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View Full Version : Westmediterranid and Eastmediterranid are very distinct types



Digitalseal
Sunday, May 28th, 2006, 04:40 AM
Westmediterranid = Iberid and Italic among other subtypes

Eastmediterranid = Orientalid/Arabid.

I do not agree on grouping them together, like many anthropologists have done, like Coon with his "Mediterranean proper" category.

They do not seem to have much physically in common, for example: the Westmediterranid nose is straight or rather straight, while the Eastmediterranid nose is the opposite from straight, there are several facial features that they do not share.

And genetically the Westmediterrianids fall under the European/Indo-European genetic cluster and the Eastmediterranid type falls under the Near eastern/Afro-Asiatic cluster, the genetic distances are too great.

So, the differences between these races are too great to be grouped together. They are not the same race in any way.

Glenlivet
Sunday, May 28th, 2006, 05:06 PM
Earnest Hooton on the Mediterranean Subrace

http://dienekes.angeltowns.net/texts/hootonmed/

The "Classic Mediterranean" (which I think is the same as the gracile Mediterranid or Insular type, of other works), is merely a reduced derivative, according to Hooton.

Agrippa
Sunday, May 28th, 2006, 05:27 PM
Westmediterranid = Iberid and Italic among other subtypes

Eastmediterranid = Orientalid/Arabid.

There are three basic Mediterranid branches, West-, South and Eastmediterranid. Probably a Northern branch could be added, but thats not in general use.
However, Westmediterranid = Gracil- and Atlantomediterranid.
Eastmediterranid = Pontid, "Cappadocian"/influences visible in Anadolids and probably Iranid - that are the groups many consider Eastmediterranid, everything else is heavily disputed.

Arabid is not generally considered Eastmediterranid if at all.


I do not agree on grouping them together, like many anthropologists have done, like Coon with his "Mediterranean proper" category.

Coon called all "sapiens" (so all non-Cromagnoid) Europids either "Mediterranean or descendents of Mediterraneans" with all Southern Europids being "Mediterranean", so forget about him if its about Southern Europids.


They do not seem to have much physically in common, for example: the Westmediterranid nose is straight or rather straight, while the Eastmediterranid nose is the opposite from straight, there are several facial features that they do not share.

Thats a comparison of Mediterranid (both West and East) with Orientalid (Iranid and Arabid) rather than anything else.


And genetically the Westmediterrianids fall under the European/Indo-European genetic cluster and the Eastmediterranid type falls under the Near eastern/Afro-Asiatic cluster, the genetic distances are too great.

Yes, even for Eastmediterranids which fall into the true Mediterranid racial category seem to have stronger other influences whereas most Westmediterranids are largely of older European stocks.

In most systems Orientalid and Indid is not considered being Mediterranid, at best only "Mediterranean in the wider sense" or Mediterranoid. Besides Coon there are not too much which argue for such a definition of "Mediterranean", especially if looking at the capable European anthropologists.

a. b.
Monday, May 29th, 2006, 09:21 AM
the Eastmediterranid type falls under the Near eastern/Afro-Asiatic clusterDo you mean Pontids? Near Eastern, I can accept. Various caucasian influences, for instance Dinarid or Armenid, are present, but there's nothing Afro in Pontid. What do you base this on?

Agrippa
Monday, May 29th, 2006, 12:53 PM
Do you mean Pontids? Near Eastern, I can accept. Various caucasian influences, for instance Dinarid or Armenid, are present, but there's nothing Afro in Pontid. What do you base this on?

Thats right, nothing Afro about Pontid, but you should also recognise that Afro-Asiatic refers to Semito-Hamitic languages and not Negroid, Subsaharan ancestry necessarily.

Digitalseal
Monday, May 29th, 2006, 01:14 PM
Do you mean Pontids? Near Eastern, I can accept. Various caucasian influences, for instance Dinarid or Armenid, are present, but there's nothing Afro in Pontid. What do you base this on?

Afroasiatic
Afro = Northern African
Asiatic = South West Asia

A large family of languages spoken in northern Africa and southwest Asia, comprising the Semitic, Chadic, Cushitic, Berber, Omotic, and ancient Egyptian languages; formerly known as Hamito-Semitic.

This name is often used to refer to these native speakers, and it just includes the extreme Eastmediterranid peoples, not the Southeastern Euro people.

Digitalseal
Monday, May 29th, 2006, 01:44 PM
I would like to add, when i wrote "Eastmediterranid" i only ment The Orientalid and Iranid Types, i was not including Southeastern Europeans.

Glenlivet
Monday, May 29th, 2006, 01:48 PM
Pontids are found in the northern part of the Fertile crescent, as well as in Southeastern Europe. There is even a weak Pontid element in Latvia and Lithuania, according to Lundman.


I would like to add, when i wrote "Eastmediterranid" i only ment The Orientalid and Iranid Types, i was not including Southeastern Europeans.

Agrippa
Monday, May 29th, 2006, 02:15 PM
Pontids are found in the northern part of the Fertile crescent, as well as in Southeastern Europe.

Compare with this generalised map:
http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=60548&d=1148908358
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=290790#post290790


There is even a weark Pontid element in Latvia and Lithuania, according to Lundman.

Yes, I even saw Balts in which I thought of Atlanto-Pontid elements myself.

Klegutati
Thursday, August 17th, 2006, 07:11 PM
I have to admit.. Pontids are in the area of great influences from Near-Eastern cultures like Assyrians and such, is it possible for them to have an effect on the Pontid subrace?:|

Pro-Alpine
Friday, August 18th, 2006, 01:27 AM
Aren't East-mediterranids just South-eastern European Mediterranids?

a. b.
Friday, August 18th, 2006, 03:01 PM
Aren't East-mediterranids just South-eastern European Mediterranids?No. I suggest that you read the first page of this thread.

Rafael
Monday, October 16th, 2006, 02:28 AM
There is mixture between mediterranids and orientalids in all mediterranean countries but it is not very old and the original mediterranid race which was there long before arabs or turks conquered parts of southern europe is still in clear majority except for in certain areas where orientals are or obvious oriental mixture is more common.

So, both yes and no. Mediterraneans are not orientalid like arabs or iranians but some people in both western and eastern mediterranean countries share racial characteristics with orientalids, thing is, these mixed people are not pure or real mediterranids and no matter their cultural accomplishments as a football player, author or movie actor it is wrong to classify them as meds since they are not and everyone with common sense can see it.

Uwe Jens Lornsen
Tuesday, June 5th, 2018, 09:13 PM
This map I had found , classifies the East Mediterranid as Northern Black Sea
(Southern Third of Ukraine, Southern Russia, Romania, Bulgaria)

and the West Mediterranid as North Western Mediterranean Sea
(Spain, Portugal, Southern Half of Italy, French Mediterranean Coast)

with an extraordinary hotspot as Wales on the British Island.


@schrodinger-excidium deviantart.com
https://schrodinger-excidium.deviantart.com/art/Mediterranean-race-Map-Anthropology-Map-509281197

https://orig00.deviantart.net/a7c1/f/2015/024/5/d/mediterranean_race_map___anthropology_ma p_by_schrodinger_excidium-d8f7nvx.png