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desibaba
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 02:49 PM
Check out Karan Kapoor. He is an indian citizen(of india) who has an indic father and a british (keltic nordic) mother. What would you guys classify him as ?

http://www.junglee.org.in/karan.html

http://www.indiafm.com/photos/karankapoor/index.shtml

The Blond Beast
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 02:59 PM
Check out Karan Kapoor. He is an indian citizen(of india) who has an indic father and a british (keltic nordic) mother. What would you guys classify him as ?

http://www.junglee.org.in/karan.html

http://www.indiafm.com/photos/karankapoor/index.shtml

That's something! This man appears totally Caucasoid.

desibaba
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 03:04 PM
That's something! This man appears totally Caucasoid.

Check out his parents. His father is a typical indic of the northwestern regions. His mother is a very average looking keltic nordic type of britain.

http://www.junglee.org.in/shashik.html

Loki
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 03:05 PM
Indeed... quite remarkable.

desibaba
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 03:07 PM
Indeed... quite remarkable.

Here is an indic dude who is fully indic on his mother and father's side but looks really european

http://www.fashionindia.net/designers/rohit_bal/

Prodigal Son
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 04:18 PM
Check out Karan Kapoor. He is an indian citizen(of india) who has an indic father and a british (keltic nordic) mother. What would you guys classify him as ?

http://www.junglee.org.in/karan.html

http://www.indiafm.com/photos/karankapoor/index.shtml

I'd 'classify' him as a 'mongrel'.

Awar
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 05:16 PM
The first guy looks like an Nordic-Alpine mix, perhaps even a little Brunn.

Russian Patriot, you're not helping this discussion very much.

Prodigal Son
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 05:18 PM
The first guy looks like an Nordic-Alpine mix, perhaps even a little Brunn.

Russian Patriot, you're not helping this discussion very much.

I am pointing out the fact that mixed individuals can have European phenotypes. I've seen a mullatto with curly light brown hair and green eyes. If you want to accept people such as these as your kin, that's fine. I don't.

Awar
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 05:42 PM
Please, tell me, if you saw this man on a street, without knowledge that he's from India, would you think he's not your kin?

Let's keep it a little more scientific here, I don't think this man is a mongrel, there is absolutely no reason for me to think so. Maybe this man is from Britain, and has no connection to India whatsoever, maybe Desibaba posted his pics to prove 'someone's' ignorance on the subject.

Prodigal Son
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 05:51 PM
Please, tell me, if you saw this man on a street, without knowledge that he's from India, would you think he's not your kin?

I assess who and who is not my kin based on genetics and culture, not a couple of pictures.


Let's keep it a little more scientific here,

Yes, lets. Someone with half Indian ancestry can't 'scientifically' be a "Brunn" (or whatever).


I don't think this man is a mongrel, there is absolutely no reason for me to think so.

Half-Indian half-European = racially mixed.

Awar
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 05:59 PM
1. You just did.
2. Why can't he be?
3. India is not a race, as Europe isn't.
There are Alpinids in India, just like there are Saamis in Europe.

desibaba
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 05:59 PM
I assess who and who is not my kin based on genetics and culture, not a couple of pictures.



Yes, lets. Someone with half Indian ancestry can't 'scientifically' be a "Brunn" (or whatever).



Half-Indian half-European = racially mixed.


Well, from what I have read Russians are genetically distinct from western slavs like Poles and Czechs, let alone western europeans like the British. A large number of Russians I have met have had almond eyes. The individual I posted looks much more mainline American (ie WASP) than do many russians like zhirinovsky, putin, stalian (ok he was a georgian), and lenin. He looks more american than say a gorbachev and that mongol Yeltsin too.

Prodigal Son
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 06:02 PM
1. You just did.
2. Why can't he be?

Because he's only half-European genetically. Can a half-Negroid be Nordic?


3. India is not a race, as Europe isn't.

Indians, as a group are sharply distinct phenotypically and genetically from all Europeans.


There are Alpinids in India, just like there are Saamis in Europe.

These 'Alpinids' are much closer to other Hindus that they are to Europeans. How hard is it to understand that phenotype alone is not a foolproof indicator of ancestry?

Prodigal Son
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 06:06 PM
Well, from what I have read Russians are genetically distinct from western slavs like Poles and Czechs, let alone western europeans like the British.

Russians are virtually identical to Poles genetically. The distinction between them and NW Europeans stems from the fact that Russians have the largest amount of Kurganid (Aryan) ancestry in Europe.

A large number of Russians I have met have had almond eyes.

A large number of the 'Russians' you have met are Jews. In any case, your completely anecdotal experience is irrelevant.


The individual I posted looks much more mainline American (ie WASP) than do many russians like zhirinovsky,

Jew.


putin

I disagree. Putin could pass for any Northern European.


stalian (ok he was a georgian),

Why are you mentioning him then?


and lenin.

1/4 Jewish 1/4 Kalmyck mongrel. Keep your spectacular examples of 'Russians' coming.


He looks more american than say a gorbachev and that mongol Yeltsin too.

Yeltsin is not a 'Mongol'.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/images/yeltsin/galyeltsin1.jpg

In any case, you're obviously not intelligent enough to grasp this, but phenotype is not equivalent to race. The fact that a mixed-race individual has a Europid phenotype doesn't magically erase 50% non-European ancestry.

Awar
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 06:12 PM
Because he's only half-European genetically. Can a half-Negroid be Nordic?

Nordic is a phenotype, so, yes, if this racial mix produces a Nordic-phenotype, he is a nordic.




Indians, as a group are sharply distinct phenotypically and genetically from all Europeans.

Yes, but Indian genotype is much closer to Russian, as are most Indian languages. Hindus and Russians have more common DNA than Russians and Portuguese, French, Brits etc. There are quite a few genetic distance calculators out there, pick one.




These 'Alpinids' are much closer to other Hindus that they are to Europeans. How hard is it to understand that phenotype alone is not a foolproof indicator of ancestry?

So, why are we clinging to phenotype here.....because we saw this man's photos, not his DNA. We are limited to phenotype because of the nature of data we get, saying that a certain man is a 'mongrel' just because someone on the internet said he is of mixed ancestry isn't quite intelligent, is it... this could also be a trick, to make you sound ignorant. This IS the internet.
So, please, when you see a photo, classify the man according to what you see, not according to some suspicious info.

Prodigal Son
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 06:14 PM
Desibaba, learn a bit about your genetic heritage.

Link :Indians are closer to Africans than Europeans (http://forums.originaldissent.com/showthread.php?t=6632).

Prodigal Son
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 06:16 PM
Nordic is a phenotype, so, yes, if this racial mix produces a Nordic-phenotype, he is a nordic.

I was under the impression that Nordic was a racial type? Do you see phenotype and race as equivalent?



Yes, but Indian genotype is much closer to Russian, as are most Indian languages. Hindus and Russians have more common DNA than Russians and Portuguese, French, Brits etc. There are quite a few genetic distance calculators out there, pick one.

That statement is misleading. Russians and caste Hindus share haplotypes only on the Y-chromosome, as a result of the Aryan invasion of India which was carried out by males of Southern Russian origin. The difference is, Russians have Aryan and Finnic mtDNA and autosomes, whereas Hindu mtDNA is predominantly of proto-Mongoloid/Australoid origin (as a result of Aryan males taking Dravidian females as concubines). In fact, only the highest caste Hindus have predominantly Aryan Y-chromosomes.

desibaba
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 06:21 PM
Russians are virtually identical to Poles genetically. The distinction between them and NW Europeans stems from the fact that Russians have the largest amount of Kurganid (Aryan) ancestry in Europe.


A large number of the 'Russians' you have met are Jews. In any case, your completely anecdotal experience is irrelevant.



Jew.



I disagree. Putin could pass for any Northern European.



Why are you mentioning him then?



1/4 Jewish 1/4 Kalmyck mongrel. Keep your spectacular examples of 'Russians' coming.



Yeltsin is not a 'Mongol'.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/images/yeltsin/galyeltsin1.jpg

In any case, you're obviously not intelligent enough to grasp this, but phenotype is not equivalent to race. The fact that a mixed-race individual has a Europid phenotype doesn't magically erase 50% non-European ancestry.




Go to : http://www.racearchives.com/calc/

Click on data tables for : Unique-Haplotype Frequencies in 60 Populations and 8 Geographic Regions (this is under Y chromosome analysis). Go to the profile for Europeans-Russians.

You will find that the genetic distance between Russians and Indians in LESS than the distance between Russians and other Europeans. So while a large number of russians have a european phenotype, they may not be europeans genetically (by your own argument). Anyway comrade, welcome to the club ;)
I always knew Muscovites and Calcuttans were brothers under the skin :)

The genetic argument trumps the pic of butt-ugly Yeltsin u posted. I was reading that many films of the Kapoor family in India (thats the family Karan Kapoor the guy whose pic I posted ) were very famous in Russia.

Prodigal Son
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 06:22 PM
Go to : http://www.racearchives.com/calc/

Click on data tables for : Unique-Haplotype Frequencies in 60 Populations and 8 Geographic Regions (this is under Y chromosome analysis). Go to the profile for Europeans-Russians.

You're not very smart, are you? You do know that Y-chromosome gene markers are not equivalent to autosomal DNA?

Prodigal Son
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 06:27 PM
You will find that the genetic distance between Russians and Indians in LESS than the distance between Russians and other Europeans.

That's a blatant lie. Russians are closest genetically to Poles:
http://www.network54.com/Realm/anthro/discussion4.jpg

And fall well within the European cluster, even based on Y-chromosome haplotypes alone:
http://www.angeltowns.com/members/racialreal/plot2.jpg

The distintion between Russians and NW Europeans arises from the fact that Russians are of predominantly Aryan ancestry, while most NW Europeans descend from the Upper Paleolithic inhabitants of the Iberia refuge.

desibaba
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 06:36 PM
That's a blatant lie. Russians are closest genetically to Poles:
http://www.network54.com/Realm/anthro/discussion4.jpg

And fall well within the European cluster, even based on Y-chromosome haplotypes alone:
http://www.angeltowns.com/members/racialreal/plot2.jpg

The distintion between Russians and NW Europeans arises from the fact that Russians are of predominantly Aryan ancestry, while most NW Europeans descend from the Upper Paleolithic inhabitants of the Iberia refuge.


Indian mtDNA is of asian origin in the lower castes and increasingly european as one goes up the caste ranks into the North of India. (http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/apr22/snt1.asp)

Russians have smaller amounts of mtDNA from the asians (mongol rapes) but it is significantly higher than other europeans. Overall genetic distance between Indians and Russians is still nevertheless smaller compared to overall genetic distance between russians and central europeans.

You know it in your heart mr Russian friend :) Admit it...you surreptitiously slurp down your curry when no one watches....admit it ! ;)

Prodigal Son
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 06:41 PM
Indian mtDNA is of asian origin in the lower castes and increasingly european as one goes up the caste ranks into the North of India.

High caste Hindus have male Russian ancestors. So what?


Russians have smaller amounts of mtDNA from the asians (mongol rapes)

No, Mongoloid mtDNA in Russians is of Finnish origin. That's why Southern and Central Russia which were depopulated by the Mongols have 0% Mongoloid mtDNA, while Volga and NE Russian groups have 1-4% Mongoloid mtDNA.


but it is significantly higher than other europeans.

LOL. Russians have a grand total of 1.25% Mongoloid mtDNA. Not much more than Germans, less than Finns.


Overall genetic distance between Indians and Russians is still nevertheless smaller compared to overall genetic distance between russians and central europeans.

Please provide some autosomal DNA studies as evidence for this claim.

cosmocreator
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 08:02 PM
He is mixed and wouldn't be acceptable to me. People like him would have to prove they are unmixed.

desibaba
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 08:07 PM
He is mixed and wouldn't be acceptable to me. People like him would have to prove they are unmixed.

In a world where forged documents are more than easily available, the "white man on the street" would be more inclined to question your ancestry than Karan Kapoor's. Based on physical appearance, and even on his indic father's appearance (which is med) he would seem to be much more typically european than yourself. Of course a mixed person of congoid ancestry with light hair and eyes and skin will likely retain a congoid facial structure and features along with a certain congoid body build. Karan Kapoor is a full blooded caucasian and is half european. I think dark europeans get somewhat insecure when a lighter person who is partially or completely of non-european ancestry "out-whites" them. This may explain the strident tone of many marginal europeans like yourself and Rienzi and the "Russian Patriot".

cosmocreator
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 08:10 PM
In a world where forged documents are more than easily available, the "white man on the street" would be more inclined to question your ancestry than Karan Kapoor's.


Well maybe that's because Asians like you haven't seen enough Europeans. My ancestry is totally Western European.

I'm thinking there needs to be some ethnic cleansing at this board real soon.

desibaba
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 08:18 PM
Well maybe that's because Asians like you haven't seen enough Europeans. My ancestry is totally Western European.

I'm thinking there needs to be some ethnic cleansing at this board real soon.

Congratulations on your 100% western european ancestry.

As an "asian" living in the United States, with plenty of euro-American acquaintances and friends and having dated a significant number of euro-americans I am quite well acquainted with the physical appearance of Europeans. I think the fact that one is of "western european ancestry" is quite pointless if you are physically indistinguishable from an afghan or an albanian. The light karan kapoor type is much more chracteristic of the north western europe than your physical type. In terms of phenotype Karan Kapoor is an obvious Northwestern European. In terms of genotype, his father is an indic from the northwestern provinces of India which means he has caucasian Y-chromosomal DNA and his keltic nordic mother means he has the caucasian mtDNA too. I don't want to get personal, but this individual represents the rare western european physical type (in genotype and phenotype) much better than yourself.

cosmocreator
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 08:25 PM
Congratulations on your 100% western european ancestry.

As an "asian" living in the United States, with plenty of euro-American acquaintances and friends and having dated a significant number of euro-americans I am quite well acquainted with the physical appearance of Europeans. I think the fact that one is of "western european ancestry" is quite pointless if you are physically indistinguishable from an afghan or an albanian. The light karan kapoor type is much more chracteristic of the north western europe than your physical type. In terms of phenotype Karan Kapoor is an obvious Northwestern European. In terms of genotype, his father is an indic from the northwestern provinces of India which means he has caucasian Y-chromosomal DNA and his keltic nordic mother means he has the caucasian mtDNA too. I don't want to get personal, but this individual represents the rare western european physical type (in genotype and phenotype) much better than yourself.

As you will notice, you are now banned forever. You really have no place at this board. You obviously have no interest, and can have no interest, in preserving European racial types.

alpinidwarrior
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 08:47 PM
Check out Karan Kapoor. He is an indian citizen(of india) who has an indic father and a british (keltic nordic) mother. What would you guys classify him as ?

http://www.junglee.org.in/karan.html

http://www.indiafm.com/photos/karankapoor/index.shtml


Yes, He is definitely a Nordic. I am of Austrian origin and have a cousin who looks exactly like he does. I am amazed that white nordics still survive in India. Anyway, racial background is an individual thing. Just because someone is an iranian or hindoo doesn't rule him/her out outright. Likewise, just because someone has had his/her ancestors live in europe for many generations does not make him a member of the race. I have seen mongolized folks in europe with broad heads and small dark eyes and I would not be inclined to count them as my brothers. This hindoo aryan would definitely get my respect.

alpinidwarrior
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 08:53 PM
I think the fellow desibaba posted is definitely a white nordic who would be welcomed by any sane kinsman. I am amazed that white nordics still survive in India. Racial classification is a case by case matter and being a hindoo does not rule you out automatically and being a person whose ancestors have lived in europe for several generations does not make one a member of the race either. I would much rather call a real magnificent specimen like the hindoo nordic a brother than a stocky "european" with dark pigmentation and small eyes. The hindoo nordic looks like one of my cousins incidentally. I am quite sure however that 99% of india's population is in no way white.

Prodigal Son
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 10:11 PM
Yes, He is definitely a Nordic. I am of Austrian origin and have a cousin who looks exactly like he does. I am amazed that white nordics still survive in India. Anyway, racial background is an individual thing. Just because someone is an iranian or hindoo doesn't rule him/her out outright. Likewise, just because someone has had his/her ancestors live in europe for many generations does not make him a member of the race. I have seen mongolized folks in europe with broad heads and small dark eyes and I would not be inclined to count them as my brothers. This hindoo aryan would definitely get my respect.

"White Nordics" do not survive in India. You obviously missed the part about the man being 1/2 English.

cosmocreator
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 10:12 PM
I think the fellow desibaba posted is definitely a white nordic who would be welcomed by any sane kinsman. I am amazed that white nordics still survive in India. Racial classification is a case by case matter and being a hindoo does not rule you out automatically and being a person whose ancestors have lived in europe for several generations does not make one a member of the race either. I would much rather call a real magnificent specimen like the hindoo nordic a brother than a stocky "european" with dark pigmentation and small eyes. The hindoo nordic looks like one of my cousins incidentally. I am quite sure however that 99% of india's population is in no way white.


This guy is 50% non-"white." Even if he has children with a purely European woman, some of the kids will be Indic looking as will some of their grandchildren. The guy is not acceptable.

Awar
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 11:02 PM
If the info is right.......but I wonder if this is a part of the forum where we find people acceptable or not, or a classification forum.

Anyway, you know he's half-hindu, that doesn't necessarily mean that he is not a son of some high-caste 100% Nordic man and a Brittish woman, do you.

Nordischer Junge
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 11:04 PM
he is nordic, even if he can have non nordic descents, he is nordic..

Prodigal Son
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 11:38 PM
Anyway, you know he's half-hindu, that doesn't necessarily mean that he is not a son of some high-caste 100% Nordic man and a Brittish woman, do you.

You can follow the link to see what hs father looks like. He most definitely is not anything approaching a Nordic.

Furthermore, there is no such thing as a "100% Nordic Hindu", high-caste or otherwise. Even the highest caste Hindus are predominantly Australoid on their maternal lineages. This may help explain why the lightest Northern Indian Brahmins have only 12% light eyes and 0% blond hair.

Prodigal Son
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 11:42 PM
Even if he has children with a purely European woman, some of the kids will be Indic looking as will some of their grandchildren.

Precisely.

alpinidwarrior
Thursday, October 23rd, 2003, 12:15 AM
NO ! Nordic characteristics are recessive. He must have ONLY alleles for light hair and light eyes. His skin is white so he has no alleles for dark skin. He can only pass on alleles for light coloring....if he mates with a nordic woman, the kids will be nordic and will not have the dark hair or eyes or skin of an indic. If this hindoo possessed any of those indic coloration genes he would show it.

Prodigal Son
Thursday, October 23rd, 2003, 01:44 AM
NO ! Nordic characteristics are recessive. He must have ONLY alleles for light hair and light eyes. His skin is white so he has no alleles for dark skin. He can only pass on alleles for light coloring....if he mates with a nordic woman, the kids will be nordic and will not have the dark hair or eyes or skin of an indic. If this hindoo possessed any of those indic coloration genes he would show it.


Skin color, and other phenotypic traits are inherited polygenetically. Thus, genetic atavism, i.e. grandchildren showing traits that children of a miscegenative relationship do not show, is common. Please learn something about genetics before making yourself look like a complete ignoramus.

I see that the retard invasion continues...

ScotchTape
Thursday, October 23rd, 2003, 01:50 AM
i would have to agree with desibaba on this one.
This guy has a blue eyed grandfather from his dad's side. His uncles have hazel eyes. His cousins have blue eyes and these are all from his father's indian side.
I posted pictures of the kapoor family on some other thread a couple of days ago and you can see they are clearly white skinned.

Here is another half indian(his indian dad was over 6 foot tall with hazel eyes) and a british mother. How would you classify him? I find him ugly but thats besides the point.

http://in.yimg.com/i/in/mov/absolutemv/20030822/3691495449.jpg


http://www.gmagazine.com/magazine/august2003/images/Adam12.jpg

Here he is with his mother and a friend.

http://www.gmagazine.com/magazine/august2003/images/Adam-Bedi-4.jpg


his dad

http://bollyvista.com/data/image/picture530_1.jpg

Prodigal Son
Thursday, October 23rd, 2003, 01:52 AM
I guess you consider this half Indonesian half-Dutch mongrel your 'kin', huh, alpinidwarrior?

http://www.geocities.com/missu1111/markapaul1.jpg

Or how about this half Chinese, half Jew?
http://www.people.com.cn/media/200110/22/NewsMedia_136925.jpg

Vojvoda
Thursday, October 23rd, 2003, 01:54 AM
i would have to agree with desibaba on this one.
This guy has a blue eyed grandfather from his dad's side. His uncles have hazel eyes. His cousins have blue eyes and these are all from his father's indian side.
I posted pictures of the kapoor family on some other thread a couple of days ago and you can see they are clearly white skinned.

Here is another half indian(his indian dad was over 6 foot tall with hazel eyes) and a british mother. How would you classify him? I find him ugly but thats besides the point.

Not a Europid IMO.

Awar
Thursday, October 23rd, 2003, 02:35 AM
Hehe......his father looks more European than him :)

The half-chinese half-jew looks Sub-Nordic, have you ever wondered if the people who claim to have non-white ancestry are actually doing this to be trendy?

Kevin Costner claims he has Amerindian blood, does it show in his phenotype?....NO! Perhaps he could be lying, or this Amerindian ancestry is invisible, therefore irrelevant for a phenotype classification.

The genotype researches are still under way, becoming more accurate daily, perhaps one day we can be certain if someone has 'miscegenated' or not, before you show to us the genotype of each person you claim to be a 'mongrel' don't be so quick to judge.

If you were to see this picture with a caption that says: Douglas Anderson
Would you doubt his ancestry for even a second?

Awar
Thursday, October 23rd, 2003, 03:21 AM
I'll try to prove my point.

Classify this man:

Evolved
Thursday, October 23rd, 2003, 03:55 AM
http://www.khojhyderabad.com/Fashion/Models/Male/?dir=Karan+Kapoor

His lips are too big, otherwise he looks Nordish and were it not for that I would say he's attractive. He reminds me of 1/2 Jewish Harrison Ford a bit.

His father is predominantly Mediterranean with some Australoid, but not as much as typical Indians.

http://www.junglee.org.in/shashi.jpg

Evolved
Thursday, October 23rd, 2003, 04:02 AM
http://www.gmagazine.com/magazine/august2003/images/Adam-Bedi-4.jpg
Yehudi! Curry is kosher, right? :jew

He looks a bit like....
http://images.google.com/images?q=david+berkowitz&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search :D

cosmocreator
Thursday, October 23rd, 2003, 06:13 AM
Hehe......his father looks more European than him :)

The half-chinese half-jew looks Sub-Nordic, have you ever wondered if the people who claim to have non-white ancestry are actually doing this to be trendy?

Kevin Costner claims he has Amerindian blood, does it show in his phenotype?....NO! Perhaps he could be lying, or this Amerindian ancestry is invisible, therefore irrelevant for a phenotype classification.

The genotype researches are still under way, becoming more accurate daily, perhaps one day we can be certain if someone has 'miscegenated' or not, before you show to us the genotype of each person you claim to be a 'mongrel' don't be so quick to judge.

If you were to see this picture with a caption that says: Douglas Anderson
Would you doubt his ancestry for even a second?

Stop trying to rationalize the undesirables. If they are acceptable to you, then go live with them but don't try and convince us that they belong in Europe.

Loki
Thursday, October 23rd, 2003, 07:48 AM
I don't think this debate is about the person's acceptability...

Phenotypically, this person is Europid. Perhaps the only giveaway as to his "foreign" ancestry, are his thicker than usual lips.

Fact is, that northern, high-caste Indians are overwhelmingly Europid themselves (even genetically), falling within the Irano-Afghan classification system. (Baker calls them Nordindids)

Now if such an Europid northern Indian procreates with a Nordish British woman, the offspring would be, unsurprisingly, very much European-looking. This is significantly different from a Europid-Mongolid hybrid, or a Europid-Negroid hybrid - since both ancestral parties fall within the larger Europid race.

In saying this I am not advocating that Indian men and British women should now go and procreate. This issue has not been raised yet in the debate. And even if it had been, my answer would have been "no".

In my view, *some* Irano-Afghans could be more racially acceptable than many Greeks. I have a friend who has a Greek mother and a British father. He has very dark, curly hair, thick lips and his phenotype is suggestive of negroid ancestry...

Nordhammer
Thursday, October 23rd, 2003, 08:02 AM
Now if such an Europid northern Indian procreates with a Nordish British woman, the offspring would be, unsurprisingly, very much European-looking. This is significantly different from a Europid-Mongolid hybrid, or a Europid-Negroid hybrid - since both ancestral parties fall within the larger Europid race.

Not in all cases. Some major-race mixtures can look surprisingly Caucasoid/Europid, despite one of the parents looking obviously not. I have seen many cases of this. Quadroons can look Europid, even European, and go unnoticed as having recent Negroid ancestry, such as Vin Diesel and Jennifer Beals. Vin Diesel is perhaps a little more obvious (although some Mediterraneans will claim him), but Jennifer Beals has passed even among some trained eyes in my forum before I told her ancestry.

So I don't think this similarity in headform is qualification enough to be in our countries and mating with our men/women. Obviously ancestry is very important, not just if someone can pass unnoticed by the majority. As a general standard I would say a half-Indian would not be acceptable, perhaps 1/4 or less. In all cases, think about what would be acceptable for your family and friends, would you be comfortable with it?

Nordhammer
Thursday, October 23rd, 2003, 08:06 AM
http://www.khojhyderabad.com/Fashion/Models/Male/?dir=Karan+Kapoor

His lips are too big, otherwise he looks Nordish and were it not for that I would say he's attractive. He reminds me of 1/2 Jewish Harrison Ford a bit.

His father is predominantly Mediterranean with some Australoid, but not as much as typical Indians.

http://www.junglee.org.in/shashi.jpg

You think this guy looks like Harrison Ford? I don't see that at all. Besides, it's Ford's Irish side that gives him his good looks. :)

Loki
Thursday, October 23rd, 2003, 08:30 AM
As a general standard I would say a half-Indian would not be acceptable, perhaps 1/4 or less. In all cases, think about what would be acceptable for your family and friends, would you be comfortable with it?

I would not be comfortable with any questionable ancestry in my family, or immediate gene pool.

As far as assimilability is concerned, I think a 1/8 (northern, "white") Indian is more assimilable than a 1/16 Mongoloid, or a 1/64 Negroid.

What would you say?

cosmocreator
Thursday, October 23rd, 2003, 10:19 AM
Others know much more about genetics than I do but I think even high caste Indians are closer to other Indians than they are to Europeans. And there closeness is only to a few Europeans, namely Czech and Slovaks, not all Europeans.



I don't think this debate is about the person's acceptability...

Phenotypically, this person is Europid. Perhaps the only giveaway as to his "foreign" ancestry, are his thicker than usual lips.

Fact is, that northern, high-caste Indians are overwhelmingly Europid themselves (even genetically), falling within the Irano-Afghan classification system. (Baker calls them Nordindids)

Now if such an Europid northern Indian procreates with a Nordish British woman, the offspring would be, unsurprisingly, very much European-looking. This is significantly different from a Europid-Mongolid hybrid, or a Europid-Negroid hybrid - since both ancestral parties fall within the larger Europid race.

In saying this I am not advocating that Indian men and British women should now go and procreate. This issue has not been raised yet in the debate. And even if it had been, my answer would have been "no".

In my view, *some* Irano-Afghans could be more racially acceptable than many Greeks. I have a friend who has a Greek mother and a British father. He has very dark, curly hair, thick lips and his phenotype is suggestive of negroid ancestry...

Loki
Thursday, October 23rd, 2003, 10:22 AM
Others know much more about genetics than I do but I think even high caste Indians are closer to other Indians than they are to Europeans. And there closeness is only to a few Europeans, namely Czech and Slovaks, not all Europeans.

Indeed. They seem closest to certain Slavic groups, but have little in common with central and western Europeans.

Tore
Thursday, October 23rd, 2003, 02:49 PM
Others know much more about genetics than I do but I think even high caste Indians are closer to other Indians than they are to Europeans. And there closeness is only to a few Europeans, namely Czech and Slovaks, not all Europeans.

The Highest Caste Indians are closer to Eastern Europeans on their Y-Chromosome, yes.

Their mtDNA is, however, contains a signficant amount of non-Caucasoid gene markers, namely M.

Loki
Thursday, October 23rd, 2003, 02:53 PM
The Highest Caste Indians are closer to Eastern Europeans on their Y-Chromosome, yes.

Their mtDNA is, however, contains a signficant amount of non-Caucasoid gene markers, namely M.

Absolutely... and that is where they are very different from current Europeans. This probably supports the idea that their [white] ancestors were mostly males, who then interbred with the local populace to form a semi-Europid hybrid population.

Awar
Thursday, October 23rd, 2003, 03:02 PM
The previous 'Hindu' I posted is a photomontage of Max Von Sydow. I did it with photoshop in less than 5 minutes.

This is to prove that internet can be very misleading. For all we know, some photos posted here could just be captioned with misleading information, in an attempt to make some members here look ridiculous.

Not very long ago I saw a picture of an Irishman who changed faith to become a Sikh. He's a full-blooded Irish guy from Ireland, and now he wears a big turban and sikh clothing. Had I found his picture and posted it here, I bet there'd be at least a dozen people who would call him a 'mongrel' and thus prove their naivette.

Vojvoda
Thursday, October 23rd, 2003, 03:06 PM
The previous 'Hindu' I posted is a photomontage of Max Von Sydow. I did it with photoshop in less than 5 minutes.

This is to prove that internet can be very misleading. For all we know, some photos posted here could just be captioned with misleading information, in an attempt to make some members here look ridiculous.

Not very long ago I saw a picture of an Irishman who changed faith to become a Sikh. He's a full-blooded Irish guy from Ireland, and now he wears a big turban and sikh clothing. Had I found his picture and posted it here, I bet there'd be at least a dozen people who would call him a 'mongrel' and thus prove their naivette.

AWAR is right, I see his point, pictures can be misleading.Also clothing, facial hair, make-up can make someone look more "western" or "eastern". BTW I knew that was Max Von Sydow!

Prodigal Son
Thursday, October 23rd, 2003, 06:46 PM
Hehe......his father looks more European than him :)

The half-chinese half-jew looks Sub-Nordic, have you ever wondered if the people who claim to have non-white ancestry are actually doing this to be trendy?

Why would anyone claim to be 1/2 Chinese if she weren't? Unlike claims of a 'distant Cherokee grandmother', claims of a Chinese parent can be easily verified. I have to agree with cosmocreator: if you want to rationalize mongrels, that's fine, but keep it to yourself.


If you were to see this picture with a caption that says: Douglas Anderson
Would you doubt his ancestry for even a second?

Yes, I would. There is something about the skin tone, the lips, and the nose shape that to me is suggestive of non-European ancestry.

21wqre2
Wednesday, October 29th, 2003, 12:59 AM
Its interesting some consider Indians non-caucasoid. By definition they are.

cosmocreator
Wednesday, October 29th, 2003, 02:13 AM
Its interesting some consider Indians non-caucasoid. By definition they are.

What's your point? They are Caucasoid but they don't belong in Europe.

Nordhammer
Wednesday, October 29th, 2003, 03:07 AM
Its interesting some consider Indians non-caucasoid. By definition they are.

By what definition?

Perhaps "mixed Caucasoid" may be more appropriate. Some anthros will classify North Africans and East Africans as Caucasoid too, even with dark skin and kinky Negroid hair. :D

21wqre2
Wednesday, October 29th, 2003, 10:02 AM
Im not trying to make a point cosmocreator.
I was merely stating what i have read in the dictionary.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Caucasian

Awar
Wednesday, October 29th, 2003, 10:10 AM
I think that C. Coon also classified East Africans as Caucasoids... which is OK by me.

Darker skin doesn't really say all that much about race.