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kharas
Tuesday, August 29th, 2006, 06:49 PM
I open this tread to talk about the importance of germans in Chile, and to see if there are more chilean people in this forum (I think, they will be the main interested in this thread).


As a first example of it's importance, we had the army modernization, by Emile Körner, this a few years after pacific war / saltpeter's war that Chile won against armies of peru and bolivians (both of here called despectively "cholos", by it's darkier skin, and because they are predominantly mestizos, while we are predominantly white). Körner, manage the army to make a powerful force, even that in firsts years of XX century, the kronprinz Eugen came to Chile and say that, except by numbers (by population reasons), this army has nothing to envide to the one that march in Berlin (i.e. Imperial German Army).

That is only one aof many roles of importance played by germans here. Another one is the sovereignity exercise in early unpopulated south, building cities, rebuilding destroyed cities, and avoiding Argentina expansionist ambitions (I have nothing "a priori" against argentinian, so welcome you all to this thread)..

Southern Jarl
Wednesday, August 30th, 2006, 04:20 AM
this a few years after pacific war / saltpeter's war that Chile won against armies of peru and bolivians (both of here called despectively "cholos", by it's darkier skin, and because they are predominantly mestizos, while we are predominantly white).

Hmm, this is some piece of news...Chileans predominantly "white"? What a surprise, I thought that Chile remained predominantly mestizo, a legacy from Colonial times -and having this "thought" (which I hold more as a fact rather than a "thought" ) confirmed by relatives who have been there, and from the Chileans (from diverse social backgrounds) I've actually met, I'm dumbfounded by what you've written.
Oh, another thing: bear in mind that the rank and file of all South American armies are and have been of mixed racial origins (mestizos and/or mulattoes). So, most of the times it was "cholos" vs. "cholos"...The only "white" units were mercenaries from Europe (often Germans). There may have been some other exceptions throughout "our" (I hate to generalize like this) history, but what I’ve said applies to the whole of Latin America.



Another one is the sovereignity exercise in early unpopulated south, building cities, rebuilding destroyed cities, and avoiding Argentina expansionist ambitions (I have nothing "a priori" against argentinian, so welcome you all to this thread)..

Well, "expanisonism" can be seen from both sides. All you "own" from Chiloé southwards is because of Chilean expansionism and opportunism. While in Colonial times those territories belonged to the Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata" and were not part of the "Capitanía de Chile" (which would later be "Chile"), once we broke free from the Spainiards we (Argentineans), as former seat of the Viceroyalty, inherited such territories. However, this was all theoretical for Spanish civilization had never reached such unexplored corners. It was in the 1840's, if I recall correctly, when, urged by an Argie, Domingo F. Sarmiento (who would later become President of Argentina), Chileans sent expeditions to take such lands from the natives. Well, the whole history is much more complex, to be more thorough we should go through all the later territorial disputes…but the point is that initial claim was certainly ours, and thus we can see where true "expansionism" came from.:)

kharas
Wednesday, August 30th, 2006, 09:06 AM
Hmm, this is some piece of news...Chileans predominantly "white"? What a surprise, I thought that Chile remained predominantly mestizo, a legacy from Colonial times -and having this "thought" (which I hold more as a fact rather than a "thought" ) confirmed by relatives who have been there, and from the Chileans (from diverse social backgrounds) I've actually met, I'm dumbfounded by what you've written.
Oh, another thing: bear in mind that the rank and file of all South American armies are and have been of mixed racial origins (mestizos and/or mulattoes). So, most of the times it was "cholos" vs. "cholos"...The only "white" units were mercenaries from Europe (often Germans). There may have been some other exceptions throughout "our" (I hate to generalize like this) history, but what I’ve said applies to the whole of Latin America.
You missunderstood me, but reading, I discover that it was my fault. I will try to explain me better.

First, relative to "cholos" term, I was not talking about armies in war, I was talking about the majourity component of their countries society.
Second, I do not know how was the colonial times in Argentina, but in Chile, mestizo unions were socially discouraged, and even prohibited, it was called AMANCEBAMIENTO. Mestizos were despised by spanish whites and by mapuche aborigins. Moreover, they were constantly in war. Spanish do not conquered mapuche lands, and they even destroyed many cities, including Santiago in their raids.

I know why they confirmed you that chile is mainly mestizo: Because here that is "politically correct" to say. why? Firstly because mapuche do not feel as chileans, and want independence to stablishes the "Wallmapu" (mapuche word for its kingdom) and it is an strategy to calm they (I am convinced of it, but I can not prove it, because is not official)
Secondly because they are "discrimined" by chilean society (even exists a legal separation between chileans and mapuche), and government wants reduce the discrimination levels.

Third, in chilean universities exists the "mapuche ascendent BECA"(I do not know how to translate BECA, maybe founding? but you know what I am saying) which requires to be mestizo or mapuche, having at least one mapuche surname (estrictly speaking, the Beca is indigenian ascendant, but I used mapuche because they are main indigenian tribe in Chile, and they are farly more numerous than any other).

Fourthly, medium chilean is 85 + % of europid (mainly spanish) and 15- indigenian, I even say that this relation is 90-10 or a bit more in favour of white race, but say that is considered racism here. Anyway, that it is medium chilean, not me.
Honestly I say you, Chileans are not mainly mestizos, argentinians neither.

Well, "expanisonism" can be seen from both sides. All you "own" from Chiloé southwards is because of Chilean expansionism and opportunism. While in Colonial times those territories belonged to the Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata" and were not part of the "Capitanía de Chile" (which would later be "Chile"), once we broke free from the Spainiards we (Argentineans), as former seat of the Viceroyalty, inherited such territories. However, this was all theoretical for Spanish civilization had never reached such unexplored corners. It was in the 1840's, if I recall correctly, when, urged by an Argie, Domingo F. Sarmiento (who would later become President of Argentina), Chileans sent expeditions to take such lands from the natives. Well, the whole history is much more complex, to be more thorough we should go through all the later territorial disputes…but the point is that initial claim was certainly ours, and thus we can see where true "expansionism" came from.:)

I do not want to engage in a fight against argentinian members by this. Expansionism is still present in argentinian government (I do not say that is evil, even, I found natural to a growing state to try growing in territories), in this lasts days I could talking you about Campos de Hielo conflict, and I have vastly documentation about that theme, but as I said, I do not want a conflict here.

On history: Chiloé was part of Peruvian Viceroyalty, and also, the last steps of Chilean administration was in there too.
Chile takes it when a peruvian force was going take it.

Chilean and Argentinians first limits corresponds to Uti Possidetis Juris, that stablishes same frontiers as in colonial times. This was reacorded by the two countries in 1856. By this treaty, Chile limits to Argentina in Oriental Patagony (now belonging to Argentina) in Río Negro.

However, Chile rennounced to possesion and ambitions otherside of Andes, and I will not attack you by this,

If you want, we may discuss this more extensively, but this is not the place. :thumbup

I suposse to be in good terms with you and all argentinians here.
Am I wrong in that? I wish not.
Greetings.

Todesritter
Thursday, August 31st, 2006, 06:45 AM
Thanks for starting this thread - I have an interest in the South American Germans.


My grandfather's second wife is descended of Chilean ethnic Germans.

Also one of my female German friends worked doing a customer support line for a while in Germany, and she said she had been routed a call, because of her ability to speak many dialects for many of the older customers from rural corners of Germany, and from the former German cultural/ethno/linguistic areas in central and eastern Europe before 1950, whose Hochdeutsch was poor. This call she was routed though she could not understand, because the caller was a Chilean German, and spoke a Thuringian dialect that has died out in Germany proper over two centuries ago, but apparently still thrives in several prosperous villages on the western slopes of the southern Andes.

kharas
Thursday, August 31st, 2006, 10:56 AM
In Chile, german communities and also ohter europeans) stablishes almost in colonies, and in fact, they are very closely related each to other (even, just like they are commonly in higher straits of society they are called colonies still today).

By this reason, old speaking forms can morph into news forms by the influence of local people or remains in "natural state" by trying to conserve identity. I think the second was the case that you are speaking about.

Here
Friday, September 1st, 2006, 01:29 AM
Chile is about 35% white/Europid in acordding to their census. The rest is mostly mestizo but at difference of Mexico where mestizo means mostly indian and many indians are called mestizos. That 65% of the population is acordding to genetic tests is mostly Europid 65% and 35% native. There are few Ntive population less than 5%.

Of that 35% of Europids, non-Spanish European (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe) immigrants arrived in Chile - mainly to the northern and southern extremities of the country - during the XIX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XIX_century) and XX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_century) centuries, including English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_people), Irish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_people), Italians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italians), French (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_people), and Balkans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkans). In 1848 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1848) a small but noteworthy German immigration took place, sponsored by the Chilean government with aims of colonising the southern region. German immigration influenced in a certain way the cultural composition of the southern provinces of Valdivia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valdivia), Llanquihue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llanquihue) and Osorno (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osorno).


Most of the Germans in Chile are in the Chilean part of the Patagonia, there are also some Swiss there.

Here
Friday, September 1st, 2006, 01:31 AM
""Thanks for starting this thread - I have an interest in the South American Germans.

My grandfather's second wife is descended of Chilean ethnic Germans.""



Here you have more info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_german#Latin_America

kharas
Monday, September 4th, 2006, 06:38 AM
Chile is about 35% white/Europid in acordding to their census. The rest is mostly mestizo but at difference of Mexico where mestizo means mostly indian and many indians are called mestizos. That 65% of the population is acordding to genetic tests is mostly Europid 65% and 35% native. There are few Ntive population less than 5%.

Of that 35% of Europids, non-Spanish European (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe) immigrants arrived in Chile - mainly to the northern and southern extremities of the country - during the XIX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XIX_century) and XX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_century) centuries, including English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_people), Irish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_people), Italians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italians), French (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_people), and Balkans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkans). In 1848 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1848) a small but noteworthy German immigration took place, sponsored by the Chilean government with aims of colonising the southern region. German immigration influenced in a certain way the cultural composition of the southern provinces of Valdivia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valdivia), Llanquihue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llanquihue) and Osorno (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osorno).


Most of the Germans in Chile are in the Chilean part of the Patagonia, there are also some Swiss there.

Excellent information. I was trying to say something like this. I must say that the % of native blood in "mestizos" is really lower that what appears in the census.
Finally, wikipedia is not a very trustable font, because is free edible, even, I am a registered user and sometimes I write on it.
But certainly it explain what I was trying to say is no exactly but nearby.

Here
Tuesday, September 5th, 2006, 02:06 AM
""wikipedia is not a very trustable font, because is free edible, even, I am a registered user and sometimes I write on it.""

true, but it's also true that people editing wikipedia removed non reliable information fast when it's false. And all the info in the articles need citations, or completed agreement between the wikipedians in order to be posted in the end. All the data in that article named the sources (mostly the census and the genetic studies in the nation) check out sources at the end of the article.

Earendil
Tuesday, September 5th, 2006, 10:45 AM
As far as I know chileans consider themselves as white and are quite proud of it.
This is very rare in the 21st century world. ; )

kharas
Wednesday, September 6th, 2006, 08:10 AM
In fact, Chilean people (I am talking in third person because I am not a "common" chilean) consider self as white, even when they are not strictly and 100% white.

This has it origins in the social system, where whitier ones are normally in higher class and the "more mestizos" in lower social classes. Pure or almost pure Aborigins are an external class, which mainly corresponds to medium and higher low class. So we have a double factor in race, even, here is common to talk about blonde schools when you are talking about the ones in sectors like Las Condes, because white people and colonies tend to be from the high class.

So it is a class and race system, wich is hardiest to destruct than only race or only class.

Jote
Wednesday, November 29th, 2006, 08:25 PM
hello, i'm from Chile, I've german anscestry from the side of my mother. I'm direct descendant from the lisper family, that arribed in Valparaiso just after the independence.

fms panzerfaust
Thursday, November 30th, 2006, 12:55 AM
Hmm, this is some piece of news...Chileans predominantly "white"? What a surprise, I thought that Chile remained predominantly mestizo, a legacy from Colonial times -and having this "thought" (which I hold more as a fact rather than a "thought" ) confirmed by relatives who have been there, and from the Chileans (from diverse social backgrounds) I've actually met, I'm dumbfounded by what you've written.
Oh, another thing: bear in mind that the rank and file of all South American armies are and have been of mixed racial origins (mestizos and/or mulattoes). So, most of the times it was "cholos" vs. "cholos"...The only "white" units were mercenaries from Europe (often Germans). There may have been some other exceptions throughout "our" (I hate to generalize like this) history, but what I’ve said applies to the whole of Latin America.




Well, "expanisonism" can be seen from both sides. All you "own" from Chiloé southwards is because of Chilean expansionism and opportunism. While in Colonial times those territories belonged to the Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata" and were not part of the "Capitanía de Chile" (which would later be "Chile"), once we broke free from the Spainiards we (Argentineans), as former seat of the Viceroyalty, inherited such territories. However, this was all theoretical for Spanish civilization had never reached such unexplored corners. It was in the 1840's, if I recall correctly, when, urged by an Argie, Domingo F. Sarmiento (who would later become President of Argentina), Chileans sent expeditions to take such lands from the natives. Well, the whole history is much more complex, to be more thorough we should go through all the later territorial disputes…but the point is that initial claim was certainly ours, and thus we can see where true "expansionism" came from.:)

Well, speaking of territories, I think we should bomb Acre to the ground till it becomes a lake, lake Acre, what do you think? We can use some machines to dig on it till we have a little internal sea in South America. Besides, nobody wants Acre anyway, except the bolivian government. We can drown them in, so that they dont complain anymore about the useless territory that they sold for a horse (according to what their president said). :D

kharas
Wednesday, December 6th, 2006, 02:46 AM
Well, speaking of territories, I think we should bomb Acre to the ground till it becomes a lake, lake Acre, what do you think? We can use some machines to dig on it till we have a little internal sea in South America. Besides, nobody wants Acre anyway, except the bolivian government. We can drown them in, so that they dont complain anymore about the useless territory that they sold for a horse (according to what their president said). :D

I do not know that history... tell me more of that...

Well, after all... they are just bolindians:D

Jote
Wednesday, December 6th, 2006, 03:15 AM
Who has information about the regions of Germany where the settlers came from?

Dr. Solar Wolff
Wednesday, December 6th, 2006, 05:53 AM
Well, I am interested in the German communities of both Chile and Argentina. Carlton Coon did mention the word "Cholos" if I am not mistaken and assigned that word to a hybrid population near Terra del Feugo. I do not speak Spanish but in California, "Cholo" means gangster.

People have told me that the German communities of South America are closed to outsiders in terms of communications. This was especially true after WW2. After a wave of Germans settled there in the late 1940's it seems that a curtain was drawn and information was hard to get. For instance, at this time the Chilean-Argentinian border region was settled, in Peron times, by Germans and a Colonia Dignidad, a state within a state, was formed. Nowadays, I have learned that this Colonia Dignidad is run by sexual perverts and gangsters but perhaps that was not always true. I am wondering at the extent of former Nazi penetration into the Andes region of South America and their actual political impact on the two countries there.

Here
Wednesday, December 6th, 2006, 07:14 AM
Well, I am interested in the German communities of both Chile and Argentina. Carlton Coon did mention the word "Cholos" if I am not mistaken and assigned that word to a hybrid population near Terra del Feugo. I do not speak Spanish but in California, "Cholo" means gangster.

People have told me that the German communities of South America are closed to outsiders in terms of communications. This was especially true after WW2. After a wave of Germans settled there in the late 1940's it seems that a curtain was drawn and information was hard to get. For instance, at this time the Chilean-Argentinian border region was settled, in Peron times, by Germans and a Colonia Dignidad, a state within a state, was formed. Nowadays, I have learned that this Colonia Dignidad is run by sexual perverts and gangsters but perhaps that was not always true. I am wondering at the extent of former Nazi penetration into the Andes region of South America and their actual political impact on the two countries there.




I don't know what cholo means but is a word used by some chileans i've heard on tv.

About Germans don't mixing with other populations in Argentina. Well, that's not true in the case of big cities where German surnames which are indeed the most popular surnames in Buenos AIres, after Italian first and Spanish (including Basques), tho slavic names (Russian, Polish) come close. You can find plenty of people of with German surnames but who are also part italian, spanish, french, etc.

Now in the case of German towns founding by Germans, the traditional and cultural values are more presevedthat happen in any small cities and towns always i guess, while in a big city like Buenos Aires where you can find like 30 ethnicities living together you can hardly expect a true cultural preservation without mix with the other ethnicities.

In Center Argentina, the second most important oktoberfest in L. America is celebrated while Brazil has the biggest outside of Germany. in a city like Gral. Belgrano where most of the people is German. Most of the Volga Germans that account for over a million live in northeast Argentina.

Another city founded by Germans immigrants but also by immigrant from Switzerland, France, Italy, Belgium and Luxembourg was Esperanza in center Argentina in the mid-19th, its population obviously mixed between them. It was one of the first cities to be founded in 1840, second in the province.

While in the Argentinian Patagonia (that accounts for more than 2/3 of the Patagonia) was in fact founded for both German and Swiss (and Austrians in the case of Bariloche, probably the most important city in Patagonia, founded by Carlos Wiederhold), and some nothern Italians too, after the "Conquest of the desert", (a controversial campaign by the Argentine government, to eliminated the region's nomad aborigen tribes). Except for the Chubut province where the most important cities where founded by Welsh Trelew, Gaiman, Pto. Madryn etc...

in the south you have mennonites village too, but they live in teir own world you know, they hae nothing to do with the construction and population of the country, the govermment also gave them the lands in the 19th century after the conquest of the desert. ;)

Anyway i'll share this family story a woman, neighbor of mine who great-gradfather (who was German and his wife too) back in the late 19th was a soldier at the Fortines (fortresses) who fight against indians who attacked cities and kill people. Her daughter wanted to marry this man who was part indian, and his dad who was quite rich get angry with her he left her without the herency and left her in the streets.

I guess that was a time when you could be racialist without people think you were the worst person on earth.

The other time i only said to a girl immigration should be controled and she freak out and almost told me i was the worst kind of racist).

I guess that if you avoid you daughter marry a black man you'll be hated for the rest of your life!

SuedKamerad
Friday, December 15th, 2006, 12:50 AM
Well I´m new in Skadi Forum, I´m from Südchile, Región de Los Lagos, and I didn´t that in this forum the chilean germans having a space

Saludos desde el Sur, la Tierra de la Colonización alemana, efectuada por nuestro Padre Identitario: Don Bernardo Phillipi.

our website htt://ksscs.wordpress.com

http://z.about.com/d/gosouthamerica/1/0/1/a/2161868.jpg
*******

Proposal to German Chilean Community

Now days the German community in Chile is not organized and so separate, we need united for our future in Chilean society. Especially in south Chile, because the South is our Land. Here our great father created a new civilization and today the Chilean centralist “culture” destroyed this beautiful project.
I propose that we’ll create a German virtual community by a blog or I don’t know, with our history, our tradition and our presence in the society, and with this site, we maybe, will be know new German people in Chile and organization a German Group. This Chilean German people will be so, so respectful with the Kaiserreich period.

What do you think?


Who has information about the regions of Germany where the settlers came from?

hi, if Settlers are "colonos", they came from Hamburg principaly and Saxony and Bavaria (Valdivia, they`re catholic).

bye

Jwam
Sunday, December 17th, 2006, 01:16 AM
As far as I know the only countries in south america predominantly whites are uruguay and argentina

joseanton
Monday, December 18th, 2006, 04:50 PM
Well, I am interested in the German communities of both Chile and Argentina. Carlton Coon did mention the word "Cholos" if I am not mistaken and assigned that word to a hybrid population near Terra del Feugo. I do not speak Spanish but in California, "Cholo" means gangster.



About cholo word, it means mestizo, but in Peru is flexible, to europids, it means mestizos and indians, to mestizos it means darker mestizos and to darker mestizos means indians, is a despective word, and if you feel superior of other one you say him cholo, I use to say, if you are not white nor black nor aisatic you are cholo.

Is also a cultural term too, to the culture of mestizaje, but officialy everybody is cholo in Peru (in schools as an example, remember that there are 15% of minorities whites, blacks, asiatics, etc) in fact there are not stadistics 15% is my personal guess.

Horagalles
Monday, December 18th, 2006, 05:27 PM
About cholo word, it means mestizo, but in Peru is flexible, to europids, it means mestizos and indians, to mestizos it means darker mestizos and to darker mestizos means indians, is a despective word, and if you feel superior of other one you say him cholo, I use to say, if you are not white nor black nor aisatic you are cholo....That sounds like Kaffir in South Africa. Interestingly Almost all the ethnic/racial groups have names for the other ones. The Blacks call us (Germanics in general) MaBuru .... But it doesn't make us feel inferior;).


Germans in Chile. I remember something of "Colonia Dignidad"....

joseanton
Monday, December 18th, 2006, 11:15 PM
the other groups call blancones (similar to white) to whites and light skin mestizos (to them almost the same :thumbdown ), or even gringos :D , peru is a very racist country

Aeternitas
Tuesday, December 19th, 2006, 12:27 AM
Who has information about the regions of Germany where the settlers came from?
I found some information regarding this on the following site:
http://www.genealogienetz.de/reg/WELT/chile.html


[...]The minister in charge, Vicente Perez Rosales, consulted a friend who was at that time Chilean Consul in Hamburg. His friend insisted on inviting Germans who were already in an emigration mood especially in areas such as Baden-Württemberg (http://forums.skadi.net/gene/reg/BAD-WUE/BW.html) and the Black Forest, (http://forums.skadi.net/gene/reg/geo-reg.html#blackforest)as the landscape of southern Chile with its lakes, rivers and forests would be an attractive and familiar enviroment similar to the one to which they were accustomed. Massive emigration is usually triggered by poor living conditions in the homeland. Migrants therefore are usually mostly poor and unskilled. This is also the case of the Spaniards of Galicia and the Italians from Southern Italy who emigrated in large numbers to Argentina, (http://forums.skadi.net/gene/reg/WELT/argentina.html) as well as the Irish, Poles, Mecklenburgian (http://forums.skadi.net/gene/reg/MEC/mec.html) Germans who did so to the United States. (http://forums.skadi.net/gene/reg/WELT/usa.html) However, the migration of Germans to Chile was less important in terms of quantity than of quality.
The first German colonisation was at the Llanquihue lake and in the Frontera. Encouraged by these first successes in 1846 by Philippi, thirty settlers from Hessen (http://forums.skadi.net/gene/reg/HES) were recruited for Bella Vista. A further 1,000 Germans followed in 1848, mostly inspired by the events of the revolution to begin a new life overseas; besides craftsmen, many university graduates were involved. Arriving in 1851, their numbers were supplemented by skilled workers (beer-brewers, tanners, furniture makers) and included academics such as pharmacists, professors and scientific investigators. In 1852 Germans founded Deutsche Player Maiten, Volcan and Puerto Octay, as well as in 1853, Puerto Montt. Llanquihue, Frutillar and Puerto Varas were settled with Germans in the same year. Between 1872-75, Nordboehmer Quilanto, lot Bajos, El Carril, Linea Plantanosa and new Braunau started. To the settlement of Germans in Valdivia Fritz Kindermann and Karl Anwandter contributed much. In the Frontera (area between the rivers Biobio and Tolten) were settled primarily colonists from Brandenburg, (http://forums.skadi.net/gene/reg/BRG) Pomerania (http://forums.skadi.net/gene/reg/POM) and Switzerland. (http://forums.skadi.net/gene/reg/CH) Many Germans moved also into the cities Valparaiso, Santiago, Temuco, Conception, Ancud and Magellanes. They had to endure hard times during the first years in the wilderness, but with determination they gradually became prominent and a most respected segment of Chilean society.

SuedKamerad
Tuesday, December 19th, 2006, 01:32 AM
This month is our most important month of year, because in december of 1852 the first german came to "Llanquehue See". 154 year ago!!

bye

Horagalles
Tuesday, December 19th, 2006, 08:14 AM
the other groups call blancones (similar to white) to whites and light skin mestizos (to them almost the same :thumbdown ), or even gringos :D , peru is a very racist countryIs Peru a very racially mixed Country. That would be evidence for my thesis that race-mixing leads to even more racism, unlike the claims made by "liberals".

A good example are the Coloureds in South Africa they openly profess their hate for Blacks....

joseanton
Tuesday, December 19th, 2006, 03:40 PM
Sorry for the off topic

If you want to take a look at the minorities of Peru

Non-aboriginals minorities
http://forums.skadi.net/peruvian_minorities-t83445.html

Aboriginal minorities
http://forums.skadi.net/diferences_between_quechua_and_aymara_in dians-t61448.html

The mayority is mestizo

kharas
Wednesday, December 27th, 2006, 06:59 PM
Germans in Chile. I remember something of "Colonia Dignidad"....
uff.. Colonia Dignidad, the "model farm", when germans arrive, it was an awful place, a few years after it, it works as a micro State.

But Schäffer interferes with the Red-Bishop Carlos Camus plains and in 60's Patricio Aylwin (who was his Lawyer (abogado)) lost a judicial referendum against them, and then, he swear to destroy Villa Baviera.

In 1990, when Augusto Pinochet government ends and it's succesor was Patricio Aylwin, this last, in one of it firsts actions, revoke privileges to Villa Baviera, and some kids were paid to talk about paedophilia from Paul Schäffer (you can see TV investigations of that years), in 1997, it was a major problem, and prensa, and a Socialist Senator, Naranjo (the leftist senator of my district, other one (and mine) is H. Larraín, UDI, Right-Wing) use this to make himself famous, and start to attack it.
Last year, Schäffer was "captured" in Argentina and was condemned to 20 years... he is almost 90 now, if my memory do not fails...
With Naranjo were also Camus and a group of Human Rights Activists (Human Shit (sorry, I forgot a better synonimous) if you ask me), because Villa Baviera/Colonia Dignidad supports and offer services to General Pinochet's Government, to retain leftists rebelds and former UP dirigents of the zone.

About Southern Chile... it is BEAUTIFUL, german hands may be seen everywhere, architecture, a natural germanic landscape (with rivers that may guide us to think in Rhein, a lot of lake, low highness mountains, just like Europe, etc...) and many people had direct german ancestors, or some german influence.

Ahh, Karl Andwanter is still the name of the "Deutsche Schule" of Valdivia.

Combatent
Thursday, January 4th, 2007, 04:48 PM
A little contribution:

German colonization of Chile (Vintage pics).

Town of Frutillar

http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/4586/img1125yd1.jpg

http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/8504/img1109ff6.jpg

http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/6075/img1124tx5.jpg

http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/7049/img1128to9.jpg

Choroy
Wednesday, March 21st, 2007, 11:59 PM
Hi,

I spent part of my summer vacation in Frutillar, and I saw a lot of germans and mapuches married between them. This was very strange years ago.

kharas
Thursday, March 22nd, 2007, 02:41 AM
Hi,

I spent part of my summer vacation in Frutillar, and I saw a lot of germans and mapuches married between them. This was very strange years ago.

WHAT???!!! :( :thumbdown

Frutillar fall to multiculturalism? What a crap.

Maximum that I have seen by now was german with spanish descendants, but, with that ... apatrid indians?
"Take them tonight My Lord".

Choroy
Thursday, March 22nd, 2007, 05:20 PM
it's true, I would say that most of the chileans that have german anscestry are mixed with spanish, a few with indians, and a lot are unmixed. But this unmixed germans live in communities in the farm, when they go to the city to study or work they ussualy fall in love and marry with non german chileans.

Ulf
Monday, October 27th, 2008, 08:59 PM
Stumbled across this today.
------------------------------

In a remote part of Chile,
an evil German evangelist
built a utopia whose members helped
the Pinochet regime perform
its foulest deeds


[D]eep in the Andean foothills of Chile’s central valley lives a group of German expatriates, the members of a utopian experiment called Colonia Dignidad. They have resided there for decades, separate from the community around them, but widely known and admired, and respected for their cleanliness, their wealth, and their work ethic. Their land stretches across 70 square miles, rising gently from irrigated farmland to low, forested hills, against a backdrop of snowcapped mountains. Today Colonia Dignidad is partially integrated with the rest of Chile. For decades, however, its isolation was nearly complete. Its sole connection to the outside world was a long dirt road that wound through tree farms and fields of wheat, corn, and soybeans, passed through a guarded gate, and led to the center of the property, where the Germans lived in an orderly Bavarian-style village of flower gardens, water fountains, and cream-colored buildings with orange tile roofs. The village had modern apartment complexes, two schools, a chapel, several meetinghouses, and a bakery that produced fresh cakes, breads, and cheeses. There were numerous animal stables, two landing strips, at least one airplane, a hydroelectric power station, and mills and factories of various kinds, including a highly profitable gravel mill that supplied raw materials for numerous road-building projects throughout Chile. On the north side of the village was a hospital, where the Germans provided free care to thousands of patients in one of the country’s poorest areas.

All this was made possible by one man, a charismatic, Evangelical preacher named Paul Schaefer, who founded the community and who, until several years ago, remained very much in charge. Tall, lean, and of strong build, with thin gray hair and a glass eye, Schaefer lived most of his adult life in Chile but possessed only a rudimentary knowledge of Spanish; like his followers, he spoke primarily in German. Although the colonos of Colonia Dignidad dressed in traditional German peasant clothes—the men in wool pants and suspenders, the women in homemade dresses and headscarves—Schaefer wore newer, more modern clothes that denoted his stature. His manner was serious; he seldom smiled. The effect only deepened the sense of mystery that surrounded him.

Few outsiders ever gained access to the Colonia while its reclusive leader remained in power. An old Chilean newsreel, however, filmed at Schaefer’s invitation in 1981, provides a rare picture of life inside the community, a utopia in full and happy bloom. The footage shows a bucolic paradise of sunshine and verdant fields set among clean, fast-flowing rivers and snowy peaks. Its German inhabitants improve the land and work their trades. A carpenter assembles a new chair for the Colonia’s school. A woman in a white apron bakes German-style torts and pastries in the kitchen. Teenaged boys clear a new field for planting. Children laugh and splash in a lake. Schaefer himself, wearing a white suit and brown aviator sunglasses, takes the camera crew on a tour. Standing next to the Colonia’s flour mill, he extols the quality of German machinery. “We bought this mill in Europe,” he says in broken Spanish. “It is 60 years old, but we have not had to do any repairs on it.” Even today, this remains one of the only known recordings of his voice. It is crisp and baritone. Back outside, Schaefer leads the television crew to a petting zoo, where the reporter feeds chunks of bread to baby deer and plays with the colonos’ collection of pet owls. The newsreel concludes with a performance by a 15-piece chamber orchestra composed of young, female colonos in flowing white skirts and colorful blouses. The music is beautiful and expertly played.

These images were a reflection of Colonia Dignidad as Schaefer wanted it to be seen. Today, a quarter century later, with Schaefer gone and his utopia open to visitors for the first time, it looks much the same. On a recent trip to Chile, I made the four-hour drive south from Santiago. The village remains an oasis of German tidiness, with blooming flower gardens and perfectly tended copses of willows and pines. As I walked through it, there were very few people on the streets, and those I encountered smiled politely, then quickly retreated indoors. They did not invite conversation. I was reminded of what a Chilean friend, a journalist, had told me as I prepared for my visit. “You will get the uneasy feeling of crossing into some sort of twilight zone,” he had said. “You will see the way they dress, their haircuts. It’s like going back in time to Germany in the 1940s. Even though it is easier to talk to the colonos than it was a few years ago, things are still a long way from being ‘normal.’ Most of them are still quite afraid of speaking openly.”

The truth, so unlikely in this setting, is that Colonia Dignidad was founded on fear, and it is fear that still binds it together. Investigations by Amnesty International and the governments of Chile, Germany, and France, as well as the testimony of former colonos who, over the years, managed to escape the colony, have revealed evidence of terrible crimes: child molestation, forced labor, weapons trafficking, money laundering, kidnapping, torture, and murder. Orchestrated by Paul Schaefer and his inner circle of trusted lieutenants, much of the abuse was initially directed inward as a means of conditioning the colonos to obey Schaefer’s commands. Later, after General Augusto Pinochet’s military junta seized power in Chile, the violence spilled onto the national stage. Schaefer, through an informal alliance with the Pinochet regime, allowed Colonia Dignidad to serve as a torture and execution center for the disposal of enemies of the state. The investigations continue. In the months preceding my visit, police found two large caches of military-grade weapons buried inside the compound. Parts of cars had also been unearthed, their vehicle identification numbers traced back to missing political dissidents. Even as I stood in Schaefer’s house drinking apple juice, elsewhere on the property a police forensics unit was excavating a mass grave thought to contain the decomposed remains of dozens of political prisoners.

More at Source (http://www.theamericanscholar.org/au08/torture-falconer.html)