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vingul
Tuesday, June 20th, 2006, 12:18 PM
Judging from the map by v. Eickstedt, Kolids are supposedly the northeastern Indian racial strain typified by the Munda, the Santals and other indigenous tribes. I have heard them described as "Proto-Australoids" and "a Melanid subtype". Can anyone tell me, are they considered Melanids/Indo-Melanids, or something different? A strong Veddid element is obviously at play. Perhaps even some low-level Paleo-Mongolid.

Three Santals (presumably mostly Kolid, the boy more on the Indid side):

http://www.fotothing.com/photos/611/6110528533b72c12c2094d6437d85eee.jpg http://www.fotothing.com/photos/62e/62e303e8612e843b98b94ab51c6da7b2.jpg http://www.fotothing.com/photos/16f/16f18cdedbf0acc00e3ecc6a3e24a3b5.jpg

Digitalseal
Tuesday, June 20th, 2006, 10:55 PM
They are mainly Veddid which is an Australid subdivision, but in modern times, Europid(Indid subtype) admixture and some Paleo-Mongolid admixture is common among them, and is typical for the indigenous northeastern Indians.

the original Kolids are most likely descended from the M migration wave.

vingul
Wednesday, June 21st, 2006, 02:12 AM
They are mainly Veddid which is an Australid subdivision,

Yes, arguably (albeit, some scholars express a desire to relate Veddids to Europids, rather than Australids).


but in modern times, Europid(Indid subtype) admixture and some Paleo-Mongolid admixture is common among them, and is typical for the indigenous northeastern Indians.

But do you know what is the anthropological incentive for distinguishing between this northeastern group and other mostly Veddid populations to the south of it? Which features set Kolids apart so much as to warrant a separate designation?


the original Kolids are most likely descended from the M migration wave.

Sure, among the earliest coastal migrations, as mirrored by the propagation of Y hg C (and D).

Oskorei
Wednesday, June 21st, 2006, 08:50 AM
This is not strictly scientific, but I've been reading the Indologist Alain Danielou lately, and he writes much on the old religious tradition of India (Shivaism).

According to Danielou, the Shivaists have several millenia-old history-books, describing how India has been populated roughly three times. First by the original inhabitants, the Munda-peoples. Then by Dravidians, coming from a lost continent or island south of todays India, and then by the Aryans.

He believes that the Mundas are proto-Australoids (called adivasi in India, first inhabitants). They speak Munda or Mon-Khmer languages. He counts the Veddas of Ceylon, the Khonds of Central India, Khasis of Assan and the Shom Pen of Great Nicobar., Outside India, the Sakai of Malaysia, Moi of Indochina, the Orang Batin, Lubu and Ulu of Sumatra, Toula of Celebes, and the Aborigines. He also believes that they have a relationship with the African Pygmies and Bushmen (and probably old Egyptians and Europeans too).

vingul
Wednesday, June 21st, 2006, 12:34 PM
Thanks, Oskorei. I personally believe that neither Andamanese (and similar SEA Negrito peoples), nor Melanesians (e.g. Papuans) are closely related to the Australid-Veddid clade. Australids and Veddids either share "recent" synapomorphies or have retained a generalized sapiens ancestral condition.

catchmeifyoukhan
Monday, February 12th, 2007, 11:18 PM
Yet, Alain Danielou's studies have been recently popularized by Bernard Sergent's "Genesis of India" (La Genèse de l'Inde, Payot, 1998), which is quite convincing.