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kgnju
Sunday, May 21st, 2006, 01:44 PM
Did modern English come from the ancient Germanic dialect of Angli,Sachsen,Jute or Frisians?Did Franks affect the ancient English language?By the way,did the word "angel" come from "Angli"?Thanks!:)

Konrad
Sunday, May 21st, 2006, 02:29 PM
England was invaded by anglon and saxon tribes. In this way it was especialy the languages of those tribes which resuklted in the old-english language.

Later French got populary in the european nobility and this effected that the old english, what was until the 10 century verry close to old-german, was influenced by english, which leaded to the modern english.

Possibly also the franks had a little influence on english, since flemisch have settled them also on the island. (I once hearde that Robert the Bruce would have been descendent of a flemish family and "the Bruce" would have come from "de Bruges" = of Brugge)

Rhydderch
Monday, May 22nd, 2006, 12:43 PM
(I once hearde that Robert the Bruce would have been descendent of a flemish family and "the Bruce" would have come from "de Bruges" = of Brugge)I think that comes from de "Bruis", a place in France.

Leofric
Thursday, June 29th, 2006, 07:59 AM
Did modern English come from the ancient Germanic dialect of Angli,Sachsen,Jute or Frisians?
Modern standard English is, if I am not mistaken, largely derived from the Saxon dialect, but with substantial post-OE influence from the dialect of the Angles.



Did Franks affect the ancient English language?
Not that I know of, though the Germanic language of the Franks and that of the Anglo-Saxons would have been the same language, just different dialects. And where the difference is not linguistic but dialectal, influence is much easier to have happen and much harder to detect.



By the way,did the word "angel" come from "Angli"?Thanks!:)
The word "angel" comes from the Greek word "aggelos" (the first g nasalizes in Greek), which means 'messenger', and is therefore not related to the Angles at all.

However, you are in good company to draw a connection there. According to tradition, when Pope Gregory I (540604 AD) first saw Angles, being struck by their fair and beautiful appearance, asked what kind of people they were. When he was told they were Angli, we replied, "Non Angli, sed angeli." (Not Angles, but Angels.) He then proceeded to order their Christianization.

Oswiu
Thursday, June 29th, 2006, 10:32 PM
Modern standard English is, if I am not mistaken, largely derived from the Saxon dialect, but with substantial post-OE influence from the dialect of the Angles.
I could be wrong, but wouldn't the OE period [along with the ascendant Kingdom of Wessex] be largely irrelevant in a linguistic sense to the speech of modern England, on account of the post-Conquest English revival [thanks to Chaucer et al] having been a largely Midlands phenomenon, the literary dialect being a development of the London dialect [though situated in Middle Saxon territory, the city was in the later OE period more allied to Mercia linguistically] and the East Midland result of Mercian Old English + Danish + Norman French.

However, you are in good company to draw a connection there. According to tradition, when Pope Gregory I (540604 AD) first saw Angles, being struck by their fair and beautiful appearance, asked what kind of people they were. When he was told they were Angli, we replied, "Non Angli, sed angeli." (Not Angles, but Angels.) He then proceeded to order their Christianization.
Gregorius also asked "And who is their King?"
"AElle, your Holiness."
"Then let the Alleluia be sounded there!"
[Somethin on those lines, anyroad! ;) ]

kgnju
Friday, June 30th, 2006, 02:42 PM
thank you all for replies!

Klegutati
Tuesday, July 25th, 2006, 05:51 PM
Wait a minute!! What did Old English sound like? Does anyone have an audio clip?:~( Also, I believe that the Danes and Norwegians had their part in making the modern English language, along with Norman French (of course)..:thumbup

Oswiu
Tuesday, July 25th, 2006, 06:10 PM
Wait a minute!! What did Old English sound like? Does anyone have an audio clip?:~( Also, I believe that the Danes and Norwegians had their part in making the modern English language, along with Norman French (of course)..:thumbup
Here's a poem. Click on the big letters and you'll hear it.
http://www.kami.demon.co.uk/gesithas/readings/brun_oe.html

Recorded from the author in 960, I promise. ;)

Rhydderch
Wednesday, July 26th, 2006, 12:02 PM
I could be wrong, but wouldn't the OE period [along with the ascendant Kingdom of Wessex] be largely irrelevant in a linguistic sense to the speech of modern England, on account of the post-Conquest English revival [thanks to Chaucer et al] having been a largely Midlands phenomenon, the literary dialect being a development of the London dialect [though situated in Middle Saxon territory, the city was in the later OE period more allied to Mercia linguistically] and the East Midland result of Mercian Old English + Danish + Norman French.Yes, what I've read is that before the Norman Conquest, the Anglian dialect of Mercia had spread to London, and subsequently, English has been based on that.

Klegutati
Saturday, September 9th, 2006, 01:04 PM
Are there any texts of the Old English Kentish dialect, or perhaps the earlier Jutish dialect of the south of England, or Kent?:|

Theudiskaz
Saturday, September 9th, 2006, 06:24 PM
Yes, there are Kentish dialect texts. By the time Old English had become a written language, no one in England is thought have identified themselves or their speech as "Jutish" or "Geatisc". The laws of Ine, among other texts, were written in Kentish, I believe.

Theudiskaz
Saturday, September 9th, 2006, 06:28 PM
The laws of Ine, among other texts, were written in Kentish, I believe.No. I take that back "Ines Domas" were written in West Saxon. But I'm pretty sure there is at least one Kentish law code out there. I'll have to find it.

Klegutati
Sunday, September 10th, 2006, 05:46 PM
Thanks man!! I have been searching for Kentish (Centisc) texts for ages now. It is very important to me because my ancestors, according to my Y-DNA, were probably 60% chance of being Jutish, or 40% of being Saxon.:~( Needless to say, they were most probably Jutish. My surname is from the Isle of Wight, and in Southamptonshire. By the way, you said Geatisc? I read a theory stating that the Jutes and the Goths (Geats) of southern Sweden the same people.. Do you believe this to be true?:|

Theudiskaz
Sunday, September 10th, 2006, 06:03 PM
By the way, you said Geatisc? I read a theory stating that the Jutes and the Goths (Geats) of southern Sweden the same people.. Do you believe this to be true?:|
I myself think they were "Goths" from Gotland/Goetaland, Sweden. (Although at this time the Goths/Gautar of what is now southern Sweden were not Swedes. They were a separate tribe from the Svear who lived further north.) OE "Geatas" is, after all, cognate with ON "Gautar". In Beowulf, the "Geats" of what is now southern Sweden, the tribe of the hero himself, are translated not as "Jutes", but simply modernized to "Geats". I think the tradition of calling them "Jutes" is a mistake in transliteration, that has become a tradition.

Klegutati
Sunday, September 10th, 2006, 11:02 PM
So essentially, I am of Swedish Goths that migrated to northern Denmark?:D