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cosmocreator
Friday, December 12th, 2003, 07:32 PM
Ok, my second poll will not be so philosophically deep.

What do you think of graffiti? Take the building in my signature for example. Would it look better with graffiti scrawled all over it?

Scáthach
Friday, December 12th, 2003, 10:01 PM
Ok, my second poll will not be so philosophically deep.

What do you think of graffiti? Take the building in my signature for example. Would it look better with graffiti scrawled all over it?


No and nor would the GPO in Dublin or any building of architectural or historical merit. However, an older building or walls alongside a train track for instance, would look better with artisitic graffiti (a distinction must be made between ''Tony loves Sharon 4eva'' and a mural for instance)
I can't vote since I think it depends on the building in question and the artistic talent involved.

EDIT: Look at these Cosmo; http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=5289
Are they art? Do they show the degeneracy in society or is their subject matter reflecting, for the most part, the degeneracy of human and colonial action? I know what I think.

cosmocreator
Friday, December 12th, 2003, 10:51 PM
No and nor would the GPO in Dublin or any building of architectural or historical merit. However, an older building or walls alongside a train track for instance, would look better with artisitic graffiti (a distinction must be made between ''Tony loves Sharon 4eva'' and a mural for instance)
I can't vote since I think it depends on the building in question and the artistic talent involved.

EDIT: Look at these Cosmo; http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=5289
Are they art? Do they show the degeneracy in society or is their subject matter reflecting, for the most part, the degeneracy of human and colonial action? I know what I think.

If the graffiti is on an old run down building, I think it stresses my point of a society in decline. And that is where most graffiti is found.

I would consider those murals art, yes. But I also think that neighborhood would look better without them.

Phlegethon
Friday, December 12th, 2003, 10:59 PM
Murals are an Ulster phenomenon. All we have here is hip-hop gangsta, anarchist or Arab youth graffiti, which aren't even legible.

Scáthach
Friday, December 12th, 2003, 11:10 PM
Cosmo, you miss the point of those murals COMPLETELY if that's what you think.
As for graffiti on run down buildings, one could take the approach that people painting on such buildings shows creativity rather than degeneration - it's the building in decline not the artist.

Phlegethon
Friday, December 12th, 2003, 11:16 PM
I like decaying buildings without graffiti.

Lala
Saturday, December 13th, 2003, 09:49 AM
I like decaying buildings without graffiti.

I second that. For me, graffiti on buildings that are past their time looks pretty depressing. It's reminds me of a dull version of "out with the old"... bleh. And I'm just talking about the mural type of grafitti.

Evolved
Saturday, December 13th, 2003, 10:17 AM
I like it, it's a kind of urban folk art. I don't mean gang tags (http://www.morningside-heights.net/grafitti.jpg), but stuff like this:

http://www.jasbits.com/jb-newsss/grafitti-center.jpg
http://www.troyland.com/wanderlustusa/grafitti.jpg

Ominous Lord Spoonblade
Sunday, December 14th, 2003, 12:45 AM
I like reading the funny stuff that people write in bathroom stalls! :-D And every once and awhile it's funny to call one of the phone numbers left on there -like "for a good time call Bobby 555-5555" hehehe

Graffiti that looks good isn't so bad. It depends where it is too. If you don't like graffiti on a certain building, one way to make sure the city gets rid of it is to spray paint a giant swastika on it :-D They usually clean that up really fast. Though once someone put a giant blue one on a synagogue just a few blocks down from me, and it was there for quite awhile! It was a huge one too! They just couldn't get rid of it, and for the longest time there was a fading image of a blue swastika on this synagogue....funny in a way...

Awar
Sunday, December 14th, 2003, 01:04 AM
It depends on the quality and location of the grafitti.

Post your definition of what degeneracy is.
I doubt there are a lot of grafitti in Saudi Arabia.

cosmocreator
Monday, December 15th, 2003, 07:34 AM
Post your definition of what degeneracy is.


I am not a dictionary. But this is the definition according to Merrian-Webster which I agree with:

Main Entry: de·gen·er·a·cy
Pronunciation: di-'jen-r&-sE, -'je-n&-, dE-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -cies
Date: 1664
1 : the state of being degenerate
2 : the process of becoming degenerate
3 : sexual perversion
4 : the coding of an amino acid by more than one codon

Main Entry: 1de·gen·er·ate
Pronunciation: di-'jen-r&t, -'je-n&-, dE-
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English degenerat, from Latin degeneratus, past participle of degenerare to degenerate, from de- + gener-, genus race, kind -- more at KIN
Date: 15th century
1 a : having declined (as in nature, character, structure, or function) from an ancestral or former state b : having sunk to a condition below that which is normal to a type; especially : having sunk to a lower and usually corrupt and vicious state c : DEGRADED

Main Entry: de·grade
Pronunciation: di-'grAd, dE-
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French degrader, from Late Latin degradare, from Latin de- + gradus step, grade -- more at GRADE
Date: 14th century
transitive senses
1 a : to lower in grade, rank, or status : DEMOTE b : to strip of rank or honors c : to lower to an inferior or less effective level d : to scale down in desirability or salability
2 a : to bring to low esteem or into disrepute b : to drag down in moral or intellectual character : CORRUPT
3 : to impair in respect to some physical property

Gesta Bellica
Tuesday, December 16th, 2003, 07:43 AM
I live in Italy.
it means that i had the chance to see a lot of historical monuments ruined but stupid graffiti.
I could tollerate them on a white wall not surely in historical places!
It's a form of disrespect, art is another thing.

Gesta Bellica
Tuesday, December 16th, 2003, 07:46 AM
damn! i voted the wrong option, this stupid pc played a trick on me while i was about to click for the answer :(

NormanBlood
Tuesday, December 16th, 2003, 05:30 PM
The buildings on which the graffiti is PUT are beautiful expressions of art...not the graffiti itself. If you want to draw on a wall do it on your own property in your own home.

Gladstone
Monday, December 22nd, 2003, 04:20 AM
Murals are cool, provided their tasteful (ie the Irish ones and presumably with the owners permission). For the most part I do not care for grafitti. Right off the bat it's defacement of someone else's property, often public property at that and basically is a symbol of lawbreaking. It is also depressing as so much of it has no aesthetic value, a great deal of it's just ugly; but even the grafitti that does have some aesthetics (and some does) they should do it on their own walls on their own property, not someone elses. When I go to the park I'm there to get around nature, not to see grafitti painted on the picnic tables and sidewalks; fortunately where I am at they do not tolerate it and its immediately removed if it shows up and I am glad they do.

Something of an aside; I happened to be at our state capitol (Austin) one day and this parade of protestors came by. I have forgotten what exactly they were protesting but they were certainly the rad-lib variety. One of the protestors got out of the main crowd and decided he was going to spray paint some grafitti on a wall as his "protest". Anyway, almost immediately a cop came around and hauled him off before he could get much of anything on the wall; he made quite a scene. All too pathetic.

Here in Texas we execute grafitti "artists"; maybe that's why the scene!:D ;-)

NormanBlood
Tuesday, December 23rd, 2003, 05:13 AM
Execution of graffiti artists? Wow, I don't believe I've heard of that kind of law before (not execution...but of the grafitti artists). Here you are just arrested...I sometimes think our laws are a little too "soft" though.

Gladstone
Tuesday, December 23rd, 2003, 07:13 AM
Execution of graffiti artists? Wow, I don't believe I've heard of that kind of law before (not execution...but of the grafitti artists). Here you are just arrested...I sometimes think our laws are a little too "soft" though.

Just a dab of humor there NB. Here too, it is simply arrest.;-):-) I do see the grafitti in its modern sense as something of a symptom of an unhealthy culture largely egged on by our rad-lib "friends" as a means to help break the society and to get their message in. As the society is broken they will fill in the vacuam and they are doing that as we speak. Once firmly in power (God forbid!) I do not think they will be so leneint of those attempting grafitti of messages they do not care for; they know very well the trick of how they got in (that is pushing for licentiousness, then exploiting the same) and won't cotton others trying the same on them. So much for tolerance.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Monday, May 31st, 2004, 10:41 PM
Execution seems a little too far. They should pay a fine and be forced to clean up their mess. They should also be deported if they are muds.

Hanna
Wednesday, April 30th, 2008, 05:02 PM
What do you think buildings have graffitti on them?:(


http://i29.tinypic.com/2a6a239.jpg

I think its look sad, and not productive at all.

Leof
Wednesday, April 30th, 2008, 05:23 PM
Are you asking what do we think of buildings with grafitti on them? I personally think it is obscene. I remember when I was in Reykjavik, that stuff was everywhere. I found it insulting to the otherwise beautiful city and landscape. Defacing property in such a way should be a heavy offense rather than a low cost fine.

Thrymheim
Wednesday, April 30th, 2008, 05:42 PM
Graffiti is difficult, on a nice building or where it is just a hastily scrawled swear word or name it is terrible, however on a concrete monstrosity such as a motorway bridge, or where it has been well done, it can be pleasing. After all some graffiti has great artistic merit and it can enhance the area, my town held a graffiti contest on a building due for demolition, some of it was so good it would have been nice to see it kept. equally toilet graffiti in pubs/clubs is often humerus and wastes time perfectly! So I would say it depends where it is and how well it is done, as a general rule I don't like it but there are exceptions.

Psychonaut
Wednesday, April 30th, 2008, 07:44 PM
This entire wretched island that I live on is covered in the graffiti of the local Asian gangs. Pretty much that only areas that are not defaced are the military installations where I live and work. It has made what has the potential to be a beautiful island into one big ghetto.

Freydis
Wednesday, April 30th, 2008, 10:27 PM
I like some graffiti that brightens up an urban core and gives it a little bit of new life. Gang graffiti and sh!tty little tags can go away though.

Sigurd
Wednesday, April 30th, 2008, 10:40 PM
80% of the Graffiti that has recently been sprayed on the walls of buildings in my hometown of Innsbruck reads either "Antifa" or "NPI" (the left-wing football fans). I think I don't have to say much about that.

In the right environment, it can be pleasing to the eye, especially if thoughtful ... however, very few environments are the right ones, and those buildings that could merit a redecoration rarely receive a graffiti, instead it is nice, old buildings of outstanding beauty that get smeared on, and often in little taste...

Loddfafner
Wednesday, April 30th, 2008, 10:54 PM
Because too many European kids want to play American ghetto circa 1978. What really puzzled me were old central european local trains - of possible austro-hungarian vintage - painted up like NYC subway cars back in the day.

Flash Voyager
Wednesday, April 30th, 2008, 11:06 PM
It defiles most buildings, but I don't mind if it's on some abandoned and neglected buildings, in some cases it's their main characteristic.

Hersir
Wednesday, April 30th, 2008, 11:13 PM
I dont like it, but some political or critical graffiti can be good, depends on which buildings they are on.

Thusnelda
Thursday, May 1st, 2008, 11:24 AM
I dislike Graffitis generally. Itīs a harm of foreign property and itīs no kind of "art" I like, too.

OneEnglishNorman
Thursday, May 1st, 2008, 11:38 AM
Graffiti is mostly produced by malcontent teenagers who should know better. Sure, it brightens up the crummiest buildings in the crappy areas, but the reason those areas are crappy in the first place is because the people who live there produce kids who like to... spray graffiti.

Siebenbürgerin
Thursday, May 1st, 2008, 12:20 PM
Like other People here said, it depends. It could be Art or anti-Art. I absolutely hate it when teenagers spray propagandistic Things or Music Logos on nice Buildings. But if it's done in a different Environment, like abandoned Buildings can be interesting to look at. For Example, I think the graffitti on the Berlin Wall (http://www.dailysoft.com/berlinwall/art/berlinwallart_index01.htm) are very interesting. :)

Deary
Friday, May 2nd, 2008, 01:36 AM
Graffiti is vandalism regardless of how "cool" it looks. Ugly buildings are only made uglier with graffiti just as bodies are made uglier with tattoos. All graffiti does, whether on abandoned buildings or free walls, is perpetuate unlawfulness and a degenerate culture. It portrays nothing but a disrespect for rules and property by the failures and scum of mankind. Graffiti is a neverending contest. It doesn't depend on what it's on or how it looks because the result remains the same. There is always a signature that has to be made or a design that has to be bettered, and this is usually done illegally. Even legalized graffiti gets mimicked illegally and paid graffiti artists are essentially paid criminals. It sickens me that there are actually art museums and organizations doing this in the name of "expression" as if that is the kind of expression our societies need perpetuated and influencing our children. These "I don't mind if..." or "Sometimes it's nice..." lax attitudes cost people money and the quality of their communities. It is completely unacceptable and there's no good to any of it. Stop being so short-sighted. Graffiti is more than fancy pictures and scribbles.

Burgundian
Friday, May 2nd, 2008, 03:27 AM
It is all usually Mexican gang signs around here.

Drakkar
Friday, May 2nd, 2008, 04:31 AM
I believe graffiti is acceptable if done artistically and legally. Unfortunately, this is not the case for close to 95% of the time.

Example of typical graffiti art:
http://www.kuteev.ru/ph/andric15.jpg
(you're doing it wrong.)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/gloucestershire/content/images/2007/04/17/random_bad_400x300.jpg

Artwork from legally sanctioned graffiti space:
http://z.about.com/d/queens/1/5/N/C/5pointz-sooz.jpg
http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/display/ec2edffd-005f-466a-b173-7503136a396f.jpg
(serious business.)

How can you say no to this?
http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/resources/2006/12/linkgraffiti.jpg
(probably not legal, but full of win.)

Dr. Solar Wolff
Friday, May 2nd, 2008, 06:30 AM
I had no idea Europe had become so mexicanized. Graffitti is a Mexican form of communication which originated during the Spanish occupation because the Mexican inhabitants could not read. Murals had to be painted on walls to teach them the fundamentals of history and religion. This all evolved into what it is now, gang-banging and psuedo-art. I think these "perps" should be charged with a crime similar to arson since it is property destruction. In the USA, if politicians were not so whimpy, we have laws governing organized crime (gangs) called the RICO laws. Under these if say an 18th Street gang sign appeared on a building, the whole gang could be arrested and charged with conspiracy to commit a felony, convicted and sent to prison. But, as I say, our politicians are much to chicken XXXX.

Eccardus Teutonicus
Friday, May 2nd, 2008, 06:46 AM
I had no idea Europe had become so mexicanized. Graffitti is a Mexican form of communication which originated during the Spanish occupation because the Mexican inhabitants could not read. Murals had to be painted on walls to teach them the fundamentals of history and religion. This all evolved into what it is now, gang-banging and psuedo-art. I think these "perps" should be charged with a crime similar to arson since it is property destruction. In the USA, if politicians were not so whimpy, we have laws governing organized crime (gangs) called the RICO laws. Under these if say an 18th Street gang sign appeared on a building, the whole gang could be arrested and charged with conspiracy to commit a felony, convicted and sent to prison. But, as I say, our politicians are much to chicken XXXX.

I don't know where you're getting your information, but graffiti has been around since Roman times. The word "graffiti" comes from the Italian "graffiato" meaning "scratched" (sharing a root with our word "engrave"). There's graffiti carved all over the poor districts of Rome that may as well be "ROMVLVS WVZ HEER", as well as caricatures of important persons and other such things. There is positively no connexion with the Mexica at all.

Graffiti is just doodles on a large scale; there is no beauty in a city-- it at least adds some colour to the concrete jungle. For the most part it stays in the poor areas, I say let the proletarian have their "art" as we have ours. Here is, however where we must make the division: graffiti v. vandalism. Vandalism is gang tags, obscene messages, destruction of something for the sheer sake of destruction. Any one can vandalise. Graffiti is more complex, it take exerted effort and a measure of artistic skill, and the product is more refined (in a loose, urban sense of the word) and therefore at least to some degree aesthetically pleasing. Of course, we can't have AuslÃĪnder graffiti polluting native areas, but I think that's more a question of getting rid of the immigrants, not getting rid of the graffiti.

Bärin
Friday, May 2nd, 2008, 06:55 AM
I like graffitti and wall art if it's done in a tasteful manner, on spaces which allow it.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Berlin_Wall_Trabant_grafitti.jpg

Dr. Solar Wolff
Friday, May 2nd, 2008, 07:03 AM
I don't know where you're getting your information, but graffiti has been around since Roman times. The word "graffiti" comes from the Italian "graffiato" meaning "scratched" (sharing a root with our word "engrave"). There's graffiti carved all over the poor districts of Rome that may as well be "ROMVLVS WVZ HEER", as well as caricatures of important persons and other such things. There is positively no connexion with the Mexica at all.

Graffiti is just doodles on a large scale; there is no beauty in a city-- it at least adds some colour to the concrete jungle. For the most part it stays in the poor areas, I say let the proletarian have their "art" as we have ours. Here is, however where we must make the division: graffiti v. vandalism. Vandalism is gang tags, obscene messages, destruction of something for the sheer sake of destruction. Any one can vandalise. Graffiti is more complex, it take exerted effort and a measure of artistic skill, and the product is more refined (in a loose, urban sense of the word) and therefore at least to some degree aesthetically pleasing. Of course, we can't have AuslÃĪnder graffiti polluting native areas, but I think that's more a question of getting rid of the immigrants, not getting rid of the graffiti.

Oh no, Roman graffiti has nothing to do with gang signs or illiteracy. Mexican-type graffiti offends everyone in America because they are imposing their culture on us. Art has nothing to do with it. They deface beautiful building with their psuedo-art graffiti.

Or would a swastika spayed on a Jewish Center be art? Or a Black Sun? Why not? Would you Europeans be so tolerant as to allow me to do that in the name of art? Well, what Mexicans do is just as insulting to us as spraying a swastika on their buildings is to Jews.

Boernician
Friday, May 2nd, 2008, 07:36 AM
Well there are muralists and then there is graffiti. Orzoc and Diego Rivera were muralists. That is they were paid by someone to do murals.I can not stand Social realism in art in the style of Picasso's Guernicca.

Ugly. No better than all those WPA murals and Nazi Art or Soviet art.. I like some murals. Graffiti well that just plain vandalism,its like a dog marking a tree.If it were up to me(good thing it is not) I would tattoo on the perpetrators face whatever he put on the wall.It' is not just Mexicans, black gangs also Tag as they call it marking out thier turf. I am sure if Samoans could read and write they would do it to.

Blood_Axis
Friday, May 2nd, 2008, 09:05 AM
I have seen some pretty funny graffiti like this

http://bp0.blogger.com/_CcCt5C3yIDE/RjNksHpro3I/AAAAAAAAAJ0/EUT2hveZ4hc/s400/school-chix5.jpg

...which adds up some humor and color to Athens which is too grey. Although what Athens needs to be brightened up is not graffiti but demolition of 70% of the 'box' buildings :p

I like some artistic graffiti that's usually made by art students, but in general, too much graffiti makes a city look dirtier and more decadent than it already is. The best thing would be to preserve the buildings and keep them clean, not decorate their musty walls :p

Rainraven
Friday, May 2nd, 2008, 09:26 AM
I think it's particularly sad when graffitti has mispellings, or misuse of symbols. If this is "art" it hardly seems a very intelligent form.

Psychonaut
Friday, May 2nd, 2008, 11:48 AM
I'm shocked at how many Althing members think that it's fine and dandy to for young hoodlums to deface another person's, or the state's, property so long as the result looks good. Would you feel the same way if it was your house or car that was the target of this type of "art," or would you do the rational thing and beat the little bastards with a Louisville Slugger?

Bärin
Friday, May 2nd, 2008, 11:54 AM
I'm shocked at how many Althing members think that it's fine and dandy to for young hoodlums to deface another person's, or the state's, property so long as the result looks good. Would you feel the same way if it was your house or car that was the target of this type of "art," or would you do the rational thing and beat the little bastards with a Louisville Slugger?
No, I'd do the rational thing and call the police on them. I said it's acceptable on spaces which allow it. It's allowed on the Berlin Wall but not on my property. ;):o

Burgundian
Friday, May 2nd, 2008, 11:56 AM
I'm shocked at how many Althing members think that it's fine and dandy to for young hoodlums to deface another person's, or the state's, property so long as the result looks good. Would you feel the same way if it was your house or car that was the target of this type of "art," or would you do the rational thing and beat the little bastards with a Louisville Slugger?

Haha. Thats a little harsh. I'd rather detain them and make them clean it up somehow, that seems more productive. Anyway, there is some good looking graffiti in Seattle, it adds a certain feeling to a business.

SwordOfTheVistula
Friday, May 2nd, 2008, 12:10 PM
It's disgusting. It is particuarly bad in eastern Europe, they would draw on bus stops etc in full view of everyone. The one exception I'll make, I visited the city where my great-grandmother was born (most recent immigrant to the US), and saw 'white power' graffiti all over the entire city, so I don't really mind that. Here though, it is just disgusting, and a sign of the third worlder dominance

Freydis
Saturday, May 3rd, 2008, 12:47 AM
I'm shocked at how many Althing members think that it's fine and dandy to for young hoodlums to deface another person's, or the state's, property so long as the result looks good. Would you feel the same way if it was your house or car that was the target of this type of "art," or would you do the rational thing and beat the little bastards with a Louisville Slugger?

I own nothing for them to deface. ^^

I don't have a problem with graffiti on bridge undersides and as murals on buildings.

I did actually like some of Athens' graffiti last time I was there (2005), but the majority was crap.

I would be pleased if someone wanted to do a mural on my building. In fact, someone already has on the back of where I am living now and it looks lovely. ^^

Graffiti on public as in governmental and private property without the permission of the owner is wrong, obviously.

Psychonaut
Saturday, May 3rd, 2008, 02:22 AM
I don't have a problem with graffiti on bridge undersides and as murals on buildings.

Graffiti on public as in governmental and private property without the permission of the owner is wrong, obviously.

This is a contradiction. Bridges are public property; they are owned by a governmental municipality and are funded entirely by tax dollars. I don't know of any municipalities that allow or encourage graffiti on public property. If a person chooses to "decorate" their personal property with graffiti or chooses to allow people to put graffiti on their building then, naturally, they are within their rights as property owners. All else is criminal activity, pure and simple. I think the only reason that graffiti is proliferated as much as it is is due to the fact that most Western nations do not prosecute graffiti criminals effectively. After his caning in Singapore, I don't think that Michael P. Fay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay) will be spray painting any more vehicles.

Maelstrom
Saturday, May 3rd, 2008, 02:30 AM
I think it's particularly sad when graffitti has mispellings, or misuse of symbols. If this is "art" it hardly seems a very intelligent form.

Ha, that reminds me of some Maori thugs defacing the local Warehouse (retail store chain) with backwards Swastikas and horrendous grammatical mistakes.

Guntwachar
Saturday, May 3rd, 2008, 02:37 AM
We had a library here before, and when it was just build some of the best graffiti artists were invited to spray the walls but then as one whole piece of art, not like west side/east coast bullshit.

In that case it can be nice when a architect works together with the sprayers you can get a cool building, but on old buildings and just any public buildings without permission its kinda retarded and ruins the beauty of buildings.

Rainraven
Saturday, May 3rd, 2008, 03:37 AM
What does everyone think should be done about the graffitti? I know here in New Zealand we have people painting over it for community service and volunteer groups, but it doesn't seem to be enough. Any ideas? Or preventative measures?

Maelstrom
Saturday, May 3rd, 2008, 04:36 AM
What does everyone think should be done about the graffitti? I know here in New Zealand we have people painting over it for community service and volunteer groups, but it doesn't seem to be enough. Any ideas? Or preventative measures?

More community service for those found guilty of vandalism. Fines should be imposed on young offenders and/or their families. Sometimes that's the only way that families will acknowledge that their children are problematic. Curfews for offenders could be implimented too.

Already in New Zealand you cannot purchase spray paint unless you're 18 or over. I think this is a good measure. Though for those youth involved in 'gangs' I'm sure it won't stop them obtaining spray paint.

This, like so many other issues plaguing our country, starts at home. If children are bought up with morals then they simply won't offend. What you're seeing though is that many people from large families (especially in the Polynesian community in South Auckland) spend very little time with their families. Their parents are of little help because the city is a foreign environment to them.

Education starts at home.

Guntwachar
Saturday, May 3rd, 2008, 04:54 AM
Well i actually did graffiti myself (not on buildings) but on our skatepark, the land was given to us by a rich man that had a big house nearby it.

When i was getting some spraycans and stuff like that, i noticed police watching the store and i talked with some graffiti artists that do paint on buildings they said the police is watching all the known "underground" graffiti shops and check everyone that goes in or out to see if its a "famous" building raper.

That already helps alot as they dont even feel safe to get stuff to paint, then i think there should be harder punishments for damaging buildings with graffiti maybe even if its alot of damage jail time.

Maybe some special police team to kick there asses would be good also, uhh that was your hand sorry dont think your gonna paint anytime soon:D

CrystalRose
Saturday, May 3rd, 2008, 05:26 AM
we had a guy (a few weeks ago) from england come to san francisco and paint over graffiti with beautiful landscapes. (greys, whites, blacks, etc.)
rather then just cover it up with different weird blocks/shades of paint which is an eye sore.
i thought it turned something negative into something positive :D i wish i could remember his name..
But in the city we have a lot of murals..
for example..
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bluejake.com/images06/misc/2006_8_eatthehomeless.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bluejake.com/archives/2006/08/22/graffiti_dog_eats_a_homeless_camp.php&h=97&w=146&sz=459&tbnid=j8Hdw4v18HEJ:&tbnh=97&tbnw=146&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsan%2Bfrancisco%2Bgraffiti&hl=en&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image&cd=1
AND..
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cassidy/sets/58512/


my favorite thing in san francisco is the building called
Defenestration -- defined as throwing people or things out a window. it has furniture stuck to the outside of it.. when you're driving it looks alive. you can see it here:
http://www.roundamerica.com/trip/journal/day74.htm

Freydis
Saturday, May 3rd, 2008, 06:12 AM
This is a contradiction. Bridges are public property; they are owned by a governmental municipality and are funded entirely by tax dollars. I don't know of any municipalities that allow or encourage graffiti on public property. If a person chooses to "decorate" their personal property with graffiti or chooses to allow people to put graffiti on their building then, naturally, they are within their rights as property owners. All else is criminal activity, pure and simple. I think the only reason that graffiti is proliferated as much as it is is due to the fact that most Western nations do not prosecute graffiti criminals effectively. After his caning in Singapore, I don't think that Michael P. Fay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay) will be spray painting any more vehicles.

There are so much more things to worry about than paint on a bridge that no one sees except those that walk underneath. There are also better ways to spend tax dollars.

Eccardus Teutonicus
Saturday, May 3rd, 2008, 06:31 AM
Oh no, Roman graffiti has nothing to do with gang signs or illiteracy. Mexican-type graffiti offends everyone in America because they are imposing their culture on us. Art has nothing to do with it. They deface beautiful building with their psuedo-art graffiti.

Or would a swastika spayed on a Jewish Center be art? Or a Black Sun? Why not? Would you Europeans be so tolerant as to allow me to do that in the name of art? Well, what Mexicans do is just as insulting to us as spraying a swastika on their buildings is to Jews.

I'm still trying to discern where you're getting this Mexican thing from. The only real graffiti tradition (definitely used loosely here) south of the US comes from Brazil, but even then the mural-type graffiti conjured in everyone's minds originates there in the 1960s, about the same time it was emerging in US urban environs. If you want to claim a cultural root of it, modern urban culture is what gave it birth.

Most buildings "defaced" by graffiti are post-50s architectural sins unto themselves, I hardly consider graffiti to be damage- if anything it contributes to the offensively plain and utilitarian structures so often found in urban settings by contributing an aesthetic quality, however avant-garde it might be, appropriate to the setting.

As for swastikas on a Jewish centre, I believe I addressed this already, the difference between vandalism and graffiti. You seem to place a great deal of concentration on things of "mexican style", but I would submit that this is a generalisation resulting from your personal experience rather than a wider understanding of the subject.

As an addendum I do not mean that as an insult or personal attack, I am merely giving my impression of things.

Burgundian
Saturday, May 3rd, 2008, 12:16 PM
What we mean by "Mexican graffiti":

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/4026/p4090013largesmallhr2.jpg

A photograph I took in Denver, Colorado a year or so ago. I have plenty more like this. I think this sign alone was replaced/painted over about three times while I lived there.

Evolved
Tuesday, May 13th, 2008, 08:58 AM
That is a tag/scribble, unfortunately the most common kind of graffiti. It is associated with gangs and vandals, not real artists. I have no problem with murals and wildstyle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graffiti#Characteristics_of_common_graff iti) on boring concrete buildings, walls, highway overpasses, traincars, government property and the like. When there is a state that gives a damn about our people, that's when I'll start to give a damn about state-owned property being damaged by paint. On people's homes, on places of worship, in parks & school grounds, on historic buildings and on sculpture it should never be tolerated and must be severely punished.

Blood_Axis
Tuesday, May 13th, 2008, 11:23 AM
When there is a state that gives a damn about our people, that's when I'll start to give a damn about state-owned property being damaged by paint.

Magnificent observation. I think those two go hand in hand. The more corrupt and selfish a government, the more 'reactionary' graffiti is going to appear on public buildings.

Ossi
Tuesday, May 13th, 2008, 11:26 AM
Ya, this state is corrupt and the graffitti just shows it.

Old Winter
Tuesday, May 13th, 2008, 12:09 PM
I hate it, my city is full of it, they spray it everywhere, on the road, on the streetlights, everywhere, and you can never read what it says

fggfd reergger 5t54yhge < are all graffiti sprayers on hard drugs ? because the things i see are no words but gibberish and garbage.

Blood_Axis
Sunday, July 6th, 2008, 03:42 PM
"Three people to be afraid of:

Osama - Obama - Your Mama "

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/9637/spa0388hn8.jpg

:D

Northern Paladin
Friday, April 1st, 2011, 05:41 AM
The only use of graffiti is warning people, to me graffiti says "do not enter this neighborhood if you are White"

Caledonian
Friday, April 1st, 2011, 07:17 AM
Graffiti is as old as civilization. I remember watching a documentary where some ancient Roman perverse grafitti survived on a wall written in latin leading to a surviving ancient Greek amphitheater.

Some people just get off on writing or drawing obnoxious things on builidings and structures in public places.

Northern Paladin
Saturday, April 2nd, 2011, 03:10 AM
What is graffiti anyway? Does "post-graffiti" qualify? If so, then it depends on the drawing. Some of it could be called "interesting" but never beautiful.

ekorn
Tuesday, July 26th, 2011, 02:29 PM
Dont like them. All graffitis I've seen around were made by blacks or commies asking for anarchy. I'm not even sure when and where graffiti was invented but 90% graffiti painters are blacks, writing senseless crap on our walls...and after few days, white employees come to get the crap off the wall. :thumbdown

Rich Becker
Sunday, May 6th, 2012, 06:05 AM
Where I live (a very nasty, desolate city in the US), seeing graffiti sometimes reminds me that there are still humans alive.

Elessar
Sunday, May 6th, 2012, 06:36 AM
I don't mind graffiti in big cities, because it doesn't diminish the shittiness of metropolitan areas, but when "gangs" such as "bloods" are tagging street signs in my moderately small town, and "claiming" city parks and libraries as their "turf", is when I get a little cheesed off about it. It's a sure sign of extra-ethnic creep.

hyidi
Sunday, May 6th, 2012, 06:43 AM
Gang related. America LA is the worst!
All graffiti is a warming to other gangs 'this Is my turf f/ck off. Mostly blacks, hispanics, Asians ,Arabs ect... It's not art and It's an alien culture to the Germanic European race.

Rich Becker
Monday, May 7th, 2012, 09:44 PM
Gang related. America LA is the worst!
All graffiti is a warming to other gangs 'this Is my turf f/ck off. Mostly blacks, hispanics, Asians ,Arabs ect... It's not art and It's an alien culture to the Germanic European race.

Gang graffiti is garbage as we all know but anti-corporate political propaganda on the side of an ugly wall or building that shouldn't be there to begin with and is an affront to nature, I don't mind at all. Modern corporate aesthetic is terribly inhuman and robotic.

CruxClaire
Tuesday, May 8th, 2012, 02:25 AM
Why are there only two options in the poll? I think that's vastly oversimplifying it. I've seen some extremely artistic looking murals and activist graffiti (and even some nice-looking "tags"), as well as thought-provoking political graffiti. Graffiti is a sign of a society and people alive, in some cases - it's like cave murals that archaeologists use to analyze culture, but brought to the present time.

On the other hand, gang-related graffiti meant to claim territory or deface public property just for the hell of it is repulsive. Oftentimes, a dangerous and decaying part of a city can be identified by the copious amounts of graffiti around.

Unity Mitford
Tuesday, May 8th, 2012, 02:50 AM
Why are there only two options in the poll? I think that's vastly oversimplifying it. I've seen some extremely artistic looking murals and activist graffiti (and even some nice-looking "tags"), as well as thought-provoking political graffiti. Graffiti is a sign of a society and people alive, in some cases - it's like cave murals that archaeologists use to analyze culture, but brought to the present time.

On the other hand, gang-related graffiti meant to claim territory or deface public property just for the hell of it is repulsive. Oftentimes, a dangerous and decaying part of a city can be identified by the copious amounts of graffiti around.

I see your point, but on the whole, graffiti signifies decline ;)

Svanhild
Tuesday, May 8th, 2012, 12:47 PM
Come to Hamburg and have a look at the 'great' graffiti artwork on public and private buildings, on rail-wagons and trucks. It's degeneration created by dumb people with no strain of respect for the property of others.

Sal Saxon
Tuesday, May 8th, 2012, 05:20 PM
I see your point, but on the whole, graffiti signifies decline ;)

Yea I gotta agree with this, but regardless of the ''decline'' in wider society I think sometimes Graffiti can be meaningfull for people. You can think of some types as a ''love letter'' lol. I read somewhere that they found Viking Graffiti on tombs (i think) with runic inscriptions like ''so and so is the most beautiful'' -personal messages like this, which in my opinion is kinda sweet. It reminds me actually of carving your name on a tree with your ''lovers'' name to and seeing it years later as a connection to your own past -this is sorta like a connection to Folk past. Although we know it wont last on it's own, (modern Graffiti) if you get a photograph then its a record of a Peoples spirit. Thats what I think anyway.

Eiriksson
Tuesday, May 8th, 2012, 06:13 PM
As for the roots of this activity, which is black gangs marking their territory, I completely despise it, but otoh I saw some beautiful pieces of arts like photographs painted on the wall etc, same goes with rap music, which "sometimes" is really piece of nice poetry, but "coincidentally" this better side of those activities is mainly done by whites who once get into this subculture.

I/m not sure whether its just coincidence that those graffiters and rappers who caught my attention are whites, or it's just my awfully biased mind which see whites superiority where it can ;)

Sehnsucht
Tuesday, May 8th, 2012, 06:26 PM
As for roots of this activity, which is black gangs marking their territory, I completely despise it,

The NYC graffiti scene kind of spawned from a bored Greek:
http://taki183.net/#biography

;)

The poll should be multiple choice to.

Feyn
Tuesday, May 8th, 2012, 07:20 PM
I donīt think you can give a general answer to this question, cause graffiti can mean all kinds of things, from single colored names or gang signs, that are usually just ugly, to really beautiful pictures with many colors that needed hours to be sprayed.
If its well made its definitly something i like, since it gives some color to the otherwise quite ugly city. If its just gang signs or tacking have them arrested, clean their shit and at least 10 others on their cost (since you donīt get everyone the ones you do get have to work for the ones you donīt ^^)

Thusnelda
Tuesday, May 8th, 2012, 08:21 PM
Well sorry, Iīm not a fan of graffiti, not at all. :| I donīt like the style and "art" of as good as all graffiti, I donīt like the graffiti-sprayer subculture (mostly urban leftists or liberals) and I donīt like the fact the possessions of other people are damaged or ruined.

Iīm a fan of traditional art, like that: :)

http://www.kunstmaler-niebert.de/landschaften-Gemaelde/nachregen.jpg

http://wroclove2012.com/userfiles/3.%20blogerzy%20slider/Lodowiec-Grindelwald--Joseph-Anton-Koch.jpg

http://www.br.de/themen/bayern/sendlinger-mordweihnacht-defregger100~_v-image512_-6a0b0d9618fb94fd9ee05a84a1099a13ec9d3321 .jpg

http://www.bilder-bilderrahmen.de/media/images/popup/defregger-von-franz--maedchenportraet-787253.jpg

http://www.billerantik.de/gallery2/main.php/d/1992-1/64_Letzte_Aufgebot.jpg

CruxClaire
Tuesday, May 8th, 2012, 10:16 PM
Here are some pictures of graffiti that obviously required some serious artistic talent:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2359/2241311984_40c8e90c3f.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_tJ1sghBiuaU/TKjHNMtRD2I/AAAAAAAAbl8/zgrNZuhUwDI/s1600/beautiful_graffiti_05.jpg

http://media.smashingmagazine.com/images/graffiti/mac.jpg

NOTE: The second one might just be a mural because the artist put a website - it's unclear.

And here's some that's clever/humorous rather than gang-related:

http://blog.ivman.com/wp-content/PlugLines.jpg

http://blog.ivman.com/wp-content/NoSaleJoy.jpg

http://pulpfactor.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/funny_street_graffiti.jpg

That type of graffiti is much rarer than the standard gang symbols, but it definitely exists, and I do think it brightens the community a bit.

Rich Becker
Wednesday, May 9th, 2012, 02:50 AM
Ya'll are missing the point maybe because you haven't live in terrible US cities like I do. Most of the buildings are graffiti or litter on nature themselves. Bad art, corporate creep, whatever you want to call it. Graffiti on that transgression can be a sign of humanity. If we lived in a massive police state where everyone is drugged up and zombified, and someone came along and painted something like "What have we created!" on the wall, it would be almost like a sign of hope.

Unity Mitford
Wednesday, May 9th, 2012, 01:09 PM
In a perfect world, there would be no graffiti and only beautiful architecture.

Jens
Saturday, May 12th, 2012, 03:21 AM
I said no, but there is some graffiti that I would consider works of art, particularly some of the examples posted in this thread. The thing about wonderful works of art, you never have to ask if it's art. Every human being has the capacity to recognize art. If you have to ask, the no, it is degenerate filth, not art.

CruxClaire
Saturday, May 12th, 2012, 04:24 AM
Short, finely crafted nationalist slogans spray painted where they flash before train passengers on a daily basis, are art.

That's not art. That's just a different type of gang symbol - just from a gang whose political views happen to correspond to yours. Defacing property, public or private, with something ugly like that reflects a lack of regard for one's land, not nationalism.

Flag-Soil
Tuesday, August 2nd, 2016, 09:48 PM
Better with or without graffiti?
http://i63.tinypic.com/2i222hd.jpg

Shadow
Wednesday, August 3rd, 2016, 02:01 AM
Ya'll are missing the point maybe because you haven't live in terrible US cities like I do. Most of the buildings are graffiti or litter on nature themselves. Bad art, corporate creep, whatever you want to call it. Graffiti on that transgression can be a sign of humanity. If we lived in a massive police state where everyone is drugged up and zombified, and someone came along and painted something like "What have we created!" on the wall, it would be almost like a sign of hope.

Yes!

You wanna end this crap? Find those Mexican murals, those folk-murals they do as in Mexico City to communicate history to people who can't read, find those offshoots that they spend weeks working on and then spray paint over these with a swastika. Make them fix, repaint, replace daily. Hey, no legal problems doing this since the pro-Mexican government has decriminalized graffiti. Go for it!

Catterick
Wednesday, August 3rd, 2016, 07:36 AM
Graffiti is like tattoos for walls. I don't like the looks of it but its a folk art. Graffiti means people are creating something.

Englisc
Wednesday, August 3rd, 2016, 09:15 AM
Well, the two poll options are far too broad. Most of the time grafitti is ugly and infact illegal, but in some places you will find grafitti approved by the government than can lighten up what would otherwise be a visually indistinct area.

Shadow
Wednesday, August 3rd, 2016, 06:05 PM
Graffiti is like tattoos for walls. I don't like the looks of it but its a folk art. Graffiti means people are creating something.

So, do witches have tattoos in your part of England?

Shadow
Friday, August 5th, 2016, 02:21 AM
There is a gas station-convenience store on highway 5 which I visit when in the area. There are two restrooms which are unisex, handicap available, and so the doors lock. The toilets and toilet lid had years of scratched in and ballpoint pen graffiti, in this case Mexican gang logos. These are in crypto-Spanish and nobody understands them except other gang members. There are hundreds of these gang signs. The owers of the gas station are Indians and they don't care or want to piss anyone off, any Mexicans I mean. One day I brought my own black marker and wrote along to curved rim of the toilet lid when closed --Post Your Mexican Ph.D. Thesis Below.

The next time I was there a new toilet seat and lid were in place with no graffiti on it.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Friday, May 25th, 2018, 04:37 AM
The only thing I like is lovers carving their names in stone or wood.