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View Full Version : 'Movement for the Autonomy of Silesia' (Schlesien)



Iksfiluss
Monday, May 8th, 2006, 09:21 PM
http://raslaska.aremedia.net/deu/index.htm


Die Bewegung für die Autonomie Schlesiens ist eine Organisation mit einem klaren politischen Gesicht. Sie vertritt eine spezifische Vision mit Schlesien als Teil des vereinigten Europas, die durch Attribute wie eigenes Parlament, eigene Finanzen und Regierung charakterisiert wird. Diese Vision lehnt sich an die politischen Standards, die inzwischen in vielen europä-ischen Regionen vorzufinden sind. Die BAS beabsichtigt, diese Ziele auf friedlichem Wege und durch Anwendung der geltenden demokratischen Prozeduren zu erreichen. Die BAS verbindet mit Bedacht die Tradition mit der Moderne und tritt für das Vereinigte Europa der 100 Fahnen ein, in welchem die meisten Kompe-tenzen auf die historisch gewachsenen Regionen übertragen werden. So ein Europa wird das Europa der Völker: Schlesier, Mährer, Schotten, Bretonen, Basken, usw., also ein Europa, das zu seinen Wurzeln zurückkehrt.

(english version avalible)
:)

soffio_di_wotan
Sunday, August 27th, 2006, 11:22 PM
http://raslaska.aremedia.net/deu/index.htm

(english version avalible)
:)


If i'm not mistaken that group is separatist and I'M NOT AGREE WITH separatims !! It's created from jewish planes -politics.

We all nordic people should be joined in only only big NS nation !

NO SEPARATISM !:thumbdown

NO EUROPA NATION !!:thumbdown

NO ACTUAL STATE'S LIMITS :thumbdown

GroSS Deutschland ?? YEESSSSSSSSS ! :thumbup

Ygger
Wednesday, August 30th, 2006, 09:13 PM
That's big shit! Schlesien is a part of germany and Schlesier are germans. It's part of the german empire and it belgs to no other state!

Torchiam
Thursday, August 31st, 2006, 10:10 AM
I did not hear so a imbecility in Niederschlesien ever. Stupid shit of a small group of separatists.:thumbdown

Kenaz
Friday, September 22nd, 2006, 06:08 PM
My ancestors lived in Prussia/Silesia for CENTURIES!
Now to read *polak* on their site makes me wanting to vomit!!! :mad

Jäger
Friday, September 22nd, 2006, 06:45 PM
An independent Slesia is better than a polish one.

What else should they strive for? Unity with the FRG? If I were a slesian I wouldn't want to join the FRG either, the country who gave up on this land.

If somehow Germany gets on the right track again, an independent Slesia will have it much better if it ever wanted to join a real Germany.

Therefor you guys shouldn't attack that idea, better support it, and as far as it goes for the polish language, well, if we like it or not, most simply can't speak proper german anymore. Maybe that is something which they could change if they were independant :)

So good luck I'd say, but don't get used to it :D

Stolem
Friday, September 22nd, 2006, 09:40 PM
The ethnicity and laguage of the original Silesians in the middleages was
polish.Today the dialect of the "Silesians" is only a polish one.So they are poles....

soffio_di_wotan
Saturday, September 30th, 2006, 05:08 PM
An independent Slesia is better than a polish one.

What else should they strive for? Unity with the FRG? If I were a slesian I wouldn't want to join the FRG either, the country who gave up on this land.

If somehow Germany gets on the right track again, an independent Slesia will have it much better if it ever wanted to join a real Germany.

Therefor you guys shouldn't attack that idea, better support it, and as far as it goes for the polish language, well, if we like it or not, most simply can't speak proper german anymore. Maybe that is something which they could change if they were independant :)

So good luck I'd say, but don't get used to it :D


DEAR JAGER I WANT TO SAY YOU WHAT IT'S NOT IMPORTANT THE ETNICITY BUT IS IMPORTANT THE RACE THAT IS: BLOOD, SOUL, CULTURE.

THE IMPORTANT IS TO BE " GERMANISCH PERSON ".

THE SEPARATISM CAN TO BE APPROVED ( ...BY SANE PEOPLE'S MIND ) WHERE ONE NATION IS CREATED FROM DIFFERENTS RACES LIKE ITALY FOR EXEMPLE OR LIKE SPAIN.

SEPARATE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE FROM THE SAME BLOOD, SOUL, CULTURE IS ONE BIG REAL CRIME WHAT IS LIKED FROM JEWISCH'ES FREEMASSON.


:thumbup

Nattsvargr
Monday, February 26th, 2007, 04:51 AM
http://raslaska.aremedia.net/deu/index.htm

(english version avalible)
:)


I was quite interested to read this, as I have family that once resided in Schlesien, but I cannot access the English version. Oddly enough, the German and Polish versions load just fine...

Dr. Solar Wolff
Monday, February 26th, 2007, 06:19 AM
It doesn't sound like an arguement for either a Polish or German Silesia, just an independent Silesia. I give up, if it is not Polish or German, what is it? Who would live there? What language would they speak? What place names would they use?

Volksdeutscher
Monday, July 14th, 2008, 10:19 PM
The Silesian Autonomy Movement has sent a petition to Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk asking him to allow all regional communities to gain autonomy status.

If he does not agree, the Silesians say they are ready to raise the issue of separation, according to Russian newspaper Rossiyskaya Gazeta.

The movement officially declares its support for the autonomy of Silesia. The association was founded in 1991 and is based mainly in the Polish part of Upper Silesia.

A similar petition has been sent to the Polish Sejm, the lower house of parliament, which along with the Senate (the upper house) has adopted the Act on National and Ethnic Minorities and on Regional Language in the country. The Silesians and the Silesian language have not been mentioned among other nationalities and ethnical minorities.

In the 2002 national census, over 170, 000 Poles described their nationality as 'Silesian'. One third of them use the Silesian language at home. The language has been entered into the list of languages at the US Library of Congress.

Silesians have appealed to the Strasbourg Court of Human Rights after the Polish district court in Katovitsy ruled that the Silesian nation does not exist, and did not let the Silesian Union to be registered.

According to experts, a deliberate decision to ignore the Silesians’ interests could provoke the ‘Kosovo scenario’.

The problem has a long history. Silesia is a historical region of Central Europe located in modern day Poland, the Czech Republic and Germany. Modern Silesia is inhabited by Poles, Germans, Czechs and Slavic Silesians. The last Polish census of 2002 showed that the Silesians are the largest national minority in Poland, Germans being the second. Both groups are located mostly in Upper Silesia. The Czech part of Silesia is inhabited by Czechs, Moravians and Poles.

In 1920-1939 Silesia had its own Sejm, the governing body in control of the budget. It was elected in democratic elections and had certain influence over the usage of taxes collected in Silesia.

http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/26286 (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.russ iatoday.ru%2Fnews%2Fnews%2F26286)

What do you think about Silesians/Silesia? Should it secede from Poland and be autonomous? Do you consider Silesia a multiethnic region, or a historic German region with some other minorities?

Scear
Tuesday, July 15th, 2008, 08:07 AM
Since half of Poland is currently residing in the UK, and the existence of the EU has all but made National frontiers in Europe symbolic at best, what difference does it make if Silesia is officially part of Poland, Germany, or independent. In the end, it's cities and towns are going to be just as full of Negroes and Asians as every other part of Europe. What next? Will the Prince of Baden be demanding the restoration of his sovereign prerogatives, or will Napoleon XI decree a new French Empire? These events would have about as much relevance to the contemporary European political and social millieu.

But best of luck to the country of Schlesien. I guess.:(

.Scear

Kriegersohn
Wednesday, July 16th, 2008, 11:41 PM
http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/26286 (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.russ iatoday.ru%2Fnews%2Fnews%2F26286)

What do you think about Silesians/Silesia? Should it secede from Poland and be autonomous? Do you consider Silesia a multiethnic region, or a historic German region with some other minorities?

Schlesien is, well, Schlesien. It has elements of both of what you mention. It is a historic German region with other minorities (from 1526 onward, if memory serves). At the same time with the millions of Germans that fled the area during, and subsequent expulsions after, WW2 it has become a multiethnic region. Correct me here if I'm wrong, around 20% are German-speaking/ethnic Germans...perhaps more, as plans for more German schools and various other ethnic associations got nixed by the government numerous times in the 90's. Autonomy would be interesting (doesn't Niederschlesien, Lower Silesia, have an autonomos voivoidship within Poland currently?), though as pointed out in another post with the EU would it matter?

Of course, I still remember the Polish government wanting to declare war on the German minority there in the mid-90's because we were helping to fund German schools and others were helping to set them up (which was illegal at the time). Hopefully things have changed...

FFF
Ragnar

Siebenbürgerin
Sunday, July 20th, 2008, 04:59 PM
I consider Silesia significantly German. It had its own "Lied". :)
InWridJ5pZE

Schlesierlied

1. Kehr ich einst zur Heimat wieder,
Früh am Morgen, wenn die Sonn' aufgeht.
Schau ich dann ins Tal hernieder,
Wo vor einer Tür ein Mädchen steht.

Refrain
Da seufzt sie still, ja still und flüstert leise:
Mein Schlesierland, mein Heimatland,
So von Natur, Natur in alter Weise,
Wir sehn uns wieder, mein Schlesierland,
Wir sehn uns wieder am Oderstrand.

2. In dem Schatten einer Eiche,
Ja, da gab ich ihr den Abschiedskuß.
Schatz, ich kann nicht bei dir bleiben,
Weil, ja weil ich von dir scheiden muß.

Da seufzt sie still, . . . . .

3. Liebes Mädchen, laß das Weinen,
Liebes Mädchen, laß das Weinen sein.
Wenn die Rosen wieder blühen,
Ja dann kehr ich wieder bei dir ein.

Da seufzt sie still, . . . . .

Some more videos of Silesia

Brieg / Brzeg once upon a time und today (Silesia)
bQVwqVx79xI

Silesia unforgotten fatherland
bQVwqVx79xI

Expelling from Silesia
tHCuaOFcmo0

Kreis AnnA
Sunday, July 20th, 2008, 05:01 PM
My grandmother was Silesian. Many Silesian Germans were forced out by Polish expansionism at the beginning of the twentieth century. The ones the came to America were stripped of their assets before they left. When my grandmother got here (as a girl) she was shocked to be called Polish. She spoke a dialect known as Silesian German or Slesisch. I would think if she were around she'd be just as surprised to find out that her homeland re-emerged.

http://www.everyculture.com/Europe/Silesians.html (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ever yculture.com%2FEurope%2FSilesians.html)

"Silesian," in today's literature, has come to refer to two distinct groups: "Polish-speaking Prussians" and "German-speaking Poles." Both these groups exist as cultural and ethnic minority enclaves within the larger political entity that serves as their host. The Polish-speaking Silesian population in Germany sought throughout the 1800s to maintain a Polish linguistic and religious identity, particularly in the face of the Kulturkampf, launched by Germany in 1872 as an effort to insulate the Reich against regionalism, ethnic nationalism, and Catholicism. In Poland, this development resulted in a closing of Polish ranks against all things German, which had the effect of sensitizing the German-speaking communities of Lower Silesia to their own ethnic and linguistic roots. In both portions of Silesia, the minority populations have, over time, become fully integrated into their respective host economies, but in both cases there remained, and remains, a high level of national consciousness and a will to resist political assimilation.

Jute
Sunday, July 20th, 2008, 05:20 PM
Schlesien is, well, Schlesien. It has elements of both of what you mention. It is a historic German region with other minorities (from 1526 onward, if memory serves).
I'm not sure what event you are refering by that year, but History is much older than 1526.

Silesia was an solid part of Ancient Germania. No Slavs lived there until after the 500s AD, when they began to invade and take over our eastern territories. The ancient authors all considered the Vistula River [Weichsel] as the eastern border of Germania, with some of our kinsmen even living east of it. It was to our eastern frontier what the Rhine became to our west. I.e., that we had some Germanic tribes living on both sides, but no one questioned our supremacy on the east side of the Rhine / west side of Weichsel. (Something interesting: In German "wechseln" means "change"...I wonder if this is a coincidence!).

From Pre-History until 1945, Silesia was Slavic for only around 500 years (in the post-RomanEmpire / Pre-Crusades period). Silesia, lost to Germania for some centuries, was resettled by Germans in the early second millennium AD. It was Germanic/proto-Germanic for a long time before the Slav invasion, and It was Germanic after the resettling [until 1945 when, once again, invaders from the East stole it].

As for the original question, I care nothing what Silesia's Slavic occupiers will do or not.

Kriegersohn
Sunday, July 20th, 2008, 05:30 PM
I'm not sure what event you are refering by that year, but History is much older than 1526.
I realize the history of the region is much older. At the same time, with the influx of Slavs and the rise of Bohemian, Moravian and Polish states...the area came under Slavic rule *until* 1526 when it passed back into Germanic hands, under the Austrians and, later, the Prussians. As for 500 years of rule being insignificant, it does provide a historical reason/claim of Slavs to rule the region now...particularly with the expulsion of the majority (though not all) of the Germans in region after WW2.

FFF
Ragnar

Volksdeutscher
Sunday, July 20th, 2008, 05:35 PM
As for the original question, I care nothing what Silesia's Slavic occupiers will do or not.
So you don't care about the state of Silesia? Whatever happens to it will affect the ethnic Germans who live there. Don't you think they would be better off in an autonomous or even in dependent state than as part of Poland?

Jute
Sunday, July 20th, 2008, 05:38 PM
How many Germans live there? As far as I know there are none or almost none, anymore.

Breslau is still technically the seat of an Lutheran bishopric, but he is a shepherd with no flock.

Siebenbürgerin
Sunday, July 20th, 2008, 05:45 PM
I couldn't find any numbers, but here what Silesian demographics say:

Modern Silesia is inhabited by Poles, Germans, Czechs and slavic Silesians. The last Polish census of 2002 showed that the Silesians are the largest national minority in Poland, Germans being the second; both groups are located mostly in Upper Silesia.

The source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesia#Demographics (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikip edia.org%2Fwiki%2FSilesia%23Demographics )

Jute
Sunday, July 20th, 2008, 05:54 PM
I couldn't find any numbers, but here what Silesian demographics say:

Modern Silesia is inhabited by Poles, Germans, Czechs and slavic Silesians. The last Polish census of 2002 showed that the Silesians are the largest national minority in Poland, Germans being the second; both groups are located mostly in Upper Silesia.

The source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesia#Demographics (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikip edia.org%2Fwiki%2FSilesia%23Demographics )
Also according to their census, 0.2% of all of Poland today are evangelisch-lutherisch. This is a good way to judge the number of true ethnicGermans who are still there, and who did not Slavicize.

0.2% of Poland's 38.5 million population : 77,000.

Seit dem Zweiten Weltkrieg und der Westverschiebung Polens ist das Land fast einheitlich katholisch. Fast 90 % sind römisch-katholisch, davon etwa 70 % praktizierend. 1,3 % Polen sind polnisch-orthodox, 0,3 % Zeugen Jehovas, 0,2 % griechisch-katholisch, 0,2 % evangelisch-lutherisch.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polen#Religion (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fde.wikip edia.org%2Fwiki%2FPolen%23Religion)

Kreis AnnA
Sunday, July 20th, 2008, 06:09 PM
There was a heavy German Catholic movement in Silesia. My grandmother was Catholic. This has to be placed in the context of the Polish Church. Some here think that this is ancient history or something, but it's not. And the loss of identity doesn't make it any easier. Please respect all our Volk. As an American, by modern identity, I do not take sides concerning the American Civil War because of certain historical facts. It still rips the heart of so many Anglo-Americans and the pain is the memory of these folk, afterall.

There was a Prussian Silesia (lower) and an Austrian one (upper) inhabited by many Germans who were both Protestant and Catholic.

http://http%3A%2F%2Ffindarticles.com...9252213% 2Fpg_9 (http://http%3a%2f%2ffindarticles.com%2fp%2farti cles%2fmi_qa3686%2fis_200308%2fai_n92522 13%2fpg_9/)

Although Hakatist membership only grew slowly - despite prominent members such as Bismarck - and although the organization had little success in encouraging Germans to colonize the Prussian East, the Eastern Marches Association and other similar groups succeeded in making national identification an issue for both Germans and Poles in Upper Silesia.53 That this was true in Upper Silesia can be illustrated by the involvement of Silesian German Catholics in Germanization efforts. It was not empty nationalist rhetoric that led Robert Höniger of the H-K-T Society to assert that "the Catholic church has done much for the Germanization of the east."54 Despite sharp criticism from the Center that the Eastern Marches Association was part of a conspiracy to extend Protestantism - arguing that H-K-T actually stood for Haut die Katholiken Tot! (Strike the Catholics Dead!) - in Upper Silesia the Hakatist membership was at least 50 per cent Catholic, including by one estimate 60-70 per cent of the region's German-Catholic population.55 Although the Pan-German League another nationalist organization widely associated with Protestantization as well as Germanization - had only three active chapters east of Berlin, one of them was in Ratibor, an Upper Silesian constituency with a majority German-Catholic population and the most secure Center seat in the region throughout the imperial era.56 Not coincidentally, neither of these openly anti-Polish organizations had any significant membership among Catholics in the Kaiserreich except in Upper Silesia.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13790b.htm (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newa dvent.org%2Fcathen%2F13790b.htm)

Austrian Silesia is that part of Silesia which remained an Austrian possession after 1763. It is a crownland with an area of 1987 square miles and a population of 727,000 persons. Of its population 84.73 per cent are Catholics; 14 per cent are Protestants; 44.69 per cent are Germans; 33.31 per cent Poles; 22.05 per cent Czechs. As in Prussian Silesia, agriculture, mining, and manufactures are in a very flourishing condition. The districts of Teschen and Neisse belong to the Prince Bishopric of Breslau, those of Troppau and Jagerndorf to the Archdiocese of Olmutz.

Jute
Saturday, August 2nd, 2008, 09:52 PM
To continue this discussion, here is a map of religious character of the old German borders.
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/3129/religiongermany1930iq6.jpg
[A loosely-related comment : WWII and the defeat in the east leading to the 1945 borderchanges, badly hurt Lutheranism in Europe. Half the German-Protestant heartland either had its Germans expelled or fell into a communist state which suppressed religion.]



Please respect all our Volk.I apologize if any comment was disrespecting to German-Catholics. I did not mean it to be.

I believe the "77,000 Evangelisch" to be the best way to estimate true ethnicGermans left in Poland, however. We can add some tens of thousands more German-Catholics. So it is maybe ~90-95,000 total, including German-Catholics. (Unless a much larger percentage of German-Catholics than Protestants remained in Poland after 1945, which seems unlikely.)

Freyja
Friday, December 12th, 2008, 07:18 PM
According to censuses there are around 150-170 thousands of ethnic Germans in Poland, predominantly in Opole/Oppeln Voievodeship (100k). Most are catholic. Main problem with judging how many Germans are actually in Poland are Schlesians. Their culture is rather distinct from polish, but many regional cultures are, especially in areas influenced by different cultures. They speak polish, with heavy accent, but their language is closer to Hochpolnisch, than (for instance) bavarian is to Hochdeutsch. And, what is important for the issue, they consider themselves "polish" (for the most time) or "german", depending on political circumstances, current level of autonomy in Silesia, and business opportunities.

Dunkeld
Monday, December 29th, 2008, 09:17 AM
A little progress has been made:

The Polish authorities now allow bilingual Polish/German "Ortstafeln" in parts of Silesia now.

Siebenbürgerin
Saturday, February 28th, 2009, 08:37 AM
I found a demographic map for the German minority in Upper Silesia.

Map showing geographical spreading of the German minority in Upper Silesia (Poland) according to the National Census in Poland of 2002

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/German_Minority_Upper_Silesia.png

Nachtengel
Saturday, February 28th, 2009, 12:33 PM
I don't consider the Silesians a different ethnic group, they're really Germans. But as several said already, it's better to separate from Poland. Poland never respected ethnic German "minorities" (really just Germans who rightfully belong on what was formerly German land).

Nachtengel
Monday, December 28th, 2009, 09:39 PM
Silesia, a province in the south of Poland made up of a diverse cultural mix, has announced that it wants to be free of the state amidst the worsening economic crisis gripping the country.

Silesia, a province in the south of Poland made up of a diverse cultural mix, has announced that it wants to be free of the state amidst the worsening economic crisis gripping the country.

Over the past 20 years, the European continent has seen many regions seeking autonomy, which Silesia is following suit.

Life in the largely industrial region in southern Poland is hard going. Since the global financial crisis hit Europe, many manufacturers have shut up shop, leaving entire neighborhoods in and around the regional capital Katowice in limbo.

Once Poland’s proud industrial hub under Communism, Silesia has fallen into disarray since the nineties. Its coalmines and steel houses have long been neglected and many there agree the recent quest for autonomy is a result of a built-up frustration over the region's economic woes.

“There were times when we had our house in one state, Poland, but our toilet was across the border, in Germany. We used toilet paper as passports. But I feel neither German nor Polish, I am Silesian,” says Frida Goodheart, resident of Gliwice, who has been living in the village of Gliwice for 80 years.

Over the course of history, Silesia has been ruled by Austria, Prussia, Bohemia and Germany, which has brought a diverse cultural blend Silesians are so proud of. However, much like in communist times, the leader of the autonomous movement of Silesia says there is no place for minorities in modern Poland.

http://rt.com/s/obj/2009-05-27/Silesia__Now_.jpg

Prussian Silesia, 1871, outlined in yellow; (Austrian) Silesia before the annexion by Prussia in 1740, outlined in cyan. Map showing post-1994 state borders (Picture from site wikipedia.org)

“Every aspect of Upper Silesian tradition was brutally erased by the school, by the authorities. Our natural resources were exploited by the state. We have a possibility, after so many years, to express our identity that is different from the Polish one and to fight for our economic rights,” insists Jerzy Gorzelik, president of Silesian Autonomy Movement.

In a region-wide census a few years ago almost 200,000 people stated their nationality as Silesian, but in a region of four million people some say that figure is too small to be a mandate for self government.

“The movement for autonomy is marginal. The concept of Silesian identity is anachronistic. The majority of people here are Poles, and just because we are living through tough times financially does not mean we should leave Poland,” argues conservative politician Piotr Spyra.

The European court of human rights too has so far stopped short of recognizing Silesia as a nation, but it is yet to give its final decision. If in future Strasburg sides with Silesia, autonomy may not be far out of reach. This autonomy some believe will get Silesia back on its feet.

http://rt.com/Top_News/2009-05-27/Poles_apart__Silesians_realize_themselve s_as_a_nation.html

Curator
Thursday, February 4th, 2010, 09:33 AM
I believe the "77,000 Evangelisch" to be the best way to estimate true ethnicGermans left in Poland, however. We can add some tens of thousands more German-Catholics. So it is maybe ~90-95,000 total, including German-Catholics. (Unless a much larger percentage of German-Catholics than Protestants remained in Poland after 1945, which seems unlikely.)

It is likely for the fact that the Poles made a deliberate point of not expelling Catholic Germans in many places across the occupied zone, particularly in Silesia. Millions of Catholic Germans were still expelled, but the Catholics were favored over their Lutheran and Reformed brethren, who were much more thoroughly purged.

That being said, your estimate is low, even when compared against official statistics. And those official statistics are themselves misleading. Most Germans living in Poland outside of Silesia do not self-identify as Germans to government officials or information gatherers of any kind. This is deeply entrenched in the culture...if you lived in communist Poland as a German, you would understand why. There is a significant German population in every major city in Poland, particularly in Pomerania and Silesia. It's been estimated that Poland's actual German minority population easily exceeds a million people. Of course, the vast majority of these are "integrated" Germans, they belong to ethnically mixed families, they speak Polish as their primary language, etc. Still, the subject is not so cut-and-dry as one might assume.

Schattenjäger
Wednesday, December 22nd, 2010, 11:21 PM
That being said, your estimate is low, even when compared against official statistics. And those official statistics are themselves misleading. Most Germans living in Poland outside of Silesia do not self-identify as Germans to government officials or information gatherers of any kind. This is deeply entrenched in the culture...if you lived in communist Poland as a German, you would understand why. There is a significant German population in every major city in Poland, particularly in Pomerania and Silesia. It's been estimated that Poland's actual German minority population easily exceeds a million people. Of course, the vast majority of these are "integrated" Germans, they belong to ethnically mixed families, they speak Polish as their primary language, etc. Still, the subject is not so cut-and-dry as one might assume.

That can easily be said of my situation as well! Being from cross-cultural family I nevertheless grow up in environment that favored Germany and treated Polack as invaders. That refers to my school friends, students and professors on my university, and often local TV presenters and journalists. Almost everyone here had a grandpa in Wehrmacht, almost every family suffered in some way from recent polish administration. In private most of these people describe themselves as Germans, and feel nostalgic of Kaiser Wilhelm's time. Outside home, they prefer to act as Polacks to avoid problems (most of german catholics who stayed after 1945, had their surnames changed to polish by the polish authorities, so that's not problem). Also the first language of such persons is usually polish, since german was forbidden up to 1989. And opening of german schools goes very slow so far.

Do I have to add that BRD does very little to awaken this neglected group of people to express their real culture openly?

Erlkönig
Thursday, December 23rd, 2010, 03:22 AM
The Silesion Autonomy Movement won 3 seats in the Silesian Lower House this year, two times more votes than it had received since 2006.

It is also my understanding that something like 49% of Polands power comes from Silesia, they wont give it up easily, should be interesting.

Schattenjäger
Thursday, December 23rd, 2010, 10:51 AM
The Silesion Autonomy Movement won 3 seats in the Silesian Lower House this year, two times more votes than it had received since 2006.

It is also my understanding that something like 49% of Polands power comes from Silesia, they wont give it up easily, should be interesting.

You don't know the half of it :P

In the last months we have a nation-wide hysteria in Polen, with catholic church inciting ordinary Polacks, biggest newspapers and TV stations alarming about "german danger" and top politicians condemning "dangerous autonomy movement".

In last local elections on Schlesien, Deutsche Minderheit got 19% and Silesian Autonomy got 9% of entire votes.

Bernatowicz
Tuesday, July 12th, 2016, 05:48 PM
:(
My ancestors lived in Prussia/Silesia for CENTURIES!
Now to read *polak* on their site makes me wanting to vomit!!! :mad

Keep in mind that many ethnic Silesians (myself included) don't generally have problems with Poles.

Siebenbürgerin
Thursday, July 14th, 2016, 06:45 PM
I was under the impression there were conflictual views between Poles and Silesian Germans. Because the overtaking of Silesia has such a bloody and gruesome background, a lot of ethnic Germans hold some resentment towards Poland. Where brutality and force was used, it's hard to have a neutral remembrance. Whenever I listen or read to the memories of German Silesians who were expelled, it's always a sad picture...

Stolen Heritage: German Silesia
http://www.revisionist.net/german-silesia.html


“... In unending succession were girls, women and nuns violated... Not merely in secret, in hidden corners, but in the sight of everybody, even in churches, in the streets and in public places were nuns, women and even eight-year-old girls attacked again and again. Mothers were violated before the eyes of their children; girls in the presence of their brothers; nuns, in the sight of pupils, were outraged again and again to their very death and even as corpses... “ Mississippi Senator Eastland quoting from a letter smuggled out of Breslau September, 1945


Silesian Germans, some of whom had roots in Silesia going back centuries, and who before World War II amounted to about 4 million, were collectively labelled “German partisans” and either fled or were murdered, put in camps, sent to the Gulags or expelled. Often, the men would be rounded up from the villages and camps and marched a short distance away, shot and buried in mass graves. Under the terms of the agreements at the Yalta Conference of 1944 and the Potsdam Agreement of 1945, German Silesia east of the rivers Oder and Lusatian Neisse was transferred to Poland. Poles from lands stolen by Stalin were trucked in and resettled there before the blood had even dried. The Germans were sometimes ordered to not only leave all of their possessions behind, they were ordered to leave the beds made with clean linen. It was efficient, well-planned and organized.

Gerhart Hauptmann’s birthplace was a resort town in Silesia named Bad Salzbrunn. Fortunately for him, he died long before 1945 when he would have joined the millions of other Germans cast from their homes forever. An order of expulsion was placed upon the expellees by Communist Section Commander Major Zinkowski:

On July 14, 1945 from 6 to 9 oclock resettlement of the German population will take place.

The German population will be resettled to an area west of the river Neisse.

Each German is allowed to take 20kg of luggage with him at the most.

No means of transportation (wagons, oxen, horses, cows etc) is permitted.

The total of the living and dead inventory in an undamaged state remains the property of Poland.

The last resettlement deadline will terminate on the 14th of July at 10 o’clock.

Noncompliance with this order will be punished severely, including the use of weapons.

Sabotage and looting will also be prevented by the use of weapons.

Assembly point on the street station Bad Salzbrunn Adelsbacher Weg in a four person marching column. The head of the column is to be 20 meters before the village of Adelsbach.

Those Germans who have a certified non-evacuation order, are not permitted to leave their dwelling with their family members from 5 o’clock to 14:00.

All dwellings in the city must remain open; all apartment and house keys must be left outside.

Also some paragraphs from an other article:

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/04/15/magazine/is-anyone-german-here-a-journey-into-silesia.html?pagewanted=all


THE CASE OF THE GERMAN MINORITY IN POLAND holds a special interest, because the question of Germany's borders is so sensitive. Even half-enlightened Germans will shudder at the mention of their brethren in Poland, for the issue of the Germans in Silesia inevitably calls up associations with Germany's right-wing Silesian Patriots' Clubs, and the Leagues of Expellees, the umbrella organization representing Germans who were forced to leave Poland and Czechoslovakia after World War II. Some 12 million Germans were expelled, and the leagues claim a membership of 2.3 million.

Not long ago, the organization's president, Herbert Czaja, assailed the President of the Federal Republic for voting to confirm Poland's western border as it now stands, along the Oder and Neisse Rivers. How could the head of state ''surrender 104,000 square kilometers of Germany?'' he asked. The question was not rhetorical. The man really does want all of Silesia back, or at least Upper Silesia, the southern half of it, where almost all the Germans are.


Culturally German for centuries, Silesia was given to Poland after World War I, fell to the Nazis in 1939, and reverted to Poland after World War II in compensation for the loss of its eastern provinces to the Soviet Union. Nearly all its Germans were forcibly repatriated to Allied-administered West Germany. Today, some 600,000 to 800,000 polonized but ethnically German citizens live in the region, almost all of them in Upper Silesia, its southern half.

Germans have not had an easy time of it. Until January, it was illegal to speak, read or teach German in Upper Silesia (because there are so few Germans in Lower Silesia, its anti-German laws were relaxed in the 1950's).


The existence of the German minority had been denied right up to this year, ''when all along the region I live in had belonged to Germany until 1920, and it's nonsense to say there weren't any Germans in Germany, right?''

After the war, the Germans were forcibly polonized: ''We were frightened; today we're still frightened.'' Krol senior angrily tells us about a neighbor, ''a pure-blooded German'' who, with a typically German lack of civic-mindedness, still refuses to admit he's a German.

A video about the disputes:


An old debate is stirred again as Silesians question their national heritage. Rightwing conservatives in Poland feel national unity is threatened, minorities feel discriminated against.The dispute was unleashed by the former prime minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski. The nationalist politician said those who chose to describe themselves as 'Silesian' in the recent census were selecting a 'disguised option for Germany'. While most Silesians would never consider breaking away from Poland, they say they don't want to be treated as second-class citizens.

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A full documentary with more details on the Germans of Silesia:

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Some readings about the recent situation:

Poland's German minority - Angela Merkel's voters in Lower Silesia
http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2013/09/polands-german-minority

Upper Silesia – Torn Between Poland, Germany and Dreams of Autonomy
http://www.cafebabel.co.uk/berlin/article/upper-silesia-torn-between-poland-germany-and-dreams-of-autonomy.html

Salsa
Sunday, October 9th, 2016, 01:00 PM
It's at the same time important to remember that Poland "never" had any claims to Silesia. I read in some comments hostility towards Poland where the hostility should be towards Jew-Bolsheviks Communists.

The Germans where forced to leave their lands the same way Poles where forced to leave the estern Polish lands which became Soviet and again by force migrate to western lands previously not being Polish.

The whole movement of people is to blame not only on Soviets but also by the allied forces after WWII. Both Germans and Poles where the biggest losers after WWII.

Wulfaz
Sunday, October 9th, 2016, 03:06 PM
The large problem that the bolsheviks have droven out the most of Germans from Prussia and Silesia, and there are not enough Germans that they can fight for an autonomy.

Salsa
Sunday, October 9th, 2016, 10:36 PM
True, East Prussia is where my grandparents come from. I have visited Olsztyn (Allenstein) a couple of times actually. I must say the rural area is beautiful and sometimes wonder how it would be to live there if not for the war.

Untersberger
Sunday, October 16th, 2016, 09:35 PM
English is part of the Germanic family of languages and therefore 'Allenstein' is the correct way to write the name of the town via English language usage.

It is only the usual BS of Political Correctness that anyone who speaks a Germanic language would use the Slavic version of the name which is 'Olsztyn'.

I have had this discussion with a Pole at work and he actually agreed with me that insistence to use the Slavic place names is very politically motivated and part of the post-WW2 anti-Germany crusade.

Salsa
Sunday, October 16th, 2016, 09:47 PM
I don't care being politically correct, I just used the present official name. Even in English I don't say München, but Munich. Also should I say Londinium instead of London because it was a Roman town?
But I know what you mean and I agree.

Bernatowicz
Sunday, October 23rd, 2016, 11:58 PM
English is part of the Germanic family of languages and therefore 'Allenstein' is the correct way to write the name of the town via English language usage.

It is only the usual BS of Political Correctness that anyone who speaks a Germanic language would use the Slavic version of the name which is 'Olsztyn'.

I have had this discussion with a Pole at work and he actually agreed with me that insistence to use the Slavic place names is very politically motivated and part of the post-WW2 anti-Germany crusade.

Not 100% true. I agree with Salsa though. The expulsion was very wrong and 100% unethical, albeit the current towns/cities in former East Prussia and Eastern Germany have new names and their new names should be acknowledged: for the sake of ignorance.