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Mannerheim
Saturday, March 18th, 2006, 10:09 PM
I wonder why there arent Finland sub-forum?

Recent studies shows that finns are genetically close to european average and very close to swedes genetically.

Finns are also most "cro-magnoid" from the whole world,recent studies shows that too.

In Finland are one of the most biggest number of blue eyed people in the whole world among with other nordic states.

Last "real" blond haired human will be finnish cause here is the greatest number of blond haired habitants in proportion to population.

Finns are germanic tribe just like Franks (http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/WestEurope/Franks.html), Ostrogoths (http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/WestEurope/Ostrogoths.html), Visigoths (http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/WestEurope/Visigoths.html), Burgundians (http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/WestEurope/Burgundians.html) Angles, Saxons, Ostrogoths (http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/WestEurope/Ostrogoths.html), Vandals (http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/WestEurope/Vandals.html) and Lombards (http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/WestEurope/Lombards.html). All they came from east,finns just came here,Finland.Maybe they had their own strange language but their genes are germanic.

Before christianity finns had their own religion exactly the same like in scandinavic mythology,only difference was language,gods were same.

Finns have been in resigned position, throughout its history.Swedish rule and russian rule strated to connest finns more closely together.Reason why finns have been in loverworth is because they had this strange language and their strange forrest habbits "forrest people" and ofcourse the biggest reason is population.In Finland was just some tens of thousands population in 16th century.


Finns have always had this problem that they dont belong to anywhere.We dont want to belong to Russia but to west and scandinavia but even today finns always thinks that what example germans think about them,that which race finns belong in their opinion.Finland is maybe the most pro-german country in the world.

People,just visit in Finland and youll see that in what race we belong.Mostly to nordic but also in eastern baltic.

Simply,Finland belongs to germanic race so add Finland in that list too.

óšinn
Tuesday, May 23rd, 2006, 10:05 PM
Well I don't remember on what page I read, but if you google on finns+germanic or something like that you'll find an intresting article which means that finns are the ancient "quens"/kväner since the norwegian and old norse word for sami is finn, and the old word for finn is quen/kvän. And quen on the other hand is a germanic people. The finnish language is on the other hand an evidence for contact with swedes for more than 1.500 years ago. Take the word "kuningas" for exmaple and compafre it with the Old Scandinavian "kuningaz". It become "konungr" in old norse and then "konungur" in modern icelandic and "kung" in modern finnish. Also kauppa is some ancient loan word, since it would come from the old norse word "kaupa" [köpa].

And one most not forget that swedes and finns is sopmehow mixed up, western finns, have more swedish/nordic blood while eastern finns are more "true finns" and not slavonic russians like many foreigners and even swedes do believe sometimes. Since there are still today a large number of ethnic fins on russian territory it is finns on their areas and not the opposite if you don't count the russian immigrants of course.

I'm a finlandswede but I've made many researches in this subject. Wheather finns are germanic or not. My conlcusion is the following. Ethnically one cannot really know, at least one can say that many finns living in finland today are germanic but are finns a germanic people? Well I don't really know at least some of the ancient finnish tribe most have been germanic, maybe not all but who knows. Finnish-Ugric then,? Well that's the langauge family and the origal East finnish immigrants are believed to have come from Ural, but on the contrary that could be some of the East finns living in russia (speaking russian mostle cause of the russian forcerussisination). By blood are finns germanic? Well it is a bit certain but the fact remains they are neither mongols nor slavonic like some swedes from sweden do believe:D. And some of them are evidently germanic as I said earlier.

But culturally there is no doubt, finns are East Scandinavians culturally and not Western Slavonic.

The sum this article up I will use citate us finlandswedes in the end of the 19th century, when Russia tried to russisinate us.


Svenskar äro vi inte längre, ryssar vilja vi inte bli, låtom oss alltså bli finnar!

About the subforum, if the haven't given Finland a forum of our own I suggest we use the swedish one since you in particular have spoken of the things we have in common.;)

How do hell have we ever been able to share a country if we can't share a subforum?:D

PS Sometimes it is our own fault that people don't count us as a germanic people, I mean i'm a finlandswede of Germanic heritage but I count myself as a finn since I'm a finn culturally and swedes from swedes also count me as a finn. So if being a finn is good for a finlandswede it must be good enough for a true finn:D

PS2 Jos sää et äänestä soinille Mannerheim voit ottaa sun kossu.:D

Digitalseal
Tuesday, May 23rd, 2006, 10:09 PM
Maybe because your language is not Germanic , it's not even Indo-European.

óšinn
Tuesday, May 23rd, 2006, 10:17 PM
Maybe because your language is not Germanic , it's not even Indo-European.

Wtf??? Standard swedish is not a germanic language if you ask me, there are more ancient germanic words in finnish than in swedish. Swedish is an old norse based filled up with french, low german, latin, etc just a bunch of loanwords.

So if we judge after linguistic germanicity only Icelanders are germanic. Cause the rest of the germanic languages are filled with loan words like swedish which has 60 % loan words.

Hįfrónsku fyrr hverr noršmašr!

No it is not a indo-european langauge but if you count frecnh and frenchmen as more north germanic than finns I wonder what you drank tonight!:D

Galaico
Tuesday, May 23rd, 2006, 10:21 PM
Finns are germanic tribe just like Franks (http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/WestEurope/Franks.html), Ostrogoths (http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/WestEurope/Ostrogoths.html), Visigoths (http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/WestEurope/Visigoths.html), Burgundians (http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/WestEurope/Burgundians.html) Angles, Saxons, Ostrogoths (http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/WestEurope/Ostrogoths.html), Vandals (http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/WestEurope/Vandals.html) and Lombards (http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/WestEurope/Lombards.html). All they came from east,finns just came here,Finland.Maybe they had their own strange language but their genes are germanic.

Germanic is mostly a cultural term, genes can't be Germanic. Those people of European origin whose country or region original language is Germanic can be considered Germanic.

Finns may racially be CM, Nordids or Baltids, very close to Swedes f.e., but Finns' language is Finno-Ugric, so they are culturally Finno-Ugric. The same way Hungarians are genetically and racially very similar to Western Slavs, but culturally they are not Slavic, but Finno-Ugrian.

Aswell, most Finns share the "N" Y Chromosome haplotype, which was brought to Europe 5,000 years ago, while most Germanics share either the "R1" haplotypes (R1a & R1b) which were brought to Europe approx. 40,000 - 35,000 years ago, or the "I" haplotype which was brought to Europe approx. 20,000 years ago.

óšinn
Tuesday, May 23rd, 2006, 10:29 PM
Germanic is mostly a cultural term, genes can't be Germanic. Those people of European origin whose country or region original language is Germanic can be considered Germanic.

Finns may racially be CM, Nordids or Baltids, very close to Swedes f.e., but Finns' language is Finno-Ugric, so they are culturally Finno-Ugric. The same way Hungarians are genetically and racially very similar to Western Slavs, but culturally they are not Slavic, but Finno-Ugrian.

Aswell, most Finns share the "N" Y Chromosome haplotype, which was brought to Europe 5,000 years ago, while most Germanics share either the "R1" haplotypes (R1a & R1b) which were brought to Europe approx. 40,000 - 35,000 years ago, or the "I" haplotype which was brought to Europe approx. 20,000 years ago.

That's easy to say when you live in Spain, come here and look for yourself.:D I'm a finlandswede and I can tell you that some swedes looks like finns and the opposite. Culturallry finns are Eastern Scandiiavian not ugric like ests and hungarians. Genetically they are Nordids or whatever it is that us swedes are. Many times finns are even blonder than swedes.

But keep going and Väinamöinen will come for your soul vittun hintti.:D

Mannerheim
Tuesday, May 23rd, 2006, 10:32 PM
Finns are mainly baltids and nordids and their mixes racially.I know this by hard researching.

Eastern finns are little different racially and genetically but they are still good.

Nevertheless we are so small nation that we should be proud from ourselves.

And we definetely are not mongols.There is finnish looking people all around the white countries in the world.

Galaico
Tuesday, May 23rd, 2006, 10:47 PM
That's easy to say when you live in Spain, come here and look for yourself.:D I'm a finlandswede and I can tell you that some swedes looks like finns and the opposite.
Did you read my post? Did I say the contrary?



Culturallry finns are Eastern Scandiiavian not ugric like ests and hungarians.
What makes Finns less Finno-Ugric than Estonians or Hungarians?

Eastern Scandinavian? You mean the Eastern part of the Scandinavian peninsula, Stockholm?


Genetically they are Nordids or whatever it is that us swedes are. Many times finns are even blonder than swedes.
I agree, there are many Nordid Finns. Are Nordid Russians or Nordid Poles Germanic?


But keep going and Väinamöinen will come for your soul vittun hintti.:DI'm sorry, I didn't understand the last part


Nevertheless we are so small nation that we should be proud from ourselves.You must be very proud of being a Finn, you are a great nation.

Lissu
Tuesday, May 23rd, 2006, 11:04 PM
Galaico, the term Finno-Ugrian equals to Indo-European and not germanic, Slavic etc. Hungarians can call themselves Finno-Ugrics if they wish, Finns and Estonians are Finnic (Finnic equals to Germanic, Romance etc...).

As for not having a Finnish section, Skadi is a Germanic forum so why there should be a Finnish sub forum? Besides there is not enough Finnish members for a section of their own.

Mannerheim
Tuesday, May 23rd, 2006, 11:10 PM
I wonder why there arent Finland sub-forum?

Recent studies shows that finns are genetically close to european average and very close to swedes genetically.

Finns are also most "cro-magnoid" from the whole world,recent studies shows that too.

In Finland are one of the most biggest number of blue eyed people in the whole world among with other nordic states.

Last "real" blond haired human will be finnish cause here is the greatest number of blond haired habitants in proportion to population.

Finns are germanic tribe just like Franks (http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/WestEurope/Franks.html), Ostrogoths (http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/WestEurope/Ostrogoths.html), Visigoths (http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/WestEurope/Visigoths.html), Burgundians (http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/WestEurope/Burgundians.html) Angles, Saxons, Ostrogoths (http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/WestEurope/Ostrogoths.html), Vandals (http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/WestEurope/Vandals.html) and Lombards (http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/WestEurope/Lombards.html). All they came from east,finns just came here,Finland.Maybe they had their own strange language but their genes are germanic.

Before christianity finns had their own religion exactly the same like in scandinavic mythology,only difference was language,gods were same.

Finns have been in resigned position, throughout its history.Swedish rule and russian rule strated to connest finns more closely together.Reason why finns have been in loverworth is because they had this strange language and their strange forrest habbits "forrest people" and ofcourse the biggest reason is population.In Finland was just some tens of thousands population in 16th century.


Finns have always had this problem that they dont belong to anywhere.We dont want to belong to Russia but to west and scandinavia but even today finns always thinks that what example germans think about them,that which race finns belong in their opinion.Finland is maybe the most pro-german country in the world.

People,just visit in Finland and youll see that in what race we belong.Mostly to nordic but also in eastern baltic.

Simply,Finland belongs to germanic race so add Finland in that list too.


This was one of my first posts and i didnt had studied this site much.

But now i know that finnish sub-forum is useless cause this is germanic cultural preservation site and Finland is not germanic linguisticly.

Finland is imho germanic from its culture(i dont mean great pagan religion like asatru) and racially mainly baltid and nordid and i think these 2 races are counted to germanic races(or was it just nordid?).

However,then Finland would be 2/3 germanic.

Agrippa
Tuesday, May 23rd, 2006, 11:48 PM
The main racial types of the original Germanic people were (Skando-) Nordid and Dalofaelid/Cromagnid. For some areas we could mention generally Cromagnoid forms, Borreby/Nordalpinoid, Atlantid/Nordatlantid.

However, Germanic is an ethnolinguistic group, which has certain cultural similarities as well - thats the main point. The racial base is important, but there is "no Germanic race", but rather races which were and more or less still are the main bearers of Germanic language and culture (e.g. Nordid and Dalofaelid).

A Southern German, Swiss or Austrian is Germanic too, even if being of the Dinarid or Alpinid racial type, whereas a former Gothic line of Nordid type which became Slavicised and considers itself being f.e. Russian or Ukrainian now and is mixed with Slavs too can't be considered Germanic. Neither can Finns. Finnish citizens can be, if they are members of the Swedish/Germanic minority, though.

However, I think there are obvious relations between Europeans in general, so I wouldnt make a too big deal out of it, by trying to prove something which isnt there. Even though European nations are related, not all are Germanic obviously...

Mannerheim
Tuesday, May 23rd, 2006, 11:58 PM
The main racial types of the original Germanic people were (Skando-) Nordid and Dalofaelid/Cromagnid. For some areas we could mention generally Cromagnoid forms, Borreby/Nordalpinoid, Atlantid/Nordatlantid.


New important information.Thank you.

I have a question.Why is Finland considered the most Cromagnoid country in the world? What does this means ?


However, Germanic is an ethnolinguistic group, which has certain cultural similarities as well - thats the main point. The racial base is important, but there is "no Germanic race", but rather races which were and more or less still are the main bearers of Germanic language and culture (e.g. Nordid and Dalofaelid).

Indeed


A Southern German, Swiss or Austrian is Germanic too, even if being of the Dinarid or Alpinid racial type, whereas a former Gothic line which became Slavicised and considers itself being f.e. Russian or Ukrainians can't be considered Germanic. Neither can Finns. Finnish citizens can be, if they members of the Swedish/Germanic minority, though.

Indeed


However, I think there are obvious relations between Europeans in general, so I wouldnt make a too big deal out of it by trying to prove something which isnt there. Even though Europeans nations are related, not all are Germanic obviously...

Yes :D


I just like germanics,specificly germans.:D



Cheers

Agrippa
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 12:12 AM
I have a question.Why is Finland considered the most Cromagnoid country in the world? What does this means ?

Who said that? However, there are a lot of Westbaltids which are Cromagnoid in Finland and Dalofaelids being present too. The base of Baltid was Cromagnoid and Eastbaltids have a strong Cromagnoid component as well.

Mannerheim
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 12:28 AM
Who said that? However, there are a lot of Westbaltids which are Cromagnoid in Finland and Dalofaelids being present too. The base of Baltid was Cromagnoid and Eastbaltids have a strong Cromagnoid component as well.

I meant Cro-Magnon.I dont know if this differs from Cromagnoid ?

Im sorry that these pages are in finnish but these are proofs that im not making this up.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/rastas/sec/suom_ynt.html

http://www.kaltio.fi/index.php?255


I guess its just finnish research.But it claims that finns and swedes have more cro-magnon features from the whole europe.

I couldnt find english sites. :|

Theudiskaz
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 12:34 AM
Wtf??? Standard swedish is not a germanic language if you ask me, there are more ancient germanic words in finnish than in swedish. Swedish is an old norse based filled up with french, low german, latin, etc just a bunch of loanwords.

So if we judge after linguistic germanicity only Icelanders are germanic. Cause the rest of the germanic languages are filled with loan words like swedish which has 60 % loan words.

Hįfrónsku fyrr hverr noršmašr!
Dude, come on. Of course Swedish is a Germanic language. Even English is a Germanic language, despite all of its loanwords. To suggest Finnish has more Germanic vocabulary than Swedish is absurd. I haven't studied either one of these languages, but I, just like anyone with the slightest knowledge of European language families, know that Swedish is a North Germanic language and that Finnish is Finno-Ugric.

Thorburn
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 02:17 AM
I wonder why there arent Finland sub-forum? I suppose simply because there never was an audience or a demand for it. Until recently, there weren't too many Finns on Skadi.

I agree that there have been significant Germanic cultural influences upon Finns and Finland that could warrant such a sub-forum. Quite similar to what is now modern France.

'Germanic' is also a very inclusive concept that extends to such notions as spirit, daily culture, philosophical outlook, and attitudes.

Well, you better keep it busy, because now there is a forum about Finland. ;)

Susisaari
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 02:53 AM
Germanic is an ethnolinguistic group, which has certain cultural similarities as well - thats the main point. The racial base is important, but there is "no Germanic race"


This ought to be stressed more often because this is apparently not clear to most people on Skadi.



A Southern German, Swiss or Austrian is Germanic too, even if being of the Dinarid or Alpinid racial type,


Exactly.



whereas a former Gothic line of Nordid type which became Slavicised and considers itself being f.e. Russian or Ukrainian now and is mixed with Slavs too can't be considered Germanic.


Exactly.



Neither can Finns. Finnish citizens can be, if they are members of the Swedish/Germanic minority, though.


You're correct in terms of language, but language does not define culture. English is a Germanic language, but English-speaking Negroes are not Germanic because they live in their own subculture.

(I mean mostly African-American ghetto culture. If a black child were adopted in a Germanic family as a newborn baby and were raised in a Germanic culture (e.g. 19th century Sweden) the child would be Germanic. But mostly it's impossible for nonwhites to be Germanic because they have a totally different culture even if they live in a Germanic country. And besides, if a lot of nonwhites were allowed to live in a Germanic country, that country would soon seize to be Germanic. This is what is currently going on in the Germanic countries of Europe. Islamic immigrants are turning Europe into Eurabia.)



However, I think there are obvious relations between Europeans in general, so I wouldnt make a too big deal out of it, by trying to prove something which isnt there. Even though European nations are related, not all are Germanic obviously...


Yeah but differences between Germanic people and e.g. Celtic people should not be overestimated. I personally think there is no such thing as Celtic culture anymore. Differences between e.g. Irish people and British people are mostly imaginary.

Agrippa
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 03:18 AM
Ethnicity includes ancestral and racial relations, but can't be equated with a racial type - with the exceptions of some small and isolated ethnicities. The racial borderline is European - someone who is racially not at least predominantely European cannot become a Germanic and the core is and always was Nordoid-Cromagnoid. This shouldnt be lost so to say.

I can just agree with all other comments. Finns have a strong influence from their Germanic Scandinavian neighbors, both by culture and blood, thats obvious.

Lissu
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 08:52 AM
but I, just like anyone with the slightest knowledge of European language families, know that Swedish is a North Germanic language and that Finnish is Finno-Ugric.
Swedish = Indo-European
Finnish = Finno-Ugric

Swedish = Germanic
Finnish = Finnic

Swedish = North Germanic
Finnish = Balto-Finnic (Finnic languages spoken in Baltic sea and White sea region)

When people will learn this? ;)

In other words, If you speak about Swedish (for example) as a North Germanic language, then Finnish mentioned in the same context should be called as a Balto-Finnic language. Shouldn't be that difficult :)

The term Finno-Ugric is a damn wide one, as wide as Indo-European is from English to Hindi.

Lissu
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 09:16 AM
And one most not forget that swedes and finns is sopmehow mixed up, western finns, have more swedish/nordic blood while eastern finns are more "true finns" and not slavonic russians like many foreigners and even swedes do believe sometimes. Since there are still today a large number of ethnic fins on russian territory it is finns on their areas and not the opposite if you don't count the russian immigrants of course.
Perhaps the difference between eastern and western Finns are not because of Scandinavian, but simply because eastern and western Finns consist of different tribes such as Karelians (eastern) and Tavastians and Finns (western). Savonians are counted as eastern but they are a younger tribe, more or less a mix between Tavastians and Karelians.


But culturally there is no doubt, finns are East Scandinavians culturally and not Western Slavonic.Hm,mm... being west Slavonic... :scratch sounds very absurd, sharing the same culture with Polaks :rotfl

OK, perhaps Finnish culture could be defined as "east Scandinavian", but while Finland is not a part of Scandinavia proper, the better term would be Fenno-Scandian :)

I understand that you see things differently as you share the language with Swedes, but still you represent the 5% minority in Finland, of which only 20% can say to have real Swedish ancestors.

EDIT: Just realized that there is an own forum for Finns now... :-O

Well what can I say... :thumbup

Glenlivet
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 09:39 AM
Finns have moved to Scandinavia, that is true. Likewise, Swedes have influenced Finns culturally and some have intermarried with Finns. Still, Finns are not Scandinavian or Germanic, but Finland is of course a Nordic country.

The Nordid element in Finland (mostly in the southwestern part of the country) is the same as in western Estonia and of eastern (high skulled) origin, East-Nordid, of Lundman's Aistin variety/type. The type is also found in coastal Latvia. However, most Finns are East-Baltid. It is easy to spot a Finn standing among a group of Englishmen in England. I have done that several times. It is much more difficult with a Norwegian, although it is possible.

There is usually something which makes them different from typical Northwestern Europeans. They often have eyes which are set far apart. There are more Finnish men with very snubbed noses, and the cheekbones are more pronounced, face is lower and broader, and so forth. Even the body type is different, more squat or pyknic (even when they are tall). There are similarities between all Northern Europeans, but someone with a trained eye can see the differences. There is of course an overlap between neighbouring countries like Sweden and Finland. But it is easy to recognise that there are significant differences between a typical Dutchman or Englishman and a Finn.

óšinn
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 11:10 AM
1) Perhaps the difference between eastern and western Finns are not because of Scandinavian, but simply because eastern and western Finns consist of different tribes such as Karelians (eastern) and Tavastians and Finns (western). Savonians are counted as eastern but they are a younger tribe, more or less a mix between Tavastians and Karelians.

2) Hm,mm... being west Slavonic... :scratch sounds very absurd, sharing the same culture with Polaks :rotfl

3) OK, perhaps Finnish culture could be defined as "east Scandinavian", but while Finland is not a part of Scandinavia proper, the better term would be Fenno-Scandian :)

4) I understand that you see things differently as you share the language with Swedes, but still you represent the 5% minority in Finland, of which only 20% can say to have real Swedish ancestors.

5) EDIT: Just realized that there is an own forum for Finns now... :-O

Well what can I say... :thumbup

1) I agree.

2) Mayhap but I've speoken to many swedenswedes online whom have believed that finns are slavonic.:D And I agree it sounds absurd. Finns are finns!

3) Well what I meant was that the finnish culture is more similar to the scandinavian ones than to the russian ones but of course after 600 years as eastern sweden.

4) Well swedes and finns have lived this close for more then 2000 years, so I just can't believe that there haven't been any intermarriages. I mean I've seen sweden-swedes who have look like finns and finns without swedish blood whom have looked like swedes. I don't think we're pretty mixed up scandinavians and finns, so let us just be the stubborn inhabitants of the North.:P

And yes, I do realize that I feel that I have much in common with Icelanders, Swedes, Norwegians and Danes since swedish is my mothertongue. But I also know that most finns that I know or partial-finns do feel more like East-scandinavians rather then a Ugric people, culturally!

5) Ja kyllä, we got a forum of our own at last. Excellent! Many thanks to the staff!

Now we can begin discussing the very intresting subject the origin of the finns.

We can remove West Slavonic at once since that is ridicolous. But I still claim that there are true finns, at least Western finns with scandinavian blood and of course eastern finns with ugric blood.

Because if there wasn't it's very peculiar that a ugric people with a non-indo european language has so many similarities with Scandinavians.

But it could of course be the opposite as well, ugric swedes:D! But if I start discussing such things I may get slain by Swedes whom have gotten their belief in their pure germanic heritage crushed.:D So it's better to believe the opposite that there are western finns with lots of scandinavian blood in their veins. Eventhough the language and original eastern finns derived form the Ural mountains as the origanal maygars did.

Well whatever the truth is still the following: finns are a hard people.:thumbup

Lissu
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 11:25 AM
And yes, I do realize that I feel that I have much in common with Icelanders, Swedes, Norwegians and Danes since swedish is my mothertongue. But I also know that most finns that I know or partial-finns do feel more like East-scandinavians rather then a Ugric people, culturally!What Ugric?!? :scratch

Finns are racially of the same stock than Balts, and AFAIK Balts are not Ugric either ;)

óšinn
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 11:52 AM
What Ugric?!? :scratch

Finns are racially of the same stock than Balts, and AFAIK Balts are not Ugric either ;)

Well I use ugric when I mean Baltid since the language is finnish-ugric. I thought that germanic peoples speak germanic languages then a people speaking an ugric language must be an ugric people.

So I meant Baltic.

Lissu
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 11:55 AM
Well I use ugric when I mean Baltid since the language is finnish-ugric. I thought that germanic peoples speak germanic languages then a people speaking an ugric language must be an ugric people.

So I meant Baltic.You are so confused.

The same in Finnish: Olet ihan sekaisin.

óšinn
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 12:33 PM
You are so confused.

The same in Finnish: Olet ihan sekaisin.

Sekaisin isn't that when somethinh is broken, I mean i've heard people talking about a broken computer as sekaisin.:D

Death and the Sun
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 12:51 PM
Finns have moved to Scandinavia, that is true.

Finland is not in Scandinavia, so you cannot say that Finns have moed to Scandinavia.

But ALL the inhabitants of Scandinavia have moved there; because in geological terms, the whole area was covered in ice yesterday.

Glenlivet
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 12:58 PM
Either I misunderstand you or you misunderstand me.

I was thinking of "forest of the Finns" (skogsfinnar or skogsfinner) who moved to Sweden (e.g. to Värmland) or Norway (e.g. Hedmark). There is of course a large Finnish minority in Sweden and some of these Finns intermarried with ethnic Swedes.


Finland is not in Scandinavia, so you cannot say that Finns have moed to Scandinavia.

Death and the Sun
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 01:01 PM
Either I misunderstand you or you misunderstand me.

I was thinking of "forest of the Finns" (skogsfinnar or skogsfinner) who moved to Sweden (e.g. to Värmland) or Norway (e.g. Hedmark). There is of course a large Finnish minority in Sweden and some of these Finns intermarried with ethnic Swedes.

Ah I see now. It is definitely a case of me misunderstanding you.

Landgar
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 02:00 PM
As for not having a Finnish section, Skadi is a Germanic forum so why there should be a Finnish sub forum? Besides there is not enough Finnish members for a section of their own.
http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://forums.skadi.net/&clusters=yes&type=small&map=Europe

A finnish sub-forum would maybe convince more of these "observing" Finns to join.

And maybe, when enough Finns are here, why not a finnish speaking sub-forum (like German-, Aldiets- and Skandinavisk-Forum)? ;)

Lissu
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 04:37 PM
http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://forums.skadi.net/&clusters=yes&type=small&map=Europe

A finnish sub-forum would maybe convince more of these "observing" Finns to join.

And maybe, when enough Finns are here, why not a finnish speaking sub-forum (like German-, Aldiets- and Skandinavisk-Forum)? ;)I agree with this, while being a member with 0 posts here at Skadi for some year or so ;)

Mannerheim
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 07:22 PM
Thorburn,thank you very much. :thumbup

And also thanks for correcting my grammar mistakes. :D :thumbup

We have to start disgussing about something concerning Finland.

Cheers

Digitalseal
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 08:07 PM
What?

i thought this was a message board for Germanic-speaking persons.

If your gonna have a Finnish sub-forum, then you mine as well add a Hungarian sub-forum, they also belong to the Finno-Ugric language family.

What's next? sub-forums for Italic and Slavic peoples?

Lissu
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 08:11 PM
What?

i thought this was a message board for Germanic-speaking persons.

If your gonna have a Finnish sub-forum, then you mine as well add a Hungarian sub-forum, they also belong to the Finno-Ugric language family.

What's next? sub-forums for Italic and Slavic peoples?Elämä on..... :thumbup

Mannerheim
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 08:19 PM
What?

i thought this was a message board for Germanic-speaking persons.

If your gonna have a Finnish sub-forum, then you mine as well add a Hungarian sub-forum, they also belong to the Finno-Ugric language family.

What's next? sub-forums for Italic and Slavic peoples?

Wtf does this belong to you,mario bros ?

Susisaari
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 08:25 PM
Finns may racially be CM, Nordids or Baltids, very close to Swedes f.e., but Finns' language is Finno-Ugric, so they are culturally Finno-Ugric. The same way Hungarians are genetically and racially very similar to Western Slavs, but culturally they are not Slavic, but Finno-Ugrian.


There is no such thing as Finno-Ugric culture.

Language and culture are two different things.

The Finno-Ugric language group is as wide as the Indo-European language group. To say that the Finns and the Hungarians are culturally similar to each other simply because they speak Finno-Ugric languages is as idiotic as saying that Sweden and India are culturally similar because Swedish and Sanskrit are Indo-European languages.

I don't have anything against the Hungarians, but we have nothing in common with them.

Mannerheim
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 10:54 PM
Finns have moved to Scandinavia, that is true. Likewise, Swedes have influenced Finns culturally and some have intermarried with Finns. Still, Finns are not Scandinavian or Germanic, but Finland is of course a Nordic country.

The Nordid element in Finland (mostly in the southwestern part of the country) is the same as in western Estonia and of eastern (high skulled) origin, East-Nordid, of Lundman's Aistin variety/type. The type is also found in coastal Latvia. However, most Finns are East-Baltid. It is easy to spot a Finn standing among a group of Englishmen in England. I have done that several times. It is much more difficult with a Norwegian, although it is possible.

There is usually something which makes them different from typical Northwestern Europeans. They often have eyes which are set far apart. There are more Finnish men with very snubbed noses, and the cheekbones are more pronounced, face is lower and broader, and so forth. Even the body type is different, more squat or pyknic (even when they are tall). There are similarities between all Northern Europeans, but someone with a trained eye can see the differences. There is of course an overlap between neighbouring countries like Sweden and Finland. But it is easy to recognise that there are significant differences between a typical Dutchman or Englishman and a Finn.


Most of what you wrote is very absurd or almost idiotic.


Snubbed noses,body type is different



It is obvious that you are anti-finnish(like me to some extent when speaking about language) but do you know that we live in 21th century cause you seem to live 18th.

I think example that finns should have stayed in their own country in the 60s and not ruin swedish culture.Btw those finnish workers came from countryside and they were poor and poorest areas were Eastern-Finland county and there they came and that was also the most biggest EB area.

I have some friends in Sweden who have 0% finnish ancestry and some of them have very much EB straits and i have travelled lot in Sweden and i have noticed very much EB straits in swedes.They cant all have finnish ancestry ?

I recommend you to go out from your room sometimes. :thumbup

Dont judge what you dont know.:thumbdown



Most finns are east-baltid


Trash.

Prove this to 21th style.

Galaico
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 11:11 PM
There is no such thing as Finno-Ugric culture.

Language and culture are two different things.
So what's culture made of in your opinion?

The Finno-Ugric language group is as wide as the Indo-European language group. To say that the Finns and the Hungarians are culturally similar to each other simply because they speak Finno-Ugric languages is as idiotic as saying that Sweden and India are culturally similar because Swedish and Sanskrit are Indo-European languages.
Excuse me, but the Finno-Ugric group may be as important or relevant as the Indo-European, but not as wide.
And yes, Northern Germanics such as Swedes and Indo-Aryans such as Sanskrit speakers are obviously related in linguistic terms.

I don't have anything against the Hungarians, but we have nothing in common with them.
Well, lingustically and except for Estonians, it is the European nation you are closest to.

Mannerheim
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 11:21 PM
Well, lingustically and except for Estonians, it is the European nation you are closest to.


LOL,says spaniard. :D :D

As a finn i can only second what Susisaari said: We have nothing common with hungarians.With all do respect towards hungarians(they seem very nice people) but i dont understand anything what they speak.Their language causes me to headache.:D Even italian sounds more familiar to my ear than hungar,unfortunately.

Only one word comes to my mind what would sound almost to same

Mehiläinen is something like mehilaine in hungar.And this means bee.


Culturally we are definetely closest to swedes allthough they(swedes) may not know that.:D


Cheers

Susisaari
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 11:30 PM
Excuse me, but the Finno-Ugric group may be as important or relevant as the Indo-European, but not as wide.


The exact opposite is true. It's not as important or relevant as the Indo-European group because it's much smaller. But it is as wide.



And yes, Northern Germanics such as Swedes and Indo-Aryans such as Sanskrit speakers are obviously related in linguistic terms.


Irrelevant because language and culture are two different things.



Well, lingustically and except for Estonians, it is the European nation you are closest to.


Irrelevant because language and culture are two different things.

Galaico
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 11:34 PM
As a finn i can only second what Susisaari said: We have nothing common with hungarians.With all do respect towards hungarians(they seem very nice people) but i dont understand anything what they speak.Their language causes me to headache.:D Even italian sounds more familiar to my ear than hungar,unfortunately.
Well I don't understand a single word of Romanian language, and it is as Romance as Spanish.

You must take into account that both languages (Finnish and Magyar) have been separated for thousands of years and have received different foreign influence. That doesn't break their common origin.

Culturally we are definetely closest to swedes allthough they(swedes) may not know that.
What's culture in your opinion?

Mannerheim
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 11:41 PM
What's culture in your opinion?

Everything. :D

Politics,peoples behaviour,peoples thinking,what you wear,your lifestyle what you eat and where you eat,architecture,youth,art,political system....etc

I think these are pretty much same though american influence is obvious.

Lissu
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 11:41 PM
What's culture in your opinion?Culture is something you live in, it's not a separate thing from life itself but involved in every second of our lives.

And yes Finnish culture has quite a lot in common with Swedish culture, even though there are differences also. Finland and Sweden are undoubtfully brother nations.

Galaico
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 11:43 PM
The exact opposite is true. It's not as important or relevant as the Indo-European group because it's much smaller. But it is as wide.
Importance is not only related to the number of speakers.

Is it as wide? How many main branches does the Finno-Ugric group has? seven?
The IE group has eight living branches only in Europe, each of them divided in lots of branches




Irrelevant because language and culture are two different things.
Irrelevant in your opinion. But I'll be happy to read your definition on culture.

Galaico
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 11:47 PM
And yes Finnish culture has quite a lot in common with Swedish culture, even though there are differences also.
True, Finnish culture is much influenced by Scandinavian cultures, and pretty close to them, it is definitely Nordeuropean except for the language, one of the main pillars in culture.

IMO, culture has it basis in four main pillars: Race, religion, history, and language.

Mannerheim
Wednesday, May 24th, 2006, 11:56 PM
True, Finnish culture is much influenced by Scandinavian cultures, and pretty close to them, it is definitely Nordeuropean except for the language, one of the main pillars in culture.

Finland have 2 official languages and they are swedish and finnish.



IMO, culture has it basis in four main pillars: Race, religion, history, and language.


Agree but good culture needs also good army.;)

If you want to stretch your concept of culture,then the genes would also in my list.

Good culture requires also good system of government and unity of people example fascism would be good.

Galaico
Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 12:08 AM
Finland have 2 official languages and they are swedish and finnish.
Yes, and Ireland has English and Gaelic, and it is surely non-Germanic.

I agree with the rest :)

Mannerheim
Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 12:10 AM
Yes, and Ireland has English and Gaelic, and it is surely non-Germanic.

I agree with the rest :)

Yes

Digitalseal
Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 05:36 AM
Wtf does this belong to you,mario bros ?

What do you mean by that?

Nicola_Canadian
Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 07:45 AM
I am not a moderator here, but I would suggest providing Finns with there own small Vortex. Just like Slavic people have "Slavic Vortex".

I would prefer seeing Finns in love with their OWN "culture" than trying to pretend to be something they are not...

bittercreek
Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 09:10 AM
I would prefer seeing Finns in love with their OWN "culture" than trying to pretend to be something they are not...

If the main idea of this forum is to concentrate on the specific Germanic /Western European influences on Finland, then I don't see how that makes this a forum for being something "we are not'.

Heck, I could start a topic about the Viborg Pretzel and its central european origin and its influence as a trademark of the Carelian culture, recognized throughout Finland...

Or talk about the art of eating semlor... (whatever it is in English)

Although a separate vortex in the slavic style wouldn't make a difference, the topics would remain the same.

But as an expert I'm sure you'll sure tell us what exactly is "their OWN culture" and how to cherish it since everyone is so "lost" now ;). I doubt most people want to chit-chat about a collection of poems (Kalevala) all the time, rather than things that actually are visible parts of cultural influences in everyday life for example.

Austrvegr
Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 09:24 AM
True, Finnish culture is much influenced by Scandinavian cultures, and pretty close to them, it is definitely Nordeuropean except for the language, one of the main pillars in culture.

Northern Europe has its western and eastern halves. Finnic languages may have been in Northern Europe for millenia longer than Germanic.

Lissu
Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 10:14 AM
If the main idea of this forum is to concentrate on the specific Germanic /Western European influences on Finland, then I don't see how that makes this a forum for being something "we are not'.

Heck, I could start a topic about the Viborg Pretzel and its central european origin and its influence as a trademark of the Carelian culture, recognized throughout Finland... Please do so :D


Although a separate vortex in the slavic style wouldn't make a difference, the topics would remain the same.I agree with this also.

Death and the Sun
Sunday, May 28th, 2006, 04:38 PM
True, Finnish culture is much influenced by Scandinavian cultures, and pretty close to them, it is definitely Nordeuropean except for the language, one of the main pillars in culture.

IMO, culture has it basis in four main pillars: Race, religion, history, and language.

Finnish IS a north European language. There are other languages in Northern Europe besides the Germanic ones.


I would prefer seeing Finns in love with their OWN "culture" than trying to pretend to be something they are not...

I've no comment on where the Finnish subforum should be placed and which form it should take (that's decision for the administration here to make), but I seriously doubt that any of the Finns here have any desire to pretend to be anything, not as individuals, and most cortainly not as some form of collective organism. No offense, but I would suppose that the notions of the Finns here on what Finnish culture is and what it is not are almost certainly more accurate than your impressions on the matter.

Galaico
Sunday, May 28th, 2006, 06:43 PM
Finnish IS a north European language. There are other languages in Northern Europe besides the Germanic ones.

Well that's very subjective. Defenitely it is a language spoken in Northern Europe, but Fenno-Ugrian languages are originally foreign to Europe as they were born in Central Asia, so geographically YES, I consider it North European, but culturally I don't.

Death and the Sun
Sunday, May 28th, 2006, 07:07 PM
Well that's very subjective. Defenitely it is a language spoken in Northern Europe, but Fenno-Ugrian languages are originally foreign to Europe as they were born in Central Asia, so geographically YES, I consider it North European, but culturally I don't.

Central Asia?

Death and the Sun
Sunday, May 28th, 2006, 07:08 PM
EDIT:

Also, didn't the Indo-European languages originate outside Europe?

Galaico
Sunday, May 28th, 2006, 07:16 PM
Central Asia?
Yes, Central/West Asia.

Also, didn't the Indo-European languages originate outside Europe?
There are many theories, I even read one that suggested that IE came from Mongolia. The most accepted theory proposes that the IE languages first appeared in Southern Russia/Ukraine among the East Paleo-Europeans (haplotype R1a).

Digitalseal
Sunday, May 28th, 2006, 07:24 PM
IE languages are from west-central Asia, on the land above the black sea.

Galaico
Sunday, May 28th, 2006, 07:36 PM
IE languages are from west-central Asia, on the land above the black sea.
That can't be possible, all the land above the Black Sea is Europe.

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=60501&stc=1&d=1148841380

Lissu
Sunday, May 28th, 2006, 08:05 PM
Well that's very subjective. Defenitely it is a language spoken in Northern Europe, but Fenno-Ugrian languages are originally foreign to Europe as they were born in Central Asia, so geographically YES, I consider it North European, but culturally I don't.Assumed "birth-place" of proto-Finno-Ugric is the bend of Volga which is west from the Urals. Assumed birth-place of proto-IE is north from the Black Sea.

Both are located in European part of Eurasia, though east from Europe proper. So what's your point?

Besides Finnic languages have existed in Northern Europe longer than North Germanic ones.

Death and the Sun
Sunday, May 28th, 2006, 08:11 PM
Yes, Central/West Asia.


Where do you consider the border between Europe and Asia to be?


There are many theories, I even read one that suggested that IE came from Mongolia. The most accepted theory proposes that the IE languages first appeared in Southern Russia/Ukraine among the East Paleo-Europeans (haplotype R1a).

Any links?

Galaico
Sunday, May 28th, 2006, 10:47 PM
Where do you consider the border between Europe and Asia to be?
The Ural Mountains and the Ural river.

Any links?
http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/europa1sm.gif
http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/indoeuropean.html
This theory puts the place more westwards.

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=60508&stc=1&d=1148850458
Sorry, no link here.

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=60514&stc=1&d=1148853111

The first carriers of the R1a1 haplotype are believed to have been nomadic farmers in the steppes of northern Central Asia about 10,000 years ago. Current theories point to them being the first speakers of the proto-Indo-European languages (the Kurgan culture)
www.wikipedia.org (http://www.wikipedia.org)


The Haplogroup R1a has been previously linked with the ancient Kurgans and/or Indo-Europeans of southern Russia/Ukraine, who supposedly migrated to Europe, central Asia and India between 3000-1000 BC.
http://www.biologydaily.com/biology/Aryan_invasion_theory


Assumed "birth-place" of proto-Finno-Ugric is the bend of Volga which is west from the Urals. Assumed birth-place of proto-IE is north from the Black Sea.

The scientists are interested in the question of the forehomelandof the old Finno-Ugrians very long time. They searched the old forehomelandin the Altai region, in Upper Ob, Irtysh and Jenisei, and in the coast of the Arctic Ocean. The modern scientists came to the conclusion on the base of their researches in the area of the Finno-Ugric vocabulary related to the flora, that the forehomeland of the Finno-Ugrians was located in the region of the rivers Volga and Kama on the both sides of Urals.
You're right Lissu, I got mistaken with the origin of N haplotype, that was brought to Europe by the Finno-Ugric speakers. You'll find more information here: https://www5.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/. So it would be more correct to say Finno-Ugric languages have an Uralic origin.


Besides Finnic languages have existed in Northern Europe longer than North Germanic ones.
Perhaps, though not sure about it, if you could please provide any links I'd be very grateful.
Anyway, that's not the point. According to the Paleolithic continuity theory, the Indo-European speakers, and thus Germanic speakers, descend from the first Homo-Sapiens settlers that arrived to Europe approx. 40,000 years ago, while Finno-Ugric speakers in Europe (especially Finns and Sami) descend from Central/Western Asian populations that arrived to Europe 5,000-7,000 years ago.
While North Germanic speakers are native to Europe since Paleolithic times, Finno-Ugric speakers are much recent.

Lissu
Sunday, May 28th, 2006, 10:54 PM
Anyway, that's not the point. According to the Paleolithic continuity theory, the Indo-European speakers, and thus Germanic speakers, descend from the first Homo-Sapiens settlers that arrived to Europe approx. 40,000 years ago, while Finno-Ugric speakers in Europe (especially Finns and Sami) descend from Central/Western Asian populations that arrived to Europe 5,000-7,000 years ago.
While North Germanic speakers are native to Europe since Paleolithic times, Finno-Ugric speakers are much recent.If so, then why Finns are so cro-magnoid today? And why Finns are genetically (especially by haplogroup Y) close to Balts, who are IE and Lithuanian is an archaic IE language, closely related to Sanksrit?

Galaico
Sunday, May 28th, 2006, 11:01 PM
If so, then why Finns are so cro-magnoid today? And why Finns are genetically (especially by haplogroup Y) close to Balts, who are IE and Lithuanian is an archaic IE language, closely related to Sanksrit?
Finns are so CM looking because all their mtDNA is as Paleo-European as in any other European nation. The Finno-Ugric/N haplotype invasion was purely a male invasion, aswell CM were not only restricted to Europe, f.e. Asian Alpinoids are reduced Asiatic Cromagnoids.

Balts are an Indo-European speaking population, but genetically are a mix of Indo-European (R1a hg) and Finno-Ugric (N hg).

Lissu
Sunday, May 28th, 2006, 11:48 PM
...So a Spaniard is an expert with Finns? :rotfl

I find it curious that in a Germanic forum those who seem to be against Finns are non-Germanics themselves, while Germanics seem to regard Finns as their brethern. Because that's what we are - culturally and racially.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Monday, May 29th, 2006, 12:09 AM
Finnish sub-forum? That sounds great to me and would go along with the Celtic and Slavic sub-forums. Actually, my suspicion is that this corner of the world had a lot to do with the Nordic racial type as well as the East Baltic and Lapp. Perhaps blond hair originated in Finland. What I am saying is that the racial relationship between the Finns and Germans is similar to the cultural relationship between the Celts and Germans. Also, correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the Swedes settle eastern Finland to a large degree and didn't immigration from Finland enter into Sweden at some point in the recent past?

Lissu
Monday, May 29th, 2006, 07:46 AM
Finnish sub-forum? That sounds great to me and would go along with the Celtic and Slavic sub-forums. Actually, my suspicion is that this corner of the world had a lot to do with the Nordic racial type as well as the East Baltic and Lapp. Perhaps blond hair originated in Finland. What I am saying is that the racial relationship between the Finns and Germans is similar to the cultural relationship between the Celts and Germans. Also, correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the Swedes settle eastern Finland to a large degree and didn't immigration from Finland enter into Sweden at some point in the recent past?East Baltic region is the blondest in the world. Did the mutation that caused blondism originate in this area or not, no one knows... propably it depends on how old the mutation is, because most certainly no one lived here until some 10 000 years ago.

As for the gene exhange between Swedes and Finns, that has happened both ways even though it has been relatively recent phenomenon.

Galaico
Monday, May 29th, 2006, 11:42 AM
...So a Spaniard is an expert with Finns? :rotfl
Is that your last word? How disappointing...


I find it curious that in a Germanic forum those who seem to be against Finns are non-Germanics themselves, while Germanics seem to regard Finns as their brethern. Because that's what we are - culturally and racially.
Who is against Finns? If you want to turn your back to all the genetic evidence, that's your problem.

Lissu
Monday, May 29th, 2006, 12:11 PM
Who is against Finns? If you want to turn your back to all the genetic evidence, that's your problem.No one knows where that Haplotype originates from. Since it's most common among Europids, and not only that, but also among the most blonde ones, so....

To me it seems that some people go too much into details. Straight father- and mother lines are only a fraction of the bigger picture.

Besides, even if Tat-C was a "Siberian" haplotype, I would prefer it over Arabic or Northern African ones anytime, not to mention about sub-Saharan ones... ;)

Death and the Sun
Monday, May 29th, 2006, 12:18 PM
The Paleolithic Continuity Theory is controversial at best. Anyway, I admit that I browsed your other links rather superficially, but it seems to me you are not making a clear distinction between language and ethnicity.

Galaico
Monday, May 29th, 2006, 12:26 PM
No one knows where that Haplotype originates from. Since it's most common among Europids, and not only that, but also among the most blonde ones, so....
Never said it was not Europid. In fact, I defended Finns and the N haplotype in another thread, claiming its Europidness. Siberian doesn't equal non-Europid. R1a and R1b haplotypes are closer to the N haplotype than to the I haplotype.


To me it seems that some people go too much into details. Straight father- and mother lines are only a fraction of the bigger picture.
That's true at an individual level, but haplotypes are very useful at a collective level, to establish the origin of a nation's or region's population.


Besides, even if Tat-C was a "Siberian" haplotype, I would prefer it over Arabic or Northern African ones anytime, not to mention about sub-Saharan ones... ;)
Of course, there's nothing to be ashamed of the N haplotype.

Susisaari
Monday, May 29th, 2006, 04:21 PM
Well I don't understand a single word of Romanian language, and it is as Romance as Spanish.


That's interesting because I can understand Romanian and Spanish and Portuguese even though I have never studied them, because I speak French and Italian. It's funny that somebody whose mother tongue is Spanish is saying he doesn't understand a word of Romanian. It's as if some Finn said he doesn't understand a word of Estonian.



You must take into account that both languages (Finnish and Magyar) have been separated for thousands of years and have received different foreign influence. That doesn't break their common origin.


That origin was about 6,000 years back in time. If you that far back, you can also establish the common origin of Swedish and Sanskrit. That doesn't mean Sweden and India are culturally similar.

I said this already, but repetitio mater studiorum est.

Susisaari
Monday, May 29th, 2006, 04:24 PM
Is it as wide? How many main branches does the Finno-Ugric group has? seven?
The IE group has eight living branches only in Europe, each of them divided in lots of branches


Irrelevant. Finnish and Hungarian are as far apart as Swedish and Sanskrit. That's what I meant by how "wide" the Finno-Ugric group is.

óšinn
Monday, May 29th, 2006, 04:31 PM
Well I don't understand a single word of Romanian language, and it is as Romance as Spanish.

Maybe becuase Romanian has more umbric in it, while italian, spanish and french is closer to latin.

Galaico
Monday, May 29th, 2006, 04:42 PM
That's interesting because I can understand Romanian and Spanish and Portuguese even though I have never studied them, because I speak French and Italian. It's funny that somebody whose mother tongue is Spanish is saying he doesn't understand a word of Romanian. It's as if some Finn said he doesn't understand a word of Estonian.
Then you must be very intelligent, as Spanish is as far away from Romanian as English from Swedish.


Of course Spanish is an Indo-European language.
We are an Indo-European speaking population, but as most Western Europe, our origins are Western Paleo-European not Indo-European.

Susisaari
Monday, May 29th, 2006, 04:44 PM
Then you must be very intelligent, as Spanish is as far away from Romanian as English from Swedish.


Yes, I agree the distance is about that long. Also, that's about the same distance as between Finnish and Estonian.

Digitalseal
Monday, May 29th, 2006, 05:40 PM
I do agree that Finland is Germanic by culture

But language matters also, that's why I do not agree with this sub-forum.

Mannerheim
Monday, May 29th, 2006, 07:39 PM
Me too, like some others tend to lose temper when some people starts to divide and classify finnish race although these masters of race haven themselves ever even been in these countries(Finland for an example).

I dont talk about what i dont know and other thing usually is that i dont talk about racial-compositions of some countries cause i dont want to make angry some people(some people in the other hand i want to make angry purposely) by telling these people that their proud culture and race would be also something other than just europid.

Galaico
Monday, May 29th, 2006, 08:03 PM
Me too, like some others tend to lose temper when some people starts to divide and classify finnish race although these masters of race haven themselves ever even been in these countries(Finland for an example).

I dont talk about what i dont know and other thing usually is that i dont talk about racial-compositions of some countries cause i dont want to make angry some people(some people in the other hand i want to make angry purposely) by telling these people that their proud culture and race would be also something other than just europid.
I don't know if you're talking about me Mannerheim. Did I say anything false about the Finns? Was I offensive in any case to Finland or the Finns? NO and NO. I respectfully maintain everything I said.

Landgar
Monday, May 29th, 2006, 08:12 PM
I find it curious that in a Germanic forum those who seem to be against Finns are non-Germanics themselves, while Germanics seem to regard Finns as their brethern.
That's true.
Most Germans (and i'm not talking about those who also like negroes and gypsies! :D - I mean National Socialists.), including me, don't see Finns as "something different".
I don't know much about how other Germanics see this, but i think it's more or less the same.

Mannerheim
Monday, May 29th, 2006, 08:42 PM
I don't know if you're talking about me Mannerheim. Did I say anything false about the Finns? Was I offensive in any case to Finland or the Finns? NO and NO. I respectfully maintain everything I said.

I did not mean you and Spain.



That's true.
Most Germans (and i'm not talking about those who also like negroes and gypsies! :D - I mean National Socialists.), including me, don't see Finns as "something different".
I don't know much about how other Germanics see this, but i think it's more or less the same


Thanks.:thumbup

Galaico
Monday, May 29th, 2006, 10:04 PM
I did not mean you and Spain.
Anteeksi! minun virhe.

Minä rakastan Suomi.

Mannerheim
Tuesday, May 30th, 2006, 01:38 AM
Anteeksi! minun virhe.

Minä rakastan Suomi.

Eso es aceptable. No tengo nada contra amor de Espana.I esta perla meridional hermosa. La gente es siempre hermosa y la cultura es encantadora. :thumbup

Ahti
Tuesday, May 30th, 2006, 12:11 PM
That's true.
Most Germans (and i'm not talking about those who also like negroes and gypsies! :D - I mean National Socialists.), including me, don't see Finns as "something different".
I don't know much about how other Germanics see this, but i think it's more or less the same.

I believe that atleast partially this is simply because Germany and Finland have traditionally been close to each other in many ways. We have fought as brothers for many times in many wars, and Germans have actually had the chance to see how we really are - in our outlooks and in our behaviour. And even today our nations still have good relationships with each other, and material and cultural exchange hasn't died totally :thumbup

And why to see someone different from you, when he's not anyway ;)

German-Finnish brotherhood!

Btw, good to see Mannerheim and Galaico solving this little "argument" that was close to break out :thumbup

Mannerheim
Tuesday, May 30th, 2006, 07:38 PM
I believe that atleast partially this is simply because Germany and Finland have traditionally been close to each other in many ways. We have fought as brothers for many times in many wars, and Germans have actually had the chance to see how we really are - in our outlooks and in our behaviour. And even today our nations still have good relationships with each other, and material and cultural exchange hasn't died totally :thumbup

And why to see someone different from you, when he's not anyway ;)

German-Finnish brotherhood!

Btw, good to see Mannerheim and Galaico solving this little "argument" that was close to break out :thumbup


Unfortunately what i have found from skadi is that.

Many germans dont care about Finland that much.It is distant nation among others in their minds when we finns generally raise germans a bit higher from the other european nations.

It is unilateral relationship.We love them and germans are neutral.

Reason are cause we have so remote geographical position that we have been dependent on other nations like example from Germany and NOT vice versa.

Germans have affected to Finland and to our culture remarkably but finns havent affected to Germany or its culture at all.

And we have been like shadow from our bigger neighbours - not important.Small and brainless. :D

One reason is also that if Germany wouldnt had helped in 1918 and in 1941-1944,we would had perished.I guess that this is the most important reason to love germans. All germans.



Me and Galaico did not had any "argument". ;)

Landgar
Tuesday, May 30th, 2006, 10:46 PM
I believe that atleast partially this is simply because Germany and Finland have traditionally been close to each other in many ways. We have fought as brothers for many times in many wars, and Germans have actually had the chance to see how we really are - in our outlooks and in our behaviour.
Correct. :)




And even today our nations still have good relationships with each other, and material and cultural exchange hasn't died totally :thumbup
Oh, that's bad.
If i were you, i wouldn't want to have relations with the BRD. ;) :D
And by the way: i don't even consider the BRD as Germany. ;)
The "real" Germany was the "Deutsche Reich" and it ended 1945.




And why to see someone different from you, when he's not anyway ;)
Exactly. :)




German-Finnish brotherhood!
Yep! :thumbup







Unfortunately what i have found from skadi is that.

Many germans dont care about Finland that much.
Well, that's not so wrong... but it's not important - most Germans today are stupid anyway. ;)
It's not important what the brainwashed majority thinks - it's important what the good Germans think. ;)
I know, it's really hard to find good Germans - but at Skadi, most Germans are ok. :D




It is distant nation among others in their minds when we finns generally raise germans a bit higher from the other european nations.

It is unilateral relationship.We love them and germans are neutral.
Yes, and most Germans love jews, turks and other scum. :D
As i said, the majority is not important.
The "good" Germans love the Finns of course. :)




And we have been like shadow from our bigger neighbours - not important.Small and brainless. :D
You sound like a russian. ;)
:D

Mannerheim
Tuesday, May 30th, 2006, 10:57 PM
Oh, that's bad.
If i were you, i wouldn't want to have relations with the BRD. ;) :D
And by the way: i don't even consider the BRD as Germany. ;)
The "real" Germany was the "Deutsche Reich" and it ended 1945.



Yes.After Deutsche Reich,the real german spirit died.:(


Well, that's not so wrong... but it's not important - most Germans today are stupid anyway. ;)
It's not important what the brainwashed majority thinks - it's important what the good Germans think. ;)
I know, it's really hard to find good Germans - but at Skadi, most Germans are ok. :D


In skadi everybody is good cause they think racially. :thumbup and germans of course.




Yes, and most Germans love jews, turks and other scum. :D
As i said, the majority is not important.
The "good" Germans love the Finns of course. :)

Germany seems to be unfortunately brainwashed by multiculturalism at least partly. :|

Good to hear that good germans like/love us. :)




You sound like a russian. ;)
:D


Or at least certain russian. :D

Ahti
Sunday, June 4th, 2006, 09:42 AM
Question:

Will the Finnish subforum be re-opened, or will the conversations on the Germanic influence on Finland be continued here?

Leofric
Sunday, June 4th, 2006, 05:54 PM
Question:

Will the Finnish subforum be re-opened, or will the conversations on the Germanic influence on Finland be continued here?
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=56958


The whole thread is worthwhile for answering the question, but the crux of it is on posts 33 through 35.

Pro-Alpine
Friday, July 7th, 2006, 03:39 AM
why it should not be re-opened

1. Like mentioned before, your not of Germanic roots, not even Indo-European.

2. Lappoid admixture appears to be common, and they are just partly Europid.

3. Your Language sounds quite exotic. My native language is related to Finnish, but it probably has more in common with Germanic languages then Finnish has.

Susisaari
Friday, July 7th, 2006, 03:02 PM
1. Like mentioned before, your not of Germanic roots


"My not of" is not English.



2. Lappoid admixture appears to be common, and they are just partly Europid.


Ha ha. Here we have a Hungarian telling Finns that Finns are not pure Europeans because Finns have "Lappoid admixture". Priceless.



3. Your Language sounds quite exotic. My native language is related to Finnish, but it probably has more in common with Germanic languages then Finnish has.


For the millionth time, Hungarian is as distant from Finnish as Sanskrit is from English.

This does not mean Hungarian is related to Germanic languages. That would be a ridiculous thing to say.

Lissu
Tuesday, July 11th, 2006, 11:01 PM
Ha ha. Here we have a Hungarian telling Finns that Finns are not pure Europeans because Finns have "Lappoid admixture". Priceless.Indeed... :-D:

This "pro-Alpine" ignores the fact that Lappoid is merely a form of Alpine. If Lappoid is non-European, then Alpine proper is propably also.

It's been said that Hungarians are more or less ugrified Slavs (genetically speaking), and it's a fact that their closest language relatives can be found behind the Urals. Of course, compared to that Finns are a bunch of http://www.nordfolk.net/images/smilies/chinese.gif

Oswiu
Tuesday, July 11th, 2006, 11:14 PM
For the millionth time, Hungarian is as distant from Finnish as Sanskrit is from English.
A little more like Etruscan to English.... ;)

Landgar
Wednesday, July 12th, 2006, 10:10 PM
why it should not be re-opened

1. Like mentioned before, your not of Germanic roots, not even Indo-European.
That's a reason why it shouldn't be re-opened in the Germanic section.
But there is no reason why there shouldn't be a Finnish sub-forum at all.
As i said here (http://forums.skadi.net/showpost.php?p=454186&postcount=20):

And there was no reason to delete the Finnish sub-forum.
Yes, it maybe doesn't fit in the "Northern Germanics" section - but delete it?
Why don't move it?
The Slavs have their Vortex, the Celts have their Realm, so why can't the Finns have their... uhm... "thing"? ;)



2. Lappoid admixture appears to be common, and they are just partly Europid.
Lappoid admixture appears in certain areas and some individuals there.
But it's certainly not "common".
The Finns seen as a whole are of course fully European.




3. Your Language sounds quite exotic. My native language is related to Finnish, but it probably has more in common with Germanic languages then Finnish has.
I doubt that.
From what i've heard there is a small Swedish influence in Finnish language.
I'm not aware of any Germanic influence in Hungarian.






This "pro-Alpine" ignores the fact that Lappoid is merely a form of Alpine. If Lappoid is non-European, then Alpine proper is propably also.
Baltid is "a form of Alpine" - but Lappoid not.
There is a mongoloid influence present in Lappoids.

SubGnostic
Wednesday, July 19th, 2006, 02:53 PM
Someone has probably mentioned this already, but here I go. This is a forum regarding GERMANIC cultural and racial preservation. Though the term GERMANIC is frequently used to define race I for myself consider it to be more of a cultural and linguistical term. Linguistically and actually culturally (referring to pre-christian times) we are not that germanic, as the "Viking culture" of the western and southern coasts of Finland was merely an external influence. Plus, Finnish language doesn't even fall into the Indo-European language family. You're probably one of the many Finns bedazzled by the German-Finnish alliance in WWII. Germany was also allied with Japan.

Mannerheim
Wednesday, July 19th, 2006, 10:50 PM
Someone has probably mentioned this already, but here I go. This is a forum regarding GERMANIC cultural and racial preservation. Though the term GERMANIC is frequently used to define race I for myself consider it to be more of a cultural and linguistical term. Linguistically and actually culturally (referring to pre-christian times) we are not that germanic, as the "Viking culture" of the western and southern coasts of Finland was merely an external influence. Plus, Finnish language doesn't even fall into the Indo-European language family. You're probably one of the many Finns bedazzled by the German-Finnish alliance in WWII. Germany was also allied with Japan.

I like germanic cultures but i dont give a f""k if we finns are germanic or if we arent.Only race matters.That i have learned here.So my thread starter is useless.

Why i like Germany?Its obvious that german language is the most powerful and the most beautiful one.I have noticed this and im not even german.I would say that im Pro-German rather than pro-germanic.

I would still like Germany whether Finland had been Germanys enemy from 1939 to 1945.Though i highly doubt that Finland would had tied a pact with Soviet-Russia. More like, die or make pact with russians. And Germany was our only choise and it treated us best from all of its allies.

So,i dont understand that whining in Finland when some f""king commiegreenie idiots yell that nazis were so bad.Without those nazis..there maybe wouldnt be Finland or at least we would had shared the same destiny as baltic states did.

SubGnostic
Thursday, July 20th, 2006, 12:46 AM
So,i dont understand that whining in Finland when some f""king commiegreenie idiots yell that nazis were so bad.Without those nazis..there maybe wouldnt be Finland or at least we would had shared the same destiny as baltic states did.

I agree with you on this. Strangely, peoples attitudes have formed quite hostile towards the Nazis even in Finland, which is, considering our history with communism in our backyard, quite strange. Everywhere you go, everywhere you look at, most times it's Herr Hitler and his regime who are linked with "evil". People have more strong, negative feelings towards the swastika (without even knowing about it's roots, history or what it represents) than towards the hammer & sickle.

Couldn't care less if Finland was germanic or not? You should pay more attention towards culture for it is what defines us as a tribe/folk/nation and creates a bond and holds our identity. You're being too much of a modern person wih that spineless EVVK attitude. I bet you haven't even read Kalevala.

I'll post a little something regarding race and genetic variation compared to the rest of Europe later.

Berliners Remember
Wednesday, August 2nd, 2006, 06:57 PM
very few finns that i have seen look like slavs to me...Finland is considered part of Scandinavia and I think they should have a Finnish Sub-Forum.

Aeternitas
Wednesday, August 2nd, 2006, 07:08 PM
This issue has already been clarified. Please refer to the link Leofric has posted (http://forums.skadi.net/showpost.php?p=449161&postcount=91), for more details.

Thread closed.