PDA

View Full Version : Origins/Introducers of Sub-Racial Types to Great Britain?



Thruthheim
Thursday, March 2nd, 2006, 08:16 PM
Im interested in findng out what groups/tribes/conquerors introduced many of the sub racial types to Great Britain.

For example, im curious as to where the Skando Nordid/Gota typ came from, was it directly from the Vikings(Danes/Norsk) and other Scandinavian tribes such as the Jutes? Or, was it prevelant in Great Britain prior to the Germanic tribes coming to Britain?

Did the Troender variety prevelant in Scotland and N.England come largely from Norway?

Im Assuming the Anglo Saxon sub-type came from The actual Anglo Saxon tribes of North-West Germany and the Danish Border.

I myself, am classified as Skando Nordid/Gota typ, Would that have likely derived from the Scandinavian invasions and colonizing of the UK?

Were the people residing in GB prior to the Ancient Britons, were they of Nordic stock? And what do we know of these and their types?

Thruthheim
Saturday, March 4th, 2006, 10:55 PM
Still no response? :thumbdown

Theudiskaz
Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 03:37 AM
From what I have learned at the "Society for Nordish Physical Anthroplogy" website and through other readings this is how it goes:

1.) Skando-nordid/Goetatyp is the original indo-european nordic which came to Europe up the Danube and into Scandinavia around 3000 B.C. The bulk of Scandonordics in Britain came from both Anglo-Saxons and Vikings. The Jutes whcih were known to the anglo-saxons as "Geatas" came from southern Sweden, so they are probably responsible for alot of English Scando-nordids. Southern Sweden is where they are found in their highest concentration today. They were probably not in Britain in large numbers before the Germanic invaders came, but there were almost certainly some among the upper class of the native Britons, especially the Belgics who are thought to have been a Celtic/Germanic mix. It is estimated that Scandonordics are 8% of the population in England today and 5% in Scotland. So this may be evidence that Scandonordics were brought to Britain in Greater numbers by "Anglo-Saxons" than by Vikings whose settlement was far more thorough in Scotland than England.
2.) Yes, Troenders must have come largely from Norway. That is this type originates and Scotland and Northern England received relatively more Nowegians and Hiberno-Norwegian vikings than the rest of Britain.
3.) The A.S. type is pretty well limited to Friesland in the Netherlands, Schleswig Holstein in Germany, and East Anglia, the original homeland. If you look for pictures of Frisians on the Internet, a good start is "Omrop Fryslan" a Frisian language news and radio website, you will be pleased to find a good many people with very English features.
4.) Yes, but depending on where you live its always possible that some of your ancestors may have come over some time in the late middle ages, craftsmen from the netherlands, northern Germany etc.
5.) I haven't been able to find any detailed descriptions of the distribution of pre-germanic racial types in Britain. There were definitely a lot of Keltic Nordics, who are generally considered to be true Nordics like the Scando-Nordics, along with Atlanto-Meds (considered nordid or nordish but not true Nordics), of which there are many left in Wales, being the descendents of the Britons who were kicked out of what became England, by the English. Also Paleoatlantids and Brunns. I think that about sums it up.

Theudiskaz
Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 03:43 AM
typo correction: when I mentioned Friesland and Schleswig Holstein I ment that those are the original homeland of the anglo-saxon type. I then mistakenly added East Anglia afterword, which is obviously not the original homeland. But it is where they are found in their greatest numbers in England today.

Thruthheim
Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 06:30 AM
1.) Skando-nordid/Goetatyp is the original indo-european nordic which came to Europe up the Danube and into Scandinavia around 3000 B.C. The bulk of Scandonordics in Britain came from both Anglo-Saxons and Vikings. The Jutes whcih were known to the anglo-saxons as "Geatas" came from southern Sweden, so they are probably responsible for alot of English Scando-nordids.


Sounds most plausable.


It is estimated that Scandonordics are 8% of the population in England today and 5% in Scotland. So this may be evidence that Scandonordics were brought to Britain in Greater numbers by "Anglo-Saxons" than by Vikings whose settlement was far more thorough in Scotland than England.

Im not sure Viking settlement was more thorough In Scotland, remember the percent ratio cannot be compared simplistically, England's population is 50 million, Scotland's is 6 million. i would have thought that with the size of Danelaw and also the Norse whom arrived in Cumbria, England would clearly have the most. Danes being the predominant element also, whereas Norsk Vikings weren't Rare, they formed the predominant part of the Scottish Viking Settlement.



4.) Yes, but depending on where you live its always possible that some of your ancestors may have come over some time in the late middle ages, craftsmen from the netherlands, northern Germany etc.


Possible.. But unlikely ;) :) .. Also just as possible they came from Denmark, Norway or Sweden, if we are just speculating ;)

Theudiskaz
Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 04:26 PM
You could very well be right about the vikings having come in greater numbers to England than to Scotland. But it is my understanding that Scotland is more racially scandinavian than England (probably because their country is smaller), and in addition to this their their Scots language and in many places, such as the orkneys, and shetlands, their culture are FAR more norse derived than that of England. This would seem to indicate that regardless of whether or not MORE vikings settled in England than in Scotland, Scotland because of its smaller population, and land area, has been more norse blood per capita than England.

Assuming this is true and acknowledging that England's modern population roughly 8% scandonordic while Scotland's is 5% it stands to reason that Anglo-saxons brought most of the Scandordic D.N.A. to Britain. You see what I mean? So yes this type was most likely brought to Britian by Scandinavian invasions; those of the Angles and Geats! Historians are positive that the Angles came from Angeln Denmark. But cant seem to agree on whether "Geatas" mentioned by Bede are Jutes from Jutland, Denmark or Geats from southern Sweden. Ive heard both opinions, but either way, atleast two of the founding tribes of England are Scandinavian.

Theudiskaz
Sunday, March 5th, 2006, 06:03 PM
Just for the heck of it I have decided to post pictures of Frisians who I have deemed to be good examples of the Anglo-Saxon race.

Theudiskaz
Wednesday, March 8th, 2006, 06:06 AM
The Goeta type is named after Vaestergoetland, the western half of Goetland Sweden. The Anglo-Saxons called this Geatland, the land of the Geats. So I think the Geats, often called Jutes by modern scholars, are largely responsible for the presence of the goeta type/ Skando-nordic in Britain. Here are some excellent portraits and depictions of Goetas by the German WW2-era artist Wolfgang Willrich.

Thruthheim
Wednesday, March 8th, 2006, 06:01 PM
You could very well be right about the vikings having come in greater numbers to England than to Scotland. But it is my understanding that Scotland is more racially scandinavian than England (probably because their country is smaller), and in addition to this their their Scots language and in many places, such as the orkneys, and shetlands, their culture are FAR more norse derived than that of England. This would seem to indicate that regardless of whether or not MORE vikings settled in England than in Scotland, Scotland because of its smaller population, and land area, has been more norse blood per capita than England.

Assuming this is true and acknowledging that England's modern population roughly 8% scandonordic while Scotland's is 5% it stands to reason that Anglo-saxons brought most of the Scandordic D.N.A. to Britain. You see what I mean? So yes this type was most likely brought to Britian by Scandinavian invasions; those of the Angles and Geats! Historians are positive that the Angles came from Angeln Denmark. But cant seem to agree on whether "Geatas" mentioned by Bede are Jutes from Jutland, Denmark or Geats from southern Sweden. Ive heard both opinions, but either way, atleast two of the founding tribes of England are Scandinavian.

The Orkneys and Shetland's are tiny communities though I must add, and are not in any way reflective of Scotland.

Thruthheim
Wednesday, March 8th, 2006, 06:05 PM
These are exceptionally similiar to me :)

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=53659&d=1141797391

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=53663&d=1141797923[/URL]

http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=53661&d=1141797923

Good find :thumbup
[URL="http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=53659&d=1141797391"] (http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=53663&d=1141797923)