
Could you elaborate? I always thought the phenotype determines the skull shape. :|

well, Nordid skull shape is either Corded/East Nordid/Tronderish i.e. high-headed or I'd say "western european" - North Atlantid shape with flat top...

Most people in the western europe who are Nordids are actually "depigmented Meds" i.e. North Atlantids whose skull is totally Medish... BTW, you can meet such head shape not only among Western North Atlantids but also among Eastern so called North Pontids... Obviously they are darker than say Baltids/Cromagnids... The latter though, have different skull than Nordids but are usually very Blond... So the poll shows that most people are actually not really "Nordicists" but rather "Blondesists"... and "North Culturalists"

What I see is that most Skadi members would rather have something in common with this Blond Cromagnid/East Baltid (whose skull has nothing of Nordid) -

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i308/Nicola_Canadian/19.gif

rather than with this very pigmented Med whose skull shape is closer to Nordid

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i308/Nicola_Canadian/indian.jpg

I realise that both of these pics are exaggerations but that's what this poll really shows...

OneEnglishNorman
Sunday, September 10th, 2006, 09:30 AM
well, Nordid skull shape is either Corded/East Nordid/Tronderish i.e. high-headed or I'd say "western european" - North Atlantid shape with flat top...

Most people in the western europe who are Nordids are actually "depigmented Meds" i.e. North Atlantids whose skull is totally Medish...

Most people here consider them borderline Nordids, no? Nordid is usually reserved for Halstatts.



BTW, you can meet such head shape not only among Western North Atlantids but also among Eastern so called North Pontids... Obviously they are darker than say Baltids/Cromagnids...

I am sceptical that Faelids and West-Baltids are lighter than N-Atlantids, in fact the opposite is true, esp. for Baltids. Unless you refer to hair colour. Baltids have dull skin, but are often blond-haired.

SineNomine
Sunday, September 10th, 2006, 11:48 AM
What I see is that most Skadi members would rather have something in common with this Blond Cromagnid/East Baltid (whose skull has nothing of Nordid) -

To me it is skull shape and bone structure that matter most. It is simply that many fear that blondism will become even rarer amongst Nordid admixtures if they mixed with slightly darker Europid subraces, however similar they may be speaking in terms of skull shape. Still, I only consider CM admixtures slightly more preferrable than those with Dinarid or Mediterranid, and none quite as preferrable as Nordids staying pure for the majority of cases.

Glenlivet
Sunday, September 10th, 2006, 12:07 PM
I would think Faelids are both lighter haired and lighter eyed than Nord-Atlantids. No such comparison has been made by anthropologists, as far as I know. Nord-Atlantids have cooler colours, pale skin, cooler, very dark ash, almost black, hair shade (there are exceptions, eg red), if blue eyes dark blue which is cooler, that is the tendency I have seen in England and Ireland. Faelids are ruddier, have rarely ashen hair colour, blue or grey blue eyes.

Very pale complexion (especially without ruddiness) can be quite Mediterranid. It is found outside Northern Europe too.

Nord-Atlantid might not even exist.

"In Ireland, England, and the United States, a very closely similar type, that differs only in that eyes are mixed instead of dark, is sorted out as the residual Nordic-Mediterranean type, on the assumption that the lightening of eye pigmentation is due to admixture with the blond Nordic stock. This may or may not be the correct interpretation. There are virtually no pure dark eyes (medium brown, dark brown, or black) in Ireland, and hence, by sorting criteria, practically no pure Mediterraneans. However, the type, complete with dark eyes and dark hair, seems a little commoner in Britain and the United States."

http://dienekes.angeltowns.net/texts/hootonmed/

So it is not even sure if these so-called Nord-Atlantids are Nordid or partly Nordid. Let us say that to a Scandinavian, North German and I would think also Russian, that someone like Roger Moore is clearly North Europid and Nordid, but it is not as obvious when it comes to Matthew Goode and those like him.




I am sceptical that Faelids and West-Baltids are lighter than N-Atlantids, in fact the opposite is true, esp. for Baltids. Unless you refer to hair colour. Baltids have dull skin, but are often blond-haired.

visigodo
Monday, September 11th, 2006, 06:34 AM
Interesting contrast of views you provided visigodo. Personally, I think Amaudruz and Rosemberg are the most correct. I consider CM's (especially Baltids), dinarids and mediterranids (in that order) to be the most assimilable types, though like the former remarked, all have their value. Evola makes useful comments, but they don't seem to possess a cold, scientific edge to them that the others do. His comments seem rather more literary in my opinion. I am more dubious even of comments referring to personality traits of the various admixtures; this seems more cultural than genetic.

You could say I am a Europeist too. Progressivism, for me, within the European subraces on the whole is the key consideration with regard to admixtures.

Thanks SineNomine.

Regarding Evola certainly he was not anthropoligist but he had some interesting points of view about the racial question. He wrote several books abouth that: Sintesi di Dottrina della Razza, Indirizzi per un'educazione razziale, Tre aspetti del problema ebraico and Il Mito del Sangue. Time ago we had contacts with Marcos Ghio (Argentina) and now the works are also translated to the spanish language. In Il Mito del Sangue he made a summary about the well-known racial theories until then. A very interesting book as introduction to the racial question. In Sintesi di Dottrina della Razza and Indirizzi per un'educazione razziale he develop their interesting race's theory. Most important to me is that he delineates a tripartite typology with his race of the body, the race of the soul (Clauss mostly) and the race of the spirit (his most important contribution).

Good web site to start with Evola if you like (there is something in english):

http://www.juliusevola.it/default.asp

RedJack
Monday, September 11th, 2006, 11:09 PM
I'm dubious about this cradling business, I've seen loads of people in pics and irl who have a flat occiput. I rather doubt that anyone in North America practises cradling these days, so it must be a natural configuration.