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Polak
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 07:03 AM
There's been a lot of talk here lately about Mongoloid features in Slavic, Germanic and Finnish populations.

But I have also observed such phenotypic characteristics amongst those of Keltic origin, both in the British Isles and the colonies.

Here's an example I found today. In fact, I'm not even sure this guy is a pseudo-Mongoloid, he might be a real Mongoloid. Classifications and comments most welcome...

cosmocreator
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 07:13 AM
You've mentioned before about the Caucasoid/Mongoloid split. I assume you're talking about when man was in the Homo erectus stage? Mongoloid and Sinanthropus have too many similarities for them not to be related.

Polak
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 07:28 AM
You've mentioned before about the Caucasoid/Mongoloid split. I assume you're talking about when man was in the Homo erectus stage? Mongoloid and Sinanthropus have too many similarities for them not to be related.


Well I don't believe that. I don't think modern humans formed from different species.

When I say the Caucasoid/Mongoloid split, I mean Homo Sapines splitting into the West Eurasian and East Eurasian sub-species.

cosmocreator
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 07:57 AM
Well I don't believe that. I don't think modern humans formed from different species.

When I say the Caucasoid/Mongoloid split, I mean Homo Sapines splitting into the West Eurasian and East Eurasian sub-species.


Then how do you explain the similarities between Sinanthropus and Mongoloids?

Polak
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 11:23 AM
Then how do you explain the similarities between Sinanthropus and Mongoloids?


Please outline the similarities.

Loki
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 11:27 AM
There's been a lot of talk here lately about Mongoloid features in Slavic, Germanic and Finnish populations.

But I have also observed such phenotypic characteristics amongst those of Keltic origin, both in the British Isles and the colonies.

Here's an example I found today. In fact, I'm not even sure this guy is a pseudo-Mongoloid, he might be a real Mongoloid. Classifications and comments most welcome...

Who is he, what is his name and where does he come from? Many people in British football teams are not British after all. Besides, it is debatable if he is Mongoloid after all.

Polak
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 11:33 AM
Who is he, what is his name and where does he come from? Many people in British football teams are not British after all. Besides, it is debatable if he is Mongoloid after all.


That's Finnan, Republic of Ireland international.

Loki
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 11:36 AM
That's Finnan, Republic of Ireland international.

I see. Personally, he doesn't strike me as being "Mongoloid". It may just be a combination of unattractive, peculiar features. Nobody's perfect, and there is a lot of variation within any given race and subrace.

Polak
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 11:51 AM
I see. Personally, he doesn't strike me as being "Mongoloid". It may just be a combination of unattractive, peculiar features. Nobody's perfect, and there is a lot of variation within any given race and subrace.


He does look Central Asian to me, and not only in that pic. But that's the whole point - we're all conditioned in different ways, so we'll have different ideas where to draw racial lines.

Loki
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 12:11 PM
But that's the whole point - we're all conditioned in different ways, so we'll have different ideas where to draw racial lines.

Indeed. For example, I might be more objective and accurate in describing a Polish indivual.

Polak
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 12:27 PM
Indeed. For example, I might be more objective and accurate in describing a Polish indivual.


Possibly, but I doubt it.

Then again, I'm not going to pretend I'm totally objective when looking at Polish individuals.

Loki
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 12:33 PM
Then again, I'm not going to pretend I'm totally objective when looking at Polish individuals.

Don't worry everybody is aware of that.

Regarding your "standards" in spotting "Mongoloidism" are not necessarily more accurate, if you spot more where there aren't any (not referring to this case specifically). It may just be that you are completely wrong in judgement.

Polak
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 12:57 PM
Don't worry everybody is aware of that.

Regarding your "standards" in spotting "Mongoloidism" are not necessarily more accurate, if you spot more where there aren't any (not referring to this case specifically). It may just be that you are completely wrong in judgement.


I'm sure my judgement can be improved when it comes to many things. But I don't think I'm alone in saying that.

Johnny Reb
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 06:04 PM
Hmm, I can't really say for sure about mongoloidism in that character. As much as I hate too, I must agree with Loki that he's just the victim of unfortunate circumstance. Perhaps you could post some other examples, Polak.

Scáthach
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 08:05 PM
Finnan looks fine to me - sure, our Stevo may not be the best looking man on the team but he looks to be perfectly free of any Asian blood to me. He's very pouty though ;)
Oh and he's Irish not British.

cosmocreator
Monday, October 6th, 2003, 08:07 PM
Please outline the similarities.

A quote from Coon:

"Were one to enlarge the Sinanthropus brain by 300cc, reduce the brow ridge, shorten the palate and reef the zygomatic arches [cheek bones] by about 15mm" it would look like a modern Mongoloid.

In addition:

Both have multiple mental foramina, shoveling of the teeth, plus 15 other features which I didn't state in this post:

http://www.forums.skadi.net/showpost.php?p=38054&postcount=3

I you insist, I'll go look up all of them in the book.

Polak
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 02:49 AM
A quote from Coon:

"Were one to enlarge the Sinanthropus brain by 300cc, reduce the brow ridge, shorten the palate and reef the zygomatic arches [cheek bones] by about 15mm" it would look like a modern Mongoloid.

In addition:

Both have multiple mental foramina, shoveling of the teeth, plus 15 other features which I didn't state in this post:

http://www.forums.skadi.net/showpost.php?p=38054&postcount=3

I you insist, I'll go look up all of them in the book.


Like I said, I don't rate Coon when it comes to theories.

Do you have any other, more recent sources, for these claims?

cosmocreator
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 03:59 AM
Like I said, I don't rate Coon when it comes to theories.

Do you have any other, more recent sources, for these claims?


No, but how do you refute these physical observations? This is not speculation but observation.

Polak
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 04:31 AM
No, but how do you refute these physical observations? This is not speculation but observation.


I would say it was parallel evolution, since both groups lived in Asia.

There's no way I will accept the findings of a 40 year old book considering what we've learned about evolution, genetics and archeology just in the last few years.

If the evidence is indeed so hard, then I would assume at least several bright anthroplogists to be continuing on the same course today. But I haven't seen that.

In fact, I haven't even see renegade scientists arguing with the mainstream scientific community that Coon was the man.

Even back in the 1960s, there was plenty of head shaking at Coon's work.

Dobzhansky, T. (1963). "Possibility that Homo sapiens evolved independently 5 times is vanishingly small." Currrent Anthropology 4(4): 360,364-367.

cosmocreator
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 04:40 AM
I would say it was parallel evolution, since both groups lived in Asia.


So it would be parallel evolution for Pithecanthropus evolving towards Australoids as well?

Stríbog
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 04:51 AM
The separate races are not separate species by the biological definition, since they are able to interbreed completely and hybrids disply no loss in fertility or survival rates. I think the evidence following mutation markers suggests that Mongoloids split from Caucasoids much later than 400,000 years ago.

Speaking of pseudo-Mongoloids, my Irish/French friend was presumed to be half-Chinese by my Chinese friend's mother, because he has very dark hair and narrow dark eyes. :D

Polak
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 04:54 AM
So it would be parallel evolution for Pithecanthropus evolving towards Australoids as well?


Perhaps it would be.

Don't forget it's not all that hard to link data to a particular theory, and make it look convincing. But then someone else will come along and do even better job, and a new theory will be born.

The truth can't be hidden. If Coon's theories were spot on, there has to be at least some evidence of that in the latest genetic and archeological finds.

Where is it?

cosmocreator
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 04:55 AM
The separate races are not separate species by the biological definition, since they are able to interbreed completely and hybrids disply no loss in fertility or survival rates. I think the evidence following mutation markers suggests that Mongoloids split from Caucasoids much later than 400,000 years ago.


Perhaps the definition should be put into question. I don't know much about it but others at SF have posted on supposedly different species being able to produce fertile offspring. I don't remember what they were. Plus, as I understand it, certain breeds of dogs can not interbreed.

cosmocreator
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 04:58 AM
Perhaps it would be.

Don't forget it's not all that hard to link data to a particular theory, and make it look convincing. But then someone else will come along and do even better job, and a new theory will be born.

The truth can't be hidden. If Coon's theories were spot on, there has to be at least some evidence of that in the latest genetic and archeological finds.

Where is it?


Not necessarily. What exactly are you to look for? Chimps are so similar to us. I'm not the one to really put up a convincing argument because my knowledge is limited.

Polak
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 05:07 AM
Not necessarily. What exactly are you to look for? Chimps are so similar to us. I'm not the one to really put up a convincing argument because my knowledge is limited.


Well, some species can interbreed. But if their offsrping are fertile, then that means they weren't seperate species to begin with. I think wolves and dogs were regarded as seperate species for a long time, and now they're not.

In regards to the convinciong arguments, I'm in the same boat. It's hard for me to refute Coon, because I'm no expert when it comes to human evolution.

So what we should do is rely on the experts to give us the ammuntion we need for these dabates. What I'm saying is that I don't know of any current anthropologist who would agree with Coon. And that seems to be a bit of a hint for me that things have moved on.

Evolved
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 06:48 AM
I wonder if anyone can point out a single mongoloid trait on this guy.

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/179106.jpg
http://www.columbussymphony.com/soloists/ma.jpg

Wow, look - they're twins! :eyes

Really, we're going a bit mongoloid crazy around here. Everytime there's a nose not high bridged enough, visible cheekbones or a little bit of roundness to someone's face people are jumping on the mongoloid bandwagon.

He looks like a regular Fälish guy, he reminds me of Matt Damon.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38080000/jpg/_38080845_finnan150.jpg
http://62.232.35.140/files_footballworldcup/FINNAN_Steve_20020616_GH_L.jpg
http://uk.geocities.com/shirtlessfootball/players/finnan.html

Some Irish people have oblique eyes (but not with an epicanthus) and high/prominent cheekbones. Would you say Jim Corr or Billy Corgan look pseudo-mongoloid?

http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/jimcorr/pics.html
http://www.angelfire.com/bc/billycorgan17ia/sdtn.html

How about this Irish guy?:
http://www.legioneuropa.org/Racediv/CSCoon/Images/p9f6.gif

Polak
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 06:54 AM
I wonder if anyone can point out a single mongoloid trait on this guy.

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/fifa/gen/tr/pl/s/179106.jpg
http://www.columbussymphony.com/soloists/ma.jpg

Wow, look - they're twins! :eyes

Really, we're going a bit mongoloid crazy around here. Everytime there's a nose not high bridged enough, visible cheekbones or a little bit of roundness to someone's face people are jumping on the mongoloid bandwagon.

He looks like a regular Fälish guy, he reminds me of Matt Damon.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38080000/jpg/_38080845_finnan150.jpg
http://62.232.35.140/files_footballworldcup/FINNAN_Steve_20020616_GH_L.jpg
http://uk.geocities.com/shirtlessfootball/players/finnan.html

Some Irish people have oblique eyes (but not with an epicanthus) and high/prominent cheekbones. Would you say Jim Corr or Billy Corgan look pseudo-mongoloid?

http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/jimcorr/pics.html
http://www.angelfire.com/bc/billycorgan17ia/sdtn.html

How about this Irish guy?:
http://www.legioneuropa.org/Racediv/CSCoon/Images/p9f6.gif


Yeah, you're right. I just saw that one pic of him and thought he looked a bit eastern.

But he doesn't in that other pic.

On the other hand, that pic you posted is an excellent example of what I was saying.

Nordhammer
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 07:00 AM
Wow, look - they're twins! :eyes

Really, we're going a bit mongoloid crazy around here. Everytime there's a nose not high bridged enough, visible cheekbones or a little bit of roundness to someone's face people are jumping on the mongoloid bandwagon.

He looks like a regular Fälish guy, he reminds me of Matt Damon.


It's these pro-Slavs with their sensitivities. :)

I don't see what the point is in finding weird-looking individuals?

As LG said, this guy doesn't look strange for a UP type.

Dr. Solar Wolff
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 07:30 AM
To answer the question of similarities between Sinanthropus and the Mongoloids, they mostly have to do with the teeth which, it is said, are controlled by relatively few genes: Shoveling of incisors, wrinkling, enamel pearls are some right off the top of my head. All these things were found in Sinanthropus and are all found, in greatest instance, in the Mongoloids. Cosmocreator may be able to supply more.

I have never heard any evidence that any sizeable influx of Mongoloids ever entered Ireland. Some UP peoples were darker than others and Irish people in the USA are always accusing each other of being "Black Irish", (usually all in fun) but there is no doubt that some Irish have dark hair.

A guy who went to my high school was from Ireland. He was a classic Keltic Nordic type but he seemed to have a Nordic eyefold and had darker than normal (normal as compared to the rest of us) skin. So some might say he looked Mongoloid. I would never say that to him. He was the toughest guy in school. In fact, he was the toughest guy who ever walked the face of the earth to my knowledge. Even at 170 pounds, this guy played profession football (American football) running back kicks. He fought with guys weighing almost 300 lbs for any reason, at any time, just for the hell of it. He was known in the NFL as "Doctor Death".

Polak
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 07:34 AM
Not sure if anyone here is aware of this, but pseudo means not real.

Thus, in this case, pseudo-Mongoloid means not real Mongoloid, fake Mongoloid, or superficially Mongoloid, or not really related to Mongoloids but perhaps looks like it.

Evolved
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 08:20 AM
Not sure if anyone here is aware of this, but pseudo means not real.

:huh really...?


Thus, in this case, pseudo-Mongoloid means not real Mongoloid, fake Mongoloid, or superficially Mongoloid, or not really related to Mongoloids but perhaps looks like it.

Now I'm just confused. Stop using these fancy science words, they confuse our small minds.

:P Seriously, why even attach the word "pseudomongol" at all to people in the British Isles? None of the people pointed out in this thread look like mongols at all, they just don't look Nordic. It's really nonsensical to use Nordics as the standard by which all Europeans are judged since, like it or not, the majority of Europeans are not Nordic. It makes more sense to judge people's distances from Alpine-Nordish-Med mixed types which make up the majority. :)

Loki
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 10:26 AM
Not sure if anyone here is aware of this, but pseudo means not real.

Thus, in this case, pseudo-Mongoloid means not real Mongoloid, fake Mongoloid, or superficially Mongoloid, or not really related to Mongoloids but perhaps looks like it.

Thusfar, you are the only one who thinks he even looks Mongoloid. Does that say anything to you already?

Polak
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 10:33 AM
Thusfar, you are the only one who thinks he even looks Mongoloid. Does that say anything to you already?


To me, he looks Mongoloid in the first pic, and UP in the second. But I've already said that.

The b&w pic of the other Irishman is a much better example of what I was trying to show.

No need to beat a dead horse...

Polak
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 10:35 AM
Ladygoeth,


LOL

Loki
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 10:38 AM
Nice avatar & concept, ladygoeth ;)

Nordhammer
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 06:02 PM
Yeah, I like that last thought by Baker. Even wild animals breed better than we do.

Scáthach
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 07:29 PM
He does look Central Asian to me, and not only in that pic. .

That's a very contradictory statement especially since you now say he only looked ''pseudo mongoloid'' to you in ONE picture. hmm, poor ickle Finnan, if he only knew this conversation was going on :-O :~(

Vojvoda
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 07:42 PM
That's a very contradictory statement especially since you now say he only looked ''pseudo mongoloid'' to you in ONE picture. hmm, poor ickle Finnan, if he only knew this conversation was going on :-O :~(

Maybe ickle(?) Finnan is a Tydal? :P

cosmocreator
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 07:49 PM
To answer the question of similarities between Sinanthropus and the Mongoloids, they mostly have to do with the teeth which, it is said, are controlled by relatively few genes: Shoveling of incisors, wrinkling, enamel pearls are some right off the top of my head. All these things were found in Sinanthropus and are all found, in greatest instance, in the Mongoloids. Cosmocreator may be able to supply more.


I certainly can. Similarities between Mongoloids and Sinathropus:

1. A sagitall keeling of the skull vault, found among Eskimos and North Chinese. Pithecanthropus also had this, as do modern Australians and Tasmanians.

2. Inca bones, found in three or four of five skulls. These are found in 15% of the Amercian Indians and are more frequent among Mongoloids than in other races.

3. Broad nasal bone that show little or no difference between upper and middle breadths.

4. A gently rounded contour of the nasal saddle.

5. The profile angle of the roof of the nasal passages equals 89 degrees, a little higher than in Mongoloids, who have the highest such angle of living men.

6. The outer border of the orbit is set forward as in Australopithecenes, gorillas, and orangs, and the forward part of the temporal muscle is extended anteriorly above the edge of the brow ridge, compressing the lateral half of the orbit.

7. The infraorbital margin is rounded and even with the floor of the orbit, as in modern Mongols.

8. Buccal exostoses (bony growth) of the mandible are found in all three upper jaws of Sinathropus; these growths are found in from two to five per cent of the Aleuts, the Japanese, the Lapps, and the natives of Siberians.

9. Exotoses of the internal auditory meatus (tube of the ear hole).

10. A general thickening of the tympanic plate. This and the preceeding are found chiefly among Eskimos, American Indians, and Icelanders.

11. The "infantile gap" in the tympanic bone.

12. A special external growth on the border of the tympanic plate, found in Sinanthropus Skull X and in no other fossil hominid; it occurs in 18 to 20% of the Polynesians, 12 to 30 % of American Indians, and only rarely in Caucasoids.

13. The mandibular torus.

14. Shovel incisors.

15. Extreme flattening of the femur, accompanied by a flat linea aspera and a distal position of the shft curve.

16. A strongly developed deltoid tuberosity of the humerous.

17. A small wrist bone.

nemo
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 08:58 PM
Many of you Nordics show racial mixture but you just deny it by saying no that person is just ugly or that persons mongrel look is not really mongrel.

The fact of the matter is that Northern Europe suffered thru many periods of racial mixing, the Huns,sami, lapps, the black American sodiers of ww2 and ww1 and French morrocan soldiers, their was plenty of mixing in the north from these black American GI and their offspring are a good part of the northern population today.

So stop believing all these nordcist lies about how pure you are, because you are not and many of you look it.

The photo of that soccor player definitely looks mongrel looking.

Scáthach
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 09:11 PM
Still can't see anything wrong with Finnan.
Now, this man, Jason Sherlock....nothing ''pseudo'' about this mongoloid

cosmocreator
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 09:25 PM
Interesting posts:

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showpost.php?p=639417&postcount=40
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showpost.php?p=641195&postcount=43

I've invited him here.

Tore
Tuesday, October 7th, 2003, 11:35 PM
Many of you Nordics show racial mixture but you just deny it by saying no that person is just ugly or that persons mongrel look is not really mongrel.

The fact of the matter is that Northern Europe suffered thru many periods of racial mixing, the Huns,sami, lapps, the black American sodiers of ww2 and ww1 and French morrocan soldiers, their was plenty of mixing in the north from these black American GI and their offspring are a good part of the northern population today.

So stop believing all these nordcist lies about how pure you are, because you are not and many of you look it.

The photo of that soccor player definitely looks mongrel looking.

Welcome back Bulldog!:)

How nice of you to add your $.02, although perhaps next time you choose to do so, would you be so courteous to present it in a more relevant and objective manner?

We would all be very appreciative. :)

Trønder

Stríbog
Sunday, October 12th, 2003, 09:25 AM
I can't believe I didn't think of this before; Jimmy Page is the PERFECT example of British Isles pseudo-Mongoloid features.

http://www.jimmypageonline.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://jimmypageonline.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/jimmypage3.jpg&target=tlx_new
http://www.jimmypageonline.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://jimmypageonline.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/jimmypage3.jpg&target=tlx_new

http://www.fannins-collectables.com/images/p_listing/page_and_plant/page+plant1.jpg
http://www.fannins-collectables.com/images/p_listing/page_and_plant/page+plant1.jpg

http://central.dot.net.au/~dbova/jp%20clos.jpg
http://central.dot.net.au/~dbova/jp%20clos.jpg

Loki
Sunday, October 12th, 2003, 11:02 AM
I can't believe I didn't think of this before; Jimmy Page is the PERFECT example of British Isles pseudo-Mongoloid features.


Are you being serious?

Frans_Jozef
Sunday, October 12th, 2003, 02:08 PM
the incipient mongoloid or alpinoid appearance of
this woman's features could be adressed as infantile, slightly cretine alpinoid or regarded as incipient mongoloid, especially pronunciated in the round
face, slanting eyes and concavity of the nose;
I think its survival is extremely peripheric in
the present-day Britons.
Even a term as "incipient mongolism" should cast some doubt on its validity, we should ascertain its provenence, racial or by some hormonal-environmental response affecting the body consitution intra-racially.
I hope Volksdeutsche is able to elucidate this tacky problem.

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_683602.html?menu=

Check this out in comparison:

http://www.tmaw.co.uk/davidj.htm

Nordhammer
Sunday, October 12th, 2003, 05:41 PM
Are you being serious?

He'll probably say your profile picture is a good example next. :)

Stríbog
Sunday, October 12th, 2003, 06:19 PM
He'll probably say your profile picture is a good example next. :)

What is so ridiculous about what I said? Are you guys really THAT biased in favor of NW Europeans? :) When I first saw Jimmy Page's picture, I was sure he had Native American blood. How am *I* the one who is so out of line? It really seems like you guys are in denial and can't take it...

Nordhammer
Sunday, October 12th, 2003, 06:27 PM
Are you guys really THAT biased in favor of NW Europeans? :)

I am. :)

Stríbog
Sunday, October 12th, 2003, 06:35 PM
I am. :)

At least you admit your irrational and abnormal fixation. :D
Tell me again how Wales and Ireland and Devon and Cornwall are Nordish while northern Spain is not? :) Or how Atlantids and neo-Danubians are equally Nordish? :lmao

Nordhammer
Sunday, October 12th, 2003, 06:39 PM
At least you admit your irrational and abnormal fixation. :D
Tell me again how Wales and Ireland and Devon and Cornwall are Nordish while northern Spain is not? :) Or how Atlantids and neo-Danubians are equally Nordish? :lmao

It's not my concern. Just everyone stay with their own people and problem solved. :)

Stríbog
Sunday, October 12th, 2003, 06:52 PM
It's not my concern. Just everyone stay with their own people and problem solved. :)

You consider Catherine Zeta-Jones and Sean Connery to be the same "people" as Sting and Emma Thompson just because they come from the same island? They don't look too similar to me :)

Nordhammer
Sunday, October 12th, 2003, 06:57 PM
your irrational and abnormal fixation.

Are your projecting? :)

Nordhammer
Sunday, October 12th, 2003, 07:03 PM
You consider Catherine Zeta-Jones and Sean Connery to be the same "people" as Sting and Emma Thompson just because they come from the same island? They don't look too similar to me :)

Well, as a courtesy and to be more accurate we should try to get pictures of people when they're in their prime, not when they're old and their skin is sagging. :)

I don't know why you're arguing this with me or isolating anomalies? I don't think every single person who resides in the northwest is Nordish, duh.

I think CZJ is peculiar, and I have a hard time calling her Nordish, but the funny thing is, her parents don't look like her.