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White Iceland
Thursday, April 6th, 2006, 08:15 AM
I consider myself an outsider/non-conformist, so one of the things that makes the Schwarze Sonne myth attractive to me is its obscurity. But it is one thing to be contrary and rebellious as youths often are, and finding yourself old and still clinging to underground beliefs.

I often wonder how many people are fit to follow a Black Sun path? Is it necessary to be schooled in mysticism and ritual? Does it require obssession and fanaticism? Or will it one day be the basis of a fairly well-recognized spiritual system?

Most Black Sun adherents are also fans of heavy metal music. Its dark ruthless nature appeals to the same resistant spirit that drives aggressive music. Without being "scene specific" is there an element of the Black Sun that would attract a large following of people who are simply disgusted with the way we find the world today and seek to summon renewal through destruction? Reduce the standing corrupt institutions to ashes so that a great spiritual Phoenix may rise from the ashes!

As cliché as that last statement sounds, isn't there some sincerity in it that we find attractive? And haven't a dozen or more popular rock bands cashed in on such outwardly appearing nihilistic attitudes? The old FTW (F*** the World) approach to rock and roll?

I had a conversation recently with another aging rocker who is not of our racial persuasion. We talked about Black Sabbath and their song of the same title. He said that it was perhaps the most dark, forboding and sinister (rather mainstream) song he had ever heard until Black Hole Sun by Soundgarden. With its chorus of "won't you come" he said he hears in that song a sort of Black Mass calling on otherworldly forces to wipe the slate clean... a dark summoning.

Soundgarden and Black Sabbath may be a bit too pop for today's "real" black metal fans, but the popularity or even commercial success of such a concept doesn't make it a bad thing.

After this conversation I went looking around the net for fans' interpretations of Black Hole Sun. Some simply saw the lyrics as an invitation to Apocalypse. Those who embraced it seemed to have been the same sort of fed up folks as I believe could ultimately relate to our Schwarze Sonne, even bearing a similar name.

Did Soundgarden know anything of the Black Sun? Apparently there is a sculpture in Seattle, Washington by the name of Black Hole Sun. There is also a Seattle sculpture named Soundgarden, from which the band took their name. Perhaps the lyrics were written by singer Chris Cornell reflecting on the dreary, rainy weather while sitting in a park in Seattle. But perhaps the more serious message a lot of folks interpret there make this an appropriate song for striking up a Black Sun conversation with someone new to the subject... Black Sun missionary work if you will.

White Iceland
Thursday, April 6th, 2006, 08:28 AM
I just looked up the sculpture said to have inspired the Soundgarden song and found this:

http://filelibrary.myaasite.com/Content/5/5209/11364519.jpg

Black Sun

Isamu Noguchi's "Black Sun" is located at the Seattle Asian Art Museum in Volunteer Park. The granite sculpture was installed was carved in Japan and installed in place in 1969.

This landmark is said to be the inspiration for Soundgarden's "Black Hole Sun".

Also of interest, the disc design from the Soundgarden album Badmotorfinger:

http://home.att.net/~grungehistory/BadMotorFinger.jpg

Dr. Solar Wolff
Thursday, April 6th, 2006, 08:48 AM
Well, I am a really aging rocker but I didn't come to the Black Sun through music, but through research into energy.

Some Europeans have educated some American musicians into some aspects of the BS but I doubt if their introduction is very extensive. I wouldn't be surprised if people in groups like Blood Axis knew a thing or two but the repository of knowlege concering the BS is definately the young Europeans looking for alternative answers, musicians and nonmusicians.

Siegfried
Thursday, April 6th, 2006, 09:29 AM
the Soundgarden song

This thread inspired me to play that song again. Here are the lyrics:

In my eyes
Indisposed
In disguise
As no one knows
Hides the face
Lies the snake
The sun
In my disgrace
Boiling heat
Summer Stench
'Neath the black
The sky looks dead
Call my name
Through the cream
And I'll hear you
Scream again

(Chorus)
Black hole sun
Won't you come
And wash away the rain
Black hole sun
Won't you come
Won't you come
Won't you come
Won't you come

Stuttering
Cold and damp
Steal the warm wind
Tired friend
Times are gone
For honest men
And sometimes Far too long
For snakes
In my shoes
Walking sleep
And my youth
I pray to keep
Heaven send
Hell away
No one sings
Like you
Anymore

Chorus x2
Won't you come (Black hole sun, black hole sun) x4

Hang my head
Drown my fear
Till you all just
Disappear

Chorus x3

Won't u come (Black hole sun, Black hole sun) x7

Cidron
Thursday, April 6th, 2006, 10:04 AM
The Black Sun has nothing to do with rock. It has to do with and concerns everything.

The Black Sun has nothing to do with anything dark, evil, melancholic, or sinister, Despite its name.

It pains me to see how many people do not know or are ignorant of the power and truth that is the Black Sun and how slow everyone is to hopping onto the train.

And as for "mainstream Black Sun-ism"... If you value your life, Don't go talking about the Black Sun openly in western society anytime soon. ;)

Siegfried
Thursday, April 6th, 2006, 12:47 PM
The Black Sun has nothing to do with rock.

I agree Soundgarden probably knows little if anything about the Black Sun, and the lyrics are not in any way helpful to learn about the idea.

Siegfried
Thursday, April 6th, 2006, 01:01 PM
It pains me to see how many people do not know or are ignorant of the power and truth that is the Black Sun and how slow everyone is to hopping onto the train.

Could you perhaps offer some explanation or refer to some books/websites that will take some of that ignorance away? :) On a side note: did you post at The Northern European forum as "Xantochroid"?

White Iceland
Thursday, April 6th, 2006, 07:51 PM
I agree that this topic does little to add any real understanding of these mysteries. I don't think something so sacred belongs on a T-shirt or a record album. I made an appointment to have the Wewelsburg design tattooed a few years ago and the artist skipped out on me at the last minute. It gave me time to rethink the idea and I decided not to have it done. It isn't some cheap pop icon. I have the same respect for the runes.

On the other hand, I value any related discussion and don't have much confidence in people who pose like they know so much more about it than folks like myself who have actually travelled, lived and studied in search of this ideal for some years.

White Iceland
Friday, April 7th, 2006, 04:59 AM
The growing European neofolk movement is doing much to fuel interest in the Black Sun. See this graphic for an upcoming event:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~eresh/plaatjes/triumvirat2.jpg

White Iceland
Friday, April 7th, 2006, 11:37 PM
Since Noguchi's sculpture Black Sun came up in this thread quite unintentionally, I will include the following interesting notes on the mysterious work which appears on a 2004 US stamp.
---
http://www.usps.com/communications/news/images/04stamps/04_noguchi37_d.jpg
http://www.stampprof.com/cp/cp711.jpg[/URL]
"Black Sun, created during the 1960s, suggests the sculptor's fascination with ancient temples."

http://www.noguchi.org/images/blacksun1.jpg

http://www.noguchi.org/blacksun.htm
[URL="http://www.noguchi.org/images/blacksun1.jpg"] (http://www.stampprof.com/cp/cp711.jpg)

Prince Eugen
Sunday, April 9th, 2006, 08:23 PM
That story reminds me the early Black Metal years a lot of bands addopted NS insignia maybe they were attracked by the ''evil'' side of NS!Ofcourse all those craps have nothing to do with the NS!
All that symbols have an esoteric metaphysic value and i hate to see stupid people to use that just to provoke!

Cole Nidray
Sunday, April 9th, 2006, 08:27 PM
Better photo of the Black Sun sculpture at Puget Sound.

nicholas
Sunday, April 9th, 2006, 08:37 PM
Western culture takes anything with meaning and makes it the masses dirty little whore.

Prince Eugen
Sunday, April 9th, 2006, 08:39 PM
Western culture takes anything with meaning and makes it the masses dirty little whore.
That's the sad true!

Thulean Imperial Inquisitor
Saturday, April 15th, 2006, 05:24 AM
More pics of the above mentioned sculpture.


http://www.asylumarchives.com/asylumarchiveswebsiteimages/fineartblacksun01large.jpg

http://lisey.typepad.com/photos/seattle/seattle_conservatory.jpg


A British Heavy Metal band is named Order of the Black Sun. Check out the logo in their trailer, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IjLAiRDanc&search=Black%20Sun) it seems to be a modified version of an N-S logo.


http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9704/ootbs1ju.jpg


Black Sun seems to be a popular title for music festivals and other related activities. The following pic has strange colours though.


http://www.alessiocarnassale.com/BLACK%20SUN%20FESTIVAL.jpg


Another.



http://blacksun-festival.com/BSF_06_banner.gif






Another.


http://www.blacksun-festival.com/2005/blacksun_r3_c2.jpg


http://www.sonicksorcery.com/images/blacksun_thumb.jpg


A disco club :jeer


http://www.blacksundiscoclub.it/immagini/black-new.jpg



Inade | Aldebaran

The masters of Black Ambient! "Aldebaran" - the black sun of the secret knowledge. This work focuses on the German Vril society myths of 'Aldebaran', from which universal spirituality is said to originate. One hour of immense walls of dark, brooding atmospherics, pulsating anthems of the universal power, mixing with themes of heritage and history, The ultimate document of dark moving ambient. CD album in beautiful, full colour, double foldout digipack.

http://www.coldspring.co.uk/Covers2/csr13cd.jpg

Wjatscheslaw
Saturday, April 15th, 2006, 05:41 AM
Good job, Thulean!

...It would be great horrow if Black Sun become some day "mainstream"...

Black Sun is a very ancient methaphorical concept; the meaning may turn out to be different.


------
(Disco :D I play Flashpoint Operations listening to Disco :D )

Dr. Solar Wolff
Sunday, April 23rd, 2006, 05:07 AM
More pics of the above mentioned sculpture.


http://www.asylumarchives.com/asylumarchiveswebsiteimages/fineartblacksun01large.jpg

http://lisey.typepad.com/photos/seattle/seattle_conservatory.jpg


A British Heavy Metal band is named Order of the Black Sun. Check out the logo in their trailer, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IjLAiRDanc&search=Black%20Sun) it seems to be a modified version of an N-S logo.


http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9704/ootbs1ju.jpg


Black Sun seems to be a popular title for music festivals and other related activities. The following pic has strange colours though.


http://www.alessiocarnassale.com/BLACK%20SUN%20FESTIVAL.jpg


Another.



http://blacksun-festival.com/BSF_06_banner.gif






Another.


http://www.blacksun-festival.com/2005/blacksun_r3_c2.jpg


http://www.sonicksorcery.com/images/blacksun_thumb.jpg


A disco club :jeer


http://www.blacksundiscoclub.it/immagini/black-new.jpg




http://www.coldspring.co.uk/Covers2/csr13cd.jpg






Where is the Black Sun Festival II going to be?

Cole Nidray
Sunday, April 23rd, 2006, 06:10 AM
Where is the Black Sun Festival II going to be?
New Haven, Connecticut.

http://www.blacksun-festival.com/

Cole Nidray
Monday, April 24th, 2006, 03:05 AM
http://www.space1999.net/moonbase99/blacksun.htm

Wjatscheslaw
Tuesday, May 2nd, 2006, 12:11 AM
Centre is everywhere.

Quote Thule Iseland

I consider myself an outsider/non-conformist, so one of the things that makes the Schwarze Sonne myth attractive to me is its obscurity. But it is one thing to be contrary and rebellious as youths often are, and finding yourself old and still clinging to underground beliefs. Mainstream - if suddenly all which calls themself "mainstream" it would keenly desire to commit mass suicide act, whether and you, who is not relating yourself to above-said, also should follow them? Obviously not, one shouldn’t


I often wonder how many people are fit to follow a Black Sun path? As an alchimical proverb says: "ours gold is not the gold of crowd"


Is it necessary to be schooled in mysticism and ritual? I think Black San rather expresses political-worldview intuitive-negative attitude towards to the most common/expanded religious concepts, than something formalized.


Does it require obssession and fanaticism? No, in no case fanatism.


Or will it one day be the basis of a fairly well-recognized spiritual system? Possibly so…will be some day.





Centre is everywhere, whether one realize it?