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svenskfinsk
Thursday, February 2nd, 2006, 11:03 PM
What is the general opinion among German nationalists on these lost territories. Should the loss be accepted or should Germany strive for the return of the lost lands? Maybe even by military force?

Zyklop
Friday, February 3rd, 2006, 01:10 PM
What is the general opinion among German nationalists on these lost territories. Should the loss be accepted or should Germany strive for the return of the lost lands? Maybe even by military force?There is no dispute among German nationalists about the return of our Eastern territorries. The opinions on how to get them back differ of course.

Personally I don´t think we are in a position to solve this now. We first have to get in power and take care of internal problems. Afterwards we will have a look at "Poland". Postponed is not abandoned.

Sigurd
Friday, February 3rd, 2006, 01:49 PM
My personal opinion is:
First should there be a freedom for Southern Tyrol in Austria annexing it, then Austrian freedom shall be achieved by its annexation by Germany. Then we can look at Prussia which has to return to the Fatherland of course, by any means. Königsberg, Breslau und Danzig, kehret heim! :(

Well, but I agree with Zyklop, we are not in the position, and there are too many internal problems.
When you have posters like the "Familie Deutschland" one, and as long as $130 Abs. 1-3 (?) are still in force, you can't suspect there to be any German unity. :(
And of course our rate of unemployment, with the government too afraid to be "volksverhetzend" if they turn away immigrants. Hel, they give the last remaining work places to foreign workers for shouting "Asyl!", whilst there is not enough work places for German Youths.

In any case, I see a similar situation approaching like the one just over 70 years ago - too much foreign power, too much unemployment, etc. ; so I'm confident. :)

svenskfinsk
Friday, February 3rd, 2006, 03:43 PM
Yes of course I'm talking about a time when the internal problems are solved and a nationalist goverment is yet again in place :)

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=7575&stc=1&d=1138981460

:beer-smil

Death and the Sun
Friday, February 3rd, 2006, 03:50 PM
I would hate to see Germans consider those territories as forever lost, just as I hate it to see Finns consider the parts of Finland that are currently under Russian occupation as lost.

KraftAkt
Friday, February 3rd, 2006, 10:57 PM
There are rumours that Russia under Jelzin made the proposal to give Eastern Prussia back to Germany (now Kaliningrad), because they had no real use for it and it costs them a high ammount of money.

Helmut Kohl has rejected it though, because the Russians wanted 30 billion dollars.

Thruthheim
Saturday, February 4th, 2006, 12:06 AM
The area which is now Poland? Would that mean the Poles be mixed into the current German Population?

If so.. then :scratch:

If on the contrary, Poles were expelled into further Eastern Europe, well then i would have to say that is a backward road.
Would seem like de-ja-vu. And nationalist ambition could once again be the downfall.

svenskfinsk
Saturday, February 4th, 2006, 12:16 AM
And nationalist ambition could once again be the downfall.

Sad but true.

Lenny
Saturday, February 4th, 2006, 03:23 AM
Just as long as they abandon any claims to Northern Schleswig

Better yet would be if they abandon claims to Schleswig as a whole ;) Yes, if I had my way the whole of Schleswig would be given back to Denmark and the old Danish-German border would be restored, as seen in this proposal (http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8804/schleswigdenmark8hf.jpg). Schleswig had been part of Denmark for centuries before it was seized by the Germans, just as Silesia and Pommerania had been German territories for centuries until they were stolen by Stalin




There are rumours that Russia under Jelzin made the proposal to give Eastern Prussia back to Germany (now Kaliningrad), because they had no real use for it and it costs them a high ammount of money.

Helmut Kohl has rejected it though, because the Russians wanted 30 billion dollars.The end of the Cold War was about the best we could've hoped for considering that "hot war" was avoided. But it really is too bad for Germany that things didn't go slightly differently in the years 1989-1991, sure Western Germany and Central Germany (a.k.a "East" Germany) might have been re-united, but none of the territories of the true Eastern Germany were re-incorporated into the BRD, despite the total collapse of the Communists

newenstad
Saturday, February 4th, 2006, 03:45 PM
My personal opinion is:
First should there be a freedom for Southern Tyrol in Austria annexing it, then Austrian freedom shall be achieved by its annexation by Germany. Then we can look at Prussia which has to return to the Fatherland of course, by any means. Königsberg, Breslau und Danzig, kehret heim! :(


Like Sigurd I have my preference in the annexation of South Tyrol. But we never should forget the Sudetengerman areas as well...

Sigurd
Saturday, February 4th, 2006, 03:53 PM
Schleswig had been part of Denmark for centuries before it was seized by the Germans

This is only half true. They were independent duchies within the German Federation represented and ruled over by the Danish King if my memory serves me correctly. ;)

lei.talk
Saturday, February 4th, 2006, 05:41 PM
that is true.

national boundaries, as we understand them,
are relatively new in concept and application.

as i recall, napoleon first applied both
and global application was not established
until just before world war two(?).

Richard_
Monday, July 17th, 2006, 11:36 AM
Hello,

What do you think? Should Gemany get back his stolen land?


http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=41408

Thusnelda
Monday, July 17th, 2006, 12:42 PM
Austria and South-Tyrol. But not by military means.

Janus
Monday, July 17th, 2006, 12:43 PM
All the land where Germans are still the majority in the population and therefore I'm for Austria and Tyrol and maybe the small Belgian part coming back to Germany.

Tryggvi
Monday, July 17th, 2006, 03:22 PM
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/misc/de(1942.jpg

Deling
Monday, July 17th, 2006, 04:10 PM
If it would be necessary, Austria and the former German land in the west could very well be integrated into the FRG. It wouldn't mean much, except some bureaucratic problems (over 10 million people switching citizenships, pension funds, registration a.s.o). Expensive.

For Kaliningrad I believe it's more hope; it will probably "open up" in the future, so that Germans and others can move back there. A Baltic Hong Kong under Russian supervision.

The Czech and Polish land issues seems more complicated, and probably not solvable. As long as there is a federal republic, it also seems rather pointless.

Mannerheim
Monday, July 17th, 2006, 04:49 PM
http://www.taivaansusi.net/reich/eurooppa/NewEurope3.jpg

Janus
Monday, July 17th, 2006, 05:19 PM
[picture]

Sounds rather like the imperialism fantasies of a megalomaniac...

Mannerheim
Monday, July 17th, 2006, 05:29 PM
Sounds rather like the imperialism fantasies of a megalomaniac...

This kind of europe would sure be better than its now.

Janus
Monday, July 17th, 2006, 05:37 PM
This kind of europe would sure be better than its now.

Hypothetic! Eventually it's just one hegemon(e)y replaced by another.

Thusnelda
Monday, July 17th, 2006, 06:35 PM
This kind of europe would sure be better than its now.
Is this a hyptothetic map after the Axis won WW2? ;)

Allenson
Monday, July 17th, 2006, 06:39 PM
Being a Colonial--I'd better defer to Zyklop, Norgau, Phlegathon, Raven, Blutwolfin, et al.... ;)

Mannerheim
Monday, July 17th, 2006, 06:52 PM
Is this a hyptothetic map after the Axis won WW2? ;)

Yes it is though i believe that if Germany had won ww2 then this whole map would been one big Grossdeutschland. ;)

Galaico
Monday, July 17th, 2006, 07:18 PM
Is this a hyptothetic map after the Axis won WW2? ;)
No, it's Europe in 1943/1944. Italy had just signed the armistice with the Allies, and Mussolini founded the Italian Social Republic in the Northern part of the Italic Peninsula. Look at most Axis allies, their borders are pretty different as they had received territorial "gifts" for their loyalty to the III Reich:
-Hungary had received Western Transylvania, South Slovakia and the Vojvodina.
-Croatia had received Bosnia-Herzegovina and part of Serbia.
-Romania had received Besarabia.
-Albania had received Eastern Greece and Kosovo.
-Bulgary had received Thrace and Yugoslav Macedonia.

All those friends of Germany were going to change side quickly, as at that time War was already changing in favour of the Allies, especially in the Eastern front, were Soviet forces re-organised and quickly re-conquered much of their territory.

Siegfried
Tuesday, July 18th, 2006, 09:26 AM
I see no reason to place such limits on the expansion of our peoples.

Graf Spee
Tuesday, July 18th, 2006, 09:53 AM
No, it's Europe in 1943/1944. Italy had just signed the armistice with the Allies, and Mussolini founded the Italian Social Republic in the Northern part of the Italic Peninsula. Look at most Axis allies, their borders are pretty different as they had received territorial "gifts" for their loyalty to the III Reich:
-Hungary had received Western Transylvania, South Slovakia and the Vojvodina.
-Croatia had received Bosnia-Herzegovina and part of Serbia.
-Romania had received Besarabia.
-Albania had received Eastern Greece and Kosovo.
-Bulgary had received Thrace and Yugoslav Macedonia.


Sorry to object to your statement but although the map is very similar to the political situation in 43/44, Valkyrie is right it is hypothetical. It's from a finnish internet page and supposed to show the New Europe after an axis victory.
Look for example at Finland (Grossfinland)- the finnish in WW2 only wanted to recover the land they lost to the sovjets in 1940 (Thats one of the reasons they didn't participate in any major attack at Leningrad or the Murmansk Railway).
Also the Baltic states are much larger as they have been in WW2- during the war they had the same borders as before 1939. But nonetheless it is a fabulous map:thumbup I only think Germany has a little too much land East of Eastprussia;)

To the discussion of Germanies lost territories. I think that problem doesn't need to be resolved in the near future. There are far more serious problems all "white" europeans are facing now in the time of massimmigration. But I had an interesting discussion with an ultranationalist from Poland recently. And suprisingly he said that he didn't mind if Stettin or Breslau would become German once again. Same applies to the Sudentenland. I belive that if true nationalists from all the countries would sit together and search for an honest solution we would be able to find one, wich satisfies all sides. There are many good and decent people in all that countries we just have to belive in that and look for them.
One day when Germany and Europe is strong and proud again the problems will dissolve like water in the sun.

Galaico
Tuesday, July 18th, 2006, 10:15 AM
Sorry to object to your statement but although the map is very similar to the political situation in 43/44, Valkyrie is right it is hypothetical. It's from a finnish internet page and supposed to show the New Europe after an axis victory.
Look for example at Finland (Grossfinland)- the finnish in WW2 only wanted to recover the land they lost to the sovjets in 1940 (Thats one of the reasons they didn't participate in any major attack at Leningrad or the Murmansk Railway).
Also the Baltic states are much larger as they have been in WW2- during the war they had the same borders as before 1939. But nonetheless it is a fabulous map:thumbup I only think Germany has a little too much land East of Eastprussia;)

You're right it seems to be an hypothethical Europe, basing most of the borders on those of 1943. Even Northern Morocco is still part of the Spanish protectorate!
http://www.histoirealacarte.com/images/cartes_fixes/tome3/europe-janv1943.gif


Check out at this map, it was the SS wish for Europe:

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=65640&stc=1&d=1153214483

Mannerheim
Tuesday, July 18th, 2006, 11:11 AM
http://www.taivaansusi.net/reich/eurooppa/suursaksankartta.jpg
http://www.taivaansusi.net/reich/pic/newgermany.jpg

Some more maps

Janus
Tuesday, July 18th, 2006, 12:12 PM
Check out at this map, it was the SS wish for Europe:

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=65640&stc=1&d=1153214483


Sounds quite good eventhough I'd made some states different and included also some more eastern regions like ukraine.

Richard_
Tuesday, July 18th, 2006, 04:47 PM
Nice to hear, that the most national european are for germany getting his raped land back. Would you also support (in case of need military) germany getting the raped land back?

Gesta Bellica
Tuesday, July 18th, 2006, 09:07 PM
Not sure South Tyrol would spontaneausly join Germany nowadays

Jäger
Wednesday, July 19th, 2006, 12:14 AM
There is a political party which wants seperation from Italy and join back to Austria.

Oswiu
Wednesday, July 19th, 2006, 01:55 AM
Oesterreich obviously must join.

Kaliningrad has much potential for negotiation, though I wouldn't include now-Polish territories of East Prussia in this readjustment.

Poland lost much in the east in 45, and cannot be crippled now in the west. That would only lead to ill feeling and future tragedy. Perhaps that part of Hinterpommern that went as far as but did not include the Kaszub territories might be feasible. As I understand it historically, these lands belonged to a Slavonic Wendisch dynasty that voluntarily Germanised and was accepted by true German princes.

I dislike any proposal that ends up with the Czech lands in the middle of an all too obvious pincer, just waiting to snap! Therefore I am afraid that Schlesien might have to be given up.

The Sudetenland again is an awkward matter, if we are to continue to have a secure Czech state. Perhaps Egerland and Teplitz would be sufficient?

Eupen and Malmedy and so on, and Elsass need reattaching, though perhaps not all of the latter. Same goes for the Tirol; some compromise ought to be achievable, like in the case with the successful Schleswig border.

In an ideal world, every nation would have the right to selfrule, including the Lusatian Serbs. What would they wish for, however? I do not know.

Spjabork
Wednesday, July 19th, 2006, 03:08 AM
Not sure South Tyrol would spontaneausly join Germany nowadaysThat's true. The Italian government has - almost by force - caused some 50.000 Italians, mostly from southern Italy, to settle in South Tyrol, especially in and around Bozen. Now these aliens are treated as if they were the same company as the natives. They have the same say in all matters concerning Tyrol. Certainly they would not like Germany.

And then of course comes the brain wash. The Tyrolians were told in the last 60 years that all Germans are "Nazis" and that it is not good to belong to them. For that matter, it is much better to be an Italian Fascist. :D For the Italian Fascists at least cuddled the Jews and didn't gass them. :D :D

They also were told - very much the same way as in Elsass-Lothringen by the French government - that South Tyrol "never existed in history", and that this area since ancient times "belonged" to "Italy".

Though it was infact Italy which never existed in history till 1860. :D

Spjabork
Wednesday, July 19th, 2006, 05:05 AM
Is this a hyptothetic map after the Axis won WW2? ;)No. The map is pure fantasy. And it was sketched by an Italian, not German.


Yes it is though i believe that if Germany had won ww2 then this whole map would been one big Grossdeutschland. ;)Rubbish.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Wednesday, July 19th, 2006, 05:07 AM
Being a Colonial--I'd better defer to Zyklop, Norgau, Phlegathon, Raven, Blutwolfin, et al.... ;)


Allenson's response is correct since we have no stake in the matter, for me no first-hand knowledge, and someone would get pissed off by my ignorance. But there is another matter all of you are forgetting: German Antarctica-Neuschwabenland. Germany has a great legal claim to this land which is as follows in my mind:

1. Ritcher Expedition claims section of Antarctica for Germany, circa 1938, called Neuschwabenland.

2. Germany takes possessions of Denmark during World War Two which included Neuschwabenland's neighboring Danish land claim, Queen Maude Land.

3. Germany surrenders, but Doenitz surrenders only the three fighting forces of Germany, not the civillian govenrment of Germany.

4. About 1960-1961 a Treaty pledged a de-militarization of Antarctica. Germany did not sign nor could it because it was under occupation. There is a principle in the law, all law everywhere, which says anything anybody signs or agrees to under duress is invalid. At that time Germany was under duress.

5. 1991, Germay and former Allied Powers of Occupation, France, Britain, USA, Soviet Union do a treaty ending WW2. Denmark was not a part of this treaty.

So, Germany claimed Neuschwabenland and Queen Maude Land, never surrendered this land, never signed a treaty abridging this land now or ever. The "title" seems clear to me. Germany owns Neuschwabenland.

Spjabork
Wednesday, July 19th, 2006, 05:13 AM
Check out at this map, it was the SS wish for Europe:

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=65640&stc=1&d=1153214483It hardly can be the "SS-wish", for the border of Poland is exactly (and that of Rumania mostly) the same as after 1945.

J.B. Basset
Wednesday, July 19th, 2006, 08:11 AM
:) I would support any German vindication for lost land as soon as any German goverment would be ready to support a change of the actual "statuo quo" in the European Union. Those who require support must be ready to give support in exchange,;)

Spjabork
Wednesday, July 19th, 2006, 09:00 AM
:) I would support any German vindication for lost land as soon as any German goverment would be ready to support a change of the actual "statuo quo" in the European Union. Those who require support must be ready to give support in exchange,;)Could you explain, please, what exactly you mean by that? In a linguistical sense, 'change' is a so called "not very meaningful word". I. e. it must always be further specified. ;)

Jäger
Wednesday, July 19th, 2006, 09:14 AM
I doubt so. One big Grossdeutschland including so many non-German territories?
German territories are where germans live.

Siegfried
Wednesday, July 19th, 2006, 09:30 AM
German territories are where germans live.

Agreed, and Europe is where Europeans live, wherever that may be.

J.B. Basset
Wednesday, July 19th, 2006, 10:09 AM
Could you explain, please, what exactly you mean by that? In a linguistical sense, 'change' is a so called "not very meaningful word". I. e. it must always be further specified. ;)










:) Claiming for those "territories" obviously would imply a "change" in the actual "statu quo" of the European Union. Some "national" goverments would not see it gratefully. But if European Union was composed upon an ethnic and cultural basis it would be easier to claim for those territories. An "ethnic" Europan Union probably would be more sympathetic who knows?

Jäger
Wednesday, July 19th, 2006, 10:20 AM
So, Germans don't live in all the territories on that map. That's why it's not german :)

My notion comes rather from the statement of expansion, like Germany should only get german land back, then what is german land?
Now there are living Poles so it is polish land, we have as much right to get this polish land back as we have the right to get any land we want.

To the question what land Germany should get, the answer can only be: As much as Germany needs. :)

One has to consider what the german people actually are though, so that doesn't mean everyone else should get exterminated :P
Race is the base :D

Spjabork
Wednesday, July 19th, 2006, 10:32 AM
That's why it's not german :)Sorry, but I disagree. Though I am not impartial nor impassionate on that, for both my parents were born in the now lost territories, towards the end of the war.

My notion comes rather from the statement of expansion, like Germany should only get german land back, then what is german land?
As I wrote in the "Did Stalin...?" thread: East Prussia and Silesia have been German since the middle of the 13th century. They are more German than any overseas territories are English.

Now there are living Poles so it is polish land, we have as much right to get this polish land back as we have the right to get any land we want.As my father always said: the Poles, also the Checks don't do much in these border areas. Go there and have a look. They themselves expect that they must leave them some day.

To the question what land Germany should get, the answer can only be: As much as Germany needs. :)I think we need Silesia. ;) The Empress Maria Theresia said: "Without the pearl Silesia the whole Hapsburg Crown is worthless."

Jäger
Wednesday, July 19th, 2006, 10:34 AM
Well after rethinking I agree, not totally though, afterall most of the achievments in architecture and infrastructure are german, so yes, abit more justified :)

Zyklop
Wednesday, July 19th, 2006, 10:50 AM
As I wrote in the "Did Stalin...?" thread: East Prussia and Silesia have been German since the middle of the 13th century.They have been Germanic much longer than that. The name "Silesia" refers to a tribe of the Vandals.

http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=29174

Jäger
Wednesday, July 19th, 2006, 12:49 PM
Well, why would we want more land in the first place?

Why do people need land?

I am not saying I don't want these territories back, I voted 1918 actually, but justification comes with strength, nothing else.

Gesta Bellica
Wednesday, July 19th, 2006, 01:00 PM
That's true. The Italian government has - almost by force - caused some 50.000 Italians, mostly from southern Italy, to settle in South Tyrol, especially in and around Bozen. Now these aliens are treated as if they were the same company as the natives. They have the same say in all matters concerning Tyrol. Certainly they would not like Germany.

And then of course comes the brain wash. The Tyrolians were told in the last 60 years that all Germans are "Nazis" and that it is not good to belong to them. For that matter, it is much better to be an Italian Fascist. :D For the Italian Fascists at least cuddled the Jews and didn't gass them. :D :D

They also were told - very much the same way as in Elsass-Lothringen by the French government - that South Tyrol "never existed in history", and that this area since ancient times "belonged" to "Italy".

Though it was infact Italy which never existed in history till 1860. :D

I was talking about South Tyrolians' opinion and not about what Italian residents may think, which is irrilevant
The latest surveys published in Italy, commissioned by a branch of SVP party, denoted that actually around the 60% of the interviewed people want the separation of their nation from Italy and that half of this 60% wants to join Austria while the other haf would prefer an indipendent South Tyrol

Considering the source of this survey (a nationalistic party) it's rather unprobable that they interviewed ethnic Italians asking to decide South Tyrol's fate..and even if they did that, still the division inside that 60% make me think that perhaps the idea of a great Germany is not seen so positively in this side of the Brenner tunnel ;)

btw, Italians are not treated in the same way as South Tyrolians, in the Bozen county they have some special laws that define pretty clearly some distinct lines between the local population and the immigrants, for example in each municipality public workplaces are assignated according to the percentage of the resident Italian/South Tyroleans, perhaps you should get more infos next time :D

Mannerheim
Wednesday, July 19th, 2006, 11:09 PM
Well i surely support that all lands what have been german for ages and what after the ww2 was plundered, should give back to germans.Or should i say that the map of Germany in august 1939 would be rather correct.

Though modern Germany seems to be rather divided and polluted my multiculturalism like whole europe but still..




Nice to hear, that the most national european are for germany getting his raped land back. Would you also support (in case of need military) germany getting the raped land back?


Im afraid this matter depend only from politics and military operation is closed option. ;)

But if EU would decide together that it wants the borders of the 1939,it would sure be more realistic.

http://adrianchapman.com/maps/europe_1939aug_800x720.jpg

Gefjon
Thursday, November 1st, 2007, 08:13 PM
German lost territories after the Versailles treaty.

http://i26.tinypic.com/fm6m3o.jpg

English translations:
Lost - but not forgotten country
(Verlorenes - doch nicht vergessenes Land)

You must carve in your heart these words, as in stone:
What we have lost, will be regained!
--Paul Warncke
(Ins Herz sollst du dir graben Dies Wort als wie in Stein:
Was wir verloren haben, Darf nicht verloren sein!)

Germany 1871-1918

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Deutsches_Reich1.png/597px-Deutsches_Reich1.png

German colonies at the beginning of WWI

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/Deutsche_Kolonien.PNG/800px-Deutsche_Kolonien.PNG

Greater Germany 1943

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/be/GDR.png/716px-GDR.png

Whatcha think, would it be a realistic scenario? Maybe at least Austria if it were possible?

Drakkar
Thursday, November 1st, 2007, 08:19 PM
I'm proud to have some Alsatian German heritage, and it's a shame it had to be handed over yet again for the 4th (?) time after WW2.

Thusnelda
Friday, January 4th, 2008, 06:18 PM
Ostpreußen and Schlesien are settled with Slaves now, I think it makes no sense to claim it back.

But it would be nice if Österreich/Austria would come back to Germany. And South Tyrolia, of course. Because South Tyrol is not Italy!

Gefjon
Friday, January 4th, 2008, 06:22 PM
I heard there still are Germans in East Prussia/Silesia, the few who weren't expelled, and some others who were slavified. There are Italians settling in South Tyrol too. :confused:

-jmw-
Friday, January 4th, 2008, 06:44 PM
Whatcha think, would it be a realistic scenario? Maybe at least Austria if it were possible?
South Tyrol is possible because there's no Staatsvertrag (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_State_Treaty).

Austria would be possible only after constitutional reforms.
I think no one today would hinder a reunification if backed by popular referendum, but there would have to be major political changes before that.

Alsace and Lorraine are french and should stay this;
northern Schleswig was danish for the last thousand years.

Concerning the Ostgebiete (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostgebiete), there's no possibility to get back most parts of Westpreussen, Posen and Oberschlesien other than through a war.
It may be possible to regain the borders of 1937 in a peaceful manner, but it's not likely and, anyways, we would need official backing from Russia for that - which we will not get.

Legally possible furthermore would be a reunification with the Low Franconian speaking areas in the west - but, as we know, this idea is popular neither in Germany nor in the Netherlands or Flanders.

Amorsite
Friday, January 4th, 2008, 06:57 PM
Yes Germany should regain its territories, but I can think of many other things and far more important that should happen first: ie germans should not become extinct. Other European war for terrirorial purposes should not happen. I also don't think Austrians and or Swiss-Germans should be included in Germany unless there is a better regime ruling there.

Æmeric
Friday, January 4th, 2008, 07:26 PM
I don't really care as long as it doesn't envolve the US. As had already been stated any change in borders would require the support of Russia or war would erupt. Also, many of those territories now have Slavic populations. What would happen to all those Poles, Russians & Czechs.

Btw, when was Venezuela ever part of the Greater Reich?

Gefjon
Friday, January 4th, 2008, 07:33 PM
I don't really care as long as it doesn't envolve the US.
I hope it won't this time. :p

As had already been stated any change in borders would require the support of Russia or war would erupt. Also, many of those territories now have Slavic populations. What would happen to all those Poles, Russians & Czechs.
The Poles, Russians & Czechs would be sent back to what would be left of Poland (oops, not much), Russia and the Czech Republic after the reunification? :D

Btw, when was Venezuela ever part of the Greater Reich?
Uh?

Æmeric
Friday, January 4th, 2008, 08:14 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/Deutsche_Kolonien.PNG/800px-

This map shows Venezuela has having some sort of relationship to the Greater Reich.:confused:

-jmw-
Friday, January 4th, 2008, 08:18 PM
Btw, when was Venezuela ever part of the Greater Reich?
There were attempts to colonize parts of Venezuela some hundred years ago.


Edit: German Colonization of the Americas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_colonization_of_the_Americas)

Thusnelda
Friday, January 4th, 2008, 08:19 PM
There are Italians settling in South Tyrol too. :confused:
But the main culture is Tirolerisch, and the majority are Tiroler nonetheless. Time can´t change these facts. There is a big streaming in South Tyrol to split up from Italy to 100%. This hasn´t changed in the last few decades.

Just view that emotional video about the South Tyrolian resistance against the Italian annection. Take your time! :)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4841036893462888218&hl=de


Website: http://suedtiroler-freiheit.com/content/view/71/1/

Elysium
Friday, January 4th, 2008, 09:42 PM
Everything which was included in the Reich between Hitler's reign.

-jmw-
Friday, January 4th, 2008, 10:17 PM
Everything which was included in the Reich between Hitler's reign.
Even those territories which had been polish, czech and slovenian during the last thousand years?

Soldier of Wodann
Friday, January 4th, 2008, 10:30 PM
Alsace and Lorraine are french and should stay this;

This one personally bothers me, have you ever been there? Firstly there is no geographic nor cultural boundary between Alsace-Lorraine and the Rhineland, just one of government. There are obviously some French there, but then again there are some Turks in Berlin too. Is that a lost cause too? ;) And anyway, the few French are not too foriegn to be assimilated, since they are few in number anyway (especially in the Eastern parts, which are practically entirely German).

As for the Eastern Lands, I don't really care who inhabits the majority of it after a Soviet purge. They are doing a piss poor job of running it (they are Slavs after all, who'd have thought? :rolleyes: ) and hardly are worthy of their own land. The fact they own it now is irrelevant, I'd perfer to eliminate things done by the Soviets, not cater to their purges and anti-Germanism.

As for what should happen to the Slavs, who cares? They don't seem to have a problem with immigrating, I am sure they will figure something out.

Northern Schleswig is fine Danish though, not too concerned about that one.

Loddfafner
Friday, January 4th, 2008, 11:44 PM
Wasn't there serious attempt to retrieve Koenigsberg after the collapse of the Soviet Union?

æþeling
Friday, January 4th, 2008, 11:51 PM
It's pretty rare for any state to hand land over on a plate so it's not conceivable that Poland would willingly hand over pretty much everything from the Oder to the Vistula. Borders change, eastern Germany was once Slavic land, what is now England once belonged to the Celts and south-east Scotland was part of England long before it became part of Scotland.

Aragorn
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 07:36 AM
I do not see the need for having German colonies. We live in the 21th century, and like it or not, the era of colonialism has ended.

The aim should be unification of what is considered as originally and historically German land.

-Austria or Ostmark, as its German by history, culture and language. This include the tiny state of Lichtenstein.

- Southern Tyrol and Kanaltal

- German-speaking part of Switzerland, including the city of Freiburg and Rhaeto-Romanic areas.

- Elsass-Lothringen, including Belfort

- Luxemburg, including Arel (Arlon)

- German-speaking areas of Belgium, including the Herverland

-Nord Schleswig

- Sudetenland, including Böhmen-Mähren

- Memelland

-Ostpreussen, Westpreussen, Schlesien, Ost Oberschlesien, Warteland, Danzig, Pommern, Ostbrandenburg, city of Kalisch.

- Unter Kärnten and Unter Steiermark

- Ost Burgenland, including Pressburg



Iam realistic, to have this state wont be overnight. War is the only possibility. Thereis no question that all these areas historically are German. The Elsass is today more French-speaking then German, however, that does not change a fact. Thye Elsatians are still German by blood and they just need Germanization. My grandfather was Eastprussian, and there is no way I will ever recognize Polish occupation. It is German area. The Polonized Germans need re-Germanization, the other Poles need resettle elswhere, same is for Königsberg are and Sudetenland.

In other words: Germany need to re-established in its borders of 1914, including its expansions till 1938, and including German-speaking areas which belongs to the Reich.

Lets not forget: the borders of 1914 were international recognized borders. The treaty of Versailles does not jistified anything. It was an agreement of traitors and occupiders. The Anschluss of Austria and Sudetenland were recognized internationall

Zitat von Udo Voigt:

Über die deutsche Frage muss noch geredet werden. Breslau, Danzig, Königsberg und Stettin sind deutsche Städte wie Berlin. Wir müssen zusammenstehen und wenn wir es schaffen, das nationale Lager zu einigen, werden wir es schaffen, das deutsche Volk zu einigen, und dann werden wir die Verräter hinwegwerfen.

Elysium
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 08:12 AM
Even those territories which had been polish, czech and slovenian during the last thousand years?

Depends if they have Germans as the majority. However, for a more hardline rule, I'll say no to that answer and exclude them from my first reply.

Soldier of Wodann
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 09:17 AM
Borders change, eastern Germany was once Slavic land, what is now England once belonged to the Celts and south-east Scotland was part of England long before it became part of Scotland.

That was quite a long time ago, they are obviously imcomparable. Germany's land was taken a mere 62 years ago, that is certainly within the amount of time to reclaim it as German, whereas Celts reclaiming England isn't.

Jäger
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 10:42 AM
But the main culture is Tirolerisch, and the majority are Tiroler nonetheless. Time can´t change these facts.
Sorry, but it can. Just have a look at the Balkan.

As for the question, a great mind already thought about this:

The foreign policy of the folkish state must safeguard the existence on this planet of the race embodied in the state, by creating a healthy, viable natural relation between the nation's population and growth on the one hand and the quantity and quality of its soil on the other hand.
As a healthy relation we may regard only that condition which assures the sustenance of a people on its own soil. Every other condition, even if it endures for hundreds, nay, thousands of years, is nevertheless unhealthy and will sooner or later lead to the injury if not annihilation of the people in question.


The demand for restoration of the frontiers of 1914 is a political absurdity of such proportions and consequences as to make it seem a crime. Quite aside from the fact that the Reich's frontiers in 1914 were anything but logical. For in reality they were neither complete in the sense of embracing the people of German nationality, nor sensible with regard to geomilitary expediency. They were not the result of a considered political action, but momentary frontiers in a political struggle that was by no means concluded; partly, in fact, they were the results of chance. With equal right and in many cases with more right, some other sample year of German history could be picked out, and the restoration of the conditions at that time declared to be the aim of an activity in foreign affairs. The above demand is entirely suited to our bourgeois society, which here as elsewhere does not possess a single creative political idea for the future, but lives only in the past, in fact, in the most immediate past; for even their backward gaze does not extend beyond their own times.
A. Hitler, Mein Kampf, Eastern Orientation or Eastern Policy.

So, we take what we need, not more not less, who lives where is not a justification of any sort.

Gefjon
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 11:01 AM
Wasn't there serious attempt to retrieve Koenigsberg after the collapse of the Soviet Union?
If what I heard's correct I think there was, the Russians offered and there was gonna be some sum paid for it but the self-hating German traitors refused to take it.

Sorry, but it can. Just have a look at the Balkan.

As for the question, a great mind already thought about this:



A. Hitler, Mein Kampf, Eastern Orientation or Eastern Policy.

So, we take what we need, not more not less, who lives where is not a justification of any sort.
Germans need lebensraum but who lives there matters methinks, if it's Germans they will blend in easier with the population of Germany and adapt their lifestyle, if it's only Polaks or Italians they will have a harder time being germanized. ;) That's why it makes more sense to create lebensraum in the former German lands, there is still some German history there. If Germany expands over non-German lands that's expansionist policy and not taking back what's hers.

æþeling
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 11:55 AM
Originally Posted by Soldier of Wodann
That was quite a long time ago, they are obviously imcomparable. Germany's land was taken a mere 62 years ago, that is certainly within the amount of time to reclaim it as German, whereas Celts reclaiming England isn't.

I think it's quite comparable, grudges last a long time, the Welsh have never forgotten their very word for England Lloegyr means "Lost Lands".

Jäger
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 12:08 PM
Germans need lebensraum but who lives there matters methinks, if it's Germans they will blend in easier with the population of Germany and adapt their lifestyle, if it's only Polaks or Italians they will have a harder time being germanized. ;) That's why it makes more sense to create lebensraum in the former German lands, there is still some German history there.
Italians or Polacks would not be germanized, that would defeat a big part of the idea of acquiring Lebensraum, namely to sustain population growth, think more in terms of America :D
And Germans can move (although it is not desirable, but sometimes tough times demand tough actions), land mass can not (or not as fast ;)), when acquiring land, military considerations should be put first, since whose land is whose is defined by the ability to defend it.


If Germany expands over non-German lands that's expansionist policy and not taking back what's hers.
Eh, yes, so?

Thusnelda
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 12:28 PM
Sorry, but it can. Just have a look at the Balkan..
The Balkan is not South Tyrol. The majority of South Tyrol is Tirolerisch and German in culture and language. Rome tried to italianisize South Tyrol by forced immigration of Italians to South Tyrol, but that only changed the face of some cities like Bozen and Meran to some extend. The rest of South Tyrol is overwhelmingly Tirolerisch, and they are very proud of their national hero Andreas Hofer, for example. :)

Gefjon
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 12:29 PM
Italians or Polacks would not be germanized, that would defeat a big part of the idea of acquiring Lebensraum, namely to sustain population growth, think more in terms of America :D
And Germans can move (although it is not desirable, but sometimes tough times demand tough actions), land mass can not (or not as fast ;)), when acquiring land, military considerations should be put first, since whose land is whose is defined by the ability to defend it.

Eh, yes, so?
So, like I said, it's tougher to take over non-German land when it's foreign to you. By the way, I'm sure ya wouldn't like it if Russia had an expansionist policy involving Germany. Would Russians be justified to take German land for their own lebensraum? Don't think so.

stormlord
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 12:35 PM
I understand Germany wanting back real German lands like Danzig, but it's fairly unpleasant to read people saying "well, they're just slavs" or "stupid Polacks" so we can take land that's been theirs for millennia, because we're somehow better than them. I'm fairly sure that if some chav wins a few million pounds in the national lottery that I deserve the money more than him, and could make better use of it, so according to some of you can I just take it from him?

The Lawspeaker
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 01:21 PM
:)I guess that I voted the wrong way but wth.
In my believe Germany should regain all the territories that she has lost in 1945 as well as South Tyrol but excluding Luxembourg, the German cantons in Switzerland and the small nation of Lichtenstein. The territories that have always been German (Austrian)..


-Austria or Ostmark, as its German by history, culture and language.

- Southern Tyrol and Kanaltal

- Elsass-Lothringen, including Belfort

- German-speaking areas of Belgium, including the Herverland

-Nord Schleswig

- Sudetenland, including Böhmen-Mähren

- Memelland

-Ostpreussen, Westpreussen, Schlesien, Ost Oberschlesien, Warteland, Danzig, Pommern, Ostbrandenburg, city of Kalisch.

- Unter Kärnten and Unter Steiermark

- Ost Burgenland

(Thank you, Wittekind).

I think that Germany should also loose some territory: parts of North-Rhine Westphalia have always been Dutch or belong culturally or lingualistically speaking with the Netherlands (Low-Saxon speaking parts) and the same goes for East Frisia. In some parts of North-Rhine Westphalia and East Frisia Dutch has been the administrative and cultural language until the Germanification of the 19th century.

I do think that the German-speaking minorities in Hungary should get the chance of joining Germany as well.. but for the German minorities in Romania there should be some arrangements made for their repatration.. but they should be moved as a whole people. So that their culture can remain intact.
As for Germanification of the Russians, Poles, Lithuanians, Italians, Czechs, Slovaks, Slovenians, French and Belgian Walloons that have occupied these lands: don't even try. Some arrangements should be made for their repatration as well. Which will be a very costly part of the "operation". The Danes of Sleswick-Holsatia can relatively easily be Germanised (if they would want it), be considered a minority or repatriated as well.
I don't think that Bratislava (Preßburg) should become German again: it would destroy Slovakia's chance of becoming a state of it's own and nationalism does not mean to destroy other countries but only to protect ones heritage- also the heritage of the other.


But what about the Sorbs in Saxony ?

Gefjon
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 01:33 PM
I do think that the German-speaking minorities in Hungary should get the chance of joining Germany as well.. but for the German minorities in Romania there should be some arrangements made for their repatration.. but they should be moved as a whole people. So that there culture can remain intact.
But Germany gains nothing by repatriation, it's already recording high population density in many areas. Lebensraum is the solution for Germany, more land for folks to move in, more land for folks to build houses and gardens in, more resources to feed their families with. The German expellees from Poland want to legally gain their lands back. They had houses, gardens, everything there til they were forced to leave them behind. Sad, really sad.

The Lawspeaker
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 01:41 PM
But Germany gains nothing by repatriation, it's already recording high population density in many areas. Lebensraum is the solution for Germany, more land for folks to move in, more land for folks to build houses and gardens in, more resources to feed their families with. The German expellees from Poland want to legally gain their lands back. They had houses, gardens, everything there til they were forced to leave them behind. Sad, really sad.
Then repatriation should only take place after Germany has received it's lands again. Perhaps there is some space left in East Prussia or so after the Polish and Russian squatters have been asked to leave.

The Germans of Transylvania should of course not be brought to the West of Germany where there is no space for them to breathe. After clearing Soviet rubble there should be some space for them in East Prussia so that they can tear down their old Transylvanian-German homes or copy them and rebuild their small towns and villages in East Prussia. Repatration would be better then to leave them surrounded by Romanians.

Gefjon
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 01:47 PM
Then repatriation should only take place after Germany has received it's lands again. Perhaps there is some space left in East Prussia or so after the Polish and Russian squatters have been asked to leave.

The Germans of Transylvania should of course not be brought to the West of Germany where there is no space for them to breathe. After clearing Soviet rubble there should be some space for them in East Prussia so that they can tear down their old Transylvanian-German homes or copy them and rebuild their small towns and villages in East Prussia. Repatration would be better then to leave them surrounded by Romanians.
There will be plenty of space left after the Polaks and Russkies leave, considering most Germans from there have been expelled. So then Germany would have to re-germanize these areas and what better way than to bring ethnic Germans from Europe. The Transylvanian Germans won't suffice so maybe the Wolgadeutsche could be moved there too along with the Ungarndeutsche, Carpathian Germans and many more. Germans are scattered all around the world anyways, can't say we have a shortage in them. :D We only have shortage in lebensraum. ;)

I understand Germany wanting back real German lands like Danzig, but it's fairly unpleasant to read people saying "well, they're just slavs" or "stupid Polacks" so we can take land that's been theirs for millennia, because we're somehow better than them. I'm fairly sure that if some chav wins a few million pounds in the national lottery that I deserve the money more than him, and could make better use of it, so according to some of you can I just take it from him?
I'm not anti-Slavic, hell, I'm married to one, but I sure am anti-Polak. They stole German land so why should we have any love for em. Besides they're invading England in numbers and stealing your jobs. The world is full of proud Polaks. Stealing others' territories. Not to mention cars. ;)

The Lawspeaker
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 02:22 PM
There will be plenty of space left after the Polaks and Russkies leave, considering most Germans from there have been expelled. So then Germany would have to re-germanize these areas and what better way than to bring ethnic Germans from Europe. The Transylvanian Germans won't suffice so maybe the Wolgadeutsche could be moved there too along with the Ungarndeutsche, Carpathian Germans and many more. Germans are scattered all around the world anyways, can't say we have a shortage in them. :D We only have shortage in lebensraum. ;)


The thing is that Germans should indeed be "evacuated" from hellholes like Russia, Ukraine (Crimean Germans and Crimean Swedes) or Romania. And I think is that the only way to prevent them from being russified or romanified is to bring them to a Germanic country (or one with a strong Germanic culture).. and if Germany (or Sweden in case of the Crimean Swedes) can't house them.. perhaps the United States can. The same goes- to a lesser extend- for the Hungarian Germans. Perhaps somewhere in the US there is a environment similar to their own where they can establish new communities, rebuild their villages, churches and towns and can life their live free from moral, lingual and racial (I hate the word) pollution. (Just hoping that the US will respect their culture and language)


The problem with bringing all of them to East Prussia would be that they will influence each other too much.. thus damaging their unique German cultures and dialects. Perhaps in the US it will be easier for them to preserve it.
It will be up to the Germans of the former territories in the East and their descendants to repopulate the East.


I'm not anti-Slavic, hell, I'm married to one, but I sure am anti-Polak. They stole German land so why should we have any love for em. Besides they're invading England in numbers and stealing your jobs. The world is full of proud Polaks. Stealing others' territories. Not to mention cars. ;)

I too think that the Poles deserve to be put back in their place for once and no better way to do it then to let them loose the territories that they have conquered.. it will be up to the EU to make sure that Poland regains it's lost provinces in the East though (those that are now located in Belarus.)

Gefjon
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 02:47 PM
The thing is that Germans should indeed be "evacuated" from hellholes like Russia, Ukraine (Crimean Germans and Crimean Swedes) or Romania. And I think is that the only way to prevent them from being russified or romanified is to bring them to a Germanic country (or one with a strong Germanic culture).. and if Germany (or Sweden in case of the Crimean Swedes) can't house them.. perhaps the United States can. The same goes- to a lesser extend- for the Hungarian Germans. Perhaps somewhere in the US there is a environment similar to their own where they can establish new communities, rebuild their villages, churches and towns and can live their live free from moral, lingual and racial (I hate the word) polution. (Just hoping that the US will respect their culture and language)


The problem with bringing all of them to East Prussia would be that they will influence each other too much.. thus damaging their unique German cultures and dialects. Perhaps in the US it will be easier for them to preserve it.
It will be up to the Germans of the former territories in the East and their descendants to repopulate the East.



I too think that the Poles deserve to be put back in their place for once and no better way to do it then to let them loose the territories that they have conquered.. it will be up to the EU to make sure that Poland regains it's lost provinces in the East though (those that are now located in Belarus.)
Don't think the US is a good idea if they wanna stay German, as the US is an integrative country. The only Germans who keep their culture are the ones who live isolated (e.g. the Amish ;)). The Germans settled in Transylvania and Hungary around the 12th century and most Transylvanian/Hungarian Germans speak German, they even have their own dialect and German schools. The Germans in the US settled since the 17th century and they have become americanized, vrey few speak German, and certainly not those who have been there for generations. The difference is that in Transylvania and Hungary they didn't have to integrate. Then the Austrian-Hungarian Empire granted them special rights. They were a privileged class so their culture was considered superior. :D

Actually, a lot of Transylvanian Germans have "returned" to Germany already. But that still leaves us with many Germans scattered in other countries.

East Prussia would be a problem linguistically speaking though, you're right. If this dialect map (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=2923)'s correct, then most Hungarian Germans speak a high German dialect and some a central German one and most Transylvanian Germans speak a central German dialect and some a high German one. No low German to be seen. :confused: But hey, they also speak standard German. ;)

As for Poland, I couldn't care less as long as it gives Germany its land back. :D

-jmw-
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 03:58 PM
This one personally bothers me, have you ever been there? Firstly there is no geographic nor cultural boundary between Alsace-Lorraine and the Rhineland, just one of government. There are obviously some French there, but then again there are some Turks in Berlin too. Is that a lost cause too? ;) And anyway, the few French are not too foriegn to be assimilated, since they are few in number anyway (especially in the Eastern parts, which are practically entirely German).
No, haven't been there yet.
But there's no hurry, I have still lot's of time to do it. :)

In medias res:

According to the Office pour la Langue et Culture d’Alsace, roughly 60% of the population speaks Alsatian;
I do not have any up-to-date numbers for Lorraine;
the last survey was in 1962, the result was that roundabout 300.000 people spoke lothringian Frankish (according to de.wiki), which would mean 1/3 of the current population of the Départment Moselle .

So, it could be one half of the poluation which could be called "german" in some way, but with an imbalance between young and old:
In 20 years, the number sureley will have declined to one third of the population.


As for the Eastern Lands, I don't really care who inhabits the majority of it after a Soviet purge. They are doing a piss poor job of running it (they are Slavs after all, who'd have thought? :rolleyes: ) and hardly are worthy of their own land. The fact they own it now is irrelevant, I'd perfer to eliminate things done by the Soviets, not cater to their purges and anti-Germanism.Concerning the worthiness:
According to NS-Weltanschauung, you are worthy of the land as long as you have the land.
So, the Poles own the Ostgebiete rightfully 'cause no one who would like to take it from them can and does take it from them.
Very easy, I must say. :)


As for what should happen to the Slavs, who cares? They don't seem to have a problem with immigrating, I am sure they will figure something out.I'm quit sure Russia would care!
And NATO.
And the UN.
And France and GB and the EU...


Thereis no question that all these areas historically are German.
Ha!
I do question it! :)

Neither the Romansch areas nor Nordschleswig nor Belfort nor Böhmen nor Mähren nor Wartheland nor Unterkärnten nor Untersteiermark (apart from the city of Gottschee) had a german majority ever.

They were "german" only insofar they were ruled from Berlin or Vienna.

And I'm not sure with Bratislava either.


The Elsass is today more French-speaking then German, however, that does not change a fact. Thye Elsatians are still German by blood and they just need Germanization.You can germanize nearly everyone from Hammerfest to Paris to St Petersburg!
The french Alsatians are of the same racial sub-types as the people from Baden or from Burgundy - and it doesn't make them german in any way.

Apart from that, trying to germanize anyone on the french side of the Rhine would lead in the end to french nuclear weapons on our side of the river - not good... :(


Lets not forget: (1) the borders of 1914 were international recognized borders. (2) The treaty of Versailles does not jistified anything. (3) It was an agreement of traitors and occupiders. (4) The Anschluss of Austria and Sudetenland were recognized internationall.(1) As are the ones of 2008!

(2) A treaty is still a treaty, right?

(3) It was a treaty agreed to by the legitimate german government and affirmed by a majority of the populace through voting for the parties upholding it.
And even if this would not have been the case: Versailles is irrelevant for Germany nowadays, as there are modern treaties concerning the borders, both of the west and of the east.

(4) As are the status of Austria and Sudetenland today as an independent state and a part of the Czech Republic, respectivly.


Zitat von Udo Voigt:

Über die deutsche Frage muss noch geredet werden. Breslau, Danzig, Königsberg und Stettin sind deutsche Städte wie Berlin. Wir müssen zusammenstehen und wenn wir es schaffen, das nationale Lager zu einigen, werden wir es schaffen, das deutsche Volk zu einigen, und dann werden wir die Verräter hinwegwerfen.The german government waived the (legal!) claim Germany had to the Ostgebiete at the beginning of the 1990s.


Eh, yes, so?
It's the same as with lying or stealing:
It does only work if most of the people refrain from doing it.
It's parasitic behaviour. :(


So, like I said, it's tougher to take over non-German land when it's foreign to you. By the way, I'm sure ya wouldn't like it if Russia had an expansionist policy involving Germany. Would Russians be justified to take German land for their own lebensraum? Don't think so.
According to Mr Hitler, they would be justified, yes. :)
Land belongs rightfully to those who can take and, as Jäger already mentioned, defend it.

(Of course non-NS may have a different opinion on that...)


The Danes of Sleswick-Holsatia can relatively easily be Germanised (if they would want it), be considered a minority or repatriated as well.
They don't want to become Germans;
and repatriatation would be difficult, because they lived there for the last thousand years.
If one would like to take measures of repatriation in Southern Schleswig, it would be more reasonable to throw out all the Germans than to go for Danes and Frisians.

Gefjon
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 04:01 PM
According to Mr Hitler, they would be justified, yes. :)
Land belongs rightfully to those who can take and, as Jäger already mentioned, defend it.

(Of course non-NS may have a different opinion on that...)
Check out my political orientation in my profile. ;) Being NS doesn't mean you have to agree with Hitler about everything. I don't disagree with you, but I think it's more justified to get German land.

-jmw-
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 04:21 PM
it will be up to the EU to make sure that Poland regains it's lost provinces in the East though (those that are now located in Belarus.)
You mean those mostly white russian and lithuanian parts of Belarus Poland conquered in the 1920?
Why should they get it back?
These areas are not polish and they were not then, as far as I know, apart from the bigger cities (Grodno e.g.) perhaps.


Check out my political orientation in my profile. ;) Being NS doesn't mean you have to agree with Hitler about everything. I don't disagree with you, but I think it's more justified to get German land.
Of course it doesn't mean you have to agree on everything.
But I think there are parts of a Weltanschauung you have to agree to if you rightfully want to call yourself after it.

The NS ideas about the Kampf ums Dasein and the importance of Arterhaltung and Artentfaltung in my opinion preclude your view concernign the justification of owning land.

(But, well, I'm not an NS and so I might be wrong on this...)

Jäger
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 05:47 PM
The Balkan is not South Tyrol.
All I am saying is that time can change this, and even if it took 200 years. It's not different to Berlin, which becomes more and more Turkish. I bet a Serb said the same about the Kosovo some years ago ;)


So, like I said, it's tougher to take over non-German land when it's foreign to you.
Obstacles are there to be overcome. We shall do what's best for us, not just walking the path of least resistance, because it is convenient at first.
And I am not saying that we shouldn't consider taking land that was once German, but this is should not be the point behind the consideration, but simply what suits best for us, if it is partly once German land, all once German land, more than once German land or none once German land doesn't matter.
E.g. Austria is kind of obvious :D


By the way, I'm sure ya wouldn't like it if Russia had an expansionist policy involving Germany. Would Russians be justified to take German land for their own lebensraum? Don't think so.
I wouldn't like it, but their justification would be their might, I could whine about it all I wanted, but if they decided to do so, and are actually capable of doing so, they can do so.
It's the simply justification of the strong.

Were the Teutonic Knights justified in taking over Baltic lands?
Were the English justified in taking over American lands?

Of course, we shall not walk around and acquire as much land as we can get, simply for the sake of it, and an illusion of power, this is stupid, A. Hitler said it best, we take what we need to sustain ourselves, if we can do so without additional land, fine. If not then not :)
Did you actually read the excerpts of Mein Kampf I posted? Even if you don't agree with him, he made good points, you should address, when trying to refute it :)


It's the same as with lying or stealing:
It does only work if most of the people refrain from doing it.
It's parasitic behaviour. :(
By your definition all life forms on earth are parasitic then. The fight about resources is as old as earth. And it does work, no matter how many do so, it just doesn't work for everyone, just a few, or even just one, and then this life circle begins anew,

Gefjon
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 06:18 PM
All I am saying is that time can change this, and even if it took 200 years. It's not different to Berlin, which becomes more and more Turkish. I bet a Serb said the same about the Kosovo some years ago ;)


Obstacles are there to be overcome. We shall do what's best for us, not just walking the path of least resistance, because it is convenient at first.
And I am not saying that we shouldn't consider taking land that was once German, but this is should not be the point behind the consideration, but simply what suits best for us, if it is partly once German land, all once German land, more than once German land or none once German land doesn't matter.
E.g. Austria is kind of obvious :D


I wouldn't like it, but their justification would be their might, I could whine about it all I wanted, but if they decided to do so, and are actually capable of doing so, they can do so.
It's the simply justification of the strong.

Were the Teutonic Knights justified in taking over Baltic lands?
Were the English justified in taking over American lands?

Of course, we shall not walk around and acquire as much land as we can get, simply for the sake of it, and an illusion of power, this is stupid, A. Hitler said it best, we take what we need to sustain ourselves, if we can do so without additional land, fine. If not then not :)
Did you actually read the excerpts of Mein Kampf I posted? Even if you don't agree with him, he made good points, you should address, when trying to refute it :)
I'm not tryin to refute it, I just like to discuss and ask questions. :D
I wouldn't say the English were justified to take American land. It wasn't theirs. But they made it theirs and they built a country there, so now it's theirs. They earned their right. Because it ain't justified doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. The Indians were just some tribes though, not like they possessed nukes to strike back or something. ;) If Germans are to die in war, I'd say it's more worth to die over fighting for their own land.

Jäger
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 06:35 PM
Because it ain't justified doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.
Tricky, some sort of justification is always present, since ethics are strong in variation, however, the ethic behind NS justifies it :)


The Indians were just some tribes though, not like they possessed nukes to strike back or something. ;) If Germans are to die in war, I'd say it's more worth to die over fighting for their own land.
Yes, the motivation from rootedness is an important factor, but as I said, we would not attack other countries for fun, but for our lives, the soil Germans drench with their blood while defending it, is German, no matter where or when it was acquired, Blood & Soil :)

-jmw-
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 10:33 PM
By your definition all life forms on earth are parasitic then. The fight about resources is as old as earth. And it does work, no matter how many do so, it just doesn't work for everyone, just a few, or even just one, and then this life circle begins anew,
I'm not talking about "all life forms", I'm talking about social behaviour of humans. :)
Animals fight that's true. (They also cooperate.)
Humans fight, that's true also. (And they also cooperate.)
But that doesn't mean we can compare human and animal behaviour easily.

Yes, it does "work" in a sense - but is does only insofar as everything in nature "works" somehow.
Can this be compared to social live?
I don't think so.
If the Cold War would have become "hot" and humanity would be nearly extinct by 2008, this would also "work" for nature, but not for us.

The same goes with other things.

Even NS acknowledged this: As far as I (and you) know, a lot of "natural" kinds of things were suppressed:
Stealing, raping, killing others, banding together and looting the next village...

From a purely naturalist point, there's no need to forbid this!

But, plain and simple, we are not "pure nature" anymore and by this we need rules beyond the laws of nature.

(Meine Güte, semiphilosophische Dispute in einer Fremdsprache, ich armer Kerl...)


Because it ain't justified doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.
I disagree on this.
I mean, isn't that the whole point of saying sth is not justified that you should not do it?
Isn't it pretty much the same?
I would say so.
To say otherwise would mean that one should do what one should not do - quite absurd!

Jäger
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 10:41 PM
From a purely naturalist point, there's no need to forbid this!

But, plain and simple, we are not "pure nature" anymore and by this we need rules beyond the laws of nature.
This is nothing we even can regulate, that is the point.
It's like saying: "We regulate the natural urge to murder, yet do still allow the apple to fall downwards, why not force it to fall upwards?"
We can't change it, it is a natural law, not a natural habit.


(Meine Güte, semiphilosophische Dispute in einer Fremdsprache, ich armer Kerl...)
Da muß man durch ;)

Soldier of Wodann
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 11:05 PM
No, haven't been there yet.
But there's no hurry, I have still lot's of time to do it. :)

In medias res:

According to the Office pour la Langue et Culture d’Alsace, roughly 60% of the population speaks Alsatian;
I do not have any up-to-date numbers for Lorraine;
the last survey was in 1962, the result was that roundabout 300.000 people spoke lothringian Frankish (according to de.wiki), which would mean 1/3 of the current population of the Départment Moselle .

So, it could be one half of the poluation which could be called "german" in some way, but with an imbalance between young and old:
In 20 years, the number sureley will have declined to one third of the population.

The spoken language doesn't really matter all too much, most of them are still ethnically and culturally German. They could always just relearn German..


Concerning the worthiness:
According to NS-Weltanschauung, you are worthy of the land as long as you have the land.
So, the Poles own the Ostgebiete rightfully 'cause no one who would like to take it from them can and does take it from them.
Very easy, I must say. :)

No, you are worthy so long as you take it. The Russians took it and gave it to Poland. As if Poles could ever take German land on their own. :rolleyes:


I'm quit sure Russia would care!
And NATO.
And the UN.
And France and GB and the EU...


Oh no! :( Well, then they can go ahead and have the Poles. ;)

-jmw-
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 11:38 PM
Da muß man durch ;)
Ist wohl so, ja. :)


The spoken language doesn't really matter all too much, most of them are still ethnically and culturally German. They could always just relearn German..
I'm not sure if they are cultrally german.
Do you have any statistics regarding this?

And, ethnically, well...
There are so many racial subtypes and regional cultures in Germany - the language is what unifies us.
Someone who cannot speak german cannot reasonably be considered part of the german Volk, plain and simple.


No, you are worthy so long as you take it. The Russians took it and gave it to Poland.
The Russians can give their land to whomever they want.
Now Poland has it.
So, where's the problem?
If you want it, take it, if not, it's their's.


As if Poles could ever take German land on their own. :rolleyes:
Why should they not be able to?

(Anyways, I'll check my history books on that tomorrow.)


Oh no! :( Well, then they can go ahead and have the Poles. ;)
Yeah, or perhaps there will just be a little embargo and some bombs...
I'm no willing to repeat '45!

Soldier of Wodann
Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 11:47 PM
I'm not sure if they are cultrally german.
Do you have any statistics regarding this?

No, I suggest you go there and see for yourself. ;)


And, ethnically, well...
There are so many racial subtypes and regional cultures in Germany - the language is what unifies us.
Someone who cannot speak german cannot reasonably be considered part of the german Volk, plain and simple.

The language is not the only thing at all. Some German dialects are not mutually comprehensible to one another. It is the blood and culture.



The Russians can give their land to whomever they want.
Now Poland has it.
So, where's the problem?
If you want it, take it, if not, it's their's.

The problem is that people aren't allowed to take things from weaker people anymore without moral justification.



Why should they not be able to?

(Anyways, I'll check my history books on that tomorrow.)

Because they are pathetic.



Yeah, or perhaps there will just be a little embargo and some bombs...
I'm no willing to repeat '45!

And this is where the moral justification comes in.

-jmw-
Sunday, January 6th, 2008, 12:06 AM
No, I suggest you go there and see for yourself. ;)
If you pay for it... :D


The language is not the only thing at all. Some German dialects are not mutually comprehensible to one another. It is the blood and culture.
There is no "german blood".
There are no biological or physical differences between a Slovenian and a Styrian;
between a Palatine and a french Lothringian;
between a German from south of and a Dane from north of the border;
or between a Vogtländer and a Czech.


The problem is that people aren't allowed to take things from weaker people anymore without moral justification.
That's not a problem, that's civilization.

By the way, isn't it a bit of a paradox to call it a "problem" that sth. is not "allowed" when you reject moral justifications anyway?

From whom do you want a permission?
From whom do you need it?
Who could give it to you?

If the concept of moral justification isn't a valid one, than there is no one to decide what's "allowed" beside yourself.
You can and may do what you want, as long as you can, as long you have the power of doing it.
If you are not able to - better luck next time.

(Dammit, I'm sounding like a Stirnerite...)


Because they are pathetic.
That's not an explanation. :)


And this is where the moral justification comes in.
Which one would you like to use?

Soldier of Wodann
Sunday, January 6th, 2008, 12:36 AM
There is no "german blood".
There are no biological or physical differences between a Slovenian and a Styrian;
between a Palatine and a french Lothringian;
between a German from south of and a Dane from north of the border;
or between a Vogtländer and a Czech.

Yeah there is, what the hell are you talking about? If you can't tell the difference between a southern German and a northern Dane there is something wrong with you.


That's not a problem, that's civilization.

We had civilization before that. That is not what civilization is.


By the way, isn't it a bit of a paradox to call it a "problem" that sth. is not "allowed" when you reject moral justifications anyway?

No.


From whom do you want a permission?
From whom do you need it?
Who could give it to you?

If the concept of moral justification isn't a valid one, than there is no one to decide what's "allowed" beside yourself.
You can and may do what you want, as long as you can, as long you have the power of doing it.
If you are not able to - better luck next time.

(Dammit, I'm sounding like a Stirnerite...)


By allowed, I mean allowed to do so without interference. Take WW2, we were not, for example, allowed to attack Poland (without interference). I didn't mean in moral terms. I don't really care about moral justification for doing it, though it can be argued quite easily.


That's not an explanation. :)

What would you prefer? Their culture and society is not developed enough to compete with Germans, therefore they have not and will not have any offensive victories over the German nation.


Which one would you like to use?

Doesn't matter.

-jmw-
Sunday, January 6th, 2008, 10:26 AM
Yeah there is, what the hell are you talking about? If you can't tell the difference between a southern German and a northern Dane there is something wrong with you.
You're criticizing a comparison I did not make. :)

Everyone can tell the difference between a northern Dane and a southern German.
What I wrote is, perhaps you should reread it, that you can't tell the difference between a northern German and a southern Dane;
or between a southernmost German and a Slovenian.
Why?
Because they belong to the same racial subtypes.
But, well, where's the "german blood", then?


We had civilization before that. That is not what civilization is.
Okay, and what is civilization? (Apart from my favorite PC-game...:D)


No.
Hmm...
Perhaps we should ask a professional philosopher about that.

(Do we have one here at the forum?)


By allowed, I mean allowed to do so without interference. Take WW2, we were not, for example, allowed to attack Poland (without interference). I didn't mean in moral terms. I don't really care about moral justification for doing it, though it can be argued quite easily.
Why should there not be an interference?
Everyone may interfere where they want, why they want, how they want, when they want, schmen they want, flen they want, and schplen they want! (Citing Libertoid Maniac here.)
- As long as he has the power to do so.

I mean, this is what "might makes right" is all about, no?

If we would need no moral justification to attack Poland, then Russia or Great Britain or the United States need no one, either.
The could ignore us, attack us, damn!, they coul even genocide us and you only coud say, "well, I don't like being genocided", which would be qualitatively on the same level as saying "well, I don't like strawberry icecream"...


What would you prefer? Their culture and society is not developed enough to compete with Germans, therefore they have not and will not have any offensive victories over the German nation.
Time will tell.


Doesn't matter.
I see...

Jäger
Sunday, January 6th, 2008, 10:31 AM
Yeah there is, what the hell are you talking about? If you can't tell the difference between a southern German and a northern Dane there is something wrong with you.
He is right, when you have a Nordid from Munich and a Nordid from Copenhagen, how would you know who is from where? By language? :p
German blood can be defined broadly, but there is no German race, just German races, and individually there can be little to no physical difference between a South-German and a Dane, Italian or French, etc.

Communication is the base of our development, it is true that language can be learned and it certainly is not enough, but without being able to communicate with your kin, you are not part of it. Language is a very important factor of culture, and you are right when you say it is "Blood & Culture" which defines a German.
Those who can't speak German, have lost an important part of their culture, as long as they have their blood, they can become German (again), but the same goes for all racially compatible humans on earth, with the advantage for those with German descent, that their will is more evident.

Gefjon
Sunday, January 6th, 2008, 11:13 AM
Cmon Soldier of Wotan, just looks/phenotype can't accurately determine someone's ethnicity. What's the difference between the Nordid Germans and Nordid Russians? :confused: The answer is language. ;)

As for German dialects, they may not be comprehensible to one another but standard German is and besides his dialect, a German speaks standard German. ;) Some Germans don't even speak dialects or speak them just a lil, they communicate in standard German mostly.

By the way you speak of culture, what's culture without language? :confused: Folks who don't speak German anymore cease to be German, let's face it. Language is a huge part of a people's identity. Seriously, how can you know of Goethe if you can't read his work in German? You'll never grasp the true essence of German culture by reading it in English or French.

Siebenbürgerin
Friday, March 21st, 2008, 11:58 PM
In my Opinion Germany deserves to have these Territories. Even if they are populated with Slavs and other People the Architecture still shows these places were founded by Germans through hard Work. But is it realistic? These Lands won't give Germany back what it lost. There is a Situation like this in my Region. The Hungarian Minorities (some) would like to Transylvania returned to Hungary since it was part of Hungary and the Austro-Hungarian Empire for long Time. But it will never happen. Are there any German Movements from the Ethnics in these Regions in Russia, Poland, Slovenia and others, who want to rejoin the Motherland? I heard that a lot of the Germans from Eastern Europe were ethnically cleansed or chased away. Many are now in Germany and join the Federation of Expelees.

Berrocscir
Saturday, March 22nd, 2008, 02:24 PM
I generally follow the Irrendentist line when it comes to questions like this. What good is a nation without its land?

Elysium
Monday, June 30th, 2008, 11:42 AM
Are the areas that were considered German before World War II still relatively "German" today? More importantly, would they be German enough to incorporate into Germany?

Hrodnand
Monday, June 30th, 2008, 11:55 AM
Are the areas that were considered German before World War II still relatively "German" today? More importantly, would they be German enough to incorporate into Germany?

Siebenbürgens most part was considered german before W.W II.. I'm reffering to the lands where saxons lived mostly, nowadays though there are really few of us here. I'm sure many of them left here, including me, "would be enough german" to incorporate to the Reich.

Thusnelda
Monday, June 30th, 2008, 12:20 PM
Are the areas that were considered German before World War II still relatively "German" today? More importantly, would they be German enough to incorporate into Germany?
The German languagaged parts of Belgium remained very German. It´s the "Eupen-Malmedy-St.Vith"-Region.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German-speaking_Community_of_Belgium

"It has an area of 854 km², and a population of over 73,000, of which almost 100% are German speaking (traditionally Ripuarian-speaking). Its capital is Eupen;"...

The German-speaking Community has its own government, which is appointed for five years by its parliament. The Government is headed by a Minister-President, who acts as the "prime minister" of the Community, and is assisted by the Ministry of the German-speaking Community. The government currently formed by four Ministers"

On this map you can see the German languaged parts of Belgium in red:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/Duitstalige_GemeenschapLocatie.png

Carl
Monday, June 30th, 2008, 12:25 PM
....... nowadays though there are really few of us here......

this is such a Germanic lament - as well as German. There were once lots of Germans in western and southern Africa. There were even more Germanics.... Then there was Politics... and now there are fewer and fewer, almost by the day it seems!

So something similar in the lands "south of Austria".
And as for the east - are there Germans in the Czech lands? I do know there is ferment that there shouldn't be.... whatever the EU says about freedom to reside. And east of the current Eastern border Germany - in the land of Poland ? surely the more that come 'home', the fewer there are .



I'm sure many of them left here, including me, "would be enough German" to incorporate to the Reich.

---were there another Reich, of course. I think you would have to get rid of the EU first - which could take some doing.

But I imagine the situation in Belgium is more of a possibility; some here have been waiting for Belgium to fragment for some time? Why should those Germans go with the Flemish - let alone the French!

Volksdeutscher
Monday, June 30th, 2008, 12:27 PM
The German identity is also still very strong in South Tyrol.

In 1919, South Tyrol, whose population was primarily German-speaking, became a part of Italy.
Today, South Tyrol's inhabitants number is approximately 460,000. According to the census in 2001, 69.15% of the population consider themselves German speakers, 26.47% Italian speakers and 4.37% Ladin [Rhaeto-Romanic] speakers. The remainder did not declare to belong to any of these linguistic groups. The German-speaking population preponderates in all the cities and small towns of South Tyrol with the exception of the Ladin valleys where the majority is Ladin-speaking and the capital Bozen/Bolzano, as well as Leifers/Laives, Branzoll/Bronzolo, Salurn/Salorno and Pfatten/Vadena, where the majority is Italian- speaking.

http://www1.fa.knaw.nl/mercator/regionale_dossiers/regional_dossier_german_in_italy.htm

SwordOfTheVistula
Monday, June 30th, 2008, 02:00 PM
The German identity is also still very strong in South Tyrol.

In 1919, South Tyrol, whose population was primarily German-speaking, became a part of Italy.
Today, South Tyrol's inhabitants number is approximately 460,000. According to the census in 2001, 69.15% of the population consider themselves German speakers, 26.47% Italian speakers and 4.37% Ladin [Rhaeto-Romanic] speakers. The remainder did not declare to belong to any of these linguistic groups. The German-speaking population preponderates in all the cities and small towns of South Tyrol with the exception of the Ladin valleys where the majority is Ladin-speaking and the capital Bozen/Bolzano, as well as Leifers/Laives, Branzoll/Bronzolo, Salurn/Salorno and Pfatten/Vadena, where the majority is Italian- speaking.

http://www1.fa.knaw.nl/mercator/regionale_dossiers/regional_dossier_german_in_italy.htm

Yeah, if any of you guys ever get arrested there, you are entitled to court proceedings in German :D

Siebenbürgerin
Monday, June 30th, 2008, 02:53 PM
There is also some German identity in France it seems, but assimilation has happened too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_German#France

In France, Alsace and the Moselle departement were originally German-speaking, but because of territorial transfers resulting from various wars, and given the French stance on language and ethnicity within the Republic, assimilation has decimated the Alsatian dialect. The German-speaking population is estimated at 1,500,000, plus another 40,000 for ethnic Luxembourgers.

A billingual streetsign in Strasbourg.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fc/180px-Franska-Elsassiska.jpeg

Parzival
Friday, July 25th, 2008, 12:08 PM
Deutschösterreich muß wieder zurück zum großen deutschen Mutterlande, und zwar nicht aus Gründen irgendwelcher wirtschaftlichen Erwägungen heraus. Nein, nein: Auch wenn diese Vereinigung, wirtschaftlich gedacht, gleichgültig, ja selbst wenn sie schädlich wäre, sie müßte dennoch stattfinden. Gleiches Blut gehört in ein gemeinsames Reich.

Und das gilt nicht nur für Österreich, sondern auch für die anderen Deutschen Länder.

johanpeturdam
Friday, August 15th, 2008, 06:01 AM
As far as I know, the Soviet Union never formally annexed what is today the Kaliningrad oblast', so Germany could begin there by reannexing Ostpreussen, or the Northern part of it at least.

However, demographically, that region is as Slavic as they come: 82.37% are Russian, 5.31% Belarusian, 4.94% Ukrainian, while only 0.87% are German. (Germans are 6th after Lithuanians and Armenians). Then there are many more ethnicities in Kaliningrádskaja óblast'.

Aragorn
Friday, August 15th, 2008, 08:20 AM
As far as I know, the Soviet Union never formally annexed what is today the Kaliningrad oblast', so Germany could begin there by reannexing Ostpreussen, or the Northern part of it at least.

However, demographically, that region is as Slavic as they come: 82.37% are Russian, 5.31% Belarusian, 4.94% Ukrainian, while only 0.87% are German. (Germans are 6th after Lithuanians and Armenians). Then there are many more ethnicities in Kaliningrádskaja óblast'.

Concerning the current conflict with Georgia, is hardly a reality that Russia is gonna give up that strategic oblast.

Irby
Thursday, August 5th, 2010, 01:56 PM
Naturally it would be important that Germany has all its land back, but what is more important is that not necessary that Germany owns the land itself, but that the German people can regain some of their historical influence over the east, which is good for us and good for the Slavs.

For example, the German aristocratic groups that ruled over much of eastern Europe could, once again be used to better organize the local population, by encouraging German settlement, but by also using germanifcation of those elements of Slavic society which would be suitable. Whilst on the other hand suppression the Asiatic tendency of large proportions of the Slav society.

There are not enough Germans to populate the whole of eastern Europe, but a strong, greater Germany with all of here second Reich possessions back, and a greater aristocratic influence of the Slavic regions, who desperately need leadership, and historically have looked for German for this, would be the best future situation, not only for Germany, but for Western Europe in general.

Germay has always been the first and last, pillar of European civilization, and if she should fall, thus letting the east run free, then the West is doomed.

Long may the Teutonic knights defend Europa's honour!

Lagergeld
Thursday, August 5th, 2010, 04:03 PM
ALL lost German territories must be regained , no matter what . There should be no compromise with the traitors . And I'm not talking only about Eastern Germany , Austria , Sudetenland and South Tyrol ... We also shoud never forget OBERKRAIN and UNTERSTEIERMARK !

The foreigners that are currently occuping our soil must leave ...

My friends , NEVER forget the Volksdeutsche of eastern Europe, NEVER !

No matter what? Unfortunately that seemed to have been Hitler's attitude and it cost us millions of dead. I agree that Germany was screwed at Versailles, but a "no matter what" attitutde isn't the way to handle it.

Lagergeld
Friday, August 6th, 2010, 01:33 AM
No matter what ... Do you think that this matter can be solved with diplomacy ? I doubt it ...

I think that there is only one way to regain our land back and I'm prepared to give my life for the Fatherland if necessary !

Well I'm more of a pan-Aryanist and as such want to avoid white bloodshed as much as possible. Why fight to win back lands just to kill millions more of whites so that Turkish migrants can have more land to immigrate to? Does this taking back land by force include your ancestral Slovenian area as well?

Lagergeld
Saturday, August 7th, 2010, 02:59 AM
Our territories MUST be regained ! We can't just let the Poles have a part of Germany !

We must deal with the Turks too ...

My ancestral lands ? I'm an ethnic German and YES like I said Oberkrain and Lower-Styria should return to the Fatherland as well . The city of Marburg is not Slovenian . It is German !

An argument can certainly be made to return Austria to the Reich, but the idea of the former Yugoslavia and the other Balkan states isn't true. Germans were settled there during the Habsburg years to re-Christianize the area once the Turks were expelled and prevent the Muslims from re-invading.

Its far more than just a matter of the Poles having a part of Germany; Russia has part of Poland and so forth. Millions of people were shuffled and resettled. I have no problem in theory with the idea of all countries getting their former borders back, but I'm not about to see a single drop of European blood shed over it. Our existence as a race is under threat, and we do NOT need to be bickering about old land disputes. Our view should be in the future of our race, not in the past. Such behavior is anti-white and has already cost us millions of lives. Poles are not cockroaches, they are Aryanfolk.


My friends , NEVER forget the Volksdeutsche of eastern Europe, NEVER !

What does this mean, never forget the Volksdeutsche of eastern Europe?

þeudiskaz
Saturday, August 7th, 2010, 04:12 AM
Austria, and Prussia need to come back.

wittwer
Saturday, August 7th, 2010, 03:00 PM
"Lebensraum" again? What did the last failed attempt cost in resources, treasure, blood and bone? And the "Volk" are no better off for it. Tis far better to expend the energy to maximise the value of the current socio/politico/economic realities. Than head off into other "wild adventures" with the promise of little return.

"Tis far more difficult to win the Peace than it is to win or lose a War".

þeudiskaz
Saturday, August 7th, 2010, 03:18 PM
"Lebensraum" again? What did the last failed attempt cost in resources, treasure, blood and bone? And the "Volk" are no better off for it. Tis far better to expend the energy to maximise the value of the current socio/politico/economic realities. Than head off into other "wild adventures" with the promise of little return.

"Tis far more difficult to win the Peace than it is to win or lose a War".

No, the OP is just asking which Germanic lands you think should be returned to Germany. The OP does not necessitate war at all.

I think by way of apology for last 60 years of snubbing Germanic people, the world should give the territory back. That's not war. There are solutions other than warfare (though few and far between). Obviously, this situation would not happen realistically without warfare, but the OP was asking for your ideal outcome.

wittwer
Sunday, August 8th, 2010, 01:39 AM
The Socio-Political reality is that the "old lost lands" are gone forever. Live with it. The new reality lies in the Economic Co-option of them via the European Union. With that, what's the difference, if they're called "Das Gross Deutschland", France, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Poland, Czech Republic, Austria or Switzerland?

The past is past and should be relegated to the scrap heap of History. We must learn to live in the present with an eye to the future in order to remain viable and profitable.

Lagergeld
Sunday, August 8th, 2010, 05:08 PM
It is NOT expansionism if we want to regain lands that originally belonged to us ...

If you wish to back to who "originally" lived where, you'd have to give most of the whole of the European continent to the Celts.

Lagergeld
Sunday, August 8th, 2010, 05:23 PM
Balkan states ? I'm talking about UNTERSTEIERMARK and OBERKRAIN !!! The territory was inhabited by Germanics long before the Turks came ...And there was a German majority in cities like Marburg a.d. Drau , Pettau and Cilli until end of WW1 ...

Politics and political powers have always usurped local demographics. Whether Germans live in Slovenia or Lower Styria isn't the end of the world. Borders with other white countries and sharing a common nationality in some areas with Slavs isn't remotely of concern to me. My concern is the racial aliens flooding Europe and whites outnumbered in places like South Africa, Zimbabwe, Brazil, and elsewhere. Id like to see those whites evacuated to the mother continent. It's only a matter of time before racial violence or admixture removes them from existence.


I am not talking about killing the Poles , I'm only saying that we must regain GERMAN soil !!!

You said no matter what as an open-ended statement. It was only logical on my end to interpret that by whatever means needs be to get it done, including violence. I'm not fighting with whites over land, especially when Europe is being drowned in mud. We should be getting together to resist another alien invasion, not fighting among each other over land that none of us will inhabit if we don't stop this 2-legged tsunami.


Otherwise , shame on you if you prefer other nations instead of our own .

Germany must be reunited ! It's treason if you support the jewish-communist idea of a divided German folk ...

I never said I preferred anything over a united German folk. Actually, I very much love the idea of a folkish state, however, I'm simply not willing to fight (especially to the point of violence) with other Aryanfolk to get it. The German people would be much better off if they purged the racial aliens from Germany. We are facing a demographic crisis and invasions of our lands of a scale never before seen. We do not have the time or space to bicker with other whites over war beefs and political borders.


It means that you should rather worry about your Germanic brothers and sisters still living in eastern European lands that once belonged to us , then some Poles or other foreigners ... It also means that there is still ethnic pride present among us Volksdeutschers .

I may well still have relatives living in Slavonia/Vojvodina. I'll never know how many ended up butchered by the Partisans and thrown in mass graves, or how many languished in the concentration camps of Tito or were shipped off to coal mines in Siberia. Not many of my extended relatives made it out, I'll tell you that. Am I going to bicker over land and get into fights with other Europeans over it? Not a chance in hell. Our survival as a race is at stake.

Bernhard
Sunday, August 8th, 2010, 06:18 PM
Our survival as a race is at stake.

And our survival as a people would (still) be at stake if your ideas are put into practice. You are casting out the devil with Beelzebub.

Lagergeld
Tuesday, August 10th, 2010, 03:16 AM
And our survival as a people would (still) be at stake if your ideas are put into practice. You are casting out the devil with Beelzebub.

Explain please?


Germany must be united , no matter what ! I do not care for the enemies of Germany . Parts of Germany are occupied and must return to the Fatherland ! We will make no step backward ! Not even an inch of our soil should be given to Poles , Italians or someone else .

Our enemies being defined not only as Africans but as Italians and Poles? This is ridiculous.

Lagergeld
Tuesday, August 10th, 2010, 06:57 PM
Whoever does harm to our German Fatherland is our enemy ...

Including stupid German politicians?

Thusnelda
Tuesday, August 10th, 2010, 08:29 PM
Including stupid German politicians?
I suppose this can only be a rhetorical question? I´m sure Gebirgsjäger will give the same answer as me: Yes, of course. They are traitors and guilty of high treason on the own folk. :(

Bernhard
Friday, August 13th, 2010, 03:12 PM
Explain please?


Well, you are placing race above folk and are willing to sacrifice certain ideas that are for the good of the folk for the sake of not having conflicts with other whites. Maybe this will make sure that our race survives, but our folk will be in danger because of these pan-aryan ideas. So your solution for the problem is just another problem from a nationalist/germanic preservationist point of view.

ohrdruf
Friday, August 13th, 2010, 03:49 PM
The important thing is first to identify what remains German by right under international law at this present time. Walther Lüdde-Neurath, Dönitz' last adjutant (1943-23 May 1945), expressed it thus in words to this effect (I can produce the English and German versions if required) in his book "Regierung Dönitz":

"Even though the leaders of a nation sign an instrument of unconditional surrender, that does not deprive the people of the right to retain their national identity and territory. The continuing occupation of the annexed Eastern territories (Prussia, Silesia, Pomerania) by the Soviet Union and Poland is unlawful in international law because the German electorate was never consulted. The "electorate" of Germany is the electorate as it existed within the boundaries of Germany at 31 December 1937.

The present "German Government" is a stooge, being an artifical creation with no continuity derived from the legitimate electorate, and its pronouncements such as 'we have no further claim to this or that territory' have no validity in international law."

In due course empires fall and times change, and the gathering pace of global change may one day present the opportunity to retrieve what was stolen. Until such time it is important to keep alive a claim for lost territories with a legitimate basis in law, and show that annexation is perfectly all right providing it is approved of by the Western Powers.