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Parzifal_
Thursday, October 16th, 2003, 09:03 AM
Here is a test for all you physical anthropology officionados and wannabees. Lets see what a simple photograph can tell you with no other information. Is he Greek, Spanish, French, Italian, Arab...? Is he dolicocephalic (to use Coon's vernacular), Dinaric (whatever that means). Give me your best shot.

Evolved
Thursday, October 16th, 2003, 09:48 AM
You can't tell if he's dolicocephalic or not because it is not a profile pic. And he's smiling, so his features are distorted. He doesn't look Dinaric or like any Spaniards I've seen. He looks Armenoid/Med.

I'm not going to guess ethnicity because he's probably "100% [insert unlikely European country name here]". :)

Parzifal_
Thursday, October 16th, 2003, 10:01 AM
These are more pictures of the same gentleman. Yes he does look quite different in both pictures but I thought it might help you venture a guess.




You can't tell if he's dolicocephalic or not because it is not a profile pic. And he's smiling, so his features are distorted. He doesn't look Dinaric or like any Spaniards I've seen. He looks Armenoid/Med.

I'm not going to guess ethnicity because he's probably "100% [insert unlikely European country name here]". :)

Evolved
Thursday, October 16th, 2003, 10:12 AM
Yeah, he's brachycephalic and some might look at that with his sloping forehead and automatically classify him as "Dinaric." I think he's a Mediterranean who has been "Dinaricized" via Armenoid, but I don't think he looks like a European Dinaric type that you'd see in Southeast Hungary for example.

I like the shape of his head. He's kind of cute. :D

Parzifal_
Thursday, October 16th, 2003, 10:23 AM
I'm new to this parlance. What exactly does "a Mediterranean who has been "Dinaricized" via Armenoid, but I don't think he looks like a European Dinaric type that you'd see in Southeast Hungary for example." mean? Are "Dinarics" Caucasian or European? Where would you say he is from if you ran into him in the street?




Yeah, he's brachycephalic and some might look at that with his sloping forehead and automatically classify him as "Dinaric." I think he's a Mediterranean who has been "Dinaricized" via Armenoid, but I don't think he looks like a European Dinaric type that you'd see in Southeast Hungary for example.

I like the shape of his head. He's kind of cute. :D

Evolved
Thursday, October 16th, 2003, 10:50 AM
Dinarics (http://www.white-history.com/earlson/hfk/reoehchap2c.htm) are Caucasian and European. :)

I've heard 2 theories on Dinarics:


They are a blend of Med - Alpine - Nordic
They are Neolithic - Armenoid


Armenoids are Alpinized Irano-Afghans.

Here are my guesses:

If he's European he's likely from somewhere in Southeast Europe where people of Iranic descent settled. If he's Central European, he could be an Avar descendant. If he's Hungarian he could be a Jász (http://www.iranian.com/Jan96/Features/SearchingForUs.html). But he could be from any Mediterranean country. He could be Palestinian.

Those are my best theories. So, what is he, a pure blooded Scot? ;)

Awar
Thursday, October 16th, 2003, 11:40 AM
I've heard thatDinarics are a stabilized blend of 2/3 Med and 1/3 Alpine... of course, we're speaking about tall Meds, because Dinarics are very tall on average.

Loki
Thursday, October 16th, 2003, 11:49 AM
If he's Hungarian he could be a Jász (http://www.iranian.com/Jan96/Features/SearchingForUs.html).

Interesting link. I have been to the Jász region in Hungary, still centred around Jászbereny. I don't think they are dark at all... Most people I have seen there, have been fairish skinned (although maybe with an olive tinge), quite brachycephalic and light eyed. Not even much of a deviation from the regular ethnic Magyars... The Jász have been fully assimilated (racially) into the host Magyar population, although many of them are still proud bearers of their unique culture. I think they are somewhat Turanicized, according to my observation - perhaps more so than the average Magyar.

Dienekes_Pontikos
Thursday, October 16th, 2003, 01:44 PM
Here is a test for all you physical anthropology officionados and wannabees. Lets see what a simple photograph can tell you with no other information. Is he Greek, Spanish, French, Italian, Arab...? Is he dolicocephalic (to use Coon's vernacular), Dinaric (whatever that means). Give me your best shot.

Out of that list, my first guess is French, second guess Spanish, third guess Italian.

Loki
Thursday, October 16th, 2003, 01:52 PM
Out of that list, my first guess is French, second guess Spanish, third guess Italian.

He looks too dark for an average Frenchman to me... but if from France, he would be from the extreme south - Marseilles area, a more heterogenous Mediterranean complex.

Allenson
Thursday, October 16th, 2003, 01:59 PM
Yup, this guy certainly trends in the Dinaric/Med direction. I don't think many would confuse this fellow with say...an Alpine, Baltid, Nord, NW Brunn or a host of many other types.

Interestingly enough, he does show a certain ruggedness visible in the hefty brow, sunken eyes and considerable nasion depression which are all clearly visible in the excellent profile photo.

The "Dinaricness" is evident in the long face, flattened occiput and the apparent brunette pigmentation of hair, eyes and skin tone.

My first impression is that he likely hails from somewhere SE of Europe 'proper' but as LG put it so well, he'll probably be a Scot or maybe even a Dane! :-O

I'm teasing of course. All in good fun. :)

Vojvoda
Thursday, October 16th, 2003, 03:01 PM
The "Dinaricness" is evident in the long face, flattened occiput and the apparent brunette pigmentation of hair, eyes and skin tone.

I second that.

Awar
Thursday, October 16th, 2003, 03:57 PM
He's some sort of Med+Alpine mixture... it resulted in his dinaric-ness......but I'm interested in what exact Mediterranean types did take part here. I think there have been Atlanto-Med, Paleo-Atlantid and even some sort of Greek mediterranean ( east ) plus Alpine on top of all that.

I guess he is from Marseilles, because only there could all these types have met.

Awar
Thursday, October 16th, 2003, 04:21 PM
I'd also add that I'm unsure of his pigmentation, since the quality of colors on the photo are sort of bad.

Vojvoda
Thursday, October 16th, 2003, 04:23 PM
I'd also add that I'm unsure of his pigmentation, since the quality of colors on the photo are sort of bad.

the first pic seems good.

cosmocreator
Thursday, October 16th, 2003, 06:58 PM
He looks Middle Eastern, I'd say Iranian. He doesn't belong in Europe.

Evolved
Friday, October 17th, 2003, 05:19 AM
Tell us what he is, I'm dying to know the truth! :D

Awar
Friday, October 17th, 2003, 05:21 AM
He's an Eskimo!

Evolved
Friday, October 17th, 2003, 05:32 AM
He's probably Israeli, now everyone is going to think I'm more of a perv for thinking his head is cute! :naughty

Parzifal_
Friday, October 17th, 2003, 07:09 AM
He's not Iranian and, by the way Cosmo, going by the picture of yours, you on the other hand could pass for Iranian QUITE EASILY. If you put that picture in an Iranian newspaper with the name "Ali Hashmi" (or something) nobody would blink...except maybe in pity at your premature balding (just kidding!).
I will disclose his heritage soon but I am really finding the feedback interesting...so do continue conjecturing for a little longer. He is European if you need a clue. LG33 - he is not Israeli but would it make you a perv if he were? The Ashkenazim have a considerable pool of European genes and some are more "Nordic" than many North Europeans.
Keep 'em coming.




He looks Middle Eastern, I'd say Iranian. He doesn't belong in Europe.

Evolved
Friday, October 17th, 2003, 07:52 AM
:scratch Maybe I'm wrong about Armenoid.. hmmm.. maybe he's just a Dinaricized Mediterranean. My guess is he's Ukrainian. ;)

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3837

:inlove :heartbeat

:hush Don't tell anyone, but I find some types of Mediterraneans very attractive. ;)

Parzifal_
Friday, October 17th, 2003, 08:03 AM
LG, I won't tell anyone - your secret is safe with me. He is not Ukrainian. Why is this gentleman so hard to classify? I have seen guesses about him that pretty much put him everywhere in Caucasoid territory except Nordic (which he clearly is not). Is his look so unusual?


:scratch Maybe I'm wrong about Armenoid.. hmmm.. maybe he's just a Dinaricized Mediterranean. My guess is he's Ukrainian. ;)

http://www.forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3837

:inlove :heartbeat

:hush Don't tell anyone, but I find some types of Mediterraneans very attractive. ;)

Loki
Friday, October 17th, 2003, 09:25 AM
:hush Don't tell anyone, but I find some types of Mediterraneans very attractive. ;)

Don't worry, you're not the only fair girl who thinks so - judging from what I have seen.

Pomor
Friday, October 17th, 2003, 10:43 AM
I'd say this guy looks like if he was from Turkey or Azerbajan.

Vojvoda
Friday, October 17th, 2003, 02:28 PM
Whats the big secrect? You are a Dinarid, could be From Albania,France, etc.

AnthropologyNotRacism
Friday, October 17th, 2003, 08:12 PM
xc

Parzifal_
Friday, October 17th, 2003, 10:47 PM
xc

Like I told Ladygoeth33, he is not Israeli and not Jewish. Dinaric yes. Its no "big secret". I just want to see if anyone here gets to see the point - with so much conjecture placing him everywhere on Caucasoid topography...is there really a point to the minutiae of these sub-classifications or is it just some wistful hearkening to a hope. A hope that there may be some deep truth to these subclassifications? The idea of typology has always been fraught with the dangers of over-simplification, unsubstantiated surmising and gross bias.

One could easily dismiss the notions of the supposed mental aptitudes of the "sub-races" as determined more by socio-politico-cultural milieus of these populations. Case in point - Germany East and West: The population of both spheres were genetically identical but vastly different in their post-Communist fortunes. That was due to socio-political circumstance not a retrogessed racial aptitude. The same argument could be graphically made between nations in South East Asia for instance. I agree that races differ in their concentrations of IQ (see the Bell-curve question) and that Caucasoids and Asians ("Mongoloid" just sounds too creepy to me, sorry) are phenomenally advanced with respect to other ethnic taxons, however I don't hear often enough in this forum (brief as I have been here) the contribution of other powerful determinants such as culture in the fortunes of nations.

Anyway back to my original point. The sub-race angle is too fraught with blind spots in my view to be useful as tool in understanding race. It is perhaps a fanciful Nordic-intellectualist take on what is primarily a cultural phenomenon. OK back to my gentleman - toss me a few more guesses and this evening, when Ladygoeth33 logs on I'll let you know where he hails from. I'm waiting for her because she has a (little) crush on him (Mon Dieu et Ooh la la!)

Parzifal_
Friday, October 17th, 2003, 11:00 PM
BTW what happened to your avatar, Cosmo!? I was jut kidding about your hair..honest!

Nordischer Beobachter
Friday, October 17th, 2003, 11:10 PM
Here is a test for all you physical anthropology officionados and wannabees. Lets see what a simple photograph can tell you with no other information. Is he Greek, Spanish, French, Italian, Arab...? Is he dolicocephalic (to use Coon's vernacular), Dinaric (whatever that means). Give me your best shot.

its italian

Evolved
Saturday, October 18th, 2003, 04:11 AM
Is he French? ;)

Awar
Saturday, October 18th, 2003, 04:21 AM
I already proposed that the man is French....but there was no reply, so...I guess I was wrong.

Parzifal_
Saturday, October 18th, 2003, 04:58 AM
I already proposed that the man is French....but there was no reply, so...I guess I was wrong.

Yes to all who guessed France. The gentleman is indeed French from the Southern city of Beziers. He is not of immigrant stock and apparently of peasant/farmer heritage. Thank you for all the interesting input...and LG33, you don't have to feel weird now that you thought his head was cute!
Merci a tous.

Awar
Saturday, October 18th, 2003, 05:09 AM
I said that he's probably from Marseilles, is that near Beziers? In his phenotype I see three different Mediterranean types which could only have mixed in France, plus Alpine.

Parzifal_
Saturday, October 18th, 2003, 05:15 AM
I said that he's probably from Marseilles, is that near Beziers? In his phenotype I see three different Mediterranean types which could only have mixed in France, plus Alpine.

Awar, you were right on with France. Beziers is in the South of France and is indeed relatively close to Marseilles.

Dienekes_Pontikos
Saturday, October 18th, 2003, 05:21 AM
His facial expression was a giveaway, and placed him with certainty west of the Adriatic.

Parzifal_
Saturday, October 18th, 2003, 08:31 AM
I said that he's probably from Marseilles, is that near Beziers? In his phenotype I see three different Mediterranean types which could only have mixed in France, plus Alpine.

Please share your thoughts on the different types you see in him. How do you explain how this happened.

cosmocreator
Saturday, October 18th, 2003, 08:52 PM
He's not Iranian and, by the way Cosmo, going by the picture of yours, you on the other hand could pass for Iranian QUITE EASILY.


Given how mixed the world has become I could fit in pretty much anywhere. My type is very old and has lived in Europe longer than most other types. I belong to Europe. This guy belongs in the Middle East.

And btw, I didn't take down my photo because of your comment. I left Skadi for about 12 hours but intended to leave for good because of all the stupid people signing up here.

Pomor
Saturday, October 18th, 2003, 09:09 PM
Given how mixed the world has become I could fit in pretty much anywhere. My type is very old and has lived in Europe longer than most other types. I belong to Europe. This guy belongs in the Middle East.

And btw, I didn't take down my photo because of your comment. I left Skadi for about 12 hours but intended to leave for good because of all the stupid people signing up here.

Why not just ban all the obvious retards?

Awar
Saturday, October 18th, 2003, 09:14 PM
Please share your thoughts on the different types you see in him. How do you explain how this happened.

He has characteristics I've seen in small-framed Greek Mediterraneans.
He also has some characteristics of tall Spanish Mediterraneans, plus one more mediterranean type in addition I can't exactly put my finger on, perhaps an Italian Dinaricized-Mediterranean, but I'm not 100% sure.

I guessed that all these types could be found in southern France, since the historical movements of Iberrians, Greek colonies, Roman conquests etc.

cosmocreator
Saturday, October 18th, 2003, 09:17 PM
Why not just ban all the obvious retards?


Because most of the retards coming here are Meds and if I do that I'll be (and Skadi will be) called anti-Med. To me being called anti-Med is like being called anti-Semite. Doesn't effect me one way or the other. But the owner of this board doesn't want to give the impression of being anti-Med.

Pomor
Saturday, October 18th, 2003, 09:21 PM
Because most of the retards coming here are Meds and if I do that I'll be (and Skadi will be) called anti-Med. To me being called anti-Med is like being called anti-Semite. Doesn't effect me one way or the other. But the owner of this board doesn't want to give the impression of being anti-Med.

Yeah, I see. There is a couple of non-Med however.

cosmocreator
Saturday, October 18th, 2003, 09:23 PM
Yeah, I see. There is a couple of non-Med however.


Plus if I ban someone I have to give a reason. The rules of this board do not restrict retards as far as I know.

Loki
Saturday, October 18th, 2003, 09:24 PM
Yeah, I see. There is a couple of non-Med however.

We are banning obvious trolls as they come along, regardless of ethnicity/subtype. I think this weekend we may have banned more than 5 troublemaking posters. This will be a decision of the moderators and administration of Skadi.

Pomor
Saturday, October 18th, 2003, 09:25 PM
We are banning obvious trolls as they come along, regardless of ethnicity/subtype. I think this weekend we may have banned more than 5 troublemaking posters. This will be a decision of the moderators and administration of Skadi.

Yes, I understand that.

Ominous Lord Spoonblade
Saturday, October 18th, 2003, 09:45 PM
Another Frenchman :D :

http://www.jimtardio.com/paris-bw-accordian-big.jpg


Cosmo, how can you say that someone like him doesn't belong in EUROPE where there are many people who look quite similiar to him spread all across Europe? (that are indigenous Europeans) Meds are people too LOL

Look, here's a spaniard :eek http://www.thelastselten.com/ewan_mcgregor.jpg :lol

There are some people that I might agree with that they don't appear to belong in Europe...this man though?

Parzifal_
Sunday, October 19th, 2003, 05:36 AM
Given how mixed the world has become I could fit in pretty much anywhere. My type is very old and has lived in Europe longer than most other types. I belong to Europe. This guy belongs in the Middle East.

And btw, I didn't take down my photo because of your comment. I left Skadi for about 12 hours but intended to leave for good because of all the stupid people signing up here.

Follow the thread Cosmo. I've already disclosed that the man is French as many people in the thread had already guessed. Incidentally what is this type you belong to that "has lived in Europe longer than most other types"? Pray tell where and in which rarefied homeland was it sequestered unchanged and unaffected by the usual historic traffic of genes through trade, warfare, climactic circumstance etc.? Like I said before and which you acknowledge, your cranio-facial type (going by that never-to-be-seen again avatar) is relatively common all througout Europe and West Asia i.e. the historic Indo-European belt of peoples and languages.

cosmocreator
Sunday, October 19th, 2003, 08:20 AM
Follow the thread Cosmo. I've already disclosed that the man is French as many people in the thread had already guessed. Incidentally what is this type you belong to that "has lived in Europe longer than most other types"? Pray tell where and in which rarefied homeland was it sequestered unchanged and unaffected by the usual historic traffic of genes through trade, warfare, climactic circumstance etc.? Like I said before and which you acknowledge, your cranio-facial type (going by that never-to-be-seen again avatar) is relatively common all througout Europe and West Asia i.e. the historic Indo-European belt of peoples and languages.


The guy doesn't belong in Europe. He shouldn't live anywhere west of Turkey. That's my opinion. If others see nothing wrong with his type moving from the Middle East to Europe, then I think they have faulty thinking. Arabs have been moving in droves to France. This guy is one of them. I'm sure a genetic test would show the correlation.

As for me, I'm almost totally Upper Paleolithic. The small amount that isn't UP, is Nordic.

Johnny Reb
Sunday, October 19th, 2003, 08:23 AM
The following attachment is 4 generations. I'm the baby.

Can't see any attachment

cosmocreator
Sunday, October 19th, 2003, 08:25 AM
Can't see any attachment


I couldn't get it to work. I'll try again later.

Parzifal_
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 05:40 PM
The guy doesn't belong in Europe. He shouldn't live anywhere west of Turkey. That's my opinion. If others see nothing wrong with his type moving from the Middle East to Europe, then I think they have faulty thinking. Arabs have been moving in droves to France. This guy is one of them. I'm sure a genetic test would show the correlation.

As for me, I'm almost totally Upper Paleolithic. The small amount that isn't UP, is Nordic.

Look Cosmo, for the last time, the man is FRENCH, fully FRENCH. He is of FRENCH heritage, of peasant/farmer stock and has been so for generations before any Arabs set foot in France (Historically there never had been any significant colonization of France by Moors). Deal with it. He is not of Arab origin. You freely assume this about him with no evidence other than your own prejudice.

FYI "Upper Paleolithic" is not a type it is a time. You're reaching desperately here with these fanciful descriptions of yourself, I must say. Like I said quite clearly in my previous posts, you have a very generic appearance that would be very much at home inside and outside of Europe as well, for instance, anywhere in west Asia like Iran, Turkey, the Middle East and the Caucasus. Now you can ruminate on the subtleties of your cranio-facial indeces but in broad terms you are simply a generic Caucasoid with light skin and pigmented hair. Phenotypic equivalents to yourself may be found in Eastern Europe, West Asia and anywhere in Caucasoid territory barring India.

Somehow you prefer to see Europe as a closed sphere genetically. That reflects a very weak knowledge of Indo-European history. I am also almost positive that you know pitifully little of the Indo-European family of languages and probably think that any IE language outside of Europe got there by magic, borrowing or conquest....not by the fact that Indo-Europeans may have been there for thousands of years speaking a mother tongue (Proto-Indo-European) that gave bith to most modern IE languages.

As for genetic testing please tell me which tests you are referring to. I have a medical background and have been following the trends in haplotypic amd MtDNA studies of ethnicity. If you knew anything about such tests you would know that Europe is NOT a closed sphere genetically. You would also know that there are belts of allelic/genotypic clusters do not follow the tight political boundaries we would like them to therefore to suggest that the man would defined as "Arab" through such tests is IGNORANCE. If that were the case many hundreds of thousands of Europeans would also turn out to be Arab and vice versa. You might turn out to be one yourself given the nature of MtDNA durability over thousands of years. Boy, that would be a nightmare for you Cosmo, huh!?

cosmocreator
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 06:25 PM
If you're going to be retarded I will ban you. Upper Paleolithic is a type as well as a time period. French, is a language.



Look Cosmo, for the last time, the man is FRENCH, fully FRENCH. He is of FRENCH heritage, of peasant/farmer stock and has been so for generations before any Arabs set foot in France (Historically there never had been any significant colonization of France by Moors). Deal with it. He is not of Arab origin. You freely assume this about him with no evidence other than your own prejudice.

FYI "Upper Paleolithic" is not a type it is a time. You're reaching desperately here with these fanciful descriptions of yourself, I must say. Like I said quite clearly in my previous posts, you have a very generic appearance that would be very much at home inside and outside of Europe as well, for instance, anywhere in west Asia like Iran, Turkey, the Middle East and the Caucasus. Now you can ruminate on the subtleties of your cranio-facial indeces but in broad terms you are simply a generic Caucasoid with light skin and pigmented hair. Phenotypic equivalents to yourself may be found in Eastern Europe, West Asia and anywhere in Caucasoid territory barring India.

Somehow you prefer to see Europe as a closed sphere genetically. That reflects a very weak knowledge of Indo-European history. I am also almost positive that you know pitifully little of the Indo-European family of languages and probably think that any IE language outside of Europe got there by magic, borrowing or conquest....not by the fact that Indo-Europeans may have been there for thousands of years speaking a mother tongue (Proto-Indo-European) that gave bith to most modern IE languages.

As for genetic testing please tell me which tests you are referring to. I have a medical background and have been following the trends in haplotypic amd MtDNA studies of ethnicity. If you knew anything about such tests you would know that Europe is NOT a closed sphere genetically. You would also know that there are belts of allelic/genotypic clusters do not follow the tight political boundaries we would like them to therefore to suggest that the man would defined as "Arab" through such tests is IGNORANCE. If that were the case many hundreds of thousands of Europeans would also turn out to be Arab and vice versa. You might turn out to be one yourself given the nature of MtDNA durability over thousands of years. Boy, that would be a nightmare for you Cosmo, huh!?

Parzifal_
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 06:47 PM
If you're going to be retarded I will ban you. Upper Paleolithic is a type as well as a time period. French, is a language.

Watch the name calling Cosmo. Just because you are a moderator does not mean you can be high-handed. I am making sound intelligent argument here and take offense to your labelling me as a retard. You do not own the forum and should be be mature enough to discuss things with a cool head. If "Upper Paleolithic" is a distinct racial type as you indicate then please provide some hard-core anthropological evidence (not excerpts from "March of the Titans"). A picture for comparison would help. I know that French is not a race. I disclosed his gegraphic location by expressing that he was French. That was obvious to everyone. Racially the man is Caucasoid and Dinaric/Meditarannean. However you want to put him or yourself into the stone-age ("Palaeolithic") scheme of things is up to you but like I said, Europe is NOTa closed sphere genetically.

cosmocreator
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 07:53 PM
Watch the name calling Cosmo. Just because you are a moderator does not mean you can be high-handed. I am making sound intelligent argument here and take offense to your labelling me as a retard. You do not own the forum and should be be mature enough to discuss things with a cool head. If "Upper Paleolithic" is a distinct racial type as you indicate then please provide some hard-core anthropological evidence (not excerpts from "March of the Titans"). A picture for comparison would help. I know that French is not a race. I disclosed his gegraphic location by expressing that he was French. That was obvious to everyone. Racially the man is Caucasoid and Dinaric/Meditarannean. However you want to put him or yourself into the stone-age ("Palaeolithic") scheme of things is up to you but like I said, Europe is NOTa closed sphere genetically.


I assume you have some personal interest in that guy being classified as European. Is it you?

Upper Paleolithic types are Brunn, Borreby, Falish and Alpinid.

http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/rg-brunn.htm
http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/rg-borreby.html
http://www.white-history.com/earlson/hfk/reoehchap2d.htm

Parzifal_
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 09:51 PM
I assume you have some personal interest in that guy being classified as European. Is it you?

Upper Paleolithic types are Brunn, Borreby, Falish and Alpinid.

http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/rg-brunn.htm
http://www.fikas.no/~sprocket/snpa/rg-borreby.html
http://www.white-history.com/earlson/hfk/reoehchap2d.htm

Thanks for the links. The first 2 are useful, the last isn't really. Skulls are useful in defining race and subrace but probably not at all valuable in suggesting skin color and other phenotypic traits that rapidly mutate(over a few thousand years) under climactic stresses. Putting aside these mutable traits those same skulls may have their metric equivalents in many places in along the Indo-European belt of genes and languages i.e including outside present day Europe.

I have no personal interest in him being European. He just happens to be one...a very "real" one, and no, Cosmo, it is not I. I will try to find other photographs of Europeans that don't fit a narrow "mold" but are quite European. Earlier in the thread Vanessa posted such a picture.

cosmocreator
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 09:55 PM
I will try to find other photographs of Europeans that don't fit a narrow "mold" but are quite European.


That depends how you want to define European racially. I don't view swarthy Meds as European.

Parzifal_
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 09:59 PM
That depends how you want to define European racially. I don't view swarthy Meds as European.

"Swarthy meds" huh? You've got issues, Cosmo. Good luck with therapy. BTW, please share with us all YOUR personal idea of Europe's boundaries, perhaps a map by yourself.

alpinidwarrior
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 10:02 PM
This guy seems to be non-european in ancestry. The skin is simply too dark. He would fit in well in Turkey or Syria or maybe Albania , but not France. I have seen fellows like him who are of Moroccan ancestry.
I agree with you that Cosmo is a very generic caucasian type. From his photograph he is definitely a white man, but not exclusively European in type. I have seen folks who look like him from France, Greece, Turkey, Iran and Iraq. I have seen Indians (i work in a civil engineering firm) who look like Cosmo, except that they have rounder and deeper set eyes and are a shade darker.

cosmocreator
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 10:21 PM
"Swarthy meds" huh? You've got issues, Cosmo. Good luck with therapy. BTW, please share with us all YOUR personal idea of Europe's boundaries, perhaps a map by yourself.


The only issue I have is people like you claiming swarthy types as Europeans. The guy's hair is coarse black, his eyes are black, and his skin is brownish. You've been shunned for a week. Be grateful I didn't ban you forever.

Awar
Wednesday, October 22nd, 2003, 11:24 PM
Well.......I thought the guy was french, because he looked french to me.

cosmocreator
Thursday, October 23rd, 2003, 12:01 AM
They do; the latter are disqualified by their contributions' lack of relevance, quality, sincerity, and/or civility.

The rules should be reformulated soon to emphasize certain important points. It will in particular be made clear that nobody has a right to be on this board; it is a private discussion forum, and up to the administration alone who will be admitted and who enjoys the privilege to write. The minimum criteria will be legality, seriosity, quality, relevance, civility, politeness, good-will, &c. Within these borders any controversial opinion can be uttered or debated. Skadi Forum is a free speech discussion board for (higher) civilized, self-disciplined men with manners, values, virtues, knowledge and intelligence. We have no interest in the effusions of the lunatic fringe and similar creatures.

And yes, this board is not anti-Mediterranean, nor is it anti-Alpine, anti-Nordic, or anti-Dinaric; banning 5 Mediterraneans in a row because they coincidentally all happen to bless us with mentally retarded contributions doesn't make you "anti-Med", though. Nor would it make you anti-blue-eyes if their eyes would turn out to be exclusively blue. It makes you (justifiedly) a protector of the quality standards of this board, however.

Kind regards,

- Thorburn


I appreciate hearing from you on the subject because I was starting to wonder whether others were starting to think I was being too harsh.

I think it's very simple to answer. Just ask yourself of a poster and his posts whether they promote European Culture, Racial and Spiritual Preservation as the header on the board states.

Dienekes_Pontikos
Thursday, October 23rd, 2003, 01:40 AM
There are fundamentally two alternatives to specifying "who looks European".

Alternative #1 is to have an a priori definition of what "a European looks like". Individuals are judged against this definition, and those who don't match it are deemed "non-European looking".

Alternative #2 is to consider how Europeans actually look like. By establishing the range of variation found in native Europeans, we can subsequently determine whether an individual belongs within that range of variation, and hence, whether the "look European" or not.

The relative value of the two approaches can be determined by their success in making correct inferences based on partial information. Those who followed the a priori approach -predictably- failed to correctly infer the person's ancestry. Those who tried to match the person's appearance with their knowledge of European variation made the correct inference.