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Conquistador
Thursday, February 27th, 2003, 09:53 PM
The Welsh and Irish Celts have been found to be the genetic blood-brothers of Basques, scientists have revealed. The gene patterns of the three races passed down through the male line are all "strikingly similar", researchers concluded. Basques can trace their roots back to the Stone Age and are one of Europe's most distinct people, fiercely proud of their ancestry and traditions. The research adds to previous studies which have suggested a possible link between the Celts and Basques, dating back tens of thousands of years.

"The project started with our trying to assess whether the Vikings made an important genetic contribution to the population of Orkney," Professor David Goldstein of University College London (UCL) told BBC News. He and his colleagues looked at Y-chromosomes, passed from father to son, of Celtic and Norwegian populations. They found them to be quite different. "But we also noticed that there's something quite striking about the Celtic populations, and that is that there's not a lot of genetic variation on the Y-chromosome," he said.

To try to work out where the Celtic population originally came from, the team from UCL, the University of Oxford and the University of California at Davis also looked at Basques. "On the Y-chromosome the Celtic populations turn out to be statistically indistinguishable from the Basques," Professor Goldstein said. The comparison was made because Basques are thought by most experts to be very similar to the people who lived in Europe before the advent of farming.


Genetic tests have identified key gene groups - "We conclude that both of these populations are reflecting pre-farming Europe," he said. Professor Goldstein's team looked at the genetic profiles of 88 individuals from Anglesey, North Wales, 146 from Ireland with Irish Gaelic surnames, and 50 Basques. "We know of no other study that provides direct evidence of a close relationship in the paternal heritage of the Basque- and the Celtic-speaking populations of Britain," the team write in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

But it is still unclear whether the link is specific to the Celts and the Basques, or whether they are both simply the closest surviving relatives of the early population of Europe. What is clear is that the Neolithic Celts took women from outside their community. When the scientists looked at female genetic patterns as well, they found evidence of genetic material from northern Europe. This influence helped even out some of the genetic differences between the Celts and their Northern European neighbours. The work was carried out in connection with a BBC television programme on the Vikings.


What do you all think about this? Mainly, I am not suprised since many Basques as well as the Galicians in Western Spain still use the 'Gaita' (Bagpipe) in many festivals in certain times of the year, probably from Celtic cultural influence. This genetic link between the Basque and the Irish and Welsh can be a result of the two continential Celtic invasions into Spain from Central Europe before 1,000 BC. There's no doubt that the Celts mixed with the Basques during that time as they did with the Mediterranean Iberians. But due to the fact of the high Rh-negative factor in the Basque blood group, causing many stillbirths between Basques and non-Basques, even until this day, the mix was not as profound as it was with the Celtiberians. I need to research more into Basque history and genetics to find out more about this. Any thoughts about this anyone?

GreenHeart
Friday, February 28th, 2003, 07:53 AM
Thats interesting. That would explain why some people in England/British Isles look similar to the square faced basques. Does Rh negative mean for example O- or A- etc.....?

Azdaja
Friday, February 28th, 2003, 08:18 AM
I read something about this 6 months ago or so. It's just too bad they're using terms like "Celts" and "Welsh", rather than refering to these people by race.
My assumption here is that by "Celts" they mean Brunns and not the actual Indo-European bringers of Celtic speech...at least when they say something like this:

"But it is still unclear whether the link is specific to the Celts and the Basques, or whether they are both simply the closest surviving relatives of the early population of Europe."

If they ARE refering to the actual Indo-European Celts, then the theories most of us are familiar with (ie: Coon) are very, very flawed on many points.

goidelicwarrior
Friday, February 28th, 2003, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by NordicPower88
Thats interesting. That would explain why some people in England/British Isles look similar to the square faced basques. Does Rh negative mean for example O- or A- etc.....?

Basque( North Spanish) phenotype

GreenHeart
Friday, February 28th, 2003, 10:24 AM
I've seen basques in my race books, they are square faced. The fact that you can post north spaniards doesn't mean much in the way of basques.

There's not much online, but I have found a few things after I figured out that they call themselves Euskaldi

http://www.ling.lu.se/persons/Arthur/images/euskaldunak2.jpeg

http://www.ling.lu.se/persons/Arthur/euskera.html

http://www.naboinc.com/images/kantari-eguna-1.jpg

GreenHeart
Friday, February 28th, 2003, 10:29 AM
It's really very pretty where they live. So pretty that I almost wanna live there myself....x_love
http://www1.euskadi.net/argazki_bidai/foto_i.apl?foto=vf_19970225_07.jpg&num_foto=7&codigo=1&texto_ingles=%20&href_ingles=

A basque from my race book.

Von Braun
Friday, February 28th, 2003, 10:51 AM
This lends credence to my claim that the Basques are white Mediterranean, and that British white Mediterraneans are their relatives. A few weeks ago, I was engaged in a debate in this forum on this issue, and I think it was Prodigal Son who claimed that the Basques are Alpine, and not Mediterranean. He also claimed that French Mediterraneans (there are Basques in France) are not related to British Mediterraneans. It seems he is mistaken.

Basques are certainly not mixed race semites, nor are the other Mediterraneans in France (who are probably Basque splinter groups or relatives, just as British Mediterraneans seem to be Basque splinter groups or relatives).

GreenHeart
Friday, February 28th, 2003, 10:56 AM
Well here's what I meant before though, Elijah Wood for example, is an American but of English blood as far as I know, but he resembles a basque in the face.

http://www.ciudadfutura.com/elcriticon/elijahwood7.jpg

http://www.iespana.es/elwoodhobbit/revistas/japrev2.jpg

Hamlet VI
Friday, February 28th, 2003, 04:03 PM
I think there's something wrong with your 'square faced theory'. I'll admit that I'm simply re-hashing Carleton Coon and have never been to the Basque regions, but he classified them as being Mediteranean and having particularly narrow mandibles, the complete opposite of the wide mandibles that give people the appearance of having square faces. There might be some Basques with square faces, but to characterize that as a Basque trait.....then again, his whole section on the Basques is suspect, he mentions how the Basques are extremely similiar to the Keltic Irom Age type, even though he says that Basques have straight foreheads whereas the Keltic type had/has an extremely sloping forehead, and features such as low heads are widely spread throughtout Europe.

goidelicwarrior
Friday, February 28th, 2003, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by Von Braun
This lends credence to my claim that the Basques are white Mediterranean, and that British white Mediterraneans are their relatives. A few weeks ago, I was engaged in a debate in this forum on this issue, and I think it was Prodigal Son who claimed that the Basques are Alpine, and not Mediterranean. He also claimed that French Mediterraneans (there are Basques in France) are not related to British Mediterraneans. It seems he is mistaken.

Basques are certainly not mixed race semites, nor are the other Mediterraneans in France (who are probably Basque splinter groups or relatives, just as British Mediterraneans seem to be Basque splinter groups or relatives).

mixed race semites?????? they are the fucking oldest Europeans alive... maybe you all know that high forehead narrow short or long noses are typically Caucaisan traits.. that is... the extreme opposite to Asiatic or Negroid traits!

Hamlet VI
Friday, February 28th, 2003, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by Nordidu
I read something about this 6 months ago or so. It's just too bad they're using terms like "Celts" and "Welsh", rather than refering to these people by race.
My assumption here is that by "Celts" they mean Brunns and not the actual Indo-European bringers of Celtic speech...at least when they say something like this:

"But it is still unclear whether the link is specific to the Celts and the Basques, or whether they are both simply the closest surviving relatives of the early population of Europe."

If they ARE refering to the actual Indo-European Celts, then the theories most of us are familiar with (ie: Coon) are very, very flawed on many points.

You're right, they're refering to the Irish, not the Celts. You can't do genetic tests on actual Celts because there is no pure Celtic population anywhere in Europe (and if there was, it wouldn't be in Western Britian). The genetic similiarity between Ireland and the Basques is possibly because, like the article said, both populations are the purest descendants of 'old Europeans'.

Hamlet VI
Friday, February 28th, 2003, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by triskel
mixed race semites?????? they are the fucking oldest Europeans alive... maybe you all know that high forehead narrow short or long noses are typically Caucaisan traits.. that is... the extreme opposite to Asiatic or Negroid traits!

Actually I think the Basques are supposed to be low vaulted, not high vaulted. Eastern Europeans usually have higher vaults than Western Europeans.

Allenson
Friday, February 28th, 2003, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by Nordidu
I read something about this 6 months ago or so. It's just too bad they're using terms like "Celts" and "Welsh", rather than refering to these people by race.
My assumption here is that by "Celts" they mean Brunns and not the actual Indo-European bringers of Celtic speech...at least when they say something like this:

"But it is still unclear whether the link is specific to the Celts and the Basques, or whether they are both simply the closest surviving relatives of the early population of Europe."

If they ARE refering to the actual Indo-European Celts, then the theories most of us are familiar with (ie: Coon) are very, very flawed on many points.



Yes, I'd say that you're right on target here. I don't think that they are refering to what we might call, and Coon/SNPA do call the 'Keltic-Nordic'. Instead, it's likely that what they mean by 'Celtic' we would call Brunn. Indeed, the Brunns are a branch of "the closest surviving relatives of the early population of Europe."

Great observation, Nordidu....

Tore
Friday, February 28th, 2003, 08:33 PM
This lends credence to my claim that the Basques are white Mediterranean, and that British white Mediterraneans are their relatives. A few weeks ago, I was engaged in a debate in this forum on this issue, and I think it was Prodigal Son who claimed that the Basques are Alpine, and not Mediterranean. He also claimed that French Mediterraneans (there are Basques in France) are not related to British Mediterraneans. It seems he is mistaken.

The Basques are not related to the mediterraneans of the British Isles, rather the Upper Paleolithics.

The relationship comes in the form of hg 1(haplogroup 1), which is found in high frequencies in both populations.

GreenHeart
Friday, February 28th, 2003, 09:57 PM
Here's what Lundman has to say:

"The Spanish Basques belong predominantly to a Mediterranean subrace, which is also rather closely related to the North-Atlantid subrace of the Nordid race. (He also says that North Atlantids are related to UP's) In particular they are characterized by their athletic body-build or constitution. This is indicated also by the sharp chin and the rather large nose. However, the very pronounced degree of low-skulledness makes it impossible to think in this connection of Dinarid or Litorid strains. The Basques are also characterized by unique serological traits, such as almost no blood type gene q and a very high frequency of the Rh-negative blood type. In pigmentation the Basques are not at all homogeneous. In addition, the French Basques contain Alpine strains. This results in an easily distinguishable local type, Gautypus, with almost distended temples.

North Spain is predominantly West-Mediterranid in race, with several local types. There are also Nordid strains, Alpine strains in the Asturian mountain region, and weak Bend strains in Galicia. Northern Portugal resembles Spanish Galicia in anthropological structure. The rest of the Iberian peninsula is principally South-Mediterranid, with Berid strains in the Sierra Nevada region. We find a strong Litorid mixture in a wedge-shaped area in southeastern Spain. The whole southeast Spanish coast forms the base of the wedge, while the point reaches deep into the land. There is also a unique population isolate in the Castilian border region, which unfortunately has still not been comprehensively investigated."

It's an interesting article.
http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/lundman-races.htm

Von Braun
Friday, February 28th, 2003, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by triskel
mixed race semites?????? they are the fucking oldest Europeans alive... maybe you all know that high forehead narrow short or long noses are typically Caucaisan traits.. that is... the extreme opposite to Asiatic or Negroid traits!

Excuse me, but if you would bother to read what I wrote:

"Basques are certainly not mixed race semites"

Conquistador
Saturday, March 1st, 2003, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by triskel
mixed race semites?????? they are the fucking oldest Europeans alive... maybe you all know that high forehead narrow short or long noses are typically Caucaisan traits.. that is... the extreme opposite to Asiatic or Negroid traits!

triskel, stop being such a drama queen. If you would actually READ the text instead of making comments which have no basis in truth, we would have civility on the forum board. Nazzjonlist has made it very clear that flame wars are NOT tolerated. BE CIVIL, triskel.

goidelicwarrior
Monday, March 3rd, 2003, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by NordicPower88
Here's what Lundman has to say:

"The Spanish Basques belong predominantly to a Mediterranean subrace, which is also rather closely related to the North-Atlantid subrace of the Nordid race. (He also says that North Atlantids are related to UP's) In particular they are characterized by their athletic body-build or constitution. This is indicated also by the sharp chin and the rather large nose. However, the very pronounced degree of low-skulledness makes it impossible to think in this connection of Dinarid or Litorid strains. The Basques are also characterized by unique serological traits, such as almost no blood type gene q and a very high frequency of the Rh-negative blood type. In pigmentation the Basques are not at all homogeneous. In addition, the French Basques contain Alpine strains. This results in an easily distinguishable local type, Gautypus, with almost distended temples.

North Spain is predominantly West-Mediterranid in race, with several local types. There are also Nordid strains, Alpine strains in the Asturian mountain region, and weak Bend strains in Galicia. Northern Portugal resembles Spanish Galicia in anthropological structure. The rest of the Iberian peninsula is principally South-Mediterranid, with Berid strains in the Sierra Nevada region. We find a strong Litorid mixture in a wedge-shaped area in southeastern Spain. The whole southeast Spanish coast forms the base of the wedge, while the point reaches deep into the land. There is also a unique population isolate in the Castilian border region, which unfortunately has still not been comprehensively investigated."

It's an interesting article.
http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/lundman-races.htm

You should not relay to much on Lundman, he was a Swedish racialist and favores his own stock.. just a note!

Hamlet VI
Tuesday, March 4th, 2003, 12:36 AM
Originally posted by triskel
You should not relay to much on Lundman, he was a Swedish racialist and favores his own stock.. just a note!

What does his nationality have to do with anything? He's merely noting the sub-races found in Spain. Oh, let me guess, you don't like what he has to say?

Azdaja
Tuesday, March 4th, 2003, 01:22 AM
Well Triskel does kind of make a good point. It really frustrates me to see how biased so many (usually amateur, but sometimes also professional) physical anthropologists can be.
It seems like everyone has their own agenda...very irritating.
I remember a couple months ago I was arguing with Moody, and he told me about how biased this field of study was. I did not believe him at the time, but he was right.

Lundman himself I'm not too familiar with. Still studying Coon...I've got 15 pages of notes on TRoE, lol. Are there any online versions of Lundmans books? Not just excerpts like SNPA has, but whole books so one can get a good grasp on his theories.

goidelicwarrior
Tuesday, March 4th, 2003, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by Hamlet VI
What does his nationality have to do with anything? He's merely noting the sub-races found in Spain. Oh, let me guess, you don't like what he has to say?

ooohh come on Hamlet, Englishmen described the Irish as subhumans, lundman describes some Swedish subtypes as not as " worthy " as the Swedish archetype, I am sure someone from Tuscany would picture themselves as the most civilized noble race derived from Etruscans and Latins that created a high culture while Lundmans ancestors still climbed the tree tops, contrary to that, lundman simply sees a meditereanean... b.t.w. what would I not like in what he writes ??

cribraria
Thursday, February 23rd, 2006, 12:08 PM
Genetics shows that Europeans are made up of two groups. The hunter gatherers and the agriculturalist/seafarers. Prior to about 13,000 years ago, genetics shows that they were one group. Judging by the sophistocation of the 14,000 year old Magdalenian period, I doubt that these people were quite as primitive as archaeologists have us believe.

One group remained as landlubbers and formed the Germanic and central European tribes. The other group took to the ocean and found themselves on an island in the mid Atlantic (Atlantis). Then 11,500 years ago as ice melted at the poles, the mid Atlantic ridge popped back under the waves, destroying the core of this civilization. The main surviving colony was on the upper Nile (Egyptians were once Na Dene speaking Caucasians), but many other colonies survived in America and North Africa. The old Copper cultures (9,000years ago) of North America and North Africa are a relic of these Atlanteans. Both these people spoke the Na Dene language and had Basque genes, also seen in the Berbers. 6,000 years ago, these red heads of America left the Bahamas and the East Coast of North America as it dissappeared under the waves and migrated back to Europe to begin the megalithic cultures along the coastline of Europe. They brought agriculture, science and a powerful religion to the society of the more primitive tribes of the mainland. During the Bronze age these seafarers continued to trade with America, removing 500,000 tons of copper from Royal island in Lake Superior. Gaelic river names, Dolmens and Menhirs in New England and New Hampshire are proof that around 6,000 rears ago the people on either side of the Atlantic were the same.
(Gaelic language is derived from the Atlantean Na Dene language)
Many things have changed since then, such as Asians entered America about 6,000 years ago, interbreeding with the genetically weaker red heads, until today very few remain. European Haplotype X is still present in the Algonkians and Athapaskans, proving that they were originally Europeans. In Europe these red heads interbred with people less different, so although the weaker traits of these earlier people were lost, the physical appearance did not change as much.
There are still relic groups of these American red heads in the Pacific, for example the Easter Islanders possess Basque/Celtic genes, as do many chiefly families of Polynesia. These people were not Celts as such, they were relic Caucasian American Indians.
Without understanding this ancient history of America, the history of Europe and the Pacific will never be understood properly.

Allenson
Thursday, February 23rd, 2006, 01:59 PM
Interesting thoughts, Cribraria.

Being a New Englander myself (obviously of later stock the theorized ancient Europids who came here...) I have taken a strong interest in the old stone structures and other relics that dot the countryside around here. There are controversial theories out there--many of which will not gain the ear of traditional archeologists who can't get past the whole Clovis thing. I certainly can't claim to be an expert--but I have done a bit of reading and field tripping.

One little anecdote: I've read about the great copper mine in the Great Lakes area. Also though, there is evidence of significant mines in the Shawangunk Ridge of southeastern New York. I don't think that they were copper... I forget.

Also, I live in the part of Vermont where copper was onced mined by the later Europid colonizers and it is no coincidence I would reckon, that there is a concentration of stone structures and other artifacts around here...

RusViking
Thursday, February 23rd, 2006, 09:51 PM
Genetics shows that Europeans are made up of two groups. The hunter gatherers and the agriculturalist/seafarers. Prior to about 13,000 years ago, genetics shows that they were one group. Judging by the sophistocation of the 14,000 year old Magdalenian period, I doubt that these people were quite as primitive as archaeologists have us believe.

One group remained as landlubbers and formed the Germanic and central European tribes. The other group took to the ocean and found themselves on an island in the mid Atlantic (Atlantis). Then 11,500 years ago as ice melted at the poles, the mid Atlantic ridge popped back under the waves, destroying the core of this civilization. The main surviving colony was on the upper Nile (Egyptians were once Na Dene speaking Caucasians), but many other colonies survived in America and North Africa. The old Copper cultures (9,000years ago) of North America and North Africa are a relic of these Atlanteans. Both these people spoke the Na Dene language and had Basque genes, also seen in the Berbers. 6,000 years ago, these red heads of America left the Bahamas and the East Coast of North America as it dissappeared under the waves and migrated back to Europe to begin the megalithic cultures along the coastline of Europe. They brought agriculture, science and a powerful religion to the society of the more primitive tribes of the mainland. During the Bronze age these seafarers continued to trade with America, removing 500,000 tons of copper from Royal island in Lake Superior. Gaelic river names, Dolmens and Menhirs in New England and New Hampshire are proof that around 6,000 rears ago the people on either side of the Atlantic were the same.
(Gaelic language is derived from the Atlantean Na Dene language)
Many things have changed since then, such as Asians entered America about 6,000 years ago, interbreeding with the genetically weaker red heads, until today very few remain. European Haplotype X is still present in the Algonkians and Athapaskans, proving that they were originally Europeans. In Europe these red heads interbred with people less different, so although the weaker traits of these earlier people were lost, the physical appearance did not change as much.
There are still relic groups of these American red heads in the Pacific, for example the Easter Islanders possess Basque/Celtic genes, as do many chiefly families of Polynesia. These people were not Celts as such, they were relic Caucasian American Indians.
Without understanding this ancient history of America, the history of Europe and the Pacific will never be understood properly.


How can you possibly come to these conclusions?

Witch_of_Narnia
Thursday, February 23rd, 2006, 10:26 PM
look at this picture, they look similar to me, one is irish and the other one is basque

cribraria
Friday, February 24th, 2006, 12:26 AM
In answer to Allenson. Professor Standford and Dr Bradley, two well renowned archaeologists have finally admitted that there is nothing whatsoever in the archeological evidence that links Clovis hunters with Siberia and the Bering Land bridge scenario. Instead all the oldest Clovis sites are around the Gulf of Mexico. Not only this, but the tool kit of the Clovis is exactly the same as the Solutreans of Spain. The only issue is that 18,000 year old tools of Spain bear the closest resemblance to 13,000 Clovis. Rather than being a problem, this gives further weight to the idea that these people spent 5,000 years on a mid Atlantic ridge island before reaching America. If you doubt the possibility of a mid Atlantic ridge island existing check out Cedric Leonard's site Quest for Atlantis - geological evidence. Apparently numerous sedimentary beach lines have been found along the ridge. Then there have been mammoth bones dredged up from the mid Atlantic ridge area, further proof that this area was once pushed up above sea level.
If Rusman doubts my conclusions, then read Barry Fells work in the book America BC, although his chronology is not entirely correct.
Have a look at Anasazi legends - they are the same as Irish legends, further evidence that these people once shared a common history.
American pottery on the east coast is essentially the same as the Bell Beaker pottery of Europe - including the patterns.
The Mayan War god 'Votan' is linguistically the same as the Viking war god 'Woden' also suggesting a common ancient heritage.
I am not saying Vikings fathered the Mayan culture, I am saying that 6,000 years ago these people were the same. but since then vikings interbred with Germanic tribes and the Mayans interbred with Austronesians from Taiwan (Kukul Khan).
Genetics shows that Basque genes show a divergence from Europe 13,000 years ago and a recombination 6,000 years ago. Their absence from Europe for 7,000 years can only be explained by their presence in America during that time. Native American history asserts that between 9,700 years ago and 6,000 years ago was the Age of the Red Heads - in America. Prior to that it was the age of Blonde haired bearded giants starting 18,000 years ago (in America). Atlantis was during the Golden age, ending 11,500 years ago.
In Europe archaeologists find it difficult to understand how Megalithic sites on Ireland and in Wales are of the same age as those in Brittany (Armorica - a timeless name for the people of America). To accept that these people arrived by sea via the Gulf Stream from America is too big a step for many to take.
The giant white shark of the Bahamas was created by the same people that constructed the giant white horse of England, not only this, but a branch culture of these red heads also created the Nazca lines of South America. Today it is still in these peoples blood and they can be seen creating crop circles in England - just for the challenge and the mystery of it all.
If you are not convinced, then read my website called; Polynesian Pathways at www.polynesian-prehistory.com

Daglaf
Thursday, April 6th, 2006, 12:01 PM
I've seen basques in my race books, they are square faced. The fact that you can post north spaniards doesn't mean much in the way of basques.

There's not much online, but I have found a few things after I figured out that they call themselves Euskaldi

http://www.ling.lu.se/persons/Arthur/images/euskaldunak2.jpeg

http://www.ling.lu.se/persons/Arthur/euskera.html

http://www.naboinc.com/images/kantari-eguna-1.jpg
These kids don't look squqre faced to me. Some on this thread say Basques are square faced. I don't understand.

Horagalles
Thursday, April 6th, 2006, 12:21 PM
That one would find similar Genes amongst Irish and Basques won't surprise me at all. Both may have a strong component of proto-European blood.
That we refer to the Irish today as Celts doesn't mean that those Celts settling on that island replaced the pre-Aryan population completely. Nietzsche also wrote on this.


In the Latin word malus (which I place alongside melas [black]) the common man could be designated as the dark-coloured, above all as the dark-haired ("hic niger est" [this man is black]), [B]as the pre-Aryan inhabitant of Italian soil, who stood out from those who became dominant, the blonds, that is, the conquering race of Aryans, most clearly through this colour. At any rate, the Gaelic race offers me an exactly corresponding example. The word fin (for example, in the name Fin-Gal), the term designating nobility and finally the good, noble, and pure, originally referred to the blond-headed man in contrast to the dusky, dark-haired original inhabitants.
Incidentally, the Celts were a thoroughly blond race. People are wrong when they link the traces of a basically dark-haired population, which are noticeable on the carefully prepared ethnographic maps of Germany, with any Celtic origin and mixing of blood, as Virchow does. It is much rather the case that in these places the pre-Aryan population of Germany emerged. (The same is true for almost all of Europe: essentially the conquered races finally attained the upper hand for themselves once again in colour, shortness of skull, perhaps even in the intellectual and social instincts: who can confirm for us that modern democracy, the even more modern anarchism, and indeed that preference for the "Commune," for the primitive form of society, which all European socialists now share, does not indicate a monstrous counter-attack and that the ruling and master race, the Aryans, is not being defeated, even physiologically?)
http://www.mala.bc.ca/~johnstoi/Nietzsche/genealogy1.htm

RusViking
Thursday, April 6th, 2006, 03:57 PM
In answer to Allenson. Professor Standford and Dr Bradley, two well renowned archaeologists have finally admitted that there is nothing whatsoever in the archeological evidence that links Clovis hunters with Siberia and the Bering Land bridge scenario. Instead all the oldest Clovis sites are around the Gulf of Mexico. Not only this, but the tool kit of the Clovis is exactly the same as the Solutreans of Spain. The only issue is that 18,000 year old tools of Spain bear the closest resemblance to 13,000 Clovis. Rather than being a problem, this gives further weight to the idea that these people spent 5,000 years on a mid Atlantic ridge island before reaching America. If you doubt the possibility of a mid Atlantic ridge island existing check out Cedric Leonard's site Quest for Atlantis - geological evidence. Apparently numerous sedimentary beach lines have been found along the ridge. Then there have been mammoth bones dredged up from the mid Atlantic ridge area, further proof that this area was once pushed up above sea level.
If Rusman doubts my conclusions, then read Barry Fells work in the book America BC, although his chronology is not entirely correct.
Have a look at Anasazi legends - they are the same as Irish legends, further evidence that these people once shared a common history.
American pottery on the east coast is essentially the same as the Bell Beaker pottery of Europe - including the patterns.
The Mayan War god 'Votan' is linguistically the same as the Viking war god 'Woden' also suggesting a common ancient heritage.
I am not saying Vikings fathered the Mayan culture, I am saying that 6,000 years ago these people were the same. but since then vikings interbred with Germanic tribes and the Mayans interbred with Austronesians from Taiwan (Kukul Khan).
Genetics shows that Basque genes show a divergence from Europe 13,000 years ago and a recombination 6,000 years ago. Their absence from Europe for 7,000 years can only be explained by their presence in America during that time. Native American history asserts that between 9,700 years ago and 6,000 years ago was the Age of the Red Heads - in America. Prior to that it was the age of Blonde haired bearded giants starting 18,000 years ago (in America). Atlantis was during the Golden age, ending 11,500 years ago.
In Europe archaeologists find it difficult to understand how Megalithic sites on Ireland and in Wales are of the same age as those in Brittany (Armorica - a timeless name for the people of America). To accept that these people arrived by sea via the Gulf Stream from America is too big a step for many to take.
The giant white shark of the Bahamas was created by the same people that constructed the giant white horse of England, not only this, but a branch culture of these red heads also created the Nazca lines of South America. Today it is still in these peoples blood and they can be seen creating crop circles in England - just for the challenge and the mystery of it all.
If you are not convinced, then read my website called; Polynesian Pathways at www.polynesian-prehistory.com (http://www.polynesian-prehistory.com)

Yes, I doubt your conclusions, but I wouldn't be surprised if this was all or partially true. Just looking for good evidence. Actually, I tend to agree, intuitively, but good evidence is hard to come by.

Here
Monday, June 12th, 2006, 08:44 PM
Here I found this article translated, I read it in Spanish ;) :

Basques people, better known as Euskalduna in their language. Basque is one of the only language in Europe that is not Indo-European in origin. In fact, Basque has no know relatives. The origins of Basque is a mystery. Some linguists believe it is related to Armenian, Etruscan, Finnish, Hungarian, Indians tribes of America, Ainu, and even the language of lost Atlantis. Basque seems to show some characteristics of Caucasian languages. Some even think Basques are directly related to Cro-Magnon humans, basically caveman. Basques have a high incidence of Rh negative blood. They are genetically related to Irish, Scots, and Welsh. Basques live in northern Spain and southern France. Prominent Basques are Louis Daguerre, the inventor of photography and Cristina Saralegui. Also Evita Peron and Che Guevara are Basque. Many Spanish conquistadors and explorers were Basque. There are some speculations that Christopher Columbus is Basque. It is even thought that Basques and Cro-Magnon lived in England, Ireland, and Scotland. Welsh and Gaelic is said to have some Basque elements.

Digitalseal
Monday, June 12th, 2006, 08:54 PM
here is a BBC article about it

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/1256894.stm

Here
Monday, June 12th, 2006, 10:44 PM
here is in BBC article about it

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/1256894.stm


Genes link Celts to Basques

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1255000/images/_1256894_basque_genetics2_300.jpg

The Welsh and Irish Celts have been found to be the genetic blood-brothers of Basques, scientists have revealed.
The gene patterns of the three races passed down through the male line are all "strikingly similar", researchers concluded.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1255000/images/_1256894_genetictree150.jpg
Ethnic links: Many races share common bonds


Basques can trace their roots back to the Stone Age and are one of Europe's most distinct people, fiercely proud of their ancestry and traditions.
The research adds to previous studies which have suggested a possible link between the Celts and Basques, dating back tens of thousands of years.
"The project started with our trying to assess whether the Vikings made an important genetic contribution to the population of Orkney," Professor David Goldstein of University College London (UCL) told BBC News.
'Statistically indistinguishable'
He and his colleagues looked at Y-chromosomes, passed from father to son, of Celtic and Norwegian populations. They found them to be quite different.
"But we also noticed that there's something quite striking about the Celtic populations, and that is that there's not a lot of genetic variation on the Y-chromosome," he said.
To try to work out where the Celtic population originally came from, the team from UCL, the University of Oxford and the University of California at Davis also looked at Basques.
"On the Y-chromosome the Celtic populations turn out to be statistically indistinguishable from the Basques," Professor Goldstein said.
Pre-farming Europe
The comparison was made because Basques are thought by most experts to be very similar to the people who lived in Europe before the advent of farming.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1255000/images/_1256894_genetest150.jpg
Genetic tests have identified key gene groups


"We conclude that both of these populations are reflecting pre-farming Europe," he said.
Professor Goldstein's team looked at the genetic profiles of 88 individuals from Anglesey, North Wales, 146 from Ireland with Irish Gaelic surnames, and 50 Basques.
"We know of no other study that provides direct evidence of a close relationship in the paternal heritage of the Basque- and the Celtic-speaking populations of Britain," the team write in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
Viking TV
But it is still unclear whether the link is specific to the Celts and the Basques, or whether they are both simply the closest surviving relatives of the early population of Europe.
What is clear is that the Neolithic Celts took women from outside their community. When the scientists looked at female genetic patterns as well, they found evidence of genetic material from northern Europe.
This influence helped even out some of the genetic differences between the Celts and their Northern European neighbours.
The work was carried out in connection with a BBC television programme on the Vikings.

This would mean that Basques and Celts are the closest to the original Cro-magnon. Don't u think?

Klegutati
Tuesday, June 20th, 2006, 03:38 AM
When I stayed in Basque, for about a week, I realized to myself that I would try to solve this mystery on my own.. I looked at the people, and they looked less French, and Spanish.. they reminded me of the Irish and British folk and my family.. Most of them had small features, and light pigmentation. Their language actually reminded me of a sort of Gaelic, and I thought they were probably related... Sure enough, my DNA test came up with the results that I am R1b3, which are descendants of the Celts of mainland Europe, and in the end my DNA test proved that I am descendant of some dude in Northern Spain, or the Basque country.. lol
:thumbup

Klegutati
Tuesday, June 20th, 2006, 03:38 AM
When I stayed in Basque, for about a week, I realized to myself that I would try to solve this mystery on my own.. I looked at the people, and they looked less French, and Spanish.. they reminded me of the Irish and British folk and my family.. Most of them had small features, and light pigmentation. Their language actually reminded me of a sort of Gaelic, and I thought they were probably related... Sure enough, my DNA test came up with the results that I am R1b3, which are descendants of the Celts of mainland Europe, and in the end my DNA test proved that I am descendant of some dude in Northern Spain, or the Basque country.. lol:thumbup

Klegutati
Tuesday, June 20th, 2006, 03:38 AM
When I stayed in Basque, for about a week, I realized to myself that I would try to solve this mystery on my own.. I looked at the people, and they looked less French, and Spanish.. they reminded me of the Irish and British folk and my family.. Most of them had small features, and light pigmentation. Their language actually reminded me of a sort of Gaelic, and I thought they were probably related... Sure enough, my DNA test came up with the results that I am R1b3, which are descendants of the Celts of mainland Europe, and in the end my DNA test proved that I am descendant of some dude in Northern Spain, or the Basque country.. lol:thumbup

Klegutati
Tuesday, June 20th, 2006, 03:39 AM
When I stayed in Basque, for about a week, I realized to myself that I would try to solve this mystery on my own.. I looked at the people, and they looked less French, and Spanish.. they reminded me of the Irish and British folk and my family.. Most of them had small features, and light pigmentation. Their language actually reminded me of a sort of Gaelic, and I thought they were probably related... Sure enough, my DNA test came up with the results that I am R1b3, which are descendants of the Celts of mainland Europe, and in the end my DNA test proved that I am descendant of some dude in Northern Spain, or the Basque country.. lol:thumbup

BasqueDirndl
Wednesday, June 21st, 2006, 06:10 AM
A basque from my race book.
What are the names of the race books you have, so I can try to order them on amazon or something. My ex had a great sub-race discription in one of his encyclopedias, but I can't find that anywhere. I'm new here, and I am of most basque genes.

BasqueDirndl
Wednesday, June 21st, 2006, 06:20 AM
These kids don't look squqre faced to me. Some on this thread say Basques are square faced. I don't understand.
Square shape face isn't anything bad. I'm of basque descent and my I have very basque physical attributes. Square forehead, big ears (but not the ones that stick out), short frame, light skin, hair, and eyes.

McCauley
Monday, June 26th, 2006, 05:24 AM
I think I may resemble a Basque somewhat through my Welsh genes, I feel genetically similar just comparing my brother mother and I to the pictures of traditional Basque. Just an anecdote for what it's worth.

Chlodovech
Thursday, August 3rd, 2006, 12:27 AM
Genetics helps scientists determine Basque origins


http://www.raceandhistory.com/worldhotspots/images/basque.gif


Genetics is helping researchers trace the migration of the Basque people, a culture that originated in East Africa tens of thousands of years ago. By first tracking the female gene back 150,000 years to East Africa, scientists then followed the male Y chromosome to determine human whereabouts.

As Joxe Mallea-Olaetxe, adjunct professor for the Center for Basque Studies at the University of Nexada, Reno (USA), explained at a recent presentation at Northeastern Nevada Museum as part of the National Basque Festival in Elko, "The Basque came out of East Africa 50,000 or so years ago and passed through the Middle East."

This explains why some Middle Eastern cities have names that could be Basque in origin, like Ur, Uruk, and Mari, which is the name of a Basque goddess.

According to Mallea-Olaetxe, linguists have long suspected such an idea since an old—now dead—language from Central Asia, Burushaski, "looks suspiciously like Basque". Genetic research is proving the linguists right.

After inhabiting Central Asia for about 10,000 years, Basque ancestors migrated to both the Americas and Western Europe, where they settled—and still live—in France and Spain. The cave paintings in southern France and northern Spain were likely painted by Basque ancestors 10,000 to 30,000 years ago, says Mallea-Olaetxe, which "fits perfectly" the timeline of their migration.

Since DNA research has also shown that the Celtic people’s genes are almost identical to the Basque’s, it is believed they may have migrated together to Western Europe 30,000 years ago.

Mallea-Olaetxe states that genetic research into Basque origins has been ongoing over the past decade or so; however, their conclusions have only been made public recently.

Source (http://www.raceandhistory.com/worldhotspots/basque.htm)

cribraria
Tuesday, December 9th, 2008, 02:55 AM
To understand European history fully, one needs to consider the seafaring capabilities of people in the Bronze Age. We are not talking about a few scattered tribes using boats to catch a few fish, we are talking about a highly organized society that depended on trans oceanic sea trade for commodities. In other words a previous age of global sea trade, including trans Atlantic seatrade.
The most advanced metallurgical skills also appear in coastal sites of Europe. To me it is clear that sea trade was extremely important. Therefore it is no surprise that places with legends/history of the Sea Kings turn out to be genetically related. Hence the genetic connection between people of Ireland, Wales, Brittany and Basque country.
Of these groups of Sea Kings, there were the Celtic Sea Kings, the Phoenicians (who arose after the demise of the Minoan civilization), the Berbers, the Gaunches, the Managaura of Central America, the Paracas mummies, the red heads of Easter Island and even the Lapita potters of Melanesia. Many of these groups had wide mandibles and small teeth - especially the Lapita potters and Maori who claim to be descended from Charrapa (Long Eared Red Heads) people of Easter Island.
There are even people in Sicily and Sardinia who sport the wide mandible - their placement on islands in the Mediterranean is no surprise - remnants of an ancient seafaring society. Native Americans of the Hokan language group are also believed by many to be remnants of this ancient seafaring culture.
What I would like to explore, is an even more ancient connection of Europe to America. According to Native Americans from Dakota, the "Age of the Red Heads" ended in America 6,000 years ago - to be replaced by the "Age of the Black haired people" - quite possibly after a major natural calamity. Between 6 and 8,000 years ago the Bahama Banks - once a very significant island well placed for trans Atlantic Sea trade went underwater. Over 60 sites of wharves, wall bases and floors have been found at various times under the shifting sands. Such remnants suggest that the island was leveled by tsunami. This is the time of arrival of people who carved spirals into rocks on the Dingle peninsular of Ireland, suggesting an exodus of red heads from America at this time. The spiral is a motif of the Serpent warriors (the people who St Patrick expelled) - that is the red heads from America.
Standing stones, Dolmens, Menatols and Menhirs as well as Ogham script and serpent mounds similar to ones in England strongly suggest the people on either side of the Atlantic were once the same. So until this bigger picture of European history is accepted, the truth will never be known. Rhesus negative of these people is an important reason why only small pockets of these people survive today.