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Aeternitas
Sunday, March 12th, 2006, 10:48 AM
This study is a few years old, however tackles a currently still relevant topic in German society. Particularly, it reveals that it is not only "nationalists" who face stigma over their German identity and pride, but also "patriots" (here used in the mainstream sense).


Abstract

This study investigated Germans’ self-reported levels of patriotism, national identity, cultural affiliation, ingroup preferences, and ethnocentrism in order to explore the predictions of social identity theory (SIT) with reference to members of a stigmatized national group. Participants were 795 Germans born either before 1946 or after 1976 and currently residing in six federal states of the former East and West Germany. The data reveal moderate regional and strong generational variation: older people and former East Germans reported overall higher levels of patriotism, national identity, cultural affiliation, ingroup preferences, and ethnocentrism, relative to younger Germans and to former West Germans. The results also challenge SIT by demonstrating that Germans can positively identify with their nation and culture without inevitably exhibiting national chauvinism.

Excerpts

This investigation examines patriotism, national identity, cultural affiliation, ingroup preferences, and ethnocentrism reported by older and younger Germans from various regions in the former East and West Germany....

The data reveal moderate regional and strong generational variation in attitudes toward German identity. Older people and former East Germans reported higher levels of pride and lower levels of shame in their national identity, as well as less of a desire to disidentify as German, relative to the younger cohort and former West Germans.

Geographic location was found to have a secondary bearing on these four national identity indices. Regional variance between cities was non-significant among the older cohort and relatively minimal among the younger cohort. The East-West distinction did produce significant variance in dimensions of German identity, with former East Germans reporting more pride than former West Germans, a result that was highly significant overall. Conversely, East Germans reported significantly more shame than West Germans...

To summarize, the main findings of this investigation were that (1) generational cohort was a strong predictor of the ways in which Germans relate to their national identity, that (2) geographic location also played a part— albeit a smaller one—in shaping people’s level of pride in that identity and desire to renounce it in favor of another, and that (3) many of the variables surrounding aspects of patriotism versus implied nationalism proved separable....

The data suggest that younger Germans relate less positively to their national identity than older Germans. A congruent finding is that older individuals were much more likely than younger people to agree that “German culture has had a positive impact” on their lives. This is not to say that younger Germans were markedly unhappy with their identity, but that they were less likely to have an actively positive identification as Germans.

Taken together, these findings suggest a trend and possibly even a trajectory in German identity, such that with time Germans are becoming less proud or contented and more critical when they think about national identity....

As for the regional variation in dimensions of national identity, former East Germans reported more pride and more shame than former West Germans, a somewhat counterintuitive result. The higher level of shame among former East Germans, however, is significant only within the younger cohort. This discrepancy suggests that something—like having to suddenly confront war guilt after decades of projecting Nazism, militarism, and genocide onto West Germany—caused young former East Germans to feel more shame in their national identity than their older counterparts or the former West Germans. The higher levels of pride reported by former East Germans could perhaps be related to their greater happiness over the German Reunification relative to former West Germans, although that effect, too, is specific to the younger cohort. In short, former East Germans on the whole were prouder to be German than their Western counterparts, while the Eastern youth were both more ashamed of that identity and happier about the Reunification.
Source (http://web.archive.org/web/20100711082815/http://surj.stanford.edu/archives/2003-05GermanNational.html)

Siegmund
Thursday, March 16th, 2006, 11:04 PM
Interesting study. But I found it sad that it confirmed a gradual disintegration of German identity:


The data suggest that younger Germans relate less positively to their national identity than older Germans. ... Taken together, these findings suggest a trend and possibly even a trajectory in German identity, such that with time Germans are becoming less proud or contented and more critical when they think about national identity.
It's also telling that the framework of this very recent study is the postwar straitjacket of imputed German guilt and shame. Any movement in the direction of German ethnic consciousness and pride is seen as evil:


Especially in light of twentieth-century German history, choosing to endorse the military’s “accomplishments” or the national anthem, which remains “Deutschland über Alles” (albeit with the more objectionable stanzas now unsung), represents a highly controversial political move that may suggest a lack of concern with German wrong-doing or responsibility for its past. Moreover, self-reported patriotism was related to ethnocentrism and/or xenophobia: pride in German identity correlated negatively with endorsement of immigrants’ contributions to German culture (r=.27) at a extremely significant level (p<.001).

Theudiskaz
Thursday, March 16th, 2006, 11:55 PM
It's also telling that the framework of this very recent study is the postwar straitjacket of imputed German guilt and shame. Any movement in the direction of German ethnic consciousness and pride is seen as evil

Definitely. If you are German, which I'm guessing you might be, do you think most young Germans are truly ashamed of their nation or do they not speak candidly because they're simply afraid to be branded "racists" or "Nazis" by the Jewish-controlled mainstream culture?

Siegmund
Friday, March 17th, 2006, 12:13 AM
Definitely. If you are German, which I'm guessing you might be, do you think most young Germans are truly ashamed of their nation or do they not speak candidly because they're simply afraid to be branded "racists" or "Nazis" by the Jewish-controlled mainstream culture?
I am only part German, so I am not really qualified to answer. But from a distance, I can tell you that most of my German friends are too busy trying to find and keep decent jobs - the economy in Germany is very difficult - than to have much of an opinion on these issues. But that's just my small circle. I too would be interested in what Germans think about your question.

BritishKnight
Friday, April 21st, 2006, 08:29 AM
Definitely. If you are German, which I'm guessing you might be, do you think most young Germans are truly ashamed of their nation or do they not speak candidly because they're simply afraid to be branded "racists" or "Nazis" by the Jewish-controlled mainstream culture?

As I was born in Germany and brought up there as well, I can say most of the German youngsters are not that ashamed of their past and heritage as sometimes portrayed by the constantly lyin' media (though, that certainly varies form region to region!;) )! It's merely the multi-cult media brainwashing them with crap like MTV, VIVA etc. and their idea of groovy, non-white gansta-rapa-style! And now as the World Championship is bein' held in Germany, nearly everywhere you can see the phony-patriotism-effect enwraped into Black-Red-Gold, which surely will be over after the event as fast as it has appeared, anyway!:thumbdown Instead of standin' up to their masters, defyin' the brainwashing and flyin' Black-White-Red proudly, the German people are just fallin' for another honeytrap of the NeoCons ie letting themselves bein' twitted by phony Merkel and her cronies!:( It's now just wicked to be a part of multi-culti-BRD-Germany, that's all!:thumbdown

Siggtryg
Tuesday, May 16th, 2006, 08:36 PM
Guten Tag,

I would say, that an ever growing part of german youngsters
nowadys is reaching a pretty normal level of patriotic feelings.

The results of the indoctrination that takes place in school are .. i would say contraproductiv ( is that spelled right? ) .. people just dont want to hear it again and again and over again that their grandfathers were criminals for fighting against, well lets say, almost the rest of the world.

Of course you still have some younger people, running of to every "omg, im sooooo fucking ashamed of.. what was it again ? ja right im ashamed that people got killed some 60 years ago and that my grandfather potentially might have been involved in it"-demonstrations.

I mean wtf ? There was a war ok ?

Those people are the same that spray stuff like : Deutschland muss sterben..(Germany must die) on the walls. But if you tell them : You dont like it here ? Ok, feel free to go ! They just look at you and start brabeling about how "cool" it is that everybody, from whatever place, may come to Germany and live of our taxes.

...ok seems like I m a little off topic now..i rather stop

ok

Gruß

S.

Teutonic
Friday, May 26th, 2006, 10:17 PM
i am moving to Deutschland in 5 months, i have been talking to a number of Germans on the internet and a lot of them are very proud to be German. i think any true German is very proud of their culture some just need to see all the great things our people have done and contributed to the world at hand.the Maybe one day the German government will be as great and honorable as the people it governs.untill then the stuggle continues. DEUTSCHLAND OVER EVERYTHING!!!!

demdeutschenvolke
Saturday, May 27th, 2006, 04:07 AM
i am moving to Deutschland in 5 months, i have been talking to a number of Germans on the internet and a lot of them are very proud to be German. i think any true German is very proud of their culture some just need to see all the great things our people have done and contributed to the world at hand.the Maybe one day the German government will be as great and honorable as the people it governs.untill then the stuggle continues. DEUTSCHLAND OVER EVERYTHING!!!!

I certainly would agree that any true German should be very proud of his/her nation and culture, yet the stigma remains. As Volksdeutsche from the USA, I find that the contributions of ethnic Germans there (and elsewhere) can be found everywhere, yet the achievements of our ancestors have, in some ways, gone unrecognized due to "political correctness."

Mit deutschem Gruß,
ddv

Teutonic
Monday, May 29th, 2006, 11:14 PM
We are very proud people, we have for the most part be silent and PC for the last 50-60 years, in america and the VATERLAND, but for thousands before that the German voice was heard. it is slowly here in the states turning around i see it everywhere in Minnesota where i am from ethnic Germans learning about their culture with renewed loyalty and pride.i hope when i visit the fatherland that i see some signs of it as well.

in us and our childrens hearts, Germany will live on forever.

demdeutschenvolke
Tuesday, May 30th, 2006, 07:27 AM
We are very proud people, we have for the most part be silent and PC for the last 50-60 years, in america and the VATERLAND, but for thousands before that the German voice was heard. it is slowly here in the states turning around i see it everywhere in Minnesota where i am from ethnic Germans learning about their culture with renewed loyalty and pride.i hope when i visit the fatherland that i see some signs of it as well.

in us and our childrens hearts, Germany will live on forever.


I'm actually not from the Midwest, but indeed, I would definitely call it one of several key cradles of the rebirth of the ethnic German identity and influence.

Auf die Deutschen!
ddv

Teutonic
Tuesday, May 30th, 2006, 09:07 PM
I'm actually not from the Midwest, but indeed, I would definitely call it one of several key cradles of the rebirth of the ethnic German identity and influence.

i know you are not from the midwest. when i said our people are proud i meant every person with German blood, because no matter where they are in the great and beautiful fatherland, or america they are all my brothers and sisters.and nothing means so much as blood. take care kamrade.

Auf die Deutschen!

Stone
Sunday, March 18th, 2007, 03:27 PM
heil
if you come to germany,
you will be see many things taht you can't believe,
like so many turkey and the wohlemulticulti
it is really sad,
but i thing we are going to stand up!!
mkg