PDA

View Full Version : Questions about Hallstatt Nordids



Götterschicksal
Wednesday, August 13th, 2003, 03:02 AM
Hallstatt is the name of an Austrian village and a nearby archaeological site where extensive skeletal remains were discovered. This region seems to have been the seat of the Hallstatt Nordic racial type prior to its northward migration ca. 3000 B.C.

Yet this type is not previlant in my area?


What was the racial, cultural, linguistic, and religious characteristics of pre-IE europeans like?

Azdaja
Wednesday, August 13th, 2003, 04:34 AM
As to the 2nd question:
A good book to read is "The Goddesses and Gods of Old Europe" by Marija Gimbutas.
According to her findings (which are probably open to interpretation, to be honest) the 'Old Europeans" were a rather pacifistic group of people who venerated a "Great Goddess" and a "Horned God" , as well as a 'Child', in various forms.
When the Indo-Europeans invaded and imposed their own Gods over the conquered Old Europeans, their older Gods and Goddesses often managed to 'slip through' and become a part of the otherwise IE pantheon. Examples from Greece would include Hecate (Goddess) and Pan (Horned God).

As to the 1st Question:
I believe this is the area that Coon theorized the Danubians and BAs 'met up', 'mixed', and became Hallstatt Nordics. Thus he named the subrace after the place in which he believed them to be 'born'.
I could be wrong, though. I'm just taking an semi-educated guess.

Stríbog
Wednesday, August 13th, 2003, 05:48 AM
I've always questioned the Hallstatt name for Nordics. Hallstatt was a culturally Celtic center following the Urnfield culture, if memory serves me, which conflicts with the Nordic theory. Given that there is virtually no trace of Nordics having originated high in the Alps, I would rather not use the name Hallstatt.

Götterschicksal
Wednesday, August 13th, 2003, 06:21 AM
I've always questioned the Hallstatt name for Nordics. Hallstatt was a culturally Celtic center following the Urnfield culture, if memory serves me, which conflicts with the Nordic theory. Given that there is virtually no trace of Nordics having originated high in the Alps, I would rather not use the name Hallstatt.

Yes the Halstatt Culture was Celtic.

Azdaja
Wednesday, August 13th, 2003, 06:25 AM
Wait a minute. I forgot about that.
The Hallstatt culture was Iron Age, right? And the Hallstatt Nordic is said to be the 'Iron Age' Nordic by Coon. In TRoE he states that the Hallstatt culture was Indo-European, and the Hallstatt Nordic was the Indo-European racial type.
In fact, I think Coon states that the Hallstatt culture was the first 'true' IE culture.

Götterschicksal
Wednesday, August 13th, 2003, 06:27 AM
"Great Goddess"

Any relation to the Venus of Willendorf?

http://witcombe.sbc.edu/willendorf/willendorfdiscovery.html

Azdaja
Wednesday, August 13th, 2003, 06:31 AM
Any relation to the Venus of Willendorf?

http://witcombe.sbc.edu/willendorf/willendorfdiscovery.html

Yes indeed. That statue, and many others like it, are largely responsible for the "Goddess" theories of Gimbutas.

Götterschicksal
Wednesday, August 13th, 2003, 06:40 AM
Wait a minute. I forgot about that.
The Hallstatt culture was Iron Age, right? And the Hallstatt Nordic is said to be the 'Iron Age' Nordic by Coon. In TRoE he states that the Hallstatt culture was Indo-European, and the Hallstatt Nordic was the Indo-European racial type.
In fact, I think Coon states that the Hallstatt culture was the first 'true' IE culture.

Yes, Eary iron age around 700 b.c.
They were from Germany and Austria, across france, down into spain (celtiberian). I have an atlas of the ancient world, right here on my desk. It has a photo of europe and the yellow is the Hallstatt Culture, it has in paranthesis "Celts". Then it has a brown striped area to donate the Hallstatt "Heartland", Austria, Southern Germany, and Modern Czech.

Azdaja
Wednesday, August 13th, 2003, 08:00 AM
Ok. I'm going solely off my own memory here, so I could be mistaken. But I am pretty sure that in Coons scheme, the copper age Urnfield culture was the predecessor of the iron age Hallstatt culture.
The Danubians and BAs began 'meeting up', and mixing (both racially and culturally), and the copper age result was the Urnfield culture. This progressed to the Hallstatt culture during the iron age, the racial result being a Danubian/BA mix, which Coon calls "Hallstatt Nordic".
So if I'm right, that should answer your original question.

Of course, chances are Coon was wrong about the origins of the Hallstatt Nordic. I say this based on the (admittedly little - I just began reading yesterday) knowledge I have of the haplotypes. If the Hallstatt nordic is the Indo-European racial type, then Eu19 - the Indo European marker - should be found at high levels in areas where Hallstatt nordics are common. However, this marker is not common at all in Western Europe. It is, in fact, an Eastern European marker.

Pro-Alpine
Friday, June 30th, 2006, 01:59 AM
Is the name realted to Hallstatt Austria?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallstatt

Coon stated that this racial type was of central european origin.

And are they anywhere as a total population?

Theudiskaz
Friday, June 30th, 2006, 02:45 AM
Yes the Hallstatt Nordid type is named after Hallstatt, Austria. During the Hallstatt period of the Bronze Age, a population of...Hallstatt (pure) Nordids lived in Celtic central Europe. There is no longer a solid population of Hallstatt Nordids, but many individuals who closely approximate the original Hallstatt Nordic can be found still in Southern Sweden and Norway, i.e. the Goeta/Gothic type and Skandonorid type.