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Klegutati
Sunday, July 9th, 2006, 04:40 PM
I believe it's quite difficult to tell someones origin from the way they look... Many Turks of North-Eastern Europe look Pontid (same as Gagauz of Ukraine).. Others look of a Nordid origin.. Then again you have to know that there are Arab influence in Ukraine..
http://radomiak.info/91-96/kadra91/tatar_karol.jpgPolandhttp://www.arkki.org/images/MoldovaMatka3.gifMoldova
http://www.elele.com.tr/roportaj/00166/imperiaflex_0_0_0.jpgCrimean Tatar
http://img1.travelblog.org/Photos/90/1314/t/3144-That-s-more-like-it-0.jpgUzbek
http://www.sinananadol.com/assets/09_Karai/Karai03.jpgKaraim
http://www.sinananadol.com/assets/14_Macedonia/Macedonia11.jpgTurkic girl from Macedonia
http://www.peopleteams.org/gagauzi/Defaul3.jpgGagauz Turk
http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/HakKhan/2005-09-28_184409_turko.jpgTurk in Hollywood

Agrippa
Sunday, July 9th, 2006, 04:54 PM
http://www.sinananadol.com/assets/09_Karai/Karai03.jpgKaraim

This girl is a quite typical and beautiful Pontid. The ethnic group has an interesting history...

Klegutati
Sunday, July 9th, 2006, 06:04 PM
This girl is a quite typical and beautiful Pontid. The ethnic group has an interesting history...
Funny thing is that she is not a Europoid, but to most here she is of the Pontid race.. As a matter of fact many Turks are like this because of Persian influence.. So now I am thinking I am probably Tatar/Turkic..:thumbup Here's another Polish Tatar (seems a little Pontid)..
http://pic.piczo.com/img/i139817112_5989_2.jpg

Agrippa
Sunday, July 9th, 2006, 06:53 PM
Funny thing is that she is not a Europoid, but to most here she is of the Pontid race..

She is Europid/Caucasoid, thats for sure and racially European too, however, genetically she might have foreign influences and culturally she is "a problem case" most likely.


As a matter of fact many Turks are like this because of Persian influence..

Yes, many Turks are more like the people which lived in those regions before than true Turkic people by race which would mean Mongolid or at least Aralid-Turanid.


So now I am thinking I am probably Tatar/Turkic.. Here's another Polish Tatar (seems a little Pontid)..

Looks rather like a Dinaroid Turanid me thinks, if going after that picture he could be a Tadjik. Could be just Dinarid though, hard to tell...

Pro-Alpine
Sunday, July 9th, 2006, 06:58 PM
I see some Orientalid influences mainly Iranid

Heksulv
Thursday, July 20th, 2006, 04:28 AM
I think it's entirely possible that East Europeans are related to Turks/Iranians/etc.

I have a book that shows the movements of different Indo-European, Caucasian, and Iranian groups around the continent from 8500 BC. According to the book, the Slavs themselves didn't appear until 1850 BC, but before that, the same area was occupied by a group that was referred to as Pontic, Ponto-Caucasian, Ochre Graves, and by the Finns, who's population appears to have shrunken northward into Russia. The Ponto-Caucasian group at 2750 BC had a range that goes from above the Black Sea, which is where a portion of the Slavs later appeared. At 2250 BC, the Ponto-Caucasians split up into the Iranians and Ocre Graves.

Another thing I noticed is that on the map of 480 BC, the Scyths appear N of the Black Sea, and the Iranians split up into the Sarmatians and Sakas who are N of the Red Sea, and far N East of the Red Sea, respectively. In 192 BC, the Sarmatians migrate into the Scyths land, which is directly south of the Slavs. It's probably there that they picked up some blood from those descended of Iranians.


That, of course, is just from one book, "The Penguin Atlas of Ancient History" by Colin McEvedy.

Agrippa
Thursday, July 20th, 2006, 02:02 PM
Iranians split up into the Sarmatians and Sakas who are N of the Red Sea, and far N East of the Red Sea

Red Sea? I think you confused something...

By the way, the Iranians had their centre in Southern Russia, Ukraine and Western-Central Asia, from which they expanded in all directions. Their types were mostly Nordoid, Mediterranid (Pontid) and Cromagnoid, with changes through time (more Nordoid-Mediterranid later, more Cromagnoid earlier). So they were racially European.

Klegutati
Thursday, July 20th, 2006, 04:22 PM
Agrippa,
Are the modern Pontids of Ukraine, Russia, and Poland directly descended from the Saka/Scythians?:)

Agrippa
Thursday, July 20th, 2006, 05:25 PM
Agrippa,
Are the modern Pontids of Ukraine, Russia, and Poland directly descended from the Saka/Scythians?:)

Those are ethnocultural units, Pontids a racial one, there was never such a clear distinction since the Neolithics like Pontid X and Nordid Y for most regions. F.e. Pontids exist even in the Balticum etc.

However, one can be quite sure that a lot of todays Slavic Pontids in Ukraine and Southern Russia were once Irano-Scythians, many Nordoid and Cromagnoid as well though...the relation of Iranians in Europe to Baltoslavs and Slavs in special are a complicated matter since there is not too much known about early Slavs...

Gesta Bellica
Thursday, July 20th, 2006, 06:42 PM
http://www.sinananadol.com/assets/09_Karai/Karai03.jpgKaraim



Karaim from where? when i was on holidays in lithuania i have heard the story of a small group of Karaims that moved there and settled near the trakia castle..
In the picture that i have seen in the castle's museum they looked darker than this girl on average and quite non-europid (or at least exotic to my eyes)
Nowadays there are few centuries of them left, according to Lithuanian census

Klegutati
Friday, July 21st, 2006, 01:00 AM
This is a Ukrainian Karaim..;)

Heksulv
Friday, July 21st, 2006, 05:59 PM
Red Sea? I think you confused something...

By the way, the Iranians had their centre in Southern Russia, Ukraine and Western-Central Asia, from which they expanded in all directions. Their types were mostly Nordoid, Mediterranid (Pontid) and Cromagnoid, with changes through time (more Nordoid-Mediterranid later, more Cromagnoid earlier). So they were racially European.I did get it confused, I meant the Caspian Sea. Thanks for telling me though :)

Polak
Tuesday, August 1st, 2006, 02:30 PM
In Poland anyone who looks a little "funny" is automatically thought to have Tatar blood.

Most Poles, even university educated historians, have little clue about the Finno-Ugric influence on Poland. They assume that the natives of Poland were always blond and light eyed, and anyone who doesn't fit that stereotype has foreign admixture. And if they have high cheekbones and squinty eyes, then the're part Tatar.

In fact, the opposite is true, because the aboriginal population of Poland was a lot rounder headed and higher cheek boned, and probably a lot darker, than the Indo-European Slavs.

Today's Polish population is mostly of Slavic descent, but also with some influence from these Finnic aboriginals, as well as admixture from other parts of Europe.

True East Asian admixture was brought into Poland much later, with the partly Mongol Tatars who settled in the north east of the country, and also with Kossack armies that occupied Poalnd and included Kalmucks in their ranks.

Having said all that, East Asian admixture in Poland and Eastern Europe as a whole doesn't seem to be very important. If you look at the latets genetic data you'll see that Eastern Europeans do not deviate from the European average, and in fact here seem to be further away from North American Indians (close relatives of East Asians) than Swedes.

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7235/genclustrzbj7.jpg

http://genetics.plosjournals.org/per...0143.eo r.pdf