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Übersoldat
Saturday, November 8th, 2003, 07:05 PM
http://romycool.virtualave.net/homepage/image/heri/boban.jpg
Zvonimir Boban

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/174882.jpg
Robert Prosinecki

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/179058.jpg
Jurica Vranjes

http://www.dinamo-zagreb.net/igraci/slikeigraca/mikic.jpg
Mihael Mikic

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1180000/images/_1180583_biscan150.jpg
Igor Biscan

http://www.mamic-sport.hr/Mm/Balaban_Bosko_3.jpg
Bosko Balaban

http://www.dinamo-zagreb.net/igraci/slikeigraca/zahora.jpg
Dario Zahora

http://www.dinamo-zagreb.net/igraci/slikeigraca/turina.jpg
Ivan Turina

http://www.dinamo-zagreb.net/igraci/slikeigraca/krznar.jpg
Damir Krznar

http://www.nogomet.com/torcida/slike/igraci/2000-2001/HRVOJE_VUKOVIC.jpg
Hrvoje Vukovic

http://www.nogomet.com/torcida/slike/igraci/2000-2001/ANTE_MISE.jpg
Ante Miše

http://nogomet.com/torcida/slike/igraci/Bilic_Slaven_001.jpg
Slaven Bilic

http://nogomet.com/torcida/slike/igraci/Grdic_Anthony_001.jpg
Antony Grdic

http://nogomet.com/torcida/slike/igraci/Ratkovic_Zoran_001.jpg
Ratkovic Zoran

Glenlivet
Saturday, November 8th, 2003, 08:27 PM
They all look like normal Europeans except Antony Grdic. Is he fully Croatian?

Robert Prosinecki is very blond and Nordid. Looks like a tough guy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1980000/images/_1984518_pros300.jpg

http://sport.hrt.hr/htvsport/nogomet/sp2002/slike/reprezentativci/prosinecki.jpg

http://www.abc.net.au/worldcup2002/img/20020510robert.jpg

http://www.supergol.com.mx/images/prosinecki.jpg

Awar
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 01:37 AM
I was contemplating about posting a thread with sportists from the good ol' S&M, when I saw this thread. Oh well, it seems me and Zvaci share the same brain :D :P

http://arhiva.glas-javnosti.co.yu/arhiva/1999/06/18/images/rukomet.jpg

Awar
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 01:39 AM
I think that Prosinecki is actually Slovenian, not a Croat...right?

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 01:47 AM
Some more Croatian players:

World Cup 2002 team:
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/02/en/t/t/pl/179048/index.html (click on a name in the "Squad" menu on the right)

World Cup 1998 team:
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Field/2146/players.htm

Glenlivet
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 01:54 AM
Niko Kovac got a strong Turanid strain :-O.

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/155696.jpg

Do you think the nose is natural or did he hit it somewhere?



Some more Croatian players:

World Cup 2002 team:
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/02/en/t/t/pl/179048/index.html (click on a name in the "Squad" menu on the right)

World Cup 1998 team:
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Field/2146/players.htm

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 01:56 AM
I think that Prosinecki is actually Slovenian, not a Croat...right?

That is news to me. He played in Slovenia recently (or still does), but other than that I do not know about any Slovenian roots of his.

Glenlivet
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 01:58 AM
Was he not born in Germany? Is he fully Croat?



That is news to me. He played in Slovenia recently (or still does), but other than that I do not know about any Slovenian roots of his.

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 02:00 AM
Niko Kovac got a strong Turanid strain :-O.

He looks a bit out of place, yes, but Turanid? He has a look that is common in Turkey, but with Turanid I usually associate something else (like the appearance of some Hungarians). I guess his "odd" traits can not be explained by Turanid alone.

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 02:02 AM
Was he not born in Germany? Is he fully Croat?

I noticed that, too. If he were part German, he would play for Germany, I assume. His look is common in Croatia.

Glenlivet
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 02:05 AM
I agree. Can you tell me from which types the other traits come from? Especially the ones you refered to as "odd" traits.

Perhaps, although Turanid is very rare in Hungary. Though I actually saw one young Turanid man today, with very prominent cheekbones.




He looks a bit out of place, yes, but Turanid? He has a look that is common in Turkey, but with Turanid I usually associate something else (like the appearance of some Hungarians). I guess his "odd" traits can not be explained by Turanid alone.

Awar
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 02:05 AM
Oh Thanks Triglav! :giggle It seems Zvaci forgot about some of these Croatians( I wonder why? :-O ):

Stipe Pletikosa
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/179048.jpg

Anthony Seric ( looks quite different here :D)
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/170754.jpg

Josip Simunic
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/188511.jpg

Stjepan Tomas
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/170753.jpg

Milan Rapaic
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/164496.jpg

Boris Zivkovic :rofl
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/170829.jpg

Legendary DAVOR SUKER
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/155711.jpg

Niko Kovac
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/155696.jpg

Tomislav Butina
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/184419.jpg

Daniel Saric
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/159540.jpg

Robert Jarni
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/174637.jpg

Zvonimir Soldo
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/155708.jpg

Goran Vlaovic
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/155713.jpg

Bosko Balaban
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/179051.jpg

Vasilj Vladimir
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/170752.jpg

Robert Kovac
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/179049.jpg

Mario Stanic
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/159172.jpg

Alen Boksic
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/155689.jpg

Now I'm 100% Sure in what Zvaci said earlier. Croatians really are descendants of Ostrogoths.

Glenlivet
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 02:09 AM
Are you serious or sarcastic?





Now I'm 100% Sure in what Zvaci said earlier. Croatians really are descendants of Ostrogoths.

Awar
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 02:11 AM
You can see how Croatians are TOTALLY different from Serbs. It's like comparing Ostrogoths and Bushmen ;)

The only thing about these Croatian players is that they're more 'Ostro' than 'Goths' if you catch my drift :D

@Triglav:

I am so not a soccer-fan. I heard that about Prosinecki somewhere, I'm not sure where and when. Don't quote me on Prosinecki being Slovenian. :)

Glenlivet
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 02:11 AM
How do you guys classify Boris Zivkovic? It is beyond me how one can classify him.

http://www.uefa.com/ImagesContent/Competition/Players/129X194/30948.jpg

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 02:18 AM
I agree. Can you tell me from which types the other traits come from? Especially the ones you refered to as "odd" traits.

I am sorry to say that I can not pinpoint the sub-racial origin of his traits. It's primarily the nose and the pigmentation to which I referred as "odd". Could Armenoid play a part in it?


Perhaps, although Turanid is very rare in Hungary. Though I actually saw one young Turanid man today, with very prominent cheekbones.

Turanid is rare, but present. I know about 10 out of a few hundred (or thousand) Turanid Hungarians who live in Slovenia.

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 02:23 AM
You can see how Croatians are TOTALLY different from Serbs. It's like comparing Ostrogoths and Bushmen ;)

The only thing about these Croatian players is that they're more 'Ostro' than 'Goths' if you catch my drift :D

If this is to become one of your petty local skirmishes again...

You actually wrote quite a good comment on this issue in the Slavic Vortex, so I thought these disputes were settled.

----
And please don't quote me on fomenting this contention:


Oh Thanks Triglav! It seems Zvaci forgot about some of these Croatians( I wonder why? ):

Glenlivet
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 02:24 AM
That is what I thought too, Armenoid with Turanid. The pigmentation is not as "odd" our out of place as the features. On the other hand I cannot say what is out of place for that region. Maybe he is more common than I think.

I have also seen around 10 Hungarians whom I have been willing to classify as Turanid.



I am sorry to say that I can not pinpoint the sub-racial origin of his traits. It's primarily the nose and the pigmentation to which I referred as "odd". Could Armenoid play a part in it?



Turanid is rare, but present. I know about 10 out of a few hundred (or thousand) Turanid Hungarians who live in Slovenia.

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 02:37 AM
It it just me who sees a similarity here? This is a guess, but Zivkovic might represent a gradation from the European Borreby type to these "Borreby-like" UP types in Northern Africa, which does not rule out any other sub-racial elements in him.

http://www.uefa.com/ImagesContent/Competition/Players/129X194/30948.jpg


A highland Beni Urriaghel Riffian; short-statured, laterally built,
rufous; with a snub nose and short face; a reduced mesocephalic Afalou type:
http://www.legioneuropa.org/Racediv/CSCoon/Images/p10f5.gif


An old Riffian warrior, one of the Ulad Abd el Mumen clan in the
Vale of Iherrushen, Gzennaya. Although indistinguishable metrically from many tall:
Mediterraneans, this individual possesses morphological features in the region of the eyes,
nose, mouth, and jaw, which are clearly of Afalou inspiration, and which give him an
"Irish" look.
http://www.legioneuropa.org/Racediv/CSCoon/Images/p10f7.gif





How do you guys classify Boris Zivkovic? It is beyond me how one can classify him.

http://www.uefa.com/ImagesContent/Competition/Players/129X194/30948.jpg

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 02:42 AM
Kovac's pigmentation is too dark to be commonplace. I do not know where the look of individuals like Zivkovic and Kovac originates from, but I have seen such individuals in Croatia. Their surnames are Slavic. Perhaps Zvaci could help us here.


That is what I thought too, Armenoid with Turanid. The pigmentation is not as "odd" our out of place as the features. On the other hand I cannot say what is out of place for that region. Maybe he is more common than I think.

Glenlivet
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 02:42 AM
Ancient Negroid strains?

"Ulad Abd el Mumen clan". What is Coon talking about? "Irish" look, give me a break. Was he a realist? I can only laugh about that when I can see the obvious Negroid traits in that man.



It it just me who sees a similarity here? This is a guess, but Zivkovic might represent a gradation from the European Borreby type to these "Borreby-like" UP types in Northern Africa, which does not rule out any other sub-racial elements in him.

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 02:48 AM
Ancient Negroid strains?

Negroid? Is that what you see in these Northern Africans?
I would definitely rule out a Negroid strain of any ancient form in Zivkovic. I was rather referring to his facial morphology(although more gracile) and pointed to the "non-Negroid" strains in these Africans.

After all, Zivkovic's pigmentation is not as "odd" as Kovac's which you didn't find unusual.

Awar
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 02:51 AM
Would you say that he's some sort of UP which today doesn't exist in any relatively pure form?

Glenlivet
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 02:52 AM
Yes, I see some Negroid, and not only because of the pigmentation.

I know what you were refering to. I saw the resemblance too.



Negroid? Is that what you see in these Northern Africans?
I would definitely rule out a Negroid strain of any ancient form in Zivkovic. I was rather referring to his facial morphology(although more gracile) and pointed to the "non-Negroid" strains in these Africans.

After all, Zivkovic's pigmentation is not as "odd" as Kovac's which you didn't find unusual.

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 03:08 AM
"Irish" look, give me a break. Was he a realist? I can only laugh about that when I can see the obvious Negroid traits in that man.

:shrug I can not help but agree with you on that cynical remark.

Coon liked to point out exceptions and enthused about breaking fresh ground by drawing parallels between European types and non-European types that had some ancient proto-European strain.

I don't think his statement should be taken literally. He certainly wanted to imply that there must be some European look to this person's appearance.

What about this boy from the same chapter and Coon's comment? Looking at individuals like Patrik Andersson (the football player) I tend not to disagree. Btw., how would you classify Andersson (is there a Tydal look about him)?

A very blond youth from the Senhajan tribe of Ktama, the most
isolated spot in northern Morocco. Facially he resembles a southern Swede; closely
similar individuals have been observed in the Canary Islands. The dimensions of his
head are small, however; he must be regarded as a mesocephalic, cranially reduced
type similar to the Irishman on plate 9, Fig. 6.


http://www.legioneuropa.org/Racediv/CSCoon/Images/p10f4.gif


What about this gentleman? From the picture he really looks like and European to me.

A larger-headed, mesocephalic example of the same type, compa-
rable in features to Northwest Europeans with Borreby blood; like the first example and
wholly unlike the Nordic and Mediterranean strains in the Rif, this individual is lateral
in constitutional type; heavy boned, and heavily muscled. This man is a fkih (schoo-
master and leader of the mosque) in the Riffian tribe of Bern Ulishk.
http://www.legioneuropa.org/Racediv/CSCoon/Images/p10f2.gif

Übersoldat
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 03:12 AM
They all look like normal Europeans except Antony Grdic. Is he fully Croatian?

Anthony is from emigration. Almost half of Croatians live in USA, Canada, South America, Australia and South Africa. Its possible he is from mixed marriage - especially if he is the third generation. Many people are returning to fatherland after the breakdown of Yugoslavia and liberation.


Robert Prosinecki is very blond and Nordid. Looks like a tough guy.

Yes he is a fighter and one of our best players ever. :) However the 'toughest' person here is the first one (Zvonimir Boban). I have a videotape of him jumping in the air and punching armed Yugo-communist special policeman in the throat with his knee during disorders 1989./90. His movements was spectacular, and it was very brave thing to do during old days.

Übersoldat
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 03:15 AM
I think that Prosinecki is actually Slovenian, not a Croat...right?

Wrong, he is 100% Croatian.

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 03:25 AM
I guess this is what you were thinking about:

http://www.legioneuropa.org/Racediv/CSCoon/Images/p10f7.gif

http://letterman.iscool.com/october/10-9a.jpg

It doesn't take an expert...

Übersoldat
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 03:52 AM
You can see how Croatians are TOTALLY different from Serbs. It's like comparing Ostrogoths and Bushmen ;)
:)

I can recognise a Serb or Motenegrin almost immidiatelly in circa 80% of cases. The difference is obvious.
By looking entire Serbian representation I could not find one lighter person - just swarthy people with curly hair:

Serbian Representation: http://users.cg.yu/gorani/kos.sastav.htm

http://www.fsrs.org/stevic.jpg
Miroslav Stevic

http://users.cg.yu/gorani/slike/Predrag-Stojakovic.jpg
Predrag Stojko

http://users.cg.yu/gorani/slike/Dusan-Vukcevic.jpg
Dušan Vukčević

http://users.cg.yu/gorani/slike/Dejan-Koturovic.jpg
Dejan Koturović

http://users.cg.yu/gorani/slike/Marko-Jaric.jpg
Marko Jarić

and so on...

Awar
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 03:56 AM
I told you we're Bushmen :D

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 04:07 AM
I can recognise a Serb or Motenegrin almost immidiatelly in circa 80% of cases. The difference is obvious.
By looking entire Serbian representation I could not find one lighter person - just swarthy people with curly hair:

[B]Serbian Representation

Aren't these basketball players?

Übersoldat
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 04:09 AM
How do you guys classify Boris Zivkovic? It is beyond me how one can classify him.

http://www.uefa.com/ImagesContent/Competition/Players/129X194/30948.jpg

He could be Gypsie, this last name is commune amongst Gypsies here.

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 04:12 AM
He could be Gypsie, this last name is commune amongst Gypsies here.

Yes, I thought so, too. Strange, in Slovenia, "Kovac" is never a Gypsy surname.

Übersoldat
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 04:13 AM
I told you we're Bushmen :D

Don't be to hard on your self, it could be worse, Serbs still look a bit more European than Greeks. ;)

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 04:14 AM
Oh, sorry, I was jumping to conclusions. How about Kovac then?

I need some rest..

Übersoldat
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 04:17 AM
Yes, I thought so, too. Strange, in Slovenia, "Kovac" is never a Gypsy surname.


The name Kovac (Kovacz) is Hungarian, and its very broad. I have friend with this last name and he look completely different from this guy.

Prodigal Son
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 04:20 AM
Compare to Russian, Belarussian and Ukrainian members of Spartak. Only about 40% of the total are Russians, Belarussians and Ukrainians (there are more Ukrainians than Russians), a few are Yugoslavs, and the rest darkies. Unbelievable ;( The Croat looks quite Nordic to me...

http://rus.spartak.com/fotos/team_koncevoy.jpg

http://rus.spartak.com/fotos/10_Pavluchenko.jpg

http://rus.spartak.com/fotos/team_danya.jpg

http://rus.spartak.com/fotos/41_Torbinskiy.jpg

http://rus.spartak.com/fotos/33_Demenko.jpg

http://rus.spartak.com/fotos/team_terekhin.jpg

http://rus.spartak.com/fotos/26_Sheshukov.jpg

http://rus.spartak.com/fotos/25_Pavlenko.jpg

http://rus.spartak.com/fotos/14_Kalinichenko.jpg

http://rus.spartak.com/fotos/09_Titov.jpg

http://rus.spartak.com/fotos/team_hrman.jpg (Croat)

http://rus.spartak.com/fotos/team_baranov.jpg

http://rus.spartak.com/fotos/team_belozerov.jpg

http://rus.spartak.com/fotos/18_Parfenov.jpg

http://rus.spartak.com/fotos/05_Vaschuk.JPG

http://rus.spartak.com/fotos/02_Kovtun.JPG

http://rus.spartak.com/fotos/46_Zuev.jpg

http://rus.spartak.com/fotos/team_kovalevsky.jpg (Pole)

http://rus.spartak.com/fotos/12_Alekseev.jpg

Prodigal Son
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 04:27 AM
According to what I've read, Croatians are the lightest Yugoslavian group, next to the Slovenes. This is also in line with my personal experience. I would say that the players Zavci posted are mostly a mix of Dinaric, Alpine, and West Baltic elements, with Mediterranean and Nordic admixture.

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 04:27 AM
The name Kovac (Kovacz) is Hungarian, and its very broad. I have friend with this last name and he look completely different from this guy.

I don't know what "kovac" means in your language, but in Slovenian it means "smith". The Hungarians have adopted this word like more than thousand other Slavic expressions (e.g. "mészar" for "butcher", which is derived from the Slavic "mesar" from "meso" = "meat", whereas in Hungarian "meat" is "hus"). "Kovac" is derived from "kovati" = "to forge".

I know both Hungarians and Slovenes by this surname ("Smith" with its translated variants is the most frequent surname in the world ), but yes, he could be originally from Hungary and most probably a Hungarian Gypsy.

Übersoldat
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 04:29 AM
Aren't these basketball players?

Good point, I found them under the word 'partizan' in google without realizing Serbia has also the basketball club with this name.

Here are Serbian football players of Partizan club:
http://www.partizan.co.yu/tim.php?Jezik=en

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 04:33 AM
According to what I've read, Croatians are the lightest Yugoslavian group, next to the Slovenes.

You mean the Slovenes are the lightest. Without wanting to be biased, I am quite sure about this.

Übersoldat
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 04:35 AM
I don't know what "kovac" means in your language, but in Slovenian it means "smith". The Hungarians have adopted this word like more than thousand other Slavic expressions (e.g. "mészar" for "butcher", which is derived from the Slavic "mesar" from "meso" = "meat", whereas in Hungarian "meat" is "hus"). "Kovac" is derived from "kovati" = "to forge".

I know both Hungarians and Slovenes by this surname ("Smith" with its translated variants is the most frequent surname in the world ), but yes, he could be originally from Hungary and most probably a Hungarian Gypsy.

Yes, Kovač = Smith on Croatian also. Its very often last name amongst different ethnics: Serbs, Croats, Slovenes, Hungarians ect. Its not possible to conclude origins from it.

Prodigal Son
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 04:36 AM
You mean the Slovenes are the lightest. Without wanting to be biased, I am quite sure about this.


That's exactly what I mean. Croats are lightest next to the Slovenes, i.e. Slovenes are lightest next to no one. Slovenes are without a doubt of predominantly Nordeuropid stock. Croats seem to be a Central/Northern European mix.

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 04:42 AM
That's exactly what I mean. Croats are lightest next to the Slovenes, i.e. Slovenes are lightest next to no one.

That's what I understood, too, but I wanted to rule out any possible misunderstanding.


Slovenes are without a doubt of predominantly Nordeuropid stock.

Certainly in terms of pigmentation. Morphologically, I think we represent Central Europe as well as almost nobody else.

Awar
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 04:47 AM
So, again, these are the players from the Croatian representation. They don't look too blonde to me.

Stipe Pletikosa
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/179048.jpg

Anthony Seric ( looks quite different here :D)
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/170754.jpg

Josip Simunic
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/188511.jpg

Stjepan Tomas
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/170753.jpg

Milan Rapaic
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/164496.jpg

Boris Zivkovic :rofl
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/170829.jpg

Legendary DAVOR SUKER
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/155711.jpg

Niko Kovac
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/155696.jpg

Tomislav Butina
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/184419.jpg

Daniel Saric
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/159540.jpg

Robert Jarni
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/174637.jpg

Zvonimir Soldo
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/155708.jpg

Goran Vlaovic
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/155713.jpg

Bosko Balaban
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/179051.jpg

Vasilj Vladimir
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/170752.jpg

Robert Kovac
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/179049.jpg

Mario Stanic
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/159172.jpg

Alen Boksic
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/155689.jpg

In fact, they look like ordinary people from anywhere in the Balkans ( except Slovenia or Greece ). This goes to say that Croatians aren't much different from Serbs, no matter what Zvaci dreams about.

If you didn't know these men are Croatians, you could say they are from Romania, or Bulgaria, or even the much-hated Serbia ( no one hates us like Croats, Muslims, USA establishment and Jews like Madeleine Albright :D Bad company to be in :wave)

Prodigal Son
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 04:51 AM
Certainly in terms of pigmentation. Morphologically, I think we represent Central Europe as well as almost nobody else.

Most Northern Europeans are really not much different from Central Europeans morphologically either (Borreibies and Baltics come to mind). The defining feature of Nordeuropids is their blondism. The very high rate of pure eye blondism is one indication that the racial composition of that country is predominantly Nordeuropid. Can you post some pictures of Slovene players?

Übersoldat
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 04:53 AM
Certainly in terms of pigmentation. Morphologically, I think we represent Central Europe as well as almost nobody else.

I certainly agree with this, since Slovenes is isolated in Alps and totally surrounded only by central European nations: Austria, Hungaria, Croatia and North Italy. However the identical race is characteristic for our north also (Zagorje region-bordering with Slovenia).

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 04:54 AM
In fact, they look like ordinary people from anywhere in the Balkans ( except Slovenia or Greece ).

Yes, that is quite right. In the course of time, one develops a keen eye that can tell a Croatian, Serb, etc. from a native in the streets by a quick glance, even if they are of a subtype that is common here as well.

Edit: What you are referring to are actually speakers of the Serbian/Croatian language (call it what you will) in the Balkans.

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 05:01 AM
I certainly agree with this, since Slovenes is isolated in Alps

That is not quite correct ;).


and totally surrounded only by central European nations: Austria, Hungaria, Croatia and North Italy. However the identical race is characteristic for our north also (Zagorje region-bordering with Slovenia).

Exactly. Northern Croatia, especially Zagorje, is almost identical with Slovenia (apart from the recent migrations within Croatia). That is what I have always maintained. This region, too, has nothing to do with the Alps ;).

Primoz Trubar, the first Slovenian writer and a reformationist, referred to the Northern Croatians as Slovenes. Not taking his words as gospel, there is certainly a strong connection (linguistically as well).

Vojvoda
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 05:04 AM
Wrong, he is 100% Croatian.

His mother is Serbian from Sumadija.

http://www.geocities.com/cdnsuk/thedawson.html

Here it states that his father is Serbian,a mistake.

Awar
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 05:06 AM
People who look like Slovenians are rare in Serbia. The only Slovenian-looking Croats live in Zagorje.

Herzegovian Croats are indistinguishable from Montenegrins ( MN's are a bit taller and larger ), Slavonian Croats look like Serbs from Vojvodina etc.
We all have our regions where one type is more predominant.

Funny, but I know just one guy who is of Greek descent. His surname is a slavicizes greek surname, and they have some special religious habits different from Serbs. Other than that, this guy is very Nordid, tall, slender with blonde hair and beard.

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 05:06 AM
Can you post some pictures of Slovene players?

I certainly can not. Less than 30% of all the players are Slovene, and many of them are mixed and have either Slovene or foreign surnames

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 05:09 AM
His mother is Serbian from Sumadija.

Providenje, well met ;). I was going to ask you anyway where "Sumadija" is. I am fervently listening to a song called "Sumadijsko kolo" lately :).

Prodigal Son
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 05:13 AM
I certainly can not. Less than 30% of all the players are Slovene, and many of them are mixed and have either Slovene or foreign surnames


I understand. Can you post some random pictures of Slovenes from anywhere else? Unfortunately, I have never met any.

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 05:14 AM
I understand. Can you post some random pictures of Slovenes from anywhere else? Unfortunately, I have never met any.

Yes, I am already looking for them ;).

Posting pictures of crowds would be tricky. One never knows the origin

As for footballers, this one has a Slovenian name, but he looks rather atypical and more like a representative of some other ethnicity. It's more the pigmentation than the morphology, really, although his forehead and his nose are uncommon.

http://www.sloveniansoccer.com/reprezentanca/slike/portreti/knavs7.jpg

Vojvoda
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 05:24 AM
Providenje, well met ;). I was going to ask you anyway where "Sumadija" is. I am fervently listening to a song called "Sumadijsko kolo" lately :).

http://www.sumadinac.de/topola/karadjordje/sumadija%20u%20srbiji1.jpg

Übersoldat
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 05:27 AM
If you didn't know these men are Croatians, you could say they are from Romania, or Bulgaria, or even the much-hated Serbia

You have to admit this Serbs look different. There is no point to hide the racial truth only because political Jugoslav utopia.

You don't have so much of this types here, specially after 1995.

http://www.partizan.co.yu/images/tim/v_2003_04/10.jpg
Ljubinko Drulovic

http://www.partizan.co.yu/images/tim/v_2003_04/15.jpg
Malbaša Nikola

http://www.partizan.co.yu/images/tim/v_2003_04/2.jpg
Cirkovic Milivoje

Prodigal Son
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 05:36 AM
You have to admit this Serbs look different. There is no point to hide the racial truth only because political Jugoslav utopia.

You don't have so much of this types here, specially after 1995.

http://www.partizan.co.yu/images/tim/v_2003_04/10.jpg
Ljubinko Drulovic

http://www.partizan.co.yu/images/tim/v_2003_04/15.jpg
Malbaša Nikola

http://www.partizan.co.yu/images/tim/v_2003_04/2.jpg
Cirkovic Milivoje


All of the above individuals could pass as Frenchmen, but this isn't saying much :). However, types such as these cannot be very common in Serbia - the fact that they are blackhaired already disqualifies them from the distinction of being "typical Serbs" ( 8.2% of Serbs have black hair).

Übersoldat
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 05:38 AM
His mother is Serbian from Sumadija.

http://www.geocities.com/cdnsuk/thedawson.html

Here it states that his father is Serbian,a mistake.

The link you posted say his father is Serb, not mother, and this is utter BS. You don't have any Serbs with purely Zagorjean names. "Prosinecki" is kajkavian last name - how many Serbs talk kajkavian :scratch
LOL It would not be a surprise Red Star fans (Crvena Zvezda) did not made this up just to hide the fact their ace was a Croat.

Vojvoda
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 05:39 AM
You have to admit this Serbs look different. There is no point to hide the racial truth only because political Jugoslav utopia.

You don't have so much of this types here, specially after 1995.

http://www.partizan.co.yu/images/tim/v_2003_04/10.jpg
Ljubinko Drulovic

http://www.partizan.co.yu/images/tim/v_2003_04/15.jpg
Malba?a Nikola

http://www.partizan.co.yu/images/tim/v_2003_04/2.jpg
Cirkovic Milivoje

They are Bosnian Serbs and very talented footballers!:) Who cares what sub race they are.

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 05:39 AM
These are Slovene. I am not trying to imply that they are representative of the nation. I posted pics of footballers I know and some random pics from the local club of those who have Slovenian names.

http://www.nzs.si/2000/igralci/dejan%20nemec.jpg
http://www.snkmura.com/players/?player=10
http://www.snkmura.com/squad/first/zilavec03-04.jpg
http://www.snkmura.com/players/?player=35
http://www.snkmura.com/players/?player=4
http://www.snkmura.com/players/?player=9
http://www.snkmura.com/players/?player=3
http://www.snkmura.com/players/?player=27
http://www.snkmura.com/players/?player=2
http://www.snkmura.com/players/?player=16
http://www.snkmura.com/players/?player=20

Vojvoda
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 05:40 AM
The link you posted say his father is Serb, not mother, and this is utter BS. You don't have any Serbs with purely Zagorjean names. "Prosinecki" is kajkavian last name - how many Serbs talk kajkavian :scratch
LOL It would not be a surprise Red Star fans (Crvena Zvezda) did not made this up just to hide the fact their ace was a Croat.

I said it was a mistake.His mother is Serbian.Wasn't he threatened from fans not to play for Croatia?

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 05:43 AM
Sorry, that was my mistake. I should have hit the hay a long time ago.

http://www.nzs.si/2000/igralci/dejan%20nemec.jpg
http://www.snkmura.com/squad/first/mesaric03-04.jpg
http://www.snkmura.com/squad/first/zilavec03-04.jpg
http://www.snkmura.com/squad/first/zlatar03-04.jpg
http://www.snkmura.com/squad/first/cifer03-04.jpg
http://www.snkmura.com/squad/first/ernisa03-04.jpg
http://www.snkmura.com/squad/first/luk.jpg
http://www.snkmura.com/squad/first/mejac03-04.jpg
http://www.snkmura.com/squad/first/dominko.jpg
http://www.snkmura.com/squad/first/zilavec_sebastjan.jpg
http://www.snkmura.com/squad/first/ficko.jpg

Übersoldat
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 05:43 AM
They are Bosnian Serbs and very talented footballers!:) Who cares what sub race they are.

Obviously Awar. He insist on this 'one Serb-Croat subracial' type. Its a fact that regions in one country can be sub racially different. How much bigger difference is between nations!

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 05:46 AM
It's of no avail.

http://www.nzs.si/2000/igralci/dejan%20nemec.jpg
http://www.snkmura.com/players/?player=10
http://www.snkmura.com/squad/first/zilavec03-04.jpg
http://www.snkmura.com/players/?player=35
http://www.snkmura.com/players/?player=4
http://www.snkmura.com/players/?player=9
http://www.snkmura.com/players/?player=3
http://www.snkmura.com/players/?player=27
http://www.snkmura.com/players/?player=2
http://www.snkmura.com/players/?player=16
http://www.snkmura.com/players/?player=20

I think the sun makes their hair appear lighter.

Vojvoda
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 05:51 AM
Obviously Awar. He insist on this 'one Serb-Croat subracial' type. Its a fact that regions in one country can be sub racially different. How much bigger difference is between nations!

There is a point to people from regions looking "different".BUT, the blondest and most beautiful Baltid Croatian girl I have met was from Dalmacija(predominately Med?) Apparently her family have been there for generations.

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 05:58 AM
There is a point to people from regions looking "different".BUT, the blondest and most beautiful Baltid Croatian girl I have met was from Dalmacija(predominately Med?) Apparently her family have been there for generations.

Oh, I know very well what you are talking about :naughty

Übersoldat
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 06:00 AM
There is a point to people from regions looking "different".BUT, the blondest and most beautiful Baltid Croatian girl I have met was from Dalmacija(predominately Med?) Apparently her family have been there for generations.

Dalmatia is not med (like South Spain or South Italy) but Atlanto-Mediteranean or Litoral by race.

Coon:

Dalmatians
On the steep and narrow coast of the Dinaric Alps, the zone of Dinaric racial concentration tapers off abruptly. The mean stature of the coastal people, from Istria along the Croatian shore and through the length of Dalmatia almost to the border of Albania, rises regularly from about 166 cm. to 171 cm., as one proceeds southeastward.124 Although the head form, with a mean cephalic index of 83-84, remains brachycephalic, the extreme short-headedness of the mountain interior is not present. The pigmentation changes gradually but extensively from a prevailingly blond condition in Istria to a prevalence of dark-mixed and dark eyes, and of black or dark brown hair, in southeastern Dalmatia. One may attribute the lesser Dinaricism of the Dalmatians to Italian or to Vlach blood, or to both,125 but this cannot be the only explanation. Dalmatia is the home, in solution, of a strong Atlanto-Mediterranean strain comparable to that found in northern Italy, which must go back in both places to a considerable antiquity.
See also: http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/troeplate23.htm

Vojvoda
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 06:00 AM
Oh, I know very well what you are talking about :naughty

:lol, good. Make love not war;)

Vojvoda
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 06:06 AM
Dalmatia is not med (like South Spain or South Italy) but Atlanto-Mediteranean or Litoral by race.

Coon:

Dalmatians
On the steep and narrow coast of the Dinaric Alps, the zone of Dinaric racial concentration tapers off abruptly. The mean stature of the coastal people, from Istria along the Croatian shore and through the length of Dalmatia almost to the border of Albania, rises regularly from about 166 cm. to 171 cm., as one proceeds southeastward.124 Although the head form, with a mean cephalic index of 83-84, remains brachycephalic, the extreme short-headedness of the mountain interior is not present. The pigmentation changes gradually but extensively from a prevailingly blond condition in Istria to a prevalence of dark-mixed and dark eyes, and of black or dark brown hair, in southeastern Dalmatia. One may attribute the lesser Dinaricism of the Dalmatians to Italian or to Vlach blood, or to both,125 but this cannot be the only explanation. Dalmatia is the home, in solution, of a strong Atlanto-Mediterranean strain comparable to that found in northern Italy, which must go back in both places to a considerable antiquity.
See also: http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/troeplate23.htm

Thanks for the info.The question is how many Vlachs were actually assimilated? I'm sure they are still around in Dalmacija, or do they consider themselves to be Croatian because they are Catholic?, vice versa for Vlachs who are Orthodox.

Vojvoda
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 06:12 AM
He looks a bit out of place, yes, but Turanid? He has a look that is common in Turkey, but with Turanid I usually associate something else (like the appearance of some Hungarians). I guess his "odd" traits can not be explained by Turanid alone.

This footballer from Vojvodina looks Turanid as well.

http://members.tripod.com/~dekisa/igraci/czvezda/boskovic2.jpg

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 06:12 AM
This player looks like a few Croats I know. His last name is "Mesaric" which could be Croatian (Zvaci?), although it's frequent in a few villages nearby, so I though he was Slovene and listed him among the first ;).

http://www.snkmura.com/squad/first/mesaric03-04.jpg

Übersoldat
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 06:13 AM
:lol, good. Make love not war;)

Ordinary I would not consider this as an insult, but knowing how Serbs treat women in wars and ingenerally I would not let you have even our last and ugliest grandmother. (honor to the exceptions) :(

Vojvoda
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 06:15 AM
Ordinary I would not consider this as an insult, but knowing how Serbs treat women in wars and ingenerally I would not let you have even our last and ugliest grandmother. (honor to the exceptions) :(

?.It wasn't meant as an insult.

Übersoldat
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 06:32 AM
Thanks for the info.The question is how many Vlachs were actually assimilated? I'm sure they are still around in Dalmacija, or do they consider themselves to be Croatian because they are Catholic?, vice versa for Vlachs who are Orthodox.

There are no Vlachs anymore, at least not as ethnicity. They was present on entire Balkans. Racially they was Dinaric just like many other nations in the region and the percentage of Vlah blood cannot be even measured by the percentage of Dinaricism. The only thing we can do to trace them is by observing ethnic customs and names : like forinstance Romanian sounding names like Drakulić, Drakulović , 'klan' names like 'Morlaci', 'Vlai' ect.

Vojvoda
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 06:43 AM
There are no Vlachs anymore, at least not as ethnicity. They was present on entire Balkans. Racially they was Dinaric just like many other nations in the region and the percentage of Vlah blood cannot be even measured by the percentage of Dinaricism. The only thing we can do to trace them is by observing ethnic customs and names : like forinstance Romanian sounding names like Drakuli?, Drakulovi? , 'klan' names like 'Morlaci', 'Vlai' ect.

Hm, they still exist in eastern Serbia anyway as a viable,but not large, minority.They have always kept to themselves mostly.They do have slavicized last names,just like Michael Jordan is not English;), but they still consider themselves to be "Aromani".You will not hear the Serbian language much near the Danube river,especially in and around Negotin.

Nordhammer
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 09:25 AM
I guess this is what you were thinking about:

http://www.legioneuropa.org/Racediv/CSCoon/Images/p10f7.gif

http://letterman.iscool.com/october/10-9a.jpg

It doesn't take an expert...

LOL Too funny. :D

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 11:54 AM
LOL Too funny. :D

It was meant to be objective :|.

Übersoldat
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 01:17 PM
"While big boys are fighting little ones should run under the table."

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 01:30 PM
"While big boys are fighting little ones should run under the table."

I have to ask you about the purpose of this remark..

Übersoldat
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 01:43 PM
I have to ask you about the purpose of this remark..

And I shall be happy to reply but please help me solve this riddle first:

http://www.legioneuropa.org/Racediv/CSCoon/Images/p10f7.gif
http://letterman.iscool.com/october/10-9a.jpg

What is the purpose of this unholy comparison?

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 01:52 PM
Originally Posted by volksdeutsche
"Irish" look, give me a break. Was he a realist? I can only laugh about that when I can see the obvious Negroid traits in that man.

He was referring to this gentleman:

An old Riffian warrior, one of the Ulad Abd el Mumen clan in the
Vale of Iherrushen, Gzennaya. Although indistinguishable metrically from many tall:
Mediterraneans, this individual possesses morphological features in the region of the eyes, nose, mouth, and jaw, which are clearly of Afalou inspiration, and which give him an "Irish" look.

http://www.legioneuropa.org/Racediv/CSCoon/Images/p10f7.gif

...so I tried to reconstruct his train of thought and tried to be objective as I have already pointed out.

Übersoldat
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 02:25 PM
Thank's for pointing this interesting detail Triglav, but I was under the impression that our debate is about Croat-Serb phenotypic differences, not about some Negro tribes. I would expect this from some ignorant Yankee to look on our nations like on some anonymous African tribes but not our neighboring fellows Europeans.
+++
I was quoting Dr. Vlatko Maček. He was one of our domestic traitors, and this proverb was his major political wisdom and altitude at the dawn of WW2. Its not a surprise our folkish state 1941. threw him in house prison for such unmanly attitude. I guess I am tired also, my head is full of historic details when I should debate racial subjects. :fgdnight:

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 02:47 PM
Thank's for pointing this interesting detail Triglav, but I was under the impression that our debate is about Croat-Serb phenotypic differences, not about some Negro tribes. I would expect this from some ignorant Yankee to look on our nations like on some anonymous African tribes but not our neighboring fellows Europeans.

We were completely in the dark about Zivkovic's racial subtype, so we were starting to make comparisons. Since you said he's most likely a Gypsy, it is not like this comparison has not suggested itself. However, Volksdeutsche saw a Negroid strain in the Moroccan, so I tried to reconstruct his train of thought, as I already pointed out, by showing a Congoid who is similar to the Moroccan gentleman. Don't be offended by our ramblings.


I was quoting Dr. Vlatko Ma?ek. He was one of our domestic traitors, and this proverb was his major political wisdom and altitude at the dawn of WW2. Its not a surprise our folkish state 1941. threw him in house prison for such unmanly attitude. I guess I am tired also, my head is full of historic details when I should debate racial subjects. :fgdnight:

I still don't see the purpose nor any sense that could be relevant to this thread.

Triglav
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 02:51 PM
Besides, we were basically talking about the Borreby sub-type and other infusions in Zivkovic.

Übersoldat
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 09:03 PM
We were completely in the dark about Zivkovic's racial subtype, so we were starting to make comparisons. Since you said he's most likely a Gypsy, it is not like this comparison has not suggested itself. However, Volksdeutsche saw a Negroid strain in the Moroccan, so I tried to reconstruct his train of thought, as I already pointed out, by showing a Congoid who is similar to the Moroccan gentleman. Don't be offended by our ramblings.
I still don't see the purpose nor any sense that could be relevant to this thread.

LOL pay no attention on my senseless post. I was slippy and my mind was playing tricks with me, haven't sleep for two days. :AWW
I was just under the false impression you are trying to point out Croats and Serbs have the same similarity like these two tanned "gentlemen". I have to admit I became jumpy on all this attempts from West and East to draw the equal line between nations they now very little about. So I usually overreact on such cliché because I respect ethnic individuality almost to the level of tribalism.

Please carry on with this interesting analysis. Any yes, I agree North African meds have Sub-saharan traces. :osama

Bonaparte
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 10:17 PM
Don't be to hard on your self, it could be worse, Serbs still look a bit more European than Greeks. ;)

Greeks are very European. I can't say the same about Russians and sattelites

Bonaparte
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 10:20 PM
You mean the Slovenes are the lightest. Without wanting to be biased, I am quite sure about this.

May be but would that achieve? Slovens are still seen as threat by Austrians (immigration...)

Bonaparte
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 10:26 PM
All of the above individuals could pass as Frenchmen, but this isn't saying much :). However, types such as these cannot be very common in Serbia - the fact that they are blackhaired already disqualifies them from the distinction of being "typical Serbs" ( 8.2% of Serbs have black hair).

Have you been in France? I doubt so. The 2 second could be, not the first one.

However don't come to check.

Bonaparte
Sunday, November 9th, 2003, 10:32 PM
[QUOTE=Zvaci]our neighboring fellows Europeans.QUOTE]

Don't be too optimistic. We don't consider you yet Europeans. The mistake Brussels is making will cost us all a lot

Triglav
Monday, November 10th, 2003, 02:03 AM
May be but would that achieve? Slovens are still seen as threat by Austrians (immigration...)

Immigration? Are you sure about Slovenians? Rather few Slovenians live in Austria apart from those who are autochthonous (especially in Carinthia). Besides, I do not see any relevance to physical anthropology in your statement.

Awar
Monday, November 10th, 2003, 02:10 AM
:rofl at Bonaparte.

Slovenians in Austria are autochtonous there. A great percentage of Austrians are either autochtonous or germanized Slavs.

Triglav
Monday, November 10th, 2003, 02:24 AM
:rofl at Bonaparte.

Slovenians in Austria are autochtonous there. A great percentage of Austrians are either autochtonous or germanized Slavs.

:shrug

Yes, that's correct. Actually, the majority of the autochthonous population in the Austrian territory was first Slavicised and then Germanised by both colonialists.

Übersoldat
Monday, November 10th, 2003, 03:14 AM
[QUOTE=Zvaci]our neighboring fellows Europeans.QUOTE]

Don't be too optimistic. We don't consider you yet Europeans. The mistake Brussels is making will cost us all a lot

Being a citizen of EU and European are two different things. I don't need a piece of paper to tell me who I am. Citizenship in EU shall not make me feel more or less European than I really am - on contrary - it can only bring us colored immigrants, reduce national independence, defensive strength, manipulate internal politics, newspapers, education, ecology ect.
I really don't see any important benefits of the life in globalism ingenerally.

rusalka
Monday, November 10th, 2003, 05:12 AM
[QUOTE=AWAR]
Legendary DAVOR SUKER
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/155711.jpg

Goran Vlaovic
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/155713.jpg

Mario Stanic
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/159172.jpg

Alen Boksic
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/155689.jpg

[QUOTE]

And I was thinking, WHERE the hell is Suker and Boksic and Vlaovic; my favorite trio from the 96 European cup (wait, was Vlaovic in the 98 World cup only? naah, I think he was in the 96 team too) Thanks AWAR!

Anyway, that Mario Stanic..
:inlove

rusalka
Monday, November 10th, 2003, 05:28 AM
Well I replied to AWAR's post without seeing the following debate so now it looks reall very stupid. But I think the whole point was the Croatian football players. :)

I really have difficulty understanding why European people have to fight amongst themselves about who is more European though. I would suggest concentrating on the European culture itself, as a whole, which is slowly dying out, local cultures disappearing under the so-called globalization; but then, who cares.. :|

Triglav
Monday, November 10th, 2003, 05:42 AM
I really have difficulty understanding why European people have to fight amongst themselves about who is more European though.

Inferiority complexes. Ridiculing others to hide behind one's own faults in order to make themselves feel better by comparison. :|


I would suggest concentrating on the European culture itself, as a whole, which is slowly dying out, local cultures disappearing under the so-called globalization; but then, who cares.. :|

Well, many do and I know that you do, too. Don't be discouraged by those who don't seem to grasp this at all and are afflicted with the aforementioned disease. Don't allow them to dull your mind ;).